Guild Wars 2

Vayne.8563:

Gwilym.4257:

Vayne.8563:

Djinn.9245:

Raine.1394:

For those unsure of the game genre in use when playing HoT I suggest the following exercise. I use the word exercise but it is not hard at all.

1. Google with search term platformer game
2. your first hit will be the wiki for the platform game genre. Game genre is by definition and luckily the wiki uses the standard definitions.
3. The first sentence of the article reads: “Platform game (or platformer) is a video game which involves guiding an avatar to jump between suspended platforms and/or over obstacles to advance the game. These challenges are known as jumping puzzles or freerunning.”

There. That wasn’t hard at all. The key aspects to gameplay in a platform game are 1) navigation of platforms, and 2) advancing the game thereby. Vanilla GW2 with jumping puzzles was an MMO not a platformer. You could navigate platforms all day but you were not advancing the core game. An example of advancing the core game is arriving at VB and discovering that you need both gliding and updrafts to begin advancing the core game.

The problem is not having elements of platforming in GW2. Jumping puzzles were absolutely brilliant. You could knock youself out with them and have a ton of fun. At the same time Player X could ignore them and derive their fun from standard MMO aspects of the game. Brilliant.

And, for the last comentator here, it has nothing to do with game “difficulty”. Because the full genre here is ‘platformer obscura’ you can’t figure anything out except by brute force as in trying every possibility. Brute-force and skill-based are at opposite ends of the spectrum. This is why the first jump by a skillful player is always to youtube to find out the remaining jumps. What about brute force is going to make the gameplay fun?

Well said, thank you.

You don’t have the experience with platformers, so why wouldn’t you just accept the experience of those who do platform? You’ve never played a platforming game by your own admission.

A jumping mushroom isn’t platforming. When those definitions were written, they were written in a vacuum. Stuff like jumping mushrooms that require zero skill to use didn’t likely exist at all in any game.

This game isn’t a platformer, and saying it does won’t change that.

As Raine mentioned above game genre exist in their respective definitions. If you were to follow the steps in Raine’s post you would arrive at a definition of ‘platform game’ or ‘platformer’. Not because you or Raine know enough for the rest of us to stop thinking, but rather, one of of you (Raine) took the easy path of chasing down the definition for the rest of us. You actually don’t need to hunt down someone who claims to know what they are talking about, and you don’t need to trust the wiki as any gaming site will have same basic definitions.

Platforming is so basic that it lives inside of two definitions: 1) navigation of platforms, and 2) advancing the game thereby. It doesn’t say anything about level of skill, but it’s typical to the genre to modulate difficulty over time.

Platform games are platform games not because enough people know enough about gaming that they don’t need to ask what a platformer is, but rather, they know because they’ve learned the definition of the gaming genre. Read Raine’s post as he/she lays it out for you.

But by that definition you’ve given Guild Wars 2 has always been a platformer, even more than HoT is. It’s that simple. You can’t have it both ways.

The major complaint people have about the platforming in HoT is that they can’t complete zones. By this definition you’ve always needed platforming to complain zones, as in from launch.

So either Guild Wars 2 has always been a platformer, or Guild Wars 2 is not a platformer.

Their definition its’ always been, my definition it’s never been.

The takeaway from this is HoT didn’t turn Guild Wars 2 into a platformer. You need more jumping and more skill to complete maps pre hot than you need in HoT itself.

I don’t want it both ways; one definition to rule them all! GW2 was never a platformer and never a platformer by the stated definition of a plaform game. Remember 2? That went: “2) advancing the game thereby.” That is, advancing the game through platforming. Platforming (jumping puzzles, etc.) in vanilla GW2 was always take it or leave it—the core game didn’t care if you platformed or not. In HoT you advance the game through platforming. Don’t know how to break this down further for you; my process has always been to read the English and understand the concept expressed. Maybe someone else could jump in here.

Vayne.8563:

Djinn.9245:

Raine.1394:

For those unsure of the game genre in use when playing HoT I suggest the following exercise. I use the word exercise but it is not hard at all.

1. Google with search term platformer game
2. your first hit will be the wiki for the platform game genre. Game genre is by definition and luckily the wiki uses the standard definitions.
3. The first sentence of the article reads: “Platform game (or platformer) is a video game which involves guiding an avatar to jump between suspended platforms and/or over obstacles to advance the game. These challenges are known as jumping puzzles or freerunning.”

There. That wasn’t hard at all. The key aspects to gameplay in a platform game are 1) navigation of platforms, and 2) advancing the game thereby. Vanilla GW2 with jumping puzzles was an MMO not a platformer. You could navigate platforms all day but you were not advancing the core game. An example of advancing the core game is arriving at VB and discovering that you need both gliding and updrafts to begin advancing the core game.

The problem is not having elements of platforming in GW2. Jumping puzzles were absolutely brilliant. You could knock youself out with them and have a ton of fun. At the same time Player X could ignore them and derive their fun from standard MMO aspects of the game. Brilliant.

And, for the last comentator here, it has nothing to do with game “difficulty”. Because the full genre here is ‘platformer obscura’ you can’t figure anything out except by brute force as in trying every possibility. Brute-force and skill-based are at opposite ends of the spectrum. This is why the first jump by a skillful player is always to youtube to find out the remaining jumps. What about brute force is going to make the gameplay fun?

Well said, thank you.

You don’t have the experience with platformers, so why wouldn’t you just accept the experience of those who do platform? You’ve never played a platforming game by your own admission.

A jumping mushroom isn’t platforming. When those definitions were written, they were written in a vacuum. Stuff like jumping mushrooms that require zero skill to use didn’t likely exist at all in any game.

This game isn’t a platformer, and saying it does won’t change that.

As Raine mentioned above game genre exist in their respective definitions. If you were to follow the steps in Raine’s post you would arrive at a definition of ‘platform game’ or ‘platformer’. Not because you or Raine know enough for the rest of us to stop thinking, but rather, one of of you (Raine) took the easy path of chasing down the definition for the rest of us. You actually don’t need to hunt down someone who claims to know what they are talking about, and you don’t need to trust the wiki as any gaming site will have same basic definitions.

Platforming is so basic that it lives inside of two definitions: 1) navigation of platforms, and 2) advancing the game thereby. It doesn’t say anything about level of skill, but it’s typical to the genre to modulate difficulty over time.

Platform games are platform games not because enough people know enough about gaming that they don’t need to ask what a platformer is, but rather, they know because they’ve learned the definition of the gaming genre. Read Raine’s post as he/she lays it out for you.

I bought HoT and would again for gliding and Ranger pets. However, I don’t enjoy platforming into obscurity with annoying mobs nipping at my heels so I don’t play on any maps beyond the Silverwastes. You would literally have to pay me to play HoT. I am hoping that something of the original inspiration for guild wars survives at Anet and that they will one day return to make something worthy of the franchise.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Gwilym.4257:

I hope that, with the next release, they get together and determine what made GW2 beautiful and insanely great. (Hint: There will be no platforms to navigate outside of non-core game jumping puzzles.)

One of the things that made GW2 great at launch for me was ANet being willing to experiment outside the core game puzzles, jumping or otherwise.

I really like BF. It’s got interesting lore, visuals, climate zone transitions, foes, event chains, and I love the the new gliding skills. It’s a tiny zone so far, so I’m not going to spend most of my time there anymore. But it’s closer to the GW2 I think is great than a lot of the core zones are.

One thing that made GW2 great at launch for me was Anet’s assurance that navigation of platforms (platforming) would not be used to advance the game. That is, jumping puzzles (platforming at that time) were there for those who enjoyed them but could be avoided altogether by those who did not. From Dry top on, and especially through HoT the thing that really distinguishes the game is it’s reliance on platforming (and obscure platforming at that) to advance the game.

I’m all for jumping puzzles, SAB, etc. It’s just not my cup of tea. And, experimenting with the game is fine with me. It’s just that making the game an obscure platformer is not an experiment I would want made.

There is a reason why financial planners IRL never advise clients to gamble in order to increase their wealth (resources, general well-being, whatever). Games are no different than RL in this regard.

I hope that, with the next release, they get together and determine what made GW2 beautiful and insanely great. (Hint: There will be no platforms to navigate outside of non-core game jumping puzzles.)

I’d recommend Ranger as it can do high damage at maximum range (1500) with the longbow. Necro is actually tankier and does great damage but to eke out high damage you’ll need to go in and out of melee range which tends to be a bit more active in terms of play style. Dodging will be generally necessary regardless but with a ranger at max range there will be less of it and the pet will draw aggro for the most part. I use a Razer Naga mouse and have dodge mapped to the 10 key on the mouse which is where my thumb naturally rests. For me, this makes dodging feel very natural and available and reaction time is fairly instantaneous.

It should be possible to play effectively with disability and I wish you well.

Edit: In terms of build you can use this one until you have the elite spec: http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Ranger_-_S/A_LB_Spotter. It relies on the longbow and you can hang out in it without paying much of a price in dps.

And, as with any gambling, the odds are that you will lose. You will hear about winners just as you can read about people winning lotteries around the world. But the odds are you will lose every time. If gambling were a good way to invest money you would see it recommended by financial planners. It isn’t. And, it isn’t a good way to invest resources made in a game either.

Squee Squashington.5189:

Horizontal progression is the illusion of progression, people who support it are a large part of the reason this game is not towering over others at its full potential.

That said, gaining experience for masteries was not what was most annoying, it was acquiring the points to be able to purchase each tier. Sure at first you’re able to unlock the early tiers just by playing through the expansion but eventually it becomes this grindy egg hunt, forcing you to play aspects that you really don’t care for. People justify it by saying, “Well you only have to do it once.”

This game was founded with the principle of “you can play the way you want” and it was said that this expansion was not going to be grindy..

Fool me twice..

Character progression is a given in MMO’s and must occur. So, there’s the choice between horizontal and vertical progression. It’s actually VP that’s the illusion and let me run that down for you with an example. In WoW, when I started, I had ~15k HP. Several expansions later I had 500k HP. Now, you must be thinking, you had become a God. You must now one-shot everything and never die. Nope. Everything was the same at 500k HP. Mobs took just as long to kill and I died just as quickly. You see, in the meantime all the other players had treaded the mill to 500k HP and all the mobs I was fighting had become 500k HP. The only thing that happened was that I rode a very long, very grindy treadmill to get to where I already was. It’s actually VP that provides the illusion of progression.

Horizontal, otoh, provides something lasting. Let’s take a skill like gliding. Once I have gained the skill, through horizontal progression, I have something that I didn’t have before and something that will never be taken away from me. That’s the basic rundown on progression. VP provides an illusion of progression, HP provides actual progression.

That said, in order to have play it your way, horizontal progression must occur as a result of playing the game. Two months ago I had 9 mastery points. In the last two months I have completed 3 ascended sets of armor (light, medium, and heavy) and several weapons. I have killed innumerable bosses and advanced 5-6 characters on their way to map completion, etc. I have played the game everyday…my way. And, I have the same 9 mastery points I started with.

Basically, horizontal progression simply isn’t happening for me and that’s the failure of Anet’s implementation of it. It is possible to have a horizontal progression system that goes nowhere if a players playstyle doesn’t match a developers notion of play. My basic principle is that reward should come from playing the game. It shouldn’t be possible to play the game religiously and not move the bar of horizontal progression.

If I were designing new content I would make it available (in terms of access) to players. But, that’s just me.

Agree with the OP here. Once I had gliding the only thing HoT was for was getting the pets for my rangers. I can’t begin to describe the feeling of relief and well-being I always felt upon getting back to the beautiful non-obscure world of Tyria. HoT is hell.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

I get that some people just like their alts. I’m unclear, however: if you like your alts to the tune of over six dozen… what’s wrong with buying a second account?

Yeah, I have two accounts. However, while account-bound items are often the boon of the altoholic, having multiple accounts is sometimes therefore the bane.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Maskeus.2396:

My guess is that it won’t increase the maximum amount, as it’s just telling you how many times you can make use of the sale price.

But I have to ask. What are you even using 70 character slots for?

Some of us just like our alts.

Yes, and it can be viewed positively or as a personal problem. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. I must /bow to the OP though; I only have 26 max level characters across two accounts.

You lost me at being very, very happy with HoT. As one who is not a fan of platformers obscura, I’m not. But yeah, as Central Tyria begins to run out of things to do, the game is getting less and less fun.

I’m a vanilla player (have HoT, prefer gw2) and I’m sitting at 9 mastery points. I would prefer that reward, in this case masteries, comes from playing the game and it certainly isn’t for me.

And, there are vanilla players who don’t enjoy the platformer GW2 has become. It would be great to expand reward and play opportunities in vanilla GW2.

I groan too when I see a HoT daily. I have HoT but you’d have to pay me irl money to get me to actually play there.

I simply don’t do the dailies that require completing them on a HoT map. I purchased HoT but after getting gliding have no desire to play there at all.

I pretty much hang out in Rata Sum in HoT. And, while having HoT, I avoid it like the plague. Here’s hoping the next expansion gives us something to play and places to hang (though it will continue to be RS for me).

I’d prefer the low risk option: do nothing. I’m really enjoying my necro as main right now and fear any “improvements” to the game.

If you don’t mind looking the Logan wannabe, T3 cultural heavy is actually a good looking set. My misanthropy goes far beyond the armor. The picture I have in my head is my guardian taking a dump when activating Empower. All the human animations character appearance, and character navigation are subsumed under that one ability.

I think the Norns function well as an archetypal conceived and implemented character. You can build them as a non-flabby muscled beast and I have a couple matching this description. The problem comes in for me in actually playing one. There lumbering gait burns me out in the course of one play session.

If you buy any of the unlimited use items for anything but convenience you are doing it wrong. I don’t think the break-even point will be in my lifetime. But convenient they are and I have one for each slot. And, the watchwork, because it returns sprockets is BiS. But, the sprockets return is not going to make you rich. In the grand scheme of things it will be entirely insignificant. So, we’re back to the convenience. Man, are they convenient. (They really are.)

Regardless, I would get the expac for gliding alone if you want to otherwise play the game. Maybe a couple hours max to get gliding. I also would consider things like map completion as basic to the game.

As a vanilla player (don’t enjoy HoT) this would leave me with little to do. One thing I would like to see is just waypoints become accountwide. Another game I played added this as a QoL enhancement and it was huge.

I don’t believe the answer is surface skills. Just fix it so there are no dead spots where you are stuck in surface mode.

The major problem I have with the trait system is the elite spec. It, in most cases, is required which never should be the case for trait lines. In the case of the Druid you have a non-ranger archetype successfully competing with the archetypal ones. I would like a reworking of traits to deal with the elite spec. I don’t know if that is moving to four lines but I agree something should be done. My rangers are not happy.

HoTophobia. I’m certainly not afraid of it per se. I bought it and would again for gliding and Ranger pets. That accomplished, a goal of my play is to never to find myself on a HoT map. I don’t notice it much except when the maps are included in the dailies. On those days I don’t complete the dailies.

HoT is simply a different game than vanilla GW2. You can argue its merits and it’s fine to like it. It is not the game I originally purchased and love to play. I do hope they reconsider the direction they have chosen for the game and at least throw a bone (HP’s?) to those who love playing GW2, but don’t like HoT.

I’m guessing OP hasn’t been around from the beginning as the broad themes don’t really match up with the actual history. They certainly have talked about polish and aspects of the core game but that was never the focus; and, that lack of focus on the core was an issue for many in the early days. Instead, their focus was content delivery on a mad scale that has never been attempted before: monthly releases of major pieces of content. Now, many players are software developers who realized that they couldn’t possibly do this. And, of course they couldn’t and the core game suffered for this. What we got was episodic story-telling that was gone with the telling. No expansion of the world, no permanent change to Tyria. The expansion was an acknowledgement that they couldn’t evolve the world in the manner of their original choosing.

What we see in the management of GW2 over time are developers attempting to learn from their mistakes. No grand plan, success, or failure.

Yeah, you must have an account if you’re posting. Perhaps your question is on HoT as opposed to vanilla GW2. I would say HoT is worth it for gliding alone. It’s one of those gamechanger QoL enhancements that you really don’t want to be without. And, if you play a ranger the pets available in HoT are worth it. That said, I don’t play in HoT maps (beyond getting gliding and pets) and I wouldn’t buy HoT for the maps. I’ve played WoW for years but really prefer pre-HoT gw2.