Guild Wars 2

I made the mistake of unlocking 2 of my elite specs (thief and elementalist) in the sPvP lobby, the line unlocked normally, but the exotic skin, the exotic item and the collection have not…

that’s an easy one, the answer is no.

everytime you want to change your build you’ll have to do it manually

BrotherBelial.3094:

I agree with you, I understand where people are coming from, I really do. But, I do think people are forgetting that this has all been put in so people, oh I don’t know, have things to do in HoT. Why is with people wanting to put in the smallest amount of effort possible when it comes to games.

If they wanted us to have things to do, they could do something original like give us more maps, story to go with said maps, up the crafting to 500 for all professions, revamp the dungeons so they’re not the sad affair they are now, put in more fractal islands istead of making us grind the same one we’ve had already. And if they really really wanted us to have some stuff to do AND impress everybody at the same time, they’d revamp underwater combat to a state that’s both playable and fun and leave us all speachless with that amazing huge underground lake that’s illuminated by various minions of mordremoth and it’s choke full of stuff to see and experience. Instead they’ll have us grind four maps to the point where the word maguuma will cause vomit to some of us…

BrotherBelial.3094:

People complained for years the game was too easy. ANet ramps up the difficulty, people they say it’s too hard because they are getting one shoted in zurker gear.

Not the same people. Many many ppl were perfectly happy with the difficulty setting. People join in the forum noise when they’re not happy, when they are, they’re in game enjoying themselves. So as one crowd got satisfied (the make it harder folk), the previously satisfied crowd (was fine as it was folk) joined the forum noise to express their newly found dissatisfaction. Really, is it so hard to understand that? “People” aren’t a hive mind, there’s no collective anywhere. So “people” did this or that means absolutely nothing cause each time it’s -different- people.

BrotherBelial.3094:

But I will say this, part of me thinks that this was done so ANet had more time to balance the new specs. But that’s just my tinfoil hat wearing part of me.

This was done, all of it, to obfuscate the fact that this isn’t an expansion, but a big feature pack with some living story and a couple of features thrown in. Cause had they made this thing any less grindy than it already is, we’d be done with it in 2 weeks.

Let’s hope the next expansion (if the game doesn’t die off in the meanwhile) comes relatively soon and it’s a proper one…

It’s funny how the white knighting started even before launch?

it’s gonna be that bad huh?

you know what’s also funny? the fact that you don’t have the same attitude when you buy any other product. “Oh it’s a new tv honey, you didn’t expect it to work perfectly right out of the box now, did you?” or “It’s a new car mate, of course the break won’t work all the time, trust me they’ll fix it”. “It’s a new airplaine, obviously some models will crash, don’t you know not to fly when a new airplane comes online?”

HoT is a product, as all products it should do what it says in the box, so to speak. You’re not calling ppl who expect their tvs to work as adverntised entitled perfectionists, you call them informed and responsible consumers. It’s time to become one yourself. Maybe that way, when they promise you new legendaries, you’ll actually get ’em in the projected timeframe, and not three years later.

My 2c

Azumi.9572:

In most games, Casuals are the majority. In GW2, Casuals are the game.

qft

i think i’m gonna copy paste this all over the place, and spread the light of truth and water of wisdom that’s contained in this sentence right here

also i’m adding it to my singature to save me some trouble manually putting it everywhere i go in this forum

Tigaseye.2047:

As a developer, you make the casual side of your player base feel undervalued at your own peril.

it’s not like there’s another game out there that catered to the “veterans” and “hardcore” players who flunked badly cause once you lvled up there wasn’t much to do as a casual, and then casuals left it in droves, and it went under and then it relaunched just four or five days ago as a free to play advertising how much of a casual frendly experience it has become. nopes, nothing of the sort, cough wildstar cough

Azumi.9572:

ReiCH.6273:

Azumi.9572:

aNet listened to the casuals who complained about it being hard, evidently.

Yeah, imagine that. A company catering to their core audience and not a vocal minority in a forum. Who would have thought? I mean it’s not like they caved in and gave “hardcore” ppl raids or anything. Which btw will probably get nerfed too after 6 months. It’s almost like they’re trying to make money by wanting ppl to enjoy their product and stay in the game buying crap they don’t need from the shop. The nerve!

The expansion should be ultra hard, 3000 hour minimum /age affair. And! there should be a written exam before allowing us to enter verdant brink. Passing mark of 75% upwards. The test should be ultra hard too, to make sure that only the purest of the pure vereran hardcore players can access it. None of them pleb casuals should play along side the noble veterans. Am I right?

Filthy Casual. Get away from me before you infect me with your grossness.

You must be the first person ever to not throw a tantrum when teased a bit…

if I had a hat, i’d tip it off for you good sir/madam/your pronoun of choice ;P

Azumi.9572:

aNet listened to the casuals who complained about it being hard, evidently.

Yeah, imagine that. A company catering to their core audience and not a vocal minority in a forum. Who would have thought? I mean it’s not like they caved in and gave “hardcore” ppl raids or anything. Which btw will probably get nerfed too after 6 months. It’s almost like they’re trying to make money by wanting ppl to enjoy their product and stay in the game buying crap they don’t need from the shop. The nerve!

The expansion should be ultra hard, 3000 hour minimum /age affair. And! there should be a written exam before allowing us to enter verdant brink. Passing mark of 75% upwards. The test should be ultra hard too, to make sure that only the purest of the pure vereran hardcore players can access it. None of them pleb casuals should play along side the noble veterans. Am I right?

Stormbolt.7293:

I get Anet catering to casual players in the base game, but this is an expansion designed and marketed towards veterans. It should be tough as nails. It’s a level 80 zone in an expansion, casuals or newbies won’t be playing this.

I’ve been in the game for 3 years now, I consider myself a casual, and I’m in verdant brink already. Other casuals will be there also. This isn’t an expansion for the “veterans” whatever that may mean, it’s an expansion for everyone. For tough as nails go to a raid. The rest of the game should maintain its character and consistency throughout. The nerf to difficulty was a bit much imo, betah weekend 2 lvls of difficulty with an adjusted damage spread for the snipers and we’re golden (again in my opinion). Tough as nails is over there through the red portal.

Any words if pets will start remembering their own names any time soon? Sure it can’t be that hard to fix that one little super annoying thing…

I can’t be alone in this….

Don’t know if someone’s mentioned this already but since we’re getting new pets, can we please have them remember their own names and not be juvenille any more? At least the new ones… can we do that? please?

BWE 2 Feedback
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How I tested
I tested every specialization and treated it as if it is its own class. That means that not only i used the spec trait line, but the weapon and the utilities, almost exclusively. Not entirely sure if this was the best approach, but it is the one I’ve decided to take. I wanted to feel each spec for what it was and not what I becomes when you mix other stuff in it. For the same reason I’ve also changed the builds around having the other 2 spec lines supporting the theme of the spec line, in a way that made sense to me (again might not have been the smartest thing but there you have it). All specks got tested in full berserker exotic gear, except the supporty/healy versions that I used the celestial instead.

What kind of player I am
Super casual, ex raider, i’ll do it when i feel like it type of player. I’m no master of gameplay. I can barely maintain a 50,001% victory margin in pvp. I play all the classes, I don’t main anything. I’m no speed runner, no class expert either. I’m as average as they come, and I’m having fun doing stuff. I don’t do silly stuff like stand on the red on the ground, but i can’t tell you what every type of finisher does with every field like some others can. As I said average. I know enough to be able to play. I love quests and lore in general. Enjoy the feedback.

How is the difficulty of the new hostile mobs, and are they fun and exciting?
The mob difficulty is fine, and perhaps just a bit on the easy side. Just a bit. It was really refreshing to see mobs go invis, run away and attack you from another angle. Definetely a plus. Overall a very pleasant experience and fun, and you didn’t get tired after the third mob. Also a very welcome change is the increase of the skill pool for mobs. It seems like mobs have more attacks to chose from and some have some sort of strong and weak points which gave flavour aplenty and on some cases forced you to adapt a bit.

One issue I’v stumbled upon some times is the ability of certain mobs to almost kill you instantly if you get caught at a bad time. Some mobs, not all, have very strong attacks with somewhat weak or non existant tells or telegraphs so it’s easy to get caught of guard. Sniper mobs and smokescales come to mind. The mechanics are not bad, on the contrary, the mechanics are fun and interesting. It’s the tuning of the abilities that felt a bit off. Personally I would prefer it if the mobs in total were a bit stronger, and those specific attacks that can take you down super fast were either toned a bit (a bit though, don’t nerf it to the ground) or better yet, had some sort of telegraph or tell so you have some warning about what’s comming.

On that note, bosses would use some more revealing tells OR -better yet- the game should auto lower the effects. I was in an event and the glows and fires and thunters and particles were over the top making watching for that giant frog hammer difficult. I can’t remember if the game gives you already that ability in the options, if it does please disreguard.

Finally there were some bugs here and there, like ranged attackes passing through walls and skills that were supposed to stop them, but those are just bug that will get fixed eventually so no biggie. Same goes for the occasional boss that doesn’t do anything yet. And since the experience was positive, I have to say I really liked some of the boss fights, new and interesting abilities, we need more of that. It was fun.

With the Opening of two new outposts, we are adding in a bunch of new events. Are they fun?
Short answer yes they are. I thoroughly enjoyed myself and the fact that both event chains are dressed up with story was even better. I found myself going to different events and different places in the events just to catch up with all the dialogue. Adding voice acting was a great idea, made everything feel more alive which is always a plus. I’ve done both event chains with all availiable specs plus the revenant and I didn’t get tired or bored which says a lot about th pacing. It was nice, and felt just right. For reference I consider silverwastes a torture box that should be used only in emergencies. Eventually everything gets old and tiresome, but this time it didn’t start as such and i think that’s important. Finally the comic relief in one event was very nice, i giggled and it didn’t detract from the general atmospere of the area.

Do the new events bring you more into the world?
Yes, as I’ve said above, the addition of story to the events that unfolds before your eyes was great, you really wanted to see it through, and got a feeling about the atmosphere of the zone

Are the new events challenging, meaningful, and interesting?
They are most certainly meaningful and defenitely interesting. Challenge wise they were ok, could use juuuuust a hint, a very small hint of difficulty. Of course people were dieing left and right everywere but that’s because most people didn’t know the fights well and got caught off guard standing in the red. By the time i tested revenant (saved it for last) i barelly died from anything except when i tried to save someone and ending up dieing right next to (no good deed goes unpunished). Still the events felt more fun and engaging than other main tyria event. So a definite step in the right direction.

Mastery System
How is the progression?
I went in with no masteries left with four and didn’t farm at all for them. I understand the first tier needs to be super fast to get and as you go up in level they become harder. I can tell cause the fourth tier of masteries felt super long. Still, I have to wonder a bit here, with an account wide system like that, to be able to reach fourth lvl mastery in gliding (after taking the mushroom one also) felt a bit fast (I cannot believe I just wrote that). Maybe the last 2 tiers will require more time and effort that the beginning ones. Can’t tell you for sure didn’t reach that high. However I would love it if you kept the first tier like it is right now, cause you really do need to grabe the first tier essentials to enjoy the game, and then make a more balanced approach on how fast you take each mastery, so that you feel you’re progressing at a steady pace instead of going up fast and then boom an xp wall smashes your face. Keep in mind i didn’t progress the masteries beyond fourth tier gliding so take that into account.

How is it using the mastery abilities in the current area?
More updrafts please. I got the updraft mastery and wanted to test it but darn things were nowhere to be found. If I have to ask on map chat were to find some updrafts to use maybe there aren’t enough of them. Again a more even and spread out approach seems better to me, but i’m no game designer.

Is the mastery system providing a meaningful area of progression?
To be honest here, the answer is no. I didn’t feel like i was progressing my character. They felt more like part of the map mechanics and as such they were fun and engaging and gave you something to do. Of course it could be because i’ve unlocked gliders and mushrooms which are part of the map mechanics. But I definetely didn’t get the feeling that i was progressing as a character (or account) but more like i was upgrading the map for my play. I found nothing wrong with that, I rather enjoyed it alot.

Do you care about experience and mastery points?
About experience, no. But that’s more due to the type of player I am than anything else. I even wanted to test if an xp booster affects your mastery intake but i forgot. This is how much I care. On the other hunt mastery points I totally care. Going after them felt like a weird combination of a scavenger hunt, an adventure and a gliding puzzle (can we please have some? gliding puzzles i mean, like jumping puzzles, but with gliders). It was absolutely fun figuring out where exactly is the point, and how to reach it. You get a weird enjoyment when you do that. It felt great when i found a shorter path to one of the more difficult to reach, and a total idiot when i couldn’t figure out how to get one of the easier ones. More of this please. Also one final not on masteries. I understand that many people don’t care to read the text BUT i’m not one of them. Change that generic, boring stuff about us demonstrating our masteries and put in some small stories full of flavour like we get in main tyria when we commune with a place of power. Just like some and sweet mini lore candy for when we get there. For the few of us who read the quest texts in mmos :P

Does it provide a good framework to add more masteries in the future?
Originally I was against the concept, it felt short and weak on paper. Now that i’ve experienced it in context though, I think it does provide a good framwork. Especially if such masteries become integral parts of the maps. Honestly thinkign of masteries as part of map didn’t diminish the experience of them (as I originaly assumed) but it had the opposite effects on the maps. Masteries made the maps more interesting and engaging. You just don’t progress yourself or your account, you progress the map. and it feels great. More map clusters should be treated like that, and, i’ll dare say it, go back in normal tyria and add region specific masteries there too. Lika ascalon masteries etc etc. I still don’t see it as a character progression system but as a map progression system it felt great. Most important it was fun. And it made it clear that the interaction of masteries with the maps produce more interesting maps mechanically.

Do you want to learn as many masteries over time to overcome challenges later in the future?
Yes! My mind goes to overdrive just thinking the underwater masteries we might get one day when bubbles comes out. Please fix underwater combat, you got a nice thing going there, don’t thow it away, thanks. Back on topic now.

Stronghold PvP -Feedback on the new UI -Feedback on Stronghold itself
Played a few matches. The ui is nice and informative. Can’t say much more than that. The map is new and interesting, just not sure about how it will end up being played. I mean i’ve already noticed certain paterns forming up but until we end up with an idea about the best strategy that will be used, we can’t tell. Right now it’s different and new and fresh, and pvp needed that. The idea behind the map is nice. Time will tell the rest.

Specializations
Berserker
I was expecting to be wowed by this specialisation but truth be told, i wasn’t. You get your adrenaline up fast, you press the berserk button and you expect something to happen. And it doesn’t really. After 15 seconds it’s over and you’re standing there thinking that’s it? were’s the rest of it? it just feels like you get a great 15 second buff but that’s all. The enhanced specialization F skills felt weak also (except maybe the bow and rifle). Especially the axe. Didn’t made me want to use it, at all. Sometimes it even felt as a downgrade. The torch skills on the other hand were fun and clicked into play almost immediately. The utilities were ok but nothing impressive after all. The elite was fun, buf for a skill that requires you to pair it up with another utility to unstun yourself, it felt undertuned somehow. Finally the heal skill. I don’t know what was it about it but i couldn’t use it all. It felt cluncky, undertuned, didn’t heal enough, easily lost in the heat of battle. Some of that is lost due to my inexperience with the spec but still it felt bland, souless, flavourless. Tune it up would be my choice (but i’m no game designer)

Another thing with berserk is that it didn’t really change the way i play. I felt i was more of a warrior than a berserker. A warrior that berserks, instead of a bersker that reverts to warrior now and again. Don’t know if that makes sense.

Tempest
It sounded boring and ininspired on paper, more of the same. Ended up being pretty fun all around. I have a thing for fire spells, and maybe that’s why i loved warhorn on fire, but water felt nice too. Air and Earth were ok. Didn’t spend much time useing them. The shouts were fun to use (didn’t expect that at all). Heal skill also fun, even the elite was “fun” in its own way (can the eles get a really cool, self centered elite please?). Overcharging your attunement was fun, didn’t feel clunky or out of place, and I at least found a playstyle almost immediately. Everything fell into play, and I had fun.

Didn’t change the way i play the class, but it does gave me more options and if felt fun. I’ll leave the number crunching to the pros.

Daredevil
Classic thief. Play it the first time you hate it, leave, play it again love it. Same thing happened with daredevil. Nice spec, had tons of fun with it. Staff skills are better than they look on paper, great fun to play. Made a mobile thief, even more mobile. Only gripe with staff is the auto attack animation chain 3. It’s silly, the visualls don’t match the range of the skill either and it feels like we’re underwater or something. Please change it to something more “martial artsy” than having it resemble the move that the head of a marching band would do. For that matter, change the way we hold the staff in general, it’s not natural or cool. Copy the monkey king would be my advice, he knows his staff moves. Healing skill is nice, awefull choice of animation. Please don’t reuse animations like that, i felt like i was watching my guardian with staff number four. Surelly you can come up with something more original than that. Elite is different and fun, a sure plus, especially when we get mobs we can use it to finish up. Utility skills were nice and fun no complaints there.

One of the few specs that really did change the way i play the thief. The choice of 3 different dodge types is really great. Only gripe is that the jumping dodges feel a bit slow, maybe up their animation speed just a bit. The swiftness one was all right.

Dragon Hunter
Really, really powerfull spec. I didn’t expect that at all. A tad boring to play (it’s a ranger with a bow made out of light) but darn powerfull. Bow auto attack could really use some speed, the projectiles are slow, too slow. They felt like I was shooting arrows underwater and the friction made ‘em slow. On the other hand the projectile destroyer arrow we get, is going too fast for an unskilled player such as myself to actually use in a meaning full way. Maybe slow it up a little. As it was i was either shooting it too early, or too slow, making the sniper mobs extremelly happy. I think one of them told me they were sorry for ruining the shot for me. Now, traps. I thought they would be bleh, but they weren’t. Except dragon’s maw. The rest were surprisingly fun to use and watch, nice animations indeed. There was something satisfying watching all traps go off at the same time and the pretty numbers. Dragon’s maw was … ok i guess. Nice animation but that’s about it. I’ll leave the number crunching, as always, to the pros. New virtues were nice, felt like an enhanced version of their older selves. New ways to use them too.

Dragon hunter changes a lot the way you play guardian if you want it to. With a bit of wardrobe magic you can be a ranger of the light without a pet. Good stuff.

Chronomancer
It’s a mesmer, only better. Can’t go wrong with that. Everything felt tight and into place. The shield skills, omg, the shield skills. What a joy to use. Even if this thing doesn’t go meta, I’m sure ppl will use the shield just for the fun factor. I used both skills on cooldown, just because i could. As for the wells, cool effects, cool animations, utility on demand. Everything felt right, everything felt fun, everything worked well with everything else. Just a joy to play and be in events. Mesmer has always been one of the most original classes i’ve seen in an mmo, and chronomancer continues that trend.

It doesn’t change the way you play the class, it just makes it feel even better.

Reaper
It felt like I was a tank in cloth armour. With a huge sword. Auto attack 3 was very satisfying, it really did feel like something cold and heavy was comming down. Sword 2 is also nice (especially when the enemy is under 50%), and that floaty animation does grow on you alot. Sword 3 was also great, it just felt like the range suggested by the visuals of the skill don’t match the actuall range of the skill. Either that, or I can’t aim or judge distance properly (always a possibility). Skill 5 on the gew is … peculiar. something is off with that thing. Feels like it’s too short? misses too much? can’t really tell, but it felt off. I didn’t use it much. I could tell you more about the healing skill if i had any chance to use it, but truth be told, everything died without actually making me use the heal skill. I think i might have used it once in an event when i got kitteny and stood in front of a big hit comming down. Utility shouts felt weird at first, but i found myself using them all the time (i wasn’t in shroud). They fun in their own way. Elite shout, felt nice also. Reaper shroud was mental. Things melt away, you look cool doing it. The abilities were fun, felt tight, a joy to use. I don’t know how much use this spec will see in raids, or pvp, but for solo pve in the maguma it was extremely fun and enjoyable.

It felt like a different necro.

Revenant
Too tired to write it up, I played this the most. Tested it as dps, tank/support, heal/support, condi build. If anyone is interested in it I might write up something tommorow.

Almost Final Thoughts
Small bugs asside, this beta weekend left me feeling better about my purchase. There is no doubt in my mind that this expansion is a super small one. There should be no doubt in anyone’s mind. But it’s well made. If what I saw in this weekend is a herald of things to come, then, (and I can’t believe I’m saying this) I can live with it, as long as the next expansion comes in a 12 to 15 months and is more appropriately sized. Everything else was fun. I had fun this weekend. And it wasn’t the new car smell effect (ok maybe it was just a bit).

Pukc.6328:

ReiCH.6273:

I See No Tomorrow.7302:

Why wouldn’t you have exclusive rewards for specific content? Even Tequatl has exclusive rewards, and Fractals, and Dungeons, and Dry Top, and the Silverwastes… What would be the purpose of not having exclusive rewards?

Very correct, now all they have to do is implement legendary armour, skins, minis and titles for the top tier in pvp and wvw and the game will be able to offer something for everyone …

Legendary back for top tier pvp

Hardly competes with full set of legendary armour, minis, other skins, titles, guild decos if you’re a pve’er though… fair is fair, they need as much love as the raiders

And if you’re into WvW .. well … tough luck huh?

I See No Tomorrow.7302:

Why wouldn’t you have exclusive rewards for specific content? Even Tequatl has exclusive rewards, and Fractals, and Dungeons, and Dry Top, and the Silverwastes… What would be the purpose of not having exclusive rewards?

Very correct, now all they have to do is implement legendary armour, skins, minis and titles for the top tier in pvp and wvw and the game will be able to offer something for everyone …

Coulter.2315:

ReiCH.6273:

Belenwyn.8674:

Say bye-bye to build locking.

Build roles are what you do at a character level. Things like what weapons, utility skills, traits, and even armor you choose to bring to a fight. Some encounters are going to push you to try different weapons you rarely use, some are going to challenge you to select traits you haven’t considered equipping before, and some encounters may even require a member of your group to dust off that toughness gear to bulk up and tank some heavy hits to protect the condition-build players in the back. This is just a tiny sample of the types of build roles we want to push as a core part of Guild Wars 2 dynamic combat.

https://www.guildwars2.com/de/news/designing-challenging-content/

yeah, unfortunately, time to start crafting a couple more of ascended armours to go along with all the other stuff we’ll have to carry around just to do a raid.

shame really but what can you do.

Oh it was a money saving thread all along xD

Money, convenience and fun (i do really like build locking)

Belenwyn.8674:

Say bye-bye to build locking.

Build roles are what you do at a character level. Things like what weapons, utility skills, traits, and even armor you choose to bring to a fight. Some encounters are going to push you to try different weapons you rarely use, some are going to challenge you to select traits you haven’t considered equipping before, and some encounters may even require a member of your group to dust off that toughness gear to bulk up and tank some heavy hits to protect the condition-build players in the back. This is just a tiny sample of the types of build roles we want to push as a core part of Guild Wars 2 dynamic combat.

https://www.guildwars2.com/de/news/designing-challenging-content/

yeah, unfortunately, time to start crafting a couple more of ascended armours to go along with all the other stuff we’ll have to carry around just to do a raid.

shame really but what can you do.

Coulter.2315:

What about Mesmers though which are basicly tool boxes (they are weaker at most single aspects they can build for but have access to more aspects than other classes), removing their ability to mould themselves to each encounter makes them a worse choice to take.

Mesmers change utilities and weapons many times through a dungeon to maintain relevance, build locking punishes the class.

Build locking also causes issues when progressing and only works after the whole raid has been done with guides up. Imagine getting to the 3rd boss and theory crafting but being unable to test without resetting the whole thing – infuriating.

Build locking is a bad idea, real difficulty should be from the encounter NOT from preventing players to experiment or adapt.

What about everyone else who isn’t a toolbox and don’t get invited ever cause you can do everything with 2 mezmers and 8 elementalists? That’s not really an argument.

Or maybe this time mesmers should mould themselves to be a little less specific and a bit more generic. Build locking punishes nobody. It just makes things interesting and fun.

Good, you can wait for the guides then, if you get so infuriated. I’m sure there will be other content for you to do untill the guides.

Build blocking is a great idea. You’re not build locked when you finish your raid attempt, so you’re free to experiment and adapt the next time around. Gives you time to think and make an informed decision instead of you blindly throwing abilities and traits at the boss wall and see what sticks.

Seera.5916:

The only way to prevent this is to prevent anyone from rejoining the group of the leave it. Which is where Fractals started at. Which would prohibit anyone with spotty internet issues from doing raids. And spotty internet can happen to hardcore players, too.

Which means build locking would not be completely locked given ANet’s past history with making it so disconnects don’t punish a player or group. And most players could figure out how to kill their internet or the power if it required the connection to be suddenly lost.

Or they could class lock, and allow you to rejoin the raid only with the class you’ve entered it with? You can disconnect as many times as you can, but you’ll only get in the instance if you’re with the class you had in your first encounter? That could work could it not?

Random.4691:

Its up to Anet to bring all classes to a desired state, this is one of the number 1 issues with so many games, some classes have wayyy to much utility while others suffer from having hardly any.

Maybe they should have first brought the classes on par with each other, and then add raids?

Neox.3497:

We will probably end up seeing people even changing professions after each boss in order to kill him faster and easier.

We won’t get build locking, can we at least not have to suffer this too?

Harper.4173:

So you don’t assume people will split roles at the start of the raid – with the classes that do one role best being designated as that role ?
You assume everyone will bring a “balanced class” – wow that’s amusing.

I don’t so much as asume, but more along the lines of hoping it will happen if the content requires it. What I’m fairly sure of though, is that there will be no balanced builds with us being able to change stuff between fights. We will 99% of the cases be stuck with the designated role.

Loex.5104:

What? with locking gear / build will “allow us to come with new builds that are more diverse and fun to play with.”

that makes absolutely no sense

Actually it does, you just have to think a bit differently. See when you can adjust to any situation you don’t really need diverse builds, builds that can do 2 or 3 things relatively well. We’ll only ever need builds that do one thing really well. Whatever it is that your function will be in the raid. With build locking however you’ll have to come up with a build that can funtion well for all the bosses, and that means that each build would require that you do more than one thing. Thus new builds could form that would do a bit of support and dps, or dps and control or control and support. Without build blocking the raid leader will just call the roles and there will be fewer of those builds around. Everyone will be specialized to the extreme. I find that less fun, and more boring

Looks like build locking won’t be incorporated in the game, you can switch stuff around between encounters…

I wonder how are they gonna get raiders to bring certain classes along now…
Not to mention the constant switching around all the time…

Neox.3497:

Finally someone who understands it. Btw, what do YOU think about what Colin said here:

http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2/v/13427956?t=28m06s

From ~28:06 to ~29:06

Well some of it sounds like pr talk. Reminds me that thing they said about not having attunement but conveniently forgot that we’ll have to grind masteries.

In any case, i think it is a possitive thing if they do manage to pull off the feat that will have all classes in the game to be able to do at least 2 out of the 3 roles they suggested we already can do (doubt it). Support, control, dps. That will most certainly give out a bit of flavor for all classes, cause right now we’re all in one role, dps.

To go back to the topic at hand, it seems they do have some sort of build locking already in place, so I would expect that we’ll have to use new builds that can perform ok in more than one role. Or at least that’s my hope and wish.

DevilLordLaser.8619:

Sigh

And that is why threads like this come into being.

“Please understand, this content is only for awesome people. I don’t meant to insult you, honest, but you’re sort of a talentless scrub. Sorry, man. This content can’t be something talentless scrubs can accomplish, because then it wouldn’t be worth doing. Only content that the top five percent of players in this game, the awesome players, will ever see is worth doing. The rest of the game is mostly just filler. I mean, if you like filler that’s great! Enjoy it! I’ve been known to slum it around in filler content a time or two myself, in between cooking five-star meals at my oceanfront mansion for me and my supermodel physicist fiance! Filler content’s not bad, but…well, you are.

And if they keep making content for bads like you, well, the game just won’t hold up."

Is it really any wonder you guys get flak over this stuff?

You are absolutely right my friend. This is exactly what’s being said. That’s why I was very much against the idea of raids for the game. However they’re here, and denying the reality of it doesn’t do anyone any justice. I was a raider before, and it looks like i’ll be one again. Raids are to pve, what to top tier ladders are to pvp. You don’t go about mocking the professional pvp teams do you? You don’t call them out on their elitism. You accept that. And yet for pve it’s different? Raids symbolise the ability of a group of people to discipline and coordinate themselves in such a manner that others cannot. They represent a level of commitement to the game that one can easily say it’s almost like work. When you enter a raid team you’re making a long term commitement. You pretty much say to 9 other people that almost every saturday for the next X months, you commit to being there, to having the gear you need to have, to having the build you need to have, to follow the instructions of the raid leader, to brainstorm together with the rest of the team to overcome each boss etc etc. Quite frankly, if raids are at a level were casual pugs can do them, they stop representing what they should represent and become just 10 man dungeons ready for speed runs. Does that sound like challenging group content? And one last thing, if truly Anet doesn’t see raids like that, then maybe they shouldn’t give to raids 6 slots of legendary gear, when pvp, which is definetely like that only gets 1, or fractals. And don’t get me started on the guys that do WvW, they get nothing. So clearly, the logical conclusion is that raid is for Anet the pinnacle of the game.

Personally, I would love it if all rewards were time gated for the rest of the game so 6 months later or 3 months later, other people could just do pvp, or wvw or grind events in maguuma and get the same rewards. I think that’s what would be best for the game and the community, since I don’t like it when people feel left behind. But, raids, cannot be anything else than an elitist playground.

Hope that cleared up some things.

Esreyr.6304:

I love the idea of build locking.

But I’m curious as to what you think should be locked?

• Change Weapons
• Change Armour
• Change Stats (ascended armour and weapons)
• Trait points
• Class Features (Ranger pets, Revenant legends)
• Heal, Elite and Utility skills

Further how would ANET prevent this? For some reason I see people disconnecting and relogging. The same sort of shenanigans people use to rez for Mai Trin. Or could you drop your one class and bring in another toon on your account? Maybe even a duplicate toon with a different spec?

Me too :P

I think the lock should be on gear, traits and classes. You shouldn’t be able to relog with your mezmer, and you shouldn’t be able to change your gear or traits. Abilities i think would be ok.

Put in a disconnecct limit? go offline 2 times during the raid and you’re out?

Harper.4173:

Also when did this become a “please don’t let the casuals complete” discussion ?

I didn’t become don’t let the casuals complete, it is, casuals shouldn’t be able to complete. 10 strangers shouldn’t be able to progress. it’s different. the challenge will be there, accesible to all, everyone is welcome to try it, and I imaging 6 months down the line, or a year down the line all raids would be on farm status and more causal players could follow a guide and pull it off just fine in their own time. But if 10 strangers, with zero knowledge on the raids, and zero practice on their strategy can pull it off, well, that’s bad. Bad design, bad desition on the part of the company, and certainly not challenging content.

Loex.5104:

why do you want to remove the diversity of the classes?
it’s exactly the other way round bro. making it possible to change gear / traits / weapons during the dungeon makes it more interresting as you can adjust your group to the situation you’re in

Because atm i don’t feel there’s any diversity in the classes. We’re all dps. I feel that build locking will allow us to come with new builds that are more diverse and fun to play with. If you start to change gear, traits, weapons it won’t make it more interesting just more bothersome. You would still need to use whatever build is considered the optimal for the content, or whatever the raid leader tells you to use. Only difference is, with build locking you’ll do it once and be done with it, with switching around you’ll end up doing it after every fight, you’ll end up staring the ui instead of the instance.

DevilLordLaser.8619:

If that’s the game working as intended, then oh well for me, I suppose. I just wish there was more room for, y’know…casual play, in the MMO touted by developers and reviewers alike as the greatest bastion of casual MMO players on the Internet.

That my friend, died, the day raids were announced. Things changed.

Seera.5916:

And who knows, the raids currently may not need a ton of gear/build swapping around from boss to boss for non-speed runners.

That, simply, cannot, happen. Raids were brought in the game to satisfy the needs of the hardcore crowd. If build swapping is allowed, you can bet your important personal asset that it will be required. If it’s not, then those who tailor made their builds, will find minimal challenge in the whole affair and after a while the complaints will start. How arena net didn’t offer what was asked. To top it off, if it’s not required to finish the content that means casuals will be able to do it also, further devaluing an already devalued aspect of the game and raids will be considered another “failure”.

Understand this please, hard and challenging content -cannot- be completed by the majority of the players in the game, if it does, it simply isn’t challenging. Content like that is there for the few, those who will put in the time, effort and persistence. It’s like asking for everyone on the pvp ladder to be able to reach the top tier. It cannot happen. It devalues the thing. Please don’t ask for raids to cater to the 10 strangers who met at queensdale and decided to go raiding.

Ok I Did It.2854:

Why do you think Legendary Armor is coming, so that builds can be changed on the fly, to make people change from zerker god mode only, this will also be backed by the new fractal system which will force people to change builds,

The entire skill/trait system is designed so that you have to adapt to the current battle, locking skills/traits would be a bad move and completely against the current, trait/skill setup system.

Because if the reward isn’t percieved as worthy, we’d all do the challenging content once or twice for the experience, and then maybe once a month when we’re bored and that’s that. Now dangle that legendary armour in front of our faces and watch us grind that baby for the new shinies.

If the company seriously doesn’t want the dps role to be the only role there is, then maybe they shouldn’t keep designing stuff that only need dps to go down. Build locking or not doesn’t matter. They’ve already spoken about a soft trinity of support control and dps. They still haven’t told us exactly how they imagine that would work, but, build anarchy isn’t the answer. If you think build locking will force everyone into zerker, I say build anarchy will force people into that one dps meta build that the number crunchers will produce. Not to mention the constant pain of switching this for that, put that in leave that out, the nagging on mummble cause someone forgot one skill or trait or whatever. It actually goes against their own statement that we shouldn’t be staring at the UI. Switching builds constantly is exactly that.

Locking classes and traits is the absolute minimum they can do to make this challenging, to allow the oportunity for the good players to distinguish themselves from the poor, and to come up with new more flexible builds for our raiding, instead of the super specialized, we’ll end up with build anarchy.

Seera.5916:

I’d rather quit midway because it’s too difficult for the group I’m in with the intent to try again later with the same group or a different group than quit midway just to change builds to try again without knowing if the new build is good enough for my group to make it through to the end of the raid.

Then wait 2 weeks for the guide to come out. Don’t know what else to tell you, really.

Seera.5916:

Doesn’t mean there won’t be PUG groups and I never said it would be easy for them or not.

They may get completely turned off of raids if they get halfway through several hours later only to be forced to have to restart the raid to change their build to adjust their strategy.

And is that something we should be wanting for this game?

I’m going to be honest with you here.

This is something that I, personally, didn’t ask or want for this game (I = me, myself as an individual)

However it’s here whether we like it or not. And it’s here because people asked for it.
We asked for it. We got it. And along with it legendary armor. So now that it’s here, I want it to be what it was asked and promised. Hard and challenging. So yes, that’s something we not only want for this game, that’s something we have been asking for. (We = the community, or at least a large portion of it, if colin and the people in the forums tell the truth)

Straylight.7529:

The guardians of the galaxy were also random strangers who met on a chance encounter and they saved the galaxy!

touché!

I stand corrected

Seera.5916:

So a group of casual players who are strangers decide to do a raid for the first time and enter it with their current builds. They don’t care about efficiency so they don’t check the guides before starting. They are not casuals due to time available to play.

They get into the raid and they’re progressing slowly. They’ve wiped some but they’re learning the tricks. They’re about 2 hours into and they realize they can beat the current boss if they had more stability. Unfortunately, the only way to do this is to change up their builds.

Oh wait, they’re build locked. They’ll have to leave the raid and come back in, in order to change their build. Group decides to just disband as they don’t want to have to repeat the past two hours worth of work for a possible two hours more in the raid. As they have no idea how long the raid is.

But without the build locking, a few of them can swap out to offer more stability and the group defeats the boss and finishes the raid in about 4 hours from start to finish.

Which scenario would you prefer? The one where a group of casuals has to restart midway through the raid just to switch builds to be able to complete the content at the group’s skill level? Or one where the group of casuals can change their build up in order to complete the content at the group’s skill level?

I know I prefer the latter. No one likes being forced to waste time. It’s like when you stupidly forget to save a game after defeating a hard boss only for the power to blip and you lose it.

I’m sorry, did you just said that a group of 10 complete strangers decide to go raiding one night? I thought we were talking about the super hard challenging content people were asking for soooo long. This post is for that content.

Honestly speaking 10 random strangers shouldn’t be able to progress at all in there. They shouldn’t expect any reasonable progress in their first attempts, when they don’t even know the mechanics, their attempt would only be for laughs and giggles.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

I don’t understand why it’s bad to have the option to swap builds.

Because when you allow for it, it’s not an option anymore. It’s a necessity. Cause one of 2 things will happen, either the content will not require it, and thus when you switch you’ll trivialize it, or it will require it, and thus by not switching you’re becoming a burden in your team.

Straylight.7529:

Have they given reasons why they won’t do dual-specs?

And what do you mean with “requires skill with your build”? Do you mean encounters that require a player to take certain synergizing talents or he/she won’t be able to beat the encounter?

Iirc they said that it would require lots of work on the technical side of things, and it would be difficult to implement in a meaningful way at this time.

Skill with one’s build. I mean to know what to do when, when to dodge and when to dps, to have that instinct on what to do at any moment to get the max out of your build. Theoretically with a very active boss that for each time you do combat with “chooses” different mehcanics from a larger pool, that would be your skill that comes into play. Does that makes sense?

Straylight.7529:

If the act of swapping itself is what annoys you then maybe allowing players to save different builds and item loadouts might be a solution.

On the other hand if you think players should not be allowed to swap once they enter the dungeon/raid in order to create an additional layer of challenge than that would be more difficult to address.

Yes swapping pre made templates alleviates lots of the sillyness of the thing. but they’ve made it clear that we’ll get no “dual specks” or template savers …

Plus maybe they’ll design something interesting that requires skill with your build instead of swapping around stuff. There’s nothing challenging about that. With build locking they might make the raid dance more interesting

Palador.2170:

Changing your traits is easy. But when you need to change your gear as well, then you’re looking at a time sink. A big one if you want ascended gear. Gold sink, too. This will slow down raiders and make it harder without requiring bosses far stronger than anything GW2 should have. It’s a way to turn two hours of content into dozens of hours of focused play.

You make a good argument, but what you’re describing there, doesn’t sound, fun, challenging or anything really, but a chore.

If they go down that road, raids will probably fail (opinion, for the easily confused, i’m no prophet).

by not having to change everything around, they can make the fights more intresting and engaging instead of “we’re approaching the condition vuln boss. everybody switch up”

but you’re probably right, still, it’s worth the effort

Now that raids are coming to the game, can we please add some build locking into them?

The last thing we need is having to go through the same thing we ’re going through in the fractals were people switch around traits, gear, abilities and weapons from boss to boss.

Or even worst classes. There’s nothing challenging about that, it’s just a massive annoyance that you have to do before each fight.

Can the raids we get, build/class lock you when you enter, so people can enjoy the content without changing stuff around all the time.

Slapinator.4196:

Guys let’s try not to lead this thread in different direction than what the OP said about, organized groups possibly kicking casual players. The conversation we are currently doing has already been done TWICE led nowhere and the thread was locked.

Well, that’s easy. This most certainly will happen if the raids get access to the lfg tool. Just as it already happens when you get into a fractal with the “wrong” class.

We should be discussing other more interesting questions like…

how are they going to pull off the soft trinity of control – support – dps

how are they going to balance the classes so that we don’t end up with class stigma like we did with dungeons

how are they going to accomodate the pvp and wvw communities who get 1 or 0 legendary items when the raiding community gets 6

how good can it be for the games economy to have players with armour that switches stat sets and thus no need to craft new stuff

Todd.6573:

For those of us that enjoy a challenge – We should be awarded for completing harder content, as such, unique skins and LOOKS is a perfectly acceptable reward.

Since the ultimate challenge is to overcome another human controlled oponent, in a consistent manner, how is it that you get unique skins and LOOKS but the folks at the top tier of pvp, get a lousy backpack. You get 6 slots, they get one. You better than them?

maddoctor.2738:

And yes 3 hour raids are fine. Until you learn how to do them and do them in 20 minutes. Amount of time required is relative. Took me 4 hours to finish Arah P4 the first time, now I do it in 30-40 minutes.

No, for me they are not fine at all. Not even as a learning experience. Different tastes for different people.

And if I wanted to raid, as you said, I would play wow. So I hope they will implement something more fun and enjoyable than raids. We’ll find out this saturday.

Devata.6589:

Then why not suggest a VOIP function inside the game or (if needed) better LFG tools, but I really think that part is already covered ingame. Guilds and LFG can have that function. Maybe more space for guilds to put information ingame might also be helpful or an NPC near the entrance that it’s information gets updated based on the GW2 wiki so it can also explain required tactics.

The only thing I can suggest, is that they don’t implement content that requires out of game tools to be completed. It seems more logical to first add the tools to do the content, and then the content itself. Not the other way around.

phys.7689:

stop thinking of yourself as a non elite player. You can beat everything they will make. Peoples beef hedges on the idea that they cant do this new content. As long as it doesnt require a whole slew of players (which isnt about challenge btw) you will be able to beat it.

and rightfully so. Based on experience gained from other games, raiding requires out of game tools like teamspeak. Add to that the need for an organised group and you can see how someone who just doesn’t want to use out of game tools or plays solo primarily, might find this new content unbeatable unless it can be lfg’d by pugs and without the use of external tools. Or if this content requires huge chunks of time which some players do not have. Imagine a 3 hour raid.

So the fears people have, are not unfounded. Kind words serve no purpose here.

Let’s just wait until saturday when more will be revealed and then we can have a proper discussion about the whole affair. We don’t know enough just yet. But the fears are not unfounded.

phys.7689:

And yeah i think people would still want the non effect version. Footsteps isnt intrinsically better than no footsteps. Its subjective. A whole lot of the obsidian armor didnt look that good in GW1 and people wanted it for years and years.

But its interesting, your basically saying someone who earned something through overcoming whatever tasks the game set forth, shouldnt be able to have an item with a little star on the chest? or get to choose a digit to place on the sleeve?
I guess you dont feel they should be able to visually diffrentiate themselves in anyway at all?

Good then, we’ve reached and agreement already. The really unique stuff that would drop from the super extra hard difficult content would be drab and ugly, and only the people who were there could yield them. While the flashy no substance version would be yieldable by the people who never did the content. That way you could differentiate easily.

It is indeed interesting in what i’m saying. I’m saying that the content should be doable by most people should they apply the time to do it. And not hidden behind the elusive term skill. Without out of game tools like voice communication and without a dedicated group to the task at hand. Sure the players who are in a hurry can get it faster with their ts and guild groups, but it should also be content that can be done without those things provided the person going for that actually tries and applies the time necessary to learn what he’s supposed to do. So if we’re going to have exclusivity, I’d love it if accessibility would go hand in hand with that. And it would be in the spirit of the game also. Plus a pvp track with the same rewards for the pvp people.

phys.7689:

which sounds more like fear of persecution than an actual desire for items.

Which doesnt invalidate your concerns, but i wouldnt nec say it justifies not having any means of distinguishing what a player has accomplished. Anyhow, you dont have to worry, i doubt anet would do it, as a formal system.

edit
ok, to avoid persecution, but still have diffrentiation,
special effect that randomly triggers on kill.
and, in the item description, it is signed by whomever created/got the drop.

So Hidden blade Of Death that got made TPable, is signed .Maddoctor
and the orginal might randomly cause a special visual effect when he kills an enemy.

unique, not something easily observable, but a nice bonus and reason to hunt unique items, that the players can see and enjoy.

Let me reverse the question for you.

Let’s say that the item you get is very bland and ugly. But the tp version is awesome and has cool effects on it. Imagine you getting twilight without the afterimages attached to it. No footsteps, no cool curves when you swing. So the people who buy it on the TP get the cool effects, and you get the bland and ugly one, yet trully unique and a sign of your achievement. Every time you swing that baby everyone knows it’s the real deal. While the other guy with the glows is just a copy cat. Would that be acceptable to you?

Would you think that the game gave you a stigmatized version? Even when such stigma would have a positive connotation and would clearly indicate to everyone how good you are?

phys.7689:

Ok heres what i got.
certain items are account bound, BUT
you can earn (through various content, with high rarity or grind or time lock but would require some type of targeted play) a sellers liscence.

Sellers liscense makes a knockoff of the account bound item. There will be a visibile diffrence, it may be color, the orginal may say number 1 on it, and the knockoff number 2, A star on the weapon pommel, something not too crazy, but its there.

This allows people to sell items, and decide an items value, but it puts a limit on how many will be the market, and automatically makes getting the item directly the best way to get, as well as maintaining a small uniqueness factor.

This would of course generally be useful only for items that require a lot of effort, or skill, that are account bound.

that said, this would require them creating a bunch of new systems, item variations, and i doubt they d want to do that.

And that serves what purpose, other than to separate the player base in an extremely artificial and ugly way? Who would buy the lesser version with the “you bought it on the TP” stigma mark on it. You don’t want to find a solution that’s acceptable by both groups. You’re just searching for extra ways to humiliate the “unskilled” players. Not only you want the cool skin on you to boast on LA, you want everyone else who doesn’t have the skill to have a stigmatized version so everyone would know how much of a bad player they are?

It’s comments like this that have me believe that if you guys could, you’d have non hardcore players (whatever that means) dressed in rags and publicly ridiculed in the game word in regular intervals.

Good thing we’re the “friendliest community” huh?

Cosmetic treadmill sounds like paradise compared to your vision.

Torolan.5816:

maddoctor.2738:

A question to everyone that is watching this thread:
What’s your opinion on time-exclusive rewards?

For example, challenging group content might reward SKINA, for a limited time, until players beat it, until players reach a certain speed, or simply after a set amount of time (or any other system really), that exclusive stops being exclusive and is added to other types of content. Then, another piece of exclusive reward is added to new content and the cycle continues.

Do you find that satisfying as a hardcore player? Do you find that satisfying as a casual player?

I think that is probably the best solution.

One vote from me too on that one. It’s a great compromise as long as the time frames are right, not too short or too long so both groups feel happy about it.

Most casuals are doing things in their own pace anyways so time for them isn’t an issue. They can wait or prepare for it. And most hardcore players would probably enjoy the challenge of having a deadline to acquire the skin before it loses some of its value (and maybe a cool title/achievement to help ’em along).

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Which is why America the beacon of hope to many.

Best joke I’ve read in these forums in a long time.

Vlad Morbius.1759:

This is a very slippery slope which usually leads to nothing more than harsher forms of elitism. This game like most every other mmorpg before has already established meta’s that preclude many types of players, classes, gear etc. and the last thing it needs is more of the same. I always laugh at how many people cry for seriously challenging gaming and most of the ones designed specifically for that minority die out quite quickly, I’m looking at you Wildstar. Granted I’m not for or against just recognizing it for what it really is.
Anyway I will reserve further judgment until I hear there proposal for this but I see this as just another divisive element being introduced.

QFT

Devildoc.6721:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/pre-purchase-community-address/

See, this is what we needed. Transparent communication

A fair value for both veterans and new players.

An honest refund policy for those who bought between the expansion announcement and misleading FAQ posting and now.

A clear statement on their future vision for expansions (now, remember to commit to this statement Arenanet.)

a good start, we’ll still need to see the details but at least they addressed this issue.

i can say i feel content. especially if the details come out soon with a release date

but for now let’s enjoy our small victory

thrag.9740:

Ok, so when you did that collective effort, spending your money, you got the items from the gem shop, and you got ls2. While new players can spend that same amount of money right now, and will get the gem shop items, and nothing else. That’s why I am saying vets did get something extra.

that’s what i’m saying, that new players SHOULDN’T pay for LS2 cause we already payed for that. That’s not vets getting something extra, that’s ANet double dipping but this time AGAINST the new comers. That content has been funded already, them charging for it, is just plain greed on their part. Read my post again. Nothing is extra, it’s just them double dipping nothing else. LS should have been free from the get go.

thrag.9740:

Ok let me put it like this. If you bought gw2 2 weeks ago, you would have to buy ls2 if you wanted it. If you bought gw2 1 years ago, you unlocked those chapters without paying extra. So as you can see, the same action and the same amount of money, gave different results just based on when you did it.

You spending money on gems to buy things other than ls2, and then also getting ls2, is not the same as new players spending money on gems to buy ls2. You chose to spend money on the things in that store.

Yeaps, they’re double dipping on the new players. Because that content is already payed for by the vets, just like they’re double dipping on the prepurchase, and want veteran players to repurchase the game without actually getting the game a second time. That’s why we’re calling their practice unethical. They’re fleecing us. Only difference is new players don’t know it yet, cause they haven’t join the community, veterans felt it as the skin left their backs.

Silly argument. You chose to spend money. And? I chose to spend money and that money has value, not for me but for everyone. That’s the idea. That my choice shares value with everyone. Just like every other gem purchase. They share value with me. Thus -not free-. but bought and payed. Choosing to pay doesn’t detract from the value of the payment i’m afraid.

And if you have trouble getting this, if everybody didn’t spend a dime to get gems, the game would shut down. Simple as that. Its survival is depending upon the fact that people will buy gems. Thus absolutely nothing in there is for free. As i explained earlier, collective effort.

Solori.6025:

So have they responded to this buzz yet or can we just label this concern and the veteran players dust under the rug?

dust under the rug