Guild Wars 2

Sanduskel.1850:

Jinks.2057:

mrstealth.6701:

ArchonWing.9480:

Except they are part of the competition. Just not in the way people demand…

snip

It’s time to stop posting b/c its well documented, even in the apology, that WvW is to played how each individual wants to play it.

All you are doing is making yourself look bad and misrepresenting your server.

Enough.

So you are a mod now?

He hasn’t turned on his ANet tag yet.

LeifChappelle.4069:

Hey everyone. I know there’s some folks upset by the decision to make this new level 80 path in Twilight Arbor take the place of the Forward Up path. I hear the complaints directed toward that fact. That said, there’s several reasons why we came to the conclusion we did.

From a lore perspective, the story of Twilight Arbor repeatable is a lot like a “what if?” situation. Who gets to the Nightmare Tree first? Scarlet is now present in the arbor, and that presence has a very tangible effect on how the Nightmare Court can pull off their race to the tree. Because of that presence, the possibilities are narrowed, and Fyonna will not be able to make it to the tree in time.

From a design standpoint, we want the Living World updates to change and have an impact on the world. Earlier in the year, Colin gave the example of blowing up a dungeon and replacing it. This is very much that example in action. Because the explorable paths of Twilight Arbor were very similar from a content perspective, we made the decision to create a new path to revitalize one of the existing ones. Forward Up was one of the least played dungeon paths in the game, and was the best candidate for doing something like this.

I know my explanation won’t make everyone happy, but I hope it at least gives you some insight into the decision we made. Everyone on the team is really proud of how the new path has come together, so I’m hoping you give it a try on Tuesday and let us know what you think.

Can you guys please give players advance notice when you remove things like this? In the other MMO that shall not be named, they used to give you months notice when they removed things like quests or achievements or armor or dungeons.

Please think of players when making decisions like this. Seems like sometimes these decisions are made in a bubble.

TexZero.7910:

It’s not my fault you fear the change but its my opinion that im utterly glad they blew up F/U for this new path and i hope they take the same approach for more dungeons going forward.

What does “fear of change” have anything to do with it? Stop throwing around meaningless terms. Because even if they added a new path it would be a “change” regardless.

I watched the whole thing, good casting, entertain matches. It never hit 2,000 viewers although people in chat were pushing for it. It hovered around 1,300 – 1,500 concurrent viewers on average. The Finals has about 1,000 – 1,100 viewers but it was late that time especially on the East Coast.

NevirSayDie.6235:

It was certainly not an attempt to impress millions and gain boatloads of new PvP players, if that’s what you’re after. It was something like a trial run, wasn’t advertised, relatively small prize pool, etc. I think they just wanted to start to lay some groundwork so that IF things go well and they start putting on some big stuff, the networking/experience will already be in place.

MLG recently dropped Starcraft 2 from their lineup even though it used to have 200k+ concurrent viewers. So yes this was a trial run, but I don’t see it happening again, unless it is for advertising purposes. And since ANet was providing the cash prize it did seem like a ANet run event, because generally MLG provides the winner with prizes.

Motoko.2875:

What? WoW PvP never came close to the popularity that GW PvP reached. GW1 PvP was easily one if the first if not the pioneer in eSport gaming. (ignore FPS for a second).

At its peak in viewership, around 2009. WoW arenas used to get 80K+ concurrent viewers at MLG events. I don’t think GW1 was ever at MLG or came close to those type of numbers. Not because the game was bad or anything, but because WoW was way more popular.

Motoko.2875:

Zinwrath.2049:

Motoko.2875:

What? WoW PvP never came close to the popularity that GW PvP reached. GW1 PvP was easily one if the first if not the pioneer in eSport gaming. (ignore FPS for a second).

Uhm….you should google starcraft…….

SC isn’t a MOBA.

When comparing, please stay in the same genre. It helps your argument make more sense.

What does MOBA have to do with anything? You said GW1 was “the first if not the pioneer” of eSports (save FPS). And the other guy said it was probably Starcraft. Which is true.

ahuba.6430:

Xcom.1926:

That list is terrible, they don’t have games like Oblivion? How about WoW: Burning Crusade? Arma 2? I don’t like the fact that they put all the franchise games into one.

Regardless, it shows how bad PC games are in the last decade. There are good games, but nothing compared to consoles.

You can no longer play burning crusade, so they put the latest WoW installment I guess.

That wouldn’t explain not including Oblivion. PC Gamer for example put Oblivion as their 3rd best PC game of all time.

Darnis.4056:

Mathias.9657:

And what forum is as bad as GW2’s? 90% of this forum is against ANet.

I have no seen so much hate on a gaming forum, even WoW has cleaner forums and half the playerbase there are nothing but trolls.

I’m sorry but if most your forum is littered with people telling you what a crap job you’re doing, there is something wrong. It’s not merely a “let’s hop on the hate train because yolo!”

League Of Legends.

Really? Seems like they are fine.

http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/forumdisplay.php?f=2

That list is terrible, they don’t have games like Oblivion? How about WoW: Burning Crusade? Arma 2? I don’t like the fact that they put all the franchise games into one.

Regardless, it shows how bad PC games are in the last decade. There are good games, but nothing compared to consoles.

BLUna.7928:

Around 1.5 thousand, but keep in mind that it was announced only 2 days before the event and held during what was a very inconvenient timeslot for many people IMO.

No offense, but if you think that is the issue, you don’t get it. Is bad advertising and a bad time slot the reason for the abysmal participation rates in sPvP? If people aren’t playing, it people aren’t going to watch it.

You need to first make the game itself playable and fun and populated before thinking about advertising and marketing the eSports element. Without a solid foundation, you can market it to hell and back, but people aren’t going to be watching it.

kitten s.7421:

I want to know how many viewers their were. I need a good laugh.

About 1,000 during the finals. Never hit 2,000 viewers. However, it was a well produced and casted tournament. And had some great matches.

The future growth argument doesn’t work with this saturated genre. Next year the next shiney MMO will get all the eSport love.

Bismuth.3165:

Yeah, my cousins told me to come and play tera with them and I created a sorcerer, they can’t attack while moving (they can with some skills, very few), they don’t have traits, and they only use 1 weapon, the quests are mostly kill X monster, very basic, and the combat isn’t even that fun, I got him to level 16 and quit.

The stop while casting is a balance mechanism, which most action combat games have. Including games like Diablo, God of War and most other action games including fighting games (Street Fighter).

They do that because of risk/reward mechanic which GW2 struggles with. Without risk/reward your combat becomes a random button mash with no consequences for your mistakes.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Offense-vs-punishment-risk-vs-reward/

This is what happens with a lot of MMOs, especially MMOs with high expectations. It is not spoiled but more disappointment. Which is why hype is not good for MMOs. Players get disappointed if you hype the game to levels in which it can’t react expectations (See Manifesto)

First in forums it is the honeymoon phase, before launch and right after launch everyone loves the game.

Then comes most positivity and some negativity.

Then it is half negative and half positive.

Eventually negativity takes over the forums.

Then players tell others to stop complaining and tells them things like they are spoiled.
See: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=487853

Soon people telling others to stop complaining go away, and the forums are all negative.

Eventually all the people that complain quit the game. And the forum becomes more of a niche community of people that mostly like the game.

At the end of the day it is bad for the game regardless. I do think complains have something behind them. I disagree that all forums are 90% negative though. The WoW forums for example are half positive/half negative. Don’t believe me, take a look yourself.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/984270/

Riondron.1069:

Xcom.1926:

Riondron.1069:

Sube Dai.8496:

@Riondron – none of that means kitten if no one is playing the game.

People are complaining because they care. And if ANet continues to ignore what people say, they won’t have any players left.

Over 3,500,000 copies of GW2 was sold just in the first year. Are you seriously going suggest that All of those players will leave the game, just because 1,000 or even 10,000 players are crying foul?…..I don’t even know how to respond to that.

Copies sold doesn’t mean players playing. As they say with MMOs, box sales mean nothing, retention means everything.

Diablo 3 sold 12 million copies in 2012, but during the end of 2012 only 1 million people were still playing it. (i.e. 12 million people are not playing Diablo 3) I would not be surprised if GW2 had a similar ratio.

Last time I checked, GW2 was not Diablo 3. Just sayin’

Last time I checked, I didn’t say GW2 was D3. Just sayin’

Riondron.1069:

Sube Dai.8496:

@Riondron – none of that means kitten if no one is playing the game.

People are complaining because they care. And if ANet continues to ignore what people say, they won’t have any players left.

Over 3,500,000 copies of GW2 was sold just in the first year. Are you seriously going suggest that All of those players will leave the game, just because 1,000 or even 10,000 players are crying foul?…..I don’t even know how to respond to that.

Copies sold doesn’t mean players playing. As they say with MMOs, box sales mean nothing, retention means everything.

Diablo 3 sold 12 million copies in 2012, but during the end of 2012 only 1 million people were still playing it. (i.e. 12 million people are not playing Diablo 3) I would not be surprised if GW2 had a similar ratio.

Konrad Curze.5130:

the raison d’etre for 3 factions was so the weaker 2 could arrange truces of sorts, band up against the stronger one and beat on it till the power levels were similar

last but not least, the ppt mechanic makes alliances largely unviable. for the second server, it makes far more sense beating on the weaker one to get more points/rating than allying with it.

basically ANet made a 3 faction game just because DAOC did it too, but completly failing to understand the reasons behind it.

Agreed with your post 100%, but this all seems like common sense. How could ANet just miss this? Seems like such a terrible design.

Based on the current design, 3-factions is irrelevant. Two factions fighting each other would have been better. There is zero incentive to gang up and fight the stronger party.

I had to laugh at Riondron copy/paste post because it has nothing to do with the discussion. Those rules are completely irrelevant and mean nothing in terms of this topic. All it says is “ANet can do whatever they want”. Sure they can. And as customers people can tell them how they feel.

Are you saying ANet is going to ban people if they GvG in WvW? They would never do something like that in a million years. That action itself would be a death sentence in terms of PR.

People want “3-Faction” and “3-Server” over “2-Faction” and “2-Server” because we assume 3-server would be more balanced after taking examples from games such as DAoC and PlanetSide. But obviously we have seen terrible balance in almost all the tiers in GW2.

In hindsight, would 2 servers facing each other be better for GW2? Was taking ideas from other games a bad idea in this case?

For example, would it have been a better matchup this week if Blackgate faced SoR in one matchup and JQ faced TC in another matchup?

http://mos.millenium.org/na

Konrad Curze.5130:

Xcom.1926:

Have No Faith In Me.1840:

If I am not mistaken they’re making a new game, titled Camelot Unchained?

Jacobs is the only guy from DAoC that is making Camelot Unchained as far as I am aware, but he was probably the biggest force behind DAoC and its design.

nah, Firor was. Jacobs was the genius behind ToA and later expacs, also at the helm of WAR’s debacle, where his greatest input was WAR’s lol-worthy crafting system.

I mean in terms of the whole concept of 3 faction RvR, Jacobs said he came up with the idea after playing a game that had 3 nation plane combat. Forgot what the name of the game was.

Edit: Found it.

Why PvP instead of a PvE focus? And how was the Realm vs. Realm format born?

Jacobs: I love PvE games but I knew that going against the PvE champ EQ was a losing proposition. We didn’t have the time and money to try to beat EQ so, borrowing an old baseball axiom, I wanted us to “hit it where it ain’t” and we did. As to the RvR format, credit for that idea goes, as it always has, to the guys at Kesmai who created Air Warrior. As a long time player and fan of that game, I saw the advantages of having three realms that fight against each other. So, once I knew that I wanted an RvR game, I knew I needed the IP to go with it and well, as above, the shower led the way.

But I am sure Firor was the brains behind the design. Jacobs probably provided the idea.

Ghoulina.2976:

Gotta love the DOAC comments.. and that game is still hugely successful, am I right? Hmm, musta been some crappy stuff about that game that drove people to other games.

That is a pretty hilarious comment, when GW2’s WvW is basically a clone of DAoC RvR. The ANet devs themselves stated it was their inspiration. Even to the very fact that players name are not visible by enemies is taken from DAoC. I am also certain there are former Mythic devs on the ANet staff.

So I am sure they can use additional tips from DAoC in terms of how scoring worked.

Have No Faith In Me.1840:

If I am not mistaken they’re making a new game, titled Camelot Unchained?

Jacobs is the only guy from DAoC that is making Camelot Unchained as far as I am aware, but he was probably the biggest force behind DAoC and its design.

But even Elder Scrolls Online has a lot of DAoC devs including the DAoC Game Director (Firor), which is probably why they also have 3-faction RvR in their game.

mrstealth.6701:

Xcom.1926:

In an MMO you should play how you would like to play as long as you are not going against the ToS. If I just wanted to chain jumping puzzles in WvW I should be able to do that. If I want chain duel other players I should be able to do that. If I want to just kill PvE mobs over and over again, I should be able to do that. The company shouldn’t be telling me “Hey you can’t just kill NPC mobs here you need to kill other players”. If it gets to that point, they failed in designing the game properly. And they need to take steps to fix it.

I do generally agree with that assessment, but there are more limits than just the ToS. Just because something isn’t explicitly forbidden by the ToS, does not mean it’s right or acceptable to do. This is especially true in situations where your actions can impact other players.

If you want to level by grinding mobs, you aren’t really effecting anyone else. If you decide to complete a dungeon using a certain tactic, you are only effecting your party, a group of people that have already chosen to play with you specifically.

There isn’t any part of the ToS that tells me I can’t go to Sparkfly Fen, take one of the turrets at the Tequatl fight, and use it to do nothing but kill the mobs that spawn around that area. However, I don’t think you’ll find anyone that could consider that right or ok to do. It’s not forbidden by the ToS, but it certainly has a considerable negative impact on everyone else there.

Sometimes you just have to play something as it was designed, or at least make some effort to avoid interfering with those that are.

There are significantly bigger problems in WvW that effect other players experience, least of which are players dueling each other. The fact that each match-up is a blow out in all tiers except 1 (maybe 2) is probably the biggest issue. Having played on ET for almost a year I can tell you that from personal experience, it was so bad that I just stopped queuing for WvW.

Regardless, what you said is a game design issue not a player issue. Players should be able to do what they are doing. ANet should never tell players they shouldn’t be doing what they are doing as long as it is not against ToS. Because if they do, it puts them in a very sticky situation.

mrstealth.6701:

The most important part is that it’s WvW, not GvG. WvW is in the intended and designed game format, so of course that takes priority. GvG is not “another aspect of this gametype”, it’s a separate player-generated gametype that happens on the same maps.

I disagree with this completely. In an MMO you should play how you would like to play as long as you are not going against the ToS. If I just wanted to chain jumping puzzles in WvW I should be able to do that. If I want chain duel other players in WvW I should be able to do that. If I want to just kill PvE mobs over and over again in WvW, I should be able to do that. The company shouldn’t be telling me “Hey you can’t just kill NPC mobs here you need to kill other players”. If it gets to that point, they failed in designing the game properly. And they need to take steps to fix it.

If the game is designed to level from 1-80 doing heart quests, but I like to grind on mobs over and over again to get to level 80, I should be able to do that. Even though it wasn’t designed for that type of game play.

This should be the case in all aspects of the game just not WvW and that is how it works in almost all MMOs. If anything Anet should realize that players like to GvG and do something to cater to them instead of bashing them and telling them to go away. To me that shows a lot about the character of a company, in a bad way. Chris Whiteside’s words are what ANet should ideally be.

Companies should never blame the players for playing the game. They should either blame the design of WvW or give the players a venue to do what they want to do. Games like DayZ and DotA were born out of gameplay that the company didn’t intend.

It just feels so wrong looking at that video. Players gathered and were doing something they like to do. And a dev tells them they shouldn’t be doing that in “his game”. That to me goes against everything an MMO should be.

And the worst thing about all of this? ANet caused a conflict between their own players, that is just unhealthy. Not only did they cause it, they are fueling the fires of it instead of putting it out. Don’t turn your own player base against each other. But that is all I have seen from ANet lately.

Vayne.8563:

Xcom.1926:

Vayne.8563:

I don’t care if you believe me. The conversation happened. It’s not relevant to me whether you believe me or not. The fact that my own observations back up what he said is another matter.

Anyone with eyes can see people logging in and playing on patch day. Multiple overflows all over the place. Even if people only play for a week, and stop again for a week, there’s still high concurrency for that week.

Or did you think overflows spawned all by themselves for no reason?

Overflows happen on T1/T2 servers. Ocassionally T3 servers but that is about it.

About the dev you spoke to. Usually in most MMOs the higher ups only have that type of info. So in GW2’s case it would be Mike O’Brien or Colin and maybe the higher ups in NCSoft. They don’t share that type of concurrency info with all Devs, only a select few. This is the case not just with GW2 but most MMOs. The info is too sensitive to share with everyone.

I’m telling you what he told me. It’s pretty obviously what he’s been told. Why would he lie?

Developers do try to paint the best picture of their game, it is just natural. We don’t know exactly what that developer said or the context of the convo. But if he said “Population goes up during patch day”, I believe him. If he said “Concurrency is going up since launch” I absolutely don’t, since Izzy already said there was a post launch decline. It really depends on the context. “Concurrency gone up since last month” I would also believe as an example of context.

Once example is this:

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/367/view/news/read/24266/Erickson-Denies-Declining-Sub-Numbers.html

An SWTOR dev said sub numbers weren’t declining, the next month or so EA said it declined. Yes I don’t believe developers because if you know anything about statistics you an mold it to fit your pretty little definition.

IndigoSundown.5419:

You’re on TC, iirc. TC is a popular server.

I learned my lesson and moved to a T1 server (not TC but Blackgate), such a better experience.

Riondron.1069:

Xcom.1926:

Riondron.1069:

Xcom.1926:

Taldren.7523:

So wait, you GvG lamers locked down a whole zone with queue times from people that actually wanted to use it for its intended purpose and its ANets fault for pointing out that you doing so?

I have a few ideas of what ANET can do with your GvG bs.

There are no queues in WvW save for T1 and maybe T2 servers. There were no queues in this case.

LMAO WHAT??? No queues in wvw except for T1 & T2? I have never played on or against kitten, and I have been in several queue’s ranging from 5 seconds up to an hour. That is one of the most blatantly false statements that I have ever heard!

When was the last time you had a queue on ET?

When was the first time that I said it was on ET? Better look at my sig a little better. ET just may not have been the only server that I have played on….. and just for the record, I moved to ET last week.

I looked at your sig and it said ET, that is why I assumed it was ET. I don’t care when or why you moved.

Riondron.1069:

Xcom.1926:

Taldren.7523:

So wait, you GvG lamers locked down a whole zone with queue times from people that actually wanted to use it for its intended purpose and its ANets fault for pointing out that you doing so?

I have a few ideas of what ANET can do with your GvG bs.

There are no queues in WvW save for T1 and maybe T2 servers. There were no queues in this case.

LMAO WHAT??? No queues in wvw except for T1 & T2? I have never played on or against kitten, and I have been in several queue’s ranging from 5 seconds up to an hour. That is one of the most blatantly false statements that I have ever heard!

When was the last time you had a queue on ET? I have played on several servers outside of Tier 1-3 including ET and never had a queue.

ProxyDamage.9826:

I’ve mentioned before that GW2 felt schizophrenic, regarding something else at the time. I fear that particular disease has spread. Currently the game feels… Lost. Without direction. Like it’s trying to be everything, and do everything on a surface level, with no real idea where it’s going from there. Like a kid in a playground that is trying so hard to belong to every group that ends up never being a part of any. “We don’t want grind! Just grind! Ok a little bit! But not too much! Grind this much exactly! But do it everyday. We’re all about the PvE… PvP, I mean. E-SPORTS! HERE IS ANOTHER STORY OF SOMETHING WHO CARES WHAT! PLEASE LOVE ME!”

I agree with almost everything you said, especially this point. It almost feels like they were forced to go away from vertical progression. They keep saying “This is the last one we promise”. I don’t think they know exactly how they are going to go moving forward.

One of the worst things for a game is the lack of direction and indecisiveness. And since the end of last year it has happened. It seems like they don’t know the direction of their own game.

They want to be a part of everything, but still don’t want to be implicated. At this point, the best option would be just go with one thing. Stop being so schizophrenic.

I wish GW2 stuck with their original model. If they did they would have been unique in the MMO market place. Now why will a person pick GW2 over games in the market? Or future games coming out? If I am to grind anyway, I can just grind in the dozen + MMO in the market.

Taldren.7523:

So wait, you GvG lamers locked down a whole zone with queue times from people that actually wanted to use it for its intended purpose and its ANets fault for pointing out that you doing so?

I have a few ideas of what ANET can do with your GvG bs.

There are no queues in WvW save for T1 and maybe T2 servers. There were no queues in this case.

To be honest, I think GW2 just promised something that no human being can deliver. I honestly think people don’t play MMOs solely for “fun”. Because anything you do for long periods of time becomes unfun. If you eat 10 ice creams a day for a year you will start hating it.

So GW2 realized that the “fun” was retaining players and they had to switch their game plan. And started using what other MMOs do. Dailies, weeklies, farming, time gating etc. Why? Because it works.

Trust me I hate it too, I hate seeing the daily thing every day on my screen. But I am sure it helps with retention. But I am getting to the point of burn out also.

In forums if there is a balance between positive and negative comments that is the norm. But when it turns mostly negative there is something definitely wrong with the direction of the game.

The “free” excuse can’t be used anymore. Most of the MMOs on my computer are free (PlanetSide 2, FireFall, Rift, Secret World, SWTOR, Neverwinter, Tera) etc.

People expect a lot from all MMOs, just not GW2. Problem is I think GW2 might have promised a little more than they can actually deliver.

Vayne.8563:

I don’t care if you believe me. The conversation happened. It’s not relevant to me whether you believe me or not. The fact that my own observations back up what he said is another matter.

Anyone with eyes can see people logging in and playing on patch day. Multiple overflows all over the place. Even if people only play for a week, and stop again for a week, there’s still high concurrency for that week.

Or did you think overflows spawned all by themselves for no reason?

Overflows happen on T1/T2 servers. Ocassionally T3 servers but that is about it.

About the dev you spoke to. Usually in most MMOs the higher ups only have that type of info. So in GW2’s case it would be Mike O’Brien or Colin and maybe the higher ups in NCSoft. They don’t share that type of concurrency info with all Devs, only a select few. This is the case not just with GW2 but most MMOs. The info is too sensitive to share with everyone.

There are at least 10 servers like that OP. This is a huge problem for GW2 and I keep repeating it. I hope they do a “Connected Realm” thing like WoW. I played on two of the dead servers, and recently moved to Blackgate. A completely different experience, so much better.

Dynnen.6405:

Tera was not hard at all and extremely poorly balanced. Yes, there are a lot less key binds, but that doesn’t make the game easy. More key binds doesn’t make a game difficult, aiming doesn’t make a game difficult either. In those other games you could macro, in SW:TOR I played a hybrid dps/healing operative. I had both action bars on the sides filled with abilities I used a lot, my main filled with abilities I used every fight, and my ‘shift+’ action bar loaded down with stuff I used most fights. However all of that stuff was macroed and it really didn’t require much more muscle memory to get it nailed down.

I’ve played the game for a year now and looking back at the beginning it was quite difficult to learn all the other classes while min/maxing my own class. But after a month or two I could call out what each classes weapon combos were going to throw at me and as well as most utilities. As for the dodge mechanic it works very well in the game. I always laugh at the people that double dodge and leave themselves open to huge attacks/condi application for the next 5-6 seconds.

I don’t think any MMO is hard. But I would put GW2 in the middle to low in terms of “Hard”.

Buzzcrave.6197:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcPTsIAKAbU

22:00 min onward, the truth of Anet dev

After watching that video, I am going to wait and see what ANet says. He might be a tester or something like that. I can’t imagine an employee of ANet would act so unprofessionally.

I rarely PvP in this game, but this kind of thing is just horrible to see. A employee of an MMO company is telling a player not to play a certain way (which isn’t again ToS). I hope this doesn’t get out because it would be horrible PR.

I can’t believe he said “I am watching you guys violate my game”.

So it is his game? That whole convo is so unprofessional.

mjharrison.3209:

Besides drastically reducing the particle effect spam, the other major turnoff to watching GW2 matches is the whole downed state/rez/rallying mechanic. It breaks the flow of combat and trivialises death, which prolongs fights, and further contributes to the appearance of a mindless spamfest.

The best thing that GW2 could do is entirely disable downed state in PVP and raise base HP across the board to compensate. Could be trialled as a custom arena option.

Downed state is horrible but it isn’t going anywhere because they can sell finishers in the cash shop. But I do think the game mode (domination) + down state is just boring to watch.

I would love to see deathmatch type scenario in GW2, but I don’t know how well it would work with the downed state mechanic.

I watched the whole thing from start to finish. Some of the matches were pretty good and it was a well run and well casted tournament. However, 1000 viewers during the finals isn’t going to cut it as “eSports”. I don’t even think we hit past 2000 viewers at any time during the tournament.

I think the opposite actually. I think GW2 PvP is a little to simple and lacks depth. It has the least keybinds compared to most other MMOs. The devs obviously tried to emulate LoL and other MOBAs but failed because that doesn’t work in MMOs.

In other MMOs a good team can chain CC or silence the opponent at the correct time, in GW2 that rarely happens against other players. Too many instant casts and no spell bar are couple of the reasons for it. The lack of abilities and UI just makes the combat bland and literally faceroll.

One thing however I do think is stupid is that they didn’t launch with a rating system. When that happened noobs that just joined the game went up against players that have played for months and they probably never queued again.

10-12 keybinds are easy especially coming from most other MMOs. Adding a dodge mechanic doesn’t make combat hard. A game like Tera that actually had aiming and tons of abilities can call itself hard.

Vayne.8563:

Listen to you. ESO will be out in like a years time. And it’s going to be flawless at launch and everyone will love it, and it won’t be buggy and it won’t have any problems, so everyone will go there.

Why are you changing the subject? I was talking about their mega server tech and that is it. That is their solution to not seeing people in the world. The game could have 100k players playing it and the world will feel full because it is basically one merged server. I never said anything about how good or bad ESO is. In fact, I think it will be bad, I prefer WildStar.

I was talking about their tech. I was also talking about WoW’s tech when it comes to seeing people in low level zones. Not sure why you went off on a tangent?

If you knew anything about how China works with MMOs, it won’t even represent 10% of ANet’s revenue. China represents 60% of WoW’s playerbase but represents 15% of their revenue.

Regardless, I don’t see how China means anything to this discussion. Unless they let Chinese players play on NA/EU servers.

Vayne.8563:

I’m sure, in the fullness of time, something will be done. It took WoW a very long time to get to their solution. I’m not thinking this is a number one priority for Anet.

Well the market is different now, ANet doesn’t have 8 years to come up with a solution. I don’t even think they have 1 more year. Some games like ESO have the solution before launch. To me it should be a priority, because getting new players into the game should be the number 1 priority.

Vayne.8563:

Xcom.1926:

Vayne.8563:

First WoW is 8 years old. Almost all 8 year old games lose players, so comparing a new game to WoW can be counter productive.

Secondly, if you guest to TC, even if you’re on highly populated Blackgate, you will find more people in lower level zones. Why? Because it’s the RP server and a lot of RPers have a zillion alts. Most RP doesn’t take place in high level zones.

Again, the solution is there. There are people in TC in the Sylvari starting areas, one of the most popular RP races.

Your solution is picking one server? What happens to the other servers if they aren’t getting new players?

I’m saying for low level zones the solution is there. That’s all. As you pointed out, once you get to higher levels you can go to most servers.

That might be a good short term solution (Guest on T1 servers) But ANet needs to come up with something better as a long term solution. Full week free trials are good, but more needs to be done.

Karizee.8076:

The game is quite different from old school MMOs since there are no quest hubs. You’ll find people gather for meta events then scatter to whatever they do in the meantime whether it’s dungeons or gathering or WvW or hanging out in Lion’s Arch.

I’ve been in queue to get into a borderlands map for wvw for over 1.5 hours so far this evening, I went to a couple temple events in Orr while I waited.

I have no idea why people post screenshots. There are less than 100 people in each one of those screenshots. They show or mean nothing. We are talking about low/mid levels.

In terms of queues for WvW that only happens on T1/T2 servers. That’s it.

The OP linked a Justin Timberlake video, that is all the clues you get from me.

Vayne.8563:

Well, Anet has a solution with guesting. I mean if you guest to a busier server, you’ll see more people. It’s logical. People don’t want to use the solution already there, they want yet another solution.

Just so you know, I am not arguing for the sake of arguing. I learned a long time ago the best thing for an MMO is just stating your honest opinion. Because it is better for the long term health of an MMO. Instead of sweeping issues under the rug.

I have two GW2 accounts, this one is an alt. I had a level 30ish on ET which is a low populated server. So I deleted that character and moved to Blackgate and created a character (Sylvari). And I still rarely see people while leveling. I know Blackgate is booming with people at max level, but not in low levels.

I just wish they do some type of connected realm thing with all their servers. So if there is even 1-2 players in low level areas per server, if they are all combined it would be 40-50 players. I just think it is better for the game and its future.

People quit MMOs all the time, but if you don’t bring in new players you will decline. WoW recently said in the past they were able to bring more new players in than they were losing players. But that isn’t the case anymore which is why they lost so many of their players.

Vayne.8563:

No. they said it recently and the dev I spoke to said it’s been a consistent rise, particularly on patch days. People are playing.

I’m not talking about an old quote. I’m talking about a conversation I had with a dev (wearing his Anet tag) just a few days ago. The same dev said the dragons in Arah story mode look dorky. lol

Oh that means nothing then, off course it should go up during patches. But going up in terms of what? Last month? Last Week?

I remember when a SWTOR dev said publically that the subscribers haven’t dropped, and then in the quarterly call EA admitted the subscribers dropped.

I just don’t think any MMO can grow in this market. It is too competitive. Not even WoW. It is peak during launch and downhill from there.

Vayne.8563:

Unless you want to call the devs liars, you can. The devs have said straight out concurrency is on the rise. I believe them from my own observations.

Some people are coming back, some people are new from the free weekend, and of course, some people have left. No different than any other MMO.

They said it was a rise after the post launch slump. So the player base could have gone down 60% post launch and from there on in it stabilized. We won’t know exactly what the number is.

Vayne.8563:

You’re 100% right. It is a problem for all MMOs, even the biggest most successful ones. Many of the mid level zones in WoW are empty, on a lot of the servers. Why? Because there’s very little reason for people to be there.

Exactly, and you know what WoW did? They found a solution to the problem. With CRZ then Connected Realms. After Connected Realms you can go to any zone at any level and see players because they basically “Merged Servers” and gave a pretty name to it.

ESO is going to do the same thing and will have a solution before launch.

GW2 and other MMOs need to do the same thing. Because WoW realized there is a reason they lost almost half their subscribers. And they fixed that problem. Putting it under a rug doesn’t make it go away.

ANet has the tech to do it, we see it with their guesting feature. They just need to enact it.

Vayne.8563:

When you add into that the fact that some people are running dungeons now that there’s a new looking for group tool, and that some people are in PvP and some people are in WvW (another form of PvP), and that there are five starting zones and multiple servers, I think you can see why there might not be people where you are.

That is true, but it is still a problem. Not just GW2 but all MMOs. Just because there is a reasoning for why it happens doesn’t make it ok. You won’t get new players if they feel the world feels empty.

I hope ANet does something like what WoW did, in terms of “Connected Realms”. Let all the lower level zones become one. This way when a new player joins the game he sees players while leveling.

Which is why when ANet did the free trials this week, I was hoping they limit it to a couple of servers, so the world feels booming for these new players. And the leveling experience feels so much better. But unfortunately they didn’t.

Most of the low level zones are dead. Even on the highest population servers. Just rush through and get to end game where you will see people. My suggestion to a new player is play on T1/T2 servers as they are the most population, the rest are mid/low.

I just want GW2 to beat Runescape in terms of viewers on Twitch today, and I will be satisfied.