Guild Wars 2

XiL.4318:

Correct.
The design principles that they seemed to want, reading at development notes here on the forum, was that the class was a ‘lock-down’ specialist which was hard to escape from, hard to kill, but not necessarily the fastest killer.
That’s fine as a concept.
Except that it doesn’t actually work in principle!
Also, if it was actually implemented that way, that’s all it would be and no provision for the alternative play-style options that ALL other careers get. In our case it would be Minion Masters and Single-target/High Damage

If you want to be tough to kill, lock people down be hard to escape from and kill relatively slowly, I’ve got 4 mates I play regularly with that combination… and they’re all Guardians!

My Necro pro/cons?
I’m a highly speed, light armour class that practices being cautiously positioned on the battlefield, condition-specialist AOE and CC in my WvW guild.
I don’t do well at single target damage
I don’t soak up a lot of damage myself
I have very limited escape capability
I do have a very good personal heal
I do have great area denial
I have some damage-offset in Deathshroud
I do have decent amounts of personal +% speed

That is what I bring to the table as a ranged-standoff class, played fairly much exactly the same as a Staff-Elementalist would, instead of being an ‘up in their face damage soak’ that they seem have thought we where apparently going to be. Statistically, THIS WORKS (I have an 18-1 kill/death ratio because of it) and Anet deluded in thinking that we are currently anything else in its current form.

You can build for extremely potent single target damage using Vulnerability stacking, Blood is Power, and Might stacking. Gear for Power Crits and Crit Damage, while you trait a healthy blend of power crit/conditions and death shroud. Dagger/Focus or Axe/Focus for even more vulnerability.

You can put 20+ stacks vulnerability down in 2 seconds. How you use those stacks is up to whether you are ranged or melee focused. Blood is Power, Plague Signet, and Epidemic combine extremely well with stacks of vulnerability x20. So does everyone else’s, everything…

So yeah. Necro single target damage can be created and you can spread that epicness to everything in range and benefit all allies in range at the same time. You just have to perform a perfect keyboard dance of motions like a Korean RTS player and give up all your tankish survivability. Max payoff is around 30k damage and takes 2-3 seconds to build, but you can build on the run, from 1200, and AoE as well so… its functional single target DPS between cooldowns.

Disclaimer: Even following the above advice you will need to dance carefully to avoid wasting cooldowns, or you are gonna spend most of your time running back to where you died.

The only thing Necro is really missing is functional Minion Builds. To get the proverbial Heartseeker Spam between Backstabs, Necro need functional Minions. Then the single target usefulness will be where it should be if you build for it. Too many long cooldowns on skills that don’t really do anything magical to warrant them is creating a void. Minions should be filling that void with something more than hilarity and bucket slaying.
[/quote]

What build is that?

I have found its still no compatible to other classes, also I get knocked down to 0 health usually in about 5 seconds, a Warrior absolutely slaughtered me the other day and Apparently they are supposed to be weak against Necros and Mesmers…

Dakiaris.2798:

My main issue is just with the axe which I posted here https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/A-few-suggested-changes-to-Necromancers-Axe/first#post917723

It’s fine for a power build but the range needs a small boost and the no.1 needs a chain that’s all… Read that thread for my full thought on that issue. The only other issue I have is the minion ai for those times I feel like dropping my signet/bip/well for them. The majority of my issues are bugs and a few tweaks that are needed with spacific weps.

Added.

alanis.6094:

Simple Improvements to Death Shroud and Boons
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Simple-Improvements-to-Death-Shroud-and-Boons/first#post869278

Added.

Also in team pvp recently I have noticed that my AOE damage isnt enough, people can heal way to much and crush my curses.

Its pretty lame tbh..

Kravick.4906:

Again, not enough people play the necromancer for ANet to care what we think. The most popular classes always get the attention first.

Lets make them care, by showing them what we think, and bringing all our opinions to one place.

CC Charles.3675:

Hello everyone,

Due to the amount of threads about thief and its gameplay impact, we have decided to open this thread in which you can discuss your concerns about Thieves in PvE, sPvP and WvW.

This will allow us to collect your feedback with more efficiency and forward them to the appropriate teams.

You can articulate both, positive and negative feedback for it, but we ask you to stay constructive and polite when you want to express your opinion, all posts that break the forum code of conduct will be removed.

Thank you!

We don’t have a thread like this, so I thought I’d start it instead, hopefully then we can convince a community manager to convince the right dev teams to look at the feedback and do something about it.

While browsing the forums I have noticed lots of complaints about this class, more so then any other on the forums, it kind of made me lol looking in the theif class and seeing a feedback thread made by a Community Coordinator as I thought, theifs are strong enough right? I mean I know I get killed by them in about 5 seconds flat so..

Anyway, here are a few threads worth reading that have caught my eye and have had a positive outlook from the Necromancy community:

• The Post your top 3 issues thread – https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/The-Post-your-top-3-issues-thread/first#post824247
• Suggestion Changes to Spectral Armor – https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Suggestion-Changes-to-Spectral-Armor/first#post910848
• On necros being broken – https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/On-necros-being-broken/first#post856798
• Siphoning Not a Beneficial Strat At All – https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Siphoning-Not-a-Beneficial-Strat-At-All/first#post909328
• Flesh Golem Charge – https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Flesh-Golem-Charge/first#post903161
• Make Fear Necro only – https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Make-Fear-Necro-only/first#post891072
• A few suggested changes to Necromancers Axe – https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/A-few-suggested-changes-to-Necromancers-Axe/first#post917723
• Simple Improvements to Death Shroud and Boons – https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Simple-Improvements-to-Death-Shroud-and-Boons/first#post869278

Just afew threads which have made some good points over the past couple of weeks, its worth A Net taking note of whats being said, we know they do take feedback (as they are obviously doing so in the thief forum) hopefully with Necros needing major attention we can get some feedback through to the developers so changes can be made.

-LoVeRSaMa

UndeadPriest.8632:

B. Give the Necromancer an F2 Function that allows them to sacrifice some of their Life Force to heal all their minions (Like a GW1 “Blood of the Master” or Verata’s Sacrifice)

Great post, this bit especially, I have said something similar in previous posts, this is exactly what we need, give heath and take health from our minions.. F2 and F3.

This would make life force more useful, it would allow people to play the class truly how they want to.

Maybe Mesmers have an eye glow item?

Melvin.3295:

Have not yet seen this fixed since the start of the launch, but the vampiric trait in the blood magic tree allows you to damage walls with any auto-attack or ability, even tough players should not be able to attack them at all without siege weapons I believe?

Wrong.

Also, if you were right, you’d be the biggest snitch ever, they should not be fixing things that help Necros when we are as weak as we are ;D

Yea “Fear” has always been a Necro Skill in any MMO game (Except Warlock in WoW, but WoW made about 39432984y728397423 classes so..)

Tbh, fml A Net.

Druitt.7629:

Demonical.1039:

Im sorry but your first statement in your post is that Necro´s isnt broken and just that is a lie, a Huge advertised class mechanic of Necro is broken, Our minions do not work, when the class was announced and advertised it was a class that can raise creepy ( frankly ugly things i wish were skeletons…) undead beings to serve you, atm they are utter trash

No. This is hyperbole. The Necro core mechanic is not minions, it’s Death Shroud.

To be sure, minions are prominent in Necro lore, and some players definitely choose the Necro because they imagine themselves being the Evil Masters of the Undead!!!!!!!!! Bwahaa haa ha. And based on AN advertising, someone like that has every right to be disappointed that minions have many issues. Agreed.

BUT even with stupid AI, minions are not totally borked. I run without minions because I’ve chosen a different legitimate Necro playstyle. But when I do encounter a situation where I want to equip and use a minion, I’ve never had them not work as advertised. Not saying they don’t need serious attention, but the appropriate description of minions is that their AI has problems that strongly affect minion-based Necros.

(As a side note, you may not like that they don’t regen HP, but that seems like a legitimate choice by AN: other classes have summonables which exist for a limited time, while Rangers have pets that are permanent unless overwhelmed. Minions fall between those two extremes: they are not time-limited, neither are they permanent. And our elite minion is actually pet-like, bridging the gap.)

At any rate, there are multiple mechanics that are signatures of the Necro: Forms (especially DS), Marks, Minions, manipulation of boons/conditions, an unusually tough cloth-wearer, Fears, etc. There are multiple trait lines — none of which are dedicated to minions, by the way.

Yes, the dev remark about DS is ridiculous and provocative and deserves our scorn. Yes, Minion AI is problematic. But the class is not broken, and when the fanatics flood our forums with this unqualified “Necros are broken” thought, they turn away many prospective Necros who would not make minions the center of their builds. (Heck, pets/minions have been problematic in dungeons in every MMO I’ve played, so it’s historically been hard to be a super-pet/minion-focused build in groups.)

YOU are sorely disappointed in the class and it does not deliver what you imagined, based on AN’s advertising. You have a right to be unhappy. Saying that the class is therefore broken is misleading and counter-productive.

You seem pretty awesome Druitt, I do like your points although I am against most of them, what build is your Dark Prince?

As a potential Minion Master myself I do dislike the system in this game, especially when they got it so right in Guild Wars 1, I loved Necros in that game, Spitful Spirit, Blood of the Master all these things are what necromancers are supposed to be…

This game is more versatile and because of that every class is similar, we do have points that are better in certain areas but we are not focused, and that focus is what defines our class..

With the Necros I think they were scared, and its why its nerfed so badly in terms of damage and ability.

Its a shame really… I loved GW 1 =[

Levian.6742:

I don’t mind our minions currently, but I do feel we need more options.

I have heard a LOT of people saying they don’t want to use minions as a Necromancer, and I personally don’t understand this. I don’t use them currently because they’re broken. But summoned minions are what defines a Necro. To say you want to be a Necro without minions is like to say you want to be a Ranger without a pet, or a Mesmer without any clones.

I definitely think we need a higher minion cap, even just in the form of more abilities like bone minions that summon two at once

The examples your using are using are all from Guildwars 2, not from any other concepts or games, not even Guildwars 1, Ranger without a bow I would consider more drastic, a Mesmer without clones is pretty easy concept considering its a pretty new thing to happen, but yea… :P

P.S: our minions are crap, I’d rather have 3 long range minions then any short range, that means I’d be able to summon them, and go in for the close range myself… It opens up more playing styles and better gameplay.

Thanks for sharing your opinion.

I do share many of your views, Necromancers should be exactly that Necro..mancers.

We want real minions, more then 3 of them, ones that you can take life from and give life back to, even if I had to raise them from dead bodys it’d be better than what we currently have.. Like a passive skill that when something dies, a skeleton or zombie raises from them.

Khalifahaze.6045:

Not trying to knock on you here because I love seeing other dagger necros, I believe it to be one of the strongest builds…but I mean half of the people in this video are just trying to run away from you, not very hard to kill people that don’t really fight back. On another note gj thou dagger ftw!

I use a Bloodfang with Life Steal and Accursed Chains these models are friggin kitten, allows me to own pretty bad, I am power/prec at the moment, with lots of crit damage, with lots of life steal, but this build is abit crap at the moment, so need to try revise it :P

Druitt.7629:

So in GW1 a Necro could literally have 10 buffed minions out and an opponent would have to kill them all to kill the Necro?

No your mixing L2 and GW1 xD
I could have 10 minions and keep them alive, but to do that I’d make myself weak, they could kill me that way, also there wasn’t any clutter in GW1 at all, was pretty basic, but you could get some real good combinations, this game is to.. whats the word.. “Single Player” your team mates dont really matter, its just about everyone doing damage in there own way, sadly the Necros way is extremely boring.

Druitt.7629:

LoVeRSaMa.3289:

@Rannulf, tell me about it, why is that even in the game if its totally useless and when 4 skills from the blood magic trait make it seems like siphoning is going to be good but just spit in your face..

Yeah, it does feel like siphoning was originally a good idea but somewhere along the line they realized that there were a lot of complications and they simplified it into something that you wouldn’t go out of your way to get. (And you would have to go out of your way to get it.)

Perhaps they were thinking of WoW’s Warlock with life leeching and fears. That was fun and challenging for PvE, but got nerfed into oblivion because of PvP since everyone hates being feared to death. Once ANet decided that fears would be short-lived — for PvP purposes and player sanity — the whole Warlock thing begins to fall apart.

That sounds like, they had lots of good ideas, half implemented them and we ended up with a half finished product..

If siphoning worked better, it would make PVP more interesting, I could stay back and die, or jump in and hope to be able to steal enough life to survive the attacking coming in.. Id require my team to take lots of agro from me, while I can do Medium Damage and keep myself alive in the process, its not too complicated, they might aswell implement it as its half done and Minions are broken so everything else is boring..

I wondered why it previously could not burrow like all the other wurms in the game :P

I think a targeted Burrow would be the best…

@Rannulf, tell me about it, why is that even in the game if its totally useless and when 4 skills from the blood magic trait make it seems like siphoning is going to be good but just spit in your face..

Also when you chose fast attack, high crit dagger(s) I plural daggers but I mean 1 because for some reason a dagger in each hand means I still only fight with 1 and its slooooow…..

High Blood magic should increase Siphoning, period.

Mega Skeleton.8259:

I think you’re underrating necro weps, the conditions at a necros disposal as well as dismissing the power of Death Shroud (judging based on your complete lack of mention of it). The siphons are not true siphons, I assume for a few reasons (messes with gearing. Suddenly your offense is your defense. That could create…problems from a developer standpoint).

My answer to that is, don’t put the Offence as Defence option infront of me if it does not work at all, infact not only does it not work, it wastes my time.

Death Shroud is pretty useless tbh the damage is very weak, it gives me a little more HP, but I can only use it when I am already screwed and by then its too late..

Mega Skeleton.8259:

I think you should experiment more and go outside your comfort zone of your expectations of a necro, and you’ll be surprised what you’re capable of. But I’m a relentless optimist. It is a real shame about minions, but I’ve never been keen on letting AI do all my dirty work, so no big loss for me.

I have gotten to 80, I have used different sets different weapons, the class is weak and squishy, it has no minions (or might as well not have any) and the conditions don’t do enough damage for me to kill anything, if the conditions do kill anyone I don’t know about it, because its unsatisfying.

Also about the AI doing the work, I’d rather them allow to to control the minions more in-depth like every other MMO with them in.. Even Lineage 2 made by NCSoft about 10 years ago have an awesome system which you can press “Stop Attacking things, just follow me or wait there!”

It’s just not good enough =/

I have played many games with Necromancers in them, my two favourite have been:

• Guild Wars 1 (by far, with Spiteful spirit and its amazing army of minions)
• Lineage 2 ( the way you could actively transfer damage from yourself to a minion that you could buff and stack HP, so only people with skill knew they had to kill your minions first.)

Sadly Guild Wars 2 does not do it for me, the game has forgotten what a Necromancer is, I mean the key is in the name, Conditions is one aspect yes, but it seems most classes have conditions, and Necros conditions are not even that great,

Minions, well I don’t need to tell anyone on this forum about the Necro’s minions how how bad they are.. I mean in GW1, I could keep them alive forever and have about 10, I could also sacrifice them when I needed health…

Our damage is poor, the class really lacks, its a shame really, I normally really love this class, I feel like I am being forced not to play how I want because the weapons I have are useless and the stats I have don’t mean anything to a Necro…

Another concept that had me pretty excited was Siphoning, that seemed perfect, I thought “They have made it so Necros can be a Melee class, I bet they want us to be good at siphoning, that will give is the best advantage of keeping us alive on the battle field..” wasn’t I wrong my main speciality at the moment (and I have spent all my gold in doing this) is to focus on Crit and siphoning with high vitality (which does not touch the amount of health that I get healed for when siphoning for some reason…)
So I must get about 1K HP ever 5 – 10 seconds or so, and I find most classes doing atlest 5k damage to me every 3 seconds.. its terrible… I have a full gold exotic set (not that that means anything these days as what I wear makes no difference..)

A long story short, playing a Necro in this game is making me not want to play the game at all, the trait tree is useless, the minions are no fun as I can only have about 5 at a time, the damage is weak and every class can kill me in about 5 hits..

I am tired A-Net, I am bored and I would like Necros to be good, because your game is pretty amazing, at the moment not as good as GW1, but has the potentiol to be better, once you sort out this Fractals and gear grabbing nonsense along with broken Necros and Guild Hopping [=

Meanwhile I think Ill just watch from afar.

That’s an awesome, question, I didn’t think of that..

Not sure myself, but I do have full mad kings..

A very good event, better than any MMO I have played, the quality, the models and the animations all things that take so much time..

I really love this game!