’Evening and welcome back.
It’s all a matter of preference, on ele most weapon sets are viable!
Your first 5 skills and therefore your style of play will change based:
- on the weapon you have at hand(s)
– the attunement you’re in (the 4 elements icons on the top left of your skill bar – hotkey F1 through F4 by default)
The idea is to 1/ pick up the weapons that suits you playstyle and 2/ once in combat switch attunements to access the skills you need.
As for playstyle:
- Staff = range with spells that affect large area. Quite static but very powerful
– Scepter = medium range; very useful against single targets.
– Dagger = melee = very dynamic.
Then it all depends on what you like!
Watching your spells wreak havoc from a distance? Go staff
Getting in the heat of battle, casting spells and swapping between attunements like crazy while dodging and rolling around? Go dagger
Hope you’ll enjoy ele. Don’t hesitate to try different builds to see what playstyle you like the best. The class can get quite complex but to get things started it doesn’t require too much to have fun
Just put it under the waiting for players… announcement thingy at the top.
Might have to tweak the UI to accomodate for the other 2 icons though.
I wasn’t too sure if you were serious or not but reading your last post i believe you are a gigantic troll:p:p:p:p:p
Gg though for the bait! i should have listened to the gentleman below one page ago
while stomping everything like I was a lvl 40 in a level 1-10 zone.
Ok, I’m calling bunk on the OP’s entire story. First, he’s decided in just two hours from his first post that the games just not for him. He’s already complaining at lvl 9 which takes all of 30 minutes to get to. Then this quote, how would he even know what a lvl 40 would be like?
I call bunk, this is a mocked up story.
Separating queues is a heavy design decision that impacts
- players pool
– queue time
– team composition: can you teamQ with 4, 3 or 2?
– players networking / exposition to teams: by mixing solo and teamQ good solo’ers can be spotted more easily.
In terms of matchmaking, the issue is the algorithm, not the splitting of queues, ie: mixing solo’ers and teams shouldn’t impact your chances of win.
In terms of ladder and leagues though, that’s another topic.
Not sure how things will work out, but I think we’ll get two ladders at least, one for solo and one for teams.
But, 1/ will the top leagues be populated by players playing as teams only and therefore confining the solo’ers to “sub leagues”?
And 2/ do players playing as teams also progress on the solo ladder (because if so, then the top spots in both solo and team ladders are most likely to be the same!)
I think, really, that GW2’s leveling experience is a lot more about exploring and getting to know the world than it is conquering it.
The Pope’s right here boys.
Explore, discover, enjoy all the activities that contribute to leveling (crafting, jumping puzzle, activities, events, collections…).
Don’t go into a MMO PVE open world expecting to find a dark soul or a dragon age origins type of challenge (I mean come on, MMO PVE open world!)
And if combat is your thing, I suggest to find a class whose mechanics and fighting style you enjoy, get your teeth in the game, then go wear your E-thug hood in PvP or WvW. You’ll find plenty of hard content over there:p
Now. One thing though.
Despite all its qualities, gw2 may lack a sort of “wow, I’m hooked, can’t take my eyes off you factor”. But there is not much we can do to help you here. It’s all about tastes and the designers doing a good job:p
(edited by Hugs.1856)
Just came across a glitch that might have caused me some unintended dishonor (provided dishonor is turned on).
Started a ranked game queue on my engi, euro server, then noticed I was lagging badly – not sure my internet or the servers-, so I left the queue, and swapped char to my ele to pve in the meantime.
The moment I got in game with my ele, the queue I thought I had left popped… So I swapped back to my engi, but the queue disappeared by the time i logged in again on engi.
Happened twice in a row, but might be due to the lag to be honest. Just putting that one out in case.
As for the issues, I have with the 16/12 patch:
- Queue time feels longer than say last week
- Matches are usually not too far off in terms of score but the quality seems worse: players seemingly deprived of map awareness or even the basic tactics. Good news is that it seems to be the case for both the enemy and my team.
- I fear there is not much sense of progression with the current point systems and that there is still probably a balance to find between the wide swings of MMR and the tiny points we gain/lose at the moment.
Again, all of these are just feelings as i haven’t played too much.
For the record I soloQ on weekends European time and used to be on he higher 95%/bottom leaderboard.
Before the patch, matches were quite often one sided and while I still have the occasional blowout now (gotta love courtyard), the scores seem much tighter and match quality feels better too.
Congratulations on the improved match making but above all for the competitive and server infrastructure!
The more I think of it, the more I’m inclined to believe that Anet had to rebuild things almost from scratch in terms of pvp infrastructure and that what happened with the TP (last minute addition, non optimised and not ready for growth) plagued pvp as well.
I am very surprised of such an oversight as it seems the pvp designers spent more time on combat, maps and esport blabla rather than on infrastructure, which is probably why the pvp development has been so painfully slow…
Hopefully you guys can adopt a much more reactive and flexible approach now and deliver more regular updates:p
I just find it funny that gw2’s marketing team went on rampage pre-release with that e sport crap, when there was nothing to advertise for (literally).
And now that there is an embryo of infrastructure (ladder, ESL weekly, then monthly, quarterly wts) along with a clever learning curve (practice, play, compete) and a potentially great match making, they just keep quiet:p :p :p :p :p
I didn’t post the link for the sake of nostalgia but to highlight how professional and engaging the promotion of Gw1 was almost 10 years ago, when e sport was just an exotic Korean passion.
And I’ll be very curious to see what sort of production will come out of that wts when comparing to the Leipzig documentary:p
Well, let’s see if they can best what they’ve done 10 years ago:p
I’d suggest to use a different brightness for the red and green color. The current ones don’t stand out too much in my opinion.
And what about moving that ready button to:
- just under the “waiting for players” (probably make it a one line only though that reads “ready up” and “unready”)
- in the score screen
I also don’t know if it’s a matter of time before i get used to it but i find the score screen:
- too small and too compact
- colors that make it hard to read
- the cross/tick for ready not clear
I would suggest to show the stats by default on that screen by teh way instead of the rewards and why not both actually.
Even though the current stats are minimal, displaying them by default every time the score screen pops up will contribute to smoothen the learning curve.
Could someone enlighten me about the recent changes of price on the following items please?
I only know the basics in that new patches shake up supply and demand but don’t have a full understanding of what is actually happening.
1/ Mithril ore : it was about 70c back in august, collapsed to 30 in sept and seemed to have picked up around 50 but now seems to drop again.
2/ elder wood: was around 70c in August, dropped to 13 from sept and seemed to have picked up at 23 now
3/ t4 mats (I think they’re t4: large gangs, large claws, potent venom…). They used to trade above 4s in sept but dropped to 2s50-3s now.
Thanks for the insight:p
Exotic gear is easy to get for dedicated players and even easier for hardcore players like you seem to be.
And while it is great to have a “smooth” vertical progression, it probably was too smooth before ascended gear and the metrics probably hit the red button with players leaving due to the “what to do now?” syndrome.
In your case, I suggest you try going for ascended gear.
Not because I’m assuming you’re a grinding oriented type of player. But because the way ascended gear acquisition is designed.
There a multiple ways to reach ascended gear so you will discover multiple aspects of the game that you may not have had the time to find out or fully enjoy during your first 2 week.
Having said that you have to have some attunement with grinding and it gets worse with a legendary:p
I think the overall pvp population is pretty large to be honest. It’s the number of full 5-man teams playing regularly that is probably quite thin:p
But even if you assume the players’ pool to be small, that’s exactly the reason why you want to merge teamq and soloQ. I mean if the total’s small already why further reduce it by splitting the player base?
Splitting the player base is a heavy design decision and should only happen if:
1/ there is no cannibalisation phenomenon between the parts
2/ the players’ pool is actually too large to feel a sense of progress.
On the other side the main advantage you get from merging the queues:
1/ better chances to have balanced matches (assuming the pairing algorithm is robust enough)
2/ more contacts with “direct proof of skills” between teams and players, which greatly increases the odds of finding teams and networking.
3/ shorter queue times.
Now.
Where Le kitten is the team ladder after 7,5 years of development:p :p :p
Two and a half years down the road and here we are! It’s so close now, it almost hurts.
Gw2’s pvp is finally about to come out of beta!
With the long awaited design of a competitive infrastructure, the game might now actually have a shot at being competitive.
What a ride :p:p:p:p:p Congratulations to all the PvP team and special thoughts for J.Sharp who stayed on until this patch.
I am genuinely hyped and really can’t wait for the update.
I also take some (unjustified) pride seeing that most of the ideas I advocated came to be. But most of all I am really curious to see if this patch will pave the way for the game’s success competitively wise.
After all, so far, gw2’s pvp was more of a case study on how to fail the sequel of one of the most acclaimed and solid pvp game ever created, how to destroy a community and a vibrant proof of how designing a fun game was far superior than aiming for E-sport.
Let’s turn the tides now! Test the system, read the metrics, add in a team ladder, smoothen the learning curve and rock on:p:p:p
I never understood the story behind season 1 to be honest. It just seemed a patchwork of Zerg fights with a few hints as to who’s the bad guy and what’s his motives then and there.
So I must say that the pilot of season 2 is a massive leap forward in that respect:p starting easy with an instance avoids the overwhelming feeling and let’s each player enjoy the story at their own pace. It is well balanced between dialogues, fights and explorations. So good stuff indeed.
I am just a but disappointed that the writing is still very much “marketing driven” and doesn’t feel very natural, but at least it gives something to the characters (even if this something could be more subtle rather than a punch line that sounds as if it was aimed to please a certain category of customers)
Anet was very bold with its design decisions and challenged the core conventions of mmos. Let’s hope the writing steps up and delivers a story as original and well constructed.
I played quite a few soloQ matches in 2 weekend sessions, probably around 30 or so after a long break. I used to be in the above 95% bracket in soloQ and I played euro time day/night.
Out of these 2 sessions, 1 was a long losing streak (the kind that can make you lose faith in mankind) and the other one a nice winning series. As for the quality of the matches, I would say that a good half of them were one sided, one way of the other, and not very interesting. Therefore I would be inclined to say that:
1/ if you’re good you’re going to carry the team and make a difference in your team’s performance.
2/ but your individual skills matter less than the original gap of skills between the 2 teams.
The problem here is that the quality of the matches (as opposed to just the result) is decided by a pairing algorithm that leaves too much room to luck (or so it seems based from my plays).
The question isn’t if you can make money outside of the tp (of course you can and most players will be happy with what they get)
The question is as a game designer, do you think it is healthy for your game to have flipping being the most efficient way to earn gold in a game where gold is, or will be the unique currency?
To all the apprentices in game design and Economics:
In a game where gold is the only currency (upcoming patch), how healthy is it to have flipping being the most efficient way of making gold as opposed to playing through actual content?
Except that you don’t balance a game based on forums reactions:p :p :p
Anet would be horrible designers if they complied to every single vocal minority.
They probably have accurate metrics with reference value on some key indicators: dps by distance, burst damage within secs, amount of damage negated by sec, health gained by sec… That’s the basis on which hey should balance the game.
The real issue is when the theoretical value doesn’t match the reality of the gameplay. For example there was a time where wars were very ok but no one played them. So the devs listened to the community and came up with silly boosts.
To prevent this from happening and to have a much healthier game, the best solution is to smoothen the learning curve and bring up the general level of skill. That way, the gap between theoretical power, how the class feel and how it is actually played narrows down and makes balancing much more relevant.
Gw2 pvp never had its chance to be honest. Only a handful of people actually understand the game and how it’s played but they were turned off by the lack of competitive infrastructure. But next to them you have house de of players who have no clue as to what to do/dodge.
Have fun balancing anything, let alone the complexity of having three games modes, PvE, WvW and pvp so different!
Don’t forget the overall pvp picture.
When you take a step back, the real question you want to answer is:
what is the ideal pvp infrastructure for both casual and competitive players that enables them to play with 0 to 4 friends and has a smooth learning curve?
Wall of text incoming, brace yourself. It is pretty cool and super robust because it covers the overall system.(very modestly:p :p)
1/ revisit the pvp initiation.
This one is a major overhaul and the answer to the learning curve. I’ll just throw in some guidelines:
- teach players about builds: stun breaker, condition removal, gap closers and cc used both offensively and defensively, stats thresholds.
- teach players about pvp combat: duel every class with slow motion animation of each skill with explanations as to what it does and how to counter it (including downed fights).
- teach players about game mode mechanics: no need to be 2 to cap, mini map awareness, when is the best time to kill bosses…
Ideally all of the above can happen on demand:
- when you visit the mists for the first time
- whenever you are in the mists and want to train
- when you are in a real fight and want to understand what happened. ( this third part is crucial and probably the hardest the implement)
2/ casual play
The current hot join system is cool and it can only get better if you integrate the above initiation phase into the fight itself.
3/ competitive play: solo players
After players hit pvp rank 20, if they only played hot joins before, prompt them if they want to join arenas with explanation on the reward and the matchmaking.
Repeat every 5 rank gained if they still never tried arenas.
Apart from that keep the current solo arena system and keep working on what you mentioned already: more intelligent matchmaking, adjusted MMR depending on how experienced you are with a class, leavers penalty… Don’t forget to integrate the initiation phase to solo arenas as well.
4/ competitive play: groups
Groups can be 1-5 players playing together or real teams. Real teams are registered as such for each season while groups are just players grouping together.
Simple groups function as they do now in team arenas.
To register a team you need to fill in:
- team name
- team tag
- nationality (country, continent, region)
- at least 5 players accounts. One of them being the captain.
Team system:
- 1 account can only belong to one team at a time
- team hierarchy in terms of rights: sponsor>manager>captain>Member
- you can only swap teams a fixed number of time during each season (once or twice if you leave on your own, a bit more if you get kicked or disband the team)
- disbanded teams disappear from the ladder and reset the count of match participation to the season.
- only players who played a certain amount of matches during the season get rewarded.
- the reward depends on the team’s position on the ladder when the season ends.
Matchmaking system:
- real teams and simple groups are in the same pool, meaning they can face each other (in order not to split the player base even further)
- the system prefers to have teams face each other and groups face each other though.
- the matchmaking for teams is based on their ranking in the ladder
- the matchmaking for groups is based on the average personal MMR of each member of the group.
- teams gain and lose more rankings on the team ladder when facing another team.
- each participant in the team also gain and lose personal MMR
- if three players or more belong to the same team, they automatically play as this team.
- if three players or more play 15-20 matches per week under no tag team at all, then they cannot play again unless they form a team or they wait the next week.
5/ competitive play: tournaments
- every month, there is a tournament for teams only.
- Specific rewards for top 16. From top 16 onward, matches have a greater impact on the team ranking than normal season. Not too drastically though so that regular season matches are not insignificant.
- any team that is 1 week old can enter the tournament.
- if there are too many teams, split the tournaments into leagues (based on teams’ ranks in the ladder)
(edited by Hugs.1856)
IMO, the most exciting part of a pvp game is the sheer joy of competition and all the talk about games, teams, players, dramas, tournaments… Rewards come after pride, they’re nothing but the cherry at the top.
1/ what is arena net’s take on this? Do you acknowledge this aspect of the game? Is it something you think is crucial for the success of Gw2? How do you understand your role as a developer with regards to that “concept of competitive pride” and more broadly speaking with regards to fostering passion, commitment and a true sense of community?
2/ why does it feel like the WvW community is much more committed to the game than what is left of the pvp players? What do you think prevented the creation of the team/guild spirit in pvp, although it turned into a real esprit de corps in both WvW and gw1’s GvG?
3/ having answered the above, what drove the decision of not having meaningful ladders 18-24 months after the release plus 5 years or so of development?
Pvp never really took off because of:
- combat system itself – pace of the game mainly
<snip>
- does the pace of the game allow for clutch moments along with some more """""quiet"""" ones?
<snip>I think if you’re discussing game modes it should be hand-in-hand with a discussion of the pace of the combat, as the action mechanics determine the scale of the fights. I’ve long suspected that then reason the devs chose Conquest as the main game mode is because they realised that the game is great for smallish fights, but full-on team fights are so fast-paced, chaotic, and drowned out in particle effects, that they become an indecipherable.
I also think one of the reasons the combat system and conquest were chosen is because it’s really not conducive To full, long and repeated team fights. The way gw1’s combat system and GvG mechanics worked could lead to 30 minutes stale fights.
To prevent this they decided to tilt the combat system toward a much more aggressive style: no dedicated healers, lack of death penalty, powerful skills that decide encounters if they’re not blocked/dodged/blinded/interrupted (coupled with the removal of the casting bar to make these skills even deadlier).
On top of this, they made sure that the game mode would always lead to """""""tactical""""""" moves to get the illusion of dynamism and that matches would naturally end without the use of an artificial mechanic (the current point systems vs old vod)
While it’s all well thought out, the implementation is quite poor IMO. The aggressive combat system leads to a game that is waaaay too fast for the majority of mmo players.
This is not a fps with headshots and only guns. Where’s the fun in a mmo to die in seconds because you didn’t recognise the skills used against you? Where’s the depth of team coordination when you don’t have time to lay down an offensive and defensive plan but rather you’re struggling to react instantly to a one shot skill combo?
As you said any game mode they come up with has to take into account the (too) fast paced combat system. Hence my fear that adding new game modes won’t solve the other issues:
- lack of competitive structure
- combat system and the fast pace and the visual mess
- learning curve that makes the game horrendous to learn and stick around
- lack of incentives for PvE and WvW players to play – rewards or the mere facts that nothing naturally leads to the mists-
Pvp never really took off because of:
- lack of competitive infrastructure
- combat system itself – pace of the game mainly
- learning curve, along with lack of incentive for PvE players to play pvp or even go to the mists.
- game mode
To be fair with conquest, we don’t know if it was the main reason that turned players away of pvp. So adding new game modes without an improvement on the other areas could lead to a worse situation: no more popularity for pvp and a split player base.
Having said that, the absolute lack of any strategical or tactical talk for over over a year is a good hint of the depth of conquest:p :p :p just like the fact that the game is played exactly the same as launch, with only one major move discovered, the party stealth opener.
A good game mode should meet some criteria in my opinion and an interesting part of the conversation could be to come up with a sort of checklist of these criteria. I’ll start off with a few examples:
- is it solo friendly? Team friendly?
- Is it simple enough so anyone can hop in, get a decent grasp as to what to do and have fun immediately?
- is it complex enough to allow for ultra competitive play both solo and team?
- does it have enough secondary mechanics and are they impactful enough so that each game offers a wide variety of strategies?
- does the pace of the game allow for clutch moments along with some more """""quiet"""" ones?
- does the game mode mechanics allow for fair come backs? Rather than the losing team pulling a trick and end up winning without really outplaying the opponent?
- does it promote both collaboration/synergies between players and team spirit (which are two different things IMO)
There are probably quite a few more of these criteria, but I think a good game mode should at least meet those ones!
1/ Competitive infrastructure
2/ Pace of the game
3/ Learning curve
There’s no denying the innovative spirit that drives you guys. What you’ve done overall is nothing short of an industry landmark.
The risks you took, the design decisions you made and the way you organised your process flow is remarkable given the money at stakes.
However I can’t help but cringe when I hear you guys talk about collaboration when it comes down to pvp.
You purposefully discarded gw1 players’ feedback because you wanted something new. As a result, you threw away both the good and the bad from one of the most acclaimed pvp game ever.
You also drove away the hardcore gw2 pvp fans because you failed to achieve the one thing the community wanted and needed to strive: team competition. If instead of focusing on 3-round tournaments, free and paid tournaments and all that esport nonsense, you worked on a team ladder from the start, you wouldn’t have to worry about bringing players back now…
Long story short, there’s hardly any wide scaled collaboration in pvp because there is no foundation for a pvp community: no incentive for teams to play competitively.
The main issue with conquest is that it does not promote team spirit.
- the lack of full team fights doesn’t create a “team spirit” as strongly as say a GvG(especially gw1’s). The cohesion doesn’t feel the same: instead of fighting all together next to each other, you do your individual stuff.
It directly impacts the community imo, as we can see with the increasing popularity of GvG in gw2 while tPvP is on the decline for competitive teams. Gw1 had a wonderful and amazing community thanks to this team spirit by the way.
- the team effectiveness is diluted into individual highlights. Scoring points is usually the matter of 1-2 players at a time, so even if each member is working toward victory the feeling is not the same.
- the lack of death penalty removes the excitation of key moments and fights where the team really feels they must give their all or lose.
By trying to blend fps and mobas into a mmo, gw2 loses what made gw1 the greatest pvp game ever: team spirit.
I won’t deny that the reliance on guilds/teams was too extreme though (you basically couldn’t anything without a group). But moving in the opposite direction is just as silly. All the flaws I’ve just listed are actually design decisions purposefully made because Anet wanted something “cool” to watch.
So rather than going for esport with an easy to understand mode based on points, try to design first a game mode that is solo-friendly while still heightening team spirit when competitive teams get their game on.
I guess the real question is why you guys didn’t plan out the necessary architecture to deliver pvp updates quicker?
I remember a dev saying that in order to not disrupt the flow of connections during an update you guys planned the “update architecture” right from the start and this is thanks to this early preparation that it was possible.
Now, why didn’t you do the same for pvp?
Or maybe you are actually happy with the pace of development, and you think it’s ok to have made all these silly claims about esport and still have no competititive infrastructure 1 year later.
Your pvp population may be growing but I’d be very surprised if the number of full 5-man teams was actually on the rise:p :p :p :p
Hot joins are non-rated matches. They support matches from 1v1 to 8v8 and the only thing to be won is glory indeed (and as of a consequence pvp levels). Because of this, they are intended for casual play or testing new builds.
SoloQ is called solo arena in this game. They are 5v5 games exclusively (let alone leavers and dc’s:p :p :p). As the name implies you cannot play with a friend in theory. But the main difference with hot joins is the presence of a ladder and a matchmaking system that matches you with and against players so that games are balanced (once again in theory:p :p)
You also have team arenas that allow you to play with friends (1 to 4). They work pretty much the same way as solo arenas but have their separate ladder.
Competitive infrastructure.
Come on it’s been a year now, don’t you think it’s time for some competition to emerge?:p :p :p
Not only is it hugely beneficial to the players it also helps developers to understand how the game is played. Without competition and teams pushing the system to its limits, any game balance or other change will be done without knowing the part of l2p and what is actually an issue.
The more competitive the game is, the more reliable the data is for devs to adjust the game. And the more fun we the players have!
The game’s too hard indeed but certainly not because of conquest.
The learning curve is atrociously steep because:
- the build system is too complex
- you don’t know why you die
To make a good build you need to find good synergies between your skills, optimise the game mechanics your build is based on via traits and reach thresholds with your stats.
To understand why you die you need to recognise every animation from every profession and identify the ones that hit you.
Now, having said that, good luck to every beginner:p :p :p :p
There is 0 in game tutorial, 0 tip tool on CC and stun break, 0 combat log, 0 indication on minimum stats, 0 training area. All has to be done by the community but I have yet to find a comprehensive guide for beginners!
Let alone the fast pace of the game!
(edited by Hugs.1856)
It’s been 2 years now, if not more, that people have been complaining about the fast pace and the visual mess of the game:p :p :p
At least the devs finally reckoned- months ago- that the particles effects were a real issue rather than a mere learn to play curve…
As for the fast pace, I just hope they realise there’s a balance to be found between an action rpg and a fps, and that gw2 has always leaned more toward the latter.
Dynamic combat is great but not at the expense of understanding team fights and thus team play.
Hopefully this tournament and its exposition will speed up the “fix”…
how you would feel if you dedicated most of your time to something that people constantly bash.
A bit of an easy dodge isn’t it?
I’d say that most of the bashing, once stripped off of the Internet nerd rage, actually holds some valid points.
Also, there is no denying the incoherences with which the game was designed.
1/ you wanted an easy to understand game accessible to everyone and simplified skills but the fast pace of fights, the visual mess of team fights, the complexity of the build system and the absolute lack of info on what killed you make the learning curve awfully steep.
2/ you wanted an esport but the fast pace and the particle effects make it a chore to watch and shout cast any game. Why do you think Grouch keeps repeating “looks like” “it seems” or “I guess” all the time? Why do all shout casters struggle to comment on team fights (except when the action slows down with rezzes?)
3/ you wanted a community driven pvp but denied all competitive infrastructure for months and months. 3 rounds tournaments with no matchmaking? Paid tournaments? No team ladder? Custom arenas that support only one game at the time? No obs mode?
You guys wanted to try something new with gw2, fair enough, I’ll always have the deepest respect for people willing to take risks and go in new directions.
But that new road you’re building, it’s full of holes. Holes you made yourselves and still haven’t fixed:(
What they’ve done right:
Gw1’s Combat system and GvG.
They proved the mmo industry that innovation was still possible in AAA titles.
(Now whether these innovations are actually a boon or a mascarade is another story:p)
What they have done wrong:
Dumb down the teamplay from gw1
Provided no competitive infrastructure for almost a year.
Aimed for e-sport
From the few games I played last night around midnight uk time, I won half but none were exciting to play (either way).
I just hope Anet is monitoring the scores as well as the results when evaluating the MMR:p
I’d wish the devs acknowledged that the best fix to solo players facing full teams isn’t splitting the queues but a better matchmaking algorithm:(
- Team ladder separated from solo ladder
- last played date visible
- rating adjustment based on class for solo players only: the least experience you have with a class, the lower your rating is adjusted to.
There is teamplay, but as it’s been said, it’s a fps-type kind of teamplay.
Lowering the pace of the game and the visual effects would be a huge step in helping teamplay and spot the areas that need rework.
It’s a tribute to the old infamous linebacking from gw1:p
What about the sheer excitement of competition?
I suggest you (finally) make up your mind on the competitive infrastructure rather than giving out carrots:p
They commentated fireworks for 6 hours straight, haha.
Give them some rest: depth will come with experience and once the pace of the game + visual effects get toned down.
You seem to be an intelligent person Motoko, but you are so pedantic it makes your posts look silly:p
There is no competitive scene in gw2 right now because there is no infrastructure for competition. There are top teams, but that doesn’t make a competitive scene.
It might change with custom arenas, but for 7 months we had nothing. And you don’t grow a pvp community out of nothing in one month. Let’s hope the guru tournament initiates the growth.
Also, with maybe the exception of Motoko and a few other hardcore fans, most of us do not want a remake of gw1. I’d even go as far as to say that we are happy with gw2 combat.
Our main concern is the lack of team interaction, which is due IMO to:
- the pace of the fights
- the visual effects
- skill design
And the reason why we’re referring to gw1 all the time is because GvG found the most unique and amazing formula for all above 3 points, it was the pinnacle of team play.
And because we care about gw2 we write all this hoping the devs read us and acknowledge that gw2 can be improved (with some gw1 elements we hope!!)
(edited by Hugs.1856)
The way I read it is that these 2 people did not design the game but were in charge of the operations and the art.
I think the designers who actually worked on the combat are izzy and Jon peters. I don’t know if chap was already in the team though.
However I wouldn’t be surprised if the 2 co-founders left arenanet because of gw2:p I remember there was a time in 2008 when we were told gw2’s development was going a complete overhaul.
I didn’t quite realise it at first, but now it’s pretty obvious gw2 was designed with esport as the primary goal – sadly.
All the visual effects, the simple skills, the point system, the conquest mode, the emphasis on solo actions it’s all because the game needs to be easy and enjoyable to watch for anyone who picks it up.
The worst thing is that they even failed to do it:( gw2 is a mess to watch and the learning curve us atrociously steep.
But that aside, I think it’s okay to have some complexity and there is no need to oversimplify everything in the name of accessibility.
I mean how many of us loved radiohead’s in rainbows the first time we heard it? But after a few tries, you have to admit it’s a beautiful piece of music and to this day very very enjoyable to listen to.
Unlike pop albums that are easy to listen to but bear no interest after a while.
Always take the audience higher. Do not lower to them.
The only exciting trinity so far is the one from gw1’s GvG.
It is made of:
- protection (and not healing)
- shutdown
- damage (driven by melee)
I know Izzy, lead designer on gw2 and the brain behind gw1’s skills, has been given a lot of crap throughout the years but what he accomplished with gw1 will probably make history:p
I think the people who want GvG back are as blindsided as the esport bees.
As much as I loved GvG I do not want it back. I very much respect arena net for adventuring in unexplored lands game design wise.
It’s absolutely essential for the industry that big devs who have the support of massive companies try something new.
However I am absolutely baffled by their refusal to integrate and adapt gw1 core elements that made the pvp so great.
The protection/shut down/damage trinity and skills designed on trade offs (frenzy) and that would only trigger under certain conditions (bull’s strike) are the real strength of gw1.
My guess is that the devs are very aware of what made GvG amazing but they thought it would be incompatible with an esport game.
And I absolutely despise that kind of thinking. They are willingly and purposefully taking the fun out 90% of the players to give it to shout casters, pro teams and the players who prefer watching streams than playing.
Designing a game to be esport introduces a gigantic bias in every single design decision. The priority is not the fun and the depth but the accessibility and how exciting it is to watch.
Well conquest entirely revolves around capping and bunkering. That’s pretty much the only way to play the game.
To win you need points and the most efficient way to get points is to cap and keep.
GvG wasn’t based on points – endgame mechanic aside like lord damage. It relied on a qualitative objective: kill the lord. It was then up to the players to chose how to reach that objective.
In the end of the game players got lazy and just enjoyed the beauty of 8v8 flag stand matches. However split manoeuvres weren’t rare at all and many cool moves were made/discovered in the later years:p
Gvg had a freedom that no other pvp game ever had, there was basically only one rule: kill the lord.
Anything else was irrelevant and didn’t mathematically contribute to be victory.
You could take half of the enemy team out by repeatedly killing them, it didn’t make you closer to victory in the way the current point system does.
GvG was really unique in that regard, you had so many ways to approach a match and play it because there was no best way to win.
Conquest tunnels you into capping and holding tactics. It has great synergies with a point system, which the devs wanted because of esport blabla- but it’s nowhere as deep as GvG.
I don’t mind it too much though. What’s really bothering me is the absolute mess of team fights and the lack of deep interaction between team members.
These majors issues are inherent to gw2 design IMO since the game was built upon 2 paradigms – among other:
- you should be able to play solo
- the game has to be understandable by anyone who watches it (esport blabla again) and therefore much emphasis needs to be put on the visual effects.
Only time will tell if such constraints are impossible to overcome or not to have a fun and competitive pvp game.
(edited by Hugs.1856)
If you strip down conquest to its core benefits, it is actually a very strong mode:
You are rewarded for outplaying your opponent: points for killing, node capped/uncapped
This one time advantage wears benefits overtime : 1 point /3 sec per node, 15 sec re spawn.
Until the opponent outplays you.
It is “fair” because if you’re dominating the whole match then the other team has very little chance to come back.
It is exciting because if the opposite plays better -and I mean really better, not just a single move of genius/luck- they can come back at any time.
As for the absolute boredom to keep a point, it has to do with this esport thing again: just like goalkeepers don’t do much until the enemy strikers come, it’s alright to have players doing nothing between action-packed moments.