Guild Wars 2

This map is basically a larger version of EOTM with less flow and more stupid gimmicks that get in the way of game play. Also, why why why are their NPCs all over the place.

1. There are freaking PvE mobs all over the place, some of which are quite the pain in the kitten to deal with. Why? Seriously, if I wanted to fight PvE mobs, I would go PvE, but like most WvWers, I hate it.

2. I really don’t want to WvW in a giant jumping puzzle. Too many elevation changes, jumping locations, and confusion. I fully realize that some of this is not being intimately familiar with the new map, but at the same time …it is grossly overdone.

3. Stupid gimmicks all over the place. If EOTM were a crack addict and had a baby, it would be this map.

4. Way too large. Bigger maps are good if the terrain was flatter and had less twists/turns and NPCs ….but bigger in addition to all the other crap just gets in the way of game play.

I suspect my thoughts (which are completely echoed by members of my entire guild) will fall on deaf ears, but this map is basically everything we hate about EOTM on steroids. We want large, flat areas free of NPCs to fight in, mixed in with some places that smaller forces can use to spread out and choke a large force if they are tactically smart and out play them. We don’t want stupid gimmicks that get in the way of game play (like the ones there now), but we DO want some mechanics in place that help to spread out blobs. The current implementation on the new map is crap.

This map is pretty much EOTM on steroids ….

Also…. make the kitten testing more reasonable for the people going out of their way to help you beta test your crap. Copy their toons for them with all their gear so they don’t wave to waste 30 minutes setting crap up before they can even begin to test. It is a waste of our time and a waste of yours.

Stephane Lo Presti.7258:

We are eager to see the strategic play that develops from the Desert Borderlands with its new mechanics, unique objectives, astounding beauty and layout that both supports team fights in some areas while breaking up blobs in other areas.
We look forward to putting a greater emphasis on holding objectives through auto-upgrades and on guilds through the guild claiming system, a system that gives players new ways to play the game and tools to defeat their opponents.

We hope you enjoy the live stream of our second stress test coming up next and we will see you on the battlefield.

Thank You.

The map is absolutely stunning in regards to the artwork, but it is absolutely horrible in regards to game play. It seems like everything the hard core WvW players have been telling you for the past couple of years fell on deaf ears. Everything we specifically said we hated about maps, you decided to throw into this one.

Major issues:

1. There are freaking PvE mobs all over the place, some of which are quite the pain in the kitten to deal with. Why? Seriously, if I wanted to fight PvE mobs, I would go PvE, but like most WvWers, I hate it.

2. I really don’t want to WvW in a giant jumping puzzle. Too many elevation changes, jumping locations, and confusion. I fully realize that some of this is not being intimately familiar with the new map, but at the same time …it is grossly overdone.

3. Stupid gimmicks all over the place. If EOTM were a crack addict and had a baby, it would be this map.

4. Way too large. Bigger maps are good if the terrain was flatter and had less twists/turns and NPCs ….but bigger in addition to all the other crap just gets in the way of game play.

I suspect my thoughts (which are completely echoed by members of my entire guild) will fall on deaf ears, but this map is basically everything we hate about EOTM on steroids. We want large, flat areas free of NPCs to fight in, mixed in with some places that smaller forces can use to spread out and choke a large force if they are tactically smart and out play them. We don’t want stupid gimmicks that get in the way of game play (like the ones there now), but we DO want some mechanics in place that help to spread out blobs. The current implementation on the new map is crap.

My advice is this:

1. Shrink the map so it splits the difference between the old map and the current implementation in half. That away it is larger than the old maps to help spread things out, but not too large like the current map.

2. Get rid of the freaking NPCs. My preference would be to get rid of all of them, but perhaps you could put some ‘camps’ in out of the way places and away from traffic flow at a drastically increased XP/loot bonus to entice people to farm them (and entice gankers to farm the farmers)

3. Flatten the map out some and make it feel less like a jumping puzzle in places.

4. Get rid of the overdone mechanics. They get in the way of game play, not encourage it. If you want mechanics in place to spread out the fights, do something like making it a requirement to hold two ‘towers’ before a ‘keep’ can be taken …or something similar. It doesn’t have to be ‘that’, but you get the idea. Something simplistic to achieve the required effects.

So the sigils were bugged before for some classes at least (perhaps all, but I didnt test the other). For example, it was hitting much harder on #1 skills for ele’s but about 25% lower on other abilities.

Perhaps they ‘fixed’ that bug in the wrong direction?

Well you quoted me directly ….and I wasn’t wrong.

Also the load on the servers and their network can be reduced through code optimizations or better written code. The opposite is sure the hell what caused the problem to get worse

So you aren’t completely right…..

CaptainShrimps.9143:

@Laraley.7695

Once you stack some might, Drake’s breath alone can easily deal over 8k total damage, and burning speed can crit for over 5k against zerker/marauder builds. Fire grab will crit for over 7k.

Edit: a half decent cele ele won’t die to any Mesmer.

Truth be told, any decent player can easily avoid fire grab and burning speed in sPvP. /shrug

Seems to be a PvP problem only and should only be adjusted there. Of course, we all know that will never be the case because ANET seems to be stuck on focusing balance around the game mode that has the smallest portion of the player base actively involved in it. Heh

Chobits.2430:

DX12 will not help skill lag because the skill lag has nothing to do with graphics performance or optimizations in Windows. It has to do with the back-end server’s capability to process data.

They put optimizations in a while back that helped the issue, but all the changes since that time have caused the problem to return with a vengeance.

I wonder how they expect their WvW population to purchase on xPac for a broken game mode if it will remain broken. /shrug

The ANET side of the problem needs to get resolved before they can have any reasonable expectation for WvWers to purchase the xpac.

Arobain.8274:

the lag has to do with your computer, not the game

You are absolutely wrong and obviously have no idea what you are talking about.

See this reference:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/WvW-Lag-March-2015/first

Like many other people I game with, this is a very large concern. I would like to support ANET and drop money on the xPac, but we need to know if this issue is being resolved or at least improved upon.

As it stands now, in large fights, the game becomes unplayable and it will be very hard to purchase an xPac for a game that is still broken.

Thanks

If you really want to stress test this map, let everyone have at it for a 24 hour period on the live servers.

The sad truth is that the current game cannot handle large fights well enough to be playable. If you have made some optimizations to improve that, then you need to give it a REAL stress test.

WvW eles are in a great place now. Fire/air/water is pretty broken tbh running staff due to the trait synergies. Strength runes arent optimal for damage though and full zerker gear is a horrible idea if you are fighting against numerous opponents, especially when you are grossly outnumbered due to the lack of sustained damage.

If group support is your thing there is a decent damage output staff build that is next to impossible for anyone to kill you when running it. If pick is going to take you out, they better bring three people.

Roaming builds d/d are pretty nasty as well. There is a pretty broken full condi build and an extremely broken celestial pressure build as well. /shrug… Seems like some of you are lacking in imagination.

Can a few of you stop acting like complete and total kitten bags to the one dev in the entire history of this game that has actually paid attention to the WvW community and openly communicated with us on a serious issue affecting us all.

Thanks.

I for one really appreciate this Stephen.

Stephen,

So yeah, unless everyone in my guild happens to be using the same ISP, I am having a hard time grepping that the port traffic is being confused as me being a torrent server and causing my ISP to throttle myself and everyone in my guild down simultaneously. Given that I know we aren’t all on the same ISP or in the same geographical location, I can also rule out a local or regional network issue.

With that said, one lead software engineer to another, I am not going to profess to tell you how to do your job and definitely not type up some long demeaning post like Reborn.2934 did. However, given all that we know, wouldn’t it be far more likely that the issues are stemming from a problem much closer to home?

We generally have two types of what, for lack of a better all encompassing term, I will refer to as “lag” affecting our ability to both play and enjoy the game. They generally also occur with each other and with the skill lag preceding the warping, stuttering, rubberbanding, and disconnects (personally I have yet to disconnect) pretty much every time. I would venture to say that I would notice this more even when in transit and not actively in an engagement as I play an ele as my main and am constantly changing attunements even in transit. As an ele, the skill lag locks me into an attunement with only the ability to use the #1 key. So I always notice when it happens whether roaming or fighting because it makes me a useless lump unable to fight or escape effectively.

So yeah back to the “lag”. The skill lag has always been odd, because of what I assume to be some sort of priority code because your #1 ability nearly always works even when the other skills are not firing. It is a slightly different subject, but one you really need to rethink because it is flawed for numerous reason. (i.e. without going into detail, kit/element changes should prioritize first, as should heal skills, THEN the attacks). This is a huge issue and has always been an issue, but for the most part the player base has adapted to it despite it being far from perfect. The problem is that since the stability patch, this problem has been happening more frequently, for longer duration, and with less numbers engaged in action to trigger it. It went from being tolerable, to making the game unplayable.

The “new” lag has been the rubber banding, stutters, and warping. Son’t get me wrong, the has always happened with some high speed movement abilities when the skill lag is present (examples: ride the lightning, burning retreat, fiery rush) but was more localized to just your character. Now when this stuff occurs, it happens to everyone.

Good luck in finding the problem and as I mentioned before, if you need any coordinated full loaded testing done, I can guarantee you the T1 NA communities will assist with whatever you need. Thanks

Stephen,

Thank you very much for talking to us about this issue and keeping us up to date. It is honestly a breath of fresh air and I can’t tell you how much we appreciate it.

With that said, if there is any kind of coordinated testing that you want to perform during NA prime time, the player community in T1 has the relationships across server and communicates enough with each other to be able to coordinate anything you may possibly need. Believe me when I say that we will be more than willing to assist you in anything and everything you may need to get this issue resolved. Our goal is one and the same, a fun and playable WvW experience.

Thanks

So did an ANET dev follow advice and actually log into the game and play during reset last night?

So last night was pretty much a nightmare of lag, disconnects to the point I have to wonder if you are openly trying to push your player base away by not responding to this issue? We have been dealing with this inability to effectively play and enjoy the game now for 3 weeks.

Amazing how relatively minor issues get a response, but we get left hanging. Absolutely silly.

Yes, it is a three sided fight so expect people to work together once in a while to beat up the third.

Last night on JQBL I literally spammed meteor shower for 30 seconds as a test during this server lag without getting it to fire once. Not sure how you expect us to play the game when it is like this, but it has been exponentially worse since the patch with the stability changes.

Some members of the ANET staff should really play tonight at reset on a server where there is guaranteed to be at least medium sized fights and consistent action. I recommend JQ/TC/BG to be guaranteed to see it in action and how badly it is breaking the game.

dancingmonkey.4902:

The problem I see here is that they have made several dev post on this matter and a dev created thread asking a few specific question that will help then to resolve the issue, but I only see a very very small handful of posters in this thread, who have posted in that one.

My question is, why are so many of looking to pointlessly complain and moan about, while going out of your way to contribute to the solution? Because if you actually cared about it resolving it, you would assist them by answering a few simple questions in that thread, versus making aggressive or in some cases, insulting comments here.

The dev post that they did make discusses latency from a network and connectivity perspective. Latency in that context and ping isn’t the primary problem. Admittedly there may be a secondary latency problem coming from the servers not responding, but the primary issue itself are the servers.

They can assist themselves by acknowledging the actual problem instead of trying to pass the buck onto users and keeping us up to date on actions they are taking. The can assist themselves by simply logging in to their own game tonight during rest on a server guaranteed to have medium to large fights and seeing it for themselves.

Doesn’t matter what server you are on or wvw zone, because it happens across the board once a certain amount of people get involved in a fight. I would expect some issues in a 80v80v80 fight, but since the stabo patch is has been happening even in 15v15v15 ……

Numerous posts in the WvW forums and bug forums.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/MASSIVE-Server-Skill-Lag-in-WvW-since-patch/page/2#post4947672

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/WvW-is-so-lagy/page/7#post4947611

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Condition-calculation-Stab-change-Lag/first#post4947774

Sorry, there was already an ongoing bug post that I missed. This is the one we should keep bumped instead:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/MASSIVE-Server-Skill-Lag-in-WvW-since-patch/page/2#post4947672

Didnt realize this was here when I made my bug post. This is the one that needs to stay at the top until it is addressed.

C&P….
Once a WvW engagement gets above 30-40 total characters on screen, the game begins to become impossible to play due to server side lag.

It begins by with skill delay, progresses to all skills but weapon skill #1 failing to work, and ends with plays warping all over the map, no abilities working, animations stopping, and lurching game play where is slows down/speeds up. Once the engagement ends and the server ‘catches up’ the game goes into super speed mode where everyone’s abilities fire at double speed or more.

This began they day you implemented the stability change patch and has gotten worse since. I can’t say if it is due to any extra calculations you are doing for the stabo changes or the precision enhancement to condition ticks, but it is absolutely making game play impossible in even medium size fights now. Doesn’t matter what server, tier, or borderland you are on …once a certain amount of people get in one place at one time, the game breaks.

There has been no official response to this or even acknowledgement that you are even aware of this issue and are working on it. Given that large amount of players, guilds, and gem store customers that participate in WvW, you owe us at least that.

Thanks

@ Talon

Seeing this issue first hand is very easy. Simply log into the game and play for an hour on reset tonight on a server where you are guaranteed to be involved in massive fights. For this I would suggest a T1 server like BG/JQ/TC.

Watch how the servers respond as more and more people get involved in the action. You will see slight skill delay turn into skills not working at all except weapon skill #1. This then progresses to the game not responding to the client to the point hitching, warping, and rubberbanding occurs. Then once the cause of the lag recedes, you will see the game ‘catch up’ by causing super speed on abilities (for example 2-3x normal speed on auto attacks)

Sure some of this happened before the stability patch, but it usually took massive numbers involved in a fight like 50v50v50 or more …..now the trouble can begin even with a relatively small engagement (even 15v15v15 can have issues at times).

So yeah, I am telling you exactly how to see this game breaking issue for yourself. All you have to do is take the time to observe it.

This isn’t a connectivity issue to the game server. This is an issue of the game servers themselves being under too much load that they cannot respond in such a manner that keeps the game playable. This begin with the stabo patch and seems to begin when 40-50 characters get together in the same area to fight (even saw it in PvE) and gets progressively and aggressively worse.

Sure it could be network bottlenecks somewhere, but I am still willing to bet it was a software issue from either the stabo or condition change in the last patch.

We probably need to keep a post bumped on the bug forum as well, seems like post here, especially old ones like this, get little to no attention.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/MASSIVE-Server-Skill-Lag-in-WvW-since-patch/page/2#post4947672

(edit to change link to a thread that had already been started)

The issue really isn’t latency, unless it is latency secondary to the servers getting thrashed and unable to respond effectively. Even in the 120ms range, the game should be pretty fluid and most definitely playable if the servers are responding correctly and have the resources to handle the load.

The stability patch is where the problem began, I am guessing either it was bad code (or good code that is doing too much due to poor design) or resources were redirected elsewhere.

The truth is, it is making the game unplayable in any circumstance where there are a lot of players on screen at the same time fighting (even PvE). Seems like around 40-50 people doing something at the same time and the game goes to crap.

I created this post because this is more a server resource issue than actual network latency…. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/Game-Breaking-issue-WvW-Unplayable/first#post4947547

dancingmonkey.4902:

Admit there is an issue? Where have you been? Living under a rock? they have made multiple post on the matter in the recent weeks. They have posted detailed feed back, comments about the issue, as well as asking for some very specific feedback, based on a few questions the posed, to aid with resolving the issue.

They addressed skill timing, the fps drop, and they addressed other issues the patch caused. I saw them also address a latency issue to the game server some people were having. None of those issues are the problem I am speaking of. This following dev posts going all the way back to patch day.

So exactly where are they addressing this issue here …. by all means link me to it.

Thanks

dancingmonkey.4902:

cillard.3986:

I think we can all agree that the devs dont even pay attention to this sub forum. Add in the fact that our wvw liason is MIA and doesnt even appear to play the game any more, a post here is probably a lost cause.

I do not agree with that. I believe they pay attention to it. I simply believe because of snide comments of this nature, they simply go out of their way to avoid posting in it.

I will politely disagree with you because they are supposedly professionals and professionals should know how to respond to disgruntled customers. Part of that is at least acknowledging problems and giving us feedback. The truth is that WvW is not their focus or priority despite the large amount of their player base involved in it… because they certainly respond to other areas of the game they are focusing on.

Also snide comments of this nature, as you put it, and generally due to people being disgruntled (and rightfully so).

The T1 queues are one thing, but the lag is happening independent of what borderland, tier, or server you are on. The only requirement needed for game breaking lag is the number of people on the screen. Seems like once that number hits 40-50 total, the game gets progressively and aggressively more unplayable.

And yes, even on lower tiers during prime time 45 in one place at a time is easily doable ….that would literally equate to a 15v15v15 from 3 servers.

Since this forum gets zero attention and our forum liason doesnt even use this forum (boggle) the best bet is for the WvW community to keep a bug post bumped to the top until they at least respond to it. I created one here to consolidate the complaints in the proper spot.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/MASSIVE-Server-Skill-Lag-in-WvW-since-patch/page/2#post4947672

(changed link to a post that had already been started)

I think we can all agree that the devs dont even pay attention to this sub forum. Add in the fact that our wvw liason is MIA and doesnt even appear to play the game any more, a post here is probably a lost cause.

I started a thread in the bug forum that we should do our best to bump and keep at the top until they at least admit that there is an issue and give us some feedback.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/Game-Breaking-issue-WvW-Unplayable

Once a WvW engagement gets above 30-40 total characters on screen, the game begins to become impossible to play due to server side lag.

It begins by with skill delay, progresses to all skills but weapon skill #1 failing to work, and ends with plays warping all over the map, no abilities working, animations stopping, and lurching game play where is slows down/speeds up. Once the engagement ends and the server ‘catches up’ the game goes into super speed mode where everyone’s abilities fire at double speed or more.

This began they day you implemented the stability change patch and has gotten worse since. I can’t say if it is due to any extra calculations you are doing for the stabo changes or the precision enhancement to condition ticks, but it is absolutely making game play impossible in even medium size fights now. Doesn’t matter what server, tier, or borderland you are on …once a certain amount of people get in one place at one time, the game breaks.

There has been no official response to this or even acknowledgement that you are even aware of this issue and are working on it. Given that large amount of players, guilds, and gem store customers that participate in WvW, you owe us at least that.

Thanks

shadow.6174:

Chill out and be patient. At least they are fixing stuff (even if a few at once). Here is something to show what programmers and developers can go through, and can give some laughs too: http://programmers.life/ :P

The point is that they rushed something to release without testing it properly, not that they are trying to fix it after the fact.

If I ever pushed code this poorly tested into a live system where I work, I would quickly find myself looking for a new job. Obviously my employer has higher standards of work.

Still has not been responded to and still had not shown up on any bug lists.

There is severe server side lag during prime time NA hours in WvW, to the point that it makes the game unplayable. This is quite literally a 2 year step backwards in performance. Combine that with the drop in FPS being reported, and you have massively screwed things up.

cillard.3986:

Tested with a guild thief with close to the same power level and all his attacks were proccing it around 1400.

Still broken btw…

Sigil of Fire is hitting for roughly 50% less damage than it should on some abilities. I have only confirmed the bug on my elementalist.

Sigil Damage Example:

Staff Fire #1 – 1400
Staff Fire #2 – 700
Staff Fire #5 – 700

Staff Water #1 – 1400
Staff Water #2 – 700

Staff Air #1 – 1400
Staff Air #2 – 700
Staff Air #3 – 700
Staff Air #5 – 700

Staff Earth #1 – 1400
Staff Earth #2 – 700
Staff Earth #5 – 700

Tested with a guild thief with close to the same power level and all his attacks were proccing it around 1400.

Running the heal % modifiers across the board, you can put out some pretty sick healing numbers and sustain healing. Just not worth it imo.

Sigil of Fire is hitting for roughly 50% less damage than it should on some abilities. I have only confirmed the bug on my elementalist.

Sigil Damage Example:

Staff Fire #1 – 1400
Staff Fire #2 – 700
Staff Fire #5 – 700

Staff Water #1 – 1400
Staff Water #2 – 700

Staff Air #1 – 1400
Staff Air #2 – 700
Staff Air #3 – 700
Staff Air #5 – 700

Staff Earth #1 – 1400
Staff Earth #2 – 700
Staff Earth #5 – 700

Tested with a guild thief with close to the same power level and all his attacks were proccing it around 1400.

Now I am all for retaliation and what it brings to the game, but it seems to be a bug to me landing a single attack can proc it multiple times from the same person. (i.e. the food, sigil, procs ….triggering it).

Another combat log example from dropping a single ability on an enemy blob ball:

Ability hits 10 targets instantly for base 800 damage.

I get hit 10x by retaliation for roughly 3600

Ability procs off of my attack for base 1200 each.

I get hit 10x by retaliation for roughly 3600

Sigil procs off of my attack for 900 each.

I get hit 5x by retaliation for roughly 1800

Food procs off my attack for 280 each.

I get hit 5x by retaliation for roughly 1800

1s later, 10 more people get hit by the first ability that I cant cancel or control

Ability hits 10 targets instantly for base 800 damage.

I get hit 10x by retaliation for roughly 3600

Ability procs off of my attack for base 1200 each.

I get hit 10x by retaliation for roughly 3600

1s later, 10 more people get hit by the first ability that I cant cancel or control

Ability hits 10 targets instantly for base 800 damage.

I get hit 10x by retaliation for roughly 3600

Ability procs off of my attack for base 1200 each.

I get hit 10x by retaliation for roughly 3600

*25,200 damage to myself in 2 seconds from a single ability. *

Combat log example from last night:

Auto attack hits 5 targets for 1500 each.

I get hit 5x by retaliation for roughly 1800

Ability procs off of my attack for 1200 each.

I get hit 5x by retaliation for roughly 1800

Sigil procs off of my attack for 900 each.

I get hit 5x by retaliation for roughly 1800

Food procs off my attack for 280 each.

I get hit 5x by retaliation for roughly 1800

One attack I do 7200 damage to myself immediately. Is retaliation supposed to proc off of everything like that?

TyPin.9860:

cillard.3986:

Aeolus.3615:

i guess OP died thinking his zerker could AOE bag farm with 1 skill, nowadays this seams obvious by gw2 standards.

That isn’t a fair comment to some class/builds that have no choice but to AoE.

For example, I have seen ele’s not even running a piece of zerker gear blow themselves up or be forced to mist form with a single meteor shower or ice bow 4. I’ve also see it happen on a single static field drop with LR when not even trying to dps.

/shrug

So it is avoidable. I think it’s an issue of adapting tactics.

So I wasn’t complaining about retaliation to be clear, I was simply pointing out that the statement I quoted was lame and why.

So yes mist form helps you avoid retaliation damage, which is awesome. However, you can’t rightfully say it is a matter of adapting tactics considering the cooldown of mist form is extremely long. Unless of course your idea of ‘adapting tactics’ is only hitting damage spells every minutes and a half or so.

sephiroth.4217:

Retal hasn’t hit that hard in nearly 2 years…

I’m currently playing full zerker 56021 s/d + staff ele and my meteor shower only hits me with enough retal to take away maybe 10% health at most which is completely healed just by switching to water…

I didn’t say it hit hard. What I posted is 100% valid and true in today’s game.

We are constantly fighting with a guild group vs. map blobs and I guarantee you if you actually land your meteor/ice bow 5/static w/LR on a map blob blasting for retal you will probably get downed faster than you can mist form in zerker gear.

I am going to assume you aren’t fighting 30 v 80 and are probably on lower tier. Nothing wrong with that, but if you are only losing 10% health (roughly 1400 with stacks or thereabouts) in zerker gear vs. retaliation with a meteor you are getting less than 7 pulses of damage from all your meteors combined on retaled targets.

In my situation, I can drop a pro single static field while running lightning rod ….which causes it to tick retaliation twice (once for the static damage and once for the LR damage) on a map blob on their pin to CC it and take 40+ x 2 ticks of retaliation from it. Assuming 250 per tick of retaliation that would be 20,000 damage.

Aeolus.3615:

i guess OP died thinking his zerker could AOE bag farm with 1 skill, nowadays this seams obvious by gw2 standards.

That isn’t a fair comment to some class/builds that have no choice but to AoE.

For example, I have seen ele’s not even running a piece of zerker gear blow themselves up or be forced to mist form with a single meteor shower or ice bow 4. I’ve also see it happen on a single static field drop with LR when not even trying to dps.

/shrug