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I’d 100% play a game with low ttk that requires skill, positioning, cooldown management etc. to make you sustainable, where you can kill someone in few seconds, and at the same time be killed in one second if you don’t pay attention, have no knowledge on how to play and how to build your profession for pvp, than play a game where all you do is a stalemate between you and your enemies / your team and your enemy team.
Maybe it’s just me, but I see pvp as something that gives you prestige and fun for the players you kill, not for those you are in a decade long stalemate with.
Well, I had a similar experience last season when I got at around 50% win rate into a losing streak, and after some effort put into it and got a bit better I slowly started taking wins back and surpassing 50% win rate, but i had to play a lot and improve.
So my take on this is there is system is somehow made that if you stagnate you get into losing streaks (either intentionally put in with weaker team mates by the system, or just, how someone above mentioned, players with better rating are using alts to progress and since they have a better win rate then you they get better rated players) and have to prove you had improved to get back to your original starting point or upper.
One other thing that can make huge differences in rating is if you win/lose while in decay state. just throwing this out here, but this too could have affected your rating if you know you had decay at some point and lost.
But anyway – I made a new video for you guys, with some of the rest footage I had:
You can watch it in slow motion, there’s some circular CnDs in there as well. You don’t have to though; I officially don’t care.And I do hope you also know why I’m avoiding the forums.
“You can’t turn, why do you even try? And all of us miss(ed) but it’s (was) no bug.”
You guys, eh?!
Unrelated to the tread, but I enjoyed the footage&music. Thumbs-up
I’m not sure what are you talking about, but I’m pretty sure I’ve seen few days ago on Sindrener’s live stream at least 2 consecutive matches lost on his side against teams without thieves. And he is sort of the best thief in this game’s sPvP mode. (also he was playing in plat on his alt) On the same note, he also dies from time to time, there’s no such thing as thief god mode.
I’m can’t say anything from my experience since I’m not in plat, but I’m pretty sure what you were saying it’s an exaggeration.
Well of course in reality it’s not a absolute, and my use of a absolute in the previous post was just rhetoric for impact.
You’re still heavily disadvantaged though by not having a thief vs a team with one.
This does depend on map though, thieves are godly when it comes to denying secondary objectives like Nifhel beasts, and temple buffs, but not all maps have massive impact secondary objectives.You can counter a thief’s decap game by just permabunking home. However doing so means that your team has to be able to win teamfights while outnumbered, which is a big if and doesn’t work if the team’s are of equal skill.
It’s not that there aren’t solutions to dealing with thieves, it’s that those solutions all have large drawbacks such that’s it’s significantly better just to bring your own thief.
Agreed, and that’s why thieves are called “play makers”. They don’t shine in 1v1s and team fights but they can change the flow of a game if they do what they are good at while the enemy team isn’t able to shut them down with defensive tactics. But I’m of the same opinion: take this away from thief and they don’t have any real use in an sPvP team, besides playing for fun.
I feel like any good team pvp game should have classes like this which can make or break the game depending on how it’s played and how it’s countered by the enemy team.
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So isn’t the point of the thief squishyness exactly why it should be hard to lock down? I mean if they were easily locked down they would die instantly and be useless, in most fights… just saying…
Because at higher levels thieves never go down to non-thieves.
Right now not having a thief while the other team does is pretty much a auto-lose at least in platinum.
I’m not sure what are you talking about, but I’m pretty sure I’ve seen few days ago on Sindrener’s live stream at least 2 consecutive matches lost on his side against teams without thieves. And he is sort of the best thief in this game’s sPvP mode. (also he was playing in plat on his alt) On the same note, he also dies from time to time, there’s no such thing as thief god mode.
I’m can’t say anything from my experience since I’m not in plat, but I’m pretty sure what you were saying it’s an exaggeration.
Well, I guess OP didn’t make this thread to compare core builds with HoT builds. He was probably considering this buff for the current state of the game not the one that was like 2 years ago.
I’m not necessarily approving with him, but on the other hand I can’t approve with this “core” build mentality which is already obsolete and it won’t come back into trend anyways. You can argue that those sort of skills promotes bad gameplay, but as long as it’s not even the meta and taking into account the current state of the game… the “powercreep”… it’s just a tool to fight other lower skill powercreep… it won’t save you from people that know what they are doing. And it isn’t changing the way thief works too much either. It’s just a choice.
Anyways it’s also your choice to adapt to the current state of the game or continue to be nostalgic of the past.
No other profession complains about this utility, they have stability and CC which will counter this. They might also realize the transition from block to kick leaves the thief wide open.
And this fella is the winner. Anyone paying attention to frames can easily destroy the thief during the kick animation.
+1 Gold stars all around
I see very little incentive to use the kick in general. Only when it’s opportune.
12s cd stunbreak block with endurance refill on it is good enough for me.
You have to trait the end refill & CD reduction.
I have no issue with thieves have that low of a CD on a stun break due to them having no access to stability, protection, or sustain.
And most thieves will do this for CV as it is. DA offsets the need for WS, and HM isn’t really considered worthwhile by most people.
I disagree with the skill having the cooldown it does for a stunbreak + block in conjunction with UC. It pretty much makes a given daredevil immune to the CC most kits are capable of. Factor in Shadowstep and SoA and it pretty much just outright cannot be locked down.
So isn’t the point of the thief squishyness exactly why it should be hard to lock down? I mean if they were easily locked down they would die instantly and be useless, in most fights… just saying…
It will probably be rebranded as just trapper condi thief, instead of ghost thief…
Hi, I just wanna make this post to show how bad the Matchmaking in PvP and how big the gaps between players are right now. Some of you may remember this from my most recent stream but I just want to highlight this game right here, one of the prime example of why almost none of the players want to touch guild wars 2 PvP this season. ANet need to get a proper tutorial as well as give top tier players incentive to actually stream and teach the lesser skilled player to improve. Because at this rate, more and more players will leave.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/130583102
This is the clip of my 1v3. Where I straight up 1v3 a thief mes and warrior for a minute, downed 2 and killed one before I actually died. Meanwhile my team barely won two nodes in that amount of time, just to lose it the moment I died. Throughout? this whole game, I was permanently 1v2 and 1v3 while my team doing God knows what and I barely carried my team to win by 10 points. It is honestly baffling.
Below is the full clip of the game for you guys to judge. Please keep in mind my DH is not my main class, this was my first game on DH in like a week.
“Carry Isarel” http://www.twitch.tv/xkratosz/v/130583399?sr=a&t=0s
P.S: I could have live through that 1v3 there and maybe even come out alive, but because DH is not my main, so I didn’t do a good job of keeping CDs of f2 and f3. I could have won that 1v3 and come out on top. So it is technically my faults for not going 10000% to carry them. I was just too triggered at the time.
Well, one reason you didn’t harm the enemy team too much is that even if you were 1vX-ing them you were actually fighting on their node without decaping. The enemy team just managed to rotate better than your team, I guess… And they also probably had someone who was able to 1v3 your team mates in their team while you were 1v3-ing their team. Anyways the match wasn’t so dramatic it was just probably luck, or just a bit of better rotation awareness on your enemy side. As for the top stats you have, what can i say, there are better classes to farm top stats with at low level gameplay, then others. Try getting all those top stats on something like thief or other profession builds that doesn’t shine at almost every combat and sustain aspect of the game.
Anyways, I noticed something strange happening in your second video (the full match) at around 10:06, you are sitting on their node and it’s not decaping… It might be a glitch, but just noticed that.
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another thing that you can do, is attack in his black powder if you can spot it… and if you think you will be able to survive… but a fight against them is usually pretty one sided if you are not on a profession with good resistance and condi clear.
Heh, not the format I’ve expected, but it does it’s job, thank!
Is there a way or a place in-game or on the internet where you can view the season 5 leaderboards from both regions?
Thanks. So I guess if you can keep the game going for 2 minutes after someone dcs you’re ok.
Do you know exactly what is the timer for dc to make it a no-rating-loss game for the team with the dc?
this is probably not pvp relevant but https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Sigil_of_Celerity this sigil seems useless. Anyone know any game mode of real situation where you would benefit using this thing?
just to leave my game experience here too, I think the most popular professions I always see during a match (I mean since the beginning of the season in every match I’ve played these professions were taking part of) are Guardian and Necro. I mean at least one in my or the enemy team, but I believe they went up to 5 few times. Can’t remember if I got to play in a match with 6 each of those stacked, but 5 I’m sure it happened few times.
I sort of remember there was something wrong with creating the traditional mmo system where you can right click and invite to a duel anyone in most areas of the world, but I can’t remember the reason they didn’t implement this (along with an ignore or prevent duel invites option in the menu). Can anyone refresh my mind?
PvE players din’t want this in their zones. Can’t blame them really. Even if you block people that harass you about it or turn off duel invites, it can get annoying for some people when you have people all over the place dueling each other when they just want to enjoy the PvE scene. However, I see no reason why this system couldn’t be allowed strictly in HotM.
I see. And there could also be specific places or gladiator arenas where players could duel even in the open world. If they restrict this to only some spots where even the pve players can come and admire other gladiators face off one another I think it would be a win-win.
Well, I actually have the 3rd chapter of the living world restarted since I wanted to complete some achievements, so yeah, you might be right that it’s something that has to do with the chapter. I haven’t got to study this case in depth myself, but I guess i could try to see if she comes up again. anyways, I feel like this would be a good thing to flavor the game, so I wouldn’t report it as a bug since it seems like fun to have mini story related event’s like this even in the pvp area. I guess I’ll come back if I find out more about it.
I sort of remember there was something wrong with creating the traditional mmo system where you can right click and invite to a duel anyone in most areas of the world, but I can’t remember the reason they didn’t implement this (along with an ignore or prevent duel invites option in the menu). Can anyone refresh my mind?
So here’s the thing.
I went to the Fallen Halls of Glory in the sPvP lobby, this is the place where you can fight some of the class npc to get the hang on how other classes might work if you go against then in a match. So I killed around some just for fun, but at some point this happens: i see Aurene’s image briefly appearing over the Guardian’s npc body, some guy just passed through there too, so i didn’t put too much thought into it at first i thought it was one of the new game’s gimmick’s and the guy just left some image behind. But then it happened again while I was fighting the Elementalist npc and this time I think it hit me and insta-downed me.
Anyone know more about this?
Dash might get you stuck in the terrain without jump. So this is one useful thing about it. Btw, can you translate what do you mean by “evasion frame” so i can get my terms right. Does it last longer?
So there’s that trap that most dh use, I think the elite one “Dragon’s Maw” that knocks you down when you want to escape from it…
My question would be if there is an issue with jump + dash when you want to escape out of it, since for me it usually doesn’t work and I get knocked down when attempting to escape via that combo trick? Is it better for some reason to use normal dash rather then the jump + dash version? (keep in mind that my keyboard is not mechanical so this might be cause by pure lack of coordination between the 2 keys, I’m asking only cause it happens to me really often while caught in that trap – not sure if every time, though)
Also if you have any other tips on when it’s better to use one, rather then the other I’d appreciate it if you can share your thoughts.
If you shadow return while dodging, you’ll activate the marks/traps and make them miss.
Nice tip, thanks.
Does anyone have any tips on how to deal with the tone of condi dmg if people set marks and traps on your shadowstep return point? I mean there’s a lot of trap guys (burning guards and trapper druids) and condi minion necros in my games and my struggle against those kittened up teams seems futile most of the time. Sooo, any tips? (besides the 30s signet, which I guess it’s not bad, but not a solution either)
I wouldn’t say if they were alone, but I usually get combos of necros and trapper guards, and from time to time a condi trapper druid (wow, surprise attack :P)… actually all my day was like this. Marks alone wouldn’t kill me, but you know when you need to use the shadowstep means you’re pretty forced to do it like there’s no other choice, so additional condi after you cleared is pretty sure to kill you without team support. So what to do…
I know I know I should have been a poet. Actually I thought my post was pretty poetic for my debut.
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That’s why you play a dps build and stomp harder. Bunker tempests carry higher tiers; dps carries lower tiers.
I actually play thief… I don’t believe there is any bunker build for it lol… and they know the trick, setting up marks and traps on my shadowstep return… the amount of condi in my matches today was over 9000.
Take a guess – this is the new bronze recommended trend. it’s even better when you see your team mates dying from the same source too. They say if you’re good enough you can carry out of bronze, but it’s a trap… everywhere is a trap that knocks your rating or your body down or the end of your dodge, then you burn and bleed and agonize in torment. In all of the confusion you take some poison to just end it even faster.
I wish I wasn’t caught in this trap…
Well, you shouldn’t be fixated on a single weapon set for all the content. Some work better in different situations. d/p & sb are good for sPvP and WvW most of the time. But usually if you don’t want to break bar in a group with other people on a boss you’ll get a lot more utility for cleaving and dmg, evades and positioning with staff, for example in pve. Sb is most of the time useless in pve if you don’t use it for ground covering to get places faster.
So I’ve heard people using those 2 terms and while carrying your team is pretty self explanatory, what the heck means to hard carry? Or is the term “hard” used only for getting more drama?
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I actually didn’t see you ever switching to a second weapon set, and to harass the DH and make her leave the traps area and reduce her healing you could have used the poison field from SB, while evading with 3 if she was switching to longbow on you.
I’m not sure if the DH was actually bating you on her traps or she was just chilling knowing she’s pretty safe with the over-inflated trap build. I mean the play wasn’t at that level on her side to think she was actually thinking of baiting actions out of other players. So you kind of suicide on a counter build.
That being said I sort of liked the passing of your game and if you follow the tips the people above told you about you might do better next encounters. On the same note there are(or were, not sure after the recent changes if that is still a thing) a sort of trapper druids who can mess with d/p thief sort of the same way it didn’t matter how skilled/fast they were.
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I’m not sure why I always felt like necro (at least the core one since I didn’t try reaper myself yet) had something what I’d call a more of a lazy play style, I guess I’m feeling this way since to me it feels more like a rotational, slower passed combat, with sort of a limited array of things you can do at a time. It’s powerful if played right, but the way it plays seems more like on the strategical side (like you bait your opponent, control his movement, kite around, get behind your minions, while loading them with condis etc.) then on the active performance side (with fast passed decision and movement). Reaper seems more on the active, but it still doesn’t feel as engaging as other classes… Not that I don’t like that sort of play style once in a while, especially if I feel like taking a break from thief and going on the totally opposite.
Don’t mind my probably incomplete description on necro play style I’m sure they have their secrets I have yet to discover and probably my view over them is a bit narrow. All in due time…
And now to go back on track… about the “low ttk” I mentioned above. I surely know you can extend the time to kill in endless fights, I’ve seen those kinds of 1v1s where no one dies for a long time if ever… but what i’ve been comparing it to were some of the previous games I played they had by default a high enough hp pool & inherent defenses that if you were to spec top dps on your class you would still need some amount of time to kill someone with the same gear level as you but also glass without them doing anything. I mean it was something on the order on under 10 seconds, but compared to GW2 where afk glass get’s down in less then a second… And to that longer ttk add specialized healers and tanks (as there is in the holy trinity games) and you get people that don’t go down even if you pit 5 people against them. And also the mentality that healers need to be privileged and unable to be killed by another dps if they both try hard, because they usually are the first targets in the match -. this is one step that invites imbalance in that type of games. I won’t go on any longer, I guess you got the point.
In GW2 your survival is very dependent on your performance, foresight, and knowledge of the game and your opponent. That’s why I like it cause you can’t afford to go to sleep if you don’t want to get downed in a flash. And this is also what the passives mess up in the game, but whatever. I hope I answered your question about my perspective on ttk.
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Actually I saw some S/D (probably combined with D/P) and some Staff/Sb plays that were pretty good in both WvW and PvP. Also some variations on P/P with another set pretty viable and did their job if used the right way. So it’s not only D/P and D/D condi. most of the sets are pretty much used.
I saw someone with only D mainhand once.
One day you might get the point, don’t use my name in any of your posts until then, ok?
I haven’t I swear… just thought someone’s wording was amusing. Forgive me for intruding.
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I think the fundamental difference in opinion comes from the notion that you believe the other specs are well-built. I don’t. I quite honestly believe the integrity of the game hinges on nerfing that power creep, including Daredevil.
Look to pre-HoT build viability in WvW; pretty much anything could be run on a thief with at worst moderate success. Even if the class demanded more skill than others to get that success with, that’s totally fine for what it was in general capable of. Aside from massive condi bomb dire builds, I never really felt pressed against anything, and if I played well – and at times I didn’t, for nobody’s perfect – I found myself being able to beat pretty much whatever I attacked, generally speaking. The lack of viability in sPvP stems from the amulet system and stat gains not jiving well with damage multipliers which are the primary way to achieve damage on the thief rather than anything inherent with class design, skill coefficients, etc.
The problem I see with Shadow Shot is that it’s one of those poorly-designed mechanics which prevents the rest of the class and its builds from getting much love. Because it’s such a problem child and is already overly-rewarding for its use, I see no reason to cut its damage and turn it into primarily a utility ability.
I actually read what you wrote in another thread about the boons in pvp and how to scale up and thought it was cool how you detailed the issue. I also think the power creep is a big issue, but in a way I’m not sure if that’s the whole issue.
I’m not sure, and maybe you can explain to me what is this this power creep to you and how it affects the game in your eyes. For me if I want to translate this I’d say power creep affected the game in 3 major ways:
1. Since it was added on the elite specs the core builds became more or less obsolete, hence the diversity of the builds that were performing well was reduced the profession becoming sort of dependent on the elite specs. So less diversity is bad, less options and forsaking old styles that people were used to before are inconvenient. This also made balance more tedious since people had new unexplored horizons in sight and balancing something unexplored and restricted is hard.
2. Lower ttk. Well that means they went so far that in some cases you can literally inst-kill someone before they can react or defend themselves with some burst specs. On the other hand you get lazy condi plays in which you can pretty much doom anyone who gets themselves hit only once or twice by your condi attack and with sufficent mobility and/or control you stay safely from harms way while the health of your opponent drops to 0. Not that I’m a fan of long ttk (which is why I like gw2 combat for it’s build and skill based ttk extendability instead of long boring fight or overpowered healing which invite stalemates), but literally not letting someone even get the chance to counter might arguably be too much. Saying arguably since when it comes to high level skill and play no one is going to die in an instant.
3. Well this one is pretty much the answer Anet had to the power creep, which is filling the gameplay with passives, over reliance on boons that reduce dmg income, etc.
This is my overview on power creep. But I’m sure I might have missed some things (if I didn’t, gz me) and want to hear your angle on this one.
And no I’ll right some little comments and my opinion on these 3 points I wrote above.
1st. Anet had to add something new to make people change the old stuff, for different reasons, one would be of course to be an incentive for the people to buy the expansion. But on the other hand something that gave the players new reasons to explore and try new styles, different things and to grow as an overall came with it too, so in this sense at least it provided something good too.
2nd. I already said this but i’m not a fan of boring stalemates. I believe pvp is about showing skill and dominance over other people by killing them as opposed to getting into stalemates and boring fights. GW2 does well on how better builds and player skill makes the difference between instantly dying and a good fight. unfortunatly the balance is not the best and you have classes that can play risk reward only on low skill level, and other situations like this.
3rd. Well I can’t find much positive on this one. It’s just a way to make some lazy plays a reason for countering power creep. Not that I haven’t seen this sort of metality (countering over-powered attacks with overpowered defenses, or in other games countering cc creep with escape mechanics creep), it’s bad for balance, and pretty shaky design, but it somehow stands.
And I wasn’t even in this thread or forum (for quite a while)..
Can you play anything else than D/P and D/D condi spam in pvp? Would it make sense to play anything else in wvw?
No? then why?
I could tell you, because I’m playing against D/P and I know how ridiculously strong they are. But not only SS is strong, also BP which with prepardness lets D/P thieves stealth for a very long time. And since they are free to chose any traits they want to because their set doesn’t need traits, they can have the best of all of it.
So when people are complaining about “perma stealth thieves” thieves as a whole get punished while D/P still has at least twice the amount of stealth duration at hand.And honestly: There’s one thing I really hate and that’s stupidity. You can’t claim that I was complaining without explaining why and I (and others) did that in detail, so
Sry, i don’t have Jana’s syndrome “If i can’t enjoy my build then whole class should be deleted and nobody else shall have fun” so it really bothers me when someone keeps bringing up d/p as some kind of source of evil.
Is kind of insulting because you obviously didn’t read any of what I wrote.
But instead did the very thing you accuse me of: don’t use any logic but just plainly defend your set.ETA: And if you report me for this again, I’ll report your previous post as it was completely unneccessary to call me out. I know how this works.
Actually I saw some S/D (probably combined with D/P) and some Staff/Sb plays that were pretty good in both WvW and PvP. Also some variations on P/P with another set pretty viable and did their job if used the right way. So it’s not only D/P and D/D condi. most of the sets are pretty much used.
Yeap, i’ll gonna hand them this one too, but i’ll add this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHdp7ooRsbo to get people exited about good play.
(cut for length and because triply-nested quotes is messy and I don’t feel like dealing with it)
You’re playing a relatively-power-geared build under the standard utility Daredevil D/P build with DPS-oriented gear (not DPH, mind you), and aren’t actually building for damage in your traits. If you use Shadow Shot primarily as a gap closer, anyways, I don’t understand why you’d be upset with its coefficient dropping. As it is, Shadow Shot is better than backstab when taking into account the stealth attack ICD, intiative costs of gaining stealth and the damage from backstab, casting times of these abilities, misc effects, and the overall damage dealt when factoring in post-Shadow Shot AA’s.
(Continued below)
Well I did say in another thread that toning down SS dmg wouldn’t be a tragedy in my opinion, so that’s not a problem for me. But since I know as an overall thief under performs and already know SS it’s not a deal breaker against most of the the well built other specs and professions I don’t see any reason for thief being nerfed any further down the line. That is unless they deal with the other op kittene power creep and passives in the game first, cause right now SS against most of what you can get out there it’s nowhere near being op. I don’t see any reason to nerf SS without getting buffed in other areas d/p and thief in general lacks compared to everything that’s out there which should be looked at anyways even without SS change. And your point of SS being better than backstab it’s not valid either, since backstab is one the worst thief abilities right now (even more after the 1s cd was added) so most abilities are better then BSs.
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Lol “Jana’s syndrome”…
…
Anyways, I still don’t get why you have to trash d/p in every single post you write. Is this the only way you have to vent off your frustration of the general thief situation in the game? Do you hold a grudge against someone who uses d/p and always beats you on your favorite set?
No, it’s just this is what is ultimately holding the profession as a whole back. You can’t balance thief when D/P is left as it is, and Shadow Shot provides a massively disproportionate amount of damage and utility for its initiative cost, allowing strictly worse players to achieve more than those excelling in other sets.
Actually your way of comparing things is wrong in the first place. D/p might be better at killing squishy things then the other sets cause it’s a burst set – but this applies only against other squishy classes. You go against a bunker class, or a condi sustain class, or outnumbered, or in pack with other players, you’ll find other sets preform better then d/p. And frankly it’s not the set’s fault it performs better against things that go down fast, the actual logic behind the mechanic of a burst class it’s this way so this is where a burst class performs better then other styles. And again SS does not do massive dmg in an every day’s encounter or encounters that actually matter. I mean it’s not like I haven’t fought against all sorts of other players and I know very well the limitations and the fact that d/p also lacks in many areas against a lot of other classes builds and even some of the thief’s builds.
Even without signet casts, my Shadow Shot hovers close to 6-7k on average. You’re probably not playing for that much damage is why. Nonetheless, the skill itself is grossly imbalanced, and it’s not uncommon to find thieves who play in small groups which indeed do just spam 3, and the efficacy of the skill itself is enough to really prevent any proper retaliation efforts to the point where if they played almost anything else except D/D condi, they’d be in a lot worse shape. It upsets me that the weapon is effectively universally good at everything, and ANet can’t really make some significant changes anywhere to help other builds while it remains so dominant.
I’m actually playing pretty close to the meta Marauder ascended armor, Zerker ascended accessories, marauder ascended dagger and exotic zerker pisol (my only exotic piece left is the pistol that is the one that does the SS dmg lol), with air&fire sigils, and pack runes (with scholar I might have gotten an dmg increase too, but I didn’t get them yet). Using DA, Tr, DrD with dash and improv, but I’ve played executioner for a long time before switching to improv. No sigils in my utility line-up if I’m not pve-ing. So there you have it. i can’t say for sore if the dmg will get that good after I pick up an ascended pistol, but still it won’t probably do that amount on heavy armor professions, or tanky builds which is usually what you see in WvW anyways.
I will admit, I do find a lot of D/P players overly-smug. A lot of people claim they’re a lot better than they are, and that so many claim the pinnacle of play when even in their best of moments nuances are often missed and misplays are made, often covered up by the weapon set. It upsets me the clearly-and-obviously best weapon set is the benchmark used to judge thief as a profession for the developers, rather than looking at design decisions of the class in general or realizing just how astronomically better it is than the rest in most instances.
On a final note I’d urge you to read my first paragraph and rethink how you view this, cause saying d/p is the best set it’s again, just a generalization from a very subjective point of view. I don’t care how smug other players are, if 15 it’s the only age they can have is their problem. I didn’t get into arguments with kids, though I would understand if you say these things happen more often in TC since that’s rp server or so I’ve heard. People just might be more “emotional” there. And I’m also sure the devs don’t take only one set and balance a whole profession around it. I don’t feel they are going the right way with the balance either, or at least not yet… But when I think of the balance i think of the way thief plays in the larger picture of the game, not only like in internal weapon set based turf.
P.S. so your anger really comes from people who just overpower you with a set that counters yours, and most of them are too smug for their actual skill… just leave them be, if you still play your favorite set I’m sure you also have some cool encounters that you managed to and they could never pull off, otherwise you wouldn’t be playing it. Savor those instead and stop getting frustrated over what kids do.
(edited by NuhDah.9812)
When I said reflect on engies I was actually referring to the reflect effects in general like retaliation too, sorry for not being clear and using another term that has specific characteristic in the game for something more general. Anyways, you didn’t have to list all the ways you go about fighting other classes, that wasn’t the point anyways. It’s not anyone could learn much form it just reading the summary you wrote down.
So you’re on Tarnish Coast… I have no idea how it’s the feeling from the other end, but from my perspective when my server was up against TC and Blackgate I can’t say I’ve ever had an easy fight. Now that Dragonbrand got paired against Jade Querry and Maguuma I already feel like the encounters are more relaxed (even though I have no idea why Db got depopulated overnight and it’s like no one’s playing anymore right now). Since I’m in Europe time zone maybe the times we join come with people of different skills, not sure how to explain this. since you’ve gone against my server and say people are easy kills in d/p probably most of Db is bad… I have no idea, never played against Db…
Anyways, your 12k SS I’m pretty sure only comes in groups where you get buffs from everyone and you play signets, and usually your dmg is twice as high as if you’d go solo and probably use bound and full zerker gear. My SS never goes over 5k on crit when I’m soloing around, ad it’s usually at 4k on crits and 2-3k without crit. And this is usually the value of the skill, not the 12k extreme the case scenario. Spamming SS would never get you anywhere unless you maybe want to finish up someone weak. You want to go against a Warrior if you press too much 3 you’ll be fried like a bug since fighting a warrior in melee range with d/p it’s suicide and that’s what SS actually does, put’s you in melee range.
That’s why I only use SS as a gap closer or block dmg filler if the planets align right and the enemy doesn’t have any other defenses over the block. For me it’s a utility skill, not as much as a dmg dealer since any other time aa does more dmg. heck if the enemy is under 50%-25% HP even Heartseaker does more dmg.
And yeah, I was talking about going up against skilled/decent players not the brain-deads. You mash 3 too much you’re dead against those ones. Why would I care how efficient SS is against players who are dead meat?
Anyways, I still don’t get why you have to trash d/p in every single post you write. Is this the only way you have to vent off your frustration of the general thief situation in the game? Do you hold a grudge against someone who uses d/p and always beats you on your favorite set?
(edited by NuhDah.9812)
Yay only for D/P users who never slotted the venom build. The changes hurt D/D power in PvP roughly the same as it did the VShare build itself in PvE.
Well since you’re trashing on d/p with your every post I have a suggestion. Why not create a new feed or ask the devs to make a forum entry for you entitled: “d/p thieves are op and need to be nerfed, they always beat me!” and post there something on topic whenever you feel sorrow…
They don’t always beat me. Quite frankly, only particularly good players using it tend to. The average D/P thief usually finds himself dead on the ground because he tries too hard to use backstab and I usually kill him while he’s in stealth setting up.
And in all seriousness, the quality of thief players since HoT has dropped so massively that I find them as typically being the easiest targets to kill while playing a greatsword reaper.
I hate it because I can play D/P and pretty much straight up not even try, and beat people by pressing 3 (although still not as bad as D/D condi). There’s no incentive to become a better player, fights are often trivial, and this skill is responsible for a huge divide in balance between weapon sets and the general state of the thief, also largely due to Shadow Shot.
D/P Daredevil’s dominance, historically and mathematically attributed to Shadow Shot, is a creeping cancer that’s made most of the best thieves in the game leave due to being pushed to non-viability in D/P’s wake.
Well, what you just wrote made me curious what wvw world are you playing on? Cause in most of the cases I meet some other player in wvw just with spamming 3 would never get me anywhere else then a checkpoint to get my kitten res-ed after few seconds in which I’d die miserably from either a mesmer condi burst, a DH trap, warrior knockdown + burst, engi reflect, and I can continue a long list here.
I guess my world is usually against the top US worlds so there might be a different skill level involved, but telling me you can beat anyone with just spamming SS makes me think you’re not playing against the right lot of people. It would also be fascinating to see what sort of low resistance from other player on your group of worlds can make kitten spammer thief look like trouble. Maybe I need to change servers to understand how op can a d/p thief get.
Has anyone found a moderately successful strategy for DHs’ traps (as power D/P)?
I reflexively pop Bandit’s Defense, which is invariably a mistake – kitten you unblockable CC!
I don’t know how effective blinds are against traps, but could shadowshotting in be useful at all? Afterwards, evading or shadowstepping out? (I don’t know the impacts of any of these.)
Neah, the only way to go over trapper DH with power D/P Sb thief is to play defensively, dodge through the trap, get out of LoS or evade while using poison with Sb, or enter stealth with D/P, and after the traps disappear or the DH leaves the area you switch to burst mode back without overcommiting. I think there was a better option to kill them by using P/P instead of Sb though… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCRDUYz87oU
Yay only for D/P users who never slotted the venom build. The changes hurt D/D power in PvP roughly the same as it did the VShare build itself in PvE.
Well since you’re trashing on d/p with your every post I have a suggestion. Why not create a new feed or ask the devs to make a forum entry for you entitled: “d/p thieves are op and need to be nerfed, they always beat me!” and post there something on topic whenever you feel sorrow…
in advance, i dont play thief in pvp.
theres a litle question to thieves theoricrafters:
thieve must be alwais a burst duelist? others clases moved their role trought the diferent metas but thieves no, ¿the real problem of thief is no viable build or closed minded thief comunity that not explores the other roles?
Let me answer your question. Why thief players treat and thieves are usually treated as a burst class, you ask?
Well first of all thief is pretty much the squishiest profession in the game, so if you want to play this thing you’ll need to be fast. You’re either killing you opponent first or you get killed. Therefor you need burst. So if you don’t want to play dodge-spam condi, you’re usually left with either a build that’s neither effective in surviving (cause of the power creep in the game from other classes, thief low health pool, active defense vs automatic defense other professions have plenty of, and bad condi clear while the game is cancered by condis) nor in dealing dmg effectively and also bad support, or the burst which you asked about.
Opposed to the popular belief that’s very spread on the forum according to which thief is something to be afraid of and need to be nerfed all the time cause you got beat in a flash by one in wvw, this profession without the person behind the keyboard and it’s actual skill, reflexes, terrain and situational overview, it’s one of the weakest (if not the weakest) in the game as a stand alone.
Hope I answered you question.
(edited by NuhDah.9812)
Vault is also an evade so I doubt there is to much time gap where the enemy can hit you when you’re using it. Also the AA reflect is also a tool to negate blinding projectile along with sending dmg back to it’s source.
Go duel Staff and see how accurately a player will interrupt, dodge, etc. I can do it about 90% of the time half in the bag. It will also miss 100% of the time trying to land in a blinding field as the hitch happens before it lands. Staff just gets obliterated by good players.
Best way to flip a camp is to find its gathering spot, put everything in one place and spam damage. Either the player is using AA on the group while taking damage or spamming Vault with the occasional misses, stuns, pulls. S/P does not have any of that mess to deal with since it evades the entire time and pops a stun each time.
Try them both on an upgraded camp… I think you will be pleasantly surprised at how efficient PW is and how nice an extra teleport with condi removal can be.
I was talking about fighting camp guards, not players. I mean, wasn’t that the topic? And I’m also not denying what you say about your preferred S/P version, I was just pointing out some things you ignored about the staff capability in clearing groups of mobs.
I feel like necros got a lot more dangerous after their last buff… not sure why but I always encounter some that only need to hit me once and my hp will go down on it’s own over time if I only use condi clear on evades. They weren’t this nasty before…
What buff are you talking about?
I guess I meant this stuff:
Necromancer
Necromancers are receiving mostly quality-of-life changes in this update. Our goal was mainly to improve baseline abilities and improve signature abilities for main-hand weapons and Death Shroud, along with the spectral utility type. Rise has seen significant changes, as we’ve observed that the damage reduction from the minions is too strong in many scenarios.
Life Siphon: The channel time of this skill has been reduced from 3.75 seconds to 2.75 seconds.
Ghastly Claws: The channel time of this skill has been reduced from 2.25 seconds to 1.75 seconds.
Wicked Spiral: This skill will now fire the correct number of whirl finishers.
Mark of Horror: Fixed a bug in which this skill would go on full cooldown if it was interrupted.
Spectral Grasp: Reduced the cooldown from 30 seconds to 25 seconds.
Spectral Walk: Reduced the cooldown from 60 seconds to 50 seconds.
Spectral Armor: Reduced the cooldown from 50 seconds to 40 seconds. The trait version is unchanged. Removed an erroneous skill description.
Flesh Golem—Charge: Increased the stability stacks from 1 to 3. Usage of this skill now clears immobilize from the golem as well.
Spinal Shivers: This skill casts approximately 0.25 seconds faster than before.
Life Blast: The higher damage value of this skill is now dealt at all ranges rather than at close range only.
Blood Is Power: Bleeding stacks have been increased from 2 to 4. Bleeding duration has been reduced from 30 to 15. Might stacks have been increased from 8 to 10, with the duration increased from 8 seconds to 10 seconds.
“Rise!”: Reduced the damage reduction from 50% to 33%. Decreased the health of shambling horrors by 25%. Minions now have 20% reduced toughness.
Signet of Undeath: Reduced the cooldown of this skill from 180 seconds to 150 seconds.
Unholy Sanctuary: Fixed a bug in which this trait would go on cooldown even if the player’s life-force levels were too low to enter Death Shroud.
Spiteful Spirit: The version of Unholy Feast that this trait executes will now include the player’s weapon damage.form https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-July-26-2016-1/first#post6270415
I know there were changes in last patch. What I was asking is which one of these would buffed necro so much against thief?
The only buffs worth mentioning is some cd reduction for spectral skills. Also, there was a significant nerf on “Rise”.
Not really sure myself… didn’t get the time to slowly get through them and analyse their impact on the class… i just feel like they have more control over me then before and also their dots are more annoying somehow… like they hit harder.
I feel like necros got a lot more dangerous after their last buff… not sure why but I always encounter some that only need to hit me once and my hp will go down on it’s own over time if I only use condi clear on evades. They weren’t this nasty before…
What buff are you talking about?
I guess I meant this stuff:
Necromancer
Necromancers are receiving mostly quality-of-life changes in this update. Our goal was mainly to improve baseline abilities and improve signature abilities for main-hand weapons and Death Shroud, along with the spectral utility type. Rise has seen significant changes, as we’ve observed that the damage reduction from the minions is too strong in many scenarios.
Life Siphon: The channel time of this skill has been reduced from 3.75 seconds to 2.75 seconds.
Ghastly Claws: The channel time of this skill has been reduced from 2.25 seconds to 1.75 seconds.
Wicked Spiral: This skill will now fire the correct number of whirl finishers.
Mark of Horror: Fixed a bug in which this skill would go on full cooldown if it was interrupted.
Spectral Grasp: Reduced the cooldown from 30 seconds to 25 seconds.
Spectral Walk: Reduced the cooldown from 60 seconds to 50 seconds.
Spectral Armor: Reduced the cooldown from 50 seconds to 40 seconds. The trait version is unchanged. Removed an erroneous skill description.
Flesh Golem—Charge: Increased the stability stacks from 1 to 3. Usage of this skill now clears immobilize from the golem as well.
Spinal Shivers: This skill casts approximately 0.25 seconds faster than before.
Life Blast: The higher damage value of this skill is now dealt at all ranges rather than at close range only.
Blood Is Power: Bleeding stacks have been increased from 2 to 4. Bleeding duration has been reduced from 30 to 15. Might stacks have been increased from 8 to 10, with the duration increased from 8 seconds to 10 seconds.
“Rise!”: Reduced the damage reduction from 50% to 33%. Decreased the health of shambling horrors by 25%. Minions now have 20% reduced toughness.
Signet of Undeath: Reduced the cooldown of this skill from 180 seconds to 150 seconds.
Unholy Sanctuary: Fixed a bug in which this trait would go on cooldown even if the player’s life-force levels were too low to enter Death Shroud.
Spiteful Spirit: The version of Unholy Feast that this trait executes will now include the player’s weapon damage.
form https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-July-26-2016-1/first#post6270415
Btw, if CnD was another port/shadowstep/gap closer, wouldn’t that make 2 from S/D sort of too much porting mobility especially since this one works without landing and also faster then the SS port? like you could gap close with only this 2 abilities 1800 range in a flash and also get into stealth afterwards.
I think that’s one thing we suffer from… we’re too focused on specifics instead of looking at the big picture. The Thief is in a bad place. 1,800 range shadowsteps wouldn’t change that. The Thief can already do that with D/P anyway… just using utilities instead of initiative. The Thief’s problem is that it doesn’t have the fighting ability once it gets into range, and it gets outranged by several other professions.
The only true way to “balance” the weapon sets is to give each whole set its own unique skills. And I don’t think that’s going to happen. So the best I can hope for is that they will “fix” some sets even if it increases the abilities of other sets which are already “fixed.” I’d prefer every set to be viable with some being overpowered than to have some sets viable while others can’t even compete at all. With the way the game is currently set up, those are the only two options I see that are available… which is VERY unfortunate.
Yeah i know thief already can do that even more using utilities, but adding this to that potential I mean. that’s what i was curious about what you guys think… And yeah I understand that this is an issue with the abilities not being exclusive for each weapon set in the current state of the game and that’s why I was asking if this would feel right in the current state of the game.
(edited by NuhDah.9812)
They finally own up to it, in today’s patch notes
Thief
Infiltrator’s Strike: Fixed a bug that prevented Infiltrator’s Return from becoming available when the skill was used in midair.
Yeap, just saw that too, after got kicked out of the pvp que and needed to restart the game for the next patch to take effect.
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