Guild Wars 2

Not bad, but I honestly thing you’re losing out on a lot of damage without ferocity. Maybe trade a little precision for more ferocity or condi.

You don’t need Runes of the Pack Speedy kits already gives perma swiftess, use a different set, I’d recommend Runes of Strength but you mentioned budget so Scholar is not a bad way to go.

Not sure about Sigil of Strength, I’ve always gone with Sigil of Battle, but you probably want Sigil of Torment there.

Your traits are fine.

With your abilities I would swap out elixir S for tool kit, It can give you the same protection with its 3 sec block on 1/3rd the cd and you have a stun break on the elixir gun utility already. Plus toolkit gives you a good chunk of damage from throw wrench and pry bar, and a single pull.

It’s very possible to use pistols and apothecary gear, but you’re just not going about it the right way.

I do not think turrets are the right way to go for damage, if you want to focus on healing Bomb Kit and the Backpack Regenerator trait are a good way to go for decent survival and condi damage.

Elixir gun is a good idea because of the #5 heal #4 blast/escape and the fact that the auto on it bleeds weakens. It also has a stun break on the utility skill.

Rocket boots are a good pick because of the mobility it offers (it breaks immob) and has a great burn on the utility.

Thumper Turret is also great because it has a blast on the turret overcharge with cc, blast on detonation, and a blast/stun break on the utility. All of which can be lined up to use with the HT overcharge.

With traits I would not go into the invention line. The toughness and healing power are nice but the trait options are very lacking. I would recommend putting more points into the alchemy line because of invigorating speed, protection Injection, and backpack regenerator.

Personally I really like shield for the blast and block/stun, but maybe that’s just me…

Kits are what give the Engineer amazing versatility.
but.
It is possible to do great condi damage without them.

As has been mentioned, HGH is one of the best ways to go, I have seen HGH builds without kits they just are harder to use, it relies heavily on effective dodging and tanky armor but elixirs can give you great utility.

If you wanna make a no kit build I’m willing to help you with armor and trait choices.

My Norn Evvenna

Two of my favorite outfits and color schemes.

I’ve been away for 4 months and I was wondering what’s been going on with engies in the past few months?

Sooooooo, apart from a new mouse (which I highly recommend anyways) it can help to rebind some of the skills to ones near your fingers. Z, X, and C, are all good choices. And so are Q, and E.

This has been discussed a few times, though it is possible to get viable use out of grenade kit without it traited, it just becomes more of a utility kit for spreading chill and poison, with burst on toolkit.
What has been discussed before was change untraited to throw either 2 or 3 grenades while having it traited guarantees 3.
While it is a fantastic trait it is a grandmaster and is equateable to HGH, I do not believe there is anything wrong with it.

What What What
All of my yes +1

HGH nades can be pretty dope too, with heavy power and condi damage.

I’m in a wvw ninja guild on mag if you’re interested, we also do other silly things like jumping puzzles and dungeons. Though there is probably a guild that is right for you on your server if you keep looking.

http://www.razerzone.com/gaming-mice

Just a heads up, speedy kits isn’t needed if you’re running elixir B.
Now I know that sounds crazy but hear me out; pop elixir B and get 16 seconds of swiftness, quick switch elixir H to medkit, us 5 and get 13 seconds of swiftness, then switch back into elixir H and pop it.
This is great for running from place to place because when elixir H is back up you know you can use the 5 on medkit again and repeat the process.

I run something eerily similar and I’m just wondering why you aren’t running HGH?
I realize self regulating defenses can work great for survival and you aren’t running and boon or might duration runes but I don’t either and easily maintain 10 stacks of might.

I’m also not sure why you’re running modified ammunition when your build has almost no condition application?

What if mordremoth is a burrowing dragon and the probes are trying to find him

A lot of this seems to make sense for Mordremoth, considering he is a jungle/earth dragon.

There is very little we know about the jungle dragon, but maybe that is what this whole thing is leading up to?

But engineers do need more stability in general so maybe juggernaut could grant stability for 5 seconds when switching to flamethrower?

Then I guess i have to pioneer something…
I put my rifle on while wearing my condi gear recently for the ranged knockback and it confused the hell out of a mesmer, dude had no idea what to dodge. which is what gave me this idea in the first place.

Honestly I don’t think it is worth it to run lyssa runes since your build doesn’t focus around boons and you could gain better condi cleanse from healing turret.

I’ve run a lot of different builds and have about 6 different armor sets, I have used straight power builds, straight condi builds, and hybrid builds. Personally for roaming in wvw I prefer hybrid because it gives me a better range of options for dealing with opponents.
Normally for hybrid damage I use a P/S 3 kit perplex build with carrion armor, but recently I’ve been wanting to try something with rifle and hgh.
But anything different and interesting that uses hybrid damage I am interested in trying.
And do you think celestial armor and/or trinkets would be a good idea.

tl;dr
I like hybrid damage for roaming but wanna use rifle know of any good or interesting builds?

One thing they mentioned was giving bigger bonuses for having more but having larger bonuses for using combination sets such as boon duration so that it is still viable to either have a full set or mix a few.

edit: I know exactly what you mean I use boon duration too and in the livestream it seemed that they didn’t plan to nerf things like boon and might duration so I’m not even sure that will be touched on runesets.

Dredd Spirit Caller.4082:

ft/eg is a condi build
u gain might with judgernaut the sigil is useless

any kit can be used for power or conditions, yes there are some good condition builds that utilize the fts rapid attack speed to proc conditions but that isn’t what op is going for. The ft is great for bursting and stacking might which works fantastically with op’s build.
And why would you want less might? The best you can get off of stacking might from juggernaut is 10 stacks so sigil of battle is better than sigil of corruption for either conditions or direct power for the extra might because it boosts both forms of damage

I really like this build, multiple cc skills help to bounce around a necro, and multiple blast finishers help sustain and might stacking.

The thief was clearly using blinding powder and shadow refuge, but would gain stealth on immobilize and could maintain it seemingly indefinitely. At one point he was running with an engi, which could have helped with blast finishers, but for a long time i was 1v1ing them and they appeared to be able to permastealth out of combat.

I have a love hate relationship with kits and completely understand wanting a build without them. And while hgh will work, but the biggest problem you will face is relfects because you lack any melee attack.

I fought a permastealth thief using s/d but I thought perma stealth was only possible with p/d. what was this thief doing to keep up stealth?

Engineer has multiple combo fields and multiple blast finishers across many viable builds without sacrificing anything.

hydeaut.1758:

Xyonon.3987:

You realize that Big’Ol’Bom -> Fire Bomb -> Heal Turret -> Shield 4 -> F1 -> Elixier Gun 4 grants 12 stacks permamight?

Very good example: while an Engineer needs combofields, special utilities and 5+ buttons, a Guard gets 12 stacks of Aoe-might with 1 button-press on a simple weapon-skill + heal on top of it.

This class is so much less efficient than specialized classes when it comes to support, it´s laughable.

But what happens when you replace the fire bomb in that sequence with HT overcharge or smoke bomb?

zaragoz.6351:

I’m going to disagree, with that being a good power build, generally speaking if the 3 man I run with see’s an engineer we focus it instantly the only saving grace that build has is the block which our guardian will remove instantly, then you are dead, plus without zerkers the damage is not good at all. If you want to fool yourself into thinking that power is good on an engineer be my guest, but it is not. You either spec conditions, or you run a sub par build, and that is unfortunately the way it is in wvw and spvp right now.

So power is not good because it can’t survive against a 1v3?

What flavor of warrior do you want?

“Oh boy, I can’t wait to do this jumping puzzle.”

I don’t see any reason for you to be running elixirs with your current trait setup. You also have a very aggressive trait setup which is fine but can be hard to run in wvw. And I do not see a stun break or reliable condition removal. Your armor makes it seem like you want to go full conditions but your traits and abilities look better suited for hybrid damage.

Pretty much, I’m not sure what you want to do with the build.

Though I would recommend changing short fuse to incendiary powder and changing your armor and weapons to carrion, with dire/rabid trinkets.

Btw, I love P/P and run a hybrid damage build for roaming in wvw and everything I’ve mentioned is coming only from a wvw standpoint.

ukuni.8745:

I got depressed when I decided to take a look at the warrior and seen that 20 trait points gave a warrior all the tank he needed, sadly engineers are.really strong imagine how strong we would be if we had traits like other classes.

and then we get nerfed again

You pretty much said everything I was gonna, for conditions you only need 1 type of point allocation for damage while for power you also need crit chance and damage, and yeah, conditions ignore toughness.

Though I mostly play wvw what I am saying comes from a wvw standpoint.

First of all; wvw, pvp, or pve?

But everything you mentioned that you wants seem to point towards solely condition damage. In which case I would recommend a mix of apothecary and dire.
The reason being, you want defense and healing, so going for condition damage you can still get a decent amount of damage from conditions as well as having plenty of toughness, vitality, and healing power.

On the other hand, you are right bombs scale fantastically with power, but only power, doesn’t do as much damage as only conditions and if you still go for defense and healing you will hit like a wet noodle.
And that’s where hybrid damage comes into play, you could go with some carrion armor which has both condition damage and power, but you would lose out on defense and healing.

edit: P/P and P/S excel with conditions naturally so if you go for power your pistols are pretty useless damage wise.

For a hybrid damage build for solo/group roaming in wvw would you take Napalm Specialist (33% longer burn duration) or Modified Ammunition (2% more damage for each condition on a foe)?

Dual.8953:

Aza.2105:

Stx.4857:

As far as which professions need the most player skill to succeed with, thief is already towards the top, probably second to eles, so I see no reason why they should be harder to play.

With that said, it would make sense to me if a thief became revealed after striking a blocking target.

Whenever you see lots of flies you know there is crap nearby. Thief is the class you see in the most abundance when it comes to roaming and solo ganking. Why? Are you going to lie to yourself and say that these players purposely picked the hardest class to roam with? No, you know that would be a lie. The reality is they picked thief because its the easiest class to roam and solo gank with. That has the least amount of risk involved.

You can apply this logic to can be applied to any aspect of the game.

Uh no, that’d be Warrior at this point. You only see so many solo Thieves in WvW because they have no where else to go, in most cases. Poor at zerging and have a stigma against them in PvE, roamings the only place they can somewhat stand out.

And maybe that’s the problem, maybe there needs to me development on non stealth builds for use in pve and zerging.

Maskaganda.2043:

Kontrolle.3514:

My advice to you OP is stick to your ele or reroll warrior/thief. Mobility is the key.

you can’t reduce roaming to mobility alone. that would be running, not roaming.

and yea, I’ve found alot of warriors saying the same as you, how they beat every engie. and then they die and don’t say it anymore.

follow link on my sig, click any vid and tell me engies don’t work for roaming.

I have all classes leveled to 80 and my favourite to roam is engie, I’ve done it with most of them but nothing is more fun and rewarding for me than engie.

But he is a warrior, and we all know their true calling is to be the fastest runner they can be.

I really like the idea of a specialized weapon for each class but I have a hard time believing that could be viable or balanced, it would essentially be racial skills for classes.

Umut.5471:

Seriously, what’s the use of mortar when there’s grenades ? Grenades have 1500 range and do better, faster dmg with mobility. They have to increase mortar’s range to 2500 and make its radius 300-ish to make it an “elite” skill. It’s not an “elite” skill currently.

And that’s why this needs to be addressed.

We hear a lot around here about “hard counters” and “soft counters.” But what are they? The term has floated around the gaming world for some time, particularly in the video game world. They simply mean this: A hard counter is a response to an attack that not only renders that attack nearly or completely useless, it may well convert the attack into an outright benefit. A soft counter is a response to an attack that still causes some damage to be suffered, but less damage than if that counter had not been played. One can extend that concept to plays beyond mere attacks; more on that later.
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=5039.0

example: a hard counter to a hgh engineer is a boon corrupt necro
this is not saying the engineer will lose, it just becomes very difficult

coun·ter 3 [koun-ter]
adverb
1.
in the wrong way; contrary to the right course; in the reverse or opposite direction.
2.
contrary; in opposition (usually preceded by run or go ): to run counter to the rules.
adjective
3.
opposite; opposed; contrary.
noun
4.
something that is opposite or contrary to something else.
5.
a blow delivered in receiving or parrying another blow, as in boxing.
6.
a statement or action made to refute, oppose, or nullify another statement or action.
7.
Fencing. a circular parry.
8.
a piece of leather or other material inserted between the lining and outside leather of a shoe or boot quarter to keep it stiff.
verb (used with object)
13.
to go counter to; oppose; controvert.
14.
to meet or answer (a move, blow, etc.) by another in return.
verb (used without object)
15.
to make a counter or opposing move.
16.
to give a blow while receiving or parrying one, as in boxing.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/counter

But the point of bomb kit is that they are… well… bombs…
there is already a kit for throwing explosives.

Lyrsen.6702:

Stillshade.7634

But that’s my point exactly, if you fight a hammer stun warrior you have at least one stun break slotted to save yourself, if you fight a high damage condition build you have your cleanse to save yourself. These are all things available to every class that hard-counter specific tactics.

I think your definition of “hard counter” needs to change. A stun break will remove one effect but will not affect the next disabling ability hence a soft counter, stability is a hard counter to stuns, it prevents them from happening again.

Condition removal is not a hard counter, it’s a soft counter, it does not prevent the conditions from being re-applied, Berserker Stance is a hard counter to conditions, they cannot be applied to you again, same with Elementalist trait XI in Earth magic Diamond Skin and Engineer trait XII in Alchemy Automated Response. Only three classes of the eight have a hard counter to conditions, the rest is a soft counter and is up to skill when and where to use it.

A hard counter has no effect on re-application, it just negates the affect.

Elixir H grants protection, swiftness, or regen, at random. While random boons are nice for a boon centered build a guaranteed result is more important. At the very least guaranteed protection and a random boon.

This topic comes from the engineer forum
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Elixir-H-could-it-be-better/first#post3475915

Lyrsen.6702:

Stillshade.7634

But what if I don’t see the thief first?
But what if I don’t want to change my whole build to play around 1 class?

The whole game is based on what if’s. You take condition removal based on, what if I run into a condition class? You take invulnerability skills for, what if I find a power class that I need a breather from? You take a stun breaker for, What if i get disabled?

If you don’t build for every What if scenario the ones you don’t build for are your builds counter! Honestly though it’s pretty much impossible to build for every scenario so there will be counters to every build, eventually (warrior is very powerful at the moment).

But that’s my point exactly, if you fight a hammer stun warrior you have at least one stun break slotted to save yourself, if you fight a high damage condition build you have your cleanse to save yourself. These are all things available to every class that hard-counter specific tactics.

Guild Wars 2 is a game where using the right ability at the right time can make all the difference, but there has never been a time when the question came up should I use stealth now? and the answer was no.

The thief is a class that could be functioning to a fuller potential. Reliance on stealth causes many all or nothing builds which tend to not contribute much in a group setting or lead to long and engaging fights. A change to the stealth mechanic might potentially be a way to allow the thief to bring more to the table.

It has been mentioned that ability dodges don’t really work and maybe that’s a problem? The solution shouldn’t be to use stealth, it should be to enhance the class to give it more variety.

Edit; from what I’ve been reading it seems that stealth is something thieves are forced into and if that is true then that is a development issue and should be addressed.

Lyrsen.6702:

Why is everyone so fixated on seeing something happen? if you know they’re there, and it’s coming prepare for it. If you see a thief Stealth, you know what’s gonna happen, Back Stab, Sneak Attack, or Tactical Strike depending on the weapon they use. Stealth lasts 3-4 seconds at any one application, you can make it longer by chaining a stealth utility, leap through a smoke field or blast a smoke field. Those Skills have a visual representation and are fairly easy to tell apart if you know thief skills at all.

There is a tell that a thief is going to use a stealth attack he only has 3-4 seconds to do it, count to Two in your head, start a defensive skill that lasts 2-3 seconds, unless you see a little red black powder circle, you’ll have the thief drop out of stealth since your defensive skill lasts long enough for the 3-4 seconds to be up. At this point you need to remember to dodge the CnD, if you do the thief has almost no initiative left. and he’ll use a utility stealth, great you used one of your CD skills and a dodge. The thief has used a CD skill and lost the advantage of surprise.

Now on to what happens if you see a little red black powder circle:

• stand in the black powder while the Thief tries to Leap through it (not the best choice but it works, you will have to kill the blind with an auto attack)
• keep moving, make it so your character turns around so it’s very hard for a thief to actually hit your back. Strafing and about face bound on your keyboard works well and frustrates many thieves.
• DO NOT start running away unless you have a teleport or something similar to a warrior GS 5.

ArmageddonAsh.6430

2) Like what? Again, this is something only FEW classes have and even then, again limited in duration Some classes have blocks, Mesmer has Scepter #2 and a sword block, Engi has shield that stuns, Ele has shield that can stun dunno about warrior, guardian or Ranger – Necro has NONE of these.

Warriors have: Shield 5, Endure Pain active and at 25% health, off-hand Sword 5 block, Great sword 5 or sword 2 away from the combat area to gain some distance, count to two and hit hammer 4 generally will knock away a thief.

Guardians have: Shelter, Aegis passive, hit F3 to get Aegis again, multiple ways of getting protection, Renewed Focus, Shelter, Focus 5, Hammer 5 and staff 5 running over the cc lines, count to Two and a half use shield 5, Mace 3, Judges Intervention away.

Rangers have: Great sword 4 it works really well against a thief, Traited Signet of Stone, protection on dodge will mitigate a huge burst into a small one.

Necromancers have: Staff 5 and stand in it, or any mark. Most thieves worth their salt will dodge through the mark, your que to dodge too or hit Death Shroud with IV (Weakening Shroud) in Curses. have you tried standing on or continually running through a Spectral Wall? the protection buff works very well and has a chance to fear the thief away from you. Well of darkness is very good at stopping the melee Stealth attacks several times if you stand in it.

does this counter a thief well enough for you?

But what if I don’t see the thief first?
But what if I don’t want to change my whole build to play around 1 class?

Stx.4857:

Stillshade.7634:

Stx.4857:

Stillshade.7634:

Stx.4857:

MonMalthias.4763:

Thief just isn’t fun to play against; and the first step to make it so is to make Stealth interact more with the other classes.

Okay, but see this is just an opinion. I personally think thieves are fun to play against, because they are so kitten squishy. Yes it sucks when they escape, but that is part of their class… they are shady kittens.

Every class has mechanics that are not fun to fight against. I find it very unfun that Guardians can chain aegis with immunities, blinds, dodges, and negate tons of my attacks. I find it very unfun that Warriors can stun and knock me down every few seconds. I find it very unfun that Engineers can fart out bombs and grenades every few seconds and kill me without even targetting me as long as I try to contest a point.

Except all those mechanics can be countered and played against. Stealth cannot be countered which is the topic of this post and that stands true.

Blatantly false statement. You can counter Shadow Refuge, you can counter cloak and dagger, you can counter black powder>Heartseeker spam.

The only ways a thief can stealth with no way to stop him is with blinding powder(40 sec cd), or with a trait that auto stealths. If you are referring to these methods as having no counters, then I would also argue that many other professions have no counters to their defense mechanisms because you cannot prevent them from casting them.

Sometimes you just cant stop a thief from stealthing, sometimes you just cant stop a Guardian from healing to full, life sucks.

This has been discussed and those are only soft counters. There is nothing that truly works against stealth except mindless aoe which is unreliable.

Oh so now stealth has soft counters instead of no counters? I see…

I am not sure what you people want. I mean I can’t stop a Guardian from going immune to damage and healing, I can’t stop an engie from swapping kits, or an ele from swapping attunements. I can’t stop a Necro from entering Deathshroud, or a Mesmer from popping out clones. Why is it so necessary to hardcounter a thief from going into stealth? Just because its annoying to fight against? Because thieves escape from combat easier? Great reasons.

Guardians have low mobility and long cds, engineers and eles don’t have 2 weapons sets so they rely on kits/attunements, necros have the worst stability and movement abilites of any class, mesmers are almost solely reliant on clones and phantasms for damage and distraction, thieves have initiative which means their attacks don’t have cds

Why are you so against a nerf to stealth? It is not the sole identifier of the thief class. It is not what makes a thief unique. Yes thieves have the most access to it. And yes it is broken as kitten which this thread is trying to address by finding a way to make it more reactive with the rest of the game.

In a game where each element is made to work together stealth sits there not fitting in. It is an effective tool but doesn’t make sense in the whole boon/condition scene and doesn’t have synergy with other abilities in the game.

Stealth really is interesting and fun to use but when I see a thief stealth near me it would be nicer to have a different option than sit on a mine and hope they go away.

For every other class gaining survivability means sacrificing damage.
Relying on stealth for survivability does not hinder damage output and instead helps it.

Edit: At least from a wvw standpoint

I’ve honestly never used it outside of a bunker build and it really does help survivability but I have never used it in 1v1 and wouldn’t think it would be easy to use aggressively at low health.