Guild Wars 2

Initiative is for skills that have no cooldown. Do you want steal on a 0s cooldown and take 4 initiative? I’m a thief myself, but that would be ridiculous.

Also, it would be counteractive as the first minor trait in Trickery gives 2 initiative back on stealing.

I believe it is that long to prevent people from waiting it out and then teleporting forward again to chase an enemy.

Vajra.3914:

childhoodtwo.7095:

Vajra.3914:

I would just higher again the revealed debuff only in WvW (up to 7-8 seconds) which would only hurt those who build their char arround stealth mechanism, thus discouraging low risk “high reward” gameplay in those maps.

Ouh look at this clueless guy he wants 8 seconds reaveal debuff, i cant stop laughing.
How about we put 8 seconds cd on every skill use on all other classess k tnx bye.

Nah, that’s just a band-aid fix for a problematic build xD;
i had something else in mind, like if u get revealed multiple time in a fix period of time (let’s say 20 seconds) the revelaed debuff grows each time u get revealed;
that could if anything leave some conterplay to those cheesy builds that abuse the hell out of stealth mechanism, but of course some1 also think that revealed debuff should disappear and have stealth on demand ¯\(®-®)/¯.

Point is, no one specs for max evasion AND max stealth. (if they do, they have no damage) Stealth is no invulnerability, what’s stopping you from spamming your AA where the thief disappeared? If your AA chain continues or an air/fire sigil procs, you know you hit them. Thieves are the weakest defensive class in the game, the only things we have to make up for this are stealth, evasion and shadowsteps. It’s not hard to move out of the way of Cloak and Dagger or interrupt the Heartseeker in Black Powder. You’re just blinded by the imagined “cheese” of stealth that you forget all about the counterplay that exists.

Turk.5460:

I wish P/P had the escape mechanics that P/D had ;\
Also I just watched the OP’s video, how do you shadow strike but not teleport backwards?

It seems like if you position yourself at just the correct distance and position from your target, it thinks the “target is too close” and won’t teleport you. Though, I’m not sure if they by “target” mean the enemy or the backwards-teleport destination. (Probably the latter as I didn’t even target the golem) It seems to always teleport you if you target your enemy though.

Again I wonder why such an excellent skill is stuck on a condition weapon set. If you know how to utilize it, things melt.

Vizardlorde.8243:

Meditations are all instant except for the healing skill and the elite. Just a heads up so you are not disappointed tomorrow. There are no instant heal skills in the game with the exception of the mesmer mantra if you ignore the pre cast.

Withdraw is technically instant, it’s instant cast and gives you the healing instantly.

Edit: Ninja’d.

MadVisions.4529:

zapv.8051:

Yes it is skillful play, other people will be able to counter your dodge spam by removing vigor. This means they will actually be able to do something about the massive amount of evades you will still have. Instant endurance regen isn’t skillful play at all. There is nothing the person you are fighting can do to counter you. That is the opposite of skillful play.

Not sure if you got the point. having bigger endurance pool on s/d is needed, do you even play the class? try to play a match w/o acro traitline. also “There is nothing the person you are fighting can do to counter you.” smells a bit. if s/d cannot be countered so winns all 1v1s then i missed something.
dont forget that you dont have on demand stealth so you are weaker against ranged pressure. thats what’s eating up a huge chunk of endurance.

I main 26006 S/D thief, actually, and don’t rely on Acro at all. I still do quite well with the increased crits and better burst/sustained damage potential. It’s all about playing skillfully with the dodges you have and the evades you have on your skills.

That was just to disprove that S/D relies on Acro. It really doesn’t, though it does help a lot. I agree with you on other points though, I don’t like the FG nerf either and I prefer plain endurance over uptime on a boon, especially since out 30% boon duration is now gone as well. Though, if the vigor buffing trait was buffed to like 50% like someone else suggested, I’d be cool with that.

And, of course, giving us USEFUL grandmaster traits. NONE of the current GM traits in Acro are ever usually taken for sPvP. Don’t Stop is looking promising though, from the last info I heard about it.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Suggestions like this is what…grr..me.

I’ll refrain.

What exactly…grr…’s you about it?

Deadly Arts currently doesn’t have a lot going for it. More traits are mediocre at best (though there are exceptions such as Mug) and the set of Grandmaster traits aren’t the best. I don’t like Panic Strike.

Critical Strikes has a nice combination of traits that deal with critical damage and normal damage and even some support, and has in my opinion the best set of Grandmaster traits. All three are very useful when applied correctly.

Shadow Arts is a nice traitline that focuses on improving the advantages of stealth. It’s pretty lackluster in other aspects though and some of its traits are a bit too cheesy for my taste.

Acrobatics shines mostly because of Feline Grace, as it does have good Adept traits and a few decent Master traits, but all the Grandmaster traits are awful. It’s a nice traitline still but not worth investing 6 points into.

Trickery is the most strategic and control-oriented traitline we have. It excels in augmenting Steal and also has a few party support options.

Hey fellow thieves. It’s pretty clear that the two main viable builds for Thief for sPvP is D/P and S/D. D/D has been hit with all kinds of nerfs (Dancing Dagger’s damage reduced, Cloak and Dagger’s damage in sPvP reduced, I think Death Blossom was also hit) mainly for sPvP and is now no longer considered a viable spec. I feel like the fact that we rely on stealth so much should be enough of a downside, and that some of the nerfs should be reversed/skills should be buffed, allowing for a more varying and useful D/D thief instead of just relying on chaining CnD -> Backstab to be able to win a fight.

The changes I feel necessary for this would be something like this:
(Obviously they’re not all necessary, but I deem the Death Blossom, Dancing Dagger, Cloak and Dagger and Stealth attacks’ changes the most important)

Changes for D/D skills:

Double Strike:
Increase damage coefficient from 0.56 to 0.6

Wild Strike:
Reduce damage coefficient from 0.85 to 0.75

Lotus Strike:
Increase damage coefficient from 0.85 to 0.9

Backstab:
Now costs 1 initiative

Heartseeker:
Reduce damage coefficient for over 50% health from 1.0 to 0.8
Increase damage coefficient for under 50% health from 1.5 to 1.6

Death Blossom:
Increase evade frame from 1/4s to 1/2s
Now if all three hits connect, inflict weakness (3s)

Dancing Dagger:
Increase damage coefficient from 0.5 to 0.8
Now the first and second hit inflict Cripple (3s) and the third and fourth hit inflict Immobilize (1s)
Increase initiative cost from 3 to 4

Cloak and Dagger:
Increase damage coefficient from 1.0 to 1.5 (in sPvP)
Now if this skill is blocked, evaded or interrupted, gain Revealed debuff for 3s (does not apply if the target is out of range or the skill user is blinded)

Changes for other skills: (Stealth attacks)

Tactical Strike:
Increase damage coefficient from 0.75 to 1.0
Now inflicts 1/2s daze from the front and 1s stun from the back
Now costs 1 initiative

Sneak Attack:
Increase damage coefficient from 1.225 to 1.5
Increase precast frame by 1/4s
Now costs 1 initiative

Surprise Shot:
Increase damage coefficient from 0.6 to 0.9
Increase precast frame by 1/4s
Now costs 1 initiative

General changes:
All skills that directly apply stealth that have a cast time (Cloak and Dagger, Hide in Shadows, Blinding Tuft, Mass Invisibility) grants the skill user Revealed (3s) if the skill is blocked, evaded or interrupted (Only Cloak and Dagger can be blocked or evaded)

I feel like these changes will improve the D/D thief’s ability to skirmish and stay in a fight longer without retreating to stealth, and successfully landing Cloak and Dagger becomes more important as you can’t immediately stealth afterwards if you miss it.

Leave feedback if you want, constructive criticism is welcome.

On a lifesteal build, what made you not pick Sigil of Blood/Leeching or Rune of Vampirism? Also, this is quite similar to my faceroll S/P build for PvE. I like it.

TheDuck.4526:

Razelesh.1035:

Save a CC for when you think they will drop Shadow Refuge. Most thieves (Including me) drop it when we’re losing, so at that point if you interrupt it/knock the thief out of it, you will probably win.

Makes sense. This is usually what I save my AoE fear for.

Do you have any advice for handling resets via shadowsteps? (S/D & Shortbow)

Infiltrator’s Return (the chain attack to Infiltrator’s Strike) has a 1/2s cast time and can be interrupted, though it’s usually not worth it since it can be used again pretty quickly.

The Shadowstep utility and its chain skill are both instant cast and don’t have an animation, so there’s not much you can do about those.

Infiltrator’s Arrow is tough to counter because it’s instant cast and can be used consecutively. However, as soon as you notice your enemy thief switching to shortbow, he doesn’t really have any major burst damage, so that can be your cue to CC the kitten out of him and lay the smackdown.

If he manages to escape despite this, there’s not really a lot you can do. Unless you know he’s really low on ini and doesn’t have any useful utilities, he will always be able to outrun you. At that point, you can capture the point you were fighting on (if that was the case) or go help a group fight elsewhere. Chasing down a thief who’s running will usually end in you wasting your time.

I haven’t played Warrior at all so I don’t know a lot about your options beside general stuff, but I assume you won’t have a lot of gap closers. Your hammer is probably your best friend while fighting a thief.

Save a CC for when you think they will drop Shadow Refuge. Most thieves (Including me) drop it when we’re losing, so at that point if you interrupt it/knock the thief out of it, you will probably win.

No valid path to target. (with Shadow Shot, Infiltrator’s Arrow, Infiltrator’s Signet etc)
Celestial Amulet. (I don’t mind it, just the fact it’s imbalanced)
Ranger’s Longbow. (mainly #2 and #4)
Fear spam. (Terrormancers)
Instant high damage procs. (Fire and Air sigils, Spinal Shivers etc)
Warrior’s Hammer. (3-4 CCs on one set)
Hide in Plain Sight. (Ranger trait, gives stealth on CC)
Panic Strike. (Cheap and stupid insta-proc)
Courtyard being in the same queue as the Conquest maps. (Seriously, why?)

D/D, prioritize gear with +Power
Once you get traits work toward one of two builds:
5/6/0/0/3, take III, IX, I, III, XI, V (highest damage potential)
0/6/5/0/3, take I, VI, XII, V, VI, V (more survivability and better team support)
Rotation:
F1 Steal
5 (Cloak and Dagger)
Stealth 1 (Backstab)
1 (Double Strike, Wild Strike, Lotus Strike)
Repeat, and throw in some 2 (Heartseeker) when the enemy is below 25% hp.

OR

S/P, prioritize gear with +Power
Once you get traits work toward one of two builds:
5/6/0/0/3, take III, X, I, IX, XI, V (highest damage potential)
5/6/0/0/3, take III, VI, I, VI, XIII, V (more survivability and better team support)
Rotation:
F1 Steal
3 (Pistol Whip) x5
1 (Slice, Slash, Crippling Strike) until you get some initiative back
Repeat, and throw in some 5 (Black Powder) if fighting multiple enemies or blinds are needed.

If more details are needed PM me.

D/D can work as a condi set by abusing #3 for massive bleed stacks, but you’d need venoms on your utilities for support conditions. P/D has superior sustained damage through ranged autoattack and stealth attacks that inflict bleed and easy distancing and torment through #3. All D/D really has as a condi set is #3, everything else on the set is power-based (well not #4, but cripple doesn’t DoT), so D/D is better as a full zerker or possibly hybrid.

P/D Dire with any condi dmg rune is one of the cheesiest roaming builds there is, though.

It’s a base 10s, but unlike the other signets Signet of Malice’s might doesn’t increase in duration when you have additional boon duration or might duration (for example Runes of Strength). I compared them all to show the difference. The other four signets seem to be fine. If you look at the Signet of Malice’s tooltip, it also says that the 5 stacks of might would give 175 power and 175 condition damage, when all other signets say 150 power and 150 condition damage.

All testing was done in the PvP Lobby.

Screenshots:

With no might/boon duration:
Signets of Power tooltip: http://prntscr.com/72poyn

Malice: http://prntscr.com/72pkqe
Assassin’s: http://prntscr.com/72pkwy
Infiltrator’s: http://prntscr.com/72plvy
Agility: http://prntscr.com/72pm7a
Shadows: http://prntscr.com/72pmht

With Runes of Strength and 10% boon duration:
Signets of Power tooltip: http://prntscr.com/72ppd1

Malice: http://prntscr.com/72pk2f
Assassin’s: http://prntscr.com/72pk92
Infiltrator’s: http://prntscr.com/72po5j
Agility: http://prntscr.com/72podz
Shadows: http://prntscr.com/72poj3

Pulls don’t pull the target if the target is not in combat. In that case, they just get knocked down.

I propose the change that a Venom charge will only be used up if what you hit/would have hit if not for evades, misses, blocks, you name it, would actually have been affected by the venom. This would prevent you from wasting it on things like walls, crates, downed players (which I personally think should be affected by it) and other things that it wouldn’t have had an effect on anyways.

Depends what you want the most. From the weapon sets that you said you like to use, the pistol is in 3 of them whereas the sword is in 2, make of that what you will.

The Caltrops on dodge have a smaller radius and less duration for balancing reasons, but I do believe the Blinding Powder on steal will be a “real” Blinding Powder, like the utility, just like Last Refuge and Instinctual Response are. Unless they aren’t, in which case the new trait probably won’t be either.

As far as I know, the trait that activates Armor of Earth for elementalists isn’t weaker than the utility itself in any way. It’s just like the trait for warriors that activates Endure Pain, and I’m almost certain that’s not weaker either.

Depends on weapon set.

D/D: Use skill #5 (Cloak and Dagger). It grants you stealth if it hits an enemy, so you can Backstab right after.

D/P: Use skill #5 (Black Powder) which creates a smoke field, then use skill #2 (Heartseeker) which is a Leap finisher, to combo with the smoke field and grant yourself stealth. Then you can Backstab your enemy. Optionally you can use Shortbow skill #2 (Cluster Bomb) instead of Heartseeker for a Blast finisher to grant area stealth.

There are also a few utilities and traits that can grant you stealth. Notable skills are Hide in Shadows (heal, 3s stealth), Shadow Refuge (utility, 3s stealth x5), Blinding Powder (3s stealth) and Smoke Screen (smoke field like Black Powder).

Sunfish.5970:

Razelesh.1035:

I’ve been the downed player in this situation a few times, placing Shadow Refuge just before I got downed, and I can say that I have been knocked out of the circle while it was pulsing and gotten revealed, just as I would if I wasn’t downed. I haven’t seen anything odd about it. However, I haven’t tried getting Refuge placed on me when I was already downed and then being knocked out, so that could be it.

It was probably you not being inside of the refuge for more than a single tick, so when you got knocked out, the time you spent airborn took up all the stealth you received from the refuge.

You can test it if you dont believe me. It’s an existing issue.

I was inside the refuge for longer than that, since I placed it on top of me just before I got downed by a hit, and then got CC’d after that. Though, I will try it again with a friend later.

I’ve been the downed player in this situation a few times, placing Shadow Refuge just before I got downed, and I can say that I have been knocked out of the circle while it was pulsing and gotten revealed, just as I would if I wasn’t downed. I haven’t seen anything odd about it. However, I haven’t tried getting Refuge placed on me when I was already downed and then being knocked out, so that could be it.