Ah….thank you so much Blizzard for the post WoW generation of MMO enthusiasts.
Legendary items are really taking on a new role at the moment if you think about it.
They are the item tier that frees you from the grind, if you can stand the grind to get one in the first place.
Since they have stated that Legendary weapons were always meant to be equivalent to the top tier items in the game, that basically means you’ll get a free upgrade whenever a new tier of gear is introduced into the game.
This is all inconsequential kitten droppings if you ask me, there Manifesto “for me” is the game they shipped and they broke it. They know they broke it and they apologised and came up with a plan to fix it…..period end of story.
The added grind and Ascended gear are just a small nearly insignificant symptom of in the domino effect this last patch had on the game.
It divided the player base, its divided game play and players by content, its killed the open world endgame, sent the game in a path of reduced players choice for endgame, killed level 80 world zones and turned LA into a lobby for FotM, killed the path to the top level gear through karma, kill the path to top level gear through crafting, and forced everyone that is interested in top end progression into running a single 5 man dungeon …. Sorry I didn’t sign up for Borderlands 2.5 or Diablo 3.5 I want to play a Massively Multi player game in the open world. I don’t want to stand around in LA spamming in LA LFG..FotM..L2 for 30 min. for a hamster wheel dungeon that if I don’t keep up with my guild’s difficulty level I get left behind. This breaks the basic principles behind many of the reasons they made the design choices they made for the rest of the game.
Listen to their panel discussions and the Manifesto and the Colin/Eric interview regarding the endgame and listen partially closely to the “WHY” they did certain things and you’ll see why players feel this patch is off the rails.
You can read the rest of my thoughts about that here.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/The-New-GW2-Flavor-Rocks/first
No. What we can blame people for is not having some patience after the apology is made to give them some time to try and fix the mistakes they obviously want to correct. We can also blame them for blowing the mistakes completely out of proportion to make it seem like the current status of the game is grind FOTM or you will be weak in comparison to someone who has grinded FOTM.
Neither of which is correct.
True perhaps, but if players didn’t ring the alarm bells now “loud and hard” the live team may have stayed on course to turn this into another endgame dungeon grind game, since they seemed to be oblivious to the impact this is having on the rest of the game.
Arena Net made a lot of statements on their game design philosophies over the years. I suggest watching a few of their developer and GDC Panels and you might get why people felt like this patch stepped on some of their core design values and why people were shocked to see this at all never mind 3 months after launch.
I don’t think people literally mean the Manifesto video itself when they talk about Arena Net not living up to the “Manifesto”.
Arena Net spent 4 years selling us on how other MMO’s were doing it wrong and it was time to change the genre.
Player separation, competition over mobs, nodes, and quest objectives were going to be a thing of the past. They sold us on WHY this game was going to change things.
Walls that prevented players from grouping with anyone anywhere were being torn down, which was the main reason behind the trinity being removed.
They spent 4 year telling us WHY GW2 would be different and free us from the grind with dynamic events, and extraordinary open world game play where we all wear flowers in our hair and just play for fun.
“we don’t think its ok to force player into dungeons at endgame”
http://www.arena.net/blog/is-it-fun-colin-johanson-on-how-arenanet-measures-success
Then with one patch they introduce player separation, grind, and turn the open world into a lobby for the never ending FotM hamster wheel.
They have all but admitted this was a mistake and it’s obvious with the divide it’s created in the community, can you really blame people for feeling betrayed.
OP, your missing some key differences between single player RPG’s and MMO’s. For one a certain amount of player retention is needed even in a game that has no subscription fees because your continued involvement with the game is my content. Content need to stay relevant beyond the first time you run it so it remains relevant for you to share the experience with other player s more than once.
Quests, Missions, Events … are all designed to be run more than once so we have the opportunity to play together. Since we all can’t be on at the same set time every day but we all need there to be players interested in the same content as us they can not have “Play Once and Reward” content. It just wouldn’t work.
The key is finding a balance where a player gets rewarded a bit each time but also has a predictable golden-ring reward the player can visualizes at the end of the road.
More importantly however I think MMO’s need to find a way to reward players commonly for all activities in the game.
The Karma currency came very close to meeting this. If players are rewarded for dynamic events, jumping puzzles, discovering crafting recipes, completing daily and monthly achievements, running a dungeon, killing an open world champion mobs, and that currency is used to trade for the top end rewards in the game then players would spontaneously work their way into the top rewards by just doing what they found to be the most fun, or by doing a mix of everything.
The idea that one play style being rewarded over another and that play style usually is related to grinding the same content over and over is one of the reasons vertical gear procreation gets such a bad rap.
When player choice leaves the game and you are forced into one activity and need to repeat that over and over to coax a reward out of the game that’s when it becomes a Grind.
Are all of you incredibly stupid and just want to speak words of hate for no reason or are you all unable to read?
AMA session anyone? Take your whining elsewhere.
Thank you so much for your thought provoking and informative post…..LOL
I’ve read every word of the AMA and I for one appreciate the effort Chris put in yesterday to set the record straight.
However words do not fix the game. The game is still broke IMHO and we got a lot of words so at the moment I’ll be taking a pass until the game starts to look like something I want to invest my time in again.
I hope they pull it out of the fire, I really do I love the game, the combat , the look and the respect the game had to allow players to advance in the game regardless of how you want to play it. GW2 didn’t cater to just those that wanted to spend countless hours rerunning the same content and until it looks like that game again I’m out.
What still burns me is they knew this was going to cause a rift in the community but they forced it out the door because they wanted to prove they could be “That Game” to a fan use to a particular MMO endgame. It’s difficult to trust a company again that throws its own ideologies out the door so quickly.
but it better be something spectacular to breathe life back into these areas that are in cardiac arrest.
If their event system was more flexible, they could have them accumulate bonus xp, karma and gold, the longer they haven’t been successfully completed. Not that such a system would only work in Orr, mind you…
But do they event want Orr to become interesting again? If you look at how they treated most of their non-endgame areas in GW1, I wouldn’t bet on it.
Orr was supposed to be their open world solution. It was in trouble before the FotM came along. They claim “We knew FotM was good but we didn’t know that many would flock to it”. I found that to be a strange statement since I predicted it without even seeing the content on the day of its release.
They nerfed the drops and karma in Orr, connected the top gear in the game to FotM and then introduced a scaling difficulty to FotM that once on that train if you get off you might not get back on again……LOL. What did they think was going to happen?
Personally I think they need to take some drastic intervention to save the open world end game. They need a cataclysm rework of the Orr zones, FotM needs to lose the difficulty scaling and get a lock out, and rewards for Ascended gear needs to be redistributed throughout Orr.
They had no business introducing this content with their open world content on life support in a game that NEEDS a critical mass of players to make Dynamic events in the open world viable.
I for one appreciate the effort Chris put in yesterday to set the record straight, but the game is still broke IMHO and we got a lot of words so at the moment I’ll be taking a pass until the game starts to look like something I want to invest my time in again.
I hope they pull it out of the fire, I really do I love the game, the combat , the look and the respect the game had to allow players to advance in the game regardless of how you want to play it. GW2 didn’t cater to just those that wanted to spend countless hours rerunning the same content and until it looks like that game again I’m out.
What still burns me is they knew this was going to cause a rift in the community, but they forced it out the door because they wanted to prove they could be “That Game” to a fan use to a particular MMO endgame. It’s difficult to trust a company again that throws its own ideologies out the door so quickly.
I for one appreciate the effort Chris put in yesterday to set the record straight, but the game is still broke IMHO and we got a lot of words so at the moment I’ll be taking a pass until the game starts to look like something I want to invest my time in again.
I hope they pull it out of the fire, I really do I love the game, the combat , the look and the respect the game had to allow players to advance in the game regardless of how you want to play it. GW2 didn’t cater to just those that wanted to spend countless hours rerunning the same content and until it looks like that game again I’m out.
The endgame open world zones are in serious trouble, I don’t know what Arena Net has planned but it better be something spectacular to breathe life back into these areas that are in cardiac arrest. And it better be soon!
Check out the contested way-points in the post below and remember this was predicted 9 days ago. I just hope the fix isn’t rolled out with such a lack of forethought as the patch was.
That really is sad!
I really have to respect Chris and his efforts today but to be completely honest it makes me angry, disappointed and bewildered all over again.
I know it’s just a game, and I’m just a crazy MMO player passionate about the hobby and genre.
I waited for this game for so long, it finally arrived, I got to play it for 3 months, then someone went off their meds and BooM! We’re back in beta waiting for them to fix the game again.
I think GW2 is an incredible game. The design team behind it showed some real genius in their ideologies, but the live teams just seems to be relearning these lessons over again instead of following through on the strength of the game. I’m more angry now that this fracture in the game and community happened at all.
It sounds like they got the message. Gear progression is here to stay, but they get it that all players regardless of how they CHOOSE to play the game need a path to the gear and that path allows them to have fun.
And, I know some will not be happy with anything short of a total reversal of vertical progression, but that’s not going to happen by the sounds of it. For those hoping to hear that today, I truly am sorry.
(edited by Logun.2349)
I’m reading through the answers and all I hear is a soft peddle of “we screwed up”. What I don’t understand is how just about any veteran MMO player on the planet could have predicted how this patch was going to impact the community and the game, yet it got released.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/The-New-GW2-Flavor-Rocks/first
So I just have 2 questions left. When are you going to fix this mess you made, and how can I trust that you’re not going to lose all common sense again?
Arena Net, Congratulations you have simultaneously taught aspiring game designers how to drill down a genre, dissect it, and find solutions to its core flaws, ….. and how to completely 9/11 a game in 3 months with a single half baked patch.
I think they have been pretty transparent about their philosophy. You obviously dont like it, they arent going to roll back or take the items out of the game. They want to expand the items and make them easier to get and more accessible to everyone including lowering ingredient requirements. If its not the answer you are looking for..then it just isnt, spouting hyperbole and being overly dramatic by comparing an experience where 5k people died in a burning tower of death to a video game and its changes..is silly and has no place in constructive conversation.
You didn’t follow the link did you, I get they have a plan to fix this mess. I’m just baffeled how they could have made this blunder to begin with.
We had a lot of community members dedicate their free time to put a list of questions from many of us it would be prudent to have those addressed.
Mike O’Brien:Here’s what we believe: If someone wants to play for a thousand hours to get an item that is so rare that other players can’t realistically acquire it, that rare item should be differentiated by its visual appearance and rarity alone, not by being more powerful than everything else in the game. Otherwise, your MMO becomes all about grinding to get the best gear. We don’t make grindy games – we leave the grind to other MMOs.
http://venturebeat.com/2012/05/21/guild-wars-2-interview-monetization/#s:guildwars2-16
Colin Johanson:The rarest items in the game are not more powerful than other items, so you don’t need them to be the best. The rarest items have unique looks to help your character feel that sense of accomplishment, but it’s not required to play the game. We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too.
http://www.arena.net/blog/is-it-fun-colin-johanson-on-how-arenanet-measures-success
Mike O’Brien:I would also like add that we have never said there would be no vertical progression. We do intent to focus on horizontal but we will have vertical progression moving forward with the focus on zero grind and a very low power curve.
.. ja, just LOW,
but threadmill we never ever would install to the game…It’s difficult to ignore those statements (well, difficult for the players at least). Personally, I would love to hear what they were thinking when making each of those statements, and why they don’t seem to believe there are contradicting philosophies happening there. But I doubt we’ll ever see anything like that answered.
Sadly, the first two statements are among the ones that I sold the game on to my friends. They don’t pay attention to the forums, and honestly I haven’t had the heart to tell them “Hey.. guess what changed?”. :/
This is becoming more humors then the game …can we have one of these every week?
There are and will always be plenty of people who need every level of Fractals because of alts and new players. Not everyone is a complete jerk and is unwilling to run a lower level to help a friend or guildmate. In addition, new fractals will be added and in general of course there will be plenty of new content of various kinds in the future. Plenty of people still run story and explorable modes for older dungeons, too.
You really don’t have a point, here, sorry.
There’s no points being made, the OP outlined some predictions in a shift in the way some players would react to the mechanics being introduced by this latest patch and over the course of the last 8 days others have confirmed them as facts.
The dev’s introduced elements that promote a degree of separation between players, offers less choice for endgame, forces players that want the most powerful gear into a dungeon, has made areas of the game obsolete, reduced player interest and participation in the open world and created a hamster-wheel dungeon that players need to stay on the upper end of the difficulty scale or risk being left behind.
The compounding factor is for many players all of the above has reduced their enjoyment and their participation in the game.
I just wanted to write a quick post about this “vocal minority” argument I see popping up quite often here.
The fact is that this forum is probably only a small proportion of the total Guild Wars 2 community. I think we can all agree on that. I think we can also agree that this small group is very vocal about their opinions of the game.
What we can’t do, is make the mistake of assuming that just because someone is in the vocal minority, it automatically makes their argument valid, or invalid.
This is a very important point because using that argument is actually nothing more than an ad hom attack. It’s like saying that because only a small minority of people were speaking out against the nazis, that their points were invalid.
We have no way of knowing what the silent majority thinks without gathering proper data and feedback. All arguments on this forum can easily represent a large, or small percentage of the community as a whole, but we simply can’t know this without a bigger sample size.
So, if someone makes an argument or an observation about the game, by all means agree, or disagree with what they say. But make sure you don’t fall into the trap of automatically dismissing the argument, just because they are the vocal minority.
Thanks for reading.
One only needs to look at how vibrantly populated the endgame zones are after last week’s patch to see how popular this last patch was……err…ya
I could go on with the links, they all relate to the topics discussed in the opening post. None of the links below will come as a surprize to the contributors of this thread.
More and more players are starting to see the larger ramifications of last week’s patch. As end game areas die off and LA in constant overflow it’s apparent that this new gear carrot has cleared out the world.
Players have parked alts and are working on the grind to max out the slots they can before the next round of Ascended gear is released. The design of the new dungeon scaling difficulty gets them on a hamsters wheel that if they get off and not keep up with the community or there guild they could get left behind.
Even if they wanted to spend time in the open world fear of not keeping up with the difficulty level keeps them playing the content longer and beyond the point of having fun.
Lost motivation to play…
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Lost-motivation-to-play
Where is everybody?
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Where-is-everybody
What I Use to do In GW2… And What I Now Do.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/What-I-Use-to-do-In-GW2-And-What-I-Now-Do
Tyria Talk – Legendary Endgame
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Tyria-Talk-Legendary-Endgame/first#post850993
5 main cities are dead. They need some love
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/5-main-cities-are-dead-They-need-some-love/first#post849341
Why not Ascended Gears from classic dungeons
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Why-not-Ascended-Gears-from-classic-dungeons
Specific stats only with ascended gear?
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Specific-stats-only-with-ascended-gear
Any reason to leave LA now?
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Any-reason-to-leave-LA-now/first#post849071
I have 2 more for you.
E9: Things like the trinity were removed and systems added like scaling content and side kicking to keep players playing together. Many players now feel the scaling of FotM is causing a divide in players and making it harder and harder to find lower level groups. Do you see the power scaling of FotM as adding to player separation and is this in line with the original ideologies for GW2?
E10: Prior to the announcement of Ascended gear the top tier of gear could be obtained in a number of ways; crafting, karma, or running dungeons. Players truly could play GW2 anyway they liked and still find a path to the most powerful rewards in the game will this freedom of choice be restored to endgame? Ascended gear feels like the new raid gear was this your intention? Will a path to Ascended (the top level) gear be restored to crafters and open world players?
These are hard core questions and I for one appreciate that, I’m so sick of fan sites ignoring issues in the community like their scared to ask the hard questions; at least we’ll get to see if Anet can balls up and be strait with us.
Ascended gear is just a symptom of the larger picture of how the game has begun to shift.
I really think they rushed this out. I don’t think it’s ever a good thing when a game the size and scope of GW2 focuses its player base into one dungeon and reduces player options on how to get into the top gear in the game.
I also really don’t think the scaling concept for this dungeon is worth the fractures it creates between players.
Nearly every game mechanic introduced with this patch goes against their original design ideologies.
As for WVW, it can be sort of unfair, but at the same time. I’ve never felt like I was weak in exotics versus a foe with a legendary,…..
That’s because Legendary Weapons are the same power as Exotics …. they are only a cosmetic upgrade.
New players every day continue to express concerns over issues outlined in the opening post never mind the gear creep that is just a symptom of the issues players have been faced with since this last patch.
Arena Net, you have impressed me over the years with you game design ideologies for MMO’s and how smartly you execute game design that builds community but this last patch is a tragedy and a blow to the community mechanics of GW2 ….. the losses will not be worth the gains.
Please Arena Net feel welcome to comment!!!?
This new dungeon has ruined my experience
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/This-new-dungeon-has-ruined-my-experience
First Time Poster
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/First-Time-Poster
FotM killed Gw2
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/FotM-killed-Gw2/first#post843007
Worried about making an alt
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Worried-about-making-an-alt
Change in loot parameters or a bug?
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Change-in-loot-parameters-or-a-bug
(edited by Logun.2349)
[…]
Well then getting exotics should not be a problem for you, travel the world, do dynamic events kill everything that you see, by just doing that you can get into exotic gear because you’ll be earning karma for every DE and picking up the daily achievements along the way.
Then you trade the Karma for Exotics, this only breaks down for the new Ascended gear that you must repeat FotM for. But Exotics you just get as a side effect of playing the game.
That why Ascended gear is such a tick off for me, one path one 5 man dungeon, over and over.
Nope.
I’ve been everywhere and I’ve killed every single thing I’ve met. Never skipped an event or bailed out before they finished. My main character has 100% map and a bit more than that, and it’s still wearing mostly masterwork gear as I’m getting one rare once in a while, but never for my profession. Not even after throwing them in the mystic forge.
The only exotics I’ve ever got where from the Mad King’s Clock Tower and a couple of chests in jumping puzzles and after defeating a boss, including the karka chest which gave me a couple of weapons I couldn’t use, that were not even precursors and were worth less than 50silver in the trading post.
All of them were for another profession (excepting the mad king’s slippers), and all of them were worth less than 1 gold in the trading post.
And whenever I play all routes in a dungeon, I only get enough for the chest piece or a couple of small pieces.
I’d had to mix pieces from different dungeons, and a badly matched set like that is like not having a set at all, both for appearance, stats and upgrades.As for karma, after doing all of that, I only had about 100K karma. Not enough for an exotic set after they drastically increased their cost.
So, no. What people experience in-game is very different, and there aren’t the bare minimums that should be in place for those unlucky with drops or refusing to grind.
Mithran if you have 100K in Karma you have enough for 2 set pieces already.
If you had been doing your dailies (4.5K Karma a day) plus the 5 events you need each day it would take you 60 days playing about 40 minutes a day to be in top end gear. In the world of MMO’s that’s hard to sell as a grind. Of course that’s only one option up to about a week ago you could have crafted yourself up a set for a marginal amount of gold by the time your 80.
The key point is the game doesn’t stand content or preferred play style in the way of you getting them.
Exotics are not cosmetics, and they do not drop all over the place. Either you grind for gold and buy them, or you kill for countless hours until they drop for you, or grind dungeons until you get enough tokens, as doing all routes of a dungeon isn’t enough to get a full set.
It’s not a grind to get into exotics if what you’re doing to get them is FUN. You get into exotics As a Side Effect of just playing the game YOUR WAY.
[…]
I find doing new things and not having to repeat things fun.
I love seeing new places, meeting new people, and burning them to a crisp.
If I have to choose between doing the same thing again and again to complete a set, and having fun, then I’m finding grind.
Well then getting exotics should not be a problem for you, travel the world, do dynamic events kill everything that you see, by just doing that you can get into exotic gear because you’ll be earning karma for every DE and picking up the daily achievements along the way.
Then you trade the Karma for Exotics, this only breaks down for the new Ascended gear that you must repeat FotM for. But Exotics you just get as a side effect of playing the game.
That why Ascended gear is such a tick off for me, one path one 5 man dungeon, over and over.
A week ago I saw a MMO that had a path to endgame for me. Last week I saw a game that saw all players as deserving of endgame content and provided the player with the freedom of choice on what that endgame was going to be.
Today I just see a game that is closing those options, making dungeons the new raids and diminishing its own open world content in the process.
So pretty much lost my drive for the game at the moment until I see what direction this is going I’m off ….NEXT!
Here is a collection of threads that directly relate to the issues talked about in the opening post.
If you are still playing but playing less, find there is a shortage of players in the open world, can’t find groups for FotM, or just fed up with the new feel of the game I suggest posting in one or all of these threads to insure your opinion gets heard.
Why I’m never bothering with FotM again
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Why-I-m-never-bothering-with-FotM-again/first
How many here are playing less? And why?
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/How-many-here-are-playing-less-And-why/first
Why The Stat Cap Is So Important
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Why-The-Stat-Cap-Is-So-Important/page/2#post838984
This will not end well….in my view
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/This-will-not-end-well-in-my-view/first
GW2 has become a FoTM Match Making Lobby
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/GW2-has-become-a-FoTM-Match-Making-Lobby
A day in Lion’s Arch
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/A-day-in-Lion-s-Arch/first#post828264
Areas all seem empty!
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Starting-areas-all-seem-empty
Story Mode does not happen anymore
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Story-Mode-does-not-happen-anymore
Yes or No: Manifesto Represents the Game?
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Yes-or-No-Manifesto-Represents-the-Game/first
Exotics are not cosmetics, and they do not drop all over the place. Either you grind for gold and buy them, or you kill for countless hours until they drop for you, or grind dungeons until you get enough tokens, as doing all routes of a dungeon isn’t enough to get a full set.
It’s not a grind to get into exotics if what you’re doing to get them is FUN. You get into exotics As a Side Effect of just playing the game YOUR WAY.
You can get exotic gear through multiple paths; they are not a reward for just a select group of players that like running dungeons over and over.
Exotics can be earned with Karma, playing in the open world, completing daily and monthly challenges, collecting the mats and crafting or running dungeons, just about every activity in the game takes you on a path to exotic gear.
That was the gem of this game, you could build your character to be all it could be by just doing what you had the most fun at. One play style was not favored over another. This game didn’t tell players at endgame you MUST play THIS way to get the best gear it said “Just Play It Your Way And Have FUN”
Now the new Ascended Gear feels more like the new Raid gear with it centered around dungeons, what if you’re more into farming the open world and crafting, or what if your idea of a Massively Multiplayer game is not running a 5 man dungeon over and over, but instead you enjoy the Massive Multiplayer open world events or you’re more into WvW or PvP.
At the moment the options we did have for endgame seem to be diminished. Only when you ask players to play the game suboptimal for their play style that’s when the game becomes a grind.
Two more things in this patch:
1. Severe rare drop reduction in all open-world areas. Which results in traditional areas being abandoned in favor of FotM. Also, patch-notes lied about “every champion now drops rewards”.
2. A lot of defensive spells now only can have 5 targets. Which means that summon-oriented professions (necro, mesmer, ranger etc) are now excluded from the buff-oriented groups. No one wants to share a buff with illusion that will shatter anyway.
They nerfed the karma rewards as well, pushing more players into this new dungeon.
Bottom line:
Has these new systems introduced in this last patch made players more or less selective about who they group with? …..we all know the answer.
No argument that video games provide allot of entertainment value when compared to other forms of entertainment.
However, what if this was a hard goods item, let’s say it’s a network Router. Now, you use it for 2 months and then the manufacturer provides a firmware update and it stops working as intended ….. is that ok to return to the store? You expected to get years of uses out of your new network Router but now it’s not doing the job.
Should it be different for a game that you expected to be playing for years that the developer deliberately changes 3 months after launch in a way that was unexpected and into something you would not have purchased in the first place.
I don’t see the difference, I haven’t asked for a refund but I don’t begrudge anyone that does.
Ya, its a bit of a hamster wheel, if you get off you may not be able to get back on if the community out paces you.
If they reset everyone’s difficulty back to 0 then they are going to tick all those off on the top rung.
I’t will be interesting to see how this goes!
You can’t add a change like this partially.
When you add something like this, you have to make also retroactive changes.
This happened all the time in GW2, as better drops and more skills and armors sets get added to the new content, without updating the old content.
People ended up gathering in the latter areas, leaving the newer areas empty.Then, those who arrived later to the party and came from the older areas to the new ones would hit a wall as they didn’t have that tittle or PvE skill that allowed them to join, and those who rushed to the new areas and visited the old ones found that they were either boring, or unrewarding, or both.
They say they plan to add other ways to get precursors and ascended gear. I say they should have prepared those other ways before adding ascended gear at all.
Now the other dungeons feel less rewarding for the troubles they take (as you can see from how often people skip parts of them if they can), and those who arrive late to the fractals after playing other things first will have problems getting into pugs. Making ‘freelancer’ players that decide to avoid guilds feel like second rate players.
Quite Right!, until they do something about the other dungeons and the open world zones to entice players back to this content there is a pocket of players that will be caught on a hard road to hoe to get into exotics.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Why-I-m-never-bothering-with-FotM-again
If nothing else this patch has been a learning experience on how game mechanics affect communities.
I think we all can agree we had a friendlier less divided community a week ago.
In real life I’m liberal and I don’t like the changes so I guess on some level that supports your theory.
But just like real life the truth is finding the balance in the two ideologies is the key to maintaining a working society.
I’m not so apposed to the gear itself as I’m apposed to them centering this gear around a dungeon grind.
Grinding some dungeon a bazillion times makes this game become very small at endgame and ignores this games strongest feature, its ability to spontaneously bring large groups of players together to fight a common foe.
They have killed their open world endgame at the moment and I’m all about freedom of choice. The old top level gear you could get by Karma, crafting or running dungeons.
Today the game has less endgame freedom, and regardless if your political view points might be both sides will agree Freedom is a good thing.
Dear Gamers,
Lately I’ve been coming on here and noticing many new topics on why you all do not like this game anymore. You are disheartened by this or that, and GW2 is not like this or that game, including its predecessor.
As someone who played another game recently, which I will not name, but I’m sure you all know which one I’m talking about, the third part of a very popular dungeon-crawling action RPG series.., ahem..I am seeing the same sort of topics on this forum as on that other game’s forum. Guess what, I no longer play that game.
What I want to say is, I no longer play that game for two reasons. One: it was in fact a difficult game with little to almost no reward for playing the game, and incredibly hard to even find ONE piece of legendary and USEFUL gear. This game does not have that problem. This game is extremely rewarding, and it’s fun to play. Despite it’s flaws, because I won’t argue that it’s not perfect, IT IS STILL FUN TO PLAY! The second reason why I slowly stopped playing that game, and my main point of this post, is that the community told me not to like it!
That’s right!
All of the people who spent so much time coming up with long, argumentative, well thought out posts about the game mechanics, loot rates, skill sets, etc, and with plenty of good points to prove or support their arguments, took the fun out of the game for me!
Now, I know what you’re all thinking: “Well then don’t read the posts!”
It’s hard NOT to read the posts when they flood the forum because all it takes are few people to get this ball of hate rolling. Frankly, leave my game alone. Let me finish getting my exotic gear, my legendary weapons, and let me finish exploring the rest of Tyria. I do not want to come here and see so many posts about why this game sucks or how much you are all disappointed.
Now, we may be going through some rough times here, new patches, it is a brand new game still in its baby stages, but I believe this game will have more content as time goes on, and will become more challenging and also more rewarding. Lost Shores seems like a good example of this.
So please, I beg the gamer community, do NOT ruin my experience of this game by trying to make everyone believe that this game sucks, or is flawed, hopeless, or whatever! If you don’t like it, like someone else said, go that way ->
Leave this community pure, and without so much hatred, anger, or whatever disappointment you may feel. It’s a game, a free one at that aside from the initial purchase price. Let me enjoy my game, and have a nice day.
People have the right to express their disappointment and frustration when a change is implemented that they don’t like.
If you read that complaint and it makes you enjoy the game less perhaps it just woke you up to a problem that was already there and on some level you agree with.
If you laugh at there ridiculous complaint and never think of it again then it’s not effecting you so no need to worry about it.
People are not creating the issues by talking about them they are just making it harder for you to ignore them. Perhaps if you join in we all might be able to get our message hear that much faster and get things fixed.
OP … This was recorded about a 2 months before launch…. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yjxvj2I_CCA
I’ve tried to log-in but all my drive I had for the game seems to have gone …… I guess I’m still in shock that Arena Net went off their meds so soon and derailed their own game?
This is the list of things I think are now broke
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/The-New-GW2-Flavor-Rocks/first
Arena Net, expects new dungeon not to cause player division ….. All is well?
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/A-day-in-Lion-s-Arch
The endgame open world player drought continues….. More News at 11:00
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/PvE-Areas-Abandoned
(edited by Logun.2349)
Honestly I wish there was some communication on what I should expect for the future of the game. Right now, only 3 months in, I assume that this is all growing pains for a game still in its infancy… but a year from now I don’t want to walk away wishing I hadn’t stuck around for so long. That’s what happened with me and WoW and I haven’t looked back since.
The cynic in me says that’s exactly why there is no clear communication of their intent. To string those of us along who would keep playing despite not wanting the game’s new direction to continue because we have hope it won’t. It’s a sound business decision and they need to make money after all.
We’ve all seen that move before, it usually ends in an angry divorce.
Well the Ascended Gear post was finally locked. over 11,000 posts and 222 pages.
I guess they thought it was enough. The funny thing is that the size of the thread now has the attention of the media. More and more sites are finally talking about this change.
The debate about it will continue even if this forum no longer supports it.
And for those that hate the change, the negativity will spread especially to sites people use to make gaming purchase decisions. Already happening but not on a large scale yet.
Arenanet should consider doing something to diminish the growing frustration over this. Silence is a PR tactic but in the Internet age, not a good one. People can express their opinions and find others opinions with just a few clicks. Internet content including forum posts is searchable and can be found even when the original server removes the content.
Ya, I find it very unfortunate they Couldn’t manage just one reassuring post that would appease the masses with some real answers or at least a glimpse into the future of the game so those sitting on the edge like me could make a choice if I’m going to continue with the game or not.
I think players need to be treated like investors not just customers and a certain level of transparency is needed to be maintained as we all invest allot of time on the hobby.
Like any investor that loses faith in a stock we’ll start to look at cashing out if our confidence is diminished especially when unexpected events cause a shift in the condition of your stock.
I hope something good comes out of this, the genre really needs a success story.
I think those who prepurchased should qualify for this role, customers are not really investors though. They should definitely be catered towards and made sure to be happy imo, however,
Not investors in the traditional sense but players none the less make huge investments of time into a game. Most MMO players commit to one MMO because of the time it takes to build virtual property and the connections one makes with other players.
The problem is veteran MMO players have seen other MMO’s change in ways that have destroyed there enjoyment of the game. They can lose confidence in a game overnight unless a new clear path is communicated and fear of what is to come put to rest.
When change starts IMHO that’s when Developers need to be transparent with the community to let players know (X) was the vision but for the greater good we have to do (X) it increase our appeal.
BUT, and this is a big BUT, at the same time a Developer needs to be empathetic to the players that bought into their original vision.
As an example I’m going to bet that if the new tier of gear was marketed to the core player and they provided multiple paths to it open world, crafting and karma then told players it was coming and waited another 2 months to launch it there would have been less outcry.
For one, it would have given players time to enjoy there Exotic gear they just earned and spent a fortune on and or adjust their play style to perhaps focusing on one character to get it into exotics before a tier of gear goes live.
Attaching the new gear to a Dungeon also just makes it feel like the new elitism Raid gear.
I’m sure it would still have had an outcry anyway you try to cut it, the start of gear creep 3 months after launch is unheard of in most MMO circles.
Without a clearer picture from ANet it’s hard to tell where this is going to lead, until I see where this is going my time and money will remain unspent and perhaps invested elsewhere.
OP..I agree, you are precisely correct in everything you said. They really need to focuse on the things they can do differently like dynamic event and fun multiplayer open world content.
Anyone and everyone does a dungeon focused endgame , it’s sad to see them go in that direction.
At the moment, the Ascended Tier is really pissing me off.
So I’m ignoring it.
I have no aspirations to attain it, no will to farm for it.
I’m just going to play the game like I was a week ago.
And if (or when) people start demanding I wear ascended gear, I just won’t play with them. And if everything I enjoy doing requires ascended gear, I’ll just stop playing all together.
MAYBE if (or when) it becomes easier to obtain AND ANet admits to their mistake and declares this is the final additional tier, I’ll be alright.
Until then…nope, not worrying about it. Right now, it’s the only thing that pisses me off.
I ignored a dripping faucet once and came home to a flooded basement, true story!
Is Guild Wars 2 a Different MMO Now….
Well yes and No, It appears to be heading in a direction that’s not for me. Arena Net is reluctant to give us a clear picture of the future so I’m not investing in a game that maybe will course correct.
But here’s how I see it has changed or is changing.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/The-New-GW2-Flavor-Rocks/first
Not everyone plays like everyone else, Id like to see some options in that list.
Like 5 dungeons and 7 Fractals “OR” 100 Dynamic Events …. things like that keep more people happy.
They have to start looking for ways to give players incentive to participate in the open world or there group Dynamic events just fail.
(edited by Logun.2349)
Well the Ascended Gear post was finally locked. over 11,000 posts and 222 pages.
I guess they thought it was enough. The funny thing is that the size of the thread now has the attention of the media. More and more sites are finally talking about this change.
The debate about it will continue even if this forum no longer supports it.
And for those that hate the change, the negativity will spread especially to sites people use to make gaming purchase decisions. Already happening but not on a large scale yet.
Arenanet should consider doing something to diminish the growing frustration over this. Silence is a PR tactic but in the Internet age, not a good one. People can express their opinions and find others opinions with just a few clicks. Internet content including forum posts is searchable and can be found even when the original server removes the content.
Ya, I find it very unfortunate they Couldn’t manage just one reassuring post that would appease the masses with some real answers or at least a glimpse into the future of the game so those sitting on the edge like me could make a choice if I’m going to continue with the game or not.
I think players need to be treated like investors not just customers and a certain level of transparency is needed to be maintained as we all invest allot of time on the hobby.
Like any investor that loses faith in a stock we’ll start to look at cashing out if our confidence is diminished especially when unexpected events cause a shift in the condition of your stock.
I hope something good comes out of this, the genre really needs a success story.
Yup, they just replaced looking for a tank or a healer with trying to find players in the same difficulty level.
I’d P2P if they ripped out this last patch and started taking their meds again.