Guild Wars 2

So have anyone checked that website? is it outdated? or why is it the coeff from FJ not computing with the dmg calculus? Im looking forward to finish my Engineer’s calculator

http://pvx.gw2buildcraft.com/Damage_Calculations#Kits

I really would like to sell this hammer, its been long long time ago, and I already listed it twice (each time I list, I would pay a fee of more than 2 gold with 37 silver). Now it is the lowest price in the list going for 47.50 gold, is there anyone interested in buying it? it has nice fire vapor and ashes animations and it glows ^_^

If you want a price please tell me a price and I can re-list change price but please be considered I already listed it twice (wasted 4 gold) listing it again it costs 2+ more gold.

Please some help from the community I heard it is a good hammer for guardians (Im an engi, I want a destoyer pistol)

http://media-ascalon.cursecdn.com/attachments/2/157/634888461903629586.jpg

This is a mere example but not ideal since it ranges from 9 to 10 secs, SIGIL OF BATTLE’s CD is not 10 secs is 9 secs and I tested it. Check my last post for more info about it. I always get to swap 9 secs cuz I actually count secs while in game, kinda nerdy, I know.

Actv = activation time
Activation time or synonymously, casting time is the length of time it takes to execute a skill after it has been selected.
The in-game tooltip data for activation time is largely wrong and currently, the only reliable way to figure out the actual activation time is by video capturing (FRAPS or MSI Afterburner) followed by frame-counting.
This information was taken from: http://pvx.gw2buildcraft.com/Damage_Calculations#Kits

Chain of skills “example” using Altruism/Hoelbrak/Fire runes:
Start combat mode with any skill u want, e.g. “Flame Blast”
Swap (actv 0.5 secs) = 3 Might for 33 secs
Static shot (actv + skill 0.5 secs) → Blowtorch (actv + anim 0.6)
Swap (actv 0.5 secs)
Air blast (actv + skill 0.7 prolongs blochtorch’s Burn)
FJ * 2 (actv + skill 2.5 sec * 2)
Swap (actv 0.5 secs)
Poison Dart Volley (act + skill 1.8 secs) [you can switch in the middle of it and get the stacks, don’t just wait.]
Swap (actv 0.5 secs) = +6 Might
FJ * 1 (actv 2.5 sec)
Swap (actv 0.5 secs)
Static shot (actv 0.5 secs) → Blowtorch (actv 0.6)
Swap (actv 0.5 secs)
FJ * 2 (actv 2.5 sec * 2)
Swap (actv 0.5 secs) = +9 Might
Poison Dart Volley (actv 1.8 secs)
Swap (actv 0.5 secs)
FJ * 2 (actv 2.5 sec * 2)
Swap (actv 0.5 secs)
Static shot (actv 0.5 secs) → Blowtorch (actv 0.6)
Swap (actv 0.5 secs)
Air blast (actv 0.7 prolongs blochtorch’s Burn)
Swap (actv 0.5 secs) = +12 Might (will be still up for almost 7 secs)

Tricks:
*You can swap to FT right after you ACTIVATE blowtorch, the blowtorch animation of the fire cone will show on a side, but it will inflict fire on a cone in front of you. You will get your might stack if you are on time for the Sigil’s CD 9 secs, even if you are still casting the odd Blowtorch’s animation.

*You will have 9+12 = 21 Stacks, and if you previously buffed yourself with Elixir H and ur rune of altruism that makes 21 + 5 = 25 stacks with extra duration. DURATION STACKS far more than the ammount of 25 stacks, if you already have 25 stacks for example, and you drink Elixir H, the duration will be added to the existing 25 stacks which will make you have 25 stacks for longer, but still each stack’s duration is counted separatelly. You can try something “similar” with your speedy kits with medkit + elixirs B & C and u will see 1 min but in fact it stacks more than 1 min.

It is my sincere suggestion, if anyone feels its hard or anyone feels cannot pull it out cuz its complicated, we all know Sigil of Battle is hard to get stacks and count to 9secs or get a Chain of skills to make it 9 ses, therefore you have the option of using Sigil of Strength is easy to get stacks but they wont last for long. It’s your choice, end of the story.

The skill-chain example mentioned above is the one that I reffered on the other posts, this post was removed, but now you can read it I hope it will be useful for some of us in this forum. More information about Sigil of Battle’s 9 secs CD, you can check my last post

This post has no rudeness at all so I hope this time it wont be taken out, I checked it twice.

Phineas Poe.3018:

My experiences come from using Hoelbrak/Fire/Strength runes which grant +60% Might duration. I also run with 20 points in Alchemy, which grants +20% Boon Duration. That means that Might is boosted by 80% in its duration.

Unbuffed, Sigil of Battle gives 3 stacks of Might that last 20 seconds. With +80% duration, that is 36 seconds. On a 10 second cooldown.

That means that with this setup it is physically impossible to sustain 12 stacks of Might with Sigil of Battle. You’ll get it for a few seconds and it will go back to 9.

I didn’t want to show my build before finshing my tests and my engi’s calculator but I will reveal the runes I use and traits:
Runes:
Rune of Altruism * 2 + Rune of Fire * 2 + Run of Hoelbrak * 2
Traits:
For PvE: 0/30/0/30/10 (For PvE, I use AoE fire, I toss myself to the mob and I do more dmg with a 100% burn for swapping which also grants cond removal, works perfect for dungeons)
For sPvP: 10/30/0/30/0 (For vs real people, for sure I need incendiary powder and I would use med kit instead of Elixir H)

With this build I tested, I am able to get 5 or 6 secs +12 stacks “without” juggernaut and I can get them every single time I face an encounter (33-9-9-9 = 6). The 12 stacks are almost perma, sometimes will last 6 secs, sometimes 5, so there will be a 4 or 5 secs gap. When I use Elixir H + B + S, I get almost 10 secs duration of 25 stacks (already tested not just saying). After 8 or 9 secs of having 25 stacks it will drop to 24 and it will sometimes blink back to 25 by itself for 1 or 2 secs, and by then I will be able to swap and get 3 stacks from Sigil of Battle, which makes me have perma 25 stacks. This test I didn’t use any special boon such as Chocolate Omnomberry Cream. I’m using 40% Might duration from runes and +30% boon duration. That means my Might is boosted by 70% in it’s duration. Each Swap gives me +3 Might stacks with 33 secs dur.

The build you mentioned is
Hoelbrak/Fire/Strength runes = +60% Might duration
20 Alchemy = +20% Boon Duration.
Total 80% Might duration
(80%*20secs) / 100% = 16 secs + 20 secs = 36 secs duration of Might from a single swap
36 – 9 – 9 – 9 = 9 secs of 12 stacks of Might a gap of 1 sec between next swap

My build has 70% Might duration and I get +12 stacks for might for 6 seconds, then a gap of 4 secs having 9 stacks then after 4 secs I will have 12 stacks again. 6 seconds it’s not a few seconds.

If I ran Hoelbrak/Fire/Strength runes + 30 alchemy, that will make me have +90% Might duration, I tested this once again and showed the following:
Total 90% Might duration
(90%*20secs) / 100% = 18 secs + 20 secs = 38 secs duration of Might from a single swap but your tag will show 37, which is kinda bug.
37 – 9 – 9 – 9 = 10 secs of 12 stacks of Might, which means perma 12 stacks and I tested it.

Maybe it didn’t work for your test because wiki is wrong it is not 10 secs CD, I tested it, you can try it by yourself, check your Might stack and whenever u get 37 secs, wait till it goes to 29 then at the end of 29 secs (29.1) you swap exactly 28 secs and you get your 3 stacks of Might, that makes 37 – 28 = 9 secs instead of 10 secs.

You can even scale more than 12 if you use Omnomberry or something.

I already gave you an advice, you want your Sigil of Strength then go use Elixir U or something to grant you quickness else you will do less dmg in X secs than Sigil of Battle.
As for Boss situations (because i know how your brain works you wanna find lil details to bug me) Lets say you are in CoF path 1 last boss, if you keep spraying to get your sweet Sigil of Strength’s stacks (which would probably reach as much as SoBattle or a lil less) then you’re wasting some nice dmg from Static shot’s confusion, volley, and BT. Also means you are one of those engis that just love to spam. You will also say “I dont need volley, static nor BT because those are condition dmgs and Im direct dmg” then I will say “the sum of all conditions from my chain of skills + direct dmg is far more than your Flame Jets + Flame Blast direct dmg itself, even if you add inc ammo” we are talking about might stacks that gives power + cond, and I will have a build of power & cond, while you have a build of just Berserker’s power + crit dmg.

Now, I will repost the question and expect you to stop following “THIS” post which is futile for you to argue with, since I did all tests and calculations and we had lotsa ppl here telling you that Sigil of Battle > Sigil of Strength.

Naioby.3705:

Here is my question:

Could someone please check if these values are up to date? I’m trying to make a MS Excel calculator with self-formulas
http://pvx.gw2buildcraft.com/Damage_Calculations#Kits
It seems wether the Flame Jet’s Coefficient is no longer 1.5 or maybe it is but the base weapon (FT) dmg was reduced probably and is not 969. Remember I’m talking FT weapon not the main weapons (guns, rifle) they won’t count for direct dmg in Flame Jet’s tooltip.
Tooltip damage = (average weapon strength) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (level-based Armor value)
Base Weapon Constant=(916×Weapon Strength) / 2600
Base Direct Damage=Base Weapon Constant×Skill Coefficient
Base Direct DPS=Base Direct Damage / Activation Time
916 it seems is the base power you get as level 80. Same goes for Base vit at level 80.

Phineas Poe.3018:

And what do you mean, go out and “try it?”

Listen son, I can see perfectly 2 things here:
1. maybe you are a trolling me
2. maybe you have hard time reading/understanding
You need to go back and learn what is “comprehensive reading” and this I mean for real, I have seen how you’ve quoted me before about “10 secs” instead of what I said “10 ticks” and when I mentioned that website saying that I want someone to check the values cuz it seems the coefficient is different, and wont compute, and you were thinking I was saying the FT got worse or something, and even now u are doing it once again just because you don’t take your time to comprehensively read.

Go out and try it, yes, get your FT with Sigil of Strength then kill a Risen @ Cursed Shores. Tell me without joking, trolling, lying, if you can get more than 3-5 stacks before you kill him with that sigil, maybe even 6stacks, then also measure your “timing”, how long did it TAKE you to kill the risen. Then repeat the same experiment with Sigil of Battle and try the BASIC chain of skills that I showed up there and also please measure your timing. I tried this not just in sPvP, I had BOTH Sigils, and I tried them BOTH at the same time in MANY situations, so I have the experience of it and I’ve seen that my playstyle can take out more stacks and more dmg with SoBattle than with SoStrength, and something you should know before reading and answering just like that, Sigil of Strength playstyle is universal, just hit and try to get lucky with stacks, keep spraying like crazy, if you don’t do so then the results will be the same UNLESS and I want to make this VERY clear…. I will give you one suggestion for YOU:
1. you love your Sigil of Strength
2. you are hard headed as to listen to people telling you real numbers
3. you want more dmg
Then use Elixir U, that’s your only chance to have Sigil of Strength as superior to Sigil of Battle, if you have a build with Elixir of U and a build to get quickness from any other source then, using Sigil of Battle is a waste of a slot, you have to go Sigil of Strength in this case.
BUT if you are playing my playstyle, nerdy style, to really make things chronometric, then use Sigil of Battle because you will get more stacks from it.

One more thing I forgot to mention is this:
A. With sigil of Strength after LONG TIME of trying you would be able to get around 12 stacks from just the Sigil.
B. With Sigil of Battle I can keep scaling up to 15 stacks, remember I said that it is a little less than 13 secs because we are still humans and not perfect, I would most of the time get around 9 to 12 + secs, specially when I have no lag around that means I do reach for a few secs 15 stacks, which u wouldn’t unless you stay for 30 min hitting something.

Now you have to really put into your brain this theory:
Sigil of Battle vs Sigil of Strength, is NOT JUST the stacks, it is also which one of both grants you the highest dmg in a short time. If you are not going with Quickness stuff, then Battle is the choice for someone that CAN pull out the timings as I do. The math is simple but seems I need to even give you a kindergarten’s example:
Sigil of Battle:
“I have enough food to have my breakfast, Lunch and dinner today. I can even have 3 meals a day for 10 days”
Sigil of Strength:
“Mom and Dad just gave me enough food to have my breakfast, they told me tomorrow I may have a little more”

Today means first tick to all my 10 ticks or whatever I get to do, could be FT could be pistols and I will have my 3 stacks ready to inflict dmg.
Breakfast = 1 stack of Might
Maybe tomorrow = you might not get any stack if you are really unlucky remember percentages are not a fact, and I mean like 30% from 1 hit, you have 70% of not getting it.

So if you are a kid, which one would you choose? have all 3 meals TODAY, or have only 1 meal today? this is kindergarten’s level of Math, you tell me.

Please stop trolling, I really enjoy math and it even goes worst for you because I’m a computer programmer, as I said I’m programming a calc for engineers to check dmg rates and trust me, I really know what I’m saying.

In the end, if you can keep a chronometric timer in your heart then, using Sigil of Battle you will be doing more dmg in a shorter time than using Sigil of Strength.

Don’t bring any simple conclusions to me without math and tests. I really which we could stop our debate, cuz it is no longer a debate if I proved all these facts to be real. I want someone to answer to my “dmg coefficient” question from last post, so that I can move on and continue programming my engi calculator.

Btw… the EXAMPLE of a Basic Chain mentioned 2 posts ago, shows almost perfect 10 secs per row if you do the chain exactly as I mentioned, even following the tricks to get stacks swapping while you are still on a skill. You can get your calc and make the sum, you can also go LA Fort Marriner and try it with the dummy.

You said that if I wait 11 secs and blah blah blah, and I would loose might stacks from the juggernaut blah blah blah. Math again… check this example of Chain, and if you have might duration, your juggernaut’s Might stacks will also last longer, 1 or 2 sec out from each stack wont make you loose a single stack, you are so exaggerated.

In the end Im staking more and WE all know this in this forum and we TOLD you so why do you still want to troll? ok I got it, you love your Sigil of Strength, then take care of your dear love and stick with it, not my problem if you cannot play like I do, I’m a nerd and I accept it, I’m able to really beat your Sigil of Strength cuz everything I do in live is chronometric, so I wont judge your play style, but someone like me can get 12 stacks for more than 9 secs and I can even scale it sometimes, which you cannot do with your dear Sigil. A normal guy that wont be that chronometric about things he would at least try some random chain and get 12 stacks for 5 secs and still beat Sigil of Strength, just by doing simple logic of how to get most of the dmg vs how to receive less dmg. Could you think why I did Static -> Blowtorch -> air blast?.
Besides this is just a BASIC chain, because sometimes I would switch to Elixir S and I have a specific trick (nopes, not the trait) to make it last even longer by using chains, or I would switch to wacky stuff like a turret? O_O for the tool belts, or sometimes even EG as a secondary toolkit, or rocket boots… in other words, my 3rd slot is always switching depending on the scenario, sometimes I would even replace FT for something else, but I love FT cuz I do know how to get a lot of dmg from it.

You are telling me about overlapping 9 stacks from sigil of Strenght, in my last POSTS I mentioned yes you can, u get a miracle to get 10 stacks hitting like crazy for 2 minutes consecutive a GROUP of golems which means, AoE criticals to get more probability of getting 1 stack for 18 secs. Do you at least TRY THINGS before talking? I told you, go to sPvP and try the group of golems see what you get… no more than 10, unless u stay for 1 hour and get like what? 11? 12?. And there you go, u wanna open your mouth and say, “yeah sPvP isnt PvE” but guess what… I tried on a group of golems to give you more chance to win and u cant, also no matter if you go full crit chance in PvE, I will still in less time than you do get my 6 stacks, while you would be just spitting fire pressing 1, 1,1 ,1,1,1…… 1….. ONE KEY hahaha

Can you just start thinking or at least try it by yourself? you only get one stack of might, sometimes you even dont get any O_O, weird but yes I tried this already 3 days and yes Im sure I had some weird moments with really bad luck even with MAIN full precision which u wont do cuz your main isn’t precision, is power. in 10 secs sometimes you get 3 stacks or even 5 but it will wear off fast… then you will say, yeah I got 5 and battle gets 3… but be honest with you, instant 3 stacks means:
Sigil of Battle:
“he gave me 3 rocks, I have them in my hands and I hit you with all 3 rocks at the same time”
Sigil of Strenght:
“at the begining I couldnt have anything to hit you, and you hitted me so hard, and then someone gave me ONE rock and I hit you back”

If I were to PvP with you, lemme tell you, I win by far cuz my hits are like a truck, and instantly hurts, while your hits, you will try to get a crit, which I wont LET you get I will be moving around and you are dead (nice rhyme). In PvE, I still win, cuz I will kill the mobs faster. If you dont wanna kill as fast as I do, then play Nakoda’s build which sounds nice, specially with a veggie pizza.

Stop discussing with me really, you didn’t proove me wrong and we had like 5 ppl here saying you were wrong. So really you are off man, the more u discuss the heavier my math will prove you wrong, and I even upped images. I really dont want to loose anymore of my precious time, so I will start taking your next posts as a troller cuz thats what a guy told me today when I mentioned this case, he said you were “trolling me” and that I was “wasting my time” so, take this post as a present and stop trolling me. I even saw you trolling Nakoda up there saying things that he already explained clearly, and you made him mad. It seems that makes you happy but it’s not gonna happen with me, I’m telling you, next msgs I will take it as “you are trolling me”.

Naioby.3705:

@Phineas Poe.3018
(10 secs duration of might from Sigil of Strength * 20 percent extra might duration from just one pair of runes) / 100 percent
EQUALS TO = extra 2 seconds + 10 seconds = 12 seconds total

(20 secs duration of might from Sigil of Battle * 20 percent extra might duration from just one pair of runes) / 100 percent
EQUALS TO = extra 4 seconds + 20 seconds = 24 seconds

With Sigil of Strength, I would only get 11 to 13 (out from 5 tries just one gave me 13 and lasted for less than half a second) stacks of might during all the process of KILLING a Heavy Golem at sPvP, that means finish depleting all his hp bar and making him dissapear. Also the first 1 hit I would only have 9 – 10 stacks of Might then the second to the 4rth Flame Jet (total of 40 ticks) I would only have 10 to 11 stacks of Might. Even with high precision I would still fail sometimes to get 1 stack of Might.

With Sigil of Battle, I would directly get 12 to 13 stacks of might saying (9 to 10 Juggernaut) + 3 = 12 to 13 stacks of Might from the FIRST tick of 1 Flame Jet. Then “during” and “after” finishing and killing the Heavy Golem I would have 14 to 16 stacks of might. The wacky thing is, after destroying the Golem, I would just sit down with my stacks hanging there for extra seconds and I would even see it go up while I was eating a pizza (and I’m not exaggerating). After 5 Golems it would be the same result and same numbers, its constant, its INSTANT, and it is DIRECT.

When I went to try Sigil of Strength with the group of golems for SEVERAL minutes continuously hitting my numerical key “1” for FJ, Sigil of Strength would only go as far as 16-19 stacks of Might, usually having only 16 or 17 stacks, after 20 minutes I was lucky and I had 20 stacks of might which lasted for. . . . Less than a QUARTER of a second -_- (0.25 secs)

Same experiment with Sigil of Battle gave me 19 to 22 stacks of Might, and whenever I would get 22 stacks, it would last a little more than 2 seconds! I used a metronome and I also used a chronometer. I even tested without counting those 9.5 seconds to swap, you know, as we normally play, using our common sense and I was able to have constant 19 to 20 stacks of Might. Damage was ALWAYS there.

Did you even read this before posting?

Phineas Poe.3018:

Why do you think the Flamethrower’s weapon damage has been reduced or the coefficient has changed for the worse?

I really hate trolls… gosh, a waste of time, go freaking read my post 5 times before trying to quote or to ask me some stuff. I CLEARLY said there is this website:
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/12/19/slang-words-2012_n_2322664.html

I don’t think, nor saying it went down for the worse or w/e… I said the value in that website doesn’t compute well, remember I’m creating a calculator for engineers, and the dmg formula wont match with the tooltip, read my kitten posts at least twice before trolling, and go check the website.

If your math isn’t that good then I will show you why I asked:

Tooltip damage = (average weapon strength) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (level-based Armor value)
Base Weapon Constant=(916×Weapon Strength) / 2600
Base Direct Damage=Base Weapon Constant×Skill Coefficient
Base Direct DPS=Base Direct Damage / Activation Time

The website says 1.5 dmg coefficient and 969 Flamethrower as a weapon strenght, 916 seems to be the base you get for level 80, same goes for your vit, and 2600 is a constant for armor as a default eg for tool tip’s data, therefore
Base weapon constant = (916 × 969) / 2600
Base weapon constant = 341.39
Base Direct Dmg= 341.39×1.5
Base Direct Dmg= 512.085
Base Direct DPS= 512.085 / 2.5
204.834

Our tool tip without any buffs, armor, etc says:
Damage (10x): 490
Burning: 1 s (328 damage)
Attacks per second: 5
Range: 425

Before you wanna start trolling me about the tool tip saying DMG 10x, go read wiki to know what’s that… I already did my whole investigation on many diff websites. Your main weapon’s strength doesn’t count. FT has it’s own weapon strength which in the website I mentioned says 969.

Now PLEASE lets go back to topic, remember we are here to try to get the most DMG out of FT as a group of ppl that really wants to make it a viable weapon kit. My last post had a very important question, could someone take some lil time to read it?

Here is my question:

Could someone please check if these values are up to date? I’m trying to make a MS Excel calculator with self-formulas
http://pvx.gw2buildcraft.com/Damage_Calculations#Kits
It seems wether the Flame Jet’s Coefficient is no longer 1.5 or maybe it is but the base weapon (FT) dmg was reduced probably and is not 969. Remember I’m talking FT weapon not the main weapons (guns, rifle) they won’t count for direct dmg in Flame Jet’s tooltip.
Tooltip damage = (average weapon strength) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (level-based Armor value)
Base Weapon Constant=(916×Weapon Strength) / 2600
Base Direct Damage=Base Weapon Constant×Skill Coefficient
Base Direct DPS=Base Direct Damage / Activation Time
916 it seems is the base power you get as level 80. Same goes for Base vit at level 80.

Ok for both of you guys, yes Zinwrath has some points it’s true it could be better but at least it’s not bad. We have jumping puzzles, it’s nice, the only problem is, once you beat them like 10 times, you don’t feel like doing them again or just sometimes. There should be some special events going on top of jumping puzzles to encourage doing it, and it will only trigger with 5 ppl… that is a great idea imo, and it will encourage to get friends or LFG website or call guildies and say : “hey you know the event at southsun cove is active!!! who wants to join???”
Phineas is also right, we have variety of things that are unique (I think so), for instance we have our tp, no one even mentioned how cool is to have a “mini stock market” inside of a game? why? hahaha I love it, it’s the first time I can get to see a mini version of the real life’s stock market, I’m also a business man in real life and to be honest I learn some stuff out from tp hahaha incredible. Gold goes up n down, some events would trigger the value of stuff, suddenly new patches will grant some new feature that a specific skill will benefit out from a hammer that no one wouldn’t use as apothecary hammer and blah blah blah (it’s an example).
Also, we have gems and we can trade it for gold which usually other games you just have one option which is real dollars, but here I see the magic of finding my way to get that thing using the gem statistics, whenever I register is the low season to buy gems.

Sinwrath also said something, but I will polish it, WvW won’t offer as much as it should, sometimes I would get into WvW but after 30 min I feel kinda bored specially if there are no zergs around. I will give you an old example, Ragnarok Online (not the number 2… I mean the first version) have you guys ever played it? well Imma give you a short view of what this game called “GUILD WARS” yeah ironically that name huh?. In ragnarok there would be a day in which, you were rushing to take a castle with all your guild mates, you could even be allied to another guild to have more guild power to take a castle, and I remember how it was… that was exiting, in some way even better than our WvW because castles were BIG, and there were MAZES inside of the castles. I mean we already have big buildings and caves and stuff in GW2, why not make a maze inside of the WvW castles? O_o. Also it wasn’t just that, you were able, once your guild owned the castle, to buy guards and upgrades. Yeah, we have something similar in WvW, but we are talking that once you got into the castle territory you were getting inside of the castle’s maze and fighting mobs that were placed there, it was very freaking hard to just keep going alive in that maze, some times there wouldn’t be any guild able to capture that castle cuz it was really hard. Oh… and why go to the end of the maze??? its because at the end there was this big rock called “oridecon” that you had to destroy in order to take over the castle and disable all guards and defensive systems, and you felt like “AT LAST!!”. Also inside of the castle there were dungeons that you were able to get in ONLY after you owned it, well we can have something similar… instead of a vip dungeon we could have a special chest that would be there once every week? or so?, as an incentive to take a castle.

In conclusion what I mean is, at least we are getting fixes and I noticed that GMs really listen to our pledges as we were in many posts saying “please make FT’s #2 to be able to activate the explosion” so, we just have to keep asking for fixes and reveal bugs. Games like WoW already have many years, GW2 is far different from GW1 so we cant consider it as one, therefore GW2 is a new game and it’s improving on each patch. ARENA NET is trying the best to fullfill most of our mmo’s dreams, but we need a lil patience.

Could someone please check if these values are up to date? I’m trying to make a calc
http://pvx.gw2buildcraft.com/Damage_Calculations#Kits

It seems wether the Flame Jet’s Coefficient is no longer 1.5 or maybe it is but the base weapon (FT) dmg was reduced probably and is not 969. Remember I’m talking FT weapon not the main weapons (guns, rifle) they won’t count for direct dmg in Flame Jet’s tooltip.

Tooltip damage = (average weapon strength) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (level-based Armor value)

Base Weapon Constant=(916×Weapon Strength) / 2600

Base Direct Damage=Base Weapon Constant×Skill Coefficient

Base Direct DPS=Base Direct Damage / Activation Time

916 it seems is the base power you get as level 80. Same goes for Base vit at level 80.

timidobserver.7925:

Also, numbers are always nice. I would like to see this as well. Do we have any math people in the engi forums?

Me <= lil bit nerdy XD

I’m thinking… If I don’t get a convincing answer for Carrion vs Berserker vs Rampager then Imma start creating a program calc for all stats, tics and flicks, or maybe an excel sheet with auto calc formulas to just imput values (that would be less time consuming XD)

I’m tempted… so please someone give me a nice answer so not to waste my weekend (else I will make the program then offer it for SALE hahahaha)

timidobserver.7925:

Naioby.3705:

Sporadicus.1028:

If you want to max your condition damage out at the sacrifice of some precision, then go Rampager or Apothecary for armor (and weapons), then choose Rabid for trinkets.

This nets you the most conditions without sacrificing too much precision. Rampager will add a bit more power and precision, but Apothecary will add some healing and toughness for survivability.

With my setup of Apothecary/Rabid (in rares, mind you) I have approximately 1200 condition and 37% crit chance (42% with Accuracy).

I have a curiosity, what if you go Carrion + Rabid trinkets? since we are trying to use the FT as a condition applier using bleed+ inc ammo + burns from traits, wouldn’t you get more dmg at the cost of some crit chance? I’m wondering, does anybody has a proven answer? I would really like to know the result.

While it is a bit underpowered atm, you can deliver decent sustained damage if you go for power. You can do that at the same time as having a great deal of survivability.

On the other hand. Of all the ways to go about being condition based, using FT for it is the worst way possible.

What you said, for me would be taken as a possibility not a real deal since I would love to see numbers as Phineas Poe said. Numbers show the reality, because to be honest, I tested the golems in sPvP and Carrion would take out more than 95% out of a golem (using inc ammo), than Berserker’s did (with inc ammo). But as we are debating right now, we know that numbers are different in PvE, so that’s why I’m wondering and not just me, we would like to have some screenshots + numbers to know between Zerker’s , Carrion’s, Rampager’s what would do the biggest ammount of dmg (cond+direct dmg altogether) in the “shortest” amount of time (yeah because if we go veggie pizza + durations then thats another story).

I’m not saying Carrion’s better but I wanna see numbers even screenies if its possible, thanks

Sporadicus.1028:

If you want to max your condition damage out at the sacrifice of some precision, then go Rampager or Apothecary for armor (and weapons), then choose Rabid for trinkets.

This nets you the most conditions without sacrificing too much precision. Rampager will add a bit more power and precision, but Apothecary will add some healing and toughness for survivability.

With my setup of Apothecary/Rabid (in rares, mind you) I have approximately 1200 condition and 37% crit chance (42% with Accuracy).

I have a curiosity, what if you go Carrion + Rabid trinkets? since we are trying to use the FT as a condition applier using bleed+ inc ammo + burns from traits, wouldn’t you get more dmg at the cost of some crit chance? I’m wondering, does anybody has a proven answer? I would really like to know the result.

google.3709:

better ways, yes.. this is just an option but. either way you have to spend the points to get the boom duration

also, 700 power/con could be great, but if you’re running HgH P/P, you’re getting stuck with mediocre damage, so it’s not worth it, but if you try your own build and tweak it, could be great!! 25 might + Concussion Bomb is melts mobs/people

Totally yes… besides if you have HGH + Elixir B (you can read wiki about it):
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/HGH
Drinking an elixir gives two stacks of might. Throwing an elixir only grants one. So an Elixir B (which already grants might) would give three stacks. If thrown, it would give one stack of might in addition to its normal chance.

Besides it’s a golden 20 sec duration of Might. Let’s say ur using Elixir H + Altruism you will be getting 5 stacks of might ^______^

Also I forgot to answer to this:

Zuer.2814:

Does HGH trigger from elixirs that get used at a certain health percentage?

Yes it triggers, so you drink Elixir B and you are getting 3 stacks of Might, rather than just 1 O_o

Don’t forget to mention +elixir duration trait

nakoda.4213:

… and yet, there is constant argument (to which I often fall prey, I am a kettle, not a pot here) about which is better or worse when we should be talking about “what works and what doesn’t” to provide new players with ACTUAL useful information.

Nakoda’s post was very clear, we here should be concentrating at “what works” and “what doesn’t”
1. Nakoda’s build “works” if you want a slow but painful death for your enemies, specially if you can be kinda tanky
2. Sigil of Battle works better than Sigil of Strength, we know that it’s easy math, but some people prefer Sigil of Strength because its easier to concentrate in other things rather than keep an internal biological timer to swap at the right time. If you are a nerd like me and you do count when you are hitting and doing stuff you might even try to find a perfect chain to also get exactly 9.5 secs to swap and get your stacks faster and up for longer. In conclusion, BOTH WORK, but it depends on player’s prefference.
3. Sigil of Battle + Sigil of Strength is a NO No nO, so sad about this, they should really do something to fix on swap CD, else I would be going sigil of earth + sigil of battle since I already get 25 stacks easier than farting (in my case). It also seems that it won’t not just “fail to proc”, it seems both CD will sum up, I didn’t test this but, my internal clock says so, yesterday I tested this just once and I felt more than 10 secs, so sad about it.
4. already 3 people in this topic won’t take a time to read full posts, and they would go dr;tl, and not counting someone’s joke about this acronym hehehe, I’m talking about other people that commented things that were already explained perfectly as Nakoda did with his CC statement + FJ. So people please MAKE SURE you read the whole post BEFORE you start quoting us.
5. Don’t aim at someone in this forum, if he has a different play style, if you wanna aim at someone and attack heavy in a post, then do it to someone that was not polite at you and at the same time “wrong” about something that is way off the reality. That’s what I enjoy and I love to show real facts and calculus in a harsh way to those that were not so polite with me(but still taking those 10 min of relaxing before typing), but if that was nice with me and he/she said something that was wrong then I will be nice to him/her and explain on a nice way.

nakoda.4213:

it drives me insane how i explain to you HOW i use the FT and HOW it works for me and HOW i find success with it, but every time I do so, you tell me I am wrong because of something the other player will do.

Hehehe at last there is someone that felt how I felt… the only difference is that I do as"Zinwrath" said:

Zinwrath.2049:

…anyway, if you read something that makes you mad. Take 10 minutes to cool off before responding to it…

There are many ppl in the forums that they just read the beginning of your post, and they just assume the rest and start replying to what you said on the first line of your post. When I read Nakoda’s post I was so clear to know his play style, I even thought this:
“Nakoda loves to see people suffering, he doesn’t want an insta kill because it wouldn’t be as fun as watching desperate for not being able to kill you asap, and he would keep chasing them and CC them to drive them nuts and then finish them”
Isn’t this how you feel Nakoda? I can understand perfectly because I’m one of those sick engineers that NEVER stick to one build, some days I feel like a psycho and I change my build to something like Nakoda’s to enjoy killing them SLOWLY but PAINFULLY hahaha.

He stated his play style very well, CC then get close, CC again, then use ur flamejet, that’s not easy but it’s not impossible, and as he said “takes time to kill, but I enjoy it” it is his playstyle, and his way of playing, and works for him.

Some other days I would try to keep developing my burst build for FT, and AS Sinwrath and Sporadicus tried to explain is that, if we want to get most of the dmg cond+power altogether you NEED to keep switching between FT and pistols and even another kit of your choice, or use Elixir S to approach + dmg, and use it as an Elixir Stomp, as some of us call it, or even any ideas you get. FT is a good cond applicator, not to mention the Might stacking, you can just have ur FT active walking around to keep the charges up then start fighting with some crazy swappings to get most of the dmg maximized from switching into diff kits or your weapons.

google.3709:

but my 2 points refer to; FT burning doesn’t last for long, so if you stop facing the enemy for 1 second, DPS is down to 0, so you have to constantly face him directly which leaves you vulnerable since now you can’t dodge or kite properly. Other classes have this problem too, but with the advantage that they are able to land big hits, which FT cannot.

Also, if enemy stops being scared from the animation for just 1 second and realizes how much damage you’re really making, they can just turn around and kill you

FT having small duration for burns and probably some other conditions doesn’t make any disadvantage, if you go condition dmg and power + 25 stacks of Might, those little secs of condition hits like 2 or more rifle hits + the base dmg of your Ft which isn’t that much. Many people would only check the Combat chat or the numbers they see from a crit, but they are not taking into account the numbers you get from all conditions + direct hit, remember when I tried with golems, I tested berserker’s and Carrion’s, everyone please take a time to try that yourself, use inendiary ammo + FJ and you will depleet more than 95% of the Heavy golem in just 2 secs, while using berserker’s + incendiary ammo won’t do that much of a Dmg. Probably works differently in PvE but this is something that I am still studying and trying to get as much details as possible. But we know something for sure now, even if FT has some power-based direct dmg, the FT is ideal to spread conditions, you just have to really have in mind two thing:
1. CC + swaps to get best dmg and best use of ur FT for a 1v1
2. Spread and spray + swaps to get the best out of your FT vs more than 1 opponents

Zinwrath.2049:

Rezzet.3614:

except that the Bleed on crit has an internal cooldown so you ll get 1 bleed tops per spray. burning does high damage but alone its no big threat and easy to remove and you can get perma burning pretty much with pistols and the Explosives V trait. why would you need a flamethrower again?

Easy to remove? Most the burns dont last long enough to warrant using your 1-2 TOPS condition wipes. They’re all breif, and you reapply them quickly.

And yea internal cd on all these abilities BUT you didnt read what i said. More oppurtunities. pistol for examp gets 4 1/2 attacks for one flame thrower channel which does 10 attacks. More attacks in a shorter amount of time = more chances to roll the dice for a crit.

Also no one is denying grenades are good. But they dont have a push back/reflect, they dont have an AE blind you can use while stunned or channeling another ability (like stomping someone whos downed). Also grenades work best with a high power build to make use of the crazy vuln stacking. I clearly state FT needs improvements to make its role more defined…and just generally better at what it does.

Anyway, point still stands. Offers more than average oppurtunities to crit thus proc conditions from traits/sigils. 4 ways to apply short but powerful applications of burning (highest damage condition). cannot be countered by condition wipe (Because it is a burning condition it does not last long, and does not intensify in damage the way bleeds do, so stacking is less important than simply reapplying it constantly which the FT does). Also i suggest using it between swapping out for pistol conditions…pistols do not replace it, it does not replace pistols, it works WITH pistols.

Hope this clears things up for you.

This is a very nice point of view. Yes, 1 or 2 sec burn, + 25 stacks of Might + base dmg + bleed dmg + vulnerability = Maybe higher than just going berserker’s and a very nice burst dmg. Afaik the Combat Chat wont display condition dmg numbers, it should.

Creld.8702:

Also, some of your math is a bit off, but it’s not a big deal. Just assuming you have +60% duration and full alchemy, it’s 19 seconds on strength, 38 on battle.

My Math is not off. This is the calculus that I posted:

Naioby.3705:

(10 secs duration of might from Sigil of Strength * 20 percent extra might duration from just one pair of runes) / 100 percent
EQUALS TO = extra 2 seconds + 10 seconds = 12 seconds total
(20 secs duration of might from Sigil of Battle * 20 percent extra might duration from just one pair of runes) / 100 percent
EQUALS TO = extra 4 seconds + 20 seconds = 24 seconds

Then you will wanna start being a smarty pants and say:
“You said 18 secs from S of Strength and 37 secs from Sigil of Battle that’s off because
((20 base secs*(%30 Alche + %60 Runes)) / 100 ) = 18 extra seconds + 20 base secs = 38”
Yeah, I have enough IQ to do that and even more than that, but I never said that a specific calculus gave me 37 nor 18… I said that the longest duration time you can get is 18 for Strength and 37 from Battle. I have one question for you, did you at least go to sPvP with all 3 pair of runes %60 Might dur + %30 alche and check how many secs of Might you get? the answer is NO, you are just like any other troll that wants to target the nerdy hahaha. Dude Math is Math, but we ALL know that ANET always have some crazy odd mad inside the programming lines of the game, we even have runes that said +50 attribute X, but in fact it would only give +40, so go do your homework and get into sPvP and try it by yourself, don’t be a lazy kitten ::laugh:: Meowwww

P.D.: You are free to start trolling and quote me every single spot where I said 37 secs, and I will still prove that I didn’t say I got that value from a calculus, I clearly said this is what the GAME gave me when I swapped, same goes with the 18 secs from Sigil of Strength… and for the record, no matter if you get 19 secs you still won’t get as many stacks as Sigil of Battle, and you won’t even get stacks as fast as Sigil of Battle. PERIOD, no more trolls please, stop wasting my energy XD. I really wanna stop answering to posts but if I don’t answer, trolls will think they won.

Creld.8702:

Oh, and adding trollface generally shows you’re using troll logic, such as using two magnets to fly. Not conducive to a well written math based argument.)

I uploaded a troll face bcuz I was being trolled, called inexperienced and saying things that weren’t accurate when I was, if you check one of the posts before yours you can even see him saying that I mentioned 10 seconds when I said 10 ticks INSTEAD. So I really don’t like trolls that wanna quote things that I didn’t say and even change my words because they want to feel better with themselves. And what do you care if I use a troll face to dedicate it to someone? that was for him not for you. Do you also wanna start trolling? you will feel familiar with this attachment dedicated to you hahaha

Sporadicus.1028:

And here I’m wrong for Apothecary’s. It provides Condition damage, not duration.

Still works for my build plan,so I’m not worried about it. I’ll probably have to spend a lot of money on it, though. >.<

Hehehe yeah, I would even think about farming and crafting it, gold hurts XD

Sporadicus.1028:

Apothecary’s are supposed to provide Healing, Toughness, and Condition duration. My setup doesn’t have anything regarding Boon Duration. Giver’s Weapons provide Condition Duration, though.

Darn hahaha big big sorry, I got confused and I thought of Giver’s, that is the one that gives boon duration and that one is bugged, maybe it is still bugged.

As for Apothecary’s, as far as I know, it doesn’t provide Condition duration, it is Main healing then toughness + condition damage. Giver’s weapons does provide Condition Duration.

nakoda.4213:

Naioby.3705:

Phineas Poe.3018:

Never once in this thread did I ever say that Sigil of Strength is a better choice than Sigil of Battle. My only contention was you trying to say that Strength only gives one stack of Might every ten seconds when it actually gives 5 (or 6 over 12 with Boon Duration buffs).

Either way, like Sporadicus, I’ve made my point. I’ll give you the final word here.

Sorry, not to bother you or something but, I never said you only get 1 stack of Might every ten seconds, I said you only get one stack of might every 10 ticks which happens in 2 seconds (I used chronometer and its 2 secs since the first hit to the 10th last hit, not 2.25 as wiki says)

This is what I said:

Naioby.3705:

… in conclusion you can ONLY receive one stack of might per 10 ticks of 1 Flame Jet shot

you can get up to 2, actually, if you are lucky enough to get a crit on the first pulse and on the last, each proccing the sigil. I HAVE DONE IT.

did you remember to account for animation times in your chronometer test? or did you just stopwatch from tick 1 to tick 10?

Nakoda, what you state is really interesting. Are you really sure you got 2 stacks? that’s like almost impossible you know that, specially since I know I used my chronometer many times and it is 2 secs or maybe even less, from tick #1 to tick #10. Please can you check that? (I’m working on a paper translating something for a client hahaha)

I’m really interested in what you’ve said because it would mean that the animation is not going together with the real hit dmg. For this I would love to retry a chronometer to check the animation and see how long it takes since u get to see the channeling bar till the end, I think I did this and I saw 2 secs, but since this was almost 2 days ago, I don’t remember if I did that. But anyways this is just something I would really like to know, it’s interesting. As for Strength vs Battle, the sigil of Battle still wins because I did an extensive test of dmg in a short time and dmg in 20 mins, as well as Might stacking. You won’t get as much stacks as a Sigil of Battle, specially if we are talking about 30 secs, as I tested and mentioned before:

Naioby.3705:

VERY IMPORTANT & TODAY’s TEST: To get a miracle of 10 stacks of Might with Sigil of Strength I had to spend 2 minutes constantly hitting a GROUP of golems to get many crits to get one to proc Sigil of Strength and after 20 minutes that’s all I could get, and it wouldn’t even last for long. While with Sigil of Battle after 30 seconds, without even hitting something just remaining in combat, I had 12 stacks and I was able to keep it 12 stacks for 20 minutes CONSTANTLY by just swapping and getting 3 stacks of might with 37 secs duration each.

This one of course didn’t include juggernaut just to get the plain numbers, but it did include all the +60% might duration + trait specs and all stuff. And the interesting thing is, with Sigil of Battle I wasn’t even hitting a thing, I would just swap and get 3 stacks for 37 secs, then wait and stack again, and again. With Sigil of Strength I really had to do things out of the normal gameplay, which is to hit a group of static non-agro Heavy Golems, and you would never have this chance on PvE. You wont land many of your hits and if it’s a 1v1, for sure you wont get that many stacks, probably just 2 or max 5 stacks before a single Heavy Golem goes down. And if we say, a dungeon Boss and you are hitting like crazy 1v1, let’s say the path 1, CoF, then for sure you wont get your 10 stacks (not counting juggernaut), while I will for sure get my 12 extra stacks and keep it that high constantly (not counting juggernaut).

I’m interested in your point about the duration of the Flame Jet.

Sporadicus.1028:

I for one would choose Sigil of Battle over Sigil of Strength. Here’s my reasoning:

Flame Jet may be a continuous string of 10 hits over 2.25 seconds, but it’s a #1 auto-attack.

As I mentioned before, I tested with a chronometer, its actually 2 secs from the first hit of your 1rst tick to the 10th. The animation of holding down your FT then firing it again (without Quickness), results on 0.5 seconds maybe a little less or a little more (also did this with chronometer). I just wanted to add this information since I took my time to test this.

Sporadicus.1028:

Auto-attacks are never meant to be spammed until someone dies. You have to intersperse other attacks between these auto attacks. These attacks can delay your auto-attack spam by anywhere from 1 second to 2 seconds.

FJ’s Strength building concept only works if you sit there and don’t do anything else but Auto-Attack.

Very good point, thanks a bunch, you just resumed most of what I have been trying to say, as a skilled engineer you should be able to not only use ur FT but also switch to your gun’s skills or rifle skills or even switch to a EG, nades or tool kit. If you Spam #1 then you are playing counter strike, not GW2.

Sporadicus.1028:

Edit: However . .
With Juggernaut added in, you get another 6-7 stacks of might with about a 1 second overlapping interval. Most people who choose Sigil of Strength will also choose Juggernaut as it helps them get higher stacks.

If you choose Juggernaut and swap out constantly, you maintain probably closer to the 4-5 range (overlapping interval of about 2 seconds). I’m betting it’s closer to 3-4 stacks from Juggernaut, though.

With this added to my Strength vs Battle comparison, this buffs Strength-users to possibly 11-13 stacks in a 1-2 second overlap interval. Battle users get between 9 – 13 stacks with a 6 second overlap interval.

I mentioned about 12 hours ago giving results of my test with pair of these runes : Hoelbrak+Fire+Strength
They would provide +60% Might duration, and you have +30 alchemy, and Juggernaut. The final results still showed that Sigil of Battle would stack even more, and it’s a simple math because, “the bigger the number, the more X you get from a percentage”

(10 secs duration of might from Sigil of Strength * 20 percent extra might duration from just one pair of runes) / 100 percent
EQUALS TO = extra 2 seconds + 10 seconds = 12 seconds total

(20 secs duration of might from Sigil of Battle * 20 percent extra might duration from just one pair of runes) / 100 percent
EQUALS TO = extra 4 seconds + 20 seconds = 24 seconds

With all 60% and specs from traits and stuff, I get 37 secs for 3 stacks Might with Sigil of Battle and "almost"18 secs of just 1 stack Might. I also did the test hitting multiple golems to get multiple crits and have more chance to activate Sigil of Strength to really put it into test, and I showed the following:

Naioby.3705:

…with Sigil of Strength you ONLY get like 19 Stacks of Might if you hit like crazy for 20 minutes consecutively to a GROUP of golems, usually you would only have like 15 or 16 stacks (JUST sigil of strength,+all 60% runes and alchemy, juggernaut, etc, NO extra buff, elixirs, etc), while I can easily get in just a couple of seconds get 22 stacks and they will stay there, and this is just having my sigil of battle…

Also to remark, during this test I had for a quarter of a second 20 stacks with sigil of strength, but to be honest that wouldn’t count much on a fight since you usually have about 15 stacks of Might vs Sigil of Battle that would constantly have 22 stacks of Might without even using any elixirs, or any sort of buffs.
If you love FT as I do, I would totally invite you to please read my posts hehehe, I already gave numbers and tests so now you can be 100% sure that Sigil of Battle is the choice for a FT if you are a skilled engineer and you want to stack real fast and keep the stacks there for longer.
While I was testing for many hours these two sigils a wise man came to me (in-game, close to the golems) and he said:
“Sigil of Strength is not bad, but it’s not the best choice for a FT user. Sigil of strength is meant for people that wants to spam a skill and get stacks without swapping, or for those who won’t even swap anything at all. Sigil of Battle would be the best option for a skilled FT user”
Thanks for your comment, and I invite you to read my tests that I stated above

Phineas Poe.3018:

Never once in this thread did I ever say that Sigil of Strength is a better choice than Sigil of Battle. My only contention was you trying to say that Strength only gives one stack of Might every ten seconds when it actually gives 5 (or 6 over 12 with Boon Duration buffs).

Either way, like Sporadicus, I’ve made my point. I’ll give you the final word here.

Sorry, not to bother you or something but, I never said you only get 1 stack of Might every ten seconds, I said you only get one stack of might every 10 ticks which happens in 2 seconds (I used chronometer and its 2 secs since the first hit to the 10th last hit, not 2.25 as wiki says)

This is what I said:

Naioby.3705:

… in conclusion you can ONLY receive one stack of might per 10 ticks of 1 Flame Jet shot

Oh and btw…

Phineas Poe.3018:

… every ten seconds when it actually gives 5 (or 6 over 12 with Boon Duration buffs).

No, you can’t get 12 stacks of Might in 10 secs, it’s totally impossible I tried with all +60% Might duration runes and all +30 alch and every spec from traits. All I got was 10 stacks of Might after 2 big minutes of hitting a whole group of golems (many crits = more chances to get proc). Now imagine if you would only hit one single target?

Sporadicus.1028:

Here’s the thing: Incendiary Powder’s CD affects only you. Only one enemy will get that burning.

If you want to spread burning more, I would suggest backing away slightly and using Pistol Shot #4 (Blowtorch).This affects multiple enemies, and gives you more chances for damage.

Wow, very good point. Then for PvE, such as Orr I might use Static Discharge to hit more targets and make sure I get more loot, or even use Kit Refinement for cond removal + AoE Burn (not a big radius but it worked for me in some dungeons such as CoF and AC). http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Flame_Burst

Uhmmm I didn’t think about the incendiary powder’s CD… that’s a problem for AoE… 3 secs CD is a lot T_T.

Sporadicus.1028:

FT can be either Power or Conditions.

If you want multiple conditions, your best bet is to add another kit to your utilities. Elixir gun gives you conditions and healing, while Toolkit gives you conditions, a pull and a block. You also want to stack condition damage and duration.

I’m thinking about grabbing some Apothecary’s gear, Rabid Trinkets (and crests), Giver’s Pistols. Runes: 2 x Lyssa, 2 x Rata Sum, 2 x Forge. Sigils: Smoldering/Agony, Doom

Trait Allocation: 10/30/10/20/0
Traits: Incendiary Powder, Hair Trigger/Infused Precision, Napalm Specialist, FireForged Trigger, Protective Shield, Acidic Coating/Protection Injection/Invigorating Speed/Backpack Regenerator/Self-Regulating Defenses

The idea behind this is to apply as many different conditions as possible and keep them up. Doom and pistol Poison Shot apply poison, FT and pistol Blowtorch deliver burning (Incendiary Powder’s a good plus to this!), while Bleeding is applied by Pistol’s Explosive Shot (and Sharpshooter trait or Elixir Gun or even Toolkit).

Your traits are pretty malleable, playing to your tastes. If you combine Acidic Coating with Protection Injection and Protective Shield, you can cause more Poison damage to enemies while still reducing damage to yourself. If you use Infused Precision, you might want Invigorating Speed for the swiftness/vigor effects that help in keep-away (EG’s Elixir F can help you a little with this).

I can’t remember who said it, but Condition Duration is the +Crit Damage for conditions. 10% from Explosives, Napalm Specialist, Runes, Sigils, and even food (Veggie Pizza!) will help your conditions last almost twice as long.

This isn’t as condition damage intensive as some are, but the idea is to see more conditions on an enemy and keep them away. Use FT’s Air Blast, Pistol’s Glue Gun as your mainstays, while also using Elixir Gun and Tool Kit to give you more defensive/healing capabilities.

Now. . .I haven’t put this together yet, but think it might work well. Has anyone thought about this build?

Sounds nice but, there are some things that I would like to contribute. First of all, I don’t know if Apothecary armor’s are still bugged or not. They wouldn’t provide any boon duration “even if” they would show up as extended boon duration. The only way to test this out is with a chronometer. Anybody could test this out to see if they have fixed this already?

Second point is, I’m trying to find a way to make our FT short range viable, how to get closer to target, or stuns, or immobilize a target, or using Elixir S to get closer and hit while invulnerable (one of my fav tricks in sPvP, works so kewl vs thieves). Now that we have our Flame Blast that can be activated remotely, some engineers that are very skillful will be able to land it and make some nice dmg from it, also we have a very nice air blast that increases the burning duration for skills such as the insane blow torch. All of this makes me think that, if you want to go for duration on conditions then you should be whether a “hit and run” engi or a long range engi (nadier, EG, rifle, pierce guns, etc). For instance, Guardians can easily get rid of conditions and that would make cond duration engis to just ignore guardians and try to go to another target. The build that I’m trying to put all together is a build that is centered on a fast burst using FT and some other chain skills, but FT helps me not just for might stacks but also as a walking shield with juggernaut and a nice smoke for those melee that would try to get you down in 6 secs + nice CC to get enemies out of areas in PvP using Air vent (as well extra burn dur). So In my case I prefer to be more of a 85% melee type with 25 stacks of Might and some other tricks.

Anyways I liked your comment and please let me know if you get to try it, maybe I could learn something new and get to see how viable this build could be. Since i have a close friend who runs a fast burst thief, I always test with him in sPvP, same I do with another friend that has a necro. So far everything’s good and I found a way to counter them both, especially the thief.

Phineas Poe.3018:

It’s a 10% damage increase to Flame Jet’s channeling attack that has no effect on its actual Burn damage. If you felt that the Flamethrower scaled better with Power pre-patch, it even more so does now.

Flame Jet and Flame Blast both are more Power-based in their damage than they are Condition based. Fact is: you lose out a ton more raw output going without critical damage from Zerker than you actually gain in Condition Damage with Rampager.

To be sincere, I have a little hard time to understand your phrasing but I want to rephrase to see if this is what you meant:
*It is an extra 10% direct damage from Flame Jet’s ticks to targets that are already burning, and it doesn’t increase the condition damage from burns. If you felt that the Flamethrower’s total dmg scaled better with Power pre-patch, then you will feel it even more now."

If this is what you meant, then I think you are pretty much right, and makes me think even more. I did tests in sPvP with 1 shot (10 ticks) of Flame Jet with a Berserker’s and Carrion’s Trinket, however I forgot about this new patch, and my tests were very simple, and I didn’t even spec with incendiary powder (because I wanted a basic test without extra stuff), so you made me think that it might be possible that if I spec with incendiary powder to get extra burns, it will ensure to have a constant +10% from my direct dmg of FJ. My base tests from Berserker’s vs Carrion’s showed after 8 separated shots of FJ (80 ticks) that Carrion’s would inflict more dmg than Berserker’s because of the bleeding + direct dmg and the 1 sec burn from the last tick. BUT now that you mention this, I’m really wondering, I might probably get more dmg from Berserker’s.

Another thing that I always try to count, is what I sometimes do when I’m completely alone and surrounded by lots of mobs, I spin my FT and hit them all, I know that with incendiary powder I will have many of them burning, and all of them available for a second fast spin to proc with the 10% dmg, specially if I had a “rare veggie pizza”. The spin tactic wouldn’t work that much for the 10% dmg if I didn’t get the pizza and I just rely on the 20% burning duration from traits since that would be 2.4 seconds and I need 2.5 seconds for the next FJ shot. But if I’m in a dungeon with my party mates and I’m aiming a boss or some targets in a line of sight, or lets say sPvP then, I think you don’t even need that pizza to really get that dmg rolling high.

This is very interesting and I actually didn’t pay attention to read carefully the patch notes, thanks for your comment. I will for sure make some tests to see how that goes. Tomorrow I will upload a picture of the best dmg out from 8 FJ shots using Berserker’s and Carrion’s Trinkets. I think I wont test the Rampager’s, in my opinion it’s not an option since precision wont give me any extra dmg, and Carrion’s will give me main cond+power. Any other suggestion on how should I test Berserker’s and Carrion’s? I will try sPvP Heavy Golems, no runes+basic rifle+30 firearms+30 alche+incendiary powder. Not sure if I should test using Sigil of Smoldering or any other Sigil, or just plain to check the total dmg. I might using incendiary ammo, but not sure if I should just use incendiary ammo and no incendiary powder, or use both. Any suggestion please let me know, I really wanna see whats the best fit for the new patch.

Thanks

Vuh.1328:

tl;dr strength sucks, battle rocks

XD hahaha

As for your beloved 5 stacks of Might I also proved (I don’t know if you at least take a time to read my posts) that you can get your beloved extra 5 stacks IF you have all runes +30 alchemy and etc, and you can even extra 10 stacks of Might + your Juggernaut (making 19 or 20 stacks for a very short duration) which you can only get by spraying like crazy to a GROUP of static NON-AGRO golems to get multiple Crits for 20 minutes to be lucky enough to reach that much stacks, but I will get around 22 stacks of Might in just a couple of seconds, it’s a FACT and I proved it. You cannot refute the fact that Sigil of Battle stacks more SPECIALLY if you use all those runes you wanted me to put into consideration, 60% extra Might duration its crazy +30Alchemy and specs… it is MATH and we all know that “the bigger the number, the bigger result you get from a percentage” while you get almost18 seconds with all runes n’ stuff for each stack of your beloved Sigil of Strength, I am getting 37 seconds for just swapping my FT and instant 3 stacks of Might… C A N U B E A T T H A T ?

I took some crazy time to answer to you because I have a present for you, a very hard screenshot to show you a big difference and you can use it for your own calculus to see how well I can stack Might using Sigil of Battle.
“http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sigil_of_Battle says:
Gain 3 stacks of Might (20 seconds) when you swap to this weapon while in combat.
These sigil have an internal 10 second cooldown.”
So those 20 seconds became 37 seconds, you can swap 4 TIMES getting 3 stacks of Might, that’s 12 STACKS.
VERY IMPORTANT & TODAY’s TEST: To get a miracle of 10 stacks of Might with Sigil of Strength I had to spend 2 minutes constantly hitting a GROUP of golems to get many crits to get one to proc Sigil of Strength and after 20 minutes that’s all I could get, and it wouldn’t even last for long. While with Sigil of Battle after 30 seconds, without even hitting something just remaining in combat, I had 12 stacks and I was able to keep it 12 stacks for 20 minutes CONSTANTLY by just swapping and getting 3 stacks of might with 37 secs duration each.

Phineas Poe.3018:

That’s all my point ever was. If you think Sigil of Battle works better for you then by all means continue to use it. But I’ve had great success with Strength and have had no troubles sustaining it with my playstyle. Let’s put an end to the silly remarks like whether or not you think fourth grade math is “too advanced” for me.

Yup keep using ur Sigil of Strength, people that want to really learn something will for sure accept and keep on with humbleness, but in your case it seems you always want to show you are right, when everyone proves you wrong.
No more math or English classes, I already did all I could to explain as simplest as I could.

Phineas Poe.3018:

Naioby.3705:

You DON’T get 10 critical hits in 1 SECOND, and you CANNOT get more than 1 stack of might in less than 2 seconds (CD), so how the hell do you think u will have 16 stacks of might and they would all last for 10 secs?

I never said that I do get 10 critical hits in 1 second or that I can get more than 1 stack of Might in less than 2 seconds. Where are you reading any of this in my posts?

I really don’t understand people like you, you know you were wrong, you saw the facts I pointed and they were all very clear, YET you still want to find a way to miss-interpret my words and make you feel like you are right? come on, that’s really low, I would never do that and I would for sure accept if I’m wrong. I will show you by quoting stuff you are avoiding, in order to make me look bad.

Phineas Poe.3018:

All Might buffs from Strength last for 10+ seconds. There is no “first” or “last” stack. The only limitation is the 2-second cooldown.

You are saying that all Might Buffs from Strength lasts for 10+ seconds and that there is no FIRST nor LAST stack, which means that you are saying “if I get X stacks from Sigil of Strength, all those X stacks will last for Y seconds… so after Y seconds all the X stacks will go off at the same time”, so lets replace with numbers else I know you will once again misinterpret my words if I use the 10+ thing…. so ok, I don’t know how well is your grammar but I will try to show you what you meant with your statement since I am an English teacher at a University in China (I’m american):
For example let’s take X = 5 stacks, Y = 14 seconds:
with your statement, and taking these example values, you meant this:
“if I get 5 stacks of Might from Sigil of Strength, all those 5 stacks will last for 14 seconds. Then, after 14 seconds, all 5 stacks will go off at the same time”
Maybe you didn’t mean this, maybe you were tired and you wrote this and you made yourself sound as you don’t know how Might stacks works, but, to be honest this is what you meant, and you saw my last post I was very clear on how the stacks work and I got information about it and I even tested it by myself for 2 days running 3 tests which 2 lasted for 1 hour, one lasted for 30 min and one lasted for 1hour and 20 minutes or so.
?

Phineas Poe.3018:

I don’t know why this is such a hard thing for you to accept. It’s an on-crit sigil with a two second cooldown. If your individual Might stacks each last 10 seconds, that means you can get five stacks of Might sustained from Sigil of Strength while using the Flamethrower.

Stop F. with me and please read my posts, I know this before the word “pizza” was ever dreamed of, I even posted the definition from wiki, you just want to look cool after all things that I’ve tested and proved that I am right. Check my two quotes from last posts:

Naioby.3705:

wiki gw2 – Sigil says:
“On-critical sigils
Sigils that trigger on critical hits will trigger on any critical hit dealt by the player, including those from utility skills and toolbelt skills. However, they do not trigger on criticals from mesmer illusions or engineer turrets.”

And this one too:

We also have to take in consideration this:
“On Critical Hits”
Sigils that trigger on critical hits can trigger on any critical hits dealt by the player, with any skill.
This also means that the percentage will only proc on critical hits. For instance Sigil of Strength has 30% AFTER any of the “Critical” hits you do with any skill or weapon shot.

Naioby.3705:

The information from wiki shows the following:
*Sigil of Strength has a Cooldown of 2 secs and gives only 1 stack of Might for 10 seconds… it has a 30% to activate on critical hits

You are just trolling dude, and I’m proving that you are, so please stop it. I say something and you just want to turn it on your side so that you won’t look like “out of place”.

nakoda.4213:

the difference is that you leave ft because you don’t like it.

I swap out to net shot or medkit briefly then im back in FT. jugs might “loss” is minimal.

Dear fellow engineer, why do you have to read my messages the wrong way? I mean I already have enough with Mr. Phineas trying to look good when hes providing wrong information, and now you want to say “I don’t like FT?”. I said, I am a Might stacker, I am an FT user, the only thing is, I really know the PRO-way to counter different professions and builds, at least those that are really nasty such as the burst thief, for which I mostly use my FT in sPvP, and as for PvE you can see me 90% of the time with FT, the rest of the time I’m switching with pistols and other skills, and depending on whats coming I would even get some other skills, I’m not fixed into one thing, but for sure FT will be in my line of skills. I “clearly” said I would take off my FT to lay some napalm wall to combo fire-bullets with it, I DIDN’T say I only use that skill from my FT, and I NEVER said I don’t like FT please… don’t make my life harder, you know I’m not even pointing at you, I just wanted to make CLEAR and I proved with math and calculus and I even tried and tested many times to show that Sigil of Battle stacks MORE than Sigil of Strength, we all learn new stuff and I learned things last year from other posts, and I accept if I get wrong, if someone really shows me I am, with numbers and tests. That’s part of learning. I even said, that if you still like to use Sigil of Strength it’s all your choice, lets remember that if you want to get stacks with Sigil of Battle you really have to have an internal bio-chronometer to swap the right moment twice, else you wont stack that well, you need to know what chain skills to use when u swap to give you the right amount of time and the best DMG in just a couple of seconds and this is why I’m centering in Might stacks for my build. With Sigil of Strength is as simple as keep firing and get stacks slowly, but the stacks will go off FAST, while I do my fast swap twice in exactly 10 secs and I get my 25 stacks faster than any Sigil of Strength user would, and not just that, my stacks will still remain there without any hustle of self buffing every second. I even proved that with Sigil of Strength you ONLY get like 19 Stacks of Might if you hit like crazy for 20 minutes consecutively to a GROUP of golems, usually you would only have like 15 or 16 stacks (JUST sigil of strength,+all 60% runes and alchemy, juggernaut, etc, NO extra buff, elixirs, etc), while I can easily get in just a couple of seconds get 22 stacks and they will stay there, and this is just having my sigil of battle, I proved it with numbers in my last post, you all know this is true and you can test it, feel free to do it, there has been some other ppl that already tried this.

I really appreciate your comments and I have seen your posts in some other topics and they were really nice and I can see the same interest you have for FT as I do. Thanks a lot Mr. Nakoda

Ok listen and learn, and please pay attention this time Mr. Phineas:
*The first time you activate Flame Jet, you will do 10 ticks in 2 seconds, which will most probably will proc 1 stack of Might.
*After the last hit from Flame Jet, you will have a penalty time of 0.5 seconds UNLESS you are under QUICKNESS boon.
*Quickness is an effect that makes all skills and actions activate twice as fast. (http://wiki.guildwars2.com)
*This makes you to have 1 stack of Might after 2.5 seconds of firing your Flame Jet
*Flame Jet’s Critical hit is calculated separately for each of the 10 ticks. Critical hits will proc effects from traits that activate on critical hits. (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Flame_Jet)
*Lemme give you an easier example, If you had 4 crits in 10 ticks, and lets say only 2 of those 4 crits proc the sigil of Strength (30% chance on crit), then ASK yourself, which one of those two will stack your might? both? NO, because you have a 2 sec cooldown, so obviously it’s the first crit that did proc and that one was one of those 4 crits u had. Now lets call each one of those 4 crits like A, B, C, D and let’s say that B and D did proc, but only B will take effect because after B there is gonna be 2 secs CD. The Crit called B happened in 0.6 secs after the first Flame Jet tick, and thats when u received one stack of might. Now math shows Math 2 secs – 0.6 secs = 1.4 secs which means that by the END of all your 10 ticks you will have 1 stack of Might that STARTED with 10 seconds but already passed 1.4 secs, so your stack of Might will have 8.6 seconds LEFT. Then 0.5 to be able to SHOOT your Flame Jet again is also added as a sum, 1.4 + 0.5 = already passed 1.9 seconds since the first stack of Might and it will be 10 – 1.9 = 8.1 seconds of Might LEFT, which in your boon tag will show 8 secs (rounded). after 0.1 secs you will be able to reapply Sigil of Strength, so lets say u were lucky and you get 1 stack of Might in the first hit which DID crit and DID proc (nice coincidence) that would be, 10 secs of 1stack of Might + 8 seconds of Might from Flame Jet #1 crit B. If you don’t understand this, then probably this is way too advanced to you, but I’m sure in this forum there are many ppl that will understand what I am saying and would know this is true.

You don’t get all stacks having the same value, if so then, have you ever noticed your juggernout adding every 3 secs 1 stack of might that lasts for 15 secs? please try this experiment “WITHOUT” duration runes n stuff… Turn on your FT wait for the stacks to grow every 3 seconds till you get 7 stacks, and then afterwards unload your FT and see the numbers going down one by one (not all AT ONCE) every 15 secs. This is the same that happens every time you get a stack of Might from Sigil of Strength. One by one comes, and one by one goes off. Sigil of Battle is different because you receive 3 stacks at ONCE whenever u swap while in combat.

So Phineas, you should really be careful when saying things without even thinking, I love to find details and test everything, and as I previously said, everyone is welcomed to test sPvP Heavy Golems with Runes of Strength+Fire+Hoelbrak and then the sigils to see that the values I mentioned here were NOT lies.

(I’m sorry for any typo but its 5am right now, and my brain has been calculating stuff and even testing all that I said once again)

I TESTED this myself. I took one hour to really make sure I didn’t skip anything, and I did this two days, so I really know what I am saying.

nakoda.4213:

with only 20 points in alchemy and no +duration runes you can self apply 9-12 stacks of might with just juggernaut and enhanced performance before firing a single shot.

I get 10 stacks of might with Juggernaut + rune of fire + rune of strength + rune of hoelbrak, and I just need hit one bullet then swap, and I have in a blink of a eye 13 stacks of might while the first hit (1 tick from all 10 ticks) with Sigil of Strength will only have 10 Stacks of Might maybe 11, and it will be that much for the entire 10 ticks while I have 13 stacks of Might. My point is simple, Sigil of Battle stacks more than sigil of strength; the only way Sigil of Strength could be useful for a FT is if ANET fixes the bug that sigil’s has with mixing cooldowns and getting a sick 45 sec cooldown as wiki said, I also tested it and its true its bugged. If they fix it I would even go for Sigil of Strength + Sigil of Battle, but for now the best choice is Sigil of Battle.

Here’s someone else that tested it having a similar test:

Vuh.1328:

I just did some tests in the mist with STR, FIRE, Hoelbrak runes + 30 in alchemy.
With strength i could keep 9 stacks of might up permanently vs the golems. With battle i could have 12 sometimes spiking to 15, however i had to keep track of when to swap weapon but it also allow me to keep my might stacks up even when i’m not shooting aslong as i’m in combat..

i did my test without either enhanced performance or juggernaut, just to keep track of the sigils

I’m not the only one who tested this, and you are totally welcome to try even for 2 hours. Probably after 1 hour you will get lucky to match 22 stacks of Might using Sigil of Strength but I will tell you this "are you going to be standing in front a GC mesmer or a Burst thief for 1 hour untill u get to hit him with 22 stacks? LOL NO

No matter how you test it, it will always show that Sigil of Battle works better for FT than Sigil of Strength and we all agree with it and its math.

Phineas Poe.3018:

All Might buffs from Strength last for 10+ seconds. There is no “first” or “last” stack. The only limitation is the 2-second cooldown.

You are always trying to contradict my assertions without even thinking. Check this example of a boon which has a Similarity with the duration behavior of Might duration:
wiki gw2 – Effect stacking:
“Example 10 seconds of regeneration are applied to a target from a level 80 player with 1500 Healing Power. 5 seconds later, 10 seconds of regeneration are applied to a target from a level 80 player with 2000 Healing Power. The player will experience 317.5 health per second for the first 5 seconds, then 380 health per second for the next 10 seconds, then 317.5 health per second for the next 5 seconds.
wiki gw2 – Sigil says:
“On-critical sigils
Sigils that trigger on critical hits will trigger on any critical hit dealt by the player, including those from utility skills and toolbelt skills. However, they do not trigger on criticals from mesmer illusions or engineer turrets.”

Flame Jet does 10 ticks and takes 2 seconds to get all 10 ticks to hit. this means 0.2 seconds per tick. Also you don’t hit 20 ticks in 2 seconds, u do only 10 and each tick is single not double. Sigil of Strength gives 10 seconds everytime 30% procs on a critical hit. You DON’T get 10 critical hits in 1 SECOND, and you CANNOT get more than 1 stack of might in less than 2 seconds (CD), so how the hell do you think u will have 16 stacks of might and they would all last for 10 secs? is that what you thought???? dear son, you have guide about FT and you don’t know something this simple and you even dare to say it without even investigating or testing it by yourself?

@Phineas Poe.3018
@nakoda.4213

Myself, I am a “Might stacker” and I really know when I set things into math. These calculus were made without taking consideration any boon duration runes or traits or anything at all. I have set of runes to extend ONLY Might that means +20% each PAIR of runes. I’m not even talking about those 15% boon duration runes, Im talking +20% and I am running with alchemy + firearms which means I have extra boon duration and juggernaut. I get 9 stacks of Might by just standing with my FT, and if I boost myself I get 25 stacks of might easily just by tossing stuff and it will remain there without any effort. I didn’t want to mention or add into calculus any boon duration bonus or runes, etc for a VERY simple reason: “Sigil of Battle will stack even MORE than Sigil of Strength if I get Might duration runes and traits with alchemy!!!”

Guys I don’t want to raise any sarcasm but for real you have to think before posting, I do research every single time I post to make sure I wont mislead or give false information or erroneous data. This is BASIC mathematics:

(10 secs duration of might from Sigil of Strength * 20 percent extra might duration from just one pair of runes) / 100 percent
EQUALS TO = extra 2 seconds + 10 seconds = 12 seconds total

20 secs duration of might from Sigil of Battle * 20 percent extra might duration from just one pair of runes) / 100 percent
EQUALS TO = extra 4 seconds + 20 seconds = 24 seconds

With Sigil of Strength, I would only get 11 to 13 (out from 5 tries just one gave me 13 and lasted for less than half a second) stacks of might during all the process of KILLING a Heavy Golem at sPvP, that means finish depleting all his hp bar and making him dissapear. Also the first 1 hit I would only have 9 – 10 stacks of Might then the second to the 4rth Flame Jet (total of 40 ticks) I would only have 10 to 11 stacks of Might. Even with high precision I would still fail sometimes to get 1 stack of Might.

With Sigil of Battle, I would directly get 12 to 13 stacks of might saying (9 to 10 Juggernaut) + 3 = 12 to 13 stacks of Might from the FIRST tick of 1 Flame Jet. Then “during” and “after” finishing and killing the Heavy Golem I would have 14 to 16 stacks of might. The wacky thing is, after destroying the Golem, I would just sit down with my stacks hanging there for extra seconds and I would even see it go up while I was eating a pizza (and I’m not exaggerating). After 5 Golems it would be the same result and same numbers, its constant, its INSTANT, and it is DIRECT.

When I went to try Sigil of Strength with the group of golems for SEVERAL minutes continuously hitting my numerical key “1” for FJ, Sigil of Strength would only go as far as 16-19 stacks of Might, usually having only 16 or 17 stacks, after 20 minutes I was lucky and I had 20 stacks of might which lasted for. . . . Less than a QUARTER of a second -_- (0.25 secs)

Same experiment with Sigil of Battle gave me 19 to 22 stacks of Might, and whenever I would get 22 stacks, it would last a little more than 2 seconds! I used a metronome and I also used a chronometer. I even tested without counting those 9.5 seconds to swap, you know, as we normally play, using our common sense and I was able to have constant 19 to 20 stacks of Might. Damage was ALWAYS there.

If you guys didn’t know, Might makes your current condition dmg vary, so if you inflicted burn or any other condition dmg, it will get weaker if your MIGHT goes down, EVEN if you had 25 stacks of Might when u applied the condition dmg, it will decrease its damage along with your stacks going down the hill. In a game that you are always thinking that you have to make as much dmg as possible before HE or SHE kills you, this is what it really counts and please TELL ME if I’m wrong? O_O
You might want to play a hit and run game and you want to just throw a flame blast with incendiary ammo while you are hidding behind a rock and then wait for someone else to kill that guy, if that’s the gameplay you like then ok, use the sigils you want, I wont even bother you, but here we are talking of a dmg from the first tick to the last tick and till the time your oponent is down and the viability of a sigil, so you wont be buffing like crazy and concentrated into buffing yourself to keep 25 stacks of Might. You can easily enjoy of + 37 seconds of Might and keep hitting your target and make some real dmg, instead of just being a cheerleader buffing yourself without shooting a thing + standing beside your comrades that are sweating hitting mobs in dungeons.

nakoda.4213:

You apply bleed because of the 5pt minor trait in firearms.
You are really reducing your dmg by not having incendiary ammo.

Try Rampager’s gear in sPvP.

this is benny in sPvP with rampager amulet and 6pc Runes of the Forge

Hi Nakoda dear friend, yes I think you are totally right, this build works perfectly if you go as for condition duration, also tactics like hit and run or AoE range. The only problem is if you face a condition remover opponent but you will still be making some other nice kills. Good point thanks.

About the incendiary ammo, I think u meant the trait Incendiary Powder, I already know what you just said, and you are 100% right, but as I explained, I didn’t take it just to make a clear test with this experiment. My real game play includes “incendiary powder” trait, specially after the new patch. The main purpose of my test is to elaborate a new build based on how much dmg I can get all together conditions + power + crits in 1 second so I’m trying to get short conditions but maxed and mixed (all attributes) and find the best combination to inflict high dmg, that’s also why I’m centering on 25 stacks of might. For the experiment I wont be using the 25 stacks of might nor the incendiary powder just to get a clear view and calculations.

Zinwrath.2049:

Also consider the burn damage on flame jet is only 1 second, meaning you get to do a lot of damage that goes past toughness, but ALSO cannot be countered by most condition wipes because your conditions do a lot of damage really fast then go away till you apply them again.
Still dont think flame thrower is the greatest thing in spvp needing just a couple more minor tweaks to bring it up to par, but after last patch i have definitly made it fit into any condition spreading build i use.

Yup u totally read my mind, this is what I started to realize, you can inflict a 1 sec condition duration but that 1 sec can be increased a lot making it Lethal, therefore I thought about 25 stacks of might, which at the same time increases ur power, but as I tested, seems conditions would provide more of a burst than just having plain power + crits and low cond dmg. Also it’s all about how do you manage to make a burst chain. in 5 secs you wont just toss a spray of FJ, but you will also switch to guns for example, or if the oponent is ranged, then you can even toss a wall of napalm and use it to combo with fire bullets + incendiary ammo.

Anyways thank you both for your comments keep the ideas comming pelase

AryasRevenge.3175:

I also go for CD but i keep some stats with power/crit since our base crit isnt that bad.

Nice point of view… Im thinking yeah like probably two armor pieces with berserker stats. I think we can deal bunch of dmg if we try to imagine the total dmg conditions + power.

Hi guys, I have been studying with deep calculus about the FT and numbers out of it. I tested it in sPvP since its easier to test and very versatile. My test was comparing carrion (Cond + power) vs Berserker (Power + Crit dmg). Both having 8-9 stacks of Might, same runes with +25 power and might duration, armors of course has no stats because its sPvP the only difference was 2 trinkets (the ones I mentioned above).

I tested with one single Flame Jet shot and then screenshot. For each trinket I did 7 shots, and 3 shots with incendiary ammo. I noticed that FT provides some nice bleeding condition as well as the last hit with Burn. I didn’t use the trait for incendiary powder just to make things fair and test. I also noticed I would inflict more dmg to a Heavy Golem with Carrion than with Berserker, because FT was inflicting bleed + burn. With incendiary ammo the difference was even bigger, around 85% to 95% of the hp from Golem using Carrion, and only 60% to 70% max using Berserker.

I’m starting to question myself about Power, since we inflict bleed and the new upgrade we received for flamethrowers a 10% more dmg to burning enemies makes me want to go condition dmg, carrion(cond main then power) with incendiary powder to really inflict some crazy burns. Not just thinking about the AoE dmg, but also knowing that the most important thing is how to inflict most dmg in less time. Flame Jet with power you might get like 200 to 500 or a little more, for just one tick, I’m thinking 25 stacks of Might having +875 Power and +875 condition and then adding Condition as main then power, will probably inflict more dmg one one single tick the problem is, Combat Chat mode wont display the condition dmg but we can try to calc the Bleed + Burn + simple hit = X and this one from the tests I have been running would be higher than saying going full Berserker. Another option would be Aidan set focusing Precision, then cond + power, which would make sure to get the crits to land 30% burning from traits. I’m starting to get a little confused so I would really appreciate your points of view. Please also take in consideration the 25 stacks of Might at the same time or any other ideas or suggestions. Also please remember we are only talking about FT not grenade kit or something else.
Thanks a bunch

Zinwrath.2049:

Are you just wanting screen shots of flame jet or is there another meaning behind this?

I only spvp so i can only show a screen shot for that. I’m pretty sure i’ve tinkered around and found out how to get the highest numbers from the ability in spvp, but the build isnt ideal for any game mode and flame jet is not an ideal ability to use in spvp. But if this is just about seeing numbers, i can totally upload it

It would be very interesting to see your numbers in sPvP, probably aiming a Golem and sharing what is the build for it. About Flame Jet and sPvP, I think it’s not crucial but as my personal opinion, I can’t say it’s not ideal, since you can totally counter a burst thief using your FT, for other cases then you just run with FT to charge Might and then lay a napalm and switch to guns to get combo fire shots + other stuff.

Screenshots are all welcomed please upload

Macha.9160:

Shoyoko’s “sickman”-build…. but not with the right gear… 3 pieces still missing + 2 runes of alturism

Just used the dummys in LA^^

Very nice shot I like the look of your engi.
Rune of Altruism rocks

For example, from 10 ticks you did 7 crits, from which only the crit #2 and #5 did proc the 30% from the sigil, BUT you have 2 sec CD which means you only received one stack of Might from the crit # 2, and this crit #2 activated on the 3rd tick, which is around 0.3 seconds after the first FJ hit, so math goes like this 2.5 – 0.3 = 2.2 seconds past the beginning of stack till the end of the FJ shot, once you finished the first shot of FJ you will have 1 stack of might with 7.8 seconds LEFT (2.2 – 10 = 7.8) and NOT 10 seconds left. You will barelly see 4 stacks because the last stack of might will usually last LESS than 1 second most of the time.
Having this explanation we can asume the following conclusions:
1. You will “most of the time” have 3 stacks of Might using Sigil of Strength after 10 seconds
2. GW2 boons has no decimals shown, for instance, condition duration is rounded to nearest quarter of a second (0s, ¼, ½, ¾ and 1s). As for Boons I’m not sure how it is rounded, probably to half second or a quarter, but for sure it is rounded, so if you have 0.14 seconds left of Might = 0 secs of duration = Zero Stacks of Might.
3. You ONLY get one stack of Might from a single FJ shot.
4. Sigil of Battle gives you instant 3 Stacks of Might which means, while you are FJ shooting me with +35 power & cond on some hits (you usually won’t get might on the first tick, let’s get real), I will shoot you with +105 power & cond EVERY tick.
5. After 5 seconds you will only have 2 stacks of Might. After 10 seconds you will have 3 or 4 stacks of Might from Sigil of Strength. And if I use Sigil of Battle, during all 5 seconds I will have 3 stacks of Might (while you only had 1 or 2) and then after 10 seconds I will have 6 stacks of Might (while you have 3 or 4) because this Sigil’s stacks lasts for 20 seconds, while Sigil of Strength only lasts 10 seconds. I will do more dmg with Sigil of battle in a short period of time and in long term as well. Also let’s not forget that the “Sigil of Strength’s 4rth stack of might” wont last for more than 1 tick (and this is IF you are lucky to get that 4rth tick). Besides you won’t be able to stack as much as you can with Sigil of Battle (20 secs of Might).

Phineas Poe.3018:

Errr … no?
It has a 30% chance to give you 10 seconds of Might. It has a 2-second internal cooldown.
Because the Flame Jet crits often, that means you will often have 5 stacks of Might.

As for your reply…
Errr… YES!
“You will OFTEN have 2 stacks of might after 5 seconds and you will still have 3 stacks of Might after 10 seconds, while I will ALWAYS have 3 stacks of might since the first second, and 6 stacks of might after 10 seconds”

So the big question is where did you see 5 stacks of Might? lol… maybe you are confusing your current stacks out from Juggernaut trait? or maybe… “inexperience”?

My apologies to everyone, for my vacation, I couldn’t get a way to check this post, I was out for a short vacation and those 3 days became 8 days because my gf loved it.

Phineas Poe.3018:

Naioby.3705:

secondly, it has 10 secs of might, but it will only give you 1 stack of might

Errr … no?
It has a 30% chance to give you 10 seconds of Might. It has a 2-second internal cooldown.
Because the Flame Jet crits often, that means you will often have 5 stacks of Might.

Omg… seriously? I will contribute with my calculus & personal experience about sigils. The information from wiki shows the following:
*Sigil of Strength has a Cooldown of 2 secs and gives only 1 stack of Might for 10 seconds… it has a 30% to activate on critical hits
*Sigil of Battle has a 9-10 secs Cooldown and gives 3 stacks of Might for 20 seconds!!

We also have to take in consideration this:
“On Critical Hits”
Sigils that trigger on critical hits can trigger on any critical hits dealt by the player, with any skill.
This also means that the percentage will only proc on critical hits. For instance Sigil of Strength has 30% AFTER any of the “Critical” hits you do with any skill or weapon shot.

Now for the calculus a Flame Jet shot has 10 ticks, it lasts for 2 secs and Sigil of Strength has a cool down of 2 secs, which means you can only get 1 stack of might from any of the critical hits you do from all those 10 ticks (and this is IF you get to make any critical at all). Please don’t say “of course we will do crits, we are engs, and we have an FT” I know this, I’m just trying to explain that no matter if you get to make 10 CRITS from all 10 ticks from ONE Flame Jet shot… you will still get 1 stack of might. So try to think about this:

Flame Jet, the information in wiki says 2.25 secs = 10 ticks. I tested it with a chronometer and it is exactly 2 seconds. The channeling bar also lasts for 2 seconds, I also know that from the first hit that lands on a target, to the last tick/hit its about 1.97 seconds or even less, so I don’t know where does the 2.25 secs in wiki comes from, maybe they count the small smoke fx after shot?

So having your Flame Jet providing 10 ticks in 2 seconds, and the Sigil of Strength having a 2sec CD, and also knowing that the 30% only counts AFTER each crit (which means that there is 70% of NOT getting sigil to proc on a crit) you should at least have one of the crits from 10 ticks to proc, but you still have a 2 sec cooldown, in conclusion you can ONLY receive one stack of might per 10 ticks of 1 Flame Jet shot, and if you have a very low Crit Chance then, you might even end up with no extra stack of might from the sigil. Let’s remember that the NEXT shot of Flame Jet would be ready after half second, unless ur under Quickness boon (I tested this many times with a chronometer). So if we do a simple calculus we have 1 stack of might every 2.5 seconds (I’m counting the time that takes to shoot your NEXT FJ), and it will only last for 10 seconds, while Sigil of Battle you get 3 stacks of might instantly by swapping and it will last for 20 seconds. Now let’s use some math for the long term effect:
10 seconds of Might duration from Sigil of Strength diveded into 2.5 secs of each line of fire equals to 4 SHOTS of Flame Jet, and it will provide 3 or 4 stacks of might and the calculus goes as follows:
1rst shot = less than 2.5 seconds of Might
2nd shot = less than 5 seconds of Might
3rd shot = less than 7.5 seconds of Might
4rth shot = less than 10 seconds of Might
This data above shows 4 stacks of Might, provided that the last FJ tick “did” crit and also “did” proc the 30% from the sigil. Therefore the reason I stipulate “Less than” is because you will probably get the stack of Might at the first crit or any other crit, and it will start counting from the moment you got the stack.

Bynji.1907:

I average around 5k with flame jet and 6k with flame blast in fractals 30.
Pic is the build I use.

I think lifesteal on crit is still worth it. With backpack regen it amounts to about 445 healing a second.

Nice screenshot and very good idea to show the Battle Chat to show the dmg per tick!

I’m sorry to everyone, I was supposed to have a 3 day vacation, but … it was so nice, and my gf wanted to stay a whole week…

Please keep posting, as for “Training dummy” in LA… Google is still number one. As for nice information an a very nice shot, Bynji is number one as well

LETS SEE MORE SCREENIES!!!! yeahhhh

Google: nice! this is the kind of screenie I wanted to see
I will have to retake my screenshot with something that’s not MF trinkets+ pistols (dual handheld disaster) T___T its my Orr build

Please ppl keep the nice screenshots coming, I think its a good idea to keep the practice dummy screenies. For those that wanna show off crits please suggest a specific target where we could see your build + armor + weapons doing a nice crit, dont be shy we won’t troll you. This is a friendly topic.

The winner “by now” is Mr. Google… yay!!!! Thanks for the nice screenie

Note: I think we all agree that if you don’t post your screenie and you say your dmg it won’t count

Shoyoko.7309:

[img]http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/1671/gw020zd.jpg[/img]

My sincere apologies, I tried the link today and I was able to see it :P, sorry, and by the way, nice 3268 crit. I would also appreciate if its not too much to ask if you could try the practice dummy @ LA Fort Warriner.

Kamahl.3621:

If you wanna go raw damage, as of this patch, best bet is to juggle the hard hitting skills between flamethrower (all 1 of them), grenade kit (3), and elixir gun (1 skill, but it also has several heals), as well as your main weapon, the rifle, which has 2 hard hitting abilities. While waiting, use grenade kit’s auto attack. 25 might stacks is a present, easily doable build, but the damage you lose out from staying in flamethrower, using 6 might runes (instead of 6 rubies, with regards to PvE), and the critical damage lost from tools (as well as the 10% more damage with full endurance versus 5% while bleeding), just heavily tips it in the non-flamethrower’s favor. While you can still maintain 25 might stacks without flamethrower (22+ easily) with HGH setup, that has the same issue of taking points away from a damage traitline for the sake of more power. 6 stacks of power = ~9% more damage (from a baseline berserker setup, all rubies – taking away the crit damage actually reduces this % by a small amount). That, and you forfeit some of your better damage abilities for elixir B and [elixir of your choice] alongside, well, grenade kit. After the patch, I’m taking flamethrower just for the 2. It hits harder than a level 3 eviscerate on a 6 second cooldown, without the 15% damage trait. Then swap back to grenades and keep hammering away (or elixir gun and pop off acid bomb in your fire field).

Really nice comment, I like your points. Now I might even try to put some EG, see how well I can mix with the new patch. Just in case I’m not running 6 might runes, I said 4 might runes, both includes +25 power and +20% might dur, the other 2 runes = not power not cond, it’s my special secret I might post my build after my 3 days vacation starting tomorrow(My gf’s bd). I use FT mostly when I’m surrounded by mobs, and we all know how fast we can hit em + incendiary ammo (ik 3 hits but we do need to count the 30% burn from traits and the last FJ hit) on a fast spin, then switch to pistols static + Blowtorch. In PvP I can lay a napalm and use my explosive shots to do some nice range burning combo and still keep around 20 – 24 might (Sigil of Battle is so kitten sexy). Grenades its also a nice adding, but I preffer nades for WvW. I wouldn’t go full tools cuz if we talk about endurance, in PvP its very rare to have 100% endurance, cuz you are always dodging as a good PvP player. Trinkets, I combine rubies and cond dmg. So we might be almost in the same page, but I still think nades are better in WvW than PvP, my personal opinion. Thanks your’s a very nice and instructive comment.

Please screenshots guys, read the main post thanks a bunch

(btw I do 1843 dmg on a dummy “no crits”, you might want to check my real dmg with crits and not even counting the cond dmg I inflict)

And yes Superior Sigil of Battle is the best Ally ^_^

BTW any suggestion for a default target (for us to show screenshots) rather than the Azura heavy golem? (we are missing runes and some other stuff to count)… any place to try out around PvE? thanks

Phineas Poe.3018:

I never said you should go into anything unbuffed.

You didn’t, but you are comparing unbuffed dmgs. Please remember “25 stacks of might” is 875 power and 875 condition dmg. My build is NOT condition dmg and I never said that my build is condition dmg, I think ur misunderstanding. I tried many different builds, and none of them would really give me a good DMG + Survivability on dungeons + PvP (I specialize myself on killing those 6sec burst kill thieves), so I came with my own build, now I have set of 3 pairs of runes which none of them has condition dmg on em, in fact, 4 of them are power + %might duration (the other 2 runes = Not power, Not cond dmg). In my opinion, which I would like to test, is that in a dungeon run, or in PVP I would do more dps dmg than any “plain” power based FT, because I’m not only buffed with a bunch of power, but I’m buffed with 875 cond doing a Flame Jet dmg with incendiary ammo and incendiary powder (trait) which summarizing I would be doing failry more dmg with my “direct dmg + condition dmg” in 3 seconds than a Flame Jet with only plain direct dmg with a lil cond dmg.

Phineas Poe.3018:

the majority of damage you dish out with your Flamethrower is modified by Power, not Condition Damage. That’s why I said that using Sigil of Strength and Sigil of Bloodlust is a better method for stat allocation.

I have experience on sigils, and I will help you with this, Sigil of Bloodlust is a “yes” in PvE, because in PvP it would only give you +5 per kill, and of course you loose all stacks when downed. Sigil of Strength is definitelly a “no”, I tried it, and I had to resell it back, first of all its 30% per crit, so u need a crit to trigger this, not a biggie yeah we all crit like crazy, that’s not the problem, secondly, it has 10 secs of might, but it will only give you 1 stack of might, lastly, you get more benefit from sigil of battle “if” you really know how to use a FT, cuz real pro FT users would not just spam Flame Jet as a 5yo receiving a Xmas present, as pro users we should swap constantly to get most of the dmg done and considering the FAST casting of Static Shot that proc so beautifully with Incendiary Ammo, then immediately casting Blowtorch then swapping to FT + Air Blast (to increase 2 seconds of my insane Blowtorch dmg) then evade backwards (distance) + Flame Blast > Flame Jet twice, then swap pistol > Volley, ETC. Dude while I’m doing this I’m stacking might like crazy, if you party me on any dungeon run I would constantly have 25 stacks while fighting, and 18-22 while running (out of combat). You might say “hahaha Sigil of Battle? u kidding me? it has 9.5 secs CD, while Sigil of Strength has 2 sec CD” then I would say “Sigil of Battle grants 3 stacks of might for 20 seconds, even if it has a CD of 9.5 secs I will still have 3 stacks of might while Sigil of Strenght will grants me 1-2 stacks of might”. I will repeat, I tested this many times, I had both Sigils and I kept Sigil of Battle, I’m a 25 Stack Might runner and I know this for sure.

Phineas Poe.3018:

And let’s not forget out combo field Napalm which of course grants Area Might on a Blast finisher which buffs the group’s damage as a whole a lot more than some paltry Burn damage.

Dude, really? you are talking to someone that has 25 Stacks of Might all the time, u think I don’t know this? I mean… we all know that fire + blast = might, oh and btw its 3 stacks of might in case u didn’t know, rather if you use ur Rocket boots, your Shield blast, Acid bomb, or your Crate (and please don’t mention others cuz I know all combos available and all of results from each one of them). Why don’t you quote the whole phrase man? I was talking about which skills from FT kit causes condition dmg:

you say FT is mostly direct dmg, but you have incendiary ammo + Flame jet burn + 30% burns on crit trait (which are easier to trigger with your Flame Jet) + bleed (eg. if you get sigil of earth thats 60% triggered on crits, with 2 sec CD) and lets not forget our combo field napalm which of course inflicts burn.

It’s clearly your desperate way to expose me as an “inexperienced” FT user as you said, while I’m not. I really laughed when I read what you’ve wrote, come on man, 25 Stacks of might and I tried many FT builds and u say this? ROFL

Phineas Poe.3018:

Who said anything about shooting a rifle or pistol?

You did!

Phineas Poe.3018:

“Call it inexperience” but in my mind it seems pretty obvious the Engineer dual wielding pistols is going to get a lot more out of their Flamethrower stacking Power and Might over Condition Damage and Might

:D

You give me a headache.

ditto hahaha

Phineas Poe.3018:

Naioby.3705:

Talking about power based kit vs condition, we are talking about a Flamethrower that spreads fire, and fire has a burning condition dmg, so what are you talking about? this is a mix between 2 different types of dmg, power + condition.

Correction: We are talking about a Flamethrower that spreads fire for, unbuffed, 490 direct damage over 10 attacks and 328 Burning damage. We are also taking about a Flamethrower that shoots a ball of napalm for 244 direct damage and a blast of 569 direct damage.

Between spamming Flame Jet and Flame Blast, the overwhelming majority of your damage will be based not on Condition Damage but Power and Precision. “Call it inexperience” but in my mind it seems pretty obvious the Engineer dual wielding pistols is going to get a lot more out of their Flamethrower stacking Power and Might over Condition Damage and Might, especially if you’re grouped with any other class that also deals Burn damage consistently (i.e., Guardian or Elementalist).

Ok maybe it’s not inexperience but lack of analysis from your side. Why would I go unbuffed for a dungeon run? and unbuffed with a FT? I’m not that nuts hahaha. Son, if you go for instance, full 25 stacks of might, and you are surrounded with lots of mobs and ur the only one standing alive in a dungeon (I had this many times b4 and I did survive), I wanna see you pew-pew-laser-shots without taking ur FT and swing it with incendiary ammo after you use static shot (confusion + blind) pistols again use torch (spread) then again FT push + attacks…. tell me… how do u survive against that many using just pistols without any other kit? I know I know… u will say, but hey I use some other kits, that’s logic… well that’s the same point I’m trying to let you understand… I won’t use an unbuffed FT, I even have some diff pistols with diff sigils depending on the scenario… not just that… I’m versatile… if you run with me a 9-10 min CoF u will see me using all kinds of stuff (even turrets set on places cannot be reached + mortar O_o) and ppl in my party would go like, wow wtf u could do that with a mortar? (just a hint… mortar = agro + heal + push… great AC… I won’t explain u gotta party me to see it). And since I already see a pattern on how you are thinking while reading my posts, I can step forward and say, “yeah you might say I don’t relly on my FT, but my FT is my 80% in dungeons and any other PvE zone, even PvP” if you go just power, then ur having a single plain dmg with very little cond dmg… if I go my build I have healing, maybe more power and for sure more cond than you might have and both counts when using your FT. So in order to let myself be understandable, what I mean is, you say FT is mostly direct dmg, but you have incendiary ammo + Flame jet burn + 30% burns on crit trait (which are easier to trigger with your Flame Jet) + bleed (eg. if you get sigil of earth thats 60% triggered on crits, with 2 sec CD) and lets not forget our combo field napalm which of course inflicts burn. Do you see me hitting with a pew-pew gun for low dmg and slow shots, or do you see me placing a napalm before I reached my zone then firing Flame jet, switch (get might buff) static + torch + volley, elixir S (get might), FT> Flame jet + inc ammo, napalm, combo aoe might, etc etc etc? I’m stacking more burning duration that anything you would ever do by just shooting a rifle or a pistol, and with 25 stacks cond dmg hurst like lava, and 875 power from it, hits like a truck. Lets say you are going full power… I can go full power too because my runes are almost full power (tbh, my runes has no condition dmg but I have 25 stacks of might almost 100% of the time). You see the numbers u hit, but ur not looking at how much cond dmg you inflict with burns, remember burning is one of the most powerful condition dmg in game, and in order to know what is really taking your hp off (lets say PVP) it is the sum of all the direct dmg (subtracting armor n protective skills etc) + all condition dmg you inflict (I can inflict posion, bleeds, confusion, burns, vulnerability in less than 3 secs). One word, be versatile my friend… that is the main thing of being an engineer, you might love one weapon, one build, but you have to always switch combine and do stuff around, from what you mostly like
For Bruce Lee lover’s would be more like… “Be like water my friend” hehehe (means, don’t stick to one thing, many scenarios different options, if you have the tools use em to adjust yourself and do your best)

Phineas Poe.3018:

But please, tell me more about what I would say.

I just did boo-yah