Showing Posts For Novomundum.8325:
So you rather sacrifice flexibilty of function (that other professions already have and are combating your listed issues perfectly fine) for people with bad computer setups and L2P problems?
You know which profession has a worse button mashing problem? The elementalist and anyone who complains about it gets blasted with “L2P noob”. A skilled engineer could easily just drop, activate special mechanic and return to kit smoothly since the kit only has a 1 sec cd. In addition to the fact that the 1 sec cd was made for noobs.
Bad fps, ping, and lag are all problems that everyone has to deal with not just engineers and it’s worse for professions that do have weapon swap mechanics and they have legitimate consequences because of weapon swap cd. But players blame their systems or geography, not the game. To sacrifice mechanical potential because of computer issues unrelated to the actual content of the game is just bad design.
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It should stay as is. Since skills from the engi Rocket charge, Magnet, acid leap needs to be canceled sometimes. And that can only happen if we weapon swap. It doesn’t work just from pressing the kit.
Read my last comment.
Other professions have “kit-like” utilities, too; nowhere near engineer’s dependence on their kits, of course. The problem you proposed can be easily solved by what other professions already do: Simply replace the the usual weapon swap function with the drop function when carrying a bundle and then immediately revert back to its original function once the bundle dropped.
Not to mention, the 1 sec cd was only placed on kits later on in game as a quality of life for double tappers. Anet could easily add-in an option to have no kit cd like how it was at launch for the more skilled veterans of the game. These cool-down and finding the correct kit hotkey problems you proposed seems more like a L2P problem than an actual design issue.
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The weapon swap key already has a perfectly fine funtion.
It’s called “switch back from kit to weapon”.
That’s a universal function that all professions share. Not to mention it isn’t even necessary for engineer specifically because they always have other ways to drop their current kit without swap. Engineer builds are also beginning to be less reliant on kits, anyway. I’m just saying that this hotkey can fulfill much more purposes for the engineer (and maybe elementalist) compared to what it already does plus more for other professions.
I like to suggest that the Weapon Swap Hotkey be modified for engineers specifically for activating their specialization mechanics such as the Function Gyro and the upcoming Photon Forge. It would provide more control and quality of life to current and future mechanics. Engineers are probably never getting a secondary weapon set to swap to anyway so I don’t see an issue with assigning it other useful functions. I suppose elementalist may also benefit from this but I believe it would be most useful for engineers.
I love the ideas. The skill is so clunky and counterintuitive. I like to add my own take on the skill though:
Grasping Shadows -> 600 range teleport/leap with a properly telegraphed attack (so there is some counteplay to it) and gain access to “Leaping Shadows” ONLY if the attack lands.
Leaping Shadows -> 1200/900 range return to original position and has a 900 range unblockable/unevadable pull the target hit by Grasping Shadows. The pull can be blocked by objects such as walls and rocks, but you can still return to your original position even if the pull was countered.
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You may want to check my old CDI thread. I guess you will find your solution there.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Symbiosis-The-Ranger-and-the-CDI
Groud-targeting! I would never have though of that! That would definitely make it easier to use the pet.
Yes we do seriously need more control over our pets, changer. But I still think that the our current toggle is just a repeat of the F1 and F3. I would like better control over my pet and I actually want the toggle to be hotkey’d. How about this?
F1: attack my target
F2: pet skill
F3: the toggle
I really don’t see how return and passive are different. They both basically calls your pet back. Only difference is return is like a boomerang when set to aggressive and useless when set to passive. Set toggle to aggressive and it will continuously attack its target and you can select its target using F1. Set toggle to passive and it will stay by your side and do a boomerang to your target and back when you use F1. Set toggle from aggressive to passive for it to return and stay by your side to attack the pests on your shoes but it is still locked onto its original target and will return to it once you’ve toggled back to aggressive unless you use F1 on another target.
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I’m not saying “You obviously suck at this, go play something you suck less at”, not at all. All I’m saying is, if having a pet (core mechanic of the class) and having to rely on it doesn’t suit you and you dislike it (which your post says), go play something you don’t dislike from its core existence alone. It’s like complaining you hate candy for lunch but going shopping to candy store, anyway.
I had high hopes for the pet. I came in fully expecting I’ll play a awesome sniper with a trustworthy company by my side. But AIs simply don’t work. It just don’t. Not because it’s bad but because AIs can’t read minds. Not even in a million years will they make an AI that will cooperate with you in perfect rhythm. Necromancers, engineers, and mesmers all suffer from this. Necromancers suffer the most because unlike the latter two, minion masters require their minions to be alive at all costs. Mesmers illusions tend to be used as expendable decoys and sacrifices that can be easily and freely replaced as long as you’re not outnumbered. The only problem they have is when they are built around phantasms and need to keep them alive to deal damage. Engineers may need to to keep their turrets alive for a bit but generally they fare better because the turrets are designed to be easily taken out and placed back in if time allows it. But Necromancers and Rangers fare far worse cause their minions/pets need to be kept alive at all costs. Because of all this I lost hope for any good AIs. So I just hate the pet cause it’s what made rangers so hard to play. I wished that the minions and pets worked more like the mesmers’ illusion. Sure they still suffer from faulty AIs but because the illusions are destroyed and replaced so quickly most of the time it doesn’t matter.
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The game would know if you want your pet to stay passive or aggressive because you would leave it in the mode you want. The current system is still a mess when it comes to keeping track of your pet when there are multiple targets anyways. So why is it a problem that it’s hard to keep track of your pet with F1toggle when the current system faces the same problem? The problems you’ve stated with F1toggle still exists with the current system and it isn’t that it needs more work on the AI. The truth of the matter is that controls will grow gradually more and more chaotic and hard to use when the number of targets rise. At least with F1toggle allows you stop your pet from headbutting into the approaching zerg without having to constantly press F3 or scroll your mouse over to click the toggle.
At this point, I do disagree with you. The current system is not easy and reliable. Far from it.
If you don’t want to use a pet and dislike it as strong as your post implies, I suggest you play a warrior. Or any other class that suits you better. Because pet (and its proper handling, which is what the F1 and F3 keys are made for) is a mechanic that’s as crucial to the ranger as elemental atunements are to elementalists or gear packs for the engineer. Without a pet, you’re just undereuqipped thief. Or warrior with severe lack of armor. So it might be better to play those to avoid the hassle. So if ANet really stripped that away… well, no reason to keep the class around when there are way better ones to suit those needs, right?
I’m actually kind of hurt at this part, everything you said above makes sense and are worth considering. But I should tell you that I play all professions and have made all of them level 80. In most games I play, I like sneaky classes/professions with either a sniper feel or a dual sword wielding kitten. So naturally the ranger is my fave pick right after the thief. But when I started playing the ranger, the pet just made everything so awful. I feel like a way more awesome sniper as a warrior and the warrior isn’t exactly the sneaky type that I like so much.
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To make it easier to say, I’m gonna call my idea F1toggle.
I do not disagree with you, Changer. You make valid points on how to correctly use those buttons. But the F1toggle can do the same with a bit of programming. F1toggle will not have a CD and will be used instantly. If you want you’re pet to attack and retreat, double tap from passive-aggressive-passive. With a bit of programming you can also get it to attack a specific target. Select a target that you want your pet to attack with F1toggle and go from aggressive-passive-aggressive if your pet is currently attacking something else or simply passive-aggressive if your pet is in passive and unoccupied. Sure it will get some getting used to but all you’re doing is simply double tapping or just a single tap in order to control your pet. With the added advantage of having an attack, retreat, and toggle button on just 1 key.
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I have been playing the ranger for sometime and leveled mine up to 80. I can’t help but notice and a bit annoyed by the fact that the F1, F3, and toggle skills are seriously redundant. The pet is a serious pain to use effectively as it is but I especially hate how it is made so it wastes not 1 not 2 but 3 button spots for extremely redundant skills that can all be replaced by just 1 toggle. (I personally despise the pet and wish that the Devs would just scrap this aching headache into the depths of hell in favor of a different profession mechanic but I highly doubt they will ever redesign a game mechanic just for one single profession at this point in time so I’ll just have to work with what I’ve got)
Before I propose my ideas on how to fix the problem, allow me to expand on how exactly the F1, F3, and toggle are redundant. The problem all revolves around the toggle. It can’t be hotkey’d so you have to click it with your mouse in order to use it. So if your toggled as aggressive mode then F1 is completely useless since your pet will now attack anything that you’re attacking or is attacking you. If the toggle is set to passive though, then F3 is useless since… well… your pet isn’t going anywhere when you’re in passive. That’s a no-brainer. The whole design is just so repetitive, useless, and just plain awful.
Here’s my idea on how to improve it. F1, F3, and the toggle should all be fused into a single toggle that is hotkey’d onto F1. Toggle to aggressive to make your pet attack as you attack or attack when you’re being attacked. Toggle to passive if you want you’re pet to return to you if they are far away or simply to make them avoid combat and stay close. The funny thing is that you don’t need any special programming to make this happen. You just need to throw F1 and F3 into the furnace and make the toggle the new F1. I mean… the toggle already does everything I explained already. The problem is that F1 and F3 buttons are occupied by useless pieces of trash. I really believe a single toggle on F1 is all you need to handle these functions and I don’t see how it could not.
Now think for a second! If F1 and F3 is replaced by a toggle on F1, then that leaves the F3 button free. This would open up a button that may give you better control over your pet which would potentially make the pet less of a headache to use. And maybe, if we’re lucky, we can have a second pet skill at our disposal which would be HUGE. I’m okay with a new command button to better control my pet but if we really get a second pet skill then that would really redeem the pet just a bit for me.
Feel free to express any ideas or criticisms.
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I’ve seen a couple of non-mm necromancer builds where the creator uses a flesh golem simply because transformation skills sucks. And guess what? I agree with them, transformation skills do suck.
Please! DON’T remove Spectator Mode. There’s got to be a better way. It really looks as if every solution has its cons. Is there really no perfect solution other than removing Spectator? It just seems like a terrible shame in my opinion. Well… at least this is an issue that’s actually being addressed instead of simply being ignored. cough cough horrible AIs and the poor rangers that are stuck with said horrible AI cough cough
Have you guys ever seen Minion master run without a flesh golem. The flest golem is definitely the strongest minion MM Necros will have (as long as it is working properly). A good number of non-minion master also go flesh golem simply because transformation skills sucks!
Also, the swimming and no diving thing doesn’t work. I do that plenty of times and my golem drowns regardless.
So they are meant to be underwater… Ugh…. then I hope they fix those animation soon.
I can think of two easy solutions:
1) redesign the appearance of the flesh golem to that of a more humanoid structure and replace it’s animations with that of one of the humanoid races. I heard that Mass Effect did something similar in reusing animations for the Krogans in order to safe time and effort.
2) do what they did with the Moa morph skill that mesmers have. Flesh golem changes into something else when entering the water. Like an undead shark, fish, whatever… that the game already have animations for such as the risen shark animations.
Compared to most skills in game, the flesh golem has a rather long CD even with reduced CD trait (yes I believe 48-60 secs is long and No I don’t want to argue about it). Oh and I don’t like underwater combat one bit. I have another reason for wanting my golem to be underwater actually. So it won’t die when I place a toe in a river just so I can get that one POI or event or etc…
Anyone have any idea why the Flesh Golem isn’t underwater yet? I love the idea of surrounding myself in a mini-army but the experience is completely ruined when it’s just an absolute chore to deal with the flesh golem in a pve map. What really grinds my gears is that the thief’s “thief’s guild” elite was made to be usable underwater when it wasn’t at launch. This is so infuriating! They made thief’s guild underwater but not flesh golem! That is just completely inexcusably stupid!
Not too long ago, anyone can die at any given moment. Diseases, hunger, and murder was a way worse problem then than it is now. Life expectancy is incredibly low of course. That didn’t exactly prevent them from being bigots, racists, sexists, and especially homophobes though.
Saying that there are better things to worry about than same-sex laws in Tyria just sounds stupid to me. Here on Earth, we face countless more terrifying problems such as famine, disease, war, poverty, terrorism, global warming, etc… yet somehow people are more concerned about freaking Justin Bieber and One Direction ruining the music industry.
I just really don’t want to see Spectator mode being removed. It’s causing a lot of problems and definitely needs to be overhauled so it can never be exploited in anyway whatsoever. But please don’t remove Spectator, there’s got to be a better option.
what about this?
1) remove option to choose teams
2) add a player queue
3) remove ability to see the score
The solution is simple. It’s not to take out spectate mode, it’s to remove the ability to choose your team in the first place. If you choose spectate you cannot join until the next game. If you choose to play, you are placed in a random team.
I totally agree with you. It’s not Spectator that needs to be removed, it’s the option to choose your team. Might I add a queue line where players have to line up in order to get into the game instead of entering with a click of a button. It would stop players who are still trying to exploit the system. E.g. 5vs5 match where red is winning but someone on red left. Instead of some exploiters entering because he clicked join first, the player first in line will be entered.
I’ve noticed this problem too and from the moment I learned of spectator mode I’ve always wondered about simply joining the fad. But I decided not to cause that would make me a part of the problem. I even encounter players gloating about it seemingly encouraging the behavior. One even told me that it’s better to win than carry the losers. The problem is that if they didn’t indulge themselves is such an attitude then this problem wouldn’t even exist. The problem these exploiters are having are completely self-made. I don’t know how to fix these problems but I do want it fixed.
However, I really don’t want to see spectator mode removed. Despite all the players abusing the system I see good in it and find it very enjoyable. I sometimes use it to see how others play but I mostly use it when playing with friends. It allows me to stay in the same server as they are while not being a burden to a team when I go afk.
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The necromancer’s f2-f4 are free buttons for minion control. One way of fixing the frozen minion problem is to make them disappear when out of combat and reappear once entered.
Also…. one thing that makes me believe some seriously stupid people are working for Arenanet is the fact that thief’s guild can now be used underwater while our flesh golems still die with a drop of water.
Funnily enough, anet has no problem with sticking “and they’re misogynists” onto villains just because it makes them more “evil” and villainous—not one but two enemy factions have something against women: The Flame Legion and the Sons of Svanir.
Really? I never noticed it until now. Those two factions do seem to be the most stupid in my opinion. Maybe it’s Anet’s way of saying only idiots don’t believe in equal rights XD
I don’t know about humans… But there is a particular female Asura in Rata Sum with a female significant other. I have a feeling most or all races are fine with anything. Mainly because I don’t think anet would want to put those politics into the game.
Nice to know that the races of Tyria have sorted out most of those ignorant racists and homophobes. But racism and homophobia could make some rather interesting conflicts and motives in future stories and contents. Many of our most successful TV shows, games, stories, and all sorts of media tends to reflect the real world. Anet can make some seriously compelling, albeit controversial, stories and characters if they play their hands right. I believe this is why Scarlet is so hated and a failure as a villain. Her introduction is a surprise no one can ever predict. Her background and personality is bland and uninteresting. Worst of all, no one can ever relate to her. It’s ok if she was a dragon where she is programmed for destruction no matter what. But she’s suppose to be a “intelligent” character with actions of her own accord. This really demands that she has to have more depth and background to her character than “I’m crazy and evil and I’m going to do bad things”.
I find that a lot of people see Marjory and Kasmeer in good favor. I always feel like those two characters outshine both Rox and Braham even though they were introduced into the story at a later time. The writers of those characters gave them distinguishable characteristics and more details about them other than “we’re the hero and we’re going to save everyone”
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After many suggestive conversations between Marjory and Kasmeer and the undeniable kiss during Scarlet’s death instance. We all know they are a couple. But is it legal? Are the Krytans ok with same-sex marriage or not? It be ashame if the Krytan government starts interfering with Marjory and Kasmeer’s relationship but it would give rise to a lot of interesting conflicts between the two.
On a side note: what about the other races? (except sylvari cause their opinions about the matter is obvious) What are the other races’ laws and opinions of same sex relationships.
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Not sure if that was the best way of handling it prehap creating a thread that was for fostering discuss, not arguments would have been a start. Or you could have broke it down profession by profession and split the viewing a bit, nothing seems to stop anyone from doing so as we have seen from these new Sub-forum. Skritt they don’t even seem to merge as often as they once did.
There are so many discussions that break into arguments that I couldn’t count. In any case, it doesn’t matter how friendly you try to be there will always be that one person that makes everything a heated argument. And it’s not just gw2 or games in general, it’s everything. As long as it exists, there will be arguments about it.
This is my thought process behind making most of my threads now. I know it’s not exactly mature or well-thought out but it was better than my past methods, where everything I say is quickly dismissed as uninteresting and unimportant.
Why would any developer respond to this post when someone states their bias right at the top? Furthermore, what makes anyone think they are trying to achieve balance with they have such an obvious bias? I guess I’m wondering why anyone would make a thread like this because it isn’t going to elicit a response from developers.
Sorry if I offend you in anyway but I deliberately chose such a vulgar title in order to gain attention quick. And it worked on some small level I guess. Vast majority of people would just skip over anything that doesn’t catch their eye. The easiest way to grab the majority of people’s eye is with a vulgar, loud, and biased statement as you call it. Sure maybe the developers won’t take me seriously, but if the majority of players ignore me than the developers would ignore me as well.
I’m not sure how they can implement ways to control the Mesmer illusions since there is absolutely no space left on the Mesmer skill bar to fit in some AI-control skills. The only way to improve the control is the improve the AI itself rather than the user interface and who knows how long and how hard it will be. One suggestion I would make is to cut out line of sight as a requirement for certain illusion skills. As long as you have your target targeted and you are in range, you will be able to use you illusion without being obstructed. Note that it’s only for certain skills. The scepter auto-attack still requires that projectile to land in order for the clone to be summoned.
The necromancer and ranger has room in their user interface for extra AI-control options. The necromancer is obvious since it’s F2-F4 are empty. The ranger’s F1 is the equivalent of the “engage combat” toggle and the F3 is the equivalent of the “avoid combat” toggle as far as I’m concerned. So why not just put them all into F1 as a single toggle skill. that will leave F3 open for a new and improved AI-control option or even a secondary pet skill.
If Arenanet actually follows the path I imagined (though highly unlikely), I wish that if we set our pets/minions/illusions/etc… to “defensive mode” then they would evade as we evade. This allows us another option to control our pet while giving the professions an emergency button in case their AI friend does something stupid.
I’m no programmer so I have no idea how hard it is to implement this kind of stuff. But I’ll assume my suggestions are way easier than to creating a new, smart, and reliable AI that can obey their masters like they’re reading minds.
As a fellow ranger, I completely understand your pain, sorrow and frustration with how the pet and its lackluster AI holds back this class.
But hey, let’s at least look on the bright side. If AI development for such a major company progresses so slowly, then the human race won’t have to worry about anything like an “Sentient/Sapient AI Terminator Revolt” for another 1500 years.
This is just for fun. I read that nothing that’s ever programmed is truly random. Everything coded in any electronic device follows a specific pattern, a specific formula, a specific equation, etc… Free will (at least human free will anyways) is nothing like that. It’s irrational, chaotic, unpredictable, random, and well FREE! I don’t think any program can ever imitate true randomness and unpredictability since everything is using some sort of script. It’s like the results are built in to be rather then letting fate decide. So I don’t think a robot uprising will ever come to be unless we specifically program robots to uprise.
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anyone who chose to play a lazy class that relies on computer doing the job for you, gotta deal with consequences
if it was up to me i would make them more of utility thing than main dmg source (like it is in many cases atm)
Such ignorance. Do you even play the ranger? Because if you do you would realize that both the pet and the ranger itself has horrible survivability. Damage obvious doesn’t come easy if we need to dodge and run all the time while warriors and guardians just stands there soaking everything up and still keep on attacking.
I won’t say I’m an expert, but I do play all 8 professions. I tend not to judge any profession till I’ve tried them out. So what about you? Have you ever played a ranger?
Perhaps they can make it so that your clones, minions, pet, etc… evade as you evade. Or at least give you a trait that does that.
I noticed that the necromancer f2-f4 is not there and I would suggest that those buttons would be perfect for minion control. The f2-f4 should be something along the lines of a toggle that determines how the AI behaves. F2 can determine aggressiveness and F3 will determine formation. F2: toggle 1 would make your minions stubbornly pursue your target while toggle 2 makes them stick close and surround the necromancer. F3: toggle 1 would make the minions stick close together like a “mini-zerg” while toggle 2 would make them disperse and cover a wider area. I’m not sure what to do with the F4 though.
I’ve also noticed that the ranger F3 and the combat toggle can be fused into one single toggle. Just put them both in the F3 key; toggle 1 would make your pet stubbornly pursue your target and toggle 2 will make your pet stick very close to you and avoid combat if at all possible. I imagine the F3 and combat toggle could also fuse with the F1 skill since my pet naturally attack whatever I’m attacking. If they would just fuse the f1, f3, and combat toggle it would free up a space for a second pet skill. That would redeem the pet for me just a bit, but only a little bit.
Yes, I forgot to mention about mesmers. The clones and pantasms are only good against single targets. But I would argue that mesmers have it way easier off. Most of their illusions are meant to be sacrificed for better survivability or damage. Illusions dying are very common and isn’t really much of an inconvenience unless it’s a large scale battle. If your build don’t focus on illusions then they still serve as a nice decoy that can be easily replaced in 5-10 seconds. Mesmers have it easy since summoning illusions is second nature to them.
Rangers, turret engineers, and MM necromancers have it way worse than the mesmer since they don’t have that ability to quickly replace any fallen minions. If their pets die, they’re pretty much dead.
I absolutely hate pets and AIs in this game. They’re all so slow, predictable, and STUPID from what I’ve experienced. They are somewhat helpful in pve, somewhat. But in any pvp areas, they are almost if not completely unreliable… NPCs being made of glass and having a tendency to walk straight into obvious certain death is annoying but at least its not severely handicapping a players potential. And then there’s the ranger… who’s gameplay mechanic relies extremely heavily on their pets. Pve is manageable, but anywhere else is complete hell. I don’t play dungeons very often, but I bet any AI-controlled companions from any profession will die just as easily as that 1 or 2 NPC that dived head first into death.
Let me expand! In pvp, the pets simply react way too slow to keep up with their targets in damage, range, mobility, and pretty much everything imaginable. Add in the fact that their F2 ability has a long cast time and frequently fails, lack of reliable control over pets, and their complete ignorance of giant red circles of death. We constantly see players walking past, jumping over, gently petting it on the head, and using it to skip rope.
Necromancers and Engineers suffer from bad AIs as well. Turret builds are mostly laughed at since utilizing them requires the target to have the same mindset of another AI. No problem in pve, but everywhere else… yeah… Minion master builds work but only because their minions just swarm their targets. Good luck winning as a minion master if you’re target specializes in aoe btw.
I don’t wvw much, but its quite obvious that everyone runs a mobility strong or support strong build. A fast evasive/stealthy killer if the player roams alone. But still, I will add in the fact that sacrificing so much utility slots for minion rather than stun breaks will guarantee instant death in wvw. Not that anyone would run a minion heavy build in wvw anyways.
I’ll be honest here. If arenanet decided to scrap these minions, pets, and etc… I would be OVERJOYED. As I see it, the rangers pet is more of a nuisance than any help (nerfing the ranger itself because they have a companion). Necromancers and engineers have way better builds than any of the MM and turrets build. But the biggest victims here are the rangers, I really wish arenanet would fix the pet or just completely scrap the whole mechanic because it’s just awful. Perhaps instead of using pets, rangers can learn their F1-F4 skills from observing nature and animals so they act more like utility skills. Or maybe make it so the pet isn’t something that follows you but a “summoned ally” that comes out, does its job, and disappears. But that’s just wishful thinking on my part. But I am pretty sure anything will be better than those pets.
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We all know that the current meta are condition builds. But have we ever wondered why? I believe the obvious answer is simply because conditions have way more utility and versatility than direct damage. Just take a look at the condition descriptions: poison-heals are 33% weaker, torment-deals more damage when target is moving, confusion-deals damage when target uses a skill, etc… Not to mention the skills that apply conditions seem to be way more inventive than direct damage skills. e.g. traps, on critical, weapon swap, etc… Precision is also a bigger support stat for conditions than power simply because there are countless sigils and traits that apply conditions on critical.
If power builds are to be revived than simply buffing the damage or increasing the defense won’t work. Condition builds would be just as likely to gain from the buffs as the power builds. And I do not want to see condition builds being nerfed because nerfs are never a fun thing to see and it takes away from the gameplay rather than add to it. I suggest that Power builds should somehow gain some more utility and versatility to their skills to compete with condition builds. Traits that improves your combat abilities based on numbers of conditions/boons on you/target seems like a good idea. New sigils and runes that provides more utility to power builds would be nice to see since all the more popular runes and sigils seem to have more synergy with condition builds.
Note that I am not hoping condition builds to be nerfed. I just want to see a bit more balance between power and condition builds. After all, everyone is going to be tired of seeing their UI completely swarmed with condition icons and visual effects right?
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In my opinion, swords are meant to be a evasive mobility weapon. Blocking is more of a guardian and warrior thing. Thieves are meant to be dexterous and agile, blocking just lacks acrobatic finesse.
Offhand:
4 skill
1)Shadow hunter (3 init) – throws your sword to your target (900 range) and transfer 1 condition to the target if you have one (projectile finisher)
2)Shadow stalker (2 init) – (10 second window of opportunity to activate if Hunter is successful) teleport to your target and steal 1 boon (1200 range)
5 skill
Afterimage (4 init) – Functions like a regular dodge but you are invisible for the duration of the dodge. Any projectiles you evaded are reflected. Leaves a still-image of yourself behind that lasts for 2-3 seconds (leap finisher)
Dual skills:
s/s
Hurricane (3 init per spin/second) – Spin around with your two swords (130 radius). Each spin lasts for 1 second and you can hold down your #3 skill to continue spinning. Has a 1/4 second evade, that doubles as a projectile reflect. (whirl finisher)
d/s (blast finisher for both options)
1) Shadowmine (4 init) – Plunge a sword into the ground that you can return (lasts for 5 seconds) explodes and applies “insert condition of choice” to targets (100 radius)
2) Shadowbomber (3 init) – teleport to sword (1200 range) and activate the explosion
p/s (20% projectile finisher)
Vigil (4 init per use) – leaves a shadowy sword at you’re location (lasts for 5 seconds) that sends an image of yourself in the sky that hails down bullets and deal “insert condition of choice” (max 4 swords on the field)
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From what I’ve seen, I still can’t tell. Never have I been so confused about what’s right and wrong. I can tell that thief is meant to be a fast moving killing machine with the disadvantage being incredibly fragile. But thanks to all the stealth, evasion, and mobility they have at their disposal, their lack of defense is hardly a disadvantage.
From what I’ve experienced as a thief, tanky builds do not work. I really can’t tell if a full tanky thief actually survives any longer than a full glass-cannon. There’s also the problem of how thief’s have one specific combo most of the time and that’s all they can do. However, these combos do work and they work well. Especially the stealth ones since being able to hide and bide your time allows for some unpredictability even if you are only spamming 1-2 buttons repeatedly.
So far I’m a bit siding with the people calling op since a skilled player with a thief probably can never be killed and a noob with a thief can still hold his own simply by copying the build and memorizing the combo of a thief build video on Youtube.
However, the arguments about copying and pasting other build can be said about all professions. So why do I think this is a worst case for thieves? Well… the reason is probably stealth, even if the thief doesn’t know how to use the build he can still hold his own by stealthing up and biding his time. With the exception of p/p, s/p, and sb (which are rare sights to see as the main weapon btw), all weapons sets have access to stealth. Other professions can’t do this, if they don’t know how to use their build than their dead. No shortcuts and no way to be useful until you actually understands the build you’re using. Plus most thief builds I’ve seen hit quite hard, making a nooby thief still a threat even if he is hiding in stealth 90% of the time and sneaking a hit whenever he feels like it.
I’m speaking from what I’ve seen when I’m playing as a thief, most of the time I travel in groups and the fights I have with thieves tend to end with them disappearing into thin air or me getting killed when a thief spots me with below 50% health. I’ve never fought a thief 1v1 long enough to tell how “op” they are. So far, I’m taking what I’m hearing. Despite seeing more supporters for the thief, I really believe the counterargument carries more detail in info. So that’s where I’m thinking towards as of now.
(edited by Novomundum.8325)
No. Stealth Thieves don’t have any sort of damage mitigation. EVERY other class has them, be it protection (guardian, elementalist), high regeneration(warrior, ranger, guardian, elementalist), high HP pool(warrior, necro), stability(warrior, guardian), condi cleanses(elementalist, warrior, guardian), invulnerabilities(warrior, guardian, elementalist, mesmer), NPCs(mesmer, ranger, necro). Only thing they get is a Blind Field, which is useless against ranged attackers and forces you to use x/P, and a blink (shadowstep). D/D will be nerfed into oblivion with your suggestion.
I would like to see how other classes perform if they had to wait 5 seconds before using each one of those defensive skills I mentioned.
I think stealth is fine as it is: 4s revealed is really balanced.
I understand what you trying to say. Unable to shake off your attacker will be a great undoing of a thief. But the window of opportunity for them to have a lock on you is really slim if you play properly and because only one player can see you (assuming you don’t go sneak attacking everyone all at once)
e.g. When you sneak attack, your target receives 4 secs reveal buff. You do your full combo and at least 3 secs would have ticked off their boon and then you stealth again. This leave them with only a 1 sec window of opportunity to maintain a lock on you. Not to mention they can only keep their revealed buff if they are attacking you when you’re stealth’d (no… attacking something else in stealth won’t give them the buff to see you, But it does allow them to see whatever their hitting)
This also forces you to be more critical about where you stand, stand in the wrong spot and you’ll find yourself being focused down.
P.S. you can spam stealth, so it wouldn’t be as punishing if you messed up since you can still use your stealth attack and stealth influenced traits.
(edited by Novomundum.8325)
nope, rangers are getting a 4s reveal every 32-40s, adapt or go home
I don’t understand what you dislike about my suggestion? Can you explain why it’s bad? I made this suggestion as a way to express my ideas about how to counter certain issues and let others take my ideas and expand upon.
If the changes I explained actually did somehow picked up by anet, then 1v1 against thieves would make it harder for them to run away to reset the fight at a more opportune time while keeping stealth as a reliable defense against zergs. If you disagree please expand your thoughts.
I’ve seen a couple of suggestions for how stealth could be changed for the better and I can’t help but want to share my own ideas. I would enjoy to hear any criticism, it helps improve on ideas afterall.
Revealed will no longer be a debuff but a buff that ties the attacker to the attackee. This buff allows the target to see his attacker (but not anyone else who is in stealth)
How it works to the target:
Revealed buff 4 secs when the attacker attacks from stealth. The buff will also be applied to the target if he successfully attacks someone in stealth. Attacks that is classified as aoes will only stack 0.5 secs and single target/melee attacks stack 1 sec. The duration of this buff caps at 5 secs.
This will provide opportunity for the target to keep a lock on the thief. But if he’s bad or the thief got some skills, the thief can evade or blind properly to get the target off his back.
How it works to the attacker:
There is nothing stopping them from stealthing now. Although the target may be able to see you, any benefits you gain from stealth would still apply except for being invisible.
This forces the thief to play smart and focus on one target only or everyone in the immediate area would see you. This also forces thieves to take out either the glass-cannon first or the stupidest player in the enemy ranks.
(edited by Novomundum.8325)
hmmm… using their egos to beat them? How? I guess I can let myself get pretty low and make them think they have the upperhand for a split second, but I am at no where near that level of skill where I can use myself as bait. Guess I need more practice
I see. So the dp builds is op while everything else is fine. I can’t believe some people are condemning an entire profession based on 1 builds though. seems a bit close minded. But now, what’s the deal with dp? is there really absolutely no way to solve their nigh immortality?
Hmmm… so basically thieves are hated because of ignorant fools who refuses to open their mind and play the profession to see it for what it truly is?
I play gw2 pretty oblivious most of the time and simply explore and observe around most of the time. I can’t help but hear some hate about thieves. So are thieves really op? Please tell me your thoughts about why the thief is op or not. And please provide some reasoning.
From what I’ve experienced, a lot of thieves depend heavily on stealth. I’ve seen some thieves moving away from this trend recently with evasion builds but I only see these build users once every 2 weeks or so. I play a thief myself but don’t play enough to understand it fully. I can tell that it is incredibly hard to play without stealth.
Stealth seems to be the base of all the hate for thieves. Seeing as how it is both a great offensive and defensive skill for thieves. Stealth makes thieves almost unkillable if they choose to focus on defense and outright scary when they choose to unleash that burst. What are your thoughts?
(edited by Novomundum.8325)