Guild Wars 2

Um, mighty blow is a gap closer even if it is 300 range. Retaliation is pretty strong, and if someone puts down a fire field and we do have a fire combo field we can put down called Hallowed Ground and another called Purging Flames.

Also the longbow kit aside from pve where I played it the most is pretty good, I never really needed to use most of the skills on it however and only needed the auto and true shot. Without high crit chance the likelihood that it will crit is next to nothing. But, I still see it as a pretty viable option for a ranged dps weapon, its sure as hell better than the scepter.

Whirling wrath you can cancel pretty easily. You can also fill in the cast time of Mighty Blow with something like JI to apply fire if your running the increased damage to burning targets as well as do damage to them. (even if it doesnt teleport you forward it still can be used as a cast time filler). True shot being ranged, rooting the guard, and probably only using dodge to cancel it, I feel the damage is fine where it is.

If your just going by the numbers as it shows on the tooltip then no one should really listen to you, just like others saying “longbow is crap” without explaining how it is which I seen a lot of, shouldnt have their feedback even looked at. In pve dragon hunter was SO safe it made some encounters feel absolutely boring.

If you guys dont like it, dont play it. No one said you needed to be a dragon hunter. Dragon hunter was meant to, at least how they explained specializations early on, fill a void that the profession was missing. Next might be a condition specialization even though people have already gotten like 40 stacks of burning which is pretty kitten good.

I really dont see the problem with the specialization other than some people dont like it. I for one love the option.

That doesnt mean that the core of the profession is flawed. The build would function without a trait like fast hands. Its just that quicker weapon swaps and adrenaline gain from it is powerful so why wouldnt you take it? The warrior isnt poorly designed at all and its builds actually make quite a bit of sense.

The build im thinking about with the guardian using a single trap and being melee with 1h weapons and shouts makes sense at least to me. The revenant however just makes absolutely no sense at all. Its like they just grabbed stuff off the shelf and threw it together not thinking of how things would interact with just the weapons and legends. Weapon swapping was said to help it but I dont think it has. The class is limited in its choices so the profession is confusing. One condition legend, one condition weapon set sooo what else is there in the base profession to help with that? Nothing that I can see. What about ventari? Its supposed to be paired with the staff which is melee, or at least thats how it was shown and the way ventari works is so counter productive to being melee since you want to see who would need the tablet in the group. Unless everyone is just going to stack up then there isnt a problem with it, but then why be able to move it, just make it something that shows up on your back and moves with you.

The revenant wasnt thought through entirely and like I said the only fun I had was a damage build with staff and jalis hammers, everything else just seems unfinished.

Well they are still mesmers, just like reapers are still necromancers and so on and so on. Its the same with the rev. You have to pick up a certain trait line to pick up herald so it doesnt matter that it was created while the class was being developed. If the majority of the builds revolve around one minor trait then its poor design.

So then the specialization makes the profession? Thats some pretty bad design if you ask me.

It just seems to me nothing really links up. It seems as though things that were created before them adding weapon swapping are completely out of place. There isnt much customization at all from what I can tell. I dont know if im completely missing something, but it just feels like a thrown together class without any idea of synergy between different weapons and legends.

Every other profession out there has this theme about them, weapons sets and utilities match up pretty well though the theme of the class as well as function. Ventari feels like you should have an overall view of the battlefield and if your in melee with the staff which it seems that legend was designed with using the staff in mind, you have a limited view of everyone. It just seems out of place but I also might just completely be missing something. I was also just using this as an example.

Something like the guardian however has roles that it feels like it can fulfill melee support, midranged support, long range dps, melee dps and so on and the utilities can then be tailored to those weapon sets. It feels like it has more synergy within its own kit.

If im missing something please let me know. But just reading everything, the legends, utilities and weapon sets nothing it clicking for me.

So what exactly do you guys want? I hear bow is crap, traps are crap, blah blah blah… so what do you guys want to see? I think it makes encounters pretty kitten easy to deal with and is actually pretty good so saying everyone is complaining about it is entirely wrong.

The thing I found is the defenses are basically not there. Make GS 4 move with the player not be put on the floor for someone to just run out of. Ive been trying out valk gear but the cast times are so long for the necromancer that it becomes hard to dodge things. I dont know if it was a latency issue or dodge not stopping these long casts for whatever reason but i found myself being hit by most of the hard hits. Spam dodge while channeling something like gravedigger to dodge a charge, dodge not going off and still getting hit by the charge is frustrating.

For a spec that specializes in groups of enemies the defense abilities just arent there. GS number 4 isnt reliable and chill doesnt do enough to be worth anything unless your vuln stacking. Ive seen 10k crits with RS 4 and 7k gravedigger crits. I think GS needs to be slightly quicker in cast times and it would make the GS feel so much better. I dont really see any problems in RS other than signet of locust not working in it so if you want constant movement speed you have to also pick up the movement talent for DS/RS.

I might look into going axe dagger with my offset. Get some range and reliable condition removal+ blind and weakness application (at least for pve which is what this post is mainly about).

It needs some tweeks, i like the concept though. What do you guys think if gravedigger had a short range teleport on it? You teleport and then start to channel gravedigger… I think it would be pretty cool at least even if it doesnt happen.

What I see from this post…

AHHHH I WANT TORMENT ON EVERY WEAPON!

Scepter, dagger, staff… whats next locust swarm applies torment as well? Choose something that you want torment on and stick with it, dont say everything needs it because it doesnt. What needs to happen is fix condition application. The necro went from the kings and queens of condition application and manipulation to being pretty poor at it. Everything doesnt need torment, does it sound fitting, sure, but more conditions isnt the solution to the condinecro problems.

We dont need a melee condi weapon though with chill damage talent with the greatsword its kind of coming. We need to get one set that works first than looking to put conditions on everything to make the problems even worse.

From my experiences so far I am having a pretty fun time with the Revenant. I havent tested everything yet and want to get a feel for what I do and dont use with what im currently playing with.

I see a bunch of people suggesting that the legends should be played with certain legends. While I feel this is true with conditions, I dont really feel it with ranged and melee damage. I have been having an absolute blast with Staff and Jalis/Ventari while staying in the dwarf stance the majority of the time.

I dont use the staff number 2 much at all mostly because its a little awkward, not in its use but in its purpose. I would think that the staff number 2 first use should have a block mechanic or something if you are able to time it properly and the second use, since you get a block on the first, should be buffed in damage slightly and take the weakness off, or change the second portion of the skill. Its a cool concept that works I just dont think it hits the mark.

Everything else about the staff is pretty good. Once all the damage starts rolling in from all the hammers, being in close range, able to basically carry someone with Surge of the Mists its pretty devastating.

The visuals of the healing orbs from the AA is a little harder to see, i would increase the size of the orb visually as well as the orb that orbits around you from the trait Swirling Mists.

The hammer number 3 I think could possibly use a second active. If you activate it while in the air you travel to the location instead of porting back and make it so you have a longer cd if activated like the guardian staff orb. This way you have some sort of reliable escape and not just a knockdown which has a pretty long cast time. This would give a little more decision because making the right decision is a good thing.

The animations are really good, and the gameplay is fun to me. A few little tweaks and number adjustments would in my opinion round out the class.

Oh yeah, on the topic of visuals, could you guys fix the leg of the human female? While standing idle the foot goes outwards while the leg goes in. Its very noticable with pretty much all boot skins. Now would be the perfect time to fix it since there is a new expansion.

Conski Deshan.2057:

Lets solve this once and for all.

I as a customer do not feel the current deal is fair and want to change it, which is what some of the player-base is currently trying to do.

OP’s opinion on this is irrelevant to this, A-nets opinion is irrelevant to this , all that matters is that I feel it is as such and as a customer / potential customer it is perfectly within my prerogative to attempt to negotiate a better deal.

No one said it isnt, and ANet doesnt have to agree to those terms. If you dont agree on the pricing thats totally fine, your opinion.

Straylight.7529:

stof.9341:

An item value has usually little correlation with it’s price. ANet can only decide the item price. When ANet says the core game is given for free, anyone should know it’s bs and it’s actually paid for somewhere.

But it is for free. How can you not see that? If it’s paid from “somewhere” then tell us where that somewhere is.

stof.9341:

Now the issue is that the core now is exclusively sold as a promotional gift when you buy HoT. Now, people (should) start asking : “if core is given for free, who paid for it?”

No one. It’s given for free. FREE

stof.9341:

And since veterans do NOT receive a core GW2 from that purchase, in fact, they get nothing at all other than HoT, they easily come to the conclusion that they are the ones paying for it. And thus they get angry.

No it isn’t. I’m a veteran and I pay 50$ for HoT and that’s what I get. The new players also pay 50$. Everyone pays the same. My money is not being funneled to the new players.

No one pays for the free core game. If you are a veteran you already paid for it years ago. If you are a new player you only have to pay for HoT and get the core game for free. It’s that simple, really.

Hes saying that the veterans paid it so that since they paid it they should get something in return. Which I totally disagree with. We paid for what we paid for, the profits on those items went for this gift. It might not be free in the sense that everything has some form of cost, even picking up dirt requires a cost of energy, but once the money is in ANets hands they can use that profit as they see it.

Maugetarr.6823:

Jongi.7612:

Maugetarr.6823:

Jongi.7612:

Maugetarr.6823:

Look, I’m fine with the price if I could automatically play all the content on my current account if I buy the expansion. The thing is is that I either have to buy a character slot or delete one of my characters if I want to try out the revenant, which is part of HoT content. Alternatively, if I decide to not attach HoT to my account, I could get 5 more character slots to play the revenant and bank tabs, easily worth over $50 through the gem store. The “free” game still has value to veterans which is a major sticking point. If I got a free character slot in the expansion, I probably would have ordered it already.

In fact, marketing missed out on a way to sell themed bundles. If they had gone and done basic (1 char slot), adventurer (char slot + bank tab + other stuff advertised), and explorer (char slot + bank tab + crafting material expansion + other stuff advertised), selling it as a way nice convenience bundle and marketing it as you stocking out to explore all the new facets of the game, I probably would have picked up the top bundle instantly. $50 + revenant fees makes me hesitant.

You dont have to dish out money for that character slot though. You can buy it with gold so its free. The only thing you would have invested in it is time, not money.

My time is worth a monetary amount actually. If I’m forced into repetitive tasks I don’t necessarily want to do in order to use part of the game already I paid for, the time used to collect gold for that specific purpose could be given a real world monetary amount.

Just because the revenant is going to be released doesnt mean you have to play it. Its your choice to play it, and if time is money then you better pay up for that character spot. You didnt get all the space to play every class in the first place, why should this be any different? You paid for those classes right? So why not say we should actually have 9 character slots instead of 5, or in your case 6?

I just wanted to include that I actually have 13 character slots, and all of them are full. I did buy them with real money because I believe in supporting people and companies I perceive as valuing me as a customer. I still buy actual CD’s from bands I like to support the artist. This, to me, is locking a feature behind a secondary paywall which I don’t appreciate. It’s as simple as that. I’m obviously not going to convince you to see it from my point of view and vise versa because this is an argument over the feeling of perception of how a company has treated a long time customer. It feels like I’m being charged extra for something given to someone else for free.

Its not locked though, the revenant is just being released as a playable profession. If you dont have room for it make room. I can understand that having multiple necromancers can be appealing due to cultural armor, animations and what not. What I would suggest, if you havent already, is to play the revenant in the beta to see if you would actually want it. If you want 1 of each class no matter what, well then you have 3 options that I can see, delete a duplicate, buy another slot with either gold or real money, or just sit there and wait and see if ANet gives out another slot. There really isnt much else anyone can suggest.

Make a suggestion, which I wasnt expecting a new character slot anyways since they are sold on the gem store. I can understand why people might of thought they would, but I wasnt expecting it in the least.

stof.9341:

Straylight.7529:

So? What is it you’re trying to say? You can give Arenanet more money if you think GW2 or HoT is worth more than 50$. Just buy gems.

An item value has usually little correlation with it’s price. ANet can only decide the item price. When ANet says the core game is given for free, anyone should know it’s bs and it’s actually paid for somewhere.

Now the issue is that the core now is exclusively sold as a promotional gift when you buy HoT. Now, people (should) start asking : “if core is given for free, who paid for it?”

And since veterans do NOT receive a core GW2 from that purchase, in fact, they get nothing at all other than HoT, they easily come to the conclusion that they are the ones paying for it. And thus they get angry.

You can put all the arguments of the world you want, this is basic human behavior and this is something some guys at ANet should have predicted if they didn’t sleep through their marketing classes.

As for “giving” ANet money, you know what? I was completely going to do that. When I saw HoT was $50 my first reaction was that the expansion pack itself was overpriced but I didn’t care too much because, meh why not? I got good enjoyment of GW2 and might even get good enjoyment of HoT. In a sense, since I valued HoT at less than $50 but was ready to buy it anyway, I was going to make some free donation to ANet.

But then, the unfairness of the new player deal and the lack of a required char slot just turned me off the purchase entirely.

The only person asking “who paid for it” is you. Its just game code and the time investment of creating that code could of been paid for several times over already so they decided to give it as a gift with another purchase. If my money from playing the past 3 years (on and off) goes to increasing the number of people playing, which can lead to more armor skin sales and more content, im fine with that. If your not then dont support them anymore. Is that a good enough answer to your “nothing is free” argument?

PandaBear.7510:

This is how I feel on the matter:

The HoT expansion is priced at $50. This is JUST the expansion. Not the expansion + the core game. HoT is an expansion of the core game, not “the new version of the core game”. ANET themselves clearly make this distinction. So for me personally, just looking at what I have been shown so far, I do not yet feel that HoT has $50 worth of new content when compared to what I received when I payed $50 for the core game. But this is besides the point. HoT costs $50 on it’s own BUT the core game comes with it for free for new players. Because you are getting two things for the price of one, this is a package deal. And it is an extremely good deal for anyone looking to get into GW2. This honestly makes a lot of business sense as it will make it much easier for new players to get into the game.

Now, here’s the thing though. It is a fact that the HoT expansion is a package deal because it comes bundled with the core game for free. The core game, in it’s original form, before any living story updates or any of the additions that ANET has made to it since it was initially released still holds a lot of value and is totally worth $50 imo. That is a lot of content: The original PVE tyria maps, all the dungeons, WvW, PvP, all the current classes, etc. Now whether or not a player has been enjoying this content for the past 3 years or starts when HoT is released is irrelevant because either way the same “base” (meaning, what shipped when the game initially came out) content will be accessible. The main difference is that I payed $50 for all that content. Which means that the total costs for me is then $100 while any new player only has to pay $50. This is why, from a value perspective, it is a very good package deal for any new player. But for me, as someone who already has the core game, i’m not getting that same value from the package for the SAME price. Now if ANET were offering an “upgrade” option for 10-15$ less or at least including a character slot with the standard version for existing players I wouldn’t have any issue. It’s not that I feel that I’m entitled to anything, I just don’t think that the current packages/pricing is fair to existing players.

I fixed it for you.

Pretty Pixie.8603:

Jongi.7612:

Why exactly do some of the veteran players think ANet owes you anything? I see a lot of vet players understand that nothing is owed to them, but the vocal majority of vets here on the forums think something is owed to them.

The expansion is $50 bucks, end of story. If you dont already have GW2 and you buy HoT you get it for free. Its so that it brings in more players.

Veteran players have already gotten their fair share of free stuff, living story which if these new players want to experience they have to pay for, free level 20 boosts for being active during the anniversaries, free skins, free level 80’s if you didnt waste your tomes, and who knows what else was given out.

So what exactly are you guys complaining about? Its just like these spoiled kids that didnt get the car they wanted, or the 64gb iphone and rage at their parents. Its stupid and I hope ANet sticks to their guns.

The ONLY people that should be kittened off are the people who bought the core game recently and now have to dish out another 50 for the expansion in turn making the expansion more expensive. Give them a free skin, gems or something. Everyone else has gotten their monies worth from the game.

If you think you are owed something because you have been playing for 3 years and new players get the core game for free to increase the size of the community that is the exact definition of entitlement.

If you are still asking what people are complaining about you haven’t been paying attention.

And please stay away from calling people that have supported this game for years entitled. It’s wrong and polarising. We paid for previous content, often far beyond that.

Calling people out for feeling that they’re not getting value for money is not on.

I know WE have, im a veteran playing since you havent read my post even though you linked it. The issue post isnt about not getting your value out of HoT, its thinking your owed something just because you have been playing for 3 years which a lot of people here on the forums think. I have been playing for 3 years I should get x number of gems or y number of character slots.

At the end of the say HoT is and unless ANet changes it, will be $50. If people dont think that the content in HoT isnt going to be worth it thats valid, dont buy it. But if a character slot or something is the only reason why you arent buying it, then the content isnt the reason, you want something for nothing.

stof.9341:

Straylight.7529:

But that’s not for you to decide. It’s arenanets decision (or NCsoft I guess) how much they want to sell the content for.

Arenanet thinks the right to play those core game files is zero once HoT releases. Why do you have a problem with that?

ANet decides the price, but WE decide the value. GW2 core has value, quite a lot too. Even more if it’s an old account compared to a brand new.

And you dont have to buy it, no one is forcing you to buy it, no gun is held at your head or anything. If you dont think its worth it dont buy it.

stof.9341:

Jongi.7612:

You dont have to dish out money for that character slot though. You can buy it with gold so its free. The only thing you would have invested in it is time, not money.

Just, please XD There is no such thing as a free lunch. Opportunity costs etc… https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunity_cost

Do you really have no notion of economy at all? :’(

What about the good old saying, “time is money” ?

If i want to pick up some dirt and give it to someone, no one paid for it. Its a gift, from the ground. Lets say I paid someone to create a game, its going to be free to play with a shop like league of legends. I pay the guy out of my own pocket and give everyone I can the game for free. That is called marketing and getting your name out because the store can make up the difference. When you increase your customer base you increase your income, or you fall. This is just marketing, they are saying “Come play our game, if your new dont worry, just purchase the expansion and enjoy the world with your fellow players” is a good choice.

Yes I paid for the making of the game, blah blah blah, but its no different than them wanting more people to play.

Maugetarr.6823:

Jongi.7612:

Maugetarr.6823:

Look, I’m fine with the price if I could automatically play all the content on my current account if I buy the expansion. The thing is is that I either have to buy a character slot or delete one of my characters if I want to try out the revenant, which is part of HoT content. Alternatively, if I decide to not attach HoT to my account, I could get 5 more character slots to play the revenant and bank tabs, easily worth over $50 through the gem store. The “free” game still has value to veterans which is a major sticking point. If I got a free character slot in the expansion, I probably would have ordered it already.

In fact, marketing missed out on a way to sell themed bundles. If they had gone and done basic (1 char slot), adventurer (char slot + bank tab + other stuff advertised), and explorer (char slot + bank tab + crafting material expansion + other stuff advertised), selling it as a way nice convenience bundle and marketing it as you stocking out to explore all the new facets of the game, I probably would have picked up the top bundle instantly. $50 + revenant fees makes me hesitant.

You dont have to dish out money for that character slot though. You can buy it with gold so its free. The only thing you would have invested in it is time, not money.

My time is worth a monetary amount actually. If I’m forced into repetitive tasks I don’t necessarily want to do in order to use part of the game already I paid for, the time used to collect gold for that specific purpose could be given a real world monetary amount.

Just because the revenant is going to be released doesnt mean you have to play it. Its your choice to play it, and if time is money then you better pay up for that character spot. You didnt get all the space to play every class in the first place, why should this be any different? You paid for those classes right? So why not say we should actually have 9 character slots instead of 5, or in your case 6?

Ephemiel.5694:

I love how Jongi is telling people to drop it when he STILL hasn’t provided proof that everyone is being entitled and just want something for free. Sad.

This whole thread isnt proof enough? What about all the other forums? What proof are you looking for exactly? The only thing that is really apparent is that you guys are salty because you see someone is getting core game files when they purchase HoT.

quaniesan.8497:

look at that, Mr. Anet’s personal guard is all ganged up. No that I feel sorry. Here’s a little tip: next time, when people are trying to protect your interest (i.e. calling out Anet’s screwups), don’t bark back at the hands that shield you.

I dont see people ganging up on me, I see it as one person. What interest of mine are you protecting? I have yet to see any of this. Shielding me from what exactly.?There are a bunch of people that think something is going on when there isnt.

In case you havent noticed I called out their screw up, but since you didnt read my posts completely I understand that you would think I havent.

Maugetarr.6823:

Look, I’m fine with the price if I could automatically play all the content on my current account if I buy the expansion. The thing is is that I either have to buy a character slot or delete one of my characters if I want to try out the revenant, which is part of HoT content. Alternatively, if I decide to not attach HoT to my account, I could get 5 more character slots to play the revenant and bank tabs, easily worth over $50 through the gem store. The “free” game still has value to veterans which is a major sticking point. If I got a free character slot in the expansion, I probably would have ordered it already.

In fact, marketing missed out on a way to sell themed bundles. If they had gone and done basic (1 char slot), adventurer (char slot + bank tab + other stuff advertised), and explorer (char slot + bank tab + crafting material expansion + other stuff advertised), selling it as a way nice convenience bundle and marketing it as you stocking out to explore all the new facets of the game, I probably would have picked up the top bundle instantly. $50 + revenant fees makes me hesitant.

You dont have to dish out money for that character slot though. You can buy it with gold so its free. The only thing you would have invested in it is time, not money.

Solori.6025:

Straylight.7529:

Regina Buenaobra.6193:

To clarify: $50 is the price of the expansion. We included the core game as a free bonus to make it easier for new players to get into it.

Where is this located in the FAQ,Buy page, Terms of purchase?

I’m still waiting on the link from the place where you actually buy HoT, or get information about what you are about to purchase.

I’m sorry to tell you.
It’s advertised and sold as a bundle.
And until the wording changes and refunds go out.
That is a fact. Under the law.
Not an opinion.

Your still on about that. People have given you your answer multiple times. Your fishing for a certain answer like a UFO hunter. Its only sold as HoT, ANet has already stated, because someone asked due to being curious and wanted to make sure, that what you just linked but for some reason cant find it.

The information just isnt in the place that you want it to be and everyone would agree that it should be on the buy page. Now drop it.

Ricky.4706:

u know, if they called hot an upgrade, it would not be a problem …that’s how upgrades work ….if i have software v1.0 and there’s a paid upgrade to v2.0 – i wouldn’t have a 1.0 and a 2.0 …I’d just have a version 2.0 – veteran user …OR new user.

But since it’s being marketed as 2 products, Guildwars base, and guildwars Hot expansion….the perception is completely different.

as an expansion, it’s not a good deal, as an upgrade, it’s normal – simply by perception.

1 product, people are just making it out to be something it actually isnt which is the entire point.

joneb.5679:

LoL what I wrote is fact. It’s not opinion. I did not say the original game is available otherwise than with the HoT. I said its bundled with it free of charge as Anet have stated the price of Hot includes the original for free. That is fact. Also its fact that no matter the price, the bundle is more favourable to new customers and it is a bundle no matter what. There is no question that the base game is required. That changes nothing of the cost and value to new and current players.

It’s becoming apparent you are not capable of making sense of this. The analogy you use of restaurants giving free sample is evidence of that. Free samples are never full meals in my experiwnce. they are a very tiny portion as an example of the food on offer. Maybe you are thinking of a voucher for the first visit.

Im not getting involved in your endless illogical debate. I already made it clear we are owed nothing from Anet and that they are free to not do anything for current customers. I also said its business but I’m the kind of person who believes in human decency and decency over business would mean Anet would give better value on the new HoT expansion only for current customers.

Okay enjoy what ever you are intending to do with this thread.

So why not raise cain with Blizzard, or Steam. Things lose value over time and also when something new comes out. The free sample also was in reference to bringing new customers, it wasnt to be equal as a complete meal. When you want new people to come to your business you need for them to have a reason to walk in the door. This incentive for new players to try out GW2 is the core game with the purchase of HoT. Sure they could of said “play to level 20 for free” and accomplished the same thing, but at the end of the day its their game, their business. If they want to give out free samples, give out ice cream cones, or give out the core game to new players that is their business choice.

If current customers who already have an investment in the game get an even better deal than new customers, then wheres the sense in that. No one is getting a better deal anywhere in here. No one is paying more money, no one is paying less money, unless you buy a higher bundle. When you buy HoT you get exactly that, if your a new player your getting HoT as well, but the core functionality of the game is also being included which is pretty much all of the old game since you need the maps and such to get to level cap to enter the zones in the first place. Would you rather they just create level 80’s and skip all of what you did?

stof.9341:

Straylight.7529:

No one is buying the core game anymore. Veteran players buy HoT. New players buy HoT and get the core game for free.
No one buys for the core game anymore.

The core game isn’t free. It’s impossible. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_free_lunch#Meanings

New players do not pay for the core game? Then someone else is paying for them. Since veteran players pay the same price for HoT than new players, they feel that THEY are paying for them. Which is why they are angry.

Or ANet is being nice and giving it to people so they can get into the game. No one is taking money out of your pocket or anyone elses to pay for their core game.

stof.9341:

Straylight.7529:

Arkblue.6129:

It’s not getting through because it’s false. It’s just Anet wording it that way, but the game is no longer in the shop, and last time it was it costed 40 euros. 20 or 10 during sales.

But why would you buy the core game as a new player if you get the core game AND HoT for 50$?

And what if HoT is worthless and the core game is good? Why wouldn’t you just want to buy the good part?

Thats a totally different argument. But I guess youll just have to buy the expansion and not take part in HoT. How would you know you dont like the expansion however without first experiencing it which involves purchasing it. Or playing it on a friends comp.

echo.2053:

Jongi.7612:

echo.2053:

Straylight.7529:

echo.2053:

Straylight.7529:

echo.2053:

so player A pays $50 gets core +HoT
Player B already owning core pays $50 and only gets HoT

Tell me more how that’s not bait and switch xD- I enjoy

especially when “Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns expansion(includes Guild Wars 2 core game)” is on the buy page

It’s not bait and switch. It’s an incentive for new players to buy HoT. They could have also offered the core game on a reduced price but apparently they felt generous and gave it for free if you’re a new player.

or they could have had a reduced HoT deal for existing players with the current price package for new players ( this is where the rage is stemming)

Its not bait and switch? so you have access to play on the second core game purchased through this promotion?

Again, stop thinking about what other people get. It’s none of your business if Bob gets a better deal because he’s a new player. All you have to ask yourself is “is HoT worth 50$ for ME”. That is something only you can decide and the answer should not be influenced if some other guy gets a free core game/character slot/mini/unicorn/whatever and you don’t.

You’ll be happier if you adopt this kind of non-envious thinking. Trust me.

You’re not purchasing a second core game. You are purchasing HoT. If you are a new player you get the core game for free.

again “Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns expansion(includes Guild Wars 2 core game)” from the buy page

I get that you don’t mind throwing ma’s money away without care – why should you you didn’t have to work for it, As for me When i purchase something i going to make sure i get what i paid for. If im paying for a new core game then im going to make sure i can use that new core game.

Why does this matter to you anyways? seriously worst case scenario they lower the price either refunding you back the difference or offering something else to make up the difference… you still benefit either way. So before telling me the value of a dollar ( which is pretty clear since your paying more for less) take a page out of your own autobiography because it’s "none of your business " what another player is getting. right?

And theres a strawman. I make my own money thanks. And your not paying for the core game again. Its been explained and explained and explained and its just not getting through.

If you are not paying for the core game again, then why are you paying the same price as someone buying the core game?

You can use your printer to make all the money you want, that still doesn’t mean you know the value of a dollar kiddo.

Mr. Salty over here. And no your not paying for the core game again, your paying for HoT no matter if the core game is attached or not.

Manasa Devi.7958:

Jongi.7612:

Lyger.5429:

Jongi.7612:

Lyger.5429:

I think we need to stop replying to posts like these cause they clearly don’t see where others are coming from and just keep defending Arena and their purchase.

I see where people are coming from. And its wrong. Its not even an opinion at this point, they are saying “this certain thing is happening” when it really isnt.

Oh so this it about you being right and everyone else wrong? No wonder Anet thought they could get away with this,

If that helps you sleep at night, say whatever you want. But your just creating a scenario that doesnt exist. If im wrong prove it, me and so many other people have explained and where to go look about these things you guys keep bringing up. HoT is $50, your not getting anything more or less than a new player, and your not entitled to getting free stuff because you have been playing for 3 years.

You know what your problem is? You’re arguing against points no one is making. You spend your time distorting what people are saying, twisting it into strawmen, putting them on dead horses and then gleefully beating them, beating them, beating them until you have enough glue to put your next faulty argument together.

Point in fact: you’re again implying that people are feeling entitled to free stuff. Please stop that nonsense.

No one is making points im arguing against? So no one is saying Im also paying for the game when I guy HoT? No one is saying that veterans should get something for free? No one is saying that they should get a free copy of the core game to use somewhere else? Are you even paying attention to the thread?

Arkblue.6129:

Jongi.7612:

Arkblue.6129:

Jongi.7612:

Arkblue.6129:

Jongi.7612:

Lyger.5429:

I think we need to stop replying to posts like these cause they clearly don’t see where others are coming from and just keep defending Arena and their purchase.

I see where people are coming from. And its wrong. Its not even an opinion at this point, they are saying “this certain thing is happening” when it really isnt.

except it is :^) Since they removed the core game from the shop and all.
You can deny it, but facts are facts regardless of your approvation.

Or , you know, you can try to convince all the other medias that they are also wrong. Go on, there is a thread in the first page with the list of sites discussing the situation.

What other media? The ones that agree that giving new players the core game with purchase of the expansion is a smart idea and that all the other companies out there do pretty much the same thing yet people dont kitten and complain to them?

How can something also be an opinion and fact? The fact is your buying HoT for $50.

Oh, so that’s your problem, you’re in denial
Good to know.

What denial where? Massively said basically quit complaining, I paid 100 dollars for skyrim and now its 5 dollars but you dont see us kittening. It just seems like you guys are so salty because you want something for free and arent getting it.

Sure, you paid 100 dollars , what , 4 years ago?
And now it still costs , what? 20? And you have to pay it or wait for sales, otherwise it’s 20. Not “free with Dawnguard”. Not, “free with dragonborn”.

I’ll quote;
“That said, ArenaNet probably should have thrown its loyalists a bone to engender a fresh round of goodwill and soften them up for that $50 price point. That’s a standard way to keep existing customers happy and virally promoting their games. Hey, I know! How about a free character slot so we can roll up a Revenant? Yeah! Great idea, internet!”
[—-]
“Is this a fair debate for the MMO community to have? Sure. But do it reasonably and rationally. If you’re using the words “*entitled*” or “slap in the face” or “ boycott ,” you’re doing it wrong.”
[—-]
“This is one of the bigger screw-ups in a long history of big ones for ANet, but it won’t be the last, no matter how much Reddit rages”

They could of made it free if they wanted too. Its their game, if they want to give it away for free thats their choice. GW2 was released 3 years ago, if they make it cost 5 bucks or free it shouldnt matter to a veteran player. The only people it should matter to is the people who paid for the game recently and now have to pay again for the expansion thus losing money.

echo.2053:

Straylight.7529:

echo.2053:

Straylight.7529:

echo.2053:

so player A pays $50 gets core +HoT
Player B already owning core pays $50 and only gets HoT

Tell me more how that’s not bait and switch xD- I enjoy

especially when “Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns expansion(includes Guild Wars 2 core game)” is on the buy page

It’s not bait and switch. It’s an incentive for new players to buy HoT. They could have also offered the core game on a reduced price but apparently they felt generous and gave it for free if you’re a new player.

or they could have had a reduced HoT deal for existing players with the current price package for new players ( this is where the rage is stemming)

Its not bait and switch? so you have access to play on the second core game purchased through this promotion?

Again, stop thinking about what other people get. It’s none of your business if Bob gets a better deal because he’s a new player. All you have to ask yourself is “is HoT worth 50$ for ME”. That is something only you can decide and the answer should not be influenced if some other guy gets a free core game/character slot/mini/unicorn/whatever and you don’t.

You’ll be happier if you adopt this kind of non-envious thinking. Trust me.

You’re not purchasing a second core game. You are purchasing HoT. If you are a new player you get the core game for free.

again “Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns expansion(includes Guild Wars 2 core game)” from the buy page

I get that you don’t mind throwing ma’s money away without care – why should you you didn’t have to work for it, As for me When i purchase something i going to make sure i get what i paid for. If im paying for a new core game then im going to make sure i can use that new core game.

Why does this matter to you anyways? seriously worst case scenario they lower the price either refunding you back the difference or offering something else to make up the difference… you still benefit either way. So before telling me the value of a dollar ( which is pretty clear since your paying more for less) take a page out of your own autobiography because it’s "none of your business " what another player is getting. right?

And theres a strawman. I make my own money thanks. And your not paying for the core game again. Its been explained and explained and explained and its just not getting through.

Lyger.5429:

Jongi.7612:

Lyger.5429:

Jongi.7612:

Lyger.5429:

I think we need to stop replying to posts like these cause they clearly don’t see where others are coming from and just keep defending Arena and their purchase.

I see where people are coming from. And its wrong. Its not even an opinion at this point, they are saying “this certain thing is happening” when it really isnt.

Oh so this it about you being right and everyone else wrong? No wonder Anet thought they could get away with this,

If that helps you sleep at night, say whatever you want. But your just creating a scenario that doesnt exist. If im wrong prove it, me and so many other people have explained and where to go look about these things you guys keep bringing up. HoT is $50, your not getting anything more or less than a new player, and your not entitled to getting free stuff because you have been playing for 3 years.

Okay I’ll play your game, let’s say you’re right and I’m wrong. What do you lose if Anet does decide to compensate us?

No one would lose anything. But the only people that they should compensate are the people who recently bought the game then the pre-purchase was released with the core game for new players bonus tacked on. I have been saying that they should get something from the beginning.

Arkblue.6129:

Jongi.7612:

Arkblue.6129:

Jongi.7612:

Lyger.5429:

I think we need to stop replying to posts like these cause they clearly don’t see where others are coming from and just keep defending Arena and their purchase.

I see where people are coming from. And its wrong. Its not even an opinion at this point, they are saying “this certain thing is happening” when it really isnt.

except it is :^) Since they removed the core game from the shop and all.
You can deny it, but facts are facts regardless of your approvation.

Or , you know, you can try to convince all the other medias that they are also wrong. Go on, there is a thread in the first page with the list of sites discussing the situation.

What other media? The ones that agree that giving new players the core game with purchase of the expansion is a smart idea and that all the other companies out there do pretty much the same thing yet people dont kitten and complain to them?

How can something also be an opinion and fact? The fact is your buying HoT for $50.

Oh, so that’s your problem, you’re in denial
Good to know.

What denial where? Massively said basically quit complaining, I paid 100 dollars for skyrim and now its 5 dollars but you dont see us kittening. It just seems like you guys are so salty because you want something for free and arent getting it.

Lyger.5429:

Jongi.7612:

Lyger.5429:

I think we need to stop replying to posts like these cause they clearly don’t see where others are coming from and just keep defending Arena and their purchase.

I see where people are coming from. And its wrong. Its not even an opinion at this point, they are saying “this certain thing is happening” when it really isnt.

Oh so this it about you being right and everyone else wrong? No wonder Anet thought they could get away with this,

If that helps you sleep at night, say whatever you want. But your just creating a scenario that doesnt exist. If im wrong prove it, me and so many other people have explained and where to go look about these things you guys keep bringing up. HoT is $50, your not getting anything more or less than a new player, and your not entitled to getting free stuff because you have been playing for 3 years.

Arkblue.6129:

Jongi.7612:

Lyger.5429:

I think we need to stop replying to posts like these cause they clearly don’t see where others are coming from and just keep defending Arena and their purchase.

I see where people are coming from. And its wrong. Its not even an opinion at this point, they are saying “this certain thing is happening” when it really isnt.

except it is :^) Since they removed the core game from the shop and all.
You can deny it, but facts are facts regardless of your approvation.

Or , you know, you can try to convince all the other medias that they are also wrong. Go on, there is a thread in the first page with the list of sites discussing the situation.

What other media? The ones that agree that giving new players the core game with purchase of the expansion is a smart idea and that all the other companies out there do pretty much the same thing yet people dont kitten and complain to them?

How can something also be an opinion and fact? The fact is your buying HoT for $50.

joneb.5679:

Jongi.7612:

joneb.5679:

TO the op why does such an intelligent person as you seem so ignorant towards peoples rights to speak for themselves when they see something is poor value and poor treatment.

There is no such thing as loyalty from any company no matter what they say but there is good customer care. We owe GW 2 nothing and they owe us nothing but there are expectations.

First we were told when we bought the game we would be getting frequent free updates regards the Living Story. We did. Some people paid £49.00 for the original game but including LS it was fantastic value for money but that’s what we were paying for.

Many of us hoped for a big expansion pack and we don’t mind paying for it. When HoT was detailed at first some of us felt it wasn’t that much and it certainly wouldn’t have the same playtime for many of us as the base game. We have not had the LS story for a long time so we obviously know this is to replace the free LS updates this year most probably or at least for 6 months.

We expected reasonable value for it. £20.99 to £24.99 is acceptable for me with a free character slot. Well what Aney offered is much costlier and certainly not value for money for many of us because the current new content we know about now has absolutely no way near the life the original game has.

Anet obviously know a lot of people have invested a lot of time on this game and money in the gem store and they are betting on people, happily or angrily, buying the expansion because the only other options is their characters will stop progressing through the game as a whole. They are treating us like a captured audience they can manipulate.

We are not though. It’s not like we are stuck in a music festival having to buy drinks at extortionate prices as we were not allowed to bring our own. We can walk away to other games. I’m sure most if not many of us have done this before. I already moved on but would have come back for a fairly priced HoT even if for a short time. It won’t happen at this price.

I have no issues with someone speaking their opinions, but if they say something like arena net does this or that it implies that its a fact. Say why you dont think something is worth it, but if you say that someone gets more or better treatment than another you can test it and show how their thought processes since they arent looking at the entire picture.

What procedure do you have to do this as based on your reply you are very wrong indeed. Very wrong.

What veterans players have experienced so far was given to them by Anet as part of the package and service they alreeady paid for and may have invested more through the gem shop so that has no import whatsoever to the expansion. We are not entitled to any more either though.

So putting that to sleep. The expansion has been marketed in such a way as that it can now only be bought with the original game. Now as the purpose of an expansion is to expand on what you already have the original game with it is of no use to any current players. It is therefore a fact that the current price though supposedly with a free base game favours bringing in new custom who get more value due to the bundle with the original game which they need.

Current customers therefore are not getting the same level of treatment as new comers. To get a similar level of treatment they should at least get something of similar value free in addition. It is now only an assumption by me but the reason there is no incentive for current customers is Anet are depending the incentive is already there since if current players don’t pay for HoT they cant evolve the characters they have invested in for many years. This is again very ignorant even if they have the right to act this way.

The only reason people may feel its okay to play on peoples invested time and interest is in my opinion they are the same kind of people who put business above human decency.

Wrong, its that the original game can only be bought with the expansion. And the time investment is also relevant and ive explained why. But new players with the free core game arent getting the same access that veteran players got, so the content isnt equal. Its also just a means to get more people to play. Its called marketing and business, when you want people to come to your restaurant you give out free samples, in this case if you buy the expansion you get the core game for free because it holds important files that if you didnt have the expansion just wouldnt run.

Lyger.5429:

I think we need to stop replying to posts like these cause they clearly don’t see where others are coming from and just keep defending Arena and their purchase.

I see where people are coming from. And its wrong. Its not even an opinion at this point, they are saying “this certain thing is happening” when it really isnt.

echo.2053:

so player A pays $50 gets core +HoT
Player B already owning core pays $50 and only gets HoT

Tell me more how that’s not bait and switch xD- I enjoy

especially when “Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns expansion(includes Guild Wars 2 core game)” is on the buy page

Where exactly is the bait and switch? They arent saying your going to get a new car then selling you a pinto.

Manasa Devi.7958:

Jongi.7612:

Manasa Devi.7958:

Jongi.761

You guys need to look at the entire picture, time investment you got out of the core game, what you were able to experience when other people who are new cannot and what is actually happening.

Everything we enjoyed before was paid for when we originally paid for the game.

If you’re telling us that we should consider that enjoyment the thing that veterans get instead of the free base game that new players are getting, you’re actually agreeing that they’re paying double.

There, you’ve defeated your own argument, sounds like the perfect time to rethink your position and give this nonsense a rest. How does it feel to agree with the critics and not even realize it?

No, where are you getting that from? People who paid 3 years ago got their monies worth 3 years ago. HoT is 50 dollars with or without the core game so I havent defeated my own argument. New players are paying 50 dollars for the expansion, and vet players are paying 50 dollars for the expansion.

Please, own up to what you’re saying. You were justifying veterans getting less by pointing out what they already got before. It’s out in the open for all to see. I guess it’s hard to keep track of all the nonsense you’re spouting.

I have, your getting HoT, nothing more nothing less.

Solori.6025:

Straylight.7529:

Solori.6025:

Here is my rebuttal

Show me on the faq or buy page where it says for new accounts only.

Show me on the FAQ or buy page where it says people who have had accounts do not get another one free.

Then after that, link me the definition of the word includes.

I have refuted the same point 3 times already, you’re being willfully ignorant.

Again, strawman argument. I’ve never claimed those things you’re now demanding me to “proof”. Read my post again (the previous one), try to understand. You’re not paying for the core game again or some bundle. You’re paying for HoT and only HoT. If you are a new player you get the core game thrown in for free.

No it isn’t a straw man argument, again you are being willfully ignorant.

You JUST, not even 10 minutes ago said and I quote

Straylight.7529:

If you shelf out 50$ you’re paying for HoT. Nothing more, nothing less.
If you’re a veteran and you pay 50$ you get access to HoT and all its features.
If you’re a new player and you pay 50$ you get access to HoT and all its features.
It’s not about bundles….you’re not paying for a bundle…you’re paying for HoT. You just happen to get the base game for free if you’re a new player. You can try to see HoT as the new “core” game if that makes it easier.

Which is by the language on the buy page
100% false.

The standard edition says
Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns expansion(includes Guild Wars 2 core game)
http://buy.guildwars2.com/store/gw2/en_US/html/pbPage.heartofthorns?_ga=1.150305589.243290696.1381912305&cid=90:5::::Global:40:::

The definition of include is-
to contain, as a whole does parts or any part or element:-

that means
Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns expansion(includes ((see the definition))Guild Wars 2 core game)
A Bundle-bun·dle
?b?ndl/Submit
noun
1.
a collection of things

So try and put two an two together.

Sorry this isn’t an opinion, based on this buy page, it’s a matter of fact. This deal is in fact a bundle.
50$ gets you two things( or is supposed to)

Lastly, I asked you to prove that what I was saying was incorrect, that you are not supposed to get both the core and base game for 50$ based on the information provided from the main sale page and the FAQ.

No it doesnt, go read the forum post. The only thing that can be argued at this point is the information isnt where its supposed to be.

Changer the Elder.2948:

Jongi.7612:

Lunar Sunset.8742:

Jongi.7612:

Lunar Sunset.8742:

It’s not “entitlement” players just don’t want to spend more to get the base game they’ve already had for 2+ years. That’s it.

BTW, I bought the ultimate edition and I still think there are many valid criticisms about the price.

Your not spending more for the core game, HoT is 50 dollars.

Then why isn’t the base game separate just like they said when the initial FAQ came out? You are not just getting HOT, you are getting the base game and HOT.

They didnt, they said you needed the core game to play HoT. Its called a core game for a reason.

But what of other people? Not everyone’s a veteran of three years, some bought the game a month ago, under the influence of the original FAQ that said, verbatim, “core game is required to run the expansion.” They bought core game awaiting the expansion, and now they’re told “Well, suckers, you should have waited, now you can buy it AGAIN.” These players didn’t “experience the content veterans got,” they didn’t get “three years of free gaming.” They pay up again and for nothing. And it doesn’t matter if they paid 10 €uro, 20 €uro, or 2 cents. It’s wrong no matter the number, because it’s wrong on principle.

Read my other posts, or even my original post and you will get your answer. Im tired of repeating myself and others say how much I repeat myself.

echo.2053:

Jongi.7612:

echo.2053:

Jongi.7612:

No no no no no… just no. Your not entitled to anything. You even helped my point across that you think your entitled because you bought the game 3 years ago. Did you not forget you got soooo much that isnt able to be gotten anymore in those 3 years without paying for it like living story season 2? Or how about just all the time you spent in game already, or the free level 20 boosts, or whatever else you could think of.

This is exactly what my original post was addressing, people need to understand this.

What do you mean I’m not entitled to what I pay for? If Im paying the same price as a new player whose buying the full game plus exspanion then i better be getting a second useable copy of gw2 to do whatever I desire with. If that is not the case ( which its not) then that is a bait and switch which yes should anger you.

They can keep their instant lvl 20 scrolls, I never asked or begged for them. in fact they are ridiculous storage wasters since they don’t stack. My character was level 80 before the 1st year, was still level 80 when the second year came around, and this third year…. guess what level the character will be – ill give you a riddle its a two digit number that looks like 80 and the second digit isn’t an 8.

What dont you understand that its JUST HoT. My character was level 80 before the first few months, your point? It doesnt mean I cant get a level 80 revenant in like… oh… however long it takes to get me out of the starting area.

Your not paying for the core game, get it through your head already.

so tell me oh white knight how a brand new player can purchase hot and get a copy of gw2 core for the same price if its JUST HoT?

While we are at the process of white knighting…. where have your donations been for all the living story updates? or you are just a filthy entitled player like the rest of us.

As for the instant leveling thats exactly the point! you are making the argument that we should be bending over backwards shoveling money at anet for kitten that we don’t need nor care for. Yes a new player isn’t going to be instant level 80 becuase just that -THEY ARE BRAND kittenING NEW TO THE GAME!! how thrilled would your next game purchase be if the 1st step you toke instantly completed the game?

A gift? Its exactly what it is. And I have bought gems, ive supported their game. And when you buy HoT now it doesnt mean you cant play it until release. You can go on and get the tomes, crafting mats, exp writs and whatever else. I didnt get this stuff instantly, I had to play the game to get it. If you havent gotten it thats your fault.

Lunar Sunset.8742:

Jongi.7612:

Lunar Sunset.8742:

Jongi.7612:

Lunar Sunset.8742:

It’s not “entitlement” players just don’t want to spend more to get the base game they’ve already had for 2+ years. That’s it.

BTW, I bought the ultimate edition and I still think there are many valid criticisms about the price.

Your not spending more for the core game, HoT is 50 dollars.

Then why isn’t the base game separate just like they said when the initial FAQ came out? You are not just getting HOT, you are getting the base game and HOT.

They didnt, they said you needed the core game to play HoT. Its called a core game for a reason.

Wat? You don’t need the core game since you get it automatically buying HOT.

I dont think you really understand whats need means. Need doesnt mean buy.

Solori.6025:

Straylight.7529:

Solori.6025:

Straylight.7529:

Solori.6025:

Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns expansion(includes Guild Wars 2 core game)

the key word is includes.
it means that when you go to the page, you buy HoT and they are supposed to give you GW2 core also, because it is sold with HoT.

Regardless of whether you own gw2 or not, by the definition of the word includes, all customers who preorder are supposed to get gw2core and HoT.

That is what include means.

Does this explanation work? Is this easier to understand? Would it be easier to explain this in your native language, if so please say what it is and I will try and translate using google.

You’re seeing it the wrong way. They’re not selling you the core game plus HoT. They are selling you HoT. You just happen to get the core game for free (because it’s a prerequirement to access HoT) if you are a new player. The price for HoT is 50$

translating your post into a different language wouldn’t get rid of it’s logical flaws.

There isn’t a logical flaw, expecting a NA company to abide by the language they put into there sale is not illogical.

What is illogical is refusing to educate yourself to basic definitions, and then refusing to understand the basic concept of a bundle, which is clearly what this is.

You don’t know what include means, even though I have linked the definition.
You don’t know what a bundle is, even though I have tried various times to explain it and OFFERED to translate that explanation.

You are being illogical and refusing to understand basic concepts and read what is clearly stated, and then trying to divert the base language of this sale to a Point of View, or an opinion of what it should mean.

You are being illogical, and uninformative, argumentative because people are not adhering to your opinion of what this sale means or should, and ignorant by refusing to educate yourself to basic definitions of the English language.

“I would recommend going and buying an English thesaurus, and if you don’t know what that is, go buy a dictionary and work your way forward”
-Jim Jefferies

Why don’t you just try to refute my point instead of writing long-winded insults. It’s not going to help you bringing your point across.

If you shelf out 50$ you’re paying for HoT. Nothing more, nothing less.
If you’re a veteran and you pay 50$ you get access to HoT and all its features.
If you’re a new player and you pay 50$ you get access to HoT and all its features.
It’s not about bundles….you’re not paying for a bundle…you’re paying for HoT. You just happen to get the base game for free if you’re a new player. You can try to see HoT as the new “core” game if that makes it easier.

I’m not adhering to your opinion because I think your opinion is wrong/flawed. No offense!

Constantly telling me to educate myself on the English language is not going to help you win an argument. I’m sorry!

Here is my rebuttal

Show me on the faq or buy page where it says for new accounts only.

Show me on the FAQ or buy page where it says people who have had accounts do not get another one free.

Then after that, link me the definition of the word includes.

I have refuted the same point 3 times already, you’re being willfully ignorant.

Did you not see the forum post that has been at the top or near the top of the heart of thorns expansion forum with a red post. It says “To clarify: $50 is the price of the expansion. We included the core game as a free bonus to make it easier for new players to get into it.”

They do need to change the buy page, but it isnt like this information is hiding or anything.

Lunar Sunset.8742:

Jongi.7612:

Lunar Sunset.8742:

It’s not “entitlement” players just don’t want to spend more to get the base game they’ve already had for 2+ years. That’s it.

BTW, I bought the ultimate edition and I still think there are many valid criticisms about the price.

Your not spending more for the core game, HoT is 50 dollars.

Then why isn’t the base game separate just like they said when the initial FAQ came out? You are not just getting HOT, you are getting the base game and HOT.

They didnt, they said you needed the core game to play HoT. Its called a core game for a reason.

Manasa Devi.7958:

Jongi.761

You guys need to look at the entire picture, time investment you got out of the core game, what you were able to experience when other people who are new cannot and what is actually happening.

Everything we enjoyed before was paid for when we originally paid for the game.

If you’re telling us that we should consider that enjoyment the thing that veterans get instead of the free base game that new players are getting, you’re actually agreeing that they’re paying double.

There, you’ve defeated your own argument, sounds like the perfect time to rethink your position and give this nonsense a rest. How does it feel to agree with the critics and not even realize it?

No, where are you getting that from? People who paid 3 years ago got their monies worth 3 years ago. HoT is 50 dollars with or without the core game so I havent defeated my own argument. New players are paying 50 dollars for the expansion, and vet players are paying 50 dollars for the expansion.

Lunar Sunset.8742:

It’s not “entitlement” players just don’t want to spend more to get the base game they’ve already had for 2+ years. That’s it.

BTW, I bought the ultimate edition and I still think there are many valid criticisms about the price.

Your not spending more for the core game, HoT is 50 dollars.

Solori.6025:

Jongi.7612:

Solori.6025:

Jongi.7612:

Solori.6025:

Straylight.7529:

Solori.6025:

Straylight.7529:

Solori.6025:

YES you ARE…

Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns expansion(includes Guild Wars 2 core game)

Look at the definition of includes and tell me again how we are not buying the base game with HoT

I paid 70$ for GW2 three years ago. Now I pay 50$ in order to get access to HoT. What did I pay for?

I think this is going way over your comprehension level.

Do you know what includes means?

Do you know what a bundle is?

Why is is relevant what you have or had from 3 years ago.

RIGHT NOW.

When you go to the buy page, what does it say for standard?

A simple thing called reading goes a long way.
But to reiterate.
It doesn’t matter if you bought the game 3 years ago or 2.
This bundle RIGHT NOW
says (includes Guild Wars 2 core game)
That means you are buying HoT and Gw2 Core.

It doesn’t say ANYWHERE ON THE FAQ OR BUY PAGE
You don’t get the core if you have one already.

So yes. YOU ARE buying a bundle when you buy HoT.

If English is not your first language please say so and I will use google translate to try and make this clearer.

Yes, the core game is included for free when you’re a new player. That’s what I’m saying all along. That’s what arenanet is saying. English is not my first language but I think it’s good enough to show you that your logic is simply wrong.

No, again, you don’t understand what include means.
and that isn’t what arenanet is saying based on the meaning of the word includes.

Includes in as simple of a form as i can put it. Is going to a store and buying grapes, but the store clerk gives you an apple and says when you buy grapes, you also get an apple, because they are sold together.

Now back to the wording on the buy page.

Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns expansion(includes Guild Wars 2 core game)

the key word is includes.
it means that when you go to the page, you buy HoT and they are supposed to give you GW2 core also, because it is sold with HoT.

Regardless of whether you own gw2 or not, by the definition of the word includes, all customers who preorder are supposed to get gw2core and HoT.

That is what include means.

Does this explanation work? Is this easier to understand? Would it be easier to explain this in your native language, if so please say what it is and I will try and translate using google.

And thats exactly why I said they should change it to say “included for new players” or “new accounts”. Its a misunderstanding. They did say that its just for new players though, they just need to change the buy page.

No it’s much more than a misunderstanding, it’s a direct and blatant legal issue, they need to not only change it, but refund people their money, then clarify what they actually meant.

Then quit posting on the forums and go after that legal action. They already have clarified what they actually meant. I knew what it meant before I purchased it and I got the information from ANet.

Oh sure,
As soon as you stop saying
“The core game is free”
" your just paying for the expansion" Or anything in it’s likeness
“The core game is a gift”
“Entitled”
“You have gotten plenty for just logging in for the past 3 years.” Or anything in it’s likeness.

Basically, stop posting and let people with valid concerns, issues, or displeasure post.
You do that, and I’ll consider your suggestion.

Then you really dont want to take legal action. Your actions shouldnt depend on my actions. Your also just buying HoT unless your a new player, and its just marketting to get new players to play.

joneb.5679:

TO the op why does such an intelligent person as you seem so ignorant towards peoples rights to speak for themselves when they see something is poor value and poor treatment.

There is no such thing as loyalty from any company no matter what they say but there is good customer care. We owe GW 2 nothing and they owe us nothing but there are expectations.

First we were told when we bought the game we would be getting frequent free updates regards the Living Story. We did. Some people paid £49.00 for the original game but including LS it was fantastic value for money but that’s what we were paying for.

Many of us hoped for a big expansion pack and we don’t mind paying for it. When HoT was detailed at first some of us felt it wasn’t that much and it certainly wouldn’t have the same playtime for many of us as the base game. We have not had the LS story for a long time so we obviously know this is to replace the free LS updates this year most probably or at least for 6 months.

We expected reasonable value for it. £20.99 to £24.99 is acceptable for me with a free character slot. Well what Aney offered is much costlier and certainly not value for money for many of us because the current new content we know about now has absolutely no way near the life the original game has.

Anet obviously know a lot of people have invested a lot of time on this game and money in the gem store and they are betting on people, happily or angrily, buying the expansion because the only other options is their characters will stop progressing through the game as a whole. They are treating us like a captured audience they can manipulate.

We are not though. It’s not like we are stuck in a music festival having to buy drinks at extortionate prices as we were not allowed to bring our own. We can walk away to other games. I’m sure most if not many of us have done this before. I already moved on but would have come back for a fairly priced HoT even if for a short time. It won’t happen at this price.

I have no issues with someone speaking their opinions, but if they say something like arena net does this or that it implies that its a fact. Say why you dont think something is worth it, but if you say that someone gets more or better treatment than another you can test it and show how their thought processes since they arent looking at the entire picture.

Solori.6025:

Jongi.7612:

Solori.6025:

Straylight.7529:

Solori.6025:

Straylight.7529:

Solori.6025:

YES you ARE…

Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns expansion(includes Guild Wars 2 core game)

Look at the definition of includes and tell me again how we are not buying the base game with HoT

I paid 70$ for GW2 three years ago. Now I pay 50$ in order to get access to HoT. What did I pay for?

I think this is going way over your comprehension level.

Do you know what includes means?

Do you know what a bundle is?

Why is is relevant what you have or had from 3 years ago.

RIGHT NOW.

When you go to the buy page, what does it say for standard?

A simple thing called reading goes a long way.
But to reiterate.
It doesn’t matter if you bought the game 3 years ago or 2.
This bundle RIGHT NOW
says (includes Guild Wars 2 core game)
That means you are buying HoT and Gw2 Core.

It doesn’t say ANYWHERE ON THE FAQ OR BUY PAGE
You don’t get the core if you have one already.

So yes. YOU ARE buying a bundle when you buy HoT.

If English is not your first language please say so and I will use google translate to try and make this clearer.

Yes, the core game is included for free when you’re a new player. That’s what I’m saying all along. That’s what arenanet is saying. English is not my first language but I think it’s good enough to show you that your logic is simply wrong.

No, again, you don’t understand what include means.
and that isn’t what arenanet is saying based on the meaning of the word includes.

Includes in as simple of a form as i can put it. Is going to a store and buying grapes, but the store clerk gives you an apple and says when you buy grapes, you also get an apple, because they are sold together.

Now back to the wording on the buy page.

Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns expansion(includes Guild Wars 2 core game)

the key word is includes.
it means that when you go to the page, you buy HoT and they are supposed to give you GW2 core also, because it is sold with HoT.

Regardless of whether you own gw2 or not, by the definition of the word includes, all customers who preorder are supposed to get gw2core and HoT.

That is what include means.

Does this explanation work? Is this easier to understand? Would it be easier to explain this in your native language, if so please say what it is and I will try and translate using google.

And thats exactly why I said they should change it to say “included for new players” or “new accounts”. Its a misunderstanding. They did say that its just for new players though, they just need to change the buy page.

No it’s much more than a misunderstanding, it’s a direct and blatant legal issue, they need to not only change it, but refund people their money, then clarify what they actually meant.

Then quit posting on the forums and go after that legal action. They already have clarified what they actually meant. I knew what it meant before I purchased it and I got the information from ANet.