Guild Wars 2

The point is, you are comparing Eles to other classes doing one (or two at best) things better (burst, survivability, etc.). The only other class that can have decent survivability, great AoE dmg, great AoE CC, good AoE support (heals, cleanses for Ele, Smoke Bomb, Thrown Elixir R for Engi) , decent single target dmg, high mobility at the same time is the Engineer.

The difference between the two is the Ele is burst focused (= Power), where the Engi is condition focused.

My point is, what if I dont want best burst class, because I already have a Thief in my team? Sure, I could bring another one, but that reduces versatility of the team.
What if I want little bit more anti-condition, but dont want to bring another Necro, because it is not good at roaming?
What if I want a class that can adapt and fill most roles relatively well? Being good at everything, but not best at any one thing may be a disadvantage, but it can also be an advantage.

BlackBeard.2873:

The thing is, eles are in a bad place in pvp currently. You can find some eles at lower levels where teams don’t play as well together or where skill levels are vastly different. However, at the upper tiers, eles and mesmers are non-existent b/c we don’t bring anything to the table in the condi-meta that dominates.

Didn’t Car Crash bring an Ele to the PAX prelims? They may not be the best, but I would certainly consider them to be “at the upper tiers”…..

BlackBeard.2873:

or you go S/D cheese burst, in which case you might as well play thief and have more survivability via evades/stealth and team support with shadow refuge.

On the other hand, Thief doesnt bring buffs, AoE dmg/CC/heals/cleanses, so its not like the Thief is better at everything.

Nikkinella.8254:

^I don’t particularly care whether you believe me or not. My shouts do in fact heal over 3k, so something about your math is wrong.

Thats like: “Yeah, your mathematical proof means nothing, compared to my own completely unbacked claims…..” or “It’s true, because I said so…”

silvermember.8941:

Other classes could not bother with their 4th and 5th trait lines and still be viable or at least strong enough to survive.

Have you ever seen a Guardian build?

bulent.7391:

Also you can charge with it yea. Do your jump of death (if you don’t get knocked down at mid-air)into your enemies to get slammed with your undefeatable medium armor.

Right, just like D/D Eles never engage anything in close range, because they are Light Armor class…. oh, wait.

Armor type of the class doesnt really matter, Engineer can survive in melee way better than most classes and it has nothing to do with his armor.

ARM.3912:

The Game Slayer.7632:

Look dude, the class was NOT destroyed. I can still play my ele with fun! Yeah, it got nerfed pretty hard in terms of wvw roaming. But that doesn’t make it destroyed.

So you have video proof?

Hah, two can play this game…..Do YOU have a video proof backing your statements? :P

Vayra.3290:

JonathanSharp.7094:

So I looked into this, and I thought it was fixed. Are you still seeing it? Where are you seeing it? What’s getting through? Keep in mind that condition damage will still tick, but NEW condies should not be able to go through.

Since we can no longer cleanse conditions in mist form I think it’s a bad idea to let them still tick. Even if it does not remove the conditions it should at least prevent the damage.

Engineer’s Elixir S works the same way (and all the other Invulnerabilities, I think), so you would have to change them aswell.

I am pretty sure I was knocked down by Guardian’s Line of Warding while in Mistform (not Vaporform!), three days ago (not sure if there were any patches that might have fixed this). This happened only once and it was in WvW. I have never been stunned/knocked/feared in sPvP while using Mistform.

Also, the Mistform probably works fine most of the time, even in WvW (or for most CC skills), because otherwise I should be stunned WAY more often while “Mistforming” away from enemy zerg.

Redscope.6215:

LightningBlaze.4913:

ARM.3912:

Yes, how dare users want to play in WvW.

What’s stopping you? I still roam and zerg in wvw with my ele and I do it way better than when I go with my mesmer, warrior and ranger.

You can’t say that!

This is a QQ forum. You switch to the QQ attunement here son!

BEST COMMENT EVER !

LordByron.8369:

pantsforbirds.9032:

There is a lot of miss information in your post, and its fairly easy to tell you are biased.

said the guy with 90% posts in thief forum….

Well, if it makes you happy, I have no posts in the Thief forum and I completely agree with him….

FlamingForce.6389:

That doesn’t take away the fact that he’s capable of winning the fight if he connects with 1 stun, the warrior also has a 0.25 cast time stunner that inflicts a whopping 3 secs of stun.

IF HE CONNECTS the stun (which lasts 4 seconds with Sigil of Paralyzation, I believe), thats the important part. And that is only if he stuns you when you are not standing in your Smoke Bomb, or next to Big Ol’ Bomb.

Also Warrior will usually not go for the kill with his first stun combo (because he is low on adrenalin and because he will want you to waste your stunbreakers/defensive cooldowns on low duration stuns).

You have perma swiftness, he can have long lasting (but not perma) swiftness if he uses his Elite Signet, he has one ranged cripple with slow projectile speed and very obvious animation and two gap closers (and their range is also greatly reduced if the Warrior is slowed), all of these are on Greatsword.

If the Warrior gets in melee range and swaps to the Mace/Shield, dodge or use shield #4/#5 and kite him while throwing cripples/chills/immobilizes to increase range. He has literally no means to get near you unless he swaps back to the GS and that would mean no stuns.

The only utilities you need to look for are Berserker stance (short duration, long-ish cooldown, immunity to conditions – there you make use of your dodges, stuns and knockbacks) and Stability (there you make use of your dodges, blinds and slows). The third utility is usually conditon wipe, but can be another stun breaker, or Bull’s Charge.

FlamingForce.6389:

You’re just trying to make it sound far worse then it actually is, warriors are extremely dangerous for the stunbreak-less engineers running around these days, just because we’re not completely defenseless doesn’t mean the warriors aren’t a big threat.

Skullcrack Warriors are dangerous to most classes in 1v1 fights. Engineers are one of the few classes that can beat them even without stunbreaks. So no, not a hard counter….

FlamingForce.6389:

Stunlock build is practically a hard engi counter.

No it is not. You have two AoE knockbacks, block/stun, blind+AoE blind+pulsing blind field, AoE chill, AoE immobilize+cripple, perma vigor, either Elixir S or Elixir R (with their thrown versions) and an AoE stun elite. The Warrior has two gap closers, three if he slots Bull’s Charge.

Deneb.2697:

If I wanted to just do 1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1 pick-up hammer
with the hammer… wouldn’t I make a warrior wearing an heavy armor?

I don’t know, would you?

This might be what you are looking for:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Top-50-SOAC-Stunningstyles-Tpvp-Build-Video/first

I play both Ele and Engineer regularly (both in sPvP and WvW) and have no problem switching from one to the other. You just need to get used to it, just like you need to change your playstyle when switching from ranged profesion to melee….

Terrahero.9358:

The bomb on 3# has such a long wind up before its ready, why is the Engineer still downed when this becomes available?

Maybe the enemy was focused on something else (like caping/defending a point, fighting with your teammates, etc.), or maybe he got interupted by #2 when stomping, because he wasted all his “stomp skills” (Elixir S, Mistform, etc.) on defence during the fight (with you or your teammates).

Terrahero.9358:

And 2# is countered by just about everything, Blind, Aegis, Stability, LoS, Stealth, reflect projectile. Plenty of ways to avoid that pull. Besides the obvious “dont stand somewhere he can pull you down” or just dodge the super obvious animation and projectile.

Guess what… plenty of things you wrote counter #2 downed skills of most classes (except Ele, Mesmer and Thief, obviously…). On top of that, Necro’s Fear can be cleansed (it is a condition after all) – it still interupts the stomp, but I am sure you get what I mean.

True, some skills are very hard to dodge, but if you are dodging , you are certainly not finishing that stomp.

Terrahero.9358:

And that is just 1 sPvP map where this might be an issue. None of this applies to PvE, WvW or any of other other PvP maps.

One map, huh?

Battle of Kyhlo, mid point, you can easily knock enemies down from the platform(even better if you manage to knock them down the stairs). You can also knock enemies from the “Trebuchet” hill (this one prolly only works on unaware/bad players, or if they are focused on one of your teammates).

Spirit Watch, any one of the bridges/ledges work well, especialy if you manage to get the Orb carrier.

Temple of the Silent Storm, midle of the map (near the mid rune thingy), you can easily knock enemies to the underground cave (and it is looong walk from there). The Bridge near Altar and the Stairs near Temple work too.

Sure, none of these are as deadly as the one on Skyhammer, but in tPvP, every second they are running back to the point you have just knocked them of, they are not stomping you, they are not interupting your teammates trying to ress you, they are not capping the point and they are not killing someone else.

The main reason this doesnt work nearly as well in WvW is because people generaly dont stomp, they DPS cleave the downed players, so they are obviously not in range (Guardian’s #2 suffers from this aswell]. This and the map design.

Terrahero.9358:

Abnd still there are plenty of ways to counter my stomp interupt. How many counters are there for an Elementalists stomp interupt? Exactly zero.

Thats the advantage of Ele/Mesmer/Thief downed skills, they guarantee the stomp delay and they only help you. They cannot be used to help someone else (unless you count repositioning yourself so you are easier to ress/harder to stomp as help…), or to delay something (other than your own death).

From your reasoning, Guardians should be complaining about their downed skills too, since Vaporform is clearly the best skill for any situation and their #2 has plenty of counters too (Blind/Block/Invulnereability/Stability/etc.) and the Ele’s does not.
Hell, players of every other class that does not have Invul/Stealth/Teleport downed skill should be creating multiple QQ threads on the forums right about now….

Terrahero.9358:

No excuses, none. There is nothing fun about downing an Elementalist and knowing “He’s just going to run into the tower, no point in even trying to kill him”. Or having such a kittenty downed state that you just get up for a drink when you get downed because there is just no way.

On the other hand, downed Elementalist will never ever interupt you ressing/downing another player, nor will he knock you of of the gun platform in Skyhammer and he certainly will not be able to pull you of the capture point.

You seem to assume, that every time the Elementalist uses Vaporform, he is guaranteed to heal up and rally without anyone interupting.

Mek.2947:

Why was Magnetic Grasp even on their radar? It didn’t even work half the kittening time you used it.

Wave, not Grasp, the patch notes state Magnetic WAVE! That is a #4 skill on the focus, which is by far, the least used Ele weapon, yet as we may see from reactions of some people, it is clearly enough to rage quit over it…. funny

GSSBlunaspike.4153:

They have a passive movement speed increase on a signet. They also have a long duration swiftness with a teleport ability that doesn’t have to target a minion.

The Signet of Locust isnt used, because the increased movement speed is the only thing it is good for and you wont sacrifice one utility slot just for that.

The Spectral Walk is usually used up for the swiftness when moving from place to place and is on cooldown when you need the stunbreak/teleport.
The teleport is also hard to use as a escape tool, because it ports you back where you started (often towards enemy zerg instead of away from them). Not saying it is a bad ability, but its not great one either.

Markus.7918:

I heard in your world the whole map is plucked with mobs, must be pretty convenient….
Can you tell me your Server, then i will transfer.

You do realize that teleports are usable even when you are out of range (as long as you have target), right? Just press CTRL to highlight any critters nearby.

You can also teleport to the other side of the zerg (which is usually focused on something else) and run away while you drop the Line/Ring of Warding.

imaginary.6241:

Unless they just remove the blind with a simple Auto-Attack first (ofc not just in the air anymore) … even then an additional blind doesn’t hurt. It ’s just that in that situation the protection is way superior as it reduces damage from multiple sources (unlimited for the time given) and for multiple attacks (unlimited for the time given).

Not arguing that. My point was more of a “what can the OP do with the build he uses”, instead of “how can the OP change the build he uses”.

imaginary.6241:

Blind is useless in that situation as it only misses the first attack of a combo for example HB isn’t it?

The thing is, even tho the 100blades is the skill that does the most damage, you want to Blind the Skull Crack/Shield Bash (= the stun), because those are the skills that allow the War to get the 100blades of.

Grackleflint.4956:

Using the Elixir S itself will also cause most warriors to waste their Backbreaker (knockdown) and Staggering Blow (push) follow ups.

Pretty sure that the Stunlock build, the OP is talking about is Mace/Shield – the only stuns the War really needs are Shield Bash (25s CD) and Skull Crack (6s CD, but needs adrenalin).

First, the War will start using his stuns just to waste your defensive cooldowns (stunbreakers, etc.), then he will use full adrenalin Skull Crack to stun you for 3+ sec, followed by 100blades + Bladetrail/Whirwild/autoattack (he doesnt even need to use any quickness, because the stun gives him plenty of time), till he can swap back to Mace/Shield (5 seconds), then he will use Skull Crack+Shield Bash+Pommel Bash, so you dont recover.

You cant relly on the Elixir S, because it has such a big cooldown (compared to Skull Crack). Your best bet is the Bomb Kit (Big Ol’ Bomb, Smoke Bomb, Glue Bomb), your Shield Skills + Blinds (Static Shot, Flash Grenade) and your dodges.

Just wanna point out that Mighty Blow (#2 Hammer skill) is a 4 sec CD (traited) blast finisher – combine with Healing Spring (or any other water field) for very high amount of healing….

Aeolus.3615:

In WvW when zergs clashes the amount on boon hater builds is already enought.
Btw stability(5s) is a boon easily removed, and your charactrer look like a rag doll with the massive KD’s warrior/ranger/mesmer push back skils with better racharge, and sometimes die in the midle of this pushblender, and now you say they are trying a way to …….

Not really, in zerg vs zerg situation, nobody is gonna single out your Guardian so they can Corrupt Boon him, unless you are the biggest guy in a shiny armor in the front of said zerg and the Necro just happens to notice you (assuming he has Corrupt Boon as one of his utilities in the first place).

Most single target boon removal skills are used on people that somehow stand out (of the rest of the zerg – for example, by low health/bad positioning/etc.)

Well of Corruption needs specific trait(which you need to take at the cost of other usefull traits), to be usable at all, is subject to the AoE limit of affecting max 5 targets and “corrupts” in pulses (meaning one can pass through it “inbetween” pulses and not have any boons “corrupted”).

Most AoE boon removal skills have the AoE limit and usually an another drawback (removing in pulses/specific traits/etc.).

You are more likely to get your boons removed in small scale engagements, when you are a more obvious target (or by an AoE, but then they are probably not targeting you specificaly).