Guild Wars 2

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Ruien.9506:

Once again a company gives into the whiniest people to have ever stepped foot on planet earth. I just cant understand why these companies cant figure out that dumbing content to the lowest common denominator(read: adverage WoW casual) means that these people get what they want and leave within a month. Then the people who enjoy a challenge leave in the same month because guess what? Theres no challenge.

Oh well give in to them I guess. Its where the money is. Well at least till their ADHD kicks in and they move to the next shiny game.

edit: if your going to make this change at the very very least put the tokens on the last boss of a wing .

Nobody is forcing you to play.

It’s about time. Thank you.

Now when can we expect to get some numbers on how many tokens will drop? Will you be aiming at less than 30 runs of a place? Will you adjust it so that more difficult runs drop more tokens?

bwillb.2165:

But I think these are mostly people that came here from WoW and will be leaving in a few days anyway, even though they’ll be back a few weeks later when they’re out of interesting stuff to do in mop.

And what will you do in 3 days when nothing changes? Will you invent a new scapegoat for the game’s vitriolic community?

riku.2091:

Science.4207:

Crisu, why would we do that when map chat in every zone in this game is just as bad as barrens chat?

This is why I get hostile.

Hey, you there. Troll. Yes, you. I know what you want. I’ll give it to you! In fact, I’m already giving you the attention you deserve. Try a little harder. I might get mad. C’mon. I know you got a good one.

So anyone who disagrees with you is a troll?

Great community, that.

marianitten.1247:

You don’t like the endgame? sorry this game wasn’t What You Expected Of It. Go to the suggestion forums, make your point.

The game isn’t even close to what they described in their widely popular manifesto video.

Zenyatoo.4059:

It’s exclusionary sure. But absolutely nothing is stopping you from making your own groups.

The system wouldnt exist if it didnt work. And it does work. It provides a way for players to group with other players who they KNOW have at least a rudimentary knowledge of what they’re about to attempt and do. Now, some players may find that they have more fun with a random group of first timers. But there are some times where I just want to get through what I wanted to get through (Those last 60 tokens for my SE helmet for instance) and at that point these types of groups are a godsend. No mucking about with a PuG which may fail because of one guy who has never done the run before.

If you enjoy the random aspect of playing with people who might be first timers, or whose relative skill level you can never be sure of that’s well and good. But please dont call someone else closed minded because they’d prefer to be sure they’re getting “good” players.

It’s like if a restaurant tells you that they need you to have 2 years of cooking experience before they’ll let you be a chef there. You can call them closed minded all you want, but they want the person who they KNOW has some experience doing what they intend for you to do.

So you’re saying that the dungeons are equivalent to a job?

Crisu, why would we do that when map chat in every zone in this game is just as bad as barrens chat?

Valkyrie.2678:

" found the forums more entertaining"

same seen on diablo 3 forums. There are lots of people in the game, having fun while some people are constantly complaining on forums. I think this is because the new generation of players have a higher ratio of impatient ones than before, so there are more people complaining regardless of the game’s content or what it offers.

this kind of players will never be happy with any game and keep searching for a new game, trying it, complaining and finally quitting it.

Why is everyone on this forum so dependent on strawmen?

DusK.3849:

Many weren’t even expecting different; they picked up this game thinking “Oh, it’s an MMO, and every MMO made recently has basically been WoW with a different story and stuff, so I’ll grab this game and get my holy trinity and gear treadmill on. Numbers, here I come!” and then find out that it’s nothing like WoW. So they come here complaining about the game, and the suggestions they give to “fix” it run opposite to the reasons this game was made, the reasons most of us bought it.

Do you know what a strawman is?

Bhuta.1480:

Think it’s abit early to judge the gw2 community yet, give it a couple of months for the haters to leave and then see what the forums are like then, every mmo has this sort of initial crowd,they quite quickly leave or move on to moan about the next new thing.

yeah! just like TOR! it was so much better once all the haters left and there were single digit population servers!

NOTHING IS WRONG NOTHING IS WRONG EVERYTHING IS FINE KEEP GRINDING FOR YOUR WORTHLESS SKINS

Anet are proud of what the dungeons are. They want you to have to repeat it 50 times. They think this makes the gear “worth it”.

The fans aren’t justifying their sub fee, they’re justifying their hype for so long. They’re trying to internally rationalize in any way they can that the game is good.

They lay blame on any scapegoat they can find, be it “scrubs” “noobs” “whiners” “wowpandas” whatever they can think of no matter how tenuous.

The game is already turning out like TOR, where the majority of the people still playing are diehard zealots who cannot bring themselves to admit that the game is a shallow and tedious experience at endgame.

Anet doesn’t care. They have our money.

Archer.6485:

For anyone asking why there is no gear progression, THIS IS WHY!

This is the exact reason why Anet made that decision.

You do realize that his screenshot was from guild wars 2?

Their choices in making it so the only way to get dungeon gear is by grinding badges basically forced this to happen.

They want this audience. It’s what dungeons were made for.

Guess what? When MoP comes out nothing is going to change. I know, you all want to believe that it’s just evil wow’s influence on the game. But it isn’t. These are the people who like the game, and they’re going to stay.

I haven’t logged in in several days. all that awaits me is the incredibly tedious grinds of end game and the complete imbalance of pvp, so i can’t really find a reason to play.

I must say that the collective attitude of these forums has also severely dissuaded me from playing. It’s like nobody can argue or refute a point without resorting to childish name calling and taunting.

I do not have any faith at all that Anet will ever make the end game any more enjoyable than it already is. They don’t have any reason to, what with no loss of revenue if we quit, and they have droves of fans telling them everything they do is right.

I guess i’ll always have Kerbal Space Program.

If people beat the dungeon then they can move on to other dungeons and other things.

With spvp and wvwvw in it’s state, many players have just stopped playing because they don’t want to climb mount farmdungeon for weeks.

The Guild Wars 2 Manifesto

“We founded ArenaNet to innovate, so Guild Wars 2 is our opportunity to question everything, to make a game that defies existing conventions. If you love MMOs, you’ll want to check out Guild Wars 2, and if you hate MMOs, you’ll really want to check out Guild Wars 2. Guild Wars 2 takes everything you love about Guild Wars 1 and puts it into a persistent world that’s got more active combat, a fully-branching, personalized storyline, a new event system to get people playing together, and still no monthly fees.”

There is no branching to the storyline. This is the first intentionally misleading statement. About the only major choice in the game is the choice of which order to join. After which it proceeds identically on every player, with the only difference being what missions you choose. The missions have no effect on the outcome. The choice only effects what mission you take directly after, and then the story returns to the status quo.

“The look of Guild Wars 2 is stylized. We’re going for a painterly, illustrated aesthetic. Everything in our world feels handcrafted and artisanal. We treat our environments as if they are characters themselves.”

This is the only honest statement. The game is gorgeous and I wish to congratulate whoever thought up the Kodan’s Sail-glaciers.

“When you look at the art in our game, you say ‘Wow, that’s visually stunning. I’ve never seen anything like that before,’ and then when you play the combat in our game, you say ‘Wow, that’s incredible. I’ve never seen anything like that.’ In most games, you go out, and you have really fun tasks, occasionally, that you get to do, and the rest of the game is this boring grind to get to the fun stuff. ‘I swung a sword. I swung a sword again. Hey! I swung it again.’ That’s great. We just don’t want players to grind in Guild Wars 2. No one enjoys that. No one finds it fun. We want to change the way that people view combat.”

This is the second intentionally misleading statement and undoubtedly the biggest one. The end game is nothing but a mercilessly boring grind with no fun to be had as a reward. The reward of dungeon gear is not for completing the challenge, it’s for completing the challenge dozens of times to a point where you just want to be done with it and never have to run a dungeon again.

For the people enticed by this game’s claim of being for people who hate mmo’s, this is the most disappointing falsehood.

“As a structure, the MMO has lost the ability to make the player feel like a hero. Everybody around you is doing the same thing you are doing. The boss you just killed respawns ten minutes later. It doesn’t care that I’m there.”

This is the third intentionally misleading statement. Anyone who has been to Orr can tell you that a boss you kill just respawns a few minutes later and it doesn’t matter how many times you and your zerg kill it. Nothing about doing zerg laps in Orr makes people feel heroic.

“We do not want to build the same MMO everyone else is building, and in Guild Wars 2, it’s your world. It’s your story. You affect things around you in a very permanent way.”

This is the fourth intentionally misleading statement. You do not in any way whatsoever affect the world in a permanent way. That village you saved will just be attacked by a suicide squad of whatever that zone’s bad guy is, and 5 minutes later you can do it again.

“Cause and effect: A single decision made by a player cascades out in a chain of events.”

Technically, yes. But this has nothing to do with the game’s design.

“You’re meeting new people whom you will then see again. You’re rescuing a village that will stay rescued, who then remember you. The most important thing in any game should be the player. We have built a game for them.”

This is the fifth and final misleading statement. The village will stay rescued for all of 10 minutes. The village only remembers you if you just saved it, unless they are talking about the karma vendors.

Arenanet, Will you defend your claims? Or will you admit that you gave up on your own dreams and that this manifesto cannot be considered as any guarantee of quality on your part?

Everyone who became interested in Guild Wars 2 because of this video wants to know.

They saw fit to completely break pvp between beta and now.

All you see now are thieves and mesmers. Just how many ranks are people that roll those specifically to glory farm going to get before anet makes a move?

Arenas ruined the pvp balance in wow. I never want to see them in any other game.

we try not to make empty promises

You need to check all the statements made in the Game section of your website. They’re full of them.

LordByron.8369:

Is it normal that mist form suffers traps damage (not condition) >.>?
for ex. in dungeons like spikes from the floor etc.
Not that logic.

Tested in Ascalonian catacombs story.

I notice that i almost always get hit by arrow cart shots while in mist form.

They did betas 1-3 right.

Whatever they did at release, it wrecked the balance.

Sahfur.5612:

If I recall they had said they planned to make every build viable. If thats the case, and it is… Why not just come through on the promise?

Because you already bought the game.

5-6 seems to be the average, with weaker profs showing up less, and stronger profs showing up much more.

18 and 11 is the problem. not 6.

People appear to be spamming certain professions not because they like the class, not because they find it challenging, but merely because it’s free glory that’s incredibly easy to farm.

I cannot count how many games have had a majority of the classes be either thieves or mesmers. It has reduced the entire game down to spamming keys for free wins. There is zero skill involved and most of the people doing it only have a thief to farm glory.

In just 4 games I count: 18 thieves, 11 mesmers, 6 necromancers, 5 warriors, 5 rangers, 4 guardians, 3 elementalists, 4 counting myself, and I appear to be the only person playing engineer in these shots.

I only have a small dataset at the moment. I know Arenanet has the statistics for what professions are doing what. I hope they will release those data that show what professions are being overplayed in Spvp and act on them quickly.

I really do not believe that 8v8 was deliberately intended to be farmed by a handful of professions.

According to Arenanet you’re not supposed to pug for explore mode because you need vanilla naxxaramas levels of preparation to tackle them effectively.

I’m starting to wonder about arenanet’s intentions. I’m starting to wonder why they kept the dungeons from the general public until the last moment.

Maybe people would have gotten the word out that the dungeons are about as status quo as you can get in an mmo, and it would have discouraged the people who only became interested in the game because of certain statements to people who “hate mmo’s”

But, hey, i’m not forced to play. Nobody is. We’ll see how that works for them.

Very few of the descriptions on the main site are accurate at all.

It makes me wonder who they got to write it.

Arciel, if they keep the dungeon difficulty the same but add incentives to do the other wings because all the bosses drop a random set piece and/or more tokens, how does this effect you in any way? How does more people having the skins negatively effect your game experience? Is your game experience the only one that matters?

We’re trying to be constructive. Calling people whiners and telling them to l2p is not constructive.

Aerel.6471:

By “End Game” i meant the Hardcore part of the game, which not everyone can complete.

But everyone can complete it and that’s not the issue. The issue is that it has to be completed far too many times.

If this was Dark Souls, the equivalent would be farming slabs, ironically, down in Old Anor Londo for 75 hours just to get an item that is purely cosmetic. Go down, kill all the Darkwraiths, maybe get a few shards, port back to the bonfire, reset, repeat. For 75 hours. Dark Souls is difficult because of the combat mechanics, not because of mindless repetition.

The only difficulty involved is maintaining interest in the goal and the game over such a lengthy section of pure repetition. This is not what i bought the game for. This is not how they advertised the game.

Arciel, that’s not an argument. You’re essentially saying that we can either play or we can quit. Why would some of us who have waited 7 years just quit the game because we have other commitments to our time and this game was advertised as being accommodating to those time commitments?

We don’t want it free. Many people have offered multiple ideas that still require work, one of the best being that the dungeon mobs and bosses drop more shards and actual gear. As it is, barely anyone goes to the more difficult wings of the dungeons.

They can either change the way dungeons work, or change their marketing to reflect what dungeons actually are and offer refunds to the people who feel lied to.

From the Dungeons Guide

…each dungeon has its own unique armors and weapons that can’t be found anywhere else. The armor from the Ascalonian Catacombs is different from what you’ll find in Sorrow’s Embrace, which is different from the treasure found in Caudecus’s Manor.

There is simply no truth to this statement until the gear actually drops in the dungeons.

But the combos aren’t guaranteed to hit. You need to set up your combos and have the skill to pull them off. That and our low survivability justified the extra damage we did.

I’m going to assume that there are more people who have only played the game after it went live than played in the beta. So it makes little difference which opinion is the majority.

If you played elementalist in beta, it’s impossible to ignore the changes that were made. I was sold on the class during beta, and now it doesn’t even feel the same.

Thank you for the reply, Jon. I will risk putting my faith in you guys to strike a new balance.

Wherever elementalists may fall, as long as the spvp is balanced.

Well done. Hope Anet reads and considers this. 75 hours for one set of skins is not very revolutionary.

Apathy, are you seriously going to continue flamebaiting this discussion? Where exactly did I state that it should be free? Are you unable to argue against my words so you invent your own to argue against?

Please bring a little civility to your posts.

Oh wow, Tonicks that has been driving me nuts. I thought i was just being stunned out of it or it was some weird bug with hitting a skill too soon after activation.

The same thing happens with the underwater cyclone.

Oh, the old gray mare, she ain’t what she used to be…

Excuse the hastily done cropping job.

Zenzic: Polythaum Extraordinaire.

The class was so much more fun during beta. We were just as fragile, but we had the burst to even it out.

It does remind me of what happened to mages in wow. I just hope we do not have to wait 7 years for Anet to simply reverse the changes they made from BWE-2 to now.

Or at least have a little more interaction with the community. All they’ve addressed in these forums is the underwater elite, which we’re grateful for if not confused as to it’s absence for so long.

Some sweet nothings like “we’re looking into it” would calm a lot of people’s frayed nerves.

Vash.1852:

Point they are trying to make is that you don’t have to go for the dungeon gear. You can get the same stats elsewhere.

If you wanted to be really pedantic about it, you could reply to any grievance of the game with “Nobody is forcing you to play”

That’s not really a constructive line of dialogue in my book.

Apathy indeed.

Could you take your antagonistic rhetoric elsewhere? We’re trying to discuss things like adults here.

How dare you, sir?

I have done arah maybe 3 times. and those times, to my dismay the party leader led us to the first boss, we beat it and then he disbanded. I haven’t done them since because i do not find the experience enjoyable enough to warrant the tedium and repetition.

Is this all that is to be gained on these forums? Needless antagonism for expressing our views?

Agreed. Stop forcing players to seek exploits to avoid tedious game design in a game advertised up and down as an end to this sort of repetitive grind mmo.

Just make the gear drop, or cut the cost of the gear by 1/10th of what it is now. It should take 4-10 full runs for a full set. Not 50-60 of one wing. Or both! lots of tokens and a random set piece that you don’t already have.

Is this why dungeons were kept from the general public until the last moment?

From the Dungeons Guide

…each dungeon has its own unique armors and weapons that can’t be found anywhere else. The armor from the Ascalonian Catacombs is different from what you’ll find in Sorrow’s Embrace, which is different from the treasure found in Caudecus’s Manor.

I’m genuninely wondering if the people who write these things have even played the game. You’ll find no unique loot aside from the tokens in these places. You’ll find no unique armor, unless you count the unique stats on the hat you get at the end of story mode.

I feel like i’m being lied to. Like i’ve been led to believe this game is what it is not.

Either make the gear drop in the dungeons, and give us a reason to do anything but the easiest wings, or be more honest in your advertising.

I believed in you, Anet.