Guild Wars 2

mazut.4296:

Whats the problem? That’s just another item in your inventory, that stacks!

Please read the entire thread… Thanks, we explained the problem quite well I would think.

tairneanach.8427:

Sorry to go off topic, but have your family members tried waypointing without money while defeated? According to the wiki’s discussion page, it doesn’t cost money if you don’t have any (and presumably it doesn’t cost the full amount if you don’t have enough). It’d be supremely stupid of ANet to not allow people to get up without help after being defeated.

It’s also worth noting that doing any three dailies will net you 2 gold so even if my information is wrong, there’s an opportunity to have enough money to at least get up again. Today, that’s pocket change. She regularly has several tens of thousands of gold on her, and she’s one of the poorer players because she spends it all on mounts and free play time. I’m not sure whether Blizzard have upped the flow of gold for newer players to compensate, but it’s still daunting for a new player to enter a world with nothing and note that everything is way too expensive to buy, from vendor stuff to, especially, everything in the auction house. It’d be great if that process could be slowed down as much as possible for Guild Wars 2, and this is one way to do it.

I do the dailies all of the time, my kids not so much. The dailies require a certain amount of map completion. If you don’t have Kryta for instance because you started in the Norn area and it’s not been unlocked yet then you have to go through Lion’s arch and walk into the main city and find your way to the exit. All of that might be fun for some people (like me) but to teenagers who have been playing different RPG’s it’s not nearly as much fun. They did the personal stories to a degree but then started getting frustrated that all of the things that they wanted cost more than they had and could reasonably get in a few months of play. I’m a patient person, my teenagers not so much. I have zero idea if it costs money to come back if you die, I know that getting rez’d is what most people expect and I never really checked it. As, I’m their mom and I just handled the situation by either tping to them and rezzing them myself OR just sending them cash when they were low. I will probably now have to go and check it. The problem is that if you have some silver and some copper but not really any gold and you’re level 80 because you boosted your toon to level 80, you’re NOT going to have the gear/money/inclination when you find out that everything that you want to do in the game is more than what you can reasonably expect to make in an hour of game play. If you get 2 gold “yay” but if you don’t realize that you’re going to have a slow gold flow for quite a while and you spend it all on “cool dyes” or on buying things in the TP, then you’re going to be in for a major shock. Especially when you’re coming from other RPG’s where gold sort of drops like candy and you are only going after rare drops (rarely if ever spending said gold). In this situation, you have different expectations. Not everyone wants to play 8 hours in a zone to get gold and whether you like it or not, doing the dailies requires at least some map completion. You have to know where to go and where something is to complete them.. I didn’t start doing dailies until I had map completion because then it was easy.. For those who do not have map completion if they are missing a map for a daily their choices are run through all these other areas to get to the location of the daily OR just don’t do the daily. The majority of the people do not want to spend all that time running to figure out where the heck a daily is and would rather just not do it.

That is the situation I’m dealing with. They do not want to grind (complete the hearts, find all of the way points etc). They wanted to do the things that were related to the story and explore. They didn’t want to do things they felt were tedious. When it got to the point that the only way to make money in the game was to do the tedious stuff (they don’t like PvP either) they went back to other RPG games.

As to the comment you made about WoW, I agree that it can be a problem but the majority of new players are coming from those style games. They have zero idea that the gold they start with is going to be hard to get for quite a while afterwards. I’m not really a big spender, my kids on the other hand were different. They also didn’t sit around killing monsters all of the time, nor did they spend time doing the gathering because when they ran out of gathering tools they didn’t have enough to buy more (higher end areas require different gathering tools then lower end ones and when you don’t have the unbreakable tools it gets expensive). The same thing with breaking things down into mats… Most people who have been playing don’t think about how much it costs to buy each of those things and newer players aren’t made aware of the fact that gold is harder to come by in GW2.

As I said, these are things that probably should be explained and if I could write a handy “Here’s what you need to know about Guild Wars 2” intro guide I would make certain to put those in there. Right now I have the most gold in my family (I also play the most and do the dailies everyday that I’m on.) the rest tried to rush for things and found it frustrating. My middle son is now playing on a completely different MMO because the gold flow is easier and the events drop rare items (such as rare mounts and he’s so excited about mounts that I’m worried that if this fails I’ll have wasted all the money).

My point is there are a LOT of things that are different about Guild Wars II that the average person coming from a different MMO or RPG is not going to know going in and it puts them at a major disadvantage.

This is something that should be addressed but the way to address it should NOT be a pointless redoable heart AND identifying gear.

Pifil.5193:

Ferelwing.8463:

kurfu.5623:

Ferelwing.8463:

kurfu.5623:

Ferelwing.8463:

…
I’t too late for me I pre-purchased before the demo
…

You can issue a ticket for a refund; I did, and got my money back.

Speak with your wallet.

I want to give them the benefit of the doubt and see if this is the actual direction they go… Would I still be able to get a refund if they implement this and I don’t want to play it?

If you are unsure how you feel about the direction, get your refund now. You can always buy it again later if you change your mind. Speak with your wallet.

Make sure you go through the support page, do not issue a charge-back with your credit card.

I need to think about it a bit… I’m still sort of waiting for them to update us on whether or not this will be added or if they are going to listen….

We very rarely get any kind of communication about anything like this so I think you’ll find that out sometime on the 22nd of September.

I was afraid you’d say something like that… Would you still be able to get a refund if you didn’t like that content or are you stuck with it by then?

I love this idea!

Hupsel.1920:

Heyas!

Bosses I found to be hard for solo:

. Caudecuous (probably spelling his name wrong, sorry!)
. The two dogs on the last mission of episode 5 of LWS3
. Mordremonth, of course

Also I play as thief

I found that watching some of the play-throughs helped me figure out positioning in those fights. I agree though Caudecus was a pain (took me several times to finish it). For me the problem was in getting passed the Jade Armor, I needed the walk-through to figure out the Path of Whispers version so I could avoid fighting them (I can’t solo them).

The Hounds were a bit tough too but once you got used to where you needed to be you could solve it (playthrough helped me with positioning and that made the difference).

kurfu.5623:

Ferelwing.8463:

kurfu.5623:

Ferelwing.8463:

…
I’t too late for me I pre-purchased before the demo
…

You can issue a ticket for a refund; I did, and got my money back.

Speak with your wallet.

I want to give them the benefit of the doubt and see if this is the actual direction they go… Would I still be able to get a refund if they implement this and I don’t want to play it?

If you are unsure how you feel about the direction, get your refund now. You can always buy it again later if you change your mind. Speak with your wallet.

Make sure you go through the support page, do not issue a charge-back with your credit card.

I need to think about it a bit… I’m still sort of waiting for them to update us on whether or not this will be added or if they are going to listen….

kurfu.5623:

Ferelwing.8463:

…
I’t too late for me I pre-purchased before the demo
…

You can issue a ticket for a refund; I did, and got my money back.

Speak with your wallet.

I want to give them the benefit of the doubt and see if this is the actual direction they go… Would I still be able to get a refund if they implement this and I don’t want to play it?

maddoctor.2738:

Ferelwing.8463:

Ahh there’s the assumption I don’t do the dailies in fractals when I go to a fractal it’s because I’m trying to learn the mechanics of the fractal not because I am doing the daily. (Mind you as I said I two man then and I don’t join groups because the LFG tool could use a nice tweak to give people warnings).

If you want to train/learn the mechanics then you join a group that explicitly states it’s a training group. That’s your LFG “warning”. What you are doing is the best way to go about it when training groups do not exist (you can search for them btw), join in a static group with friends and guild members to learn the content.

What I always believed about the LFG is that if you join a group of random strangers who want to finish a particular piece of content, don’t expect them to teach you that piece of content. It should come as no surprise that prior knowledge of that content is required, unless explicitly stating otherwise. No random stranger should be forced to teach others how to play, that’s what your guild members and friends are for. Therefore no extra warning is needed

The assumption being that every single player joins a guild and every single player knows this going in. If the game itself warned people that this was an expectation and set that expectation then people would know this going into it (ie some content needs guilds/friends) not some content requires random people who don’t want to play with you because you’re new. I don’t like playing with random people (it’s an introvert thing) I will do it sometimes but most of the time I do things by myself because getting my family to play is a pain. Assuming that every single person who plays GW2 has friends who play the game and a guild ignores the people who started playing because they wanted to play the content etc…

I understand where you’re coming from but pretending new players don’t exist and then getting mad that they do is what I object to.

Yes I agree- there’s a way to help people learn but I’m not obligated to teach every new/bad player I come across what’s what.
I’m a players myself, that seeks to enjoy the game the way I feel is right for me.
Experienced/good players are not this game’s tutorial system. I’m not under some binding oath to help all newbies. People on these forums always ask “elitists” to teach and help new players – to me there’s no fun or reward in that.

• And that’s your choice, I can completely understand that. Since you put that information up front that is fair. I can agree that is a fair thing. It would be nice if you wanted to help teach etc but you’re under no obligation to do so. Since you put your information directly up front then that’s a fair thing to assume that you get the type of players that you were looking for.

They can teach themselves if they really want to. Nobody taught me. There are videos, written guides, build calculators – you name it.

When I make my LFGs I state my requirements clearly. When people don’t meet them I kick them. To me it’s not an issue.

• And if you point out that your LFG was pretty clear on the type of player that you were looking for that is a fair thing to state. I was speaking more to the people who do NOT put those into their requirements and then kick people for not meeting requirements that were not spelled out in the beginning.

And I’m not a therapist or a go-to “feel better” NPC that has to help you through content because life is stressful. You’re playing for fun in a way that you find fun. I’m playing for fun too in a way that I find fun. If your presence disrupts my fun then I’m sorry – I’m not going to keep you around just because “you might have had a bad day”. We’re both humans, we both have our issues and are both responsible four our lives and our fun.
If your fun ruins my fun then you’re getting kicked. That’s what I’m trying to say. You’re in no way shape or form more entitled to have fun with your GW2 than I am.

Somehow this makes me the bad guy.

• What makes someone the bad guy is when they do it in an insulting manner.

If you kick someone after they failed to meet the requirements set up in the LFG by saying “Sorry -pre-req’s not met” that’s one thing, if you kick them based on requirements that were not spelled out and saying “Not enough DPS” or “we don’t want bad players” that’s completely different. While some people will get mad regardless, and I acknowledge that there’s no need to be intentionally rude, nasty or insulting when rejecting someone from a group. That kind of thing is what I object to and I failed to read the entire post (I’m sorry about that) before responding. I reacted specifically to the animism that I felt was being directed at new players for being new.

maddoctor.2738:

Ferelwing.8463:

It’s a game not a job… Some of us like to take our time, if you’re not one of them please put it out there up front so we all don’t waste each others time.

When you see a group that says the simple: “T4 dailies” what do you expect?
A group that will teach you the details and mechanics of each encounter, or a group that is already experienced with it and wants to finish the daily quickly?

Ahh there’s the assumption I don’t do the dailies in fractals when I go to a fractal it’s because I’m trying to learn the mechanics of the fractal not because I am doing the daily. (Mind you as I said I two man then and I don’t join groups because the LFG tool could use a nice tweak to give people warnings).

My point is that not everyone knows that the “dailies” are meant to be speed run. I’ve played enough MMO’s to assume it but not everyone else does. Yes, sometimes it’s better to err on the side of “too much information” vs the “assumption” that everyone knows what you’re talking about.

maddoctor.2738:

Ferelwing.8463:

And here is the reason I do not join PUG’s, don’t play games with random players and have zero interest in joining those who do. I play for fun not to have to meet certain specs/quota’s etc while that might be fun for you… Absolutely the reason I avoid other MMO’s.

And that’s the best thing to do. The problem is when people that think like you try to join other groups that do not. That’s the main issue here, there are two kinds of players that can’t play well with each other, and one of the groups imposes their idea on the other. That’s not a fault of the meter though

Having an up front way to say “Not my thing” is the better choice. If someone wants to speed run through the content more power to them, if I want to spend time trying to learn the mechanics of it or trying other things to see if I like that better, that’s my choice. There should be room for both play styles and there should be a way to say up front what play style is being worked. I generally two man fractals right now rather than risk having other people I don’t know who will start trying to scream at me to do it their way. It doesn’t always work (sometimes we outright die) but at the same time I’d rather that then have someone insist that my style of play is somehow inferior to their style. I like learning things on my own through trial and error and I respect that’s not for everyone but it is my way of playing.

Dextra.8162:

Miku.6297:

Dextra.8162:

Or say:

Casual T4’s, 2hr run YAY.

The attitude here is what people don’t like.

And the other half of us don’t like the attitudes of those thinking they are entitled to get rewarded for selfish play and behavior.

It’s a game not a job… Some of us like to take our time, if you’re not one of them please put it out there up front so we all don’t waste each others time.

Harper.4173:

TheGrimm.5624:

*Tools that empower players to be kitten to others to me are a bad idea. The fact that this thread was started already proves this was an issue. *

Nobody needs a tool for that. If I want to be a kitten I can do it without any dps meter.
If I want to kick I can kick based on anything I want – LI, AP, “you went down too much”, etc.

If you think the addition of a dps meter changes anything – you’re just wrong.
Bad players get kicked. It’s been like this since 2012.

…. And this is exactly why so many people HATE playing with people with that mentality. People wonder why I don’t PUG or bother with LFG, your attitude is precisely why. I don’t pretend to know everything but there’s a way to help people learn and then there’s being insulting. If the goal is speed then say so in the LFG tool, if the goal is only to have experienced players then say so… So other people can know precisely to avoid you.

I personally find the entire attitude insulting and rude but hey, that’s probably because I know there is an actual human on the other end who may not be having a good day or perhaps has other things going on at the time and doesn’t deserve to be insulted and attacked while they’re playing a GAME for fun.

Harper.4173:

Miku.6297:

Dextra.8162:

So I should just let a longbow “dps” druid/ranger in the party who offers 0 dps and gets carried for basically free loot while everyone else picks up the slack?

I see this THE MOST and I will usually leave the party. It’s a gigantic waste of time. T4 fracs should not take more than 20 mins. Adjust, stop being lazy, or get kicked. You can argue that that is rude, but honestly people coming in with their snowflake builds contributing nothing and getting carried is the problem and rude in itself.

If the ranger is attacking how is it doing 0 dps? While I agree people looking to be carried isn’t the most enjoyable thing. How ever assuming everyone in a different build from what you consider ideal preforms poorly is rude. It’s about how you present your arguement, removing someone who is just wanting a free ride is one thing, acting like a jerk is another. (refering to the tone of the post with the negative comments and mass exaggeration)

He’s doing some dps but he’s basically just wasting people’s time.
Optimal builds are a courtesy – to the people you play with. If you’re not bothering to play the build the content requires I don’t see why people who enjoy that content should bother taking you along.

Mindset should be: “I want to play X content. What gear do I need? What build do I need? How can I do it well”.
People with that mindset don’t have issues with groups.
People that just join and expect things to go well for them at the expense of others are the bane of MMOs and should be kicked on sight.

And here is the reason I do not join PUG’s, don’t play games with random players and have zero interest in joining those who do. I play for fun not to have to meet certain specs/quota’s etc while that might be fun for you… Absolutely the reason I avoid other MMO’s.

Harper.4173:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

My biggest concern with DPS meters is that I’ll end up marked for my mistakes.

DPS meters are not tools to reward good performance. They only exist to punish bad performance. The issue is, bad days happen. Sometimes I can’t get my skills off, and my performance will sink because of reasons both within and out of my control. On good days, I am not going to be rewarded for doing everything right. I am expected to do everything right as the norm. But on a bad day? I’ll be facing the threat of being kicked + blocked. That connection is severed forever because of bad luck. This is what is meant by DPS meters making a toxic environment: you are never rewarded, only punished. This kind of environment is why companies create automatic reward programs for their low end workers; to counteract the issue where only failures are noticeable.

The thing about self improvement is that you really don’t need a DPS meter for it. Common sense applied to your skills and traits is enough to produce a working damage rotation, and competent play is enough to ensure success. I’ve tried out my own rotations on the DPS golem and seen what works, and when in combat I can usually tell whether I’m doing good damage or not just by evaluating my own performance. If I continually blast my enemies with all my high damage skills then I’m doing good DPS, and if I can’t then I’m not.

You’re looking at it oddly.
When you do well you’re rewarded with being accepted into a group that does well. That’s the reward.
When you do poorly you’re rejected and kicked – that’s the punishment.
There is both reward and punishment.

Do well – reward. Do bad – punishment.
I know you would prefer (like anyone else) to be accepted into a group that does well even if you do poorly – but that’s not really fair to them is it?

If you want to play with people that do well – you should be like them and do well yourself. It’s only fair to them that they gain as much from you as you gain from them when you play together.
I understand your fear – it’s normal. I have nothing against being kicked if I’m performing poorly. Why should you or anyone else?

So join groups that are like minded and don’t insist everyone else play like you or put a warning in the title so people can choose to avoid you and your group because the dps meter is unfun.

BurningHeavy.7268:

Randulf.7614:

Ultimately it is these things that prevent a bigger influx of players joining these higher end instances than there could be and leads to them stagnating due to low population.

Sadly it wont change, the only answer is to join a like minded guild or to encourage as many people to start their own groups and ensure those groups dont use these ridiculous meters and build checkers.

or, and I know this is a crazy idea, but you COULD get good and do adequate dps. the build I use can pump out over 10k dps by pushing one with scepter, letting the auto attack take over and doing NOTHING else but do mechanics. That’s IT! Better yourself, don’t complain and insist on being bad.

If I wanted a WoW mentality I’d play WoW… If you like raiding for raids sake that’s fine, but to insist that everyone play the way you like to play is unreasonable. Find like-minded players to play the way you like playing = fine. Telling everyone else that they have to play the way you do = not fine. It’s really that simple.

Pifil.5193:

Djinn.9245:

Daddicus.6128:

JustTrogdor.7892:

There are a lot of good arguments for and against.

I’m still waiting to hear the first “good argument” for this.

The only arguments that some might call “good” for this are actually arguments for saving bag space. This specific system is not necessary to save bag space so those arguments don’t mean anything.

Yeah, if this Unidentified Gear was a bag that you could choose to either salvage or open (for free, whenever, wherever you wanted) then the idea would be largely be heralded as a huge improvement. There would still be the issue that you can’t choose to omit these from the list when you select “salvage all x” on your salvage kits. This means that you can’t just hit “salvage all” as easily if you’re planning on identifying them and is an actual loss of functionality but leaving them out of that list and adding a fourth option to “salvage all containers” would work.

Instead with the way it’s been implemented and with the terminology they’ve chosen the message is that in “PoF you have heart vendors that charge you a fee in order to identify your own unidentified gear”. It feels like you’re being charged to get your “real” equipment, that your “unidentified gear” is basically just a bill that must be paid in order to get the “real” loot (rares, exotics etc) and with the price being charged that “real” loot is probably worth less than what you paid for it.

Absolutely agreed!

ArcanistSeven.8720:

Cyninja.2954:

ArcanistSeven.8720:

Cyninja.2954:

Most points as to why there changes are bad were already pointed out and I wholeheartedly agree.

Here is the big one though which makes all of this nonsens, well nonsense:

“You’re assuming every player will have PoF and access to mounts, which will not be the case.”

That’s all that needs to be said to shoot down any of these rubbish ideas.

“Having mounts locked behind an expansion probably means nothing like this will ever happen unless they think it will boost exp pack sales but for the sake of brainstorming” i acknowledge this what i want is ideas to deal with this and your own ideas.

There is nothing to deal with. Arenanet has a business and design model in place. You are literally asking for people to brainstorm about something that will not happen or is not likely to happen at any point in time.

You could have just as well started a thread about tee and have people brainstorm via what crazy ways tee could be made. Actually that might have been more enjoyable than debating player restrictive game design decisions.

You want to brainstorm, here is my take on the ideas:

- it’s never a good idea to restrict player freedoms which were already in place
- less convenience or reduction in convenience are very tricky subjects and need to be dealt with very very carefully
- the entire wp and movement system is part of core tyrias design as well as connected to other aspects like world completion

Your ideas are basically taking a hammer to a glass window and smahing it when there was nothing wrong with it in the first place.

As Neural said, if you want to not waypoint, don’t waypoint but ride your mount instead. “Problem” solved.

thats your opinion you think my ideas are bad i think the current fast travel system hurts the game more than it helps and should be replaced. it must be so restricting making you traverse the developers world rather than skipping past it all. by not making restrictive designs you can render other content useless examples would be saints row 4 with the super powers which render vehicles pointless.
Having one elite spec at one time is restrictive design but it ensures the previous core specs are still needed. this fast travel system defeats the purpose of having a huge game world when you can just teleport kitten near anywhere you want which destroys the illusion of a big epic world.

You’re assuming everyone wants the “illusion of a big epic world”, some of us just want to get to where we want to go without having to afk run to get there and not all of us want to deal with the mobs in between point a and point b. I chose GW2 over other games BECAUSE of things like waypoints. I’m ok with the new implementation on mounts but I don’t like things being taken away just because we have something new added. I like having a choice in mode of travel. I used my glider a lot in mountainous regions rather than waypoint when I wanted to but if I’m trying to get somewhere for content then I do NOT want to have to run there. I did map completion as many times as I have BECAUSE I like the convenience of the waypoint system and I would resent my wp’s being taken out just because we can now ride mounts. (Which as I recall, the reason we didn’t have mounts was because wp’s meant we didn’t need/want them in the game). Lots of people were skeptical about adding mounts because they DIDN’T want to have to run everywhere just to get to something and LIKED the convenience of just tping to the place they wanted to go. All of the points you’re making for removing waypoints are reasons that some people were skeptical or downright against the idea of mounts being added in the first place. If we’re removing the waypoints because of having mounts then I’d rather just not have mounts. (All of this is moot of course since the dev’s themselves did not want to remove waypoints to begin with and are not going to do so retroactively)

The Greyhawk.9107:

STIHL.2489:

I’m going to chime in and say I think these are bad ideas.

Mounts offer some special abilities, but they don’t seem to offer significant movement speed boost over my normal run speed, as such, trying to justify removing WP’s because we have mounts would be a massive negative.

If you want to run around on your mount, that is fine, you can take further away way points and run over, if that is what you enjoy, enjoy it, but not everyone wants to run everywhere, mount or no mount.

As for what would need to change, personally.. nothing, from what I have seen, the way they were put in does not break the Core game if they were added to it.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

If mounts are locked behind an expansion (as they are) then removing wps punishes all who don’t have that expansion. This is a suggestion that ignores all the f2p accounts, new accounts with PoF but without a level 80 and a mount yet, and accounts without PoF.

Pretty much covers why touching anything about the waypoints is a bad thing. While you may have a dislike of the WPs, for a lot of players (I won’t claim they are a majority of the base, but they are by no means an insignificant amount) do like WPs and found them to be a major drawing point.
I’ve been kittening around with BDO on and off (for little other reason than it was on sale for less than a meal at my preferred fast-food joint and the mobility in combat is actually pretty cool) and the complete lack of fast travel and total reliance on mounts means that some sixty odd percent of time online is spent AFKing while your mount moves you to wherever you needed to go (and yer kitten outta luck if there’s a boss event even a short distance away). So no, keep the waypoints the way they are. With the single caveat of finally fixing those waypoints rendered inoperable during the beginning of LS season Two.

You pretty much summed up what I was going to say. I’ll add that the WP system is a great system and it’s part of the reason mounts weren’t “required”. I like that they are adding to the system while not removing the WP’s for the people who don’t want to run everywhere.

Sometimes I wish there were more wp’s because if I want to get to a specific event there’s not always a wp nearby. But I’m happy with the system as is and don’t see the point in changing it. I do NOT want to “afk run” to a location just to make the map “feel bigger”, that’s wasting my time and half the time when I am running somewhere I’m constantly having to dodge fighting things that I don’t want to fight to get to where I’m going, adding more of that is NOT a plus for me.

ArcanistSeven.8720:

Ferelwing.8463:

ArcanistSeven.8720:

i like i dont have to play inventory wars anymore

I don’t like the inventory wars either, but I really do think there were better ways than this.

i like this way because my inventory isnt cluttered by masterwork runes or sigils althoght they should have rare unidentified equipment that has a chance of becoming an exotic.

Imagine if you could have just gotten tokens that you could go to a vendor which would “RNG” it for you and you could just choose to sell from the vendor or break it down with the vendor ie just get the mats? I mean there were other ways this could have worked without the inventory wars continuing and without the “pay to loot” aspect.

Excellent Name.9574:

Ferelwing.8463:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

IndigoSundown.5419:

…You can no more predict the future than I can.

Unless you’re a dev or someone who has been testing it… Then you’re spinning it in a “positive” based on what you think it will give you, but ignoring the negatives is a bit much. Seriously though, telling people they’re “missing out”? Yeah, exactly, they are missing out instantly because newer and new players don’t get to start the content with the same choices that older players do. So yeah, you’re right I will be missing out and not because of how much time I’m going to put into it but because I don’t have the gold to play the way I want to and now I have to grind for gold rather than just play the game for the “content”.

Leave him be he is one of those players that claimed nothing was wrong with HoT either and that the tedious, annoying and “challenging” HoT content will boost player base. You can’t argue with self-deception.

Ahh, so the Pollyanna type then? I have 5 people in the house to play with me (husband and teen kids). When we got to the HoT maps two quit playing completely and preferred playing games like Scyrim, LoTR Middle Earth etc rather than continuing the HoT maps(for perspective I’ve been playing a year). Their complaint? Dying a ton and not having enough gold to tp. Feeling always underpowered even when at max level. Oh and always being lost because the mini-map was not particularly helpful.

Fast forward to the Demo: They played with the mounts and it looked like they would want to come back and play again (yay, I could finally have 5 people in a team for fractals and dungeons without constantly fighting to convince them that it would be worth it or always lfg) and then I saw the loot issues, immediately I realized their interest would be gone in hours. They didn’t like HoT maps because they didn’t make enough gold to tp when they died and so they sat there waiting for someone to help them or had to log out and wait for me to log in and give them enough cash to tp some place safe. When they realize that to see the loot they’re getting they have to pay, their interest is going byebye and I am not going to put money into the game when I know that’s how it will turn out. This isn’t cynicism this is just knowing I have 2 kids who will absolutely refuse to play if that is the mechanic.

I was going to pre-order 4 deluxe copies after they played the demo and I saw their genuine excitement about the mounts, II’ve already pre-ordered for myself. I liked the idea they could make some changes on characters they had and get the extra slot/level 80 boost but I can’t justify spending that kind of money when I know for a fact they’ll be frustrated and quit within a week. Not being able to see “cool loot” in the beginning won’t be an issue but having to do a heart for the chance and then seeing that it’s going to cost them extra coins to just see if they have cool loot? That will be the end of it, I might be able to get them to limp into 2 weeks or with the promise that there are cooler mounts later but I doubt that will be a real factor. Their very real “I can’t buy anything and now I can’t see my loot without paying for it first” will be the death nell in that plan. So yeah, I’m frustrated, I wanted to play with my kids for a change and plot out getting achievements/going through content and this new “mechanic” pretty much ends it before it begins. I’d probably limp through it (resenting the fact that I am being treated by default badly due to gold generation etc) but my kids? They won’t.

ArcanistSeven.8720:

i like i dont have to play inventory wars anymore

I don’t like the inventory wars either, but I really do think there were better ways than this.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

IndigoSundown.5419:

…You can no more predict the future than I can.

Unless you’re a dev or someone who has been testing it… Then you’re spinning it in a “positive” based on what you think it will give you, but ignoring the negatives is a bit much. Seriously though, telling people they’re “missing out”? Yeah, exactly, they are missing out instantly because newer and new players don’t get to start the content with the same choices that older players do. So yeah, you’re right I will be missing out and not because of how much time I’m going to put into it but because I don’t have the gold to play the way I want to and now I have to grind for gold rather than just play the game for the “content”.

Now if we were talking Karma? I have that in the millions. I have completed the central tyria maps on 4 characters. I have completed the maps in HoT on 3. I have completed the LW3 maps on 2. Karma is something I have a LOT of but gold? Gold requires years of time invested plus the achievements (if I don’t want to grind, which I’ve mentioned I don’t want to grind). So now lucky me, I get to start the new expac at an instant disadvantage. Yep, hard to spin it in a positive, no matter how I look at it.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

So, sell the unid and make coin. It’s not hard..

…… You’re missing the entire point, selling the stuff means you miss out on the collections, you miss out on the possibility to have better items etc… You’re coming up with “solutions” that aren’t solutions. Selling it without knowing what you’re selling (green/blue etc RNG whatever) doesn’t solve the problem and it doesn’t make the situation better for new players. It actually punishes them because now while they paid exactly the same amount (if not more depending on level they purchased for the expac) they don’t get access to the same content as someone who has been there since launch because they’re broke and they can’t afford to decide whether or not they want to ID something. I don’t care about the RNG factor that you keep bringing up (it’s not there blah blah blah etc), because they have no choice but to sell or break it down for mats due to lack of gold generation this penalizes them from the start. It’s a mechanic that wasn’t there before and was added because…. ???

You’re still arguing that it’s a “great” thing without addressing the actual concerns. I really got into playing GW2 because I unlocked a collection. If I were a new player who insta-level’d to PoF I will not see a collection until I finally have enough money to identify an item , but someone who has been playing since launch who starts the map at the exact same time as I do can unlock the whole collection because they have gold and their rate at getting gold is always going to be higher. I didn’t feel this way when I bought HoT, I felt like everything was tied to a form of progression and that I wasn’t being “penalized” because I wasn’t an original GW2 player. I felt like I could earn my way up. I got to immediately unlock collections just by having something drop in my inventory (sometimes I had to choose to unlock the skin). I didn’t have to pay just to see whether I wanted to or not. I didn’t have to make decisions based on my bank account, I got to make an instant decision based on “Do I want this item or not?”. It didn’t feel arbitrary and it didn’t feel like I was being penalized. It felt like a natural progression.

Deciding based on bank account is NOT any of those things. Pretending otherwise is a bit demeaning and if you again return to “it’s not really an item because it’s not really worth anything” or use the apples to oranges comparison of MF… I’ll remind you, the MF is not a good comparison. When you place items in the MF you already know what types of items you’re putting in, you know their stats and their worth and you still decided that you wanted to place them in there. You went into every single step fully aware and you CHOSE to risk trying for a better item (or you just wanted to remove an account bound item from your bank and get something you could sell).

This is completely different at no point did you make an informed choice, and the RNG factor you keep harping on completely ignores the if you’re broke you will never see an ecto or better piece of equipment or start a collection all because of your bank account. A problem uniquely started by this new expansion and not a problem in any other maps. If this is meant to be “stand alone” without requiring HoT or LW’s then this then it’s not exactly a selling point since the only people it benefits are those who started playing when the game launched.

No amount of “but, but, but” is going to convince this “newer” player that this is “helpful”. It isn’t, I have been playing catch-up for a year and it was ok but this is NOT ok. Starting the new expac at the same time as the older players having finally completed a good portion of the HoT achievements but because gold progression is an issue for me I am arbitrarily locked out from starting the new collections or be given a fair chance at progression just doesn’t feel good no matter how you try to spin it to me. Telling me that selling these items, without thinking about whether or not I actually would want to if I had the “gold” to do so, ignores my entire point. This is spin, I don’t want to have all my choices be decided based on whether or not I have enough money in the bank to ID things and I really don’t want the next part to be losing money that I didn’t have on worthless loot. I’ve been playing for a year, I spent a LOT of time trying to get other people to play. When I say this is NOT going to help, I’m not being obtuse I’m being honest. I’m a newer player, I don’t like the idea that because I don’t have a massive bank account I am excluded at the very beginning. I don’t care that I may get more mats (which remains to be seen) and no amount of “sell it to the vendor” is going to convince me that is going to “solve” the issue of gold generation. It feels bad to me that the ONLY reason I can’t participate in something I like (going through my loot) is because I don’t have thousands of gold waiting to be spent. The current system is flawed but at least I get to make informed choices at every single step. This system is arbitrary and punishes new players.

I hate gambling period. Don’t like it IRL, don’t like it in games and really don’t like it with loot. As I said previously all other RPG’s that I played had a different mechanic for iding if they had id at all and this just feels bad.

Daddicus.6128:

Ferelwing.8463:

Completely agreed, when I’m actively trying to finish achievements in areas I will sometimes get the salvage achievement multiple times. I agree that it would be be far too much if it’s 3 karma. I could handle 1 but anything more than that and I’m sure that I’d be in trouble pretty quickly. I also agree again that the entire idea frustrates me, if I wanted GW1 mechanics I would be playing GW1.

Well, IF there was a good reason for it, I would listen. I’m a very large (in more ways than one) fan of this game. I will not easily leave it, but two ANet decisions (since and including HoT) have created some unacceptable situations (to me): mapping and now IDing.

They burned their goodwill with me when they released HoT. Not by the release (they’ve always made mistakes, and frequently admitted and then corrected them). But this time, their refusal to articulate their reasoning, coupled with not changing things, is causing me to reconsider my commitment to the game.

I’d be willing to hear them out… But the reasoning better be absolutely amazing, because the con’s especially as a newer player outweigh the pro’s currently. I’t too late for me I pre-purchased before the demo but I’m hesitating to buy the 4 more copies for my husband and kids, especially since two of them quit last time because the gold progression was grindy and slow. They felt they were never going to have good enough gear, their enjoyment waned pretty fast. They tried the demo and only really played with the mount mechanics I worry they’re going to quit again as soon as they realize not only are they broke but now they can’t get rares/exotics/precursors at all without going further in the “red”. I originally bought the game so that I could play with the kids/husband as a team and we could do things together. Now I can’t even get them to all log in at the same time because of the problems with loot/progression. I still enjoy the game and I was hoping the new expansion might help me convince them to come play with me but I really feel like this mechanic means if I purchase it then it will end up as a mistake.

I realize there are multiple levels of people trying to play the game and it’s difficult to balance it around the different groups (older players vs newer players have different needs).. It just currently feels like the game keeps advertising that it wants the “newer players” but then punishes them for playing and sometimes the older players come off on forums like they’re saying something along the lines of “filthy beginner peasants, you don’t belong in OUR game, go away”

Rather than remember what it was like when they first started playing and calculate the bonuses they’ve gotten from playing vs where they started from. I understand that there are differences in needs between the groups but if a game offers a level 80 boost in an attempt to “jump start end game content for new players” then it would make sense that they didn’t then punish said new players for not having “end game gold generation”.

I agree with the mapping, I could go on about what happened when I finally finished the personal story and went straight to HoT but, probably not the right thread.

Daddicus.6128:

Ferelwing.8463:

Honestly, I agree with you, I’m just saying for me a more palatable option would be karma, but it still feels bad to regress from having everything there and being able to make an informed decision vs “unid” (I don’t want to call it loot because it really doesn’t feel like it) gamble.

It’s not a real choice.

It might be OK to me if it were like 1 or maybe 2 karma. But, I’ve salvaged well over a hundred thousand items. Even 3 karma would easily eat through my reserve.

Plus, there’s no benefit for me, the player. Why do I have to pay at all for something that is just part of the game elsewhere?

Completely agreed, when I’m actively trying to finish achievements in areas I will sometimes get the salvage achievement multiple times. I agree that it would be be far too much if it’s 3 karma. I could handle 1 but anything more than that and I’m sure that I’d be in trouble pretty quickly. I also agree again that the entire idea frustrates me, if I wanted GW1 mechanics I would be playing GW1.

I really love this list!

Daddicus.6128:

Ferelwing.8463:

Just a thought, they could remove the “pain” from this for new and old players by changing it from silver to karma. Karma is an easily renewable source, HoT, LWS3, and PoF areas all have redoable renowned hearts.

Currency is currency. I won’t pay any of my hard-earned currency to identify loot.

Honestly, I agree with you, I’m just saying for me a more palatable option would be karma, but it still feels bad to regress from having everything there and being able to make an informed decision vs “unid” (I don’t want to call it loot because it really doesn’t feel like it) gamble.

It’s not a real choice.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Djinn.9245:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Djinn.9245:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

You’re just thinking about this from the wrong end. It’s just a different system. Rares and exotics are not mixed into the bunch, they do not exist until you ID the trophies. Imagine they are a chest that has a random item inside and a better chance at getting a rare than you do from drops and that it costs you 1.68s to open them. The beauty is that if you just want materials, you can salvage them directly and get a lot more materials than you do usually, like a LOT more.

This is not how people think. People want to know what is in the bag. And if there is a chance that what is in the bag is something good, even if the chance is small, people will want to know even more. That is why gamble chests and grab bags in stores work.

The developers are counting on this very thing for BL chests and the new gamble boxes. So they obviously understand exactly how this new UnID Gear will work. So a large number of, if not most, people will want to ID the gear. New players will not have good Magic Find and so will probably not even break even from the cost of ID. So as I said the new players lose. Just what GW2 needs…

No, they will still end up with luck to increase their MF as well as comparable loot drops to just playing normally.

It’s interesting that you are consistently presenting your ideas as fact. Do you work for Anet and you’re just hoping they don’t figure out that you’re answering questions? If you don’t work for Anet you actually have no idea.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

They already have low MF so don’t get a lot of rares regardless. The 1.68s cost will be more than equalled out by material rewards, that’s how these gold sinks work, its not trying to steal anything from you, it is you exchanging some silver for more materials and skins. That’s it.

Yes, they have to PAY 1.68s to get the “comparable loot drops to just playing normally”. So they ARE stealing from us if you are correct about the “comparable loot drops to just playing normally”. We have to pay $ and time, as Whitworth and others have pointed out, to get the “comparable loot drops to just playing normally”.

I meant comparable drops and value after you take out the cost to ID. They want to remove gold from the economy, not materials.

Gold generation is already a pain point for new players because the “bonuses” to that generation 1% I believe per achievement level and I think monthly you get around 1 or 2%. So new players have to play quite a while before gold starts to really be a thing they have. They have to either grind achievements or grind places like the Silver Wastes to attempt to get enough gold to really start “enjoying” the game. Each of the expac’s have involved a “buy now get an instant level 80 plus gear and char slot” as part of the selling point. People who are trying to convince their friends to come play like to point out that they can instantly join them in the upper levels and then they can also do the content along with their friends who are already fully leveled … What isn’t really discussed is that gold generation until you’ve been playing a while IS a problem. Events don’t give you much gold when you first start playing, I’ve been playing a year and I get a couple of silvers during an event (plus trash loot, rares and the occasional exotic). My husband who doesn’t play as much as I do only gets a few coppers from the exact same event and his loot shares are less. His primary gold gains come from selling rares and crafting. While I can understand older players might “need” a gold sink it could be handled another way, one that doesn’t involve punishing newer players. It’s pretty difficult to get someone interested in playing a game when they’re constantly out of gold. “I can’t tp to you because I don’t have the money… etc”

While some players don’t have this problem and don’t care, I’ve been trying to get friends to come join the game and this mechanic makes me leery of recommending it, I don’t want to hype them up on a game then have them want to quit because they are always feeling the “gold pains”.

As someone who has only been playing a year I can attest to the frustration with how long it’s taking just to attain gold (I don’t want to spend hours in the Silver Wastes or in AB and while for a while there I was enjoying doing Lake Doric for the leather specifically so that I could make Ascended items, I didn’t do it for the money it was literally the only reliable place to get leather from and it was BORING to sit there and do once it stopped involving going up the hill.) I’m not fully geared, I’m still working hard to build a full set for even 1. I got side-tracked since I was already gathering for Ascended I figured it wouldn’t be too much hassle to gather for a Legendary (I was SO wrong but once I got started I was committed and so I got to the Precursor stage before switching focus to just trying to get ONE character full ascended).

For the players that have all of these things it doesn’t matter, for the players who have been playing for years it also probably doesn’t matter but for those of us who are “new” or “newer” it really does. I understand the need to balance a system but I object to being punished because I didn’t start playing the game when it first launched.

Carighan.6758:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Essentially, while this feature might benefit the player who is cynical about loot in GW2, it kittens the player who likes loot.

Completely honest here: I hope that no one likes the loot system in GW2. It’s so annoying to the player, it really shouldn’t get any praise. Basically any other MMORPG has handled loot-to-inventory better than this.

That’s not to say that it is unusable. Clearly we play the game. But it’s the low point of MMORPGs, and it really is difficult to make it worse.

Removing a good 75% (or so, felt like 75%) of trash loot drops in favor of a currency I can “trade in” for either crafting mats or a gamble on skins would… be pretty cool?

Now this would be nice, having a token or a currency that lets me choose what I want to do with it is fine. (IE this token is worth x (mats) x(loot) x(skin).) I would prefer that to paying to id with silvers etc. If they absolutely have to have us “spend” then perhaps having us use Karma would be a better option? As it’s not nearly as difficult to build up and it doesn’t punish the new player nor the beginning player.

Just a thought, they could remove the “pain” from this for new and old players by changing it from silver to karma. Karma is an easily renewable source, HoT, LWS3, and PoF areas all have redoable renowned hearts. As they already have us having to do a heart to even start the “id” portion of it then it would make better sense and feel more “fair”. I object to spending coins that are a harder resource for new players, gold generation until you have started getting more achievements and spent more time playing the game is very low (I think you have to finish a full month before you get your first “gold generation bonus” and I can’t remember the first achievement box level you get, I want to say it’s 100 achievements but it might be lower than that. But at 1% per “achievement level” it still takes time. So while many older players may have too much gold those at the beginning of that are not getting nearly that much). As a result the id system is punishing to those just getting started and they will miss out on collections etc because “salvage all” is less expensive then “id”. I suspect that some of this is an attempt to make up for the lack of waypoints in the new area, but that would mean that they need to scale that based on the same stats that they use for waypoints (though I’m not entirely sure that will be fair either since I suspect it’s level based not based on what your bonus gold generation is plus your chances for loot. If you immediately come to the new area by getting insta-level 80 it’s pretty punishing), but again gold generation is a problem for new players which will then be punishing as “bonuses to gold generation” take a while to build up.

I wouldn’t mind nearly as much if it involved karma. It would encourage people to get map completion and do the story-lines and in many areas hearts are a renewable resource (and honestly, I’d LOVE to have things that don’t clutter my bank to spend it on).

Nilix.2170:

Ferelwing.8463:

The new mechanic doesn’t feel like it offers meaningful choices, if you choose to sell the items to vendor sight unseen or you salvage the items you will always wonder if perhaps there was a rare/exotic/precusor in that group. If you choose not to and all you get are greens and blue’s then you will feel like you wasted money.

NONE of those are good answers.

Welcome to gambling.

Ferelwing.8463:

I don’t like to gamble, I like to plan and make informed decisions.

Yeah, neither do I. Which is why we’re going to wait for the gamblers with lots of money to stack 20k UNID’s, open them, tell you the drop rates, and you can be more informed as to whether Identifying or Salvaging is a more intelligent decision.
Until then, sell, salvage, or stock them up.

A lot of what I see right now is people bemoaning the fact that they’ll now have to be responsible about their actions. If you get an UNID, it’s a green. It dropped from the green loot table. Paying to ID is just paying to reroll the loot table. Much like how paying 1.5g lets you reroll for Pearls in Abaddon’s Reliquary. No one stole a yellow from you. No one snatched a precursor either. In the same way that you’re not going to play a game mode that you don’t like, don’t take a gamble that you don’t enjoy.

Honestly, no, I don’t really care for that “table” either. I don’t randomly buy stuff to put into the mystic toilet for the “loot” either. If I have a LOT of extra dungeon tokens and I want to buy the skins but the items aren’t useful I will put 4 of them in the mystic toilet with the understanding that I am not getting anything super awesome but something that I can either salvage or sell on the TP. Otherwise I avoid it. I don’t do the gambling for ecto’s either. At the same time NONE of those options force me to spend what little gold/silvers that I do have for the possibility. The only thing I’m risking is stuff I already have.

The “responsibility” that you’re talking about isn’t responsibility it’s gambling. There really isn’t anything else about it. I don’t like gambling and I don’t like that the majority of the loot involves gambling. I like collections, that’s what got me addicted to playing and then led me to start doing all of the fun things like achievements etc. Gold has never been a priority and I don’t like that all of a sudden it’s going to have to be.

I chose GW2 after a LOT of research on different RPG style games out there. Since there really aren’t anymore LAN related RPG games left and the MMO has taken over the place that LAN RPG’s used to hold, I did a LOT of research. I chose this game based on the mechanics and that it was like the RPG’s that I’ve already played through. GW1 had the “id” mechanic and I specifically didn’t buy it because I was warned about it.

So now, new maps that “call back” to GW1 and we get the “id” mechanic? It’s a regression to take something that you got for free in every other area to suddenly have it taken away because GW1 call-back.

I’m a new player relatively speaking. I started playing last year and I do not have a massive amount of gold stored up. I’m still scrambling to finish making ascended gear on my 3 main characters and while I did spend literally hours doing nothing but gathering so that I could work on a legendary (crafted a precursor and I am now grinding my way to get the rest of the pieces needed to finally finish it while simultaneously trying to complete ascended gear). The only things I spent gold on were the Mystic related things. I haven’t amassed the amount of gold others do because I didn’t want to sit and grind Silver Wastes or do any of the other things that would get me lots of gold because that wasn’t fun for me. I liked exploring, getting achievement points for finding and exploring sections. I liked finishing achievements and redoing certain instances to try to complete them in new ways. I have map completion on 4 characters and am steadily working to complete the map on 4 more, for no other reason then I was curious to see how every single class played through and every single variation of the storyline (I will eventually have 3 of every race so that I can play through every single back story just because for me that is interesting). So for me the gold sink feels like a punishment because most collections involve drops and I like collecting things so I’m going to feel compelled to id which puts me in a situation where I’m going to be losing a lot of money and resenting it.

The drops in the new area involved unid’s for events and unid’s for chests etc. I could see chests sure, you get a key and unlock a chest, perhaps iding those would make sense (but they should still be separated by different types rather than ALL of them be green) but those involved doing events.. Getting unid’s for events (I spend the time finish an event and get paid with loot… I do NOT want to have to pay to get loot id’d and the mats that dropped weren’t anymore useful than the stuff that I get in HoT, plus the bonus of HoT always showing me precisely what it is I’m getting so I can make an INFORMED choice rather than gamble.)

MokahTGS.7850:

Anet’s silence on the matter is par for the course when they make a controversial change. They introduce and idea and how it’s implemented, and then see how the reaction is. Things are iterated on internally and then discussed, internally. Sometimes that internal discussion is tested on internal testers and semi-external testers who could not be described as “public”.

The weekend playtest demo was a public reveal to a system in this process. Give them feedback on that system and leave the guessing and speculation out.

My feedback: I like the system as a whole except that you cannot see rarity differences for rare and exotic gear. Splitting those out would do miles for this system. As a player I do not like having to gamble to find rares that I was getting from the previous system. If the intention was to add a new gold sink I do not think this was the way to do it. It adds stress (in that the player feels worse about a game system ie has less fun) to the game and only adds small amounts of QoL. Splitting out the rarities stops that stress and allows for the player to identify (and use the gold sink) for rares and exotics and salvage or sell the rest.

As a player I would be far more likely to sell the unidentified blues and greens on the TP to let others gamble if they want.

I dunno that heart mechanic will be a pain as well and added “stress” point. Having to always complete a heart before you even get to the “id” portion is ONE more added step and a long one. The heart fill was a bit long in my opinion for an NPC that serves as more than just something to purchase from but also something that offers a “service”. I did all the hearts, I do not really remember one that had a “short” bar but I might be misremembering (someone please correct me if I’m wrong here).

Also, the point was to try to draw new players as well as old into the new area. I don’t think having new players who go through Central Tyria first (and maybe not play HoT) will like the “have to do a heart AND THEN pay to ID” system. It will turn them off pretty quickly.

I understand the “gold sink” need for higher end players but at the same time this gold sink punishes players who haven’t been playing that long.

I like getting collections (it’s what got me hooked on playing). I’m not generally interested in the gold portion.. Now to continue getting collections I have to spend and that is punishing. I could always choose NOT to do it and then I will never have the option of getting a piece from a collection because I always have to salvage because I never have enough to actually “gamble” to try for something. To me that’s a barrier for entry and it punishes new players. So while those who already have everything in the game probably won’t notice it, those of us who do not will notice it. If the goal was to try to bring new players to play the expac I don’t think this mechanic will work out especially if they’ve been playing the free version and are on the Central Tyria maps.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Ferelwing.8463:

…snip…

You’re just thinking about this from the wrong end. It’s just a different system. Rares and exotics are not mixed into the bunch, they do not exist until you ID the trophies that you get as a drop. Imagine they are a chest that has a random item inside and a better chance at getting a rare than you do from drops and that it costs you 1.68s to open them. The beauty is that if you just want materials, you can salvage them directly and get a lot more materials than you do usually, like a LOT more.

Yes, it’s a gold sink, which is required.

If you like keeping your materials for crafting, this is going to be a lot better system as you well get a lot more materials by salvaging the unid.

The RNG happens with your knowledge here too, and you have a far better chance at rares, even with low MF when you ID these unid trophies.’

It absolutely is a “best of both worlds” because now you can make even more materials from salvage, or more gold than previously from selling the unid or salvage them for more rares than you would have gotten from drops too.

You can’t really fix inflation, you can only slow it, this will help somewhat.

It is a call-back to GW1 where people made lots of money selling unid items and others liked them because they could get them cheaper, get decent skins and sometimes make bank with good upgrades. I think however they should have just called them something else so people who don’t understand how they work wouldn’t think they are missing out on anything.

Look at this example.

If I wanted to play Guild Wars 1 I would be. I looked up both games and game mechanics before I chose and bought this game and I actually read all the information out there to determine whether or not I would be interested in playing this game. I did not like many of the Guild Wars 1 mechanics. The id system was something that was mentioned, I can’t think of a single LAN RPG that requires you to pay to identify your items. It was implemented in Diablo 3 but that wasn’t really a LAN based RPG, I think there were some unidentified loot items in Diablo II had Dekkard Cain who id’d items for free (you did have to tp back to town but you got a free ID). Torchlight II didn’t really have that many that required ID (all rares required ID the rest of the “trash” tier stuff didn’t need to ID’d at all and you could just sell to vendor). Only rares (yellows) required ID and they were from id scrolls that dropped (you could buy the scrolls from vendors but the price point wasn’t a pain point nor did it feel punishing since the gold generation in the game was pretty high).

If this involved me spending karma we wouldn’t be having this conversation since Karma is something I have a glut of and is an easily renewable source. If it involved using karma then I would be more than ok with the idea since if I need to id things I already have to a do a heart and it feels “fair”.

The information gathered and the maths done showed that this “new callback mechanic” is a lose/lose situation. My drops were not “high enough” for it to be worth it and while I am not at the top of the luck department I have a high luck value. Reality also argues with your statement that this will fix the TP. This will not do all the “promised” things that you’re claiming as the HoT and Central Tyria zones will still exist as is. That means that these other maps (who have a LOT of players who will probably not buy the expac) will still be on those maps and the TP will still be the same. I already pre-ordered but there’s a part of me that isn’t sure that I should have, I am still holding out that this mechanic isn’t going to be implemented. I have 4 other family members who I have yet to purchase the expac for…. Originally I was going to wait till the first day of school to surprise them but now I’m not sure this is such a good idea. I already purchased 9 copies of HoT previously for family members and the money spent on the game already might not justify purchasing the next expansion if there is going to be a mechanic that makes them refuse to play. I already have enough trouble getting them to play currently because they lack the gold to do very much and earning it “is grindy”. While for you that might not be a big deal, for me, I purchased this game to try to play with my family and have my kids friends play as an added bonus. The lack of gold and now having to spend gold to possibly get something cool (but most likely get something worthless and completely lose out on the deal) will change their minds about playing again. So no, for me this is NOT something “fun” and “exciting” and I doubt very seriously it will do anything more than cause more hassle and make less people want to play. As it is, the more I think about it the more annoyed I get and the less excited I am to play.

Like I said, I’m a “new” player, I started last year. I worked steadily and have been slowly but surely gaining levels doing map completions and getting achievements but that doesn’t mean that I’ve gotten a lot of money along the way since that wasn’t usually my goal (my goal has been to make things, go places and complete interesting content, but also gather as many things for collections as possible because they’re fun for me. Spending TONS to “maybe” get something for a collection is NOT a choice it’s a money sink and unfair to those who are just getting started out.)

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Djinn.9245:

The cost of materials doesn’t matter. What will ultimately happen is less rare & exotic (including precursors?) because a certain percentage of them are hidden behind Unidentified Gear. Only those with high Magic Find have a good chance of getting rares & exotics, so screw the new players. The new players get to either just salvage their UnID or pay exorbitantly in both $ and time to ID it for a not-good chance at better stuff.

Sounds great for the old players with high Magic Find. Too bad for everyone else.

They’ll make even more money than they would by salvaging the rares they rarely get by either selling the unid directly or salvaging and selling the materials, allowing them to just buy ecto.

This system is the best of both worlds since it allows new players with little MF to turn an even better profit (since they will still be getting fewer rares from drops because of their low MF) or generate a lot more materials for themselves. And it also gives Magic Find more value, for those that do have high MF, buying the unids on the TP, IDing them is likely to result in greater numbers of ecto being available as well as exotics and rares. The drop rate of rares from these ID’d with high MF is orders of magnitude better than mob drops.

Not only that, but the gold sink in IDing the items is needed and the increased use of the TP to sell the unids is also another gold sink. Gold sinks are needed to prevent hyper-inflation.

Rares and Exotics/precursor etc are mixed into the bunch and the loot from salvaging those is the same as salvaging a blue/green minus the sigils/runes. So no they will not make “even more money”. As has been discussed previously there isn’t a way to determine what is of value for “sale/mats” and what isn’t. When you salvage you do not get ecto/sigils/anything (but eyes of Kormir and no one knows what those are for).

So no it’s a gold sink and it’s mats aren’t separating into types (rare/exotic etc). In both cases these choices don’t feel meaningful or good. They feel like gambling and I don’t want to trade knowing what something is worth for “paying/spending time” for the same thing. I also do not want to buy an id mechanic (either gem store or otherwise) for new zones when all of the old zones don’t require it. I don’t like having an innate ability removed just to make me spend gold, your idea that it will fix inflation is wrong people with HoT will just go to those maps for loot, it will make it so those maps are still inhabited and rather then bother with the new mechanic you can continue to do AB or some of the other maps. Not all of the playerbase is going to buy the new expac and it’s unlikely that this new mechanic is going to be a “selling point” I would personally put it on the “con” list. Mounts are nice and perhaps fun but I can buy the expac, get the mounts and then stay in HoT areas for the loot. The cost is cheaper and the rewards for getting the loot are not “taxed”.

I don’t have a lot of gold, I’ve only been playing for a year and I don’t generally sell mats on the TP because I like having them for crafting items. I like the fact that every time I do an event I get loot that I can see and decide whether I want to salvage it or if it has value. The RNG happens with my knowledge. I don’t like the idea that I now have to make a catch 22 choice “Do I have enough gold to really risk looking at all this or do I just salvage it and wonder what I could have gotten”.. Neither of those feel like good choices. If I choose to salvage it then I always wonder if I could have gotten something useful. If I choose to ID the items and I spend the 2s60-2s90 copper and I get 2 mithril worth 60 copper… I will wish I’d just salvaged. Neither of these choices are "good options.

What’s the point of upping your “luck” if you never have enough money to spend to see what your “luck” got you? All of I sudden I now have to switch my focus from playing the game and just doing things, deciding what I want to keep or salvage or sell, to “which of two bad options do I go with and how can I get more gold so that I can continue to feel bad about these options”.

This isn’t a “best of both worlds”, I’ve been playing for a year and it feels like instead of encouraging me to want to keep playing they’re punishing me for not playing as long as someone else with a ton of gold to spend. This “catch22” is unnecessary and it’s not a useful mechanic, this will not fix inflation (You can still go to every other area and not have to pay to id items so the “glut” will still be there for mats), it’s not going to fix the inventory space issue, in general it just feels like it’s supposed to be a call-back to GW1 (also unnecessary).

Boysenberry.1869:

I do wish there was more of a difference in gameplay depending on your race. I mostly play Asura and how I can make it through so many conversations without calling those around me idiots is beyond my comprehension. Even worse was when Anise was questioning my intelligence during a living story mission! How can I tolerate a Bookah questioning my intelligence?!

I’m SO glad I wasn’t the only one who was annoyed by that… I really wish they would at the very least for instances have our charactors actual races kept in mind. It was incredibly frustrating playing through and having Taimi explaining things to me when she could have showed me diagrams and my Asura should have just been able to push through them rather then have her act like my Asura was a toddler. I was ok with her pointing out that I hadn’t done much recently when visiting Living Worlds season 2 but seriously there were so many points when I wondered why my Asura didn’t act like ANY of the Asuras in Rata Sum.

I run into the exact same problem with every other race except human. It was incredibly annoying going through my personal story and having someone explain to me what a Svanir was when I was playing a Norn and should KNOW what a Svanir is etc it’s those little pieces that sort of pull you out of the storyline.

Shadelang.3012:

Im gonna have to disagree with some people here. I like the identified gear. I understand why some people may not like it. But i feel like it helps to address one of the biggest problems with loot in gw2.

That its largely worth extremely little. Lets face it no one is excited to see loot if its not a precursor. Exotic? Salvage. Rare? Salvage.

But with this people kind of have to choose whether or not they want to go for exotics or rares and even precursors.

You can just salvage for safe reliable profit. Or go for that larger reward. Now alot of people will just salvage. But that heavily reduces the number of rares and exotics floating around. Including sigils and runes, as well as ectos. This might make them more worth getting.

As the prices on those items increase. The reward for GOING for those items goes up. Atleast that is what I am hoping will happen.

At the moment loot on an individual basis is largely pointless. I feel like this might be one of the best ways the change that over time.

At the moment crafting is largely pointless as well for many items. After all you can just buy that item often for less than the materials would cost you. Maybe as rare and exotics get rarer crafting will have more of a place. Where as now its mostly for spamming the daily patterns for quick profit.

As for the rest of the Beta. I was pretty happy with what I saw though I was kind of sad to only get to mess with one of the new pets against the new enemies.

I really want to see what a legendary hydra boss fight would be like. As well as some larger scale battles against those forged. (The one that puts up the walls? That would be REALLY cool in bigger battles. Imagine a boss version that puts up a labyrinth around him you have to navigate to get around when you get him to x% health and you have to make it to him and break his bar to get rid of it)

I’m going to have to disagree with you here. I enjoy checking out the loot in general. I’m more excited when I get exotic/rare/etc but I don’t mind getting the other stuff too because I’m always crafting things. I don’t like the extra steps that I’m going to have to go through nor do I like the “bad choices” feeling that it leaves.

1) If I salvage all to save time then I’m always wondering if I didn’t accidentally salvage a precursor/rare/exotic and I will have zero way of knowing for sure if I did or not.
2) I will have to spend extra time finishing a heart just to ID something that may or may not be worth less than the amount of time and money I spent identifying it.
3) I will now be paying for something that I had innately when I started playing this game and if there is a Mastery offered then the Mastery is only useful in the PoF zones and is therefore redundant for all other areas.

I don’t think it will change any of the problems in the TP because there are other zones that people can flock to where they can get rares/exotics without playing “flip a coin and hope” nor will they be risking losing money. I do worry that it will make the new areas less attractive when it costs extra to figure out what it is that you’ve gotten how do you know you’ve even been rewarded? For me it feels like a regression rather than progression.

I do understand that this new map harkens back to Guild Wars 1 but I don’t like the idea that we’re going to Guild Wars 1 style “content” just because we changed maps. If it’s changed in the 200 years since it was last visited then perhaps there should be a new mechanic involved (revisiting things in GW1 is great for nostalgia but I’m not a fan of the idea that this is the thing taken from GW1).

I was sort of hoping for another mechanic that would solve the inventory space problem, I’m not a fan of taking something that was free previously and then placing it behind a paywall.

Daddicus.6128:

Ashantara.8731:

• ID kits should be available from basic merchants, not heart vendors.
• Unidentified gear needs to stack by (and display said) rarit. That way everyone can decide what to salvage and what to identify, provided that the main point of this new (old) mechanic is to save inventory space…

I think that would be the ideal solution for everyone, no?

Not if the price remains the same. To salvage Fine items now, I pay 3c each. I would be OK with a stack of items that cost me 3c to ID AND salvage. But, having to pay 1.68s each just to id something worth the price of the mats only is highway robbery.

You’ve got a point, and truthfully I’m not sure I’m ok with the entire mechanic period. It just feels wrong to go from innately knowing what rewards you got to having to pay even just a token amount to know. I know they did it in Guild Wars 1 and the new area is in the “old” area but I’m not sure if I like that they decided to revisit that as part of this new expansion. I don’t like something that was innate being placed behind a paywall because “we changed maps”.

And if they give us an “identify loot” mastery it will be redundant because the only place we’ll need this mastery is in PoF zones and it really feels like a bad “choice” overall.

BoogerSammich.7189:

Daddicus.6128:

BoogerSammich.7189:

Daddicus.6128:

BoogerSammich.7189:

This mechanic saves bag space.
I don’t see a downside.

How? You still need those same slots after identifying the items.

That is an entirely separate conversation.
Maybe you will randomly ID gear while in the middle of playing.
I would ID/salvage near a vendor.

That’s irrelevant. When you ID them, they separate out into individual slots. So, you need exactly the same number of slots you did before.

It’s not irrelevant.
In fact, it’s entirely relevant.
we are talking about carrying around gear.
ID’ing the gear and/or salvaging it is a completely different conversation.

I used to just salvage on the spot and sell things to tp or put it in mats storage while running around. If I had a problem (ie sigils/runes that were worthless, then I’d see a vendor). It was never really a problem since I’d immediately begin the process as soon as an event was over or immediately after I opened a chest. Carrying around salvaging kits got to be frustrating so I bought the silver-matic/copper-matic and then paid to have extra shared inventory slots so that all of my chars could use them immediately. I realize that’s not an option for everyone but I still think it’s way better than the options we’ve been given. Especially since the unidentified gear comes in 1 color and you have to “guess” whether or not you’re getting rare/exotic/precursor style loot or green/blue loot.

Ashantara.8731:

• ID kits should be available from basic merchants, not heart vendors.
• Unidentified gear needs to stack by (and display said) rarit. That way everyone can decide what to salvage and what to identify, provided that the main point of this new (old) mechanic is to save inventory space…

I think that would be the ideal solution for everyone, no?

I wouldn’t like it honestly but it would be better than the current form. Honestly, the whole thing just feels like a regression in game-play, why do we suddenly have to start paying for something that we had innately to begin with? I do understand the problem is inventory space but surely there’s another way to handle it?

I dunno the more I think about it the more I keep thinking perhaps a token system : Have a genii hold your gear till you can retrieve it with tokens by getting a Mastery for it or something along those lines. The idea that all of a sudden because we’ve come to an area that harkens back to GW1, that we bring with it GW1 mechanics sort of bothers me (from what I’ve read having to id things was a Guild Wars 1 thing). You’d think after 200 or so years that they’d have changed? I’m not really in favor of it, it’s jarring to suddenly have to pay to id things. I really do not like it.

Dante.1763:

Ferelwing.8463:

He was asking if you can get those drops and they look different in unid’d form. The answer to that was no, the loot was all exactly the same color so you have no idea if you are carrying rare/exotic/precursors in your inventory or not as they were not separated till after you id’d them.

Deleted my post before you even posted that, my god you are kitten fast.

But yes, i realized that. I read really quick and skip words sometimes :P

Lol sorry about that, yeah I’d just hit refresh.

Dante.1763:

BoogerSammich.7189:

Do we know if there will be yellow and orange unidentified gear?

If you are asking, if there is yellow and orange that drops from the Unided gear, then yes there is, a few people have posted images in this thread, it seems to be the new elonian skins as the yellows

He was asking if you can get those drops and they look different in unid’d form. The answer to that was no, the loot was all exactly the same color so you have no idea if you are carrying rare/exotic/precursors in your inventory or not as they were not separated till after you id’d them.

Ok, serious question.
Are rares and exotics being removed from the loot tables that include these unidentified gear kits?
Because this makes all of the difference.
I am operating under the assumption that they are NOT removed from these loot tables?[/quote]

Yes, if you salvage the items you do not get ectos or anything else you get baseline mats, if you sell the item you do not get a rare/exotic price for them. You get a blue/green price for them. That is why we are objecting. ALL of the unidentified id’s are blue/green until id’d.[/quote]

Do we know if there will be yellow and orange unidentified gear?[/quote]

You do not get yellow or orange unidentified gear at all. Literally it’s all hiding in the same space. That is what we’ve been saying all along, this is what we saw in the demo. I had a stack of blue unidentified gear and out of that I got 1 rare and the rest were green and blue. The entire stack is the same there is zero separation between what it actually is.

BoogerSammich.7189:

Ferelwing.8463:

BoogerSammich.7189:

Ferelwing.8463:

JaddynnStarr.5201:

BoogerSammich.7189:

Ferelwing.8463:

BoogerSammich.7189:

This mechanic saves bag space.
I don’t see a downside.

Except they could have saved space by just giving us all bags or tokens or pretty much anything else that didn’t require us to first complete a heart, then pay extra to id all that loot that we just worked to get.

Ferelwing.8463:

Except they could have saved space by just giving us all bags or tokens

The bag system is both a part of the economy, and a game mechanic. It has always been present, and always will be. Same as in any other MMO I’ve played. Also, there are tons of ways to get bags without spending gold.

Ferelwing.8463:

anything else that didn’t require us to first complete a heart

Again, hearts are a core game mechanic. No-one is “required” to play the game.

Ferelwing.8463:

then pay extra to id all that loot that we just worked to get.

There is no need to ID the loot. You can simply salvage the unidentified gear, or sell directly to a vendor.

you are right, there is no REQUIREMENT to id the loot, but if you DONT ID it, you lose out on any opportunity to loot an exotic or rare item that can be sold or salvaged for a much higher profit price. Now you MUST pay to get a chance at an exotic or rare, that you would NATURALLY HAVE GOTTEN without having to spend money to ID it.

basically what has happened is, is Anet wants to make us pay for things we already were getting for free(minus cost of salvage kit of course…). That cost is counter productive. Say you pay 1s 68c to id a piece of gear and it turns out to be a blue tier piece. Then you pay another 68c or 1s 20c to salvage that into a mat you can use(cuz the gear is useless to you otherwise or you can sell it for 1s to a vendor). You receive 2 mithril ore from the salvage. So now you have payed 2s 40c – 2s 90c to get 2 mithril that’s worth 60c. Congratulations… now you’re paying 2s 90c for 2 mithril, worth a total of 60c…. enjoy your cake sunshine!

or the alternative is to just salvage it outright and never have another chance at getting an exotic/rare/pre-cursor drop ever again… your choice.

Thank you! That exactly describes the situation. You can either risk paying 2s 40c- 2s90c for something worth 60c OR you can choose not to see an exotic/rare/pre-cursor drop for as long as you are in the new zones. Neither of those choices feel like good choices.

Im sorry, but I think this argument is incredibly weak at best.
The basis of your position rests on these presupposed, theoretical drops coming out of these unidentified gear kits.
The argument here is based on pure conjecture.
You are upset about not getting something that you already do not have, and that does not exist.
If you apply this logic elsewhere, it’s like saying that every time you salvage a rare INSTEAD of throwing it into the Mystic toilet, you are somehow being robbed of the chance to get an exotic back because you didn’t get the chance to roll on it, because you salvaged it instead.
This logic is entirely circular, and will only lead back to itself.

Furthermore, you are assuming that rare and exotic drops will not come from ANYWHERE else and that identifying green gear kits is your only opportunity to roll on this gear.

Im sorry, I am REALLY NOT trying to sound rude, but this makes no sense to me.

Look, the issue I’m having here is simple… If the problem is inventory space then take the RNG to another location give everyone a token for blue/green/rare/exotic/precursor level gear and have us go to a vendor that tells us what token we’ve got no fee, just see the guy who explains it, if they wanted they could have made it a mastery.

With the Mystic forge you know precisely what will happen when you put 4 items in and it doesn’t cost you anything to put those items in. You have a very low chance of getting anything cool but it’s still there and if you want to risk it you can, at the same time it costs you NOTHING (the stuff you’ve got that you’re using you earned or bought on the TP for that purpose). Having something that used to be free and innate taken away to “save space” is a step backwards.

The only circular logic I’ve seen thus far has been the logic used to explain why this isn’t a regression in game-play and why this isn’t a problem but a “feature”. There were better ways to solve the problem of space. Perhaps having a Mastery point that gave you a magic bag that never ran out of space that you could put into your inventory or perhaps something that turned each of those items into a token that you went to see a vendor for RNG to take place there and you could “retrieve” the items that your tokens set you up for then salvage etc… All of those would have still granted “knowledge” without setting people up to wonder whether or not they made the right choice, it also would have made the “rewards” feel like rewards rather than feeling like there are no good choices.

Ok, serious question.
Are rares and exotics being removed from the loot tables that include these unidentified gear kits?
Because this makes all of the difference.
I am operating under the assumption that they are NOT removed from these loot tables?

Yes, if you salvage the items you do not get ectos or anything else you get baseline mats, if you sell the item you do not get a rare/exotic price for them. You get a blue/green price for them. That is why we are objecting. ALL of the unidentified id’s are blue/green until id’d.

Svartwolf.3729:

I actually tend to click “sell junk” by accident while trying to sell runes -_-

Likewise! It happens more than I care to admit

ClockworkRaja.1732:

You can always toss them into the forge

I guess you could and perhaps it could be amusing but I dunno the 16c does add up eventually (kidding)

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

How about a mastery to automatically give you the coin value of green sigils and runes when you would obtain them from salvaging? I’d prefer that to this disaster of an ID system.

I like this idea as well it would be a good start right?

BoogerSammich.7189:

Ferelwing.8463:

JaddynnStarr.5201:

BoogerSammich.7189:

Ferelwing.8463:

BoogerSammich.7189:

This mechanic saves bag space.
I don’t see a downside.

Except they could have saved space by just giving us all bags or tokens or pretty much anything else that didn’t require us to first complete a heart, then pay extra to id all that loot that we just worked to get.

Ferelwing.8463:

Except they could have saved space by just giving us all bags or tokens

The bag system is both a part of the economy, and a game mechanic. It has always been present, and always will be. Same as in any other MMO I’ve played. Also, there are tons of ways to get bags without spending gold.

Ferelwing.8463:

anything else that didn’t require us to first complete a heart

Again, hearts are a core game mechanic. No-one is “required” to play the game.

Ferelwing.8463:

then pay extra to id all that loot that we just worked to get.

There is no need to ID the loot. You can simply salvage the unidentified gear, or sell directly to a vendor.

you are right, there is no REQUIREMENT to id the loot, but if you DONT ID it, you lose out on any opportunity to loot an exotic or rare item that can be sold or salvaged for a much higher profit price. Now you MUST pay to get a chance at an exotic or rare, that you would NATURALLY HAVE GOTTEN without having to spend money to ID it.

basically what has happened is, is Anet wants to make us pay for things we already were getting for free(minus cost of salvage kit of course…). That cost is counter productive. Say you pay 1s 68c to id a piece of gear and it turns out to be a blue tier piece. Then you pay another 68c or 1s 20c to salvage that into a mat you can use(cuz the gear is useless to you otherwise or you can sell it for 1s to a vendor). You receive 2 mithril ore from the salvage. So now you have payed 2s 40c – 2s 90c to get 2 mithril that’s worth 60c. Congratulations… now you’re paying 2s 90c for 2 mithril, worth a total of 60c…. enjoy your cake sunshine!

or the alternative is to just salvage it outright and never have another chance at getting an exotic/rare/pre-cursor drop ever again… your choice.

Thank you! That exactly describes the situation. You can either risk paying 2s 40c- 2s90c for something worth 60c OR you can choose not to see an exotic/rare/pre-cursor drop for as long as you are in the new zones. Neither of those choices feel like good choices.

Im sorry, but I think this argument is incredibly weak at best.
The basis of your position rests on these presupposed, theoretical drops coming out of these unidentified gear kits.
The argument here is based on pure conjecture.
You are upset about not getting something that you already do not have, and that does not exist.
If you apply this logic elsewhere, it’s like saying that every time you salvage a rare INSTEAD of throwing it into the Mystic toilet, you are somehow being robbed of the chance to get an exotic back because you didn’t get the chance to roll on it, because you salvaged it instead.
This logic is entirely circular, and will only lead back to itself.

Furthermore, you are assuming that rare and exotic drops will not come from ANYWHERE else and that identifying green gear kits is your only opportunity to roll on this gear.

Im sorry, I am REALLY NOT trying to sound rude, but this makes no sense to me.

Look, the issue I’m having here is simple… If the problem is inventory space then take the RNG to another location give everyone a token for blue/green/rare/exotic/precursor level gear and have us go to a vendor that tells us what token we’ve got no fee, just see the guy who explains it, if they wanted they could have made it a mastery.

With the Mystic forge you know precisely what will happen when you put 4 items in and it doesn’t cost you anything to put those items in. You have a very low chance of getting anything cool but it’s still there and if you want to risk it you can, at the same time it costs you NOTHING (the stuff you’ve got that you’re using you earned or bought on the TP for that purpose). Having something that used to be free and innate taken away to “save space” is a step backwards.

The only circular logic I’ve seen thus far has been the logic used to explain why this isn’t a regression in game-play and why this isn’t a problem but a “feature”. There were better ways to solve the problem of space. Perhaps having a Mastery point that gave you a magic bag that never ran out of space that you could put into your inventory or perhaps something that turned each of those items into a token that you went to see a vendor for RNG to take place there and you could “retrieve” the items that your tokens set you up for then salvage etc… All of those would have still granted “knowledge” without setting people up to wonder whether or not they made the right choice, it also would have made the “rewards” feel like rewards rather than feeling like there are no good choices.

BoogerSammich.7189:

Ferelwing.8463:

JaddynnStarr.5201:

BoogerSammich.7189:

Ferelwing.8463:

BoogerSammich.7189:

This mechanic saves bag space.
I don’t see a downside.

Except they could have saved space by just giving us all bags or tokens or pretty much anything else that didn’t require us to first complete a heart, then pay extra to id all that loot that we just worked to get.

Ferelwing.8463:

Except they could have saved space by just giving us all bags or tokens

The bag system is both a part of the economy, and a game mechanic. It has always been present, and always will be. Same as in any other MMO I’ve played. Also, there are tons of ways to get bags without spending gold.

Ferelwing.8463:

anything else that didn’t require us to first complete a heart

Again, hearts are a core game mechanic. No-one is “required” to play the game.

Ferelwing.8463:

then pay extra to id all that loot that we just worked to get.

There is no need to ID the loot. You can simply salvage the unidentified gear, or sell directly to a vendor.

you are right, there is no REQUIREMENT to id the loot, but if you DONT ID it, you lose out on any opportunity to loot an exotic or rare item that can be sold or salvaged for a much higher profit price. Now you MUST pay to get a chance at an exotic or rare, that you would NATURALLY HAVE GOTTEN without having to spend money to ID it.

basically what has happened is, is Anet wants to make us pay for things we already were getting for free(minus cost of salvage kit of course…). That cost is counter productive. Say you pay 1s 68c to id a piece of gear and it turns out to be a blue tier piece. Then you pay another 68c or 1s 20c to salvage that into a mat you can use(cuz the gear is useless to you otherwise or you can sell it for 1s to a vendor). You receive 2 mithril ore from the salvage. So now you have payed 2s 40c – 2s 90c to get 2 mithril that’s worth 60c. Congratulations… now you’re paying 2s 90c for 2 mithril, worth a total of 60c…. enjoy your cake sunshine!

or the alternative is to just salvage it outright and never have another chance at getting an exotic/rare/pre-cursor drop ever again… your choice.

Thank you! That exactly describes the situation. You can either risk paying 2s 40c- 2s90c for something worth 60c OR you can choose not to see an exotic/rare/pre-cursor drop for as long as you are in the new zones. Neither of those choices feel like good choices.

Im sorry, but I think this argument is incredibly weak at best.
The basis of your position rests on these presupposed, theoretical drops coming out of these unidentified gear kits.
The argument here is based on pure conjecture.
You are upset about not getting something that you already do not have, and that does not exist.
If you apply this logic elsewhere, it’s like saying that every time you salvage a rare INSTEAD of throwing it into the toilet, you are somehow being robbed of the chance to get an exotic back because you didn’t get the chance to roll on it, because you salvaged it instead.
This logic is entirely circular, and will only lead back to itself.

Furthermore, you are assuming that rare and exotic drops will not come from ANYWHERE else and that identifying green gear kits is your only opportunity to roll on this gear.

Im sorry, I am REALLY NOT trying to sound rude, but this makes no sense to me.

Apples to oranges here… You know that when you put 4 objects into the MF you might get something cool but more often then not you’ll get 1 item of the same kind and you don’t PAY to put them into the MF, you’ve already gotten said items. No one is under any kind of illusion that it’s efficient (which is why we all call it the mystic toilet) but you also know that when you salvage that rare you’re more than likely going to get an ecto at the very least. That ecto is worth it and you can also sell that on the tp for someone else who is trying to get ecto.

The demo allowed some of us to actually try to calculate the drop rate (there’s a link in this very thread if you’re interested) while none of us know what the eye of Kormir is worth, the overall drop rate wasn’t that amazing for rares/exotics/pre-cursors but either way there were losses.

I would like to be given the innate choice to decide whether or not something is worth my time. Currently I know the value of all the pieces I get immediately and I do not have to pay anything to find that out (I can check the tp from my inventory immediately without having to first do a heart nor pay the fee). The added “step” is what I object to. For the record, I don’t gamble on the MF either because I like making informed choices. The ONLY time I combine things in it is on dailies or when I have items from dungeons that are already account bound and I have nothing to really lose (and if you combine items from the dungeons that are account bound you can sell what comes out of the mystic forge so it’s actually a win).

BoogerSammich.7189:

Ferelwing.8463:

BoogerSammich.7189:

Ferelwing.8463:

BoogerSammich.7189:

This mechanic saves bag space.
I don’t see a downside.

Except they could have saved space by just giving us all bags or tokens or pretty much anything else that didn’t require us to first complete a heart, then pay extra to id all that loot that we just worked to get.

Ferelwing.8463:

Except they could have saved space by just giving us all bags or tokens

The bag system is both a part of the economy, and a game mechanic. It has always been present, and always will be. Same as in any other MMO I’ve played. Also, there are tons of ways to get bags without spending gold.

Ferelwing.8463:

anything else that didn’t require us to first complete a heart

Again, hearts are a core game mechanic. No-one is “required” to play the game.

Ferelwing.8463:

then pay extra to id all that loot that we just worked to get.

There is no need to ID the loot. You can simply salvage the unidentified gear, or sell directly to a vendor.

The crux of it is this, the entire time this game has given us fully id’d loot that we got to choose the fate of. It the problem is that people didn’t have space in their inventory because it consumed them then give us something that will fix this. Having us spend money to id something that we worked to get feels bad.

It doesn’t feel like a good choice regardless, if you choose to sell the items to vendor sight unseen you will always wonder if perhaps there was a rare/exotic/precusor in that group. If you choose not to and all you get are greens and blue’s then you will feel like you wasted money.

NONE of those are good answers.

The excuse you are making is that it saves inventory space, they could have done that without the “pay to id” mechanic.

Well, perhaps we can use this opportunity to make suggestions to make the system better?
For example, the unidentified gear definitely addresses the bag space issue.
However, it does come with the caveat that in order to ID the gear, you need to spend currency.
What if there were an alternate currency that could be used to buy the ID kits?
Or, what if the ID kits could be obtained at a discount, or maybe even free?
For example, perhaps a mastery line that once unlocked would allow you to obtain the ID kits for like, I dunno a copper or some trivial amount?

Again, I think the system is pretty good at addressing the inventory issue.
I also don’t feel that there is a problem with spending currency to ID the gear.
I still believe that salvaging or selling the gear are both valid options that don’t require anyone to spend anything.
I view the ID part of the system as sort of a gamble, for “theoretical” better loot.
I see it as a “pay for a chance to get something better” type of mechanic.

But again you’re paying to get something that you used to get for free… If they wanted to fix the inventory issue for those that really care about it perhaps they could have had a mastery “line” that locked them up into something else (maybe tokens that you could redeem later etc)rather than having everyone switch to a system that now locks the content away from you by default and gives you three choices that feel equally bad.

You’re not able to make an informed decision when you don’t know what it is you’re looking at and it’s a regression to have something that you used to have for free disappear behind a paywall. While I thought in my suggestion in another thread that having a mastery to auto-id would be nice, it once again puts you back to the problem of inventory space and no matter how you look at it the system takes away something that you used to have innately.

It would make better sense for them to come up with a different way of handling it. Paying to ID is a regression, having a mastery to auto-id something doesn’t fix the inventory space issue and is still a regression (if you used to have things id’d innately and then you have to get a mastery to once again have things id’d innately then it’s a redundancy and really shouldn’t exist).

Like I said, having bags or tokens or something else could have solved the inventory space issue rather than putting the player-base into a situation where there are no good choices.