Guild Wars 2

Cogbyrn.7283:

They could have probably made hero points easier to earn in WvW, but unfortunately it’s not something I know much about, since I had map completion before on my Necro, and just popped into HoT for a few of the challenges to max out my Elite spec. If it’s really that bad for strict WvWers, that’s pretty unfortunate, but not something I would personally gripe much about.

I have 6 characters I play in WvW depending on what my guild needs on any given night or what we are doing. The most amount of map completion I have on any character is 20%. This is pretty common for WvW primary players and is true for half the people in my guild. /shrug

This is why people are complaining so much about the scrolls being soul bound, especially after paying money for an xPac only to have ANET to openly admit the wvw game mode wasnt a priority.

/shrug

Cogbyrn.7283:

cillard.3986:

I didn’t see sPvP players being forced to grind out masteries and hero points just to be able to sPvP…….

Can you use masteries in WvW?

Not any that I am aware of. That isn’t what I was saying though…

Coinhead.7591:

Come back everybody.

I am sad and alone running around fighting NPC only.

We are WvWing ….just on EB and not the new maps. Try there.

BrickFurious.7169:

They’re trying to encourage individual character progression, which I get, which is why they want the scrolls to be soulbound. I dunno, we’ll see.

No, that is what one dev said they are trying to do. The reality doesn’t match that statement.

1. sPvP progression is account based

2. WvW ranks are account based. They were character progression, but ANET purposefully changed it to be account progression.

3. Masteries are account based

4. Ascended / Legendary gear progression is account based.

Not only that, nearly everything is in this game is account based. Don’t believe everything you read just because it is a Red name posting it….

BrickFurious.7169:

1. I really think this is going to be a L2P thing. After spending probably 10 hours total in the new BL, I feel like I know it really well, and it really doesn’t feel convoluted.

I spent more time than that during beta.

The only thing I do in this game is WvW. 10 hours on the map could be a single rainy weekend day for me…..

It isn’t a L2P issue and frankly, I find that comment to be horribly insulting. The maps themselves are laid out in a very bad manner. It is that… period.

BrickFurious.7169:

3. This is a more general WvW complaint, not specific to the new HoT WvW content. There’s a lot of general complaints I could throw in with it, but there’s no point, since Anet said they’re working on fixing a lot of these core issues. If this is a problem for you, right now you either have to play and have fun despite the issues, or find another game to play in the meantime.

I hope you aren’t holding your breath while waiting for that. Still waiting on them to deliver some very basic things they said they would at release. Even as something a simple as making the WvW achievements more reasonable took over two years…..

When it comes to developmental priority, WvW is literally in the back of the bus. Sorry, but they haven’t earned the benefit of the doubt.

Cogbyrn.7283:

For #3, it’s such an incredibly slippery slope. If WvW is better than PvE for progression, all you’re going to get is maps full of people training. Odds are you don’t want that if you care about PvP. How much worse does player progression have to be in WvW to be disrespectful? And is it only disrespectful to people who want a quick and easy way to level up alts? Or is it disrespectful to those who want Ascended gear?

Just look at the issue of scrolls and chests and ANETs response to the concerns raised if you want an example of #3. I don’t even care about the loot being far far worse, but WvW is not PvE and the needs are not the same, regardless of how much ANET tries to tell us it is. The concerns of WvWers are more in line of those in PvP than anything else and really needs to be treated that way.

I didn’t see sPvP players being forced to grind out masteries and hero points just to be able to sPvP…….

BrickFurious.7169:

“50% gimmick” unfortunately is still just as vague as “too much PvE”, I still have no idea what you’re actually complaining about there. The oasis event? The air turrets? (which, btw, I will actually complain about those; there needs to be some kind of visual warning before they go off, like they light up or something right before they fire).

Actually it does look like you know part of what is being complained about given that you jumped to one of the ‘gimmicks’ immediately as being a problem.

The air turrets just need to go away completely. They don’t add anything to meaningful game and are better at frustrating people than enhancing game play. The stealth fountain, the sand, the slow field, the rock walls, etc. They all get in the way of game play to varying degrees.

Regarding the slow field thing ……I hope a flock of birds take a crap all over the newly washed car of the person that thought that was a good thing to implement.

Cogbyrn.7283:

If a company says “Who wants to beta test this update?”, and 1000 people volunteer, if they choose 100, those 100 are privileged by definition.

You obviously are just trolling and being argumentative for the sake of it. What I quoted it all I read, no point in continuing with your nonsense.

BrickFurious.7169:

Why do I bother? Because I’m desperately searching for substantive criticism of the new BL on this forum so I can try and figure out why many people hate it so much. I’m sure Anet is doing the same so they can sort through feedback on possible changes they should make. And this post offers none of it. This forum has been deluged with poor quality complaint posts and it’s frustrating.

Well if you can sift through the rabid ranting of the angery masses and the fanbois white knighting anet, there is a common theme.

1. Too much space and vertical shift combined with convolution on the new maps.

2. Too many gimmicks that get in the way of game play and fun instead of enhancing it. Blowers, slow fields, mass stealth, etc.

3. Lack of respect for the players when it comes to equal progression in other game modes.

Sviel.7493:

cillard.3986:

So why do you bother, if your only contribution is to attack the person and their method of complaining instead of the issues they raised. It isn’t that hard to get the gist of what that person is saying.

I think he’s saying that the issue that was raised is not clearly defined. He takes issue with the ‘more PvE’ claim because he doesn’t see any evidence to substantiate it. Neither do I.

Well that is a matter of perspective and opinion as well…..

To me, anything environment or NPC related that does not directly involve the killing of players as ‘PvE’. I would currently describe the entire new map as PvE most of the time because all the action is on EB.

Seriously, T1 server on reset had 97 queued for EB and no queue on new maps. Heh, that speaks volumes.

So about the HOT changes, new and old maps alike:

1. The servers are lagging in fights far worse than they did prior to the xpac. This applies to both the new maps and EB equally, and makes the game unplayable large fights because none of your buttons respond. This is a game breaking problem.

The new maps specifically:

1. They are too big. The levels and layers make the maps not just ‘large’, but greatly so. If the servers and code could handle more players, this may be a nonissue. Unfortunately, the game is performing far worse than it used to, so adding even more players into the mix to ‘fill’ the map isn’t currently viable. Also, this does nothing to solve the problem on less active, lower tier servers.

2. They are too convoluted. Too many twists, turns, and elevation changes. Some of this can be attributed to learning the new maps, but even after spending extensive time in beta and post xpac launch, my opinion on this has not changed. Perhaps allowing gliders in WvW would solve some of this? Can’t say without testing.

3. Too many gimmicks. The concept fueling the implementation of these gimmicks is sounds, unfortunately its was flawed from the very beginning in their design. Splitting up forces and fights to reduce the blobs is still a great concept, but introducing all of the buffs and debuffs just makes the game more frustrating to play.

4. The super laser PvE event. Looks, this PvE even can be fun as hell when you have three sides fighting for it and you can actually hit buttons and have them fire off abilities. Unfortunately forcing action into one place in a map you designed to split people up is more than a bit counterproductive. It is a really neat idea, but the game just can’t handle all those people in one place at the moment. IF you can work our the server lag problems it may be kinda of cool if you can work out the timing of the event to correspond to some metric regarding server peak times.

5. The keeps…… god these are absolutely beautiful. Whoever did the artwork did an amazing job on them. From a play standpoint, not so good. The gimmicks (god the stupid overkill on gimmicky crap!), size, and defensibility are all problems.

6. The chests and scrolls. The chests should stack in inventory and remain account bound. The notarized scrolls should be made account bound. Tyler said the chests being account bound were a bug and it would be fixed. This would be a huge huge mistake.

7. Autoloot. Enable autoloot in WvW and make it purchasable from WvW points and not masteries. Nobody wants to freaking grind masteries in PvE just to be able to do something they should have always been able to do from the beginning in a game. Seriously, it is just archaic in modern gaming to make you loot bags off the ground.

8. Speaking of loot bags ….why do I still see everyone else’s freaking loot bags on the ground. Fix that kitten already.

BrickFurious.7169:

What more PvE? I see this complaint thrown around so much, yet I highly doubt everyone means the same thing when they say it.

Your entire post is one giant disorganized complaint. You make a direct reference to the oasis event, and then you sort of complain about shrines. That’s it. That’s what you call “increasing the PvE to biblical proportions”. Holy drama batman. Next time try attacking those two issues directly instead of making me wade through the TL;DR morass that was your post.

And map layout design itself is not PvE. I don’t care how complex the map is. It is the “E” in which PvP takes place. You can complain all you want that the map is too complicated. I disagree. Whatever. But saying that making a map design more complex is “too much PvE” is ridiculous. That doesn’t even make any sense. How could you possibly measure the amount of PvE in a map’s design? What do you do, count all the cliffs? There certainly aren’t any more random mobs in the new BLs compared to the old ones, so you can’t possibly be talking about that. If the new maps make you walk farther, that’s too much PvE, is that it? For crying out loud, at least be more specific with your complaints instead of this random, generic whining.

Sometimes I wonder why I bother with this forum.

So why do you bother, if your only contribution is to attack the person and their method of complaining instead of the issues they raised. It isn’t that hard to get the gist of what that person is saying.

Cogbyrn.7283:

I’m not attacking you as a person. I’m attacking the idea that you, and others, think all of their feedback should be incorporated immediately, because they know best. You have your opinion, you provide it, then the company collects opinions and acts however they think is best. Sometimes that involves not following your opinion.

Part of the problem is that ANET has been extremely out of touch with the WvW community since pretty much the beginning. I believe they tried to implement what the general consensus of what was asked for. Unfortunately, when you don’t really have a firm understanding of “why” things were being requested, you are going to have an impossible time implementing a solution that works.

What basically happened, and ANET just all but said it themselves, they ran out of time and resources to get everything done before the xpac and had to prioritize. WvW, per usual, was a casualty. Don’t kid yourself, this is why the feedback was ignored before HoT release. The new maps were flawed from the very beginning and they were part of the triage process.

Sorry, but from a design standpoint, they quite obviously have no idea what it best. You have people complaining about the new maps here, on reddit, on the wvw boards, polls showing up to 80% of the player base hating them, and various social media outlets. Not just your normal level of complaining either, they are massive amounts of complaints.

No matter how you try to spin it, it isn’t my opinion and it isn’t the opinion of a few. If your head isn’t in the sand, it is readily apparent. Lastly ….regarding the “incorporated immediately” nonsense: Immediately? No, they have know the maps were problematic since the beginning. Way way more than enough time to fix them before HoT IF it has been a priorty. The truth is, WvW just wasnt a priority.

…and yes, when you imply things about someone, it is just a veiled personal attack. So for the sake of civility, knock it off.

Cogbyrn.7283:

Or is there a major bug/exploit on the Desert BL that doesn’t make it a sandbox PvP experience with objectives to center activity around? Successful and viable are two different things, and based on what I’ve seen, Desert BL is perfectly viable.

Depends on your definition of viable. Is it a viable in the sense that the game runs? Sure, well when it doesn’t randomly crash clients in big fights or server lag so badly that none of the buttons you press work. Is it viable in the sense that the product meets the specifications of its target audience? Absolutely not.

Cogbyrn.7283:

Business doesn’t move quickly. If you’ve never worked with/for a large company, that’s something to know.

Again….. what is with comments like this from you? If you did less trolling and more reading, it is quite obvious from my previous response that your way way off base even directing this rude belittling my way. I was spot on about my assessment of beta testing from the viewpoints of a gaming company, a regular software company, and from an IT perspective. You only have that insight with direct experience.

Of the three, a gaming company is the only one that can get away with pushing out badly designed product. Unfortunately most companies fail to realize is that while it may be a good short term solution, it generally burns them long term. There are gaming companies I will never by another game from again because of their lack of integrity, and I know I can’t be the only person out there like that.

Cogbyrn.7283:

And if you think beta testing is free labor used to leverage people, why did you voluntarily take part in that system? It sounds like you don’t think very highly of it.

That is quite the conclusion you jumped to from my comments and it is also quite wrong. My statement earlier explained it perfectly fine, so I am not sure how you got that out of it.

You think it is a privilege to beta test. No offense, but that is laughable.

The truth is that it is a necessity because MMO gaming companies literally lack the resources to be able to fully test something on the scale that is needed. There IS a reason why most companies reward beta testers for their time instead of just relying on the warm fuzzy feeling the tester gets just for the “honor” of being invited …..

As to why someone would voluntarily take part in an xpac beta test for a game they have already been playing for a couple of years. Hmmm…. I wonder?

Yes, a little sarcasm and snark. Sorry, but it was more than a little deserved.

Cogbyrn.7283:

Good lord, you have the privilege to help mold a game mode by providing feedback, for a game you supposedly love, and you act like it’s this huge chore that ANet should grovel at your feet for you even thinking about doing.

I would have loved to have been part of the feedback process, regardless of what they did with said feedback. It’s an honor to be brought in to be a part of any sort of feedback process for any product you love/enjoy.

Beta testing software isn’t a privilege and it isn’t an honor. For a gaming company it is free labor to leverage people heavily invested in the product to do something they lack internal resources to do themselves. A non-gaming software company pays internal staff to beta test as well as opening up to the outside if it is a new version of an existing product. For other businesses, beta testing is a matter of self preservation to make sure that the product or process they are implementing doesn’t hurt them.

Also, the entire purpose of the beta test is to ensure that the product is viable before being released. Viable, meaning that it is free of any major bugs and does what it is supposed to do. If you find out during testing that your product has a major design flaw, you don’t just go ahead and release it anyways. No point in beta testing if you have no intention of fixing glaring issues before release.

I am glad you are a fan of the company. Good for you, but don’t you dare attack me because I am displeased with my time being wasted, my feedback being ignored, and being sold a product with a major design flaw.

ArchonWing.9480:

I would definitely like to also agree with points that feedback is important to provide, not anger. There’s too many times I feel the development team will make very short posts and I feel it is because of fear of being taken out of context or have their words twisted over a matter of semantics, and this doesn’t apply to this section only. Even though I’ve already dumped all my spare points in PvF defense, it is still not enough. (Sorry, I’ve resorted to spending my ability points on imaginary things) Now, I’d like to also point out many people do not do this and do provide very high quality feedback across the boards, but there are definitely a few folks out there that are making matters worse— not that I believe everyone should be punished for the actions of those few though but just because a red post seems to have posted something objectionable doesn’t mean you have to mash the post reply button. Step away from the keyboard.

As long as the feedback continues to get ignored and the community continues to be an afterthought, the anger is to be expected. It isn’t realistic to expect people to remain calm and civil when you keep poking them with the proverbial stick. What makes it even worse is the over moderation of that criticism, because it makes the company look extremely bad.

We did want changes to WvW and ANET did provide them. You can see where they tried to meet our requests regarding the new maps and design, and I am glad they “tried”. Unfortunately they did it without really understanding of was being requested by the community. I mean the artwork on the new maps is absolutely amazing, but the game play on it is complete and total crap.

So anyways, we had beta and WvW specific guilds were invited to test the new maps. We found numerous problems with the maps in both a game design and layout. They just weren’t as fun, even with the map full, as the old maps were. We reported this to ANET during beta, asked for less of a ‘jumping puzzle’ feel (vertical shift), reduction in size, removal of the gimmicky crap, and reduction of the agro NPCs.

Exactly how much of that feedback from beta was acted on? Yeah, exactly. People are angry and they have a right to be. ANET can handle it gracefully, by being responsive and open with their customers. That would at least make people feel like their voices were being heard and that the company gives a crap about them, right? I think the current policy of not responding to the glaring issues period and silencing any and all critics is the wrong approach. That only serves to stoke the flames.

Perhaps they should change their approach on the subject…..

Notsoperky.2348:

At least they admitted they released the new maps without really testing them or finishing them Maybe next time they will ask real wvw players to test from an early stage and then listen and act in the feedback.

My worry is that it may be too late.

The absolutely DID invite entire WvW guilds into the beta testing. My guild is one of those that was invited and we perhaps one of the most prominent, if not the most prominent, WvW guilds in NA.

We took our time to test their game, because we care about it that much, and spent our time writing up feedback about the glaring issues we found with the new maps. For the most part, they were completely ignored. Whether it was due to lack of resources or lack of importance, who can say….. but those people still defending ANET at this point need to get a grip. These forums are getting spammed with complaints about the very issues we raised to ANET literally months and months ago. They chose to ignore them and implement the maps as is.

(read this before it automagically disappears, as criticism usually does)

I too view this as a big middle finger from ANET.

When you trim out all the fluff to soften the blow, he is basically saying that they prioritized for the expansion and WvW didn’t make the cut. This is confirming what anyone who’s head isn’t in the sand already knows, that the WvW community and the game mode is an afterthought.

I am really surprised that the same few people continue to support ANET on these boards despite everything ANET does to blatantly contradict them. You are either blind or sponsored damage control. /shrug

The sad thing is, that ANET doesn’t realize that when WvW guilds leave the game, they take nearly everyone with them. This includes the PvE and sPvP players in those guilds.

Here you go, my screenshot.

WvW ranks are account bound.

Masteries are account bound.

Ascended and Legendary Gear are account bound.

PvP rank is account bound.

Something is not adding up with the explanation …………

Yes or no doesn’t suffice.

Yes until they can fix the glaring issues with the new map based on the feedback they were given both during beta and after release.

Hopefully this post isn’t deleted.

Babytater.6803:

Everyone please stop complaining about WvW. Anet did a good job. Plain and simple. It is the players that are making sound so crappy. The map is great. Yes there aren’t many people but they will be returning in the coming weeks. And yes there are some things that they need to fix but the mechanics and flow of the map are not terrible.

The players are the customers. When customers complain it is because they are unhappy with the product. Good products don’t make the majority of the customers who purchase it unhappy. If the majority of the customers are unhappy, it means the product is bad.

You are wrong on all counts.

The mechanics and flow of the new maps ARE the problem.

The one positive about the new map is that it is artistically beautiful. Of course I would rather have 16 bit artwork and a solid game design that is fun than pretty artwork and horrible game design.

That is just me though.

Tyler Bearce.3427:

The chest, containing Proofs, being account bound is a bug. Earning specializations (skills and traits) is intended to be character progression. Ex: If you want to fully train up your warrior, you actually need to play your warrior for some amount of time. I say some amount of time since Tomes of Knowledge have allowed players to bypass a lot of existing character progression.

Tyler Bearce.3427:

We are looking at adding a way for players to earn Quickloot in WvW as well. We wanted to keep PvE progression (Masteries) separate from WvW progression (Ability Lines). However this means when a new Mastery ability is created, that might also be useful in another gamemode, it doesn’t automatically crossover.

Dubya Tee Eff ….

Are you the one making these decisions? If so, it might be time to bring in a consultant with actual gaming / wvw experience.

No…. most people aren’t happy with the new maps.

Jayne.9251:

This too: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/PSA-Masteries-unlock-account-wide

msalakka.4653:

I just think it’s hilarious that people really argue with a straight face that the reason the new maps are vacant is because veteran WvW players are in PvE.

All the dedicated (and by dedicated I mean 8-12 hours/day WvW guys) in my friends list are all out getting their elites in pve-land. About 50+ so far. And they’re usually in map every day, all day, seven days a week.

Thats funny…. because my guild unlocked our elites the first two days and we have been back in WvW. One night on the new map is all it took for us to decide that we were only playing EB going forward.

Why? The new map sucks. Of course, we told ANET this during beta and told them exactly why it sucks (matching many of the current complaints from players seeing it for the first time this past week). They ignored feedback completely.

Sure some of the emptiness is due to the new PvE content, but it doesn’t change the reality that, while beautiful artistically, they were horribly designed. Its like they took all the feedback of what everyone didn’t want and chose to implement them out of spite. Heh

Three accounts on T1 servers. During prime time NA the only queued BL is EB consistently. The only time any other BL is queued is because some commander is karma training it for hero points. That is reality…..

Also, the people that actually like the map are by far the minority.

http://strawpoll.me/5848415/

Tiffany.8576:

It’s amusing. The other month people were up in arms because Mike O’Brien insinuated that very few people played the WvW game mode exclusively. Now when you ask where all the WvW players are, you’ll be told “they’re in PvE.” Guess he was right afterall.

Here is reality, my entire guild hates the new maps.

Because of this:

1. We only play on EB so….

2. Some are in PvE waiting for EB queue to pop.

3. Don’t log in as often any more.

Any PvE being done is pretty much only what has been forced upon us.

Zanther Deathbringer.4762:

Read the match up threads. Lots of people confirming they are PvE’ing

I am always on those boards and you are cherry picking them. I agree that some people are PvEing because they have to because WvW got screwed when it comes to elite specs (and about to be screwed even more when the chests go soul bound), but that isn’t the reason why people are not on the new maps. The truth is that people that actually are WvW oriented, hate the new maps.

Zanther Deathbringer.4762:

Now this, is a straight up lie.

Lie? You have no clue what you are talking about.

I have an account on all three of the T1 servers (and a T3 server, but I haven’t played on that one in months). Unless there is a map queue following a commander to retake/take stuff in another zone or karma train, the only map queued for purposes of actually fighting other people is EB.

Sure some people are PvEing, but most WvWers that fill the maps nightly only PvE when they absolutely have to. The WvW community for the most part spent the first couple of nights in the new zone, and promptly returned to EB because the new maps are horrible.

Zanther Deathbringer.4762:

More like a few people saying that while the rest shut them down with facts

Good try though

There isn’t a single player that I know on any one of the three T1 servers that is happy with the new maps. That is why it is pretty much only EB queuing on any of them.

T1 – YB

Only map queued since HOT has been EB.

Here is what an intelligent, thoughtful, and experienced game designer would do at a bare minimum:

1. Make the chest stack like every other bag/chest in the game.

2. Keep the chests account bound.

3. Make the scrolls account bound.

With that said, I absolutely do not expect this to happen.

Tyler Bearce.3427:

The chest, containing Proofs, being account bound is a bug. Earning specializations (skills and traits) is intended to be character progression. Ex: If you want to fully train up your warrior, you actually need to play your warrior for some amount of time. I say some amount of time since Tomes of Knowledge have allowed players to bypass a lot of existing character progression.

Holy crap, you are really out of touch with your player base.

People that WvW don’t give a crap about PvE progression for the most part. I want to log in, have a stable game to play, and players to kill. You took $50 from people, that should be enough for you without sadistically forcing a grind on people that don’t kittening want it.

Also, the lag is actually far worse in larger fights. IS it the new gimmicks causing that? Who knows.

The zone is beautiful but it isn’t well designed.

1. Too much vertical shift

2. Too large, convoluted, and confusing

3. Too many gimmicky mechanics

4. Too many PvE elements.

They were clearly informed of this from day 1 of giving players beta access. We did our job providing feedback to them. Too bad they chose to ignore it.

Good luck getting anything major fixed. They had a chance to do so long before expansion release, but completely ignored everyone from the invited WvW guilds that beta tested and provided feedback.

I hope they will do something about it, but I wouldnt hold my breath given the history of wvw neglect.

The thing is, ANET was clearly informed of the issues with the new map very early on in the beta process. Not only that, many of the WvW guilds that were invited to the beta became so frustrated with its design and concept, that they stopped playing it all together because it wasn’t fun.

The art work is beautiful, but clearly someone in a position of power at ANET made the decision to push ahead with the work that was already completed instead of listening to their target customers providing feedback. This was just another mistake in a long line of many when it comes to WvW… like lack of support in general that has driven entire guilds (and their PvE / sPvP players) away from the game.

1. Too much vertical shift

2. Too large, convoluted, and confusing

3. Too many gimmicky mechanics

4. Too many PvE elements.

They were clearly informed of this from day 1 of giving players beta access. They chose to ignore it.

Also ….the lag is horrendous when actual big fights happen on the new maps. So despite the size being able to support a larger population by design, the implementation appears to be able to handle far less.

That is pretty much an across the board failure.

Perhaps if focus is shifted toward active, stimulating, and stable game play instead of ‘shiney’, this train wreck can be salvaged…. not holding my breath though given the history.

The thing is, ANET was clearly informed of the issues with the new map very early on in the beta process. Not only that, many of the WvW guilds that were invited to the beta became so frustrated with its design and concept, that they stopped playing it all together because it wasn’t fun.

The art work is beautiful, but clearly someone in a position of power at ANET made the decision to push ahead with the work that was already completed instead of listening to their target customers providing feedback. This was just another mistake in a long line of many when it comes to WvW… like lack of support in general that has driven entire guilds (and their PvE / sPvP players) away from the game.

1. Too much vertical shift

2. Too large, convoluted, and confusing

3. Too many gimmicky mechanics

4. Too many PvE elements.

They were clearly informed of this from day 1 of giving players beta access. They chose to ignore it.

Simply paying for the xpac should provide you access to the new classes instead of forcing you into game modes you care little about or even hate.

I am just glad I didn’t preorder the xpac.

The PvE requirement to unlock stuff was bad enough. The WvW changes, basically doing the exact opposite of what people in WvW had asked for, was horrible too. Taking away Friday reset and the affect it will have on the community is the final slap in the face.

Good luck to those of you trying to get your money back from the preorder. No luck so far with some of my guildies that are trying.

Gaile Gray.6029:

It will take place on Saturday evening to accommodate the requests of the majority of those expressing an opinion here in this thread.

To be clear – The majority of the people in this thread wish it to remain Friday night.

What you did was force something bad on us and offer up an even worse alternative. Whether you did that on purpose or not can remain a conspiracy theory, but a behavior pattern does tend to repeat itself, and this is just one data point in a rather large pool.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Lord Kuru.3685:

This cycle isn’t going to stop until something is done. The easiest is communication. Why not do something about that so everyone can move forward?

I believe we’re trying very hard to do that.

Try reading what was communicated to us originally and the follow up ‘reasoning’ from our perspective. Take into consideration how late in the game this was communicated and how it came across as a complete and total afterthought.

dancingmonkey.4902:

Atoss.1056:

My only problem was the ‘time’ of the day, because most ppl are busy during day time and have free evenings, that’s all.

What do you base this claim on? Who are “most people”? Why would they have free evenings and not free days, on a weekend? What metric are you using to claim and state what the other 5,999,999,999 people in the world do?

As I see it, this is a common theme in this thread that is problematic. Too many posters disingenuously claiming to tell us what people whom they know nothing about, in places they have never been, are thinking, feeling, or wanting.

Someone with real life experience in North America knows that schools are Monday through Friday and are most jobs. Someone with real life experience and families have a limited time to play as it is.

As someone with a real job a family, Friday or Saturday evening works reasonably well equally from that standpoint, the difference is that Friday no longer becomes an option for meaningful game play. Weekends are my time to get kitten done, spend time with family, and have time to myself (which I choose to game with). This is the norm and not the outlier.

So rather than playing Friday night (sometimes well into the early morning) and squeezing in a few hours to play during the day on Saturday, my entire guild will no longer be logging into the game ….period.

That is reality.

dancingmonkey.4902:

cillard.3986:

I am sorry you arent happy that people are this upset, but the truth is you gave us a preposterous alternative to help sell an already horrible one.

As I see it, the people" who are not upset, are simply the same %1 or less spamming the same thread over and over regurgitating similar complaints. That hardly shows any representation of “the people”’s perspective.

#1. 50 person active roster guild. 100% of whom are unhappy with it.

#2. Full map queue on reset last night with all but 5 people extremely unhappy about it. Out of those 5, 3 didnt care one way or the other and the other two it was more convenient for them.

3. The straw poll results. It isn’t perfect, but at least you can only vote once per IP address.

4. Numerous threads on different forums where people are complaining about it. Here, Reddit, server forum, guild forum, etc.

dancingmonkey.4902:

cillard.3986:

Your metrics on this are absolutely wrong

Proof?
What metrics are you using to determine your counterclaim?

I am using a combination of queue numbers provided by the game, feedback from people will no longer be logging in Friday to Saturday night, and general (and I would hope by now!) common knowledge of how the game works in regards to meaningful WvW in a matchup.

I have made my point numerous times as have others, I suggest you read them.

dancingmonkey.4902:

cillard.3986:

This is a huge hit to the WvW community and the only real reason you gave us is because it is more convenient for you.

And?
If you were forced to work an extra day a week because a small subsection of your customers were spamming complaints, would you find it reasonable?

So you logic is that moving reset from a weekday to a weekend evening means that ANET doesnt have to work an extra day a week. What proof do you have of that because it just scream contrarian BS to me? Define ‘small’ …how do you know it is ‘small’ ? Besides, working for a gaming company, software company of any sort, hosting service, and even IT work directly comes with the understanding that you work when and where you have to. If you are in the industry yourself, you will know that I speak 100% truth on that.

Gaile Gray.6029:

they’ve gone with what data supports, and with their initial plan. I think that’s a good thing.

How about you explain the data in detail for us? Actually dont even both, because it isn’t as relevant as you think it is on pure numbers alone.

Those of us who actually WvW day in and out, we currently have meaningful WvW on Friday nights with full map queues on many servers. This also means we log in and play on Saturday because it is important to the outcome of the match.

With this change, you are making friday and most of Saturday meaningless WvW and you will have far less people logging in than you do now (once the temp influx of people coming back to try the xpac are removed from the equation). The matchups are generally all but over by this time and the game devolves to karma training. Most of us really don’t want half of our weekend free time taken away from us.

I can also tell you that in my guild alone you will have 40ish or so less people online Friday to Saturday night. You are literally shooting yourself in the foot here.

I am sorry you arent happy that people are this upset, but the truth is you gave us a preposterous alternative to help sell an already horrible one.

Your metrics on this are absolutely wrong and do not take into consideration the reality of WvW and resets. This is a huge hit to the WvW community and the only real reason you gave us is because it is more convenient for you.

This is why you are getting the responses that you are.

Loosmaster.8263:

You wanted change, now you don’t.

Please post a link to where a good amount of the WvW community asked for this change, because it sure the hell wasn’t here.

Asking for change on one issue doesn’t discredit you for getting upset by a completely different one. Do I really need to explain the ‘why’ of this to you?

Jski.6180:

You can only play reset once a day in a week why would it stop you from playing other days of the week?

The issue has been explained numerous times by numerous people, including myself.

Take the time to read and comprehend.

Fryggenbart.3907:

cillard.3986:

I will not being playing Friday night now or most of Saturday, nor will most of my guild. Most of us will simply not log into the game because we only play strictly for WvW.

This means you got something else to do that is enjoyable for you?
Fine, so there is no problem at all, noone will die.

Right.

Which is exactly what I will be doing instead of playing this game.

Which is exactly the point to much of what is being said here in regards to their reasoning for the change not holding any water.

Thanks for making my point for me.

Jski.6180:

I think Saturday is the “best” in number of ppl being able to make it to reset you do lose the event of Friday night but it can start being a Saturday thing. I think the real problem is the time it self changes it may simply be too early for some time zones.

Your point would be partially valid if this change didn’t take away Friday night and half of Saturday (or most in the case of a normal reset time) all together. This change isn’t additive, it is vastly negative and will result in less players logged in for less hours overall.