Guild Wars 2

1. Ranger
2. Elementalist

Oghier.7419:

The Traveler runes are also expensive, and they’re not perfectly suited to a build without much in the way of boons or conditions (though, again, the crit damage is nice). You could use the much cheaper Runes of Speed and still get the same primary benefit — constant speed without having to use up a utility slot for it.

Oghier is exactly right, thanks. Runes of Speed are an excellent alternative and much cheaper. I chose Traveler primarily because they were all that were available at the time I re-geared my thief (Rune of Speed used to be broken until a recent patch). Traveler does provide a higher overall stat bonus if you include minor stats, crit damage, etc; the boon duration also helps keep up might stacks from Hidden Assassin. Regardless, the benefits of Traveler vs Speed are mostly negligible.

Also, thanks to the community for organically promoting the videos – it’s greatly appreciated. Recently, the video appeared on Reddit. I took some time to post a comment there explaining some of my motives and goals with these videos. If anyone is interested in checking it out:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/1q5n82/another_yishis_video_dd_thief_wvw_outnumbered/cda3uoc

Thanks all for the kind feedback

Mice.8921:

I love Yishis’s videos, he inspired me to play thief, and with the exception of the month wiht 4 sec revealed time, I’ve loved it
When’s his next video? I was less fond of the P/D one…

My latest commentary video came out today and I’m playing Dagger/Dagger:

Apologies that I’m very busy with work IRL at this time. However, a lot of the suggestions given by others in this thread are great! Mobility, positioning, and knowing when to engage and disengage are all extremely important. Hopefully my latest commentary can provide additional tips/advice for you. Good luck!

+1. I’d like to see a system that rewards WXP based on the odds of the fight on each side. If a group of 20 takes out a group of 5, they should still get WXP, but it should be scaled down based on the odds that were already in their favor.

Conversely, if a group of 5 takes out a group of 20, there should be much greater reward for the outnumbered victory. A 5v5 victory should reward equal / on-par WXP as it does now.

There needs to be incentive for small groups to actually exist. A system that rewards small groups for accomplishing feats would go a long way. As it stands now, a small strike force may take down a 20-man zerg and receive no more reward than if they picked each enemy off 1 by 1, and yet their effort (teamwork, skill level, positioning) was most certainly put to the test. The zerg rolling over a group of 5 receives the exact same reward with minimal risk. With the current system, zerging clearly becomes the method of choice.

I don’t think the WXP scaling should be drastic, but it most certainly should exist in some form. A zerg of enemies inevitably is going to kill more and take more objectives in the same timeframe as a group of 5. More kills accomplished but less WXP per kill should mostly even out with a small group that accomplishes less actual kills / tasks but did so in a setting where their individual and team effort was much greater.

I recognize this can be spun to go against ArenaNet’s philosophy of a fully collaborative game (ex: PvE mob kills / events currently reward the exact same to every party involved). However, it should be recognized that PvE events can and do get scaled up as more players join in, theoretically keeping each player’s required effort and engagement up. WvW does not allow for that – in 5v20, the 5 players are not scaled up (nor should they be) and the zerg can steamroll. The 5 should, if they manage to be victorious, receive greater reward for this; the 20 winning instead should receive some reward but not the same flat amount.

Edit: I should note that I definitely appreciate WXP being added and love having progression in WvW. This is merely a suggestion that would go a long way in making the system more meaningful while helping to thin the massive zergs and add more risk to reward incentive.

I really enjoyed this footage actually. I haven’t observed close enough to nitpick much of anything, but I did want to mention that I enjoyed your playstyle in general. Your use of:
- shadowstep & black powder to stomp
- pistol 4 to interrupt heals / critical abilities
- shortbow evades / shadowsteps
-poison on low health & downed players

were all very well executed several times in the video. Seeing someone take advantage of these intricacies instead of the standard backstab spam and shortbow only for escape is refreshing.
There were a few minor spots where I felt black powder + HS for stealth would have allowed you a cleaner escape and avoid death instead of using shortbow 5 / evades (such as at 4:35). However, I realize this is an evade / mobility heavy build and I appreciate the effort to stick to that with much less stealth.

You do a solid job of mixing up combat abilities tailored to the situation at hand. I would definitely vote to see more gameplay- thanks for sharing!

Started using S/D more in the past few days and can confirm this is a definite bug and quite frustrating. Coming from the instinct of steal + CnD immediately, my hope was to preserve steal for later in the fight and use IS to enter the fight. Sad to see that it never actually flips to the second ability because I hit my keys too fast every time. Hopefully this gets reviewed as it makes the ability less consistent / reliable.

Thanks for gathering the footage and documenting the issue. Submitting a bug report in-game as well.

Thanks for all the comments, glad people have enjoyed.

Regarding the upcoming changes to stealth (revealed after all stealth): I plan to try out my existing spec and adapt if possible. However, it is certainly true that the change – if implemented in the form the devs mentioned – will pretty drastically affect the staying power of this spec. I don’t C&D spam, but I do sometimes use C&D 2-3 times in a row defensively if needed (for example, if a zerg rolls on top of the fight I’m in and I need an escape, if I want an extra blind on my target, etc.).

While the change doesn’t make me happy, I trust the devs to make whatever decision they deem necessary for the enjoyment of all players. I personally would prefer the nerf not to affect defensive staying power so drastically, instead wishing the C&D offensive power could just be toned down (drop C&D damage completely if needed, I don’t care nearly as much about it’s damage – that’s just a bonus). Or, take it a step further and reduce all damage output for X seconds if stealth is chained too repeatedly.

Regardless, I’m sure thief will live on fine through the change. I hope that any changes, along with culling fix, will boost the respect of the thief as I love the overall class concept.

To adapt, I may experiment with less points in SA (as shadow rejuvenation regen will be hit quite hard) and opt for more points in acrobatics for more evading capabilities. I may also use an off-hand pistol for my 2nd weapon set as it can stack a longer duration stealth then C&D.

bomber.1540:

Did he say in his comments he’s a keyboard turner and his thumb presses all the skills, far out, impressive

Not a keyboard turner – I use A/D for strafing (not turning) while turning with my mouse. My thumb presses all my main weapon skills, shift evades, utilities are 1-5. Thumb gives me greater control of the abilities I need most immediately.

Nice video Koroshi – I enjoyed it. Good to see you back playing the thief. Your initial videos several months ago were what inspired me to make a thief in the first place.

Thanks, would love to see more in the future.

Jericho.4521:

Yishis, big fan here! I’ve learned a lot by watching your videos, although I play a lot more PvP than WvW. I’ve noticed that in PvP, this is quite a bit harder to pull off for a variety of reasons, but mainly because of the stat cap as someone else mentioned. Still good though!

It’s weird, but watching these videos make it look a lot easier than it is. I think it takes a fellow thief to really appreciate the subtle things that you’re doing in some of these fights, as it’s often the difference between life and death. Stuff like that I’m still trying to pick up on.

Two questions though, does have Signet of Shadows help gain you more successful CnDs? Or is it just because you’re always covering long distances in WvW?

Also, do you think Fleet Shadow is worth it? Or if I didn’t want to take Descent of Shadows, is Thrill of the Crime the next best bet? I’ve been using that in PvP and it seems to help a lot.

Yes, the build does suffer from the much lower crit damage available in sPvP. However, I definitely still enjoy it in sPvP and appreciate the challenge. The lower backstab damage doesn’t ruin the build, just makes it more challenging to play, which I find fun – it means I go toe-to-toe with a foe a bit longer, but I enjoy that; this build isn’t all about the backstab, it’s just a tool amid the skirmish capabilities.

For sPvP, definitely don’t take Descent of Shadows. In sPvP I use Thrill of the Crime as well – the boons help make up for the weaker backstab damage. Fleet Shadow is decent, but I’ve never really found a need for it. Once you’re fluent with C&D-backstab combo, there isn’t much need for the added movement speed. Mug is another option, but I really don’t like Mug – I feel it’s a gimmicky trait that adds to the “omg thief 1-shot, nerf” complaint, and I’d take added utility / more sustained damage over the burst-on-long-cooldown of Mug.

Signet of Shadows is a really frustrating utility. I don’t want to use it, and I wish base movement passives didn’t exist for any class. For me, I use it primarily because I have to cover long distances in WvW. I also use it because I fight outnumbered so often and need the mobility for quicker escapes when surrounded. Enemies are more likely to use the base movement speed utility in WvW as well, and I need to at least stay on-par with their movement speed.

In sPvP, the better utility is definitely Blinding Powder – the 25% base movement isn’t warranted/needed in sPvP nearly as much as it is in WvW.

Bredin.5368:

Yashi, thanks for the video and commentary. I’ve played a lot of MMOs and usually with stealth characters, but just couldn’t get the knack for playing a thief. Was ready to hang it up when I saw your videos.

So, I modified my build and went out there—and then I wanted to hang it up because I met with so much fail. Then I actually listened to your commentary and watched how you moved into, out of, and around skirmishes.

And then it clicked! I can stay in battles forever, have great survivability and have become much more adept at stomping. I still can’t down people as fast as you (could be because I’m fighting against Blackgate players currently!), but I feel much more effective.

Essentially what I learned from watching your vids is to be quick, be patient and be persistent (and don’t miss your CnDs).

I do have a question: How do you deal with or anticipate all the CC (knockdowns, etc) that gets thrown at you while you are stealthed? It seems I’m always getting knocked down or held by AOE. Any advice?

thanks again!

Thanks for the kind words and glad you enjoyed.

Regarding anticipating CC while stealthed, it really comes down to positional awareness and being able to briefly put yourself in your enemy’s shoes. If you just went into stealth, you have to expect that enemy(s) are going to try to to AoE/CC on your last known location. Yes, sometimes you get lucky and have enemies that don’t understand stealth – but your best bet is to assume the enemy is well played and execute due diligence to get out of dodge.

When stealthed, you are at the highest risk right after entering into stealth. That’s why you’ll see that in a lot of my fights, I execute a dodge immediately after entering stealth in a majority of cases. Especially if I just stealthed via C&D and know the enemy saw me do it, I dodge right away because I’m anticipating he’ll try to hit me where I just stealthed. Getting a dodge off as you enter stealth allows you to avoid that initial aggression and quickly reposition yourself. Don’t always dodge in the same direction either – dodge roll in a direction you think the enemy won’t expect, then continue to move briefly before re-opening. If you can avoid the first burst and reposition quickly, the enemy won’t get many/any hits into you, and he’ll most likely AoE/CC in the wrong location as you’ve already moved to a safe location.

If you do take a CC and get in trouble, Shadowstep is your escape. If Shadowstep is down, you need to play a bit more cautiously as, if you get caught in long CC again, you have no stun break.

…with all that in mind, it still comes down to luck / spidy-senses sometimes

Good luck!

Keyce.8137:

I am very impressed by what you’ve shown here. I don’t WvW, but I end up feeling bad knowing that you’re killing people from my server (TC). Anyways, watching your video has really inspired me to dust off my thief again. I haven’t had a great time in any form of combat (PvE, WvW, sPvP), but I’m going to get my feet wet in a couple dungeons and sPvP with what you run. I enjoy the look of your build, but what gets me the most is your keybindings.

You have the fourth dagger skill set to Q, and everything other weapon attack set to C, V, F, and X. Your utilities are set to 1-5. How do you manage to use all these skills, turn with the precision of the mouse, and STILL be able to pull off dodge rolls to one side or another? I just can’t do all that at once, myself.

Lastly, why Valkyrie and Berserker gear? I’m curious as to why you take a mixture of the gear when you don’t really need the extra precision, or do ’zerker stats just have better power and crit damage?

Thank you for showing the community that the thief is truly something to be feared in the right hands!

Regarding my gear and auto-attack chain to time C&D’s, Kravick is absolutely correct – thanks Kravick! In general, I think of this build and playstyle as much more than the cookie cutter “backstab big and run away until I can do it again.” I see this as a skirmisher – someone with strong damage and still strong staying power. If you watch some of my other videos – particularly the 3vX where I’m playing with some teammates – I stick around in fights and put out constant pressure just as any other true melee class would. The stealth is a survivability tool to me – a way to stay in the fight consistently; it’s not just an “escape for the next big crit backstab.” So, with that in mind, I prefer my gear to allow me to assist in staying in the fight longer- thus the preference for respectable precision and more vitality.

My keybindings are extremely important to me. I strongly prefer my most-used combat abilities to be highly accessible. To me, the absolute best access is my thumb. So, with my fingers on WASD, my left hand thumb is able to very easily engage C, V, X, F, Q, E and so those are my go-to hotkeys. The benefit to using your thumb is that your fingers remain fully accessible to stay on WASD. The 1-5 keys, while still good, restrict your overall movement capabilities. For example, try strafing forward & left (W+A) and spamming 1 or 2: it is not easily possible (unless you have big hands or a master pinky reach, which I don’t). Thus, I have my main weapon abilities in direct access to my thumb, and my utilities – which are used much less often – bound to # keys. (Note that Q suffers the same fate as number keys, but the Q weapon skill is generally not something I need such immediate access to).

Also, my dodge is bound to Shift. So, while my left hand fingers handle movement & utilities, and my thumb handles main weapon abilities, my pinky is free to trigger dodges. Altogether, this is what allows for precise movement and controlled evades while still staying quick on attacks.

Hope that helps. Thanks, and glad you enjoyed the video

Martheo.7215:

Is a build like this viable in spvp? I’m new to the profession and was getting arround better with a P/D there, but I’d really like to go D/D …

Yep, I enjoy it in sPvP as well. It’s a bit tougher since you can’t get as much overall stats out of sPvP gear, meaning you miss some + crit damage or survivability, but it is still good. You’ll want to swap some of the traits – for example, acrobatics fall damage trait won’t be worth it. Best to switch to Trickery for Thrill of the Crime (my personal choice), or Deadly Arts for Mug.

P/D bleed build is definitely still good in sPvP too though.

RedSpectrum.1975:

just a question, when you are cc’d like immo’d you use shadow step to break it….just shadow step and not shadow return? Because when im immo’d and use shadow step…i’m still immo’d just at a different spot :/

The immobilize condition stays on me, but my position does change as you noted. In almost all cases, that position change is enough to let me escape. By the time the enemy realizes where I’ve stepped to and caught up with me, the immobilize is gone and I can fully break away. If I really can’t get away, then I can use shadow return to fully remove the condition; additionally, the 2nd position change definitely buys enough time to get away / re-stealth.

Loading.4503:

For your traits in shadow arts, what are your opinions on cloaked in shadow and shadows embrace? I seem to find myself switching between the both of those

They definitely are both good. In the long run, I’ve stuck with Cloaked in Shadow. The blind is invaluable. Since I’m re-stealthing nearly every 3-5 seconds, the AoE blind that often is a major damage reduction and can really fluster the enemies.

The condition removal in Shadow’s Embrace is definitely good, however, I find that Shadow’s Rejuvenation almost always heals for enough to offset any conditions ticking on me while I’m in stealth. With that damage offset, conditions don’t bother me much, and it means that I can continue to heal even more if I have no or weak conditions on me. Granted, there are cases where I get heavily condition stacked, but generally that’s only an issue with really well played necros or engineers, and those don’t pass by often. If they do, it just requires more intelligent positioning / evasion / use of condition removal (heal and shadowstep utility, or a full duration Shadow Refuge if really needed).

Thanks everyone for the comments

Yramrag.3026:

Hi Yashi, given your stealth-intensive build, how useful could Hidden Thief be, for that extra stealth option? I am running a similar build, except i got 10 points in Trickery trait for Kleptomanic and Thrill of the Crime, and 10 points on Deadly Art for Mug. My build: 10/30/20/0/10

Hidden Thief would be useful but I can’t afford it – my current Shadow Arts traits are far too important for survivability. I also don’t like to rely on steal much – the cooldown is too long for my liking, and I also don’t have any points in trickery to reduce that cooldown.

Lufian Cweald.3574:

I was having a crack again last night. It went….ok. I’m finding that Mesmers and Elementalists more so are almost impossible for me if they can play. The elementalist can unload their big damage combo basically every time and the timing to hit mesmers seems really difficult. This isn’t for all but a lot, on top of that a GC thief with basilisk is going to get me most times unless I stealth beforehand because he wins the “Snap” match.

….might have to try a pistol condition spec once I have the gold for a complete overhaul :/

D/D elementalists played well are definitely one of the most difficult fights. It requires a lot of dodging and mobility, which is tough since they are already very mobile as well. I’ll have 10+ minute fights with good D/D elementalists – usually it only ends when one of us gets too greedy and gets in a bad position.

Mesmers are usually more bearable as long as you can keep track of which is the real one. I actually like fighting mesmers usually since all of the clones they leave hanging around make for great and easy C&D targets. This usually lets me have the upper-hand of staying stealthed easily and often.

For thief Basilisk Venom – you definitely have to keep an eye on it. If I notice a thief running it, I have Shadowstep ready to break out of the stun. If Shadowstep is not up, there’s a good chance I’ll be in trouble.

mursie.3681:

…
duel and beat Second to God. Then we’ll talk =)

Second to God is in RIOT with me and we run together often. Great player for sure. He’s also playing his elementalist (Teh Sanny) in my 3vX video:

Lufian Cweald.3574:

watching this makes me cry….

I’m watching carefully to see how things land for you and they land really well and consistantly…..I might be wrong and maybe some Oceanic player can show that I am but I don’t think this level of play as a dagger thief is possible from our side of the world

Howver I am on a mission to figure out how I can do it.

I live in CA, so I’m fairly close to their data center and don’t lag much. However, on some rare nights I do hit high latency and it makes these types of fights near impossible. It’s very true that the difference between success and death in these fights is split-second decisions, and if the result of your actions are delayed by latency, you’re likely to bite the bullet rather quickly. I definitely feel for you, the latency can really hurt a twitchy class like this.

Iohanna.4863:

Question: have you ever considered using Dagger/Pistol in your alternate weapon load-out?

You may not be able to wield it fluidly without initiative regeneration, but you can use it to maintain stealth when there are no targets to CnD off of.

Yep, I definitely have. I keep a pistol in my bag at all times and do switch to it at times. I used to use it more often as I definitely like the anytime stealth and blind puddle. More recently, I admittedly have not had the urge to use it as much though – I think it has something to do with:
- the additional actions required to stealth (having to drop the blind pool then heartseeker). It’s definitely effective, I just have a hard time feeling as fluid using the combo field for stealth.
- I also don’t like that the duration of the stealth (with just 1 heartseeker in the combo field) is a second shorter than C&D’s default stealth.
- the stealth action can be more dangerous in outnumbered fights like this. What I mean by this is that I might accidentally heartseeker too close to an enemy and knock myself out of stealth.
- If an intelligent enemy walks into my blind pool / realizes it, they’ll have an idea where I am.
- The requirement of heartseeker means I’m forced to change position (leap) to stealth, which feels less clean than just being able to maintain control of my current position.

With all of the above in mind, I’d still like to play more with D/P in the future.
BTW, nice videos @Iohanna

I’ve put together another video fighting heavily outnumbered on my D/D thief in WvW. I provide commentary regarding my tactics for surviving and slaying in 1vX fights:

I’ve created 2 other commentaries and several other videos backed by music, all also focusing on fighting outnumbered. To check them all out, view my playlist here:

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLE50VtH1YHTOygGC9_umIOED3kKgsXfeW&feature=view_all

My spec and gear can be found in the video descriptions or at the end of the most recent videos.

Please enjoy and feel free to share comments. I’m happy to provide further information to anyone interested.

JaredKincade.9761:

Yashi.8703:

Here’s footage from Saturday night 2/10. Three [RIOT] from BG take on Kaineng and TC groups in outnumbered fights. Enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciQDkXeE_UY

Im glad you guys are on my team.

Never let it be said 3 people can’t make a difference in WvW.

Thanks for the support guys RIOT is really into coordination and teamwork and we definitely enjoy the challenge. Thanks for the great fights – T2 and this matchup has been a blast so far!

Here’s footage from Saturday night 2/10. Three [RIOT] from BG take on Kaineng and TC groups in outnumbered fights. Enjoy!

Lasraik.9285:

Loved the videos, and thank you for the Thief information. Keep up the great work.

Thanks, appreciate the support all!

I’ve just released a new video highlighting 3vX Outnumbered fights. Be sure to turn on Youtube annotations as I explain tactics and information as the fights progress.

brunohstein.9038:

You are a great player, there is no doubt about it. I can’t do that well with my thief. You have good positioning and a great timing.

Do you play other professions as well? Are you able to do that well with them?

Thanks! Yes, I have played every class since beta, and have most in the 50-60 level range. I have an 80 guardian as well. To be honest, no, I can’t come close to this type of play-style on the other classes. Without stealth, no amount of added tank or burst would let me cleanly survive against these odds to nearly the same extent. If I had to pick a different class to attempt this play-style, it would probably be a tanky condition kit engineer since they have a massive amount of utility, tools, and kiting capability to make up for the lack of stealth (and they can also stealth with combo fields). Take a look at some of Teldo’s footage for examples.

Do note that playing and fully understanding the in’s-and-out’s of every other class is a must though to be able to predict their moves and counter them effectively.

Saeviel.5769:

Hey ! Great job, I’ve really enjoyed it.
Just one simple question. Wouldn’t Shadows Embrace be better instead of Infusion of Shadow ? You’ve got no condition removal (only HiW)

Great question. Shadow’s Embrace is definitely nice, but I can’t sacrifice any other traits for it. I actually find that the constant heal I get from Shadow’s Rejuvenation outweighs the condition removal in almost every case. The heal ticks for ~350 every second or so, which actually negates the damage of a good amount of conditions; the only time I find Shadow’s Embrace would be more needed is if I had a lot of condition stacks on me that Shadow’s Rejuvenation can’t offset. However, if I’m stacked with a lot of conditions, chances are I’m already stealthed and retreating so the threat is reduced anyway.

Also note that I do have condition removal in the 2nd part of the Shadowstep utility. Sometimes I will also run sword in my 2nd weapon set for the condition removal attached to that as well.

Thanks every for the support and kind words.
I’ve been getting a ton of positive response, so I’ve gone ahead and made a new commentary video:

Also note that I’ve now switched to Divinity runes (finally had the cash to afford them). Wurm still works great if you can’t afford Divinity.

Dee Jay.2460:

Yashi.8703:

@ Dee Jay – Thanks for the comments, I’ve definitely had many similar thoughts and you raise good points.

One issue I thought I’d raise is that you use Singet of Shadows.

While I can understand why I kind of makes the “Swiftness on Dodge” redundant as well as the Fleet Shadows. Movement speed increases don’t stack so Swiftness is really only a 8% increase over Singet of Shadow.

Instead I would propose you use Singet of Agility for the Condition Removal and extra Stamina it provides.

You definitely have a good point with Signet of Shadows. I sometimes will swap it in for Signet of Agility, or more commonly for blinding powder (the extra on-demand stealth is great for escape, extra damage, or especially reviving a teammate).

To be honest, I should be swapping out that signet more often. However, I have to admit it is often because I get lazy and want the base 25% run speed while moving around in WvW (since the swiftness on evade won’t help for long travels across the map). I really hate swapping utilities back and forth, thus where the laziness comes in. The 25% base run speed does still help in fights though, since I don’t have a source of vigor buff so can’t always be evading to get swiftness. Signet of Shadow’s on-use is also briefly useful if I need to get a quick stomp off but am not in stealth (I can use it to blind and prevent guardian downed knockback, for example).

In the end, mobility + stealth are my key defenses in outnumbered fights so I’m always leery of giving up perma-25% move-speed. I definitely need to play with it more and appreciate the suggestion – it’s very valid

Toolbox.9375:

o_o Wait, the turrets were actually a PROBLEM? How often are they an issue? Which ones are the most disruptive? Have turret Engineers ever been a MAJOR roadblock, or are they more just nuisances? What about Engineers in general, ever have difficult fights with them?

Sorry if it wasn’t clear – they certainly were not a major problem, hence why I didn’t destroy them. Nuisance is the better description, but when I’m fighting outnumbered, all those nuisances add up. The net turret especially can be a problem if I’m trying to manage incoming damage from multiple enemies and need mobility.

@ Dee Jay – Thanks for the comments, I’ve definitely had many similar thoughts and you raise good points.

1. Side strikes and Hidden Killer definitely don’t mesh. Hidden Killer is a must for me, and Side strikes is more there as an assist when I’m already out of stealth (bladestorming a clump of enemies or using shortbow, for example).

2. I’ve debated replacing side strikes, and fury at 50% definitely is an interesting option – I may give it a shot. I think my justification so far is that Side strikes is 7% all the time (and I almost always hit from the side/back), whereas the fury trait is only if I drop low on health, and the 45sec internal cooldown on it kind of turns me off.

3. You’re correct Practiced Tolerance doesn’t add much HP. However, I use it because there’s no other trait I deem better in its place for this play-style. The only other option is Critical Haste for a chance to proc quickness; however, I found that I don’t care for that since it causes me to lose rhythm with my cloak & dagger chains (if I suddenly start attacking faster but continue to expect to C&D at the same time, it ends up firing faster and I hit the stealth immunity.)

4. Acrobatics is critical for me.
a. The swiftness on evade is amazing as it lets me close gaps faster or escape quicker.
b. The fall damage reduction & blinding powder is extremely important for me in WvW. It basically becomes another escape utility or opener stealth in many situations.
c. I can swap to Fleet Shadow as needed to increase my move-speed by a ton while in stealth.
d. As a note, I am not a fan of mug – I feel it is a poorly designed trait and adds to the “omg 1-shotted by thief, nerf” discussions. I also don’t like that I have to rely on steal for it – too long of a cooldown and no real utility besides some more damage.

@Xenth, thanks. I actually look forward to them fixing culling, definitely needs to happen. And I have a feeling I won’t be too affected. I rely on the chaos and confusion in the midst of a zerg and am only ever out of stealth for at most 3 seconds – with proper evades while out of stealth, I hope to continue similar to how I do now, just with more challenge added.

@Agadar: Sorry. I really feel for rangers – was my first class. I really want them to be awesome. But in WvW they still are … not. Very low escapes, easy to avoid and suppress. They have to be extremely well played to become a threat.

My most recent video commentary on fighting outnumbered / 1vX as a D/D thief:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCWywAXmVP4

All my outnumbered videos are in the main thread:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Videos-WvW-Outnumbered-Zerg-Slaying

Again, this is D/D, not P/D

Thanks, Eviscera I’ve never looked back with my current build/spec. I find the damage is still more than enough and the added survivability is paramount to surviving in the outnumbered situations I prefer to fight in.

UPDATE 2/4/2013: After a lot of positive response, I’ve made a new outnumbered commentary video:

Over the past month I’ve created several videos highlighting heavily outnumbered fights in WvW on my D/D thief. These videos are comprised primarily of 1vX situations, as well as a few small-group vs zerg situations.

Playlist of all videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7OYniHrGqE&list=PLE50VtH1YHTOygGC9_umIOED3kKgsXfeW

The most recent video (today) is commentary of my tactics as the fights unfold:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCWywAXmVP4

My spec is D/D and can be found in the info at the bottom of any of the videos.
I use Valkyrie armor, berzerker weapons/jewels. Runes of the wurm, sigil of bloodlust, sigil of fire, sigil of force. For full gear/spec display, see the end of the commentary video, or the end of my 4th video ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kupkZLVQ5XY ).

Please enjoy and feel free to share comments. I’m happy to provide further information to anyone interested.

Thanks for watching!

I enjoyed the video, nice job. Yes, thief is less buttons to press, but placement, kiting, stealth/cooldown management was well done in the video so it was enjoyable to watch. Thanks for sharing, would like to see more.