Guild Wars 2

Roe.3679:

If all skills were single target, wouldn’t it benefit larger numbers even more? I thought the argument was the AOE cap needed to be removed for better WvW, not eliminated completely.

For an organized group, massive single target damage is an instagib of the others. I remember the “spike” groups of GW1 (pre IWAY group tactics) where they would target one person and “spike” on the count of 3. That person would go from full health to 0 in about a second, nothing would save them short of Aegis being up. This was in 8v8 play, imagine the damage output when scaled to 50v50.

You do realize that you can build more than arrow carts and ballistas for defensive siege right? Catapults and trebuchets make fantastic defensive siege if used properly (especially when you wipe all of their supply with the treb or bounce them off the ram with the cata). If done right, you can hold a group 3-4 times your size with well placed siege. Hell, I was in a group of 10 in Hills that held off an attacking force of 40 with a handful of siege on inner.

Just nuke them down and CC them.

Considered valuable by whom?

One condi necro, one 3 kit engi, one shout/heal warr, one trap ranger and one staff ele.

Just enough condi pressure mixed with a fair amount of direct damage pressure and a kitten ton of CC.

Illusions.3108:

i am an engineer, i just find this completely unbalanced that a class can 3-4 shot someone with a tanky build. i am in all rabid,carrion and dire gear.

Swap over to full rabid or run a combo of rabid and dire. Crit is HUGE to a condi engineer. My only piece of non rabid gear is my shield, only be cause I got an ascended carrion drop (and the shield adds toughness as is). Learn to properly use healing turret and blast, you can get up to 10k health if you do it right. Drop bombs and make it painful for the thief to get behind you.

Ragnar.4257:

selan.8354:

Moon.6371:

The king of oneliners is back! You were missed. I fail myself into top200 teamQ within a few games whenever I`ll give it a shot, but you`re right, wvw ganking is best!

omg i just realized that u are from eu. sry. i know in eu servers things are little different and i dont mean that as an insult. ive noticed that during beta testing eotm map. my necro kept 2 shotting d/d eles and other glass cannons when i figured out that u guys were all eu.
well on na servers meta is hammertrain and if you are glass, you’re toast! simple. i run with a zergbusting guild and with our 15-18 players we take down zergs 35-kitten we are no 111 spammers. yes casters will kite the zerg, but none is allowed to run glass as it is considered a rallybot.
try to glass cannon in this (15 vs 2 zergs attacking at the same time)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmjL_jbN1jw

NA such amaze, much wauw, very PVT

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Je7ktc2MHqs

Teach us more about how DPS doesn’t work

Water fields and blast works as well.

Crimson Magdelana.9024:

Oozo.7856:

We were in DB BL first, but it was completely dead. There was nobody to fight. So, we switched to IoJ BL and had the outmanned buff when we first got there.

Keep in mind that DB doesn’t have very good NA coverage. So, if you aren’t in their BL and they aren’t in their BL (but are in yours instead) then people looking for fights during the primetime hours will end up in IoJ BL.

I wont argue with you as you’re a trustworthy and respected dude in my eyes. But of course DB BL is dead when it’s a feeding frenzy on IoJ. If guild groups don’t show, IoJ BL is effed. No offense to our pugs, but they have the coordination of a epileptic white kid at a break dancing contest. With strobe lights. And fog. With spiked punch & free red bulls. But they wreck DB. Consistently.

Just saying night after night & day after day, 90% of any action outside of Eternal BG is on IoJ BL. The other 10% is when IoJ gets brave and pokes the bear on either EBay or DB’s maps.

Otherwise it’s an insanely unnecessary amount of people k-training us on IoJ and no one else takes a dent of damage.

I’m bored for you.

What pugs? Everyone that has been on this week are all regs. I don’t remember many pugs at all, mostly small man teams and roamers coming together against a larger force. Camp flipping on DB or EBay is kinda hard when we are getting DPed.

Prysin.8542:

Steeroth.9684:

I just think all classes have their strong and weak points and everyone should learn to live with that…

I absolutely agree, however i’d like to note that some professions have a harder time then others performing at the same level.

Well, then people shouldn’t play an engineer or elementalist if they cannot deal with such a demanding class (swapping kits/attunements). There is nothing wrong with not being able to play a class to its full potential, there are other classes for you to choose. As it happens, most people can play to the 80% of a warrior’s or guardian’s full potential, therefore more people play warrior and guardian.

Large scale fights also hide many player’s weaknesses because they have so many others to pick up the slack. The same people that zerg around all day will probably not do well in a small scale havoc group when they come across a larger force.

Phenona.9457:

NSP we really loved that Brair Tower of yours, hope you take care of it like we did. Yall worked really hard getting it back, and our guild had a great time trying to stay. ^.^

Hey,
I know you.

glaphen.5230:

Throw Axe is main hand only and Savage Leap has terrible accuracy unless you aim it without a target.

Sorry, got it mixed up. I sometimes use axe/shield. I meant that I use sword/mace.

My savage leap seems to hit. As does the axe throw, the hammer cripple and my sword auto attack #3. If I can keep them locked down, its a win for me.

ClaraFee.2579:

Mike.5193:

Do me a favor, roll a thief, grab a build off the net and start running around in sPvP (just to have all skills and whatnot) and report back.

But… we’re talking about WvW, not sPVP. Thieves facerolling stragglers and roamers in WvW is not the same as doing so in sPVP. Right?

Then do the alternative. Level one to 80 and see how far you get face rolling. The sPVP or hot join will show you the same thing much quicker, it isn’t as easy to play a thief well as you would think. My builds are the exact same for sPvP and WvW and play them the same. Target the 1v1 or 1v2 and go and have fun.

Sword/axe + Warhammer = so much immobilize it isn’t funny. Just use Leg Specialist.

Primefactor.7621:

Mike.5193:

Primefactor.7621:

That was one hell of a battle at SM, feels good to be back commanding in IoJ. Sorry CD but this up-leveled commander isn’t going to let you have the castle so easily, nice try tho. good fights all around let’s keep this up people, and merry christmas!

It is nice to see people from TEST return home and I hope to see more of you in WvW.
Is lambda still hustling for TEST militia? He has been going hard in borderlands and I have learned a thing or 2 from him.

err… I’m not exactly TEST xD I’m one of the CORE commanders who came back to IoJ. TEST took me in pretty much and I enjoy the company. I plan on leading the guild raids with TEST in WvW once we get some more people into the guild so watch out for some epic zerg busting in the near future >:D

Oh you’re one of those 0.o. Glad to have you back anyway and if you need anything, come and find a Lost member.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

HARDOFREADING.7298:

.Recognize that some of us have played Dark Age of Camelot,Warhammer Online,& Star Wars: The Old Republic for almost a decade at this point and are stupid good at the classes/styles we play. GW2 is essentially SWToR 2.0.

It is not exactly hard not to be good with a such a broken class. Sorry but you cant say “oh i am good at other classes from other games” it means nothing. The simple fact is – The stealth mechanic for Thief in this game is SERIOUSLY unbalanced it offers high reward and very little risk.

Do me a favor, roll a thief, grab a build off the net and start running around in sPvP (just to have all skills and whatnot) and report back. It’s true that it isn’t hard to be a decent thief, but good thieves are harder to find than you would think.

You know, because thieves can withstand a strong AOE even when they are in stealth. And they completely avoid all of your attacks in the area they stealthed in. Its like god mode or something.

Trikki.5803:

All this talk about “countered” and “rock/paper/scissors” doesn’t mean a thing in large scale WvW. A FT Engi will just suicide in just a few seconds. FT spec is the closest thing we have to a heavy melee set and its completely useless in the situation that it was built for. Large groups is the only place the FT damage is even viable yet every large group in WvW has Retal.

Toolkit is more melee than flamethrower.

I had no idea that turrets were viable.

The original IWAY did HoH without any healer class whatsoever. 2 rangers and 6 warriors if I remember right. (might have been 1 and 7)

Bump for a great commander and player. This dude can teach you some things and I highly suggest looking him up if you are on TC.

Iconoklast.2389:

Rabid engineer. The elite is so good and can sway a team fight instantly. Also you can fly around the map with perma swiftness and rocketboots. You also have plenty of vigor, blinds, and regen. Once you get a hold of the class it is very hard for someone to outright beat you in a 1v1 or even some 1v2’s depending on skill/classes of the other players.

Eww, rocket boots.

Caffynated.5713:

Mike.5193:

Class balance is fine

IoJ – [Lost]
Tuck and Roll: Warrior

^

Caffynated.5713:

Every time I see one of these threads insisting that balance is in a good place I instantly think “this guys is either a warrior or a thief roamer (check post history). Yep.”

100% accuracy guaranteed.

The only class I do not play is a Necro. Whats your point?

Class balance is fine, player skill balance sucks. Such is the name of the game in MMOs though. Someone grabs a build off youtube or reddit and stomps on some uplevel pugs and thinks he is the greatest. Then that person rolls up on someone who:
a) knows their class
b)knows their enemy’s class
c) created their own build for how they play
and gets wrecked. Then they cry online about how the person with the higher skill’s class is oh so OP and needs to be nerfed. Keep getting stomped by a class? Roll one, learn to play it and how to defeat it. Oh and learn how to dodge and read skill animations.

1/2 those classes get slept on in WvW because over 50% of the people cannot play them within 60% of their skill requirements. Not every class is like a warrior where the skill cap is low.
Engineers are nasty when played by someone that knows the class. I have won numerous 2v1s and a few 3v1s on my engineer (I have also lost my fair share). This is one of 4 classes that require an in-depth knowledge of the class and their build in particular. This is NOT a class you can just grab a build off the internet and roll face with.
Rangers can pump out HUGE amounts of condition damage. My ranger has north of 2k condition damage with a full stack and food, people melt under my burning, poison and bleeds. I also have another build where I can frontline with warriors and burst people down. It is about the player, not the class. I do not run around with a longbow and a bear. I do keep a longbow handy for towers though.
Guardians are mostly build full AH support, I decided to break from that mold. My guardian’s build is a little selfish, but works great for front line and roaming. 2v1s are funny, I have enough sustain to keep myself afloat and can still kick out a butt ton of damage dropping both people.

Primefactor.7621:

That was one hell of a battle at SM, feels good to be back commanding in IoJ. Sorry CD but this up-leveled commander isn’t going to let you have the castle so easily, nice try tho. good fights all around let’s keep this up people, and merry christmas!

It is nice to see people from TEST return home and I hope to see more of you in WvW.
Is lambda still hustling for TEST militia? He has been going hard in borderlands and I have learned a thing or 2 from him.

mango.9267:

BirdSong.2541:

Lord Kuru.3685:

unknownchaos.1425:

Athena.4682:

Just a shoutout to my beloved XOXO friends in NSP.. the “heartseeker” thief you were referring to was my guildie and yes, RI. Just to let you know that he’s less than 1.5k achievement point, basically a newcomer to GUILDWARS. ^^

Cheers!
PS. I just heard it from someone in my guild that you guys love to make fun of people so I’m responding to let you know WHO you killed.

SALUTE

Its ok.. The big bad meanies of XOXO are all gone. The guild is disbanded , the players are scattered everywhere.. Most of the good players xfer off nsp. For more active PvP.

Thank you
Obs

Rip XOXO

Ironically, if NSP had tanked into Bronze league (every other server near the boundary of a league tanked) then we’d likely be seeing a revitalization of NSP’s WvW right now — that’s exactly what happened with HoD.

Its almost as if..
all the people on NSP who knew how WvW worked..
predicted that..
and tried to get into Bronze..
While the bads screamed for silver..

AMAZING

/patpat

We didn’t even get a chance to “tank”, even if we wanted to. We lost 5 WvW guilds (including 2 very large guilds), countless commanders, and a number of independent ship-jumpers the Thursday before Leagues started. There was no way we belonged in Silver, yet we still somehow survived after 7 weeks of being farmed, and we’re beginning to rebuild now. Here’s to hoping NSP does the same, since I can’t help but sympathize with the only other server in Silver who could understand what it’s like to never see a WP in any of their keeps for 2 months.

And out of everyone, I miss Nom the most.
We are rebuilding, you can tell because both IoJ BL and EB were queued last night. We have had great people in IoJ BL for the past week and a half holding it down.

As for last night, great fights at IoJ and CD Hills.

There have been some good fights all weekend, I hope to see them continue.

Truman.8294:

Hahaha [TUNE]/[NUDE] Will out class anyone with or without clothes.

Especially when camping OS. True sign of really classy players right there, camping a kittening jumping puzzle.

I would rather see the top 3 servers from gold silver and bronze match up together for 4 weeks with the last week being the 3 servers with the highest score. gold vs gold, silver vs silver and bronze vs bronze. Allow spectators via a web portal and watch the good fights. Give them some loot and everyone will be happy.

Mochann.5298:

Who needs trap builds for fire fields hitting 1k a second, when you can get an Elementalist spam perma lava fonts hitting for 2-3k a second? Followed by Meteor which is the best skill to clean battlements and destroy ACs.

Along with 4 water fields, one of which is also a giant waterfield that strips conditions. Elementalists can do everything Rangers can do, only better.

However, Rangers are more survivable than Eles by quite a bit. So if you can’t handle being as squishy as an Ele, then Ranger may be the next best thing, but it really doesn’t compare IMO.

As for Mesmer dazing…. all those hammer warriors have Balanced Stance (some of them have Last Stand, so they even do it automatically) so it doesn’t do a thing. Feedback doesn’t affect Elementalists who are spamming lava fonts and meteor swarm.

Eles are squishy as hell, no way around it. A dead support player provides no support at all (unless they support the other team by being a rally bot).

As for mesmers v hammer warriors, balanced stance and last stand don’t do kitten when they are in a null field.

It has been a good week to level. I got my mesmer to 36, my engi to 34 and my thief to 28. Going to go heavy on the engineer, need to level LW and huntsman so there are another 14-15 levels. Nothing like 3 kitting your way to victory!

<3 the idea. More slow kitten people for my arrow carts to ruinate.

IoJ has a few, we have had one in the server’s TS before as well.

EvilSardine.9635:

ROFL. That’s one horrible player. Keyboard turning and skill clicking. No wonder he needs a bunker build and zerging to play the game.

These “bunker healers” are comical when you run into them in a small fight. You just completely ignore them in the fight and kill all their friends and just save them for last. Such easy kills. Nothing funnier than staying behind the keyboard turners as they try their hardest to slowly turn around to face you.

What is wrong with skill clicking? I use the keys for 1-5 and click 6-0 and do just fine, never can blame my lack of hitting those skills to my demise.

Trap builds are very viable in WvW, who doesn’t like a fire field in the middle of a blob hitting people for ~850-1k a second (depending on might stacks)? Who doesn’t like 6 stacks of regen in a giant water field that strips conditions? Who doesn’t like reduced heal for the entire enemy blob?
Engineers have condition for days, stealth, CCs and a huge water field that doesn’t go away until the turret does (2 if you run supply drop).
1 Mesmer can shut down 15 people with one skill, who doesn’t like up to 15 people dazed at once. Buh bye hammer train. It is a survivable squishy class, due to the amount of damage avoidance it has. Feedback + back line = dead back line. For some reason, people love to stay in that kitten. They aren’t just there to veil, portal and timewarp.

Tibstrike.2974:

Ansilon.6230:

Tibstrike.2974:

Ansilon.6230:

Tibstrike.2974:

Man Jay. You are really kitten about everything aren’t you?

Aren’t you on the wrong forum thread?

I missed the Bunses gifs And Karns trolling.

:-/ too bad CORE band-wagoned to FA for an easy win.
now, shoo shoo fa.

And here I was being nice. You caught us though. We bandwagoned so hard. So so hard. And we did it on purpose to screw over IoJ. Now you guys have to pull yourselves together again! Curses. We were found out. kitten . At least IoJ is full of uber-players now with so much loyalty that it falls out of their ears. But man! That gold dolyak finisher is the only thing we wanted though. That plus the blues and greens we will get for winning will be all worth it. So glad we bandwagoned. For serial.

Nope, you just cried when people came to you for help and decided you couldn’t deal with it. So you left for a different server. Must have been tough to have one of the largest WvW guilds on the server with a constant population in TS. Its not like people went to the Mend or Hard channel for help either…

hooma.9642:

Mike.5193:

hooma.9642:

Solstice.1097:

many ways to counter a thief they are just not as obvious as fighting other classes.

strafe when he’s stealthed so he can’t get behind you.
anticipate his attacks and use dodges and blocks
use CC’s to control his movement
knock/pull him out of refuge if you have a skill for it
certain class-specific techniques work very well also

put conditions on him before he stealths

please read the thread.

Please get some skill and learn to deal with different classes other than your own. God forbid you run across one of my builds that are based on my understanding and usage of the classes and not the meta, you would probably think I am hacking or something. Every class has CC and every class uses AOE to some extent. If you don’t want to take them, don’t whine about things these would prevent. That is like whining about a lack of survivability running around in zerker gear.

please got some brain. yeah all classes have some aoe and cc. BUT not all BUILDS! i dont has access to all my skills if im running a certain build. so your whole argumentation is just false. and u hasnt read the thread or u had noticed that he used my pet or the pets in wvw as stealth bringing target if he noticed i was dodging. and even then all it did was delaying him 1 second. every ranger has some kitten pet that cant dodge and act as a source of stealth kitten.

You have 3 options in this scenario:
1) Keep crying and getting stomped into the ground.
2) Build with some CC.
3) Stop playing GW2.

My power/crit ranger build has 8 forms of CC. My condition/trap ranger build has 3 AOE fields and 4 forms of CC.

Protip: If you don’t build for CC, at bring a wolf as one of your 2 pets. AOE fear is great.

Because they are lying. Every class has a use in WvW.

Tibstrike.2974:

Mike.5193:

Tibstrike.2974:

When WvW resets there is approximately one second where the interface is reloading. If you are at a portal you can hit F and start loading into WvW right away. In servers like FA that one second loadtime can mean the difference of getting in or sitting in a queue for hours.

Cry moar. I feel horrible you jumped ship to stack a server and now can’t get into WvW.

We did this on IoJ too Mike. Maybe you weren’t playing at the time but we still had queues on IoJBL and EBG on resets.

In the 3 months I have been on IoJ, I haven’t had an issue getting in on reset night. I go from the mists and listen on TS when they say it is live.

Spade.1374:

kbenton.4915:

Runehand.9368:

Spade.1374:

Hey it’s Zaturday! This is my first post on here.
Thief (D/P) Outnumbered fight with [XOXO] and [GHW] of NSP vs YB Zerg
(6 vs 15+ Yaks Bend)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyyFNxe_rQs

DAT RESOLUTION.

Dat spec that is about to be nerfed rightfully hard. Stealth stackers… yawn

There is an alternative to perma stealth without the init stack/regen needed (me and my friend have tested) , just don’t wanna spoil until December. D/P perma stealth shall live!

Oh joy, once that catches on thieves will just get nerfed harder.

Tibstrike.2974:

When WvW resets there is approximately one second where the interface is reloading. If you are at a portal you can hit F and start loading into WvW right away. In servers like FA that one second loadtime can mean the difference of getting in or sitting in a queue for hours.

Cry moar. I feel horrible you jumped ship to stack a server and now can’t get into WvW.

Who is ready for another fun filled week of leagues?
I know I am, this coming match-up is the only one that IoJ has a chance to win all season.

Keira Ferland.5619:

I’ve not seen 1 solo roamer yet. Everyone in both IOJ and Ebay always travel in groups of at least 3.

If you want to play, I am sure we could set up a time tonight.

Tibstrike.2974:

Mike.5193:

Banzie.5248:

Visirale.6097:

Why are we talking about tier queue servers in the silver league thread?

Because some of us still need recruits :l

We need to shift the super dedicated PvE players into WvW. They have the coin and gems for another set of armor, the dedication needed to win and a decently high skill level already from running around in zerker gear and staying up for such a long time in dynamic events. We have a rather large playerbase, but it seems like the same 80 people on in WvW all the time.

I say we institute a “Bring a PvE player into WvW day” where we get linked up with a PvE player that is playing the same class as you and run them around EB and a BL or 2 and teach them the intricacies of WvW.

I don’t know about the decently high skill from learning to dodge. Seems like every time I’m in PvE I see 20 people get one-shotted by bosses and champs when they should be able to dodge. If you want the really good PvErs you probably should recruit from people doing high level fractals at least. Not your run of the mill event chain warriors.

There are quite a few in dynamic events that can hold their own, outside of the 20 that wipe there are at least another 60% that don’t. I am not referring to the queensdale or frostgorge group, I am reffering to the ones that take down world bosses like Teq and the ones that run fractals (that have an abundance of ascended rings in their bag looking for a use).

Banzie.5248:

Mike.5193:

Banzie.5248:

Visirale.6097:

Why are we talking about tier queue servers in the silver league thread?

Because some of us still need recruits :l

We need to shift the super dedicated PvE players into WvW. They have the coin and gems for another set of armor, the dedication needed to win and a decently high skill level already from running around in zerker gear and staying up for such a long time in dynamic events. We have a rather large playerbase, but it seems like the same 80 people on in WvW all the time.

I say we institute a “Bring a PvE player into WvW day” where we get linked up with a PvE player that is playing the same class as you and run them around EB and a BL or 2 and teach them the intricacies of WvW.

Theres something like that in place, Look at the official IoJ forums. So far its been a catastrophe with the amount of “Im the best in the game” egos brought in from PvE.

Though that said its not as intricate as you said, its simply PvE players in wvw.

There is nothing like that going on at all

matty.4907:

Took IoJ’s approach to sieging up a keep.

Bust down these gates and…

BOOM 98 ballistas to the face SON.

So IoJ, Am I doing this right??

Nope, not enough in the lord’s room, you need to toss a cata or 2 in there, you forgot the treb and you have completely ignored the proper AC to ballista ratio. How can you get 2 people to spread shot a zerg while a guardian wall is up when they aren’t exactly 400 units away from each other.

Proper ratios are as follows:
2.5 ballistas to one AC
2 ACs to one cata
3 catas to a treb.

Don’t forget the stealth trap on the door.

Banzie.5248:

Visirale.6097:

Why are we talking about tier queue servers in the silver league thread?

Because some of us still need recruits :l

We need to shift the super dedicated PvE players into WvW. They have the coin and gems for another set of armor, the dedication needed to win and a decently high skill level already from running around in zerker gear and staying up for such a long time in dynamic events. We have a rather large playerbase, but it seems like the same 80 people on in WvW all the time.

I say we institute a “Bring a PvE player into WvW day” where we get linked up with a PvE player that is playing the same class as you and run them around EB and a BL or 2 and teach them the intricacies of WvW.

Banzie.5248:

nightraven.4513:

Fun fights again for me. Although we win the open field fights most of the time in EBG both Yaks and IoJ fight kitten hard to hold their towers. I know the commanders before weren’t able to get OL all day. I don’t know where you guys got the supplies but they just kept coming lol. You guys held strong throughout that fight, props to you guys.
E
+1 to IoJ for taking everything else while we were fighting for OL. I don’t think anyone noticed until after the fight. kitten you for foiling my golem rush on your keep before I went to bed. I must say for being the underdogs you guys have my respect for stating out and trying!! See you all on the battlefield again.

Were you commanding in ebg NA prime last night? If so Y U RUN AWAY FROM MEND SIEDED QL T.T, if not sorry I’m just extremely sad we couldn’t farm 100 people there..

Can we expect another video soon? “Why are you running away, we just want to play?”

Andrew Clear.1750:

Banzie.5248:

Eis.6984:

I suspected IoJ was in the wrong tier, but I didn’t know how wrong it was until this week. Ouch

We’d be far more on par with both your servers if people didnt leave Thursday before leagues. We probably could have won quite a few matches if those guilds hadnt left and with the amount of PvE players we’ve recruited and turned into WvWers recently.

Yep, those are the true bandwagon guilds. Once they knew that the league would be 6, 9, 9, and knew IoJ wasn’t gonna get first, they bolted (core being the true bandwagon heading to FA).

But, that is their right, and I hope they are enjoying their new homes.

I feel sorry for you, IoJ, and how you have to suffer in silver league. When it is over, atleast you will have some good matches with the bronze league servers.

Try to enjoy the rest of the week, IoJ, and the rest of the season. Sadly, you have to face FA twice.

The FA match-ups are not bad things as it will bring more (angry) people into WvW just in hopes for spikeing (and screenshoting) a CORE member.
IoJ WvW is in the process of turning WvW casuals into hardened WvW vets, it is just a slow and arduous process. Mend and Hard are running amok, burning everything in their path. Our “militia” are getting better at listening to the commander and not being afraid to wipe when smashing into a zerg twice your size (thanks for being perfect test subjects SBI). People are starting to stop caring about PPT and are just running around for fun, trying different tactics/builds/groups. We are learning more when failing, as it shows where we are messing up and where we need to build our skills. It will just take time.