Guild Wars 2

I would never have guessed someone who complains as much as Ithilwin would be in the Army.

People should be free to make bad decisions. If this causes you too much stress then cut out the stupid by running with friends.

Even Tranquility is useless compared to Stillness. You are free to disagree.

Bear in mind OP the end goal is to have each class have three or more elite specs. It doesn’t matter whether or not Thief and Warrior are balanced around base specs because in the future they won’t matter. Going forward Thief and Warrior need to have their bases buffed. They are the only base classes that objectively can’t compete with elite specializations.

Old Meta was “Bads complaining about not being able to kill anything.”

New Meta will be “Bads complaining about being killed by everything.”

Aren’t enough for bads to be able to sit on their keyboards and kill the build? I don’t get it. Mesmer got castrated, Arena.net could be charged with war crimes.

Yeah, no. This patch caters to bad players and continues to dumb down the game.

The thing stopping Fresh Air from being viable isn’t the fact that other builds are better, it is that you can fart on a Fresh Air elementalist and kill it.

I look forward to being the most survivable thing on the battle field though as a Marauder Powermancer.

Wow, you make me cringe.

Reducing Chill up time may very well end up being a thing but it will hamstring power builds who exploit that Chill not for damage but to hold people still long enough to hit them. Its obvious you don’t play Powermancer. Reducing Chill up time is also an inadvertent nerf to Greatsword. The animations are very slow and it is still workable though thanks to Chill.

You say Reaper should still be as vulnerable to CC as vanilla Necromancer. This is just patently false. Reaper is still highly vulnerable to CC and the main reason it needs Stability while vanilla Necro didn’t is because we are always in people’s faces. We face tank a lot and unlike vanilla Necro we don’t have the luxury of doing it from 600 meters away.

Life Force regen is fine, and it is just barely enough to squeeze out a win against competent players when you start with none.

Its nice you want to give suggestions, but there is really only one suggestion here I find necessary. L2P.

HoT wasn’t a conspiracy to shake up the Meta… This game is primarily an MMO.

You have a few options, all way more productive then crying on the forums.

- Practice in Unranked, just a couple of games.
– Continue doing what you are doing, those hate tells are meaningless.
– Make an actual 4 or 5-man group.

I was gone most of the Season, just started serious play again a week ago. I find the prospect of losing “Pips” exhilarating. I’m already in Sapphire (when I left I remember people insisting everyone would be stuck in Emerald and I was only there for a week). But by all means, lets dumb down the PvP experience so your friend doesn’t get hate tells. There is salt, and a mail function, use it and move on.

Of course the Mesmer is upset about a possible buff to Necromancer.

Mesmer is hard to play. I can’t land Mesmer burst to save my life, possibly because I try to play it like Warrior or Necromancer though.

Mesmer needs a bit of a trim. One Mesmer is fine but much like Elementalist two Mesmers are just way to much. Their usefulness shouldn’t increase exponentially by doubling the number of Mesmers. Of course it doesn’t look like Arena.net will try to address this and is acting like one Mesmer is broken… when in fact it is the double Mesmer that is broken.

The reason people are trying to crucify Mesmer is because people can’t accept that others are better at their class then they are at theirs. This game community can’t handle having to adjust what they do based on the enemy they are facing, frankly I am surprised the community has made it this long with so many classes.

Almost every MMO I’ve played I kept track of cool downs in my head. This game is no different.

What makes a game esportz is an audience. This game doesn’t have one. We know, we get it. Everyone knows this game isn’t esports – even Arena.net. Make the PvP more like traditional MMO PvP I say.

They aren’t going to nerf Celestial (shaved, maybe).

Scrubs will always cry when competent players aren’t as easy to kill as they think they should be. If Celestial was removed next players would start complaining about 4 stat amulets. Marauder (my favorite amulet) is after all, just Berzerkers for scrubs.

You let a couple of bad players get their responses in to your post.

Serious Thought.5394:

Thief players so no to auto attack buffs- SHUSH. Take your buffs, and be happy. If you say no, we won’t receive buffs. GAAAH.

Good Thieves will do well with even this small change. Bad Thieves will never do well again.

Bad Thieves will continue to insist everyone else is being carried by their class, though.

Ohoni.6057:

Unranked is more rewarding anyway, you’re somehow able to win far more often there than ranked. You won’t get the ranked exclusive goodies but at least you’ll have faster reward track progression.

The only reason to PvP is to get the Ascension wings. Anything that does not progress the relevant achievements is a waste of time that could be spent actually playing the core game outside the Mists.

I think its pretty clear by the amount of people opposed to this idea vs those for it in this thread that anet is choosing the more popular of the routes.

Lol. It’s very sad how many people actual believe statements like that. I weep for our school systems. For future reference, and your own sanity, take a look into how statistics works before posting similar statements again.

PvPers play to PvP. PvP is both an end and the means.

I know a PvEer must find it baffling that content can actually be good enough to not require a carrot. We don’t need these Achievements and we don’t need these wings to continue to PvP.

Darknicrofia.2604:

*statistics in this scenario meaning whatever I want is obviously the majority opinion, despite evidence to the contrary.

Ohoni is quick to call people out on assuming that forums or even people posting in a thread are a representative sample but I’ve never seen him cite any real data for his opinions. I doubt there is any real data supporting either side outside of circumstantial information – because no one cares.

Yeah, I really want all these bad players who die to Gunflame, Ranger Pets, Trap Guardians, and need four guys to kill an Elementalist in this thread to have a say in the balance changes. Not.

Good on Arena.net for the measured PR post. Hopefully the changes are just as measured as the Goals. I do not envy them having to balance their game around this game’s player base.

Envy is a curious thing. People are playing the game having fun and then when they see that there is something that they can’t get they are upset and cease to have fun.

Back pieces are inconsequential stat wise. No build will be made or broken by legendary back pieces. It doesn’t matter that PvP is necessary for a legendary back piece because the back piece is unnecessary. PvP Achievements are few and far between and also unnecessary to unlock Achievement gear.

It must suck to measure your life by what you don’t have.

Or you are doing well with a poor build.

What season 1 taught us is a large number of players think Legendary Rank should be achieved in a couple of days of casual solo play.

Something tells me it is way too easy to get into Ruby. Not saying Wells can’t work… but even if they are working for the OP that just means there are five scrubs on the enemy team who shouldn’t be in Ruby.

EDIT: Oh WOW… those traits…

Solo Que exists… it’s called Unranked.

Terrorsquad.4802:

Schurge.5194:

@Vieux P @Cynz

Lets break it down.

Guild Wars 2
– PvP requires absolutely no investment from the player.
– There is no way to gain a stat advantage over other players.

Blade and Soul
– Requires player investment to PvP (grinding to max level to PvP).
– PvP is secondary. Their English website advertises dueling and that’s it. It is news to me they even have organized PvP much less the much vaunted “solo que.”

- I wouldnt call 3 days playing “grinding to max level”, because yes, that’s all it takes to be lv45.
- If its news to you they have organized PvP then you did not do any research. BnS has been in the esports scene in Korea, China and Japan since 2013. I cannot believe if you even searched, it wouldn’t be found.

BnS excists out of 1v1 and 3v3 arenas, you can queue Solo or as a party through Team Queue’ing. The game also has leagues; Bronze Star, Silver Star and Golden (not sure if there’s any higher since highest on EU/NA Alpha/CBT’s was Gold Star.

Dueling is done outside PvP, in PvE. Here’s where “best gear” wins.
Same with Faction Wars, which is done in an Area found in PvE but its kind of the same as WvW.

Also, rank in the game is based per character, not account.
So basically BnS is even more organised than GW2.

If you want to see organised PvP right now, one of the best BnS PvP’ers is streaming right now: http://www.twitch.tv/lsjjws3

Yes, the same people who complain about Gunflame and can’t contest a point with a Dragon Hunter on it will totally do well in a competitive 1v1 bracket.

I am not saying Blade and Soul PvP won’t be or isn’t good… I’m saying all these whiners who can’t hack it here certainly can’t hack it in Blade and Soul or Black Desert by virtue of the kinds of games they are.

@Vieux P @Cynz

Lets break it down.

Guild Wars 2
– PvP requires absolutely no investment from the player.
– There is no way to gain a stat advantage over other players.

Blade and Soul
– Requires player investment to PvP (grinding to max level to PvP).
– PvP is secondary. Their English website advertises dueling and that’s it. It is news to me they even have organized PvP much less the much vaunted “solo que.”

Black Desert
– Requires player investment to PvP (both level and gear grind).
– Forced PvP and stealing from other players.
– Steeper death penalties then having to run back to where you died.

A lot of people will leave this game and enjoy those games… None of them are on here talking about how they are going to leave though. The people who are saying they will leave are the same people who whine about every perceived imbalance in the game and are up in arms every time Arena.net introduces something that players have to work for. What are they going to do when they run into their first animation canceler? Whine to daddy that the game is unfair like they do with every class but Thief / Warrior in this game?

I find it hilarious that the carebears in this game think Blade and Soul or Black Desert will be their new home.

Trash talk is a big part of PvP and while I am sure there are some dedicated PvPers who hate it I feel most competitive players like it. Some people take trash talk to far and get personal but I’d rather play a game where I’m occasionally told to go kill myself then a game where people are too afraid to even boast-troll.

That said the OP should probably play a different game mode. His examples were extremely tame and impersonal in nature. They hardly count as abuse. Put a helmet on.

Change the PvP game mode and you will see more build diversity and more diverse team comps. PvP… players killing players… is balanced in this game… Conquest is what gives undue value to what would otherwise be useless specs and invalidates an untold number of builds that are good at player killing.

Considering how receptive the community is to new game modes (Courtyard, Capture the Flag, Stronghold) it won’t happen.

No.

/FifteenCharacters

If you are better then me don’t patronize me by telling me I put up a good fight…

Lol…

Because people are totally using cash to buy the three gold so they can buy their off-brand runes.

Add progression and all of a sudden what PvPers preferred to do despite the lack of rewards suddenly becomes a mindless chore.

I’d say this was a problem if you were in Amber… but come on you are Sapphire… you honestly expect to get Legendary soloing? At a certain point you will get as far as you can go alone.

naphack.9346:

Vague Memory.2817:

In a lot of matches I’m been playing the one thing that stands out are DH pretty much the deciding factor in winning whether they are on my team or not. In mid fights I’m seeing their traps and true shot downing 2 and sometimes 3 players on the opposing team. They are tanky as hell and dish out obscene damage. Some of their utility traps do more damage than the chrono elite gravity well which they are able to rotate at a good frequency. Why is this acceptable?

Pretty much every single game where there were 3 DH on the opponent’s team, I have won easily.
Any DH is a lacking support class that can keep that very DH alive.

Even two Dragon Hunters is pushing it in pre-made vs. pre-made fights… and some of the easiest fights I’ve had were against people who stacked four Dragon Hunters.

OH MY GOODNESS IT’S SPREAD!

AtomsOrSystems.9420:

Schurge.5194:

The thing is, I don’t expect to get past Emerald… and if I were to attempt to get past Emerald I would want a more regular team. I didn’t realize people this casual expected to max this kitten out. If you go back four months you will find threads on this forum predicting that most players would be stuck in the middling tiers with the truly terrible at the bottom and the dedicated pushing through to the top.

Even before, if you wanted a better then 60% win rate you needed a team or incredible luck. Just because everything else in PvP is just given to you through the virtue of time doesn’t mean the Legendary nameplate will be. There are broken things that will be fixed but this is day three and “I refuse to use TS” Joe Blow was never the target of Leagues.

Thing is, I don’t buy that “real life prevents me from having a regular team to pvp with” is so casual that we shouldn’t be able to advance past the very beginning of the second tier. I have no illusions about being a masterful PvP player, but when the only thing keeping me from advancing past “beginner” is apparently solo-q matchmaking, that’s a legitimate kittening gripe. Particularly when I see the streamers who are some of the best PvPers facing the same issue, if they solo-queue.

Like I said, I’ve made my peace with it. But it’s disheartening. And frankly, I think it’s unreasonable. Differing opinons, I guess.

I consider myself to be a “masterful” PvPer and I am fine with the game labeling me as beginner. It has always been my experience that “Ranked,” “Rated,” or what-have-you is for dedicated players who put the time and effort into working as a team.

I mostly run yolo guild groups so my win-rate isn’t much better then what I would have if I solo-queued Unranked. I don’t resent the system because it values one type of player over another. Hopefully MMR will be taken out of the Ranked match-making so matches are more fun for all (and as an aside getting out of Emerald will be easier) however “No Headset Sam” and “PvX Sally” will stay (as they should) in the kitten tier.

Leagues shouldn’t be seen as a grind or even a ladder that we all work our way up. Leagues could just as easily be an invisible set of tiers – something we are unaware of. Everyone will get stuck somewhere. Some adjustments may very well be in order if most people who actually put forth an effort get stuck too soon but the vast majority should never make it to the top.

Zodi.8932:

Schurge.5194:

Zodi.8932:

I have played both Power build and condi on my Rev and I can safely say Condi has nothing on Power. In Condi you die to fast and lose the ability to buff the party. Guy who made this post is just a troll. On top of that I rarely ever see Condi Revs. Dragonhunters on the other hand there are about 3-4 per game.

If you want to talk seriously about nerfs then Dragonhunter is in serious need of one. Long before anyone else

Neither the Dragon Hunter or the Revanant are in “serious need” of nerfs. Most of the people who frequent the forums are in serious need of “learning to play.”

The Dragonhunter not needing a nerf argument is the biggest lie around. I rolled A Dragonhunter and having never played it before steam rolled the opposing teams just by spamming traps and bow skills.

If your argument back to me is the typical: Dodge traps or move away then clearly you dont know that Dragonhunter has 2 pulls to keep you trapped inside

I did the same on my Mallyx / Herald (Marauder) Revenant winning 1vX not knowing what I was doing. I’ve yet to try the Dragon Hunter but I don’t doubt I would face roll people with it too.

People will learn to deal with conditions about the same time they learn to dodge into nodes when Dragon Hunters are about… which is never as condi-burst has been around three years longer then DH traps.

Zodi.8932:

I have played both Power build and condi on my Rev and I can safely say Condi has nothing on Power. In Condi you die to fast and lose the ability to buff the party. Guy who made this post is just a troll. On top of that I rarely ever see Condi Revs. Dragonhunters on the other hand there are about 3-4 per game.

If you want to talk seriously about nerfs then Dragonhunter is in serious need of one. Long before anyone else

Neither the Dragon Hunter or the Revanant are in “serious need” of nerfs. Most of the people who frequent the forums are in serious need of “learning to play.”

SteepledHat.1345:

Schurge.5194:

/g Anyone want to group up for PVP?

- Me!
- Me 2!

/g LF 2 more for PVP!

- I’m a bunker Elementalist, is that good?

/g Yes we need a bunker. LF 1 support or DPS for PvP!

- I’m a Mallyx / Herald.

/p Okay guys, hop down to Alpha Team in teamspeak.

---

You guys kill me. It is that easy. It does not require any time commitment to run with groups and be semi-competitive.

Alright friend, you sure it’s gonna be that easy when you’re stuck in emerald hell in few weeks? Or when every team wants full rep, guild allocation, and scheduled matches?

The thing is, I don’t expect to get past Emerald… and if I were to attempt to get past Emerald I would want a more regular team. I didn’t realize people this casual expected to max this kitten out. If you go back four months you will find threads on this forum predicting that most players would be stuck in the middling tiers with the truly terrible at the bottom and the dedicated pushing through to the top.

Even before, if you wanted a better then 60% win rate you needed a team or incredible luck. Just because everything else in PvP is just given to you through the virtue of time doesn’t mean the Legendary nameplate will be. There are broken things that will be fixed but this is day three and “I refuse to use TS” Joe Blow was never the target of Leagues.

Coyote.7031:

I try to res people, but the new HoT zones are deadly it’s easy to get yourself killed if you aren’t careful. If I don’t res it’s often because I don’t think the situation is safe enough to try. I may hang around kill a few mobs and then pet people, but people don’t always wait and way point.

And honestly I don’t think the community changed any. No matter what anyone says, I always feel that GW2 had the worst community I’ve experienced since LoL. And I have tried a lot of MMOs. The difference only being it’s “easy” to be nice in GW2. It’s easy to stop and res someone or help them kill a mob, and you get rewarded for doing so. If wasn’t rewarding, you wouldn’t often see people willing to help. And with HoT zones difficult to traverse, it’s not worth it to most players to come help you unless they also need the trait point.

1000 times this.

The thing I say most often in TS these days is “one coming home, another Viper Revenant who thinks he is pro, I should be good” followed by “whats with all these Viper Revanants thinking they’re pro?”

More time practicing less time complaining should fix your issues.

bigblah.3285:

“Can I have your stuff” ought to be an insta-ban.

I seriously could use his gold though. Need to buy more bondage skins.

@ OP

Can I have your gold?

/g Anyone want to group up for PVP?

- Me!
- Me 2!

/g LF 2 more for PVP!

- I’m a bunker Elementalist, is that good?

/g Yes we need a bunker. LF 1 support or DPS for PvP!

- I’m a Mallyx / Herald.

/p Okay guys, hop down to Alpha Team in teamspeak.

You guys kill me. It is that easy. It does not require any time commitment to run with groups and be semi-competitive.

@abc is so pro no one is willing to play with him. Or something.

@SamTheGuardian

Leagues are more casual friendly though for those interested in Ranked play. I run CASUAL pre-mades almost exclusively and up until now we never did Ranked because frankly our rotations are often kitten. Leagues separate Ranked into several tiers of players so my bring what you want 3-5man can square off against other casual teams (which is what my experience with Leagues has been thus far… I’ve yet to go against a group with more then two pug players). The nature of how I play will keep me in Emerald and Sapphire and the nature of how more hardcore teams play will keep them in Ruby and Diamond.

However, those dissatisfied with Leagues are mainly upset that they can’t yolo-solo their way to victory hence I say go play Unranked.

As for the psychological effect of those prestige nameplates I can only speak for myself. I really don’t care about them, I am not embarrassed about currently being in Amber tier I felt no urge upon first logging in and seeing all the fancy new nameplates to get one of my own.

Burn Guardian, LB/GS Ranger, Cele-Sig Necromancer, D/D Elementalist, Shoutbow Warrior, Rifle + Elixir Engineer, P/U Mesmer, and D/P Thief are all still competitive (though with the exception of Burn Guardian, LB/GS Ranger, and Cele-Sig Necromancer you could do better with those builds if you used the Elite Traitline).

I am sure many more still are viable but just not competitive. The only class I play besides my Reaper is my Warrior and I still use my vanilla Axe / Axe + GS (Stances + Rampage) build to limited success depending on team composition but while viable it certainly isn’t competitive (at least not in my hands) and I only break it out when I want something more fast paced then my Reaper and I am playing alone.

If you feel inferior because you don’t actually try to do well in Ranked (which means gasp queing up with groups) that’s on you not the game. Unranked exists for a reason. There is no shame in playing Unranked and while being in a high division will open doors for you I doubt casual players are interested in those doors.

I honestly don’t know what anyone expected Leagues to be just as I don’t know what people expected HoT to be… none of this is a surprise. The League system brings GW2 PvP more into line with traditional MMO PvP… I haven’t played any of those Esports titles you mentioned from Blizzard but they aren’t MMOs and PvP is naturally structured differently in those types of games.

@UBcktieDL

Nothing is preventing you from making new PvP related relationships in this game.

RANKED. Calm your fat deposits! If you don’t have four friends then Unranked is that way. No shame in Unranked.

I’m so Pro my Reaper build is 30/30/30/30/30!

Is it really a better community when you have very little reason to communicate and the majority of content can’t be failed due to one or two clueless players? Same goes for SW:TOR – the vast majority of it is solo-able and you are so wrapped up in your own storyline it is like other players aren’t even there. In both of these games you don’t need others – let alone need them to do well for most content.

Star Wars: Galaxies had a great community and it was a very “selfish” game from a player stand point. Not only that but there were no safe zones and you were free to verbally harass your opponents or even prevent them from playing – it just rarely happened as players needed each other.

Silverkey.2078:

If you look at the PvE daily, one of them is like “XXX event completer”. So obviously the goal is to ensure all their PvE maps are played from time to time. Same thing with the class daily. They probably want to encourage all classes to be played by most.

Well, their plan isn’t working… only PvP daily I don’t cheat on is my Necromancer.