Guild Wars 2

Anet needs to get over this stupid amulet idea and give us armor with stats the same as pve so we can actually have some control over our own stats.

However saying that at the very least I would like to see something akin to valkyrie with crit in the place of healing power.

Half of your attribute points come from trait points and for specs like shatter you get 300 condition damage, what a giant waste of points.

Then to cap off the stupidity you get a neck piece with minimal stats and you can’t even place those stats where you want them.

What this game really needs is attribute point distribution and trait point distribution to be two separate entities as well as giving us more control and more stat point to allocate from gear in spvp.

There’s a glaringly obvious reason why there’s more diversity in WvW.

Mbelch.9028:

Hey Ozii,

I’m in the camp that switches a lot. I own two identically skinned Knight’s armor sets with two different runes on them. On one I have boon duration, the other divinity runes.

There’s likely a better in-between, but I appreciate them both. I find this to answer your question (and I run several variants of the 30 arcane, some with 10, 15, 20 in air, 10 in earth and anywhere between 10 and 30 in water.):

My sustained damage is great with boon duration. It’s incredible in a larger 5v5 fight, also incredible in a smaller fight, but you do have a higher chance of things stolen from you. At the same time, that’s unlikely. Having fought hundreds of duels in the past few days, I’ve had several boons ripped, never one stolen. That’s not to say it hasn’t happened. With Boon Duration, I have permanent protection, 20 stacks of permanent might, permanent regeneration, permanent fury.

With divinity, I feel much more bursty. Where I might hit 6k with a fire grab, i’d hit 7.5 maybe with divinity at it’s highest. I mostly use my Boon Duration now, but this is still a good set. It stacks 13-16 might stacks permanently, but the biggest pain is ensuring I have fury when I need it.

I found my inbetween to be 2 Traveler, 2 Water and 2 Ruby Orbs. Gives me slightly less damage than Celestial if I have my boons stripped but is far superior to both Celestial and boom duration when I’m stacked. The only draw back is that there’s less room for errors in terms of might stacking but I feel it’s worthwhile for that little extra flexability.

I will preface this with while I believe a D/D ele mobility is okay and I can like many others make it work, but there is still room for improvement.

A little while ago I made a thread about turning RTL into a flat 40s cd instant teleport. After reading some of the responses I still believe that a change like this would be incredibly beneficial to the class because it would allow more synergy between attunements without the need to carry particular utilities (looking at you lightning flash). However some posts made very good points that D/D could stand to gain mobility, but if RTL was reverted not only would D/D gain mobility S/D would gain mobility and I’m not sure that a change like that would be balanced but then I don’t play S/D.

So outlined below is two changes that I believe would add mobility to the D/D set, smooth out a rough skill and add some synergy; along with my justifications.

Ride the Lightning: 1200 range instant teleport 40s cooldown. This would give some synergy to Churning Earth and also allow for D/D and S/D eles to get out of rough situations that might otherwise end them. This would also give us the ability to out maneuver people around vertical terrain. Which as a low armor, low health class would be greatly beneficial. Currently it is so unreliable and for the most part goes on the full 40s CD and for what it is I don’t believe for a second that it is worth that kind of cooldown.

Magnetic Grasp/Magnetic Leap: Now called Magnetic Rush, 900 range leap (function similarly to bulls rush) dazes target and immobilizes them for 2 seconds, 15 second cooldown. This one could be borderline OP because of the daze how ever I think the daze is needed because you would be getting into melee range of your target and that kind of move can be incredibly risky, the daze would allow you that second to adjust your self. This would also help fill the gap that was caused by the RTL nerf and remove a skill that just feels awkward (Magnetic Leap).

Fishbait.6723:

Ah oopsies, sowwee
<blush>

While I think linking any kind of videos is pointless due to meta changing and other things within the class being nerfed here’s some stuff. You’ll have to forgive me for the lack of variety, I lost my old youtube account with my old subscribes.

Yes I know the distance on rtl has since been fixed but this still shows the distance the class was capable of gaining on demand.

This one you can see him kite out and reset and by the time he comes back RTL is already back up. You can also see he just uses it when ever its up.

Here’s one of my favorites from the glory days.

Here’s a good one of daphoenix running circles around people pre nerf.

I do get where you are coming from, other classes have so much disengage that its absurd. If it was up to me I’d be bringing their mobility down as well, but it’s not. Rather than bringing our classes mobility up to them I would rather see something that’s going to help us fight rather than run and open up further build options for the class. Having the ability to disengage from any fight no matter the class is without a doubt overpowered versus the classes that don’t even have that as a possible option. I’m sorry I played pre RTL nerf and it was just too faceroll.

Not you Fishbait it was in response to Gallrvaghn. I actually enjoyed your post and havent yet had the chance yet to respond.

Wait you just commented on how daphoenix kites zergs but kills nothing while while complaining about mobility? Because kitten logic?

Nikkinella.8254:

There’s tons of videos of eles kiting around zergs but never killing any of them. You rarely ever see even daphoenix kill anyone except when he manages to escape the zerg and a couple idiots chase after him and he manages to kill 1. On the other hand, there’s also tons of videos of warriors charging directly into groups of 20+ alone, killing most of them, and still managing to run halfway across the map when his health gets low, regening to full and returning to finish off the rest of them. Yet ele is OP because it used to be able to harass groups of people and get away and never kill any of them. I just love the ignorance of some people sometimes.

That there is a warrior issue, which anet has agreed needs to be toned down so I wouldnt bother comparing classes.

So people like daphoenix who kite groups of players around without any issue don’t exist? I’m sorry but I fail to expirence or see the issues that apparently are so rife in the community.

Gallrvaghn.4921:

Mithfir.1038:

LordByron.8369:

Mithfir.1038:

RTL back in the day was overpowered .

stop using that word…
Look at other profession skills

Look at elmentalist…and his cloth/low HP short range style

If you say that our mobility is fine you never played elementalist…
You can no longer follow anyone …even a mesmer can disengage a D/D ele without any problem as its now.

Even without looking at warrior or thief or ranger mobility….. a profession locked in short range NEEDS mobility.
Remove it and you have a bad version of the warrior of 6 months ago.

Sorry to say but just because other classes have it isn’t a justification for us to have it, which also sadly has been stated by the devs.

And the devs were always right.

No but what’s easier convincing someone to work within their beliefs or get them to change them?

LordByron.8369:

Mithfir.1038:

RTL back in the day was overpowered .

stop using that word…
Look at other profession skills

Look at elmentalist…and his cloth/low HP short range style

If you say that our mobility is fine you never played elementalist…
You can no longer follow anyone …even a mesmer can disengage a D/D ele without any problem as its now.

Even without looking at warrior or thief or ranger mobility….. a profession locked in short range NEEDS mobility.
Remove it and you have a bad version of the warrior of 6 months ago.

Sorry to say but just because other classes have it isn’t a justification for us to have it, which also sadly has been stated by the devs.

I’m not sure how everyone else feels but to me RTL symbolizes everything that is wrong with the class. Now don’t get me wrong I don’t think there is a whole heap wrong with the class, but having said that there is so many situational skills ranging from Dragon’s Tooth and it’s absurdly long hang time to Burning Speeds AoE firing off early in heavy lag.

RTL back in the day was overpowered I remember just spamming it without a care because I knew it would be back up pretty soon. At this point I really don’t see anything wrong with our mobility, sure the sustained mobility has taken a dive but our ability to open gaps rapidly is still just as strong. This is why I don’t see it as an issue because I can out maneuver other people, because of this it would in my opinion be nice if it was changed to a teleport. It would allow us to move around terrain far more easily, we would never get immobilized mid RTL and locked out of skills like we currently do and would allow for more synergy with other skills such as earth quake or churning earth. All the while our sustained mobility would be the same.

In my opinion the class needs changes like this, our attunements should have synergy between them rather than feeling like a seperate weapon set.

Dont believe I was making reference to lack of mobility but rather lack of reliability but okay thanks for your uneducated rebuttal.

I believe the 40 second cooldown is fair, but what we get for that cooldown is in my opinion is subpar.
I frequently find it going on the full 40 second cooldown just because I lagged a little.
So whats the point of having a conditional cooldown on a skill when the skills ability to function correctly is conditional?
My suggestion is to make RTL a ground targetable instant teleport on a 40 second flat cooldown.
Not only will this solve lag issues with the skill it will add support for churning earth without the need to take lightning flash. It will also increase our ability to move around changing terrain in combat.

oZii.2864:

juno.1840:

oZii.2864:

Treborlavok.3504:

juno.1840:

Agree with Tei — remove the trait and give the “boon on attunement activations” as the new Master Minor.

Agreed, if that’s all the “fixed” LE is going to do… Make the arcana 15 the current elemental attunement and get rid of LE. Keep renewing stamina as VI. Then remove the ICD on evasive arcana and then arcana will be fine.

Then leave water as is, and work on fire line because it’s garbage.

Fix signets and cantrips and boom, class is playable again across the board.

What replaces the 5 point water trait? Soothing mist is basically regen that can’t be stripped or corrupted. The base could be brought up a little imo.

Nothing replaces it — it’s fine. We said dump “Lingering Elements”… not the individual element buffs themselves.

You then need a new trait to replace Elemental Attunement then if it would move to 15 points in Arcana.

I would pick up something like windborn dagger if that happened and quite honestly it would probably be a little bit of a buff.

If you are that concerned that Renewing Stamina and Elemental Attunement are going to be too available why not get rid of Lingering Elements and put either in that spot? Or better yet move Elemental Attunement to 25 points removing arcane precision and ensuring high investment is required? Because frankly I find RNG condition proc pretty useless and IMO it’s not even close to worthy of 25 points.

As others have stated the changes to both renewing stamina and elemental attunement for the elementalist is just plain wrong. I can’t think of many if any patches where D/D hasn’t been nerfed and here we are again? Absolute crazyness. As many other have stated we have so many useless minor traits, why is it not being moved to something like lingering elements? I just just can’t fathom the reasoning for annihilating a build that’s been viable since release just to try and ballance traits that we the player base haven’t even asked for.

Well I guess my waining time in game is going to finally come to an end all together which is pretty kitten sad after I’ve stuck it out after every nerf.

If you actually spend the time to min max as a D/D ele you’re able to build quite tanky while throwing out some good damage. But 90% of Elementalists just like to slap on clerics and complain about the lack of damage we have.

I must say I have been a fan since your first video as I like to watch fellow D/D eles who use different builds to the one I run to get ideas. Kudos on another great video.

My only criticism is I notice you tend to spend in my opinion too long in water attunement, I tend to get into water and then straight back out again to maximise healing and condi removal. This means that I almost never get to use every skill in water attunement but also means I become far more tanky because of the more frequent healing and condi clears.

Psy.7386:

If it helps I’m just looking for, powerful enough to win a 1v1, with a decent enough chance at surviving. Balanced pretty much. I tried Zerker, literally didn’t make it out of the top half of the Battleground lmao

Can’t help you sorry, my armor, runes and sigils are tailored to my specific play style. What works for me may not work for you. For instance Drastic.8920’s set up wouldn’t suite me at all. That doesn’t make his choice any less valid or make it any better or worse than mine.

Psy.7386:

What about the gear I got on now, how is it? Knight’s armor and weapons (lust and battle) Po/Pr/To accessories, with like one beserker amulet. Armor has two major runes of melandru, and four major runes of water.

That would still be too defensive for me, though by the sounds of it you’re still in the process of gearing up. Play around with gear don’t be afraid to break the mold that is how you learn.

Psy.7386:

How do you know when a set works tho? How do you seriously test it against other players, when you could be easily killed when you get jumped..I’d think it’d be very hard to get a 1v1 in WvWvW

Well as my skills improved high survivability became a liability to me because I couldn’t kill fast enough and I would almost always get jumped. So I started swapping in piece that gave me more of an edge offensively. Eventually I got to a minimum amount of defensive stats that I was comfortable with and ended up with the set I currently use.

If you’re curious my minimum is 2.5k armor and 15k health and I don’t run any healing power other than what I gain from traits and boon duration runes.

Blix.8021:

Solstice.1097:

D/D ele has a high skill ceiling as well as a high floor.

its not the easiest class/build to play. you have to constantly chain through 25 skills at all times. not recommended if you dont like pushing a kitten-load of buttons.

Sorry, but d/d ele is incredibly easy and leaves lots of room for error. 25 skills is nothing compared to most mmos.

That is all dependent on how you build your gear and traits.

Psy.7386:

Man, all these runes and stuff and different gear, knight, celestial, etc, just confusing ot me

I started with PVT armor/weapons with Cleric’s accessories and swapped out piece and changed runes as I tried new things.

I still don’t understand how people can possibly think D/D ele is horrible. I’ve been running 0/10/0/30/30 since I first rolled my ele. My traits, skills and gear has evolved as my understanding of the class and philosophy of what the class is has changed. I still comfortably 2v1 in most situations unless the player I’m versing is quite competent. The class is fine as it is, sure you have to work harder but that’s what’s rewarding about it. There’s plenty of combos and possibilities people just fail to see beyond the standard rotations.

DevonCarver.5370:

The stat boost, while controversial, is there to give the buff meaning in the context of the general WvW battle. Providing boosts like %WXP, etc. don’t have impact in fights against other sides, they are just a nice bonus for you. The stat boost and the points for finishing players mean that not only do you want to have the buff, but you don’t want your opponents to have it.

Typically I have nothing but good things to say about the choices you make however this is so half baked its not even funny. You’re very clearly trying to appease people who like to roam/small scale pvp by making smaller objectives that they can fight over, but giving a stat boost is so misguided.

Instead of creating a smaller map akin to classic battlegrounds you’ve gone an created something that is very clearly targeted to the crowd in question but have also gone and screwed them over.

This is just poor time management and game design.

Kodiak.3281:

Mithfir.1038:

@Kodiak.3281

Well currently one can summon the fire axe drop a fire field and go into a blast finisher chain if they wanted to. I have actually used it like this before as well. I have also slotted fire axe and used it to get a killing blow. How ever increasing the cooldowns of more powerful skills so they can only be used 2-3 times for the duration that conjure is up in my mind keeps it balanced.

Having the ability to add charges to the weapon you currently have will still cause the same issue of using it for 1 skill and then dropping it. While I realise that it will be a very close idea to that of engineers kits the draw back would be the charges and the long cooldown on skills. Engineers kits have no charges and ideally would have significantly shorter cooldowns even when our conjures are traited.

That picture is EPIC had me in stitches.

Simply increasing the recast timers (and you also mentioned duration) is really just a lateral shift of the current scenario. All conjured weapons have a 60s recast currently. Most of their stronger abilities are on a 20-30s cool down. The more you increase the cool downs the closer you get to using the ability once every 60s which is no different than the current model. The farther away you get from that and the closer you get to it not being balanced because not only will you still have access to those abilities quicker than once every 60s but for the remainder of the time while the conjure abilities you wanted to use are on cool down you now have full access to your normal abilities.

By giving people access to the Conjured Weapon abilities and allowing them to return to their normal abilities you’re undermining that balance aspect to conjured weapons. Your method of balancing it doesn’t really change anything in the current scenario let alone balance it.

I agree with your analysis but lets keep in mind not only the original way conjures were made but also the way Elementalists function at their core. A 1 use non instant weapon will almost never be picked over a instant utility except in a very specific set of circumstances. So really there is no change in the current form that you or I could agree on. In your ideal situation how exactly would you like to see them? I’m genuinely intrigued.

I feel like I should also point out that Anet obviously intended for all the charges to get used, but in their current form that won’t happen in most builds bar a few.

Navzar.2938:

I adjusted the skills so that you can actually use them as temporary weapons. As they are now, the auto attack is just a waste of charges, so people stand there and wait for cds or they just blast off a few skills and drop it.

I figured if the auto attack was strong, then people good actually use the strong skills and then keep fighting with it while waiting for cds. Of course with this model your major limiting factor is the number of charges.

It’s a solution but here’s where i see the flaw. Elementalist is inherently weak if you stick to 1 attunement, given this the conjures would have to be very strong to compensate where they could offer something that someone would want. Now what happens if for instance they buff lightning hammer and you give this buffed lightning hammer to a warrior? It would be way too powerful on him but okay on us.

@Kodiak.3281

Well currently one can summon the fire axe drop a fire field and go into a blast finisher chain if they wanted to. I have actually used it like this before as well. I have also slotted fire axe and used it to get a killing blow. How ever increasing the cooldowns of more powerful skills so they can only be used 2-3 times for the duration that conjure is up in my mind keeps it balanced.

Having the ability to add charges to the weapon you currently have will still cause the same issue of using it for 1 skill and then dropping it. While I realise that it will be a very close idea to that of engineers kits the draw back would be the charges and the long cooldown on skills. Engineers kits have no charges and ideally would have significantly shorter cooldowns even when our conjures are traited.

@Blaine Tog.8304

I frequently use my FGS as a mobility tool to give to my friend in WvW to assist him in getting away (his a mesmer). The ability for us to give something to other classes that they might not have is very cool, how ever keeping something that could be very useful and useful in many situations in a state that’s for very specific circumstances doesn’t really work well in my eyes. But hey that’s my opinion.

Navzar.2938

I don’t think adjusting the skills so they are more powerful is really going to solve anything but hey any change is good.

Guile.9103

I agree that would be really nice if nothing else was done. I would love to see FGS cast time cut down by 1/4 of a second and be able to be cast on the run as well as the changes you suggested. But I would really still like to see something substantial happen to conjures.

Spiuk.8421

It’s not that they aren’t good. It’s that they are only good in very set circumstances and those set circumstances rarely happen outside of PvE dungeons.

flyingfox.6150

Without charges it has no limit and just becomes a clunky engineer kit with a long cooldown.

ensoriki.5789

I had this idea a while ago however no one seemed interested and really it is a huge re-balance so the time frame on any sort of improvements would be quite large.

JuniorSB.7089

Seems overly complicated but if you feel like elaborating go for it. I agree that removing the cast time more specifically on FGS or lowering it and making it cast-able on the run would be a good start as the others don’t bother me so much. But I would like to see something significant happen.

Kodiak.3281

That picture is EPIC had me in stitches.

It is an interesting idea. I would keep the conjure times to 1/4 of a second personally, that includes FGS currently the long cast time and lack of being able to move stops me from using it in a combo effectively. Though I have been able to pull off Updraft + Summon FGS + Fiery Whirl when I have had things on cooldown to finish someone off which can be really cool and satisfying.

How ever what I was thinking was either have the pull effect on the conjure only trigger when you’re in the corresponding attunement or have the cooldown for the pull lowered if you’re in the corresponding attunement. Either I think would be fitting.

Zelyhn.8069:

Let’s just hope some dev reads this and gets inspired!

We could make a suggestion post, but we would need many people to back it up in order to make it stand out

I just can’t wait to see my hammer RTL towards me

Well that’s what I’m hoping for that it gets enough views that someone looks at it. Just need more people to post to keep the thread healthy and constructive. More ideas the merrier.

Zelyhn.8069:

Ah yes very nice!
So the passive of the utility would be the conjuring part, and the active would pull the weapon right into your hands!
This is brilliant !!
So the active could have a medium cd, maybe even a cast time or whatever.
I really like this!

Yeah possibly have the range of the pull tied to the range of the weapon. For instance have the Longbow’s pull further than the Hammer.

Zelyhn.8069:

they could even make different type of pulls for each weapon.
The hammer could be pulled very quicly to you, no cast time
The axe could take a cast time but leave a fire trail on its path to you
The shield could pull you to it instead
The bow could leave a water field in its place
something like that

Some many cool possibilities!

That would be very cool and allow for some pretty nice plays, though I feel that if that were the case pulling the weapon to you would have to consume a charge or at least have some kind of significant cooldown. But it is a very interesting idea. Thank you got me thinking about some pretty neat things.

Zelyhn.8069:

Thanks, I appreciate your appreciation

The grounded part of the conjures has to remain, it’s core in the concept. The issue with this idea is that it removes the conjuring-into-your-hands part, you are right.
I could actually see this used in PvP quite a bit!
For example I sometimes use the shield when I am wielding the focus, this is because the focus provides no aoe interrup (unlike the dagger), so the shield allows me to prevent mass stomps by aoe pulling my foes. But I have to plan for it so much that it fails half of the time …
Notice that all conjures have a movement spell included in their arsenal, so having to walk back where you dropped it is somehow compensated by its availability and fluidity: you can use more of these movement spells.
Also teammates would be more likely to use them, since they could expect the conjures to pop on a regular basis. People would learn to play with them.

I could see it working it would be very difficult to pull off but it could be very rewarding. It is a interesting idea.

It actually gave me an idea. How do you feel giving the Elementalist the ability to pull the conjure weapon to them once they have summoned it say in a 300-600 range? It would still offer group utility but makes it easier for the Elementalist to use for them selves in a solo scenario.

Good suggestion it has actually got me thinking about different possibilities.

Zelyhn.8069:

Yes I edited my post with an idea

Just saw it =).

Zelyhn.8069:

A realistic idea:
When you have a conjure utility slotted, you will drop the conjured weapon at your feet (with less charges and time) when you swap out of the corresponding attunement.
This would solve the problem of their clunkyness, keep the group aspect of it, and act in in a similar way as fresh air if you see what I mean. Actually I love my idea.

It’s not a bad idea its a realistic option. The only flaw I can see with it and in my opinion probably the killer is in mobile fights. If you happen to drop it while on the move you may not be anywhere near it to pick it up again when you want it. Which is kind of a bummer.

From a PvE perspective I could see that being a very viable and logical solution but then on the flip side within PvP content I cant really see it working as well.

How ever I can also concede that it would open up more of a thought process when involving conjures in relation to when and where you drop it so you can easily pick it up if you want it again.

But then there is the aspect that Anet has gone out of the way to make this game layered but still are its core simplistic so it can be enjoyed by everyone and adding such a feature I also fear would complicate the use of conjures further.

Could I make it work for me? Yeah probably could. But would it be the optimal decision for the larger community I’m not so sure. That said I really like the idea and if it could be made into something well fleshed out I would be all for it.

Zelyhn.8069:

Oh and also, once they fix lingering elements I’d like to see this trait grant the attunement bonuses to conjure’s spells and its wielder for a duration. But now that’s wishful thinking!

God I hope they just do something with lingering elements that is more useful to the class as a whole rather than a few specific traits.

Zelyhn.8069:

Wishful thinking, wishful thinking everywhere .. Get real, guys!

The core mechanic of elemetalists is indeed to swap attunements. It is very well done, but tricky. In fact if you look at it generally, in terms of damage:
-fire: direct damage + condition
-air: direct damage
-earth: conditions
So whether you go for condition damage or direct damage, somehow you have two attunements that are optimal for you. Attunements have a base recharge time of 15s. So, theoretically, the recharge time of your optimal damaging state is 15/2=7.5 seconds, which is lower than the other classes recharge times. The issue is that when we are not in those optimal attunements then we are quite suboptimal, that’s why many elementalists prefer to be tanky and faceroll attunements with arcana.
What I mean is that we do not need a weapon swap. We do not need conjures to be similar to engineer’s kits either. This would be extremely redundant.
However I am not saying there are no issues with conjures.
You just need to be realistic and keep in mind the core concepts of the game.
Their wish is to give us group utilities, that’s why the conjures drop a second weapon, it’s not necessarily just for us. There are utilities, so think of them as such.

It may be wishful thinking but hey got to throw it out there if you want change right?

Oh no doubt there is a team aspect to it but really what does it offer to a team? Realistically? If we were to look at it purely from a team perspective they are just sub-par. Other classes can build for the same effect all the while doing it far better.

Really for what it offers us and a team you can get far more out of a different utility.

I thought for what they have already implemented my suggestion was quite fair and in keeping with the current theme of conjures with changes that make it more useful to us. How ever if you have any other ideas I’m all ears, class analysis is something I love to do even if I don’t play that particular class I love to have a deeper understanding of mechanics within the game.

Ill break it up in bit’s so its easier to write.

Red Jay.2516:

Whatever happens with conjures, they should get rid of EITHER timer OR charges. As of now, having both makes the skills extremely restricting and unfun, if not frustrating to use. Having duration of 2 minutes is fine and dandy, but it will never last so long with measly 25 charges, which are quickly eaten away by auto attack.

The point is if you can swap out of it freely you wouldn’t be chewing it up with auto attack and if you were it would function exactly the same as it does now. Conjures by their nature are intended to be limited which is fine the class is already so versatile some restrictions need to be implemented. If this be in the form of charges on our abilities that let us further expand our skill base then to me that is balance and it is fair.

Red Jay.2516:

As for the support element of sharing the conjure. Tell me, Blaine Tog, how many times your group mates used your conjure weapon for purposes other than novelty factor of swinging it few times and dropping it off? The idea of giving allies new weapon might sound great on paper, but the reality is it simply does not work in game. 90% of people won’t bother picking it up the second time.

Agree 100% it is currently not offering us as a class anything besides very situational benefits.

Red Jay.2516:

Now to you, Mithfir. You say you don’t want conjures to be the same as kits. However, your suggestion of dropping and re-casting is basically that; a less elegant and more restricted version of Engineer utilities, only with limited duration, charges and long cooldowns. Not mentioning it would be nightmare to balance, for reason stated below.

The limit is there for a reason. Could you imagine if I had of made the same suggestion without charges or restrictions it would just be too OP. Having 20 weapon skills and then another 5 with little to no restriction? That doesn’t sit well in my mind. So within my suggestion I believe this is how balance would or should be achieved.

Red Jay.2516:

Now to your critique of my* suggestion of having the weapon tied to specific attunement. You say it replaces a viable attunement with another viable weapon. I fail to see where is the problem with that? Doesn’t weapon swapping of other professions work exactly like that? You swap your weapon for a second one, and can’t return to the first one for few seconds. It can’t be more dynamic than that. Having conjure weapon on top of 20 other skills would be too much. There has to be a tradeoff, just as with other professions’ swapping.

Agreed that there needs to be a trade off. How ever if we were to go the route of having it exchange it for it’s corresponding attunement you would ultimately find that it would only benefit specific weapon sets and on top of this would cause certain weapons to need to be redesigned. Which then turns into a full redesign which is what I am trying to avoid with my suggestion.

Red Jay.2516:

The current mechanic of conjure weapons can be described in one word: clunky. The core issues: long cast time, limited duration, restricting charges promoting cast-and-drop playstyle, losing all your attunements for 5 skills that seemingly never left the work-in-progress status. All that mades conjures weak and unviable in general play, apart from few very specialised and limited builds. Your suggestion is nice, but it builds around these core problems instead of solving them. Conjure weapons need to be redone completely, not just increasing duration and cooldown and forcing us to take even more traits to make them viable.

100% Agree that they are clunky and should be redone from scratch. But the reality of the situation is that for this to happen we may be waiting a very very long time. I would much rather see a work around happen in a shorter time span to see if they can be salvaged or made useful before the entire thing is scrapped. I do feel that if these changes were made they could and would be viable in every build and have some merit to a point. I don’t think the trait would be necessary how ever it would be very nice which is the point of traits.

Blaine Tog.8304:

Regardless of what happens with Conjures, we shouldn’t remove the second weapon dropped. Being able to share our weapons is a big part of what makes these weapons cool in a collaborative environment. Restrict the second weapon to other players if you must but don’t remove it entirely.

Mithfir.1038:

Agreed it is good but with my method you could use multiple conjures at once giving way to new possibilities if you were able to manage all of them. Also the idea of a permanent conjure seems at least to me OP.

You’d think that, but we’re already pretty much at that point with the current system. Cast a Conjure and you get two weapons lasting up to 60 seconds each for a skill with a 60-second cooldown. My suggestion didn’t remove charges, so you still couldn’t sit in Lightning Hammer and autoattack indefinitely — you just also wouldn’t feel like you were wasting a bunch of the skill’s potential by firing it a few times and dropping back to your other skills.

Agreed in it’s current form it is a massive part of them. However I am trying my best to propose the least powerful way of changing them to draw the attention to the fact that they can and should be changed. If that means we lose the second weapon so be it. It will give us as a class more possibilities which is never a bad thing. But then on the flip side if Anet by some miracle sees this and agrees it is a good idea but feels it’s too under powered they could possibly keep the secondary weapon.

I know what you were trying to achieve and it is a good idea don’t get me wrong at all. I like it and if it was done I would have no complaints. However having said that I would really like to see the possibility of multiple conjures being used at once. The plays that could be made would be amazing!

Caffynated.5713:

I like the weapon swap idea best.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/Conjure-Weapons-Weapon-swap/first#post

Agreed it is good but with my method you could use multiple conjures at once giving way to new possibilities if you were able to manage all of them. Also the idea of a permanent conjure seems at least to me OP.

If the changes I proposed came to fruition they could function exactly as they do now minus the the secondary weapon and slightly longer cooldowns with the added ability to be able to be chain into and out of the conjure. I see basically zero downside except for 1 particular build. More build diversity or keep it functioning as is for 1 build seems misguided in the least.

Now I know a lot of people at this point are going to be saving WHAT! But keep with me while I lay out the remaining purposed changes.

4. Change the VIII trait Conjurer in the Fire line so that as well as gaining 10 additional charges and all conjure weapon abilities gain a 20% reduction. This will allow not only more attack to be made with the conjures but also allow those attack to occur more often.

5. Change the conjure total duration time to 2 minutes. This is to help balance out the increased cooldowns so you can potentially cast some of those longer cooldown abilities 2-3 times.

6. While the conjure buff is still active and the Elementalist still has charges they are able to drop and re use the conjure at will. How ever every time it is re-summoned it will cost 1 charge. This will allow for chaining into and out of the various conjures but also restricts exactly how many times you are able to move into it cast 1 ability and then move out.

7. Conjured weapons have the same cooldown as they do now except that the will not go into cooldown until all the charges have been used or the conjure buff runs out.

These changes will hopefully allow for Elementalist’s to get some coverage on their weak spots. Eg Frost Bow or Fiery Great Sword for D/D or Lightning Hammer for staff ect.

I do realise that this will need a lot of tweaking, most likely in the department of travel distances for Fiery Rush and Fiery Whirl because if that was to be combined with RTL on short cooldown Elementalist Mobility would at short crazy. How ever this would only last for 2 minutes and then would be followed by a 3 minute cooldown.

How ever I believe with these out lined changes conjures can and will become what they should have been from the start as opposed to the clunky way they have been implemented.

1. Remove the second conjured weapon that drops down, it’s not really needed. I know some people are going to be unhappy because they like dropping a FGS and stacking Fiery Rush and Fiery Whirl into a stationary target to take it down quickly. But for the sake of balance in what I am about to suggest this is something that as far as I see would need to go and I fail to see the point of holding the class back for a situational benefit.

2. Make every conjure instant cast. This will allow seamless transition to the conjure and allow it to function similarly to an attunement swap. This will preserve the fluidity and dynamic feel of the class.

3. Increase the cool downs of the conjured weapons abilities so they are comparable to that of what you would expect to see on an untraited weapon set. I would expect it to look something like this.

Frost Bow

Frost Volley 12 seconds
Frost Fan 18 seconds
Ice Storm 32 seconds
Deep Freeze 44 seconds

Lightning Hammer

Lightning Leap 14 seconds
Wind Blast 34 seconds
Lightning Storm 26 seconds
Static Field 40 seconds

Magnetic Shield

Crippling Shield 12 seconds
Magnetic Surge 18 seconds
Magnetic Shield 34 Seconds
Fortify 50 seconds

Flame Axe

Explosive Lava Axe 12 seconds
Burning Retreat 20 seconds
Ring of Fire 15 seconds
Flame Leap 25 seconds

Fiery Great Sword

Fiery Eruption 12 seconds
Fiery Whirl 22 seconds
Fiery Rush 26 seconds
Firestorm 42 seconds

Conjured weapons have been getting discussed a lot lately so I thought it was time to put together a detailed post getting to the core of what makes them unique and why they are currently a less viable option than other utilities and how this could be changed to benefit the Elementalist.

Elementalist’s at their core need to change attunements, there really is no two ways about it. Even after traiting for shorter weapon cooldowns we are still plagued with some of the longest weapon cooldowns of any class and as such Elementalist’s will change attunements a lot to keep dps and pressure up on our target. How ever
here in lies the massive issue with conjured weapons.Taking a class that is built around using every tool it has at it’s disposal and forcing it to use 1 weapon and only 1 weapon is a sub par idea at best. It’s not even comparable to weapon swapping on other classes. Not only this but the very way they are currently implemented is
clunky and uninspiring to use. Taking such a dynamic class and shoving it into 1 weapon set for up to 1 minute so they can feel they have used their utility slot to its maximum potential is just plain silly.

In my mind I see conjured weapons functioning in a way that compliments the Elementalist’s chosen weapon set to cover their weakness whether that be melee or ranged combat, but not to the point of a Engineer’s kit. It should function in a way that is dynamic and flows to such an extent that you are able to combo into them and out of them.

The main suggestions I have been seeing are conjured weapon replaces which ever its corrisponding attunement is or having them outright function like an engineer kit.

While both of these are good starting points they are seriously flawed. The first option essentially replaces a viable attunement with another viable weapon which
realistically fails to address the issues of making it dynamic. Having said that though, if the weapons were completely redesigned to give something that a normal attunement is missing that could be a viable option. But at the end of the day that option is going to be a long road with lots of work that Anet probably cant invest in
at this particular point in time.

The second option takes what in my option should be considered Engineer specific class mechanic and gives it to Elementalist’s. Which 1 will severely upset the Engineer community no matter how it is implimented and 2 cuts down on class diversity. We should be encouraging Anet to give each class their own flavor not mixing and matching.

TGSlasher.1458:

I agree with all of your latency issues. I live in Australia 300ms if I’m lucky. When Anet were asked about Oceanic Servers I believe their response was something along the lines of, we have asked people from Aus and they say there is very little affect of lag on the game. Not to mention that it is so hard (costly) to setup any kind of servers here lol.

I stopped using /D due too Flame grab, Lightning Touch and RTL not doing as intended. People complian about RTL being 1500 pre patch. It would take you to about 1500, then rubber band you back to 900-1200. Now it takes you to 1200, to rubber band you back to 600-900

Yeah I am in the same boat as you I originally mained a Guardian but swapped because melee was just too painful at least with D/D I can still enjoy the melee play style due to the extra range rather than getting spammed with miss.

Utilities:

Healing Skills: I think our healing skills on the whole are all fantastic options with their own flavor and realistically don’t need to see anything done to them.

Cantrips: I feel that the changes done to cantrips has been fair and inline. Previously cantrips essentially offered you the ability to do most things, break stuns, clear condis, ensure stomps, damage immunity. While triple cantrip is still my preferred utility set up I now need to choose what I would rather have and build accordingly.

Lightning Flash: I like it in its current form. Don’t hate me but I think the nerf was required. Triple cantrip had the ability to do a lot while countering everything. However that being said I think the cool down is a little too much for a class that requires lots of mobility to function optimally I feel that 30-35 would be fair while still ensuring its not spammable.

Cleansing Fire: No complaints, the nerf was fair.

Mist Form: No complaints.

Armor of Earth: This is a great utility I now use it over Mist Form so I can continue to apply pressure to my enemy through stuns/knock downs or use it to stomp people. However the cool down is just too long. I feel that 60 seconds would be more appropriate.

Arcane: I dont have much to say about arcane. I think the lack of a stunbreak was the main thing that was missing from arcane. Otherwise I think the obvious focus on being offensive is represented well.

Arcane Wave: No complaints.

Arcane Blast: No complaints.

Arcane Shield: No complaints. I think adding the stun break was the major change the skill needed to be truely viable.

Arcane Power: No complaints.

Glyphs: Glyphs I feel are great. They encourage pre planning. However I have very limited expirence with them. So my complaints are only minor.

Glyph of Elemental Power: Fantastic skill now that it has a stunbreak, however the amount of weakness that can be applied with it is just too powerful. Through good positioning I can keep weakness up on multiple targets with great uptime which is just too powerful. It’s just way too much and can be used to such a high degree by skilled players.

Glyph of Storms: No complaints.

Glyph of Lesser Elementals: No complaints.

Glyph of Renewal: The cast time it flat out too long. I think 1.5 seconds would be a fair cast time. Currently its usability is very low just because of the sheer amount of time that is required to cast it.

Signets: I don’t have a whole heap of experience with signets other than a little testing so I wont have a whole heap to say.

Signet of Fire: Nice amount of burning damage, could be great in a condi build but since we don’t see many if any condi Ele’s it’s hard to say.

Signet of Water: No complaints.

Signet of Air: Fantastic utility now thakittens a stun break. Having said this though I feel like if you have no target it needs to be an AoE blind around you. While I’m not sure if this is possible it would be a much needed change.

Signet of Earth: No complaints.

Conjures: I have close to no experience with conjures simply because I feel there is something that is severely lacking in the whole concept so at this point I have nothing to say about them individually. I think that to make them truly viable the charges need to be removed from them, you need to be able to drop and re equip them within the 1 minute that they are able to be used for and finally they need to be instant casts.

Elites:

Glyphs of Elementals: Great love it to bits, no complaints.

Conjure Fiery Greatsword: Other than the glaringly obvious faults with conjures on the whole no complaints.

Tornado: Very situational how ever is still a worthy skill. No complaints.

Hey guys I’ve compiled a list of weapon skills/utilities and my perspective on each of them. I feel it is important to note while I do play with all weapon sets at times I do mainly play with D/D as I love the play style to death and as such I will only be commenting on that weapon set.I’ll leave the commentary of the other weapons to those who are far more experienced than my self.

Dagger/Dagger

Fire

Dragon’s Claw: Great skill at point blank, but being so close to an enemy is so counter productive, its not allowing to me to take advantage of the fact that the skill has 400 range. I think the area that each line can hit in needs to be expanded. Otherwise I feel that it is a fantastic skill.

Drake’s Breath: No complaints.

Blazing Speed: It needs to be fixed, When experiencing high ping the travel distance is reduced and AoE blast is released towards the start of the animation rather than the end.This is a big one simply to keep similarity between spvp-wvw. In spvp I use it to get into people faces. Then in WvW where I experience higher latency I use it as a way to move away from my opponent while still applying damage to them. Both uses are fantastic but it would be nice if it functioned the same way all the time.

Ring of Fire: No complaints.

Fire Grab: Still not reliable especially when experiencing high ping.The margin by which you hit or miss is very small and for players like my self who experience larger pings you not only need to worry about the player dodging it but you need to ensure you’re positioning is immaculate.

Water:

Vapor Blade: Other than the 600 range it just doesn’t feel like its worth using. Damage is insignificant and the vulnerability only lasts for 5 seconds. Would like to see the vulnerability duration increased possibly to 10-12 seconds. I feel that this would make it’s use much more significant.

Cone of Cold: No complaints.

Frozen Burst: No complaints.

Frost Aura: No complaints.

Cleansing Wave: No Complaints.

Air

Lightning Whip: No complaints.

Lightning Touch: No complaints.

Shocking Aura: No complaints.

Ride the Lightning: When you’re experiencing high latency the skill is incredibly hard to hit unless used at point blank which which often causes the skill to go on the full 40 second cool down. Which ruins the whole concept of using it as a gap closer. Which then in turn locks players into the use of certain utilities to make up for this. Other than that I think the skill is fine and every change to it was well deserved.

Updraft: Like Ride the Lightning this skill can be really hard to hit when experiencing high latency. Other than that the skill is perfect.

Earth

Impale: No complaints.

Ring of Earth: While this is a minor thing. If the projectile block is intended it is very hard to use as the window of time is so small. Maybe this needs to be looked at, possibly giving a buff to block projectiles for 1 seconds or something to that effect could make it more reliable and user friendly.

Magnetic Grasp: Projectile is too slow, because of this you cannot reliably use it as the snare/leap combo it was intended to be. It more often than not is used close to the target to keep them out of your face.

Magnetic Leap: After cast is too long. 99% of the time it is far more beneficial to immobilize and move in normally.

Earthquake: No complaints.

Churning Earth: This is the big one for me. Its great to open a fight or use when you have cover but once a fight has started its very difficult to use, becomes in my opinion obsolete which is counter intuitive to the blast finisher attached to it and requires you more often than not to take particular utilities to make use of it. I would like to see it usable while moving, have the cast time reduced to 1 second and have the direct damage reduced by half. I feel that this would give D/D eles a reliable/fast way of stacking high amounts of bleed which is all too important while engaging people at melee range.

Linnael.1069:

Mithfir.1038:

Bahaha you’re using full berserker gear with a trait set up to match with a melee weapon set, you’re delusional. Any melee class rolling berserker gets stomped on by anyone with a clue.

If you’re willing to completely kitten you’re self that’s your issue not the classes. I have hit as high as a 12k burning speed on a bunker guardian and I still have 2.5k armor with 15k health.

You’re knowledge on other classes is so far off it’s not even remotely funny to the point where I can’t even be bothered it would take me so long to correct you.

I’m sorry but it is a L2P issue nothing more nothing less (I wasn’t going to say it but you bought it up).

Here’s the difference between you and I. You think Berserker D/D is so impossible that it must be making me fail. I am good enough to play it well and recognize problematic trends.

I really try to avoid doing this, but you irk me so what the hell. Message Cuffs and ask him about the elementalist he dueled on SBI the day before yesterday. I have a feeling the thief ranked 286th in NA has a clue.

The limited options I talk about in those reasoned posts that you haven’t bothered to refute are a maximum capacity limitation. Berserker D/D plays well up to 1v2 situations. The problem, and the reason the playstyle doesn’t match up in a balanced way, is because the build breaks down once your opponents have too much outgoing damage relative to the incoming damage as a whole that their entire group takes. Playing in a 5-man roaming party and running into another 5-man rapidly shows the problems here, as all our defense options require survivability stat investment, and without them are only small patches on a gaping wound. Compare this to the myriad of other melee berserker builds out there for other classes, that have active defense independent of stat investment, and thus fare much better in 1vX / XvX situations.

In summary, you seem to be under the impression that I’m complaining about the class not being good enough. What I’m actually doing is pointing out that a certain playstyle, following the example set by other professions, has every right to be viable up to a much higher level than it is currently, but is limited by a set of passive defenses rely more on statistics than skillful gameplay.

I’m laughing my cheeks off at 12k btw. Dem bunker guardians these days.

Any class running zerker gets melted its not an ele issue its the way the game is. Zerker Thiefs have nothing if their burst fails, Warriors have nothing once their combo fails, Mesmers are highly susceptible to condis once their burst fails, Zerker Guardians are highly susceptible to being kited see the pattern?

I don’t think it is an impossible play style but instead of looking at your build objectively and saying what are my weakness’s you’re looking to classes who you feel are better which is insignificant because believe it or not their zerker builds have their own weakness’s.

Look at your own build objectively and identify where its weak and work with it instead of looking and comparing to other classes because believe me they all have their own weakness’s.

Raven.9603:

you are really missing his point. the reason that damage-heavy d/d is non viable is because there is a lack of any defense without going water or arcane and our class has terrible starting stats. there needs to be some good, solid, defensive traits in fire and air, similar to final shielding and automatic-armor-of-earth.

and you’re flat out wrong about other classes. there are plenty of successful high power/crit damage thieves (active defense: stealth), rangers (active defense: evasion), warriors (passive defense: armor and health), guardians (passive and active defense: armor, aegis, huge base heals), mesmers (active defense: clones, stealth), and as of the latest patch, necros (passive and active defense: health, deathshroud).

Ele’s can get an active defense by using evasive arcana and 15 into water, but that pretty much rules out being able to do comparable dps. add onto this the lowest hp/armor, and we have to give up more damage than other classes just to gear our survivability (armor/health) to a level they achieve for free.

I’ll break down each class that you mentioned individually and how I would go about countering them with just the skills on the D/D weapon set. Though I have limited time at the moment so I will try to get through what I can. Note I always engage in Air.

Thief: Shocking Aura then Updraft if he used Basilisk otherwise just Updraft. Swap to fire when he is on the ground, at this point he is most likely expecting to cop a Blazing Speed so he will Shadow Step so fake him out by using Drake’s Breath. Now he has most likely used Steal to engage you and Shadow Step to get out of your Updraft assuming he is D/D he is going to be running at you to try and stealth again this is when you use Burning Speed to keep distance on him to prevent this follow up with a ring of fire. Swap to earth depending on how close he is I would probably go for Magnetic Grasp first and get a few auto attacks off. At this point he is most likely going to try and throw down a refuge so I would quickly chain into a Earth Quake followed with a Ring of Earth. At this point they are usually dead or close to so if I need to I will follow up by swapping to Water and using Cone of Cold.

If he is running D/P you can use the same sort of tactic but attack around his black power since he will be leaping through it for the stealth.

Warrior: First thing I do is kitten what their opening weapon is. If its a Rifle I RTL in and throw up Shocking Aura expecting them to Rifle Butt me. If their opening weapon is Great Sword, Hammer, Axe I keep my distance and wait for 1 of 3 things, 1. Bolas 2. Bulls Charge or 3. Which now brings both scenarios together. If they hit you while you have Shocking Aura up and stability pops up you have a couple of options depending how they engaged you. If you are stuck in Bola’s I would Updraft towards the end of the chain to mitigate the final parts of the chain or if I wakitten with bulls I would go to Water and throw up Frost Aura. If you’re lucky to live through it my next move would be to use Frozen Burst to keep them snared. Then switch to Earth and use Magnetic Grasp followed by Ring of Earth while keeping the gap open. Essentially the rest of the fight would go like this keeping distance while looking for stability to make sure you don’t burn skills in vein.

As I said to a Mesmer friend of mine who was kittening about condi’s. Identify your builds weakness and try to mitigate it as best you can. My builds weakness? Stuns and Daze. How do I mitigate it? Intelligent use of terrain to mitigate damage when I am unable to defend myself.

Bahaha you’re using full berserker gear with a trait set up to match with a melee weapon set, you’re delusional. Any melee class rolling berserker gets stomped on by anyone with a clue.

If you’re willing to completely kitten you’re self that’s your issue not the classes. I have hit as high as a 12k burning speed on a bunker guardian and I still have 2.5k armor with 15k health.

You’re knowledge on other classes is so far off it’s not even remotely funny to the point where I can’t even be bothered it would take me so long to correct you.

I’m sorry but it is a L2P issue nothing more nothing less (I wasn’t going to say it but you bought it up).

katniss.6735:

Are you people replying even playing WvW as D/D? Because none of those things matter anymore.

The buffs that the other classes received over-ride the lack of buffs that D/D got. Staff is moderately better when played, and amazingly better on paper. Condition builds are still horrible.

Yeah sure am and I’m still able to 1v2 without even thinking about it. Funny thing is I’m still using LF, CF and MF because nothing else appeals to me all that much.

Ugh shocking aura now breaks blurred frenzy, frost aura grants an additional 10% damage reduction, updraft is a dodge usable while immobed, ring of earth cripples, earth quake knocks people down, lightning touch gives weakness which is now amazing, Frozen burst snares people and Magnetic grasp immobs people. To add to this every skill has a 300 range on it. Which puts you out of range for melee and able to negate other classes defensive abilties like black powerder.

So many USEFUL abilities that people go and use just because they can with little thought about how they could use it to benefit them. D/D is an amazing weapon set if you’re having a hard time defending yourself with it you’re doing something wrong.