Guild Wars 2

GuildWarsPlayer.5608:

ESO and WildStar are both going to be subscription based so I doubt Anet will have to worry about anything they put out.

False notion that different payment models don’t compete with each other. I will play good games regardless of what payment model they are. If it is F2P or Subscription. MMOs will compete with each other.

Karizee.8076:

Subscription fees are a scam. True story, I paid over $2000 playing WoW and at the end of the day I have nothing. I cannot login, I cannot view my characters – turns out I was only renting the game (very expensive rent to boot!).

Time is money. So all MMOs can be scams. If you spent 2,000 hours playing MMOs, that is money. Regardless of the business model of the MMO.

GW2 is one of the top MMOs, but depending on what you look at the story is different. Here is Raptr and their top MMOs. Raptr has 30 million users and sometimes data can be skewed due to promotions.

Week

1) WoW
2) FFXIV
3) SWTOR
4) GW2
5) Rift

http://raptr.com/dashboard/games

All MMOs will suffer with the new MMOs coming out.

Lord Kuru.3685:

Fernling.1729:

Anet was willing to give away 5000 free accounts just for submitting a video of yourself taking the GW2 oath.
Why didn’t you people submit a video to get a free account for a friend, family member or even for yourself as a storage?

Because for many people, it’s not worth publicly embarrassing yourself for the equivalent of $30 (the current sale price).

Exactly, which is why it was bad marketing.

Fernling.1729:

Karizee.8076:

There were 5,000 winners so there must have been at least that many entries.

I tried searching youtube for several variations of GW2 oath(migration/oath/etc) and didn’t see anything other than the 118 videos and a sims guy.
I think they already had the page written and decided to just go with it.
What’s the chances of 97%+ of the uploaded videos not to have anything about gw2 migration or oath in it?

The way the contest works is that you have to submit a link of your video to Arenanet, and as long as it is within the rules (30 secs and in a public place) they put you on the playlist.

From the playlist they will pick the winners from panel of judges. But since there was less videos than expected, I am guessing all 118 will win. I am sure a few more videos will trickle in.

There are some excellent GW2 streams, I personally like Shinryuku and Ostrigheggs, but they never grow in viewership. These guys deserve way more views than they are getting.

Karizee.8076:

Xcom.1926:

Karizee.8076:

There were 5,000 winners so there must have been at least that many entries.

Huh? That was just the default message because they probably expected 5,000. You can do a quick Youtube search to see how many videos there are. This isn’t a private competition per the rules it is public.

By submitting a Video, participant hereby grants permission for the Video to be posted on Sponsors’ YouTube Channel, website and social media pages and to otherwise be used as set forth below.

100 hours of video are uploaded to YouTube every minute. How would you find them if they didn’t title them GW2?

lol

Every single video on the playlist has “GW2” “Guild Wars 2” “Oath” or a combination of those words. So you are saying the rest of the 4,800 videos didn’t have those words. And since they didn’t Arenanet didn’t upload them on their webpage? Is that you argument?

Karizee.8076:

There were 5,000 winners so there must have been at least that many entries.

Huh? That was just the default message because they probably expected 5,000. You can do a quick Youtube search to see how many videos there are. This isn’t a private competition per the rules it is public.

By submitting a Video, participant hereby grants permission for the Video to be posted on Sponsors’ YouTube Channel, website and social media pages and to otherwise be used as set forth below.

Fernling.1729:

Anet was willing to give away 5000 free accounts just for submitting a video of yourself taking the GW2 oath.
Why didn’t you people submit a video to get a free account for a friend, family member or even for yourself as a storage?

Did people expect them to get 5,000? I don’t think anyone did. They are lucky to get as much as 118. ANet probably over estimated the interest in this campaign. It was basically asking people to embarrass themselves publicly. Kudos to the people that did it though.

Yargesh.4965:

Xcom.1926:

That was painful and cringe worthy. Things like this make me embarrassed. Can you guys do something cool instead that make me proud to play GW2 and something that I can share with friends that don’t play GW2? I want to tell my friends hey check this thing out it is so cool. Instead of things like this that are so cringe inducing?

And do you realize this isn’t 2005 anymore? You realize most MMOs are F2P? Why are you talking about subscriptions? Most MMOs are F2P with less barrier to entry than GW2.

I think they are talking about subs because two big names coming next year (maybe) will be sub based. They want to differentiate themselves from the competition.

That is a good point. So they are asking people to pledge and not jump ship?

That was painful and cringe worthy. Things like this make me embarrassed. Can you guys do something cool instead that make me proud to play GW2 and something that I can share with friends that don’t play GW2? I want to tell my friends hey check this thing out it is so cool. Instead of things like this that are so cringe inducing?

And do you realize this isn’t 2005 anymore, right? You realize most MMOs are F2P? Why are you talking about subscriptions? Most MMOs are F2P with less barrier to entry than GW2.

Lopez.7369:

At this point I have to assume they’re purposely avoiding this thread.

I would be ok with, “We just can’t fix it”.

Calae.1738:

That income stream is quite low for an MMO. Come March 2014 with 3 huge online RPG titles set to release; Arenanet better have a Hail Mary.

The $23 million was revenue. Income is only a tiny fraction of that.

Stuff like this clearly shows the game needs an expansion or a big patch. Cantha or something like that would help.

phys.7689:

Xcom.1926:

Belenwyn.8674:

As long as the gem sales are steady there is no reason for NCSoft to worry. The decrease of box sales was expected caused by lower prices.

The release in China will be slightly delayed – I would guess Spring. I your estimation is true there will be no expansion this year.

There is no chance we see a GW2 expansion next year, NCSoft has other concerns in the West next year. But less box sales = less gem sales. More players = more gem sales. If less people aren’t buying the box it translates to less players buying gems. There is a relationship there.

My point about NCSoft’s concern is that Aion and B&S are on par with GW2 in terms of revenue and their revenue comes solely from Korea which is a small market. Whereas GW2 is released in two of the biggest markets. Before, someone says China look at the revenue for China/Taiwan in the report, it is non-existent.

uhh look at that chart again korea is apparently where an extremely large amount of their money comes from. looking at that graph, looks like korea brings in about twice as much as they get from NA+EU+JP+taiwan

Korea is a small market compared to the West. SK’s population is only 50 million. It seems large because there aren’t many NCSoft games in the West and the ones that are there aren’t do so well.

Belenwyn.8674:

As long as the gem sales are steady there is no reason for NCSoft to worry. The decrease of box sales was expected caused by lower prices.

The release in China will be slightly delayed – I would guess Spring. I your estimation is true there will be no expansion this year.

There is no chance we see a GW2 expansion next year, NCSoft has other concerns in the West next year. But less box sales = less gem sales. More players = more gem sales. If less people aren’t buying the box it translates to less players buying gems. There is a relationship there.

My point about NCSoft’s concern is that Aion and B&S are on par with GW2 in terms of revenue and their revenue comes solely from Korea which is a small market. Whereas GW2 is released in two of the biggest markets. Before, someone says China look at the revenue for China/Taiwan in the report, it is non-existent.

Belenwyn.8674:

NCSoft launched their Q3 earnings report and answered questions on the conference call.

http://www.ncsoft.net/global/ir/earnings.aspx

Some interesting points:

• Sales for the quarter 22.9 M $
• solid and stable income via store sales; decreasing box sales
• Launch in China slightly delayed
• More information about an expansion probably after launch in China
• Servers for Korea not before launch in China

We have to be patient until the first months of the next year to receive more details about an expansion. Good news is that the players supporting the game with the shop in a strong way.

It is important to note that they lost 15% of revenue quarter over quarter. And the previous quarter over quarter they lost somewhere about 20%. I am sure NCSoft looks at this with some some concern as they keep going down every quarter when there is no competition in the market. Next year when there is tons of competition the revenue drops will be higher unless we see an expansion.

The most important thing I got from the call is that the Chinese launch for GW2 is delayed. Blade&Soul is doing extremely well in China, significantly better than GW2 so NCSoft has shifted their focus to B&S and its China release. At least what I got from the NCSoft representative’s tone is GW2 isn’t going to be released anytime soon in China. Maybe end of 2014.

eisberg.2379:

The reason why more and more companies are going with a cash shop model is because they can grab more players to play the game, which creates a bigger pool of people to get to spend money.

There was a bigger jump when a MMO switched to F2P in the past 3-5 years ago, but it just isn’t true anymore. There are way too many free MMOs and the market is saturated. People literally have a choice of a dozen decent MMOs that are completely free.

We have seen mergers of a lot of F2P games recently, that bump is minimal n ow.

I just want more armor and better armor. The armor choice is lacking so much in this game.

eisberg.2379:

Most likely not WoW, but I think it has a good chance to beat Lineage.

I just looked at the last report from NCSoft and Lineage made 3 times what GW2 made, wow. It is unbelievable how a game that is 15 years old is doing so well. There is no way in hell it catches up to that.

Another surprising thing is that GW2 and Aion are neck in neck in terms of revenue. Another shocker.

Those Koreans must love their mmos.

playandchill.3908:

Cant wait for next subbed mmo.

I don’t mind paying subscription at all, if the game is good. I won’t pay subs to bad/average games.

eisberg.2379:

Their not making an expansion because they can’t afford it, it is a choice of theirs. They plan on release expansion style content over time and for free instead. Guild Wars 2 is making more money per month then the vast majority of the sub MMOs are, I think Lineage and WoW are the only sub games that beat it, and both of those games have been released world wide and in the biggest MMO markets in the world, where as Guild Wars 2 has not.

What other subscription MMOs are there? It is Eve? Eve is an extremely niche MMO and it makes roughly 17 million dollars a year. GW2 last quarter made 26 million dollars. Is there any other subscription MMOs you are comparing it with?

I believe NCSoft has another sales call coming up next week, hopefully GW2 doesn’t go down another 30% like it did last quarter or it will be in Eve range in terms of revenue. SWTOR supposedly has 500k subscribers and makes just as much as GW2.

The problem with GW2 at the moment when it comes to revenue, is that unless they release an expansion, revenue will keep going down. At least based on the trend I am seeing currently.

Hannelore.8153:

Even on heavily populated servers, many maps are simply completely barren.

The thing is “High” means nothing in GW2. I was on a High server for months and rarely saw more than 20 people in Lion’s Arch during Primetime.

I agree with you about “Underflow” servers, there are many servers that are completely barren, and if ANet doesn’t do anything to fix it, the effect will snowball as people will think no one is playing the game.

mako.2431:

Shiren.9532:

Most servers can’t fill four maps, why do we need a fifth?

I’m excited about new terrain and possibly new objectives or gameplay, but populations are too sparse already, this will make that problem worse.

Ummm for the one’s that have 3 hour queues?! Does not require a whole lot of critical thinking.

T1 servers usually have queues during reset day, other than that it isn’t so bad. Most days there aren’t any queues. Regardless I think this is a good move. They can lower the WvW cap and fix skill lag also. It can solve a couple of problems.

So we have to wait till the middle of 2014 for this? Dammit.

It is an artificial way to make players log in. Things like dailies and weeklies are also forums of “temporary content”.

Also, having 2-week cycles of temp content means they have something to sell you every 2 weeks, with the limited time sale feeling we all will have because we know the item is going away.

Ahlen.7591:

Gnat.9405:

I don’t think I’m speaking on behalf of the entire player base, I’m taking examples that are used every day in the forums. And like another poster said, we will either agree or not – all feedback is subjective, but they still ask for it. That’s how collaboration works.

Also, you’re missing the point as Far as the bag is concerned. Rewards should be obtainable by playing the game at a casual pace. Playing the game to get a reward that is specific to this event should be totally possible for people with limited play time without having to go outside of the event and use other methods to acquire it. I don’t think buying candy from the auction house is an acceptable alternative for those that want to gain the rewards by participating in the content, and at current rates, it is unlikely that a casual player will achieve that.

You have to understand that the forums are an extreme minority of the player-base. If I had to pull a number out of my kitten , the forums would probably be less than 1% of the player-base.

That argument holds no merit. The “vocal minority” can represent the majority of the player base. We don’t know what the answer is either way, so to dismiss it as such is complete nonsense.

My opinion as a player can reflect the opinion of the large % of the player base. Or it cannot. So unless people have proof one way or anything. To deny or diminish feedback based on those criteria is stupid.

Generally, the if the “silent majority” don’t like things in the game they silently quit.

Karizee.8076:

Ahlen.7591:

AntiGw.9367:

Ahlen.7591:

You have to understand that the forums are an extreme minority of the player-base. If I had to pull a number out of my kitten , the forums would probably be less than 1% of the player-base.

More like less than 0.01%.

Assuming an active population of about 2 million players, a huge hot topic that receives 200 posts by separate people (4-5 forum pages) represents 0.01% of those two millions.

I believe there’s an active population of 400,000 though, not 2 million.

Actually it’s 2.5 million with a concurrency of 460,000 (concurrency is the number of players logged in at the same time).

That concurrency was at launch. Concurrency figures drop for all MMOs after launch. I would be shocked if GW2 had concurrency right now over 100k. We don’t know how many active players GW2 has. It could be 100k or 3 million, without data from developers we are all making numbers up.

eisberg.2379:

Xcom.1926:

Poplolita.2638:

Xcom.1926:

Poplolita.2638:

I don’t care. No contents locks me out for not having x item level like every other mmos. I don’t need ascended or legendary to do the contents I want.

We will see how this turns out. Because it will be hard to balance content to make it challenging for people will ascended and at the same time not make it too hard for people without it.

When I said lock. I really meant lock like in the literal term. “You can’t enter this dungeon because you do not have an itemlevel higher than x”. For now, gw2 doesn’t have this system, and I’m happy with it. I’m not going to get stuck with assumptions or predictions that may happen or not like you seem to be.

I am pretty sure you can enter any content in any MMO without needing the gear. You just can’t use the queue system for it.

You can’t even come close to completing the content without the gear. Take WoW for instance, there was no way a group of people in Blue gear could take on Naxx (Tier 3 raid), take that in comparison to Guild Wars 2 where you can complete everything wearing blue gear.

I was just correcting him. You are not locked. If you “take your time” you can level in that game and do all the level 15-90 dungeons/raids in all blues if you wanted to, save for a select few top tier max level raids. Basically you can do 99% of the content in blues.

Sanduskel.1850:

Imagi.4561:

Sanduskel.1850:

DanH.5879:

so, while the other classes get super bonuses, thief gets nerfed more

well… thief hate at it’s finest….

lol thieves aren’t getting nerfed. scrub permastealthers ruin the game for everyone, especially decent thieves.

We get it. You don’t like stealth.

I’m a thief who hates what permastealth has done to my class.

Sure buddy.

Poplolita.2638:

Xcom.1926:

Poplolita.2638:

I don’t care. No contents locks me out for not having x item level like every other mmos. I don’t need ascended or legendary to do the contents I want.

We will see how this turns out. Because it will be hard to balance content to make it challenging for people will ascended and at the same time not make it too hard for people without it.

When I said lock. I really meant lock like in the literal term. “You can’t enter this dungeon because you do not have an itemlevel higher than x”. For now, gw2 doesn’t have this system, and I’m happy with it. I’m not going to get stuck with assumptions or predictions that may happen or not like you seem to be.

I am pretty sure you can enter any content in any MMO without needing the gear. You just can’t use the queue system for it.

eisberg.2379:

Xcom.1926:

eisberg.2379:

Xcom.1926:

eisberg.2379:

I don’t see the grind. Getting a legendary, that is a grind. Getting Raid gear in WoW to participate in the next raid by repeating the same exact boss fight over and over and over again with it getting easier each and every time for months to come, that is a grind. Getting all the ascended stuff by doing the same kind of stuff I have been doing since level 1, that isn’t a grind. Sure it takes time, but it is all optional, and there no hurry to get it.

Grinding is not necessarily doing the same thing over and over again, by the way, although it can be. Here is an example of what needs to be done to get trinkets:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Fixing-Ascended-Gear/first

If that is not grinding, I don’t know what is. This is the very definition of grinding. What makes it worse is that it is time gated.

Also, I don’t see how you could call legendaries a grind but not ascended?

yeah, and what I see is gaining ascended stuff by just doing the stuff I normally do anyways, sure it takes time, but there is no need for them anyways. /shrug

Sure, doing 6 guild missions every week for 4 weeks, being a small part to the recipe to craft ascended trinkets is something you do normally. You might be the hardcore type. For most casual players getting a trinket itself would take 3-4 months at the very least.

I am a casual players, been playing the game since release, and only have about 300 hours played, and 3-4 months is fine with me. The key point here, it is not needed.

Oh then good, you will probably never see an ascended piece. Here is my point in the whole thing. I am sure Arenanet had a reason to put in ascended although it wasn’t originally intended. They probably have a good reason for it, either because Chinese players will want something like that or because they saw terrible retention in players at launch and realized things needed to change. Or something else.

But in 8-10 months. When a good portion of the population has ascended gear and are stronger than the casuals or the average Joe. How are they going to balance dungeons to make it challenging enough for the ascended player and not to hard for the casual? That is the fear of the power creep that GW2 now has.

Not to mention for people that play this game solely for WvW, they will almost have to get it to compete in WvW.

eisberg.2379:

Xcom.1926:

eisberg.2379:

I don’t see the grind. Getting a legendary, that is a grind. Getting Raid gear in WoW to participate in the next raid by repeating the same exact boss fight over and over and over again with it getting easier each and every time for months to come, that is a grind. Getting all the ascended stuff by doing the same kind of stuff I have been doing since level 1, that isn’t a grind. Sure it takes time, but it is all optional, and there no hurry to get it.

Grinding is not necessarily doing the same thing over and over again, by the way, although it can be. Here is an example of what needs to be done to get trinkets:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Fixing-Ascended-Gear/first

If that is not grinding, I don’t know what is. This is the very definition of grinding. What makes it worse is that it is time gated.

Also, I don’t see how you could call legendaries a grind but not ascended?

yeah, and what I see is gaining ascended stuff by just doing the stuff I normally do anyways, sure it takes time, but there is no need for them anyways. /shrug

Sure, doing 6 guild missions every week for 4 weeks, being a small part to the recipe to craft ascended trinkets is something you do normally. You might be the hardcore type. For most casual players getting a trinket itself would take 3-4 months at the very least.

eisberg.2379:

I don’t see the grind. Getting a legendary, that is a grind. Getting Raid gear in WoW to participate in the next raid by repeating the same exact boss fight over and over and over again with it getting easier each and every time for months to come, that is a grind. Getting all the ascended stuff by doing the same kind of stuff I have been doing since level 1, that isn’t a grind. Sure it takes time, but it is all optional, and there no hurry to get it.

Grinding is not necessarily doing the same thing over and over again, by the way, although it can be. Here is an example of what needs to be done to get trinkets:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Fixing-Ascended-Gear/first

If that is not grinding, I don’t know what is. This is the very definition of grinding. What makes it worse is that it is time gated.

Also, I don’t see how you could call legendaries a grind but not ascended?

coglin.1867:

I am curious. It has been a year. I see post here who list everything in the game and complain about it. If you dislike all of those aspects of the game, AFTER A FULL YEAR, why are you here trolling the forums?

My server is jam packed with players. I can literally go as far as the “The Grove” and find more players cutting up in map chat having fun, then there are negative posters here. So what makes you very small handful of players, feel Your complaints are more valid then our fun?

People will always whine. Even 5 years from now. Most of it is not trolling but negative criticism, although trolling exists.

And it must be nice being on a T1 server.

eisberg.2379:

Xcom.1926:

eisberg.2379:

Xcom.1926:

eisberg.2379:

Again, in the context of the paragraph, he said they do not want people to grind to get the fun stuff, and they did that. I can’t think of any MMO, other than Guild Wars 2, that doesn’t make you grind to get to the fun stuff. In WoW, want to go on to the next raid? Sorry, you can’t, you have to raid this same raid over and over and over again for months to get the gear you need to to go to the next raid. I did the raiding scene on many other MMOs, and it was a huge grind to get on to the next raid, even though our guild could almost do the previous raid blind folded, it posed no challenge anymore, nor did we ever see anything new in the raid.

And no, the person I quoted was not right at all. He is only right if you take that phrase out of context.

And yes, they did fulfill what they put in the manifesto if you keep everything in context of what they were talking about.

Yeah if the context is they didn’t accomplish anything they set out to do, yeah then we can take them in context. You and 12 other people can keep believing that. The real context is them saying things like that along with saying things like this:

“Here’s what we believe: If someone wants to play for a thousand hours to get an item that is so rare that other players can’t realistically acquire it, that rare item should be differentiated by its visual appearance and rarity alone, not by being more powerful than everything else in the game. Otherwise, your MMO becomes all about grinding to get the best gear. We don’t make grindy games — we leave the grind to other MMOs.” -Mike O’Brien, President of Arenanet

Yup, and the item that takes 1000s of hours that other players can’t realistically acquire is differentiated by appearance … its called legendary. Ascended doesn’t take thousands of hours to grind, and it is very much realistic for players to get.

But ascended is more powerful. And players will try and grind to get the best gear in the game. Exotics isn’t good enough. You seem to have ignored the most important part of the whole thing. Convenient.

Just so you know, Colin said that they didn’t plan to put ascended into the game. They underestimated how quickly people got ascended which is why they put ascended items into the game.

This game was supposed to be about vertical progression but it isn’t anymore. It became just like every other MMO in that regard. Grind for hours on end to get the best gear.

ok? Still doesn’t take 1000s of hours to get an ascended item, also it is realistically in the reach of the average player. I don’t ever remember Anet stating there was going to be no Vertical progression prior to the game releasing, I don’t remember them ever stating that it was all supposed to be about getting skins, and horizontal progression. Sounds like a lot of assumptions were made, unless you got some quotes from them prior to the release of the game?

But it still is a grind to get the best gear in the game. We are all going to grind for the best gear in the game. The game became about grinding for the best gear in the game. Previously to ascended this was not the case. Which is what GW2 didn’t set out to be. At release you saw that plan in motion. You got skins for doing dungeons. And exotics were cap. Same with legendaries. Sometime went wrong along the way and they changed they did a 180 on their original plan. And I am sure they had their reason for it.

tigirius.9014:

As far as OP is concerned I’d like to know the answer to the PVE question as well. We’ve been asking it for a year now and no answer. Hopefully now that they’ve extended the arm of collaboration we’ll get some kind of answer as to why it was never done that way.

They answered the question:

http://youtu.be/Jy7CcwnfUdU?t=1m48s

He said they underestimated how quickly people would get exotics. He said exotics were supposed to be the upper tier, but it wasn’t. So now ascended will do what exotics were supposed to do. Basically ascended is a mistake, to a problem they had to fix.

But he hints that it might be the last tier, but no promises.

As per the “swing the sword” comment, what else can you expect? It is an video game after all. The whole thing was a marketing/PR piece to get people to buy the game. Off course you are just going to swing your sword.

You know just like the “event doesn’t respawn 10 minutes later” part.

eisberg.2379:

Xcom.1926:

eisberg.2379:

Again, in the context of the paragraph, he said they do not want people to grind to get the fun stuff, and they did that. I can’t think of any MMO, other than Guild Wars 2, that doesn’t make you grind to get to the fun stuff. In WoW, want to go on to the next raid? Sorry, you can’t, you have to raid this same raid over and over and over again for months to get the gear you need to to go to the next raid. I did the raiding scene on many other MMOs, and it was a huge grind to get on to the next raid, even though our guild could almost do the previous raid blind folded, it posed no challenge anymore, nor did we ever see anything new in the raid.

And no, the person I quoted was not right at all. He is only right if you take that phrase out of context.

And yes, they did fulfill what they put in the manifesto if you keep everything in context of what they were talking about.

Yeah if the context is they didn’t accomplish anything they set out to do, yeah then we can take them in context. You and 12 other people can keep believing that. The real context is them saying things like that along with saying things like this:

“Here’s what we believe: If someone wants to play for a thousand hours to get an item that is so rare that other players can’t realistically acquire it, that rare item should be differentiated by its visual appearance and rarity alone, not by being more powerful than everything else in the game. Otherwise, your MMO becomes all about grinding to get the best gear. We don’t make grindy games — we leave the grind to other MMOs.” -Mike O’Brien, President of Arenanet

Yup, and the item that takes 1000s of hours that other players can’t realistically acquire is differentiated by appearance … its called legendary. Ascended doesn’t take thousands of hours to grind, and it is very much realistic for players to get.

But ascended is more powerful. And players will try and grind to get the best gear in the game. Exotics isn’t good enough. You seem to have ignored the most important part of the whole thing. Especially the “we don’t make grindy games”. Convenient.

The main point is, this game was supposed to be about vertical progression but it isn’t anymore. It became just like every other MMO in that regard. Grind for hours on end to get the best gear in the game.

Poplolita.2638:

I don’t care. No contents locks me out for not having x item level like every other mmos. I don’t need ascended or legendary to do the contents I want.

We will see how this turns out. Because it will be hard to balance content to make it challenging for people will ascended and at the same time not make it too hard for people without it.

eisberg.2379:

Again, in the context of the paragraph, he said they do not want people to grind to get the fun stuff, and they did that. I can’t think of any MMO, other than Guild Wars 2, that doesn’t make you grind to get to the fun stuff. In WoW, want to go on to the next raid? Sorry, you can’t, you have to raid this same raid over and over and over again for months to get the gear you need to to go to the next raid. I did the raiding scene on many other MMOs, and it was a huge grind to get on to the next raid, even though our guild could almost do the previous raid blind folded, it posed no challenge anymore, nor did we ever see anything new in the raid.

And no, the person I quoted was not right at all. He is only right if you take that phrase out of context.

And yes, they did fulfill what they put in the manifesto if you keep everything in context of what they were talking about.

Yeah if the context is they didn’t accomplish anything they set out to do, yeah then we can take them in context. You and 12 other people can keep believing that. The real context is them saying things like that along with saying things like this:

“Here’s what we believe: If someone wants to play for a thousand hours to get an item that is so rare that other players can’t realistically acquire it, that rare item should be differentiated by its visual appearance and rarity alone, not by being more powerful than everything else in the game. Otherwise, your MMO becomes all about grinding to get the best gear. We don’t make grindy games — we leave the grind to other MMOs.” -Mike O’Brien, President of Arenanet

eisberg.2379:

Xcom.1926:

eisberg.2379:

Datsuni.4678:

PVE:
As a last question: Could the ppl on anet watch their “manifesto” again and tell the ppl on forums: How is this game’s pve not about “swinging your sword” over and over again?
( like Paul Barnet saying: there will not be a healer going i heal and i heal again / facepalm)

3 Days after release of manifesto, Colin talked more about what was in the manifesto, and what you think it means and what he was actually talking about is 2 different things.

Link or source to this? I don’t want to get into an argument about the whole Manifesto thing again, but I want to see what Colin had to say about it.

Ok, I was wrong about it being a part of the Manifesto Reactions Blog released 3 days after the manifest released, that explanation wasn’t in there. But if you go to the official wiki they have the whole quote:

Colin

“When you look at the art in our game, you say ‘Wow, that’s visually stunning. I’ve never seen anything like that before,’ and then when you play the combat in our game, you say ‘Wow, that’s incredible. I’ve never seen anything like that.’ In most games, you go out, and you have really fun tasks, occasionally, that you get to do, and the rest of the game is this boring grind to get to the fun stuff. ‘I swung a sword. I swung a sword again. Hey! I swung it again.’ That’s great. We just don’t want players to grind in Guild Wars 2. No one enjoys that. No one finds it fun. We want to change the way that people view combat.”

What he was talking about is doing boring grinds to get to the fun stuff. Taking that one phrase out of the whole paragraph takes it completely out of context.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/ArenaNet's_MMO_Manifesto_trailer

Yeah but he also said, "We just don’t want players to grind in Guild Wars 2. No one enjoys that. No one finds it fun. "

Also, in the aspect of “grinding stuff to get the the fun stuff”, what MMO makes you grind to get to the fun stuff? I can’t think of any. It seems like all MMOs are the same in this regard.

Regardless, the person you quoted talked about “swinging the sword again and again”, and he was right in that regard.

I am over that, I understand things change in MMOs. But lets not act like they actually fulfilled what is in there.

eisberg.2379:

Datsuni.4678:

PVE:
As a last question: Could the ppl on anet watch their “manifesto” again and tell the ppl on forums: How is this game’s pve not about “swinging your sword” over and over again?
( like Paul Barnet saying: there will not be a healer going i heal and i heal again / facepalm)

3 Days after release of manifesto, Colin talked more about what was in the manifesto, and what you think it means and what he was actually talking about is 2 different things.

Link or source to this? I don’t want to get into an argument about the whole Manifesto thing again, but I want to see what Colin had to say about it.

They want this to be the last tier, at least that is what they say. So they want it to take a while to get it.

In the future, maybe an expansion it would be awesome if we see more skills per weapon type. 3-5 per weapon would be awesome.

coglin.1867:

Actually Siva Mira, players do like it. You assume because you do not, or that a select few of the vocal minority make a complaint post, that it must be an unarguable fact that the entire player base is on board with your perspective.

But you are also assuming players do like it, when that could be far from the case. Which is why I hate that argument, and I don’t like that a developer brought it up. All it does it turn discussions into the idiotic “You don’t represent all players” argument from both sides of the table.

Off course you don’t, no one does, everyone knows that. The fact that it was brought is just to minimize your opinion to say it doesn’t matter as much.

When Shimmerless above said “we really need as players transparency from the devs”, is he speaking for all players? No. It is just a general term. And to try and silence people from using that is stupid.

• The forums can represent a vocal minority.
• The forums can represent the majority of the player base.

We don’t know what they represent, and unless ANet has some extensive polling, no one does. That said, I do agree with Josh’s rules in 1,2,3,4.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

jalmari.3906:

i have no idea whatsoever why anyone would really want to play any of these minigames. playing 3-4 rounds dragon ball once a year is enough minigames for most.

well, it would be a nice break from the normal farming, dungeoning etc

It is like fishing in other MMOs, some nice minigames are a good distraction once in a while. You don’t have to do it all the time, but once here and there for fun.

I personally love idea 2. Not only will it motivate you to level your main character, but an account wide bonus will motivate you to level other WvW characters. I personally prefer account bound wxp, but I understand their point of view on this.

Bunnymancer.6901:

In this topic: A whole bunch of skilless warriors trying to defend being the most OP and being buffed.

Who you calling skill-less bro?

It won’t stop anyone. In South Korea, they have people’s social security numbers tied to their online identities and trolling is pretty horrible there.

Blizzard tried to enforce real name on forums, it got so bad that the President of Blizzard had to go on the forums and apologize for the decision.

Basically it will never happen, and even if it does, it won’t work.

EgonVenkman.1907:

Chris starts up topics on how to improve things, Josh posts all the reasons why it can’t/won’t be done. Sounds like more of the same Anet double speak we’re used to. One side says, “We’ll never do that….” 2 months later, “Get used to it. It’s happening.”

There is ALWAYS a reason something can’t be done. Easy to find reasons; staff, complexity, talent, time, etc….. Time to start finding solutions instead of excuses

I agree with Josh’s rules, but eventually players will want to see solutions to said issues. I personally understand you guys are hard working, love what you are doing, love the game and want to make it the best it possibly can be, I also understand that sometimes what you say can’t be done.

However, points 2, 3, 4 & 5 sound like excuses as to why things are not done on time, why “promises” are not met and why there is a perceived lack of direction to this game. They are all valid reasons, but unfortunately, to be totally blunt as you can see on these forums, players want to see solutions.

At the end of the day, regardless of the forums or not. Regardless of communication or not, the proof is in the pudding, results need to be seen in game. And solutions to problem either real or perceived also need to be seen in game.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Hi,

As detailed in the thread the point of this initiative is to get us back to a more constructive dialog. We have been super super busy all this year and with the help of the community we are trying to create a sustainable process in which we can have constructive discussion and brainstorming around specific areas of the game without hampering the output or quality of the GW2. We hope that this process works out and that we will see 2 way discussion from the community and devs on a daily basis across all the areas of the game.

Chris, I actually think most of the posts on these forums were actually constructive. Yes there were some with anger and trolling but most were constructive. However, a lot of the constructive ones were negative (some extremely negative). And I have noticed they are getting more negative as time goes on. I notice these three topics mostly:

• Promises not being met (real or perceived)
• Things/balance not being fixed or looked at quickly enough. (Some have taken a long time to be fixed or even addressed)
• Expectations of content (temp vs perma; 2-week updates vs. something else)

I personally think, unless those things are addressed and communicated correctly, nothing will change.

Thanks.