Guild Wars 2

I haven’t. How do I do that, out of curiosity?

Yeah, I tried ensuring everything lined up just right. The proper devices are selected, both in-game and on my terminal’s side, the volume levels are where they should be. Still super quiet. This is perplexing.

I’ve messed with the audio sliders, changed the output device, but I can’t figure this out. With my previous laptop, I didn’t have this issue. On other games, I don’t seem to have this issue either.

It’s most noticeable when there’s dialogue in the open world. For instance, a LOT of dialogue in HoT. Most of it, in fact. It’s extremely quiet, almost inaudible even at high volume levels. Then, in cutscenes, the audio is a lot louder and clearer – what I figure it SHOULD sound like at its current settings.

I’m not using a headset. I’m often not on Skype or anything when running the game.

Any ideas?

I intend to run high settings, or at least mid-to-high. I don’t intend to march around with ultra-high/max settings. I mean, I DO want to be able to function in the Silverwastes and HoT area, after all. XD

Anyway, I went ahead and ordered the first one – the Leopard. I’m optimistic about it. The second one, while potentially better, lept up in cost when I went to checkout, so the heck with that.

Additional/better cooling systems, and a mouse that doesn’t suck will be my next purchases. Any recommendations there?

Oh. I also found this here, which looks a lot like the other one, only bigger. It’s also cheaper, even if you upgrade the RAM from 8GB to 16GB.

Am I missing something here? I hate to sound technologically stupid, but this feels like I’m missing something.

Yes. I’m going to be gaming on a laptop. No, I don’t intend to spend $1,000+ on it. I know I’m expecting a lot, but it has to be a laptop and I expect it to run GW2. And run it well.

Right now, this is what I’m looking at to do the job. According to this site over here the graphics card should be fine. The processor is probably fine.

I dunno. I’m scared of spending that much money and risking getting disappointed. I’m not looking for consistent ultra-high settings, but right now, my FPS hovers around an optimistic 18.

What do you guys think?

Salamander.2504:

What’s happening:
When you load into a new map or underwater, your graphics options reverts to “Native”. It will still display Subsample.

How to Fix:
Change your graphics setting to Native, then change it back to Subsample. You’ll need to do this every time you go underwater or load into a new map. If you don’t want to deal with this, just keep your graphics settings on Native.

Absolutely confirmed for me. Wow. Excellent catch, Salamander, and a very heartfelt thank you for posting it.

This is definitely a bug, and I’m extremely relieved to find that confirmed. That’s a huge load off my mind. And thank you again for the operational fix until they get it straightened out. I just bump the “Settings Preset” to “Autodetect,” then to “Best Performance,” and that cleared it up, as indicated.

Zoltar MacRoth.7146:

This should probably be merged with the ‘underwater black screen’ post now, where Anet have communicated that they are investigating and have asked for GPU specs. I’ve provided mine and I’m pretty sure my laptop might fall into the sucky range too lolzertank. You’re not alone.

The reason I didn’t direct my focus onto the ‘underwater black screen’ thread is because my issues are BEYOND the water glitch. The graphics baseline seems to’ve been updated since that patch, and while it has bizarrely resulted in higher-than-ever FPS of 30 (as opposed to around 22) when standing still, the moment action happens, it plummets into a stuttery mess. Whereas before, combat could flow and the FPS would remain relatively steady.

I don’t know, maybe there’s an internal stability issue that’s come with the new patch. But this update has made combat extremely jilted for me. I don’t dare do fractals like this. So I’d like to know what’s going on, what they updated, and if there’s any way of throttling it back.

After that last patch (or the one before it, now? I think there was a patch tonight), it looks a bit like there’s a graphical improvement.

I notice these things, because I play on the lowest settings. I play on the lowest settings because that’s all my laptop can handle. The upgrade seems to be with textures or something, and here’s what I’ve noticed:

1.) Character models are a lot sharper. This is neat.

2.) As soon as I enter the water, my screen freezes – sometimes for several seconds. This is very bad.

3.) My FPS seem higher than normal, reaching up to 30 sometimes. It used to cap around 22. So this is good! But then it seems to plummet if there’s action, dropping to around 14. This is very bad by comparison. Whereas before, the FPS was considerably more steady, now combat is getting tricky.

Can we get some clarification about what’s been changed? If there are going to be any additional options in the video settings to smooth things back out? All of my settings are still on the minimum, so I’m at a loss.

Ever since the new trait patch went live, I’ve been noticing something weird.

In places where there is an adjustment in ambient lighting (such as fireplaces and other such glowy areas), skin takes on a mottled, washed out color, and eyes take on a color reflective of whatever glow effect is taking place. And I tried this in places where there are blue glows – same thing happens.

After doing some testing, I’ve found that this seems directly related to your shader settings. If it’s on “low”, you get nailed with this annoying deal. If you put it on “medium”, it clears up instantly.

This is a super annoying thing to happen, since I sort of have to play on minimal settings. My six-year-old laptop can’t handle much in terms of graphics, and it’s already operating at really low FPS. So bumping the shaders up isn’t exactly a good solution for me.

I understand technology changes, but I’d much rather prefer to see this as a bug than an, “Upgrade or get screwed,” situation. Especially given it didn’t go into effect until the trait patch went in.

I’m including some screenshots to demonstrate the differences.

http://i57.tinypic.com/25in9rp.jpg
^Natural lighting. Looks relatively normal.^

http://i57.tinypic.com/33ts1nc.jpg
^In front of the armorsmith forge in DR. Notice anything weird?^

http://i59.tinypic.com/27x2uip.jpg
^Also effecting nearby NPCs.^

http://i57.tinypic.com/ek5ehc.jpg
^Same position, but with Shaders turned to “medium”.^

Pretty noticeable, wouldn’t you say?

This post won’t be focused on the gameplay content or new mechanics, but the graphical presentation and its pull on resources vs. what we’re used to.

To preface, my machine is not optimal. To run GW2 reasonably, I have to work on minimal, or next-to-minimal settings. But every map does run fluidly enough, and I can handle fighting Teq and Jormag’s Claw. The latter is usually a bit laggy, but still do-able. It’s unfortunate, but I know I’m not the only one who has to experience the game this way.

I’m pretty sure it’s common knowledge by now that Dry Top and Silverwastes require considerably larger amounts of resources; crippling to those of us with weaker machines. I’m not sure why those maps would run at such an agonizingly slow pace when the open fields and busy cities across Tyria don’t, but that’s a thing.

My initial concern when the expansion was announced was that Dry Top and Silverwastes were being used as a sort of “graphical litmus test” to determine if whatever settings were being used (that made them so darn slow) would be permissible to use in future maps moving forward. If that were the case, and they deemed it acceptable, I simply wouldn’t be able to take part in the expansion. It wouldn’t even be feasible.

I needed to know whether or not I would be able to join in, so I farmed for the beta access key. That was three days straight of farming the Silverwastes. That’s how badly I wanted to know if I could play the expansion, just to put things in context.

My Determination

My Beta test started in the Silverwastes, which of course meant excessive lag and unnecessary, completely preventable deaths. I was trying out the new profession, too, so unfamiliarity with the skills likely played into this as well, but not nearly as much.

The story mission, the details of which I’ll avoid for spoiler’s sake, introduced me to a new map – and, sadly, what felt like the same overt pull on resources. I slugged through it and made it into the map proper.

This is where it became a sort of mixed bag. I feel like the map is closer in performance with the mainstay of Tyria, which is great, but only in certain areas. The volume of people milling around could have been impacting things, as well as maybe some internal instability, I don’t know. But I do know there’s a lot of ambient, but graphically-sophisticated effects happening that are the likelier culprits.

So here’s my feedback.

To players: Those of you who are presently running GW2 on minimal or low graphics, buckle up. Though the second non-instanced map I experienced was a lot better than the Silverwastes or Dry Top, it was NOT a smooth run. This could mean the graphics curve is being raised, which is bad news for us.

To developers: There are three options that I see here.
-The first is to proceed as normal, which unfortunately may result in a dropoff of loyal, but financially-strap players simply for their inability to play the content.
-The second is to rein back whatever it is that’s being such a toll on resources – I have every faith that your team knows what these aspects are better than I.
-The third, make it a choice. As I suspect those pretty special effects are the cause of the resource-devouring, give us a toggle to turn it off. People in my position have already made the choice to surrender prettiness in favor of playability; help us stick with the community.

In the end, this matter would benefit a lot from developer response so we have a clear idea of what to expect and prepare for.

I hope this has been helpful!

As someone who has a burning hatred for “outfits” in their current design (as opposed to piecing them together from components like they used to), I actually really dig this one. Generally speaking, it’s cool.

I’d actually get it, but for one detail: those scrolly-things just hanging on the front of the jerkin. I have no idea what they are, why I’d be carrying them, and it breaks the flow of the outfit for me. Without them, it looks sleek and streamlined. With it, it looks cluttered and inhibiting.

So my feedback is that the outfit’s cool. But it’s suffered from over-design.

(Sorry for the doublepost! Continuing!)

4.) Flying mounts will give unfair advantages!
I actually haven’t seen anyone asking for flying mounts. I think this is a problem of assuming anyone who wants mounts must want what’s on WoW – where, as I understand it, flying mounts are basically their version of waypointing.
Horses don’t fly. Moas don’t fly, either. Broomsticks do, though, apparently. If you’re worried about a flying mount, refer to that. That’s almost certainly all the flight functionality you’ll ever see out of a mount in GW2. Relax.

5.) The speed bonus is unfair!
Again, refer to the mounts already in-game. Is the broomstick unfair? If you feel it gives them a serious tactical advantage, maybe you should get one. They’re already a thing in GW2, they’re very unlikely to change. When your beef is with something that’s already been coded and implemented, this seems like an ineffective venue to lodge your complaint. Make a broomstick thread, because if mounts are implemented, there’s a very strong chance they’ll follow what’s already in-game.

6.) Cluttered with particle effects!
Highly doubtful. Horses and moas don’t sparkle. Heck, I remember driving a charr tank and even that didn’t have unwieldy particle effects. Give your designers some credit. And even still, this is a comment/complaint for the designers, not the people asking for the thing itself.

7.) Developers should be focused on more important things!
This one is the most irritating to read. It seems to assume there’s only a couple developers who are tasked with handling absolutely everything on their own. And that everything else is entirely more important.
The matter is truly subjective on both sides, for those who want mounts and those who want other things to take developer focus. People have different opinions and priorities because we play differently. But there are a couple things to keep in mind. First, this is something that’s been requested for a very, very long time. That probably gives the indication that there’s money to be made and people to be pleased by exploring it. The second is that it’s not up to you or me what takes priority in development – that’s up to the paid staff. Let them decide what will make them money and make their population happy.

I’ve been avoiding making posts on this topic for a long time, simply due to the toxicity that seems to follow it, but heck with it. I’m saying my piece.

There’s no reason mounts shouldn’t be expanded. People want them and they aren’t breaking or damaging the game. That’s all the reason there needs to be to get it passed.

There are certain excuses in these threads that keep getting repeated.

1.) This is not WoW! Go back to WoW!
LotRO is also not WoW, nor is SW:TOR. Both have mounts – does that suddenly make them both WoW? Just because games share a feature or concept does not mean they’re copying each other, nor does it mean they are they wanting this game to be like the other. It’s possible to simply like something and want it to be a part of your game. We’re playing GW2 because we like GW2. It doesn’t mean GW2 can’t, nor shouldn’t expand.

2.) Mounts will break my immersion!
How’s that broomstick working out for you?
Mounts can come in a wide variety of styles, as the developers have already demonstrated in what’s been released. The people who are still asking for mounts are likely asking for horses or mechanical mounts, like a charr bike – something with a more natural, less comical feel to achieve a certain image. We know that the charr have made large-scale mechanical rides, so something smaller and more personal isn’t beyond feasibility. And even though I’ve not seen horses roaming anywhere that I recall, I have heard NPCs refer to them in passing. So they exist, even if their presence has been downplayed.
An alternative I’ve mused over is the possibility to ride moas. They’re plenty big enough, and they already come in a wide enough variety to give players their choice in cosmetics. Except norn might have to settle for riding dolyaks. But how awesome would that be?
The short is, mounts already exist. It actually makes less sense that logical mounts (not broomsticks, for clarity) aren’t already in use by the general public.

3.) We already have waypoints!
So what? I’ll take this on from two different angles. The first, IC/Immersion.
-Not many people actually use those waypoints aside from the player characters. How many escort events have you done, when just waypointing would solve everything? How many ‘hold the base’ events have you done, wherein the whole thing would be so much simpler if reinforcements just waypointed over? The point is, waypoints are an option, not the bottom line.
Now, for the simple gameplay angle…
-Yes, waypoints are an option. An option. But they’re still not the bottom line. Some people actually like to see the map they’re traveling. And being able to see your character trek across a map on a mount could be pretty cool. The people who spend money or put the effort into getting a mount aren’t the ones who view waypointing as the absolute solution. If you demand total efficiency, that’s up to you. But it’s certainly not a reason to stop others from enjoying the game a different way.

(continued, sorry for length!)

MarkPhilips.5169:

azizul.8469:

Darmikau.9413:

Can somebody explain the proposals for non-instanced Guild Halls to me? The entire point of the system is to provide an area specifically for your guild removed from the rest of the world. Non-instanced Guild Halls already exist; going somewhere on the map and telling your guild to meet you there. Guild Halls don’t need to exist on the map, and they don’t need to allow random players to stumble upon them. They need to be built specifically to the exclusion of non-guild members.

There are some good ideas in here, but honestly, the Guild Hall system from GW1 is all the game needs, with some GW2 polish. In that respect, I can’t fathom why anyone would want to take up actual space on the map for Guild Halls, let alone have them be accessible to non-members of the guild, with the exception of guesting.

Proposal Overview

Guild Halls, as seen in Guild Wars© .

Goal of Proposal

Give Guilds a private, isolated area for Guild Members to meet, spar, host GvG, Roleplay, and organize.

Proposal Functionality

Open the guild panel and click the “Guild Hall” button to be taken to the private map somewhere in the Mists or the Battle Isles and meet with other members of your guild.

Guild Halls are purchased with a Celestial Sigil, which can be earned in PvP, as a drop from a Champion Bags or World Chest, from the Fractals end reward, or from gaining ranks in WvW. Unused sigils can be sold on the trading post, or consumed to grant Guild Influence.

To Purchase a Guild Hall, speak to the Guild Registrar to preview one of the various halls. Once a desired hall has been selected, trade in the Celestial Sigil to purchase that hall for your guild. Only Guild Leaders may do this. Once purchased, a guild hall may be further upgraded for a gold cost with an armor repairer, crafting stations, a merchant and BLTC representative, and more.

Guild Halls will be about the size of a medium instance. Think Hero’s Canton or Salma district, perhaps slightly larger. Guild Halls include:

Heath of the Ages (Krytan-themed guild hall)
Heritage Courtyard (Divinity’s Reach-themed hall)
Genius’ Laboratory (Rata Sum-themed hall)
Bloodstone’s Call (Maguuma-themed hall)
Dreamer’s Sanctum (Grove-themed hall)
Unseen Ones’ Lair (Tarnished Coast-themed hall)
Swashbuckler’s Outpost (Lion’s Arch-themed hall)
Destiny’s Stand (Airship/Breachmaker-themed hall)
Spirit’s Retreat (Snow/Lodge-themed hall)
Freezing Tundra (Icebrood-themed hall)
Fallen Kingdom (Ascalonian-themed hall)
Legion Forgeworks (Black Citadel-themed hall)

And possibly more.

Associated Risks

People are too happy that GW1 halls are back, and they spontaneously combust.

+1. GW1 Guild Hall is all that we need for a Guild Hall. Instance GH, discount merchant, place to do have a scrimmage, etc….

+1 for me too

Adding my +1 to this.

Possible inclusion would be the ability to invite guests. But even if that weren’t a possibility, my vote strongly stands with this.

Don’t care about a “spar” functionality, though.

When you’re right, you’re right.

This is something I (and apparently a majority of others) never noticed, but now that it’s been pointed out, is fairly interesting. I doubt this was anything more than a simple oversight in the design team, and nothing a renaming couldn’t handle.

It’s important to note that a few of the “longbows” in the game do actually qualify as longbows. So not all of them are masquerading as recurves or compounds. But still, this could be an easy fix – it’s not like there’s a bajillion different types of bows to go over.

No reason this can’t or shouldn’t be done. We’re not facing a “re-do the traits system or rename some bows” decision. We can have both, if the devs deem it important. Especially considering how simple this one would be to implement.

I actually like these ideas and support them. This was a very well-made post, Shaman. It deserves a bump.

Please take the time to read this one, Devs.

That’s actually the quote I’d use to counter that, I’d just highlight different facts. To wit, every enemy you kill dies on fire, and looking as if they’re burning – and a lot of those deaths are really graphic. Their death to fire is more convincing than when they die on fire from a Guardian’s Virtue of Justice.

Let’s not confuse game balance with logic here. You could make the argument that they’re dying from the illusion of being on fire, but I have a sincerely difficult time buying that. Moreover, the blades of the weapon itself aren’t edged. Pointed, sure, but no edge. It doesn’t kill the potential for damage from the weapon, sans fire, but it does greatly limit it. (Note: even rapiers have edges.)

The implication here is that the damage is largely fire, and that the fire is very real. It just doesn’t cause coded burning damage.

I’m not saying people can’t RP that it’s an illusion. Not at all. I’m just saying I personally don’t buy that. I also don’t buy that most of the people who use the weapon would be upset or annoyed at the weapon skin becoming more dynamic. I, as someone who uses it, would like to see that change.

I might’ve thought someone’s posted this before, but I didn’t see any with a cursory glance. So if this is a repeat, sorry about that!

Anyway, the Fiery Dragon Sword is really cool. But having it constantly churn with fire, even when ‘sheathed’ (buckled, hung, clasped? I’unno.) is a bit much, in my opinion. It makes the sword crazy busy, whereas if the flames kicked on only when wielded, it’d be pretty dramatic. For an idea of what I’m talking about, you need only reference the Cobalt greatsword.

Another way of looking at it is from an RP perspective. If you had to decide on a weapon to carry, would you choose to carry the one that’s going to burn down the building you walk into if you brush past something? Or catch someone’s clothes on fire if they stray too close? Your other weapon might not be as impressive, or even do as much damage, but at some point people are going to consider you more of a liability to be near or have around.

You get what I’m saying. Anyway, that’s my two cents. Really cool sword, would be cooler if the flaming aspect were more dynamic.

What do you think, Developers?

Just adding my two cents to this discussion:

I’ve been having extreme, unrelenting lag in Dry Top. I admit my machine is outdated and runs on minimal settings already, but the rest of the game runs pretty smoothly in almost every situation (with the exception of certain LS instances). But Dry Top is nearly impossible, both in instanced areas and in the main map.

My speculation is that it’s a ton of ambient effects. I understand that my situation isn’t the standard, but it’d be nice if there could be some middle-ground. Maybe an option to toggle off those effects? Or if nothing else, just something to consider for future content release.

Happy to see the Devs are looking into this, either way!

Hamfast.8719:

With regards to the thread, maybe they could come up with some kind of OUTFITS for swimwear that only appear when you go underwater (like the aquabreather does). You would THINK that that would please both sides of this issue. Nothing immersion-breaking or unnatural about a bikini underwater, right? Well… until you go underwater in Frostgorge Sound…

While I can appreciate that you’re looking at it from a different angle, I don’t think anyone’s going to want that compromise. Having an entire outfit vanish outside the water makes as much sense as an entire outfit vanishing in the water. Aquabreathers get away with it because they’re generally just a mask. Someone could slip that on and off pretty easily, conceivably.

I think the people wanting swimwear to be introduced are going to be pretty firm about their expectations by now. I know I am.

18 pages of this. I wish I had time to read it and make sure no one’s brought this up before, but here goes.

For starters, I love the new wardrobe system. I sincerely do. I think it’s a huge convenience, it’s innovative, and actually pretty fun to use. I find myself trying various pieces together just for the sake of seeing how it’d look, whereas before, I probably wouldn’t even have considered it.

But my drawback is how the transmutation system seems to have really toppled. I’ll explain.

The conversion ratio of 3 transmutation stones to 1 charge is fine.
The conversion ratio of 1 transmutation crystal to 1 charge is also fine.

This, however, seems to’ve left a large number of people with leftover transmutation stones, and nothing to do with them. And on top of that, the scarcity of these items has skyrocketed.

I understand that we’re using a new item, but let me put this into perspective; I was sitting on enough transmutation stones prior to the update to warrant over sixty transmutation charges. Not crystals, stones. And a large chunk of that was thanks to daily chests.

I’ve been doing my dailies consistently since the patch, and I’ve earned zero charges for it. According to the wiki, they’re a thing that can happen. But with them apparently being so crazy rare, people are really very unlikely to use them nearly as much as your wardrobe system’s implementation probably was intended to encourage.

So, here’s my suggestion: keep releasing transmutation stones. Keep the exchange going. It’ll help the people with leftover stones not feel like they have wasted effort (or worse, wasted cash for buying them in the gemstore) and encourage people to use this awesome wardrobe feature more often for a greater variety of player appearances.

Leave the stone rarity in the daily chest the same as it was before, too. I mean, with best results, that’s someone putting three days’ worth of effort just to change one armor piece once.

I understand there’s no more dichotomy between charges (level 1’s can be transmuted same as level 80’s, no need for a ‘special charge’ or anything), but that kind of effort should still be recognized, right?

Does this seem like a fair suggestion?

Edit: I do think I should mention that the implementation/re-imagining of the town clothes feels like it was handled badly. I won’t go into as much detail here as I did in the above remarks, since so many people have voiced the same, but here are my comments.

1.) Tonics are not good. I don’t mean to be harsh here, but that was a terrible idea. Fix what was already in place. I get that you’re trying to give them a piece of what they had, as opposed to nothing at all (for certain sets, that is), but the community feels pretty insulted by this. Get rid of tonics. All outfits need to function like outfits. You can do better.

2.) The ability to mix and match outfits was one of the coolest things people could do with them. It made them distinct, personalized. Taking that away has left most people feeling really generic. Outfits need to function in the same way as your armor, mixing and matching them, or leaving certain pieces off.

3.) It’s a wonderful adjustment, making outfits wearable in combat. There are some nay-sayers out there, but you’re going to reach a much, much bigger audience by broadening the potential. You’ve made a strong step forward, but don’t stop your momentum.

In the end, the playerbase wants to support you. We just need something that we can get behind.

ScribeTheMad.7614:

But I’m pretty sure you can get the trait from the defense event as well, I’d swear I got at least one that way :/

I do believe they patched it to allow this to work, yes. People only clamor for it to fail because of the “loot phase” that the Grenth temple goes through, if you’re claiming it. And the big chest, but I only ever hear people hoot for the loot phase.

Rauderi.8706:

cyanweapon.7290:

There’s always one person in particular who takes it upon themselves to champion the notion of what all ‘good’ players must do in that event. And they’re always the most belittling, abusive, egotistical little goblins society has to offer.

I’ve learned to make liberal use of the ignore feature. Once you know how the event works, it makes the whole thing a lot more peaceful.

And if they’re real abusive, swearing and the like, right click the name and report. I do not hesitate in that.

For some reason, that thought never occurred to me. I have something new to try.

There’s always one person in particular who takes it upon themselves to champion the notion of what all ‘good’ players must do in that event. And they’re always the most belittling, abusive, egotistical little goblins society has to offer.

I’ve learned to make liberal use of the ignore feature. Once you know how the event works, it makes the whole thing a lot more peaceful.

Abusive.1849:

i think the issue with this is that a LOT of people will transmute their default armors into swimsuits. Imagine running Tequalt with half the zerg in swimsuits lol..when you put it that way, its quite fitting since the fight does take place on a beach but imagine doing jormag with swimsuits

I’m a little fuzzy on the mechanics of an “Outfit” object, but I don’t think you can transmute your armor into one. They just replace the visual of your equipped armor.

That being said, yeah. Them kooky kids will probably do that for a while, until they stop getting a reaction from it. Then they’ll move on to the next thing, or simply stop after realizing fighting a giant monster in an armorsuit just looks cooler.

Pure Heart.1456:

I suggested swimwear way back when they released the Southsun Island content.
I thought it was breathtakingly disappointing that swimwear wasn’t added in the gemstore for that content release. It’s a real shame and missed opportunity.

Indeed!

There were some leaks that suggested they were in the making, too. But they never came out, and odds are, it was because of the way it was coded. Having a swimsuit that vanished in water’s pretty jenky.

But with the advent of the new wardrobe system, outfits no longer vanish in those situations. So a swimsuit is viable! That’s why a lot of us are clamoring for it this summer.

@Conncept

Gone off the deep end.

You’re changing the argument. We were talking demographics. Mine is more important than yours by Point 2 because my demographic gives ANet money. Yes, proof can be provided that money is important. Deal with it.

Your argument is immersion, but with the backhanded approach of saying none of this is necessary. You have the expectation that people will use it in a means that takes you out of immersion. Without coming out and saying it, your suggestion is to not have it until a more peripheral adjustment is made to the core mechanic.

You were not agreeing with me. Your condescending tone may have masked that, to be fair. But regardless, to respond to accusing me of being “illogical”, “selfish”, and even “immoral”, I reference you to the context for which you’re attacking me:

If my demographic wins, ANet makes money. If your demographic wins, it becomes a serious missed opportunity. It’s that simple.

In the interest of avoiding a flame war, I’m not going to respond to you any further. I’d wish you the best of luck, but I sincerely want swimsuits to be successful if they’re ever released.

@Conncept

I’m not going to quote all that mess. I’m just going to say that anyone who reads back over this will clearly see that you’re contradicting yourself.

There’s no assumption in point 2. More widespread use means more money in ANet’s pocket. You’re worried about the wide-spread use, because to you, that takes you out of immersion.

This topic is asking for the release of swimsuits. You said, yourself, that you’re not opposed to the idea of them. Yet now, your position has switched to what sounds like suggesting the item shouldn’t be created at all, or those of us who want them need to just deal with the fact that they can’t be used in water.

Ridiculous. Purely ridiculous.

But as Lishtenbird said, we’re not going to reach any kind of compromise with you on this subject.

Conncept.7638:

No offense but that is completely illogical personal bias. Why is your player demographic more important than mine? Why can’t you guys shrug off that it can’t be used in combat? There isn’t really any reason whatsoever, we just want two different things which can’t coincide under the current system, and neither of our playgroups is any less deserving of getting what they want.

Alright, my bad for thinking we both wanted immersion. Here’s why my demographic is more valuable than yours.

1.) We can’t shrug off that it can’t be used in combat because swimming is considered, by game mechanic standards, to be “combat”.
1a.) It is a swimsuit.
1a1.) Separating these two would make the outfit worthless. As I stated in my first post, “unacceptable”. There are those who would still get it for the sake of having it, but see Point 2a and 2a1.
2.) Not that any more reason is really needed, but your demographic’s position is based entirely on being upset that the object might actually be used.
2a.) Being used by more people means it’s more appealing to the playerbase.
2a1.) This means it’s more money in ANet’s pocket. This is a no-brainer.

There doesn’t even need to be a reason past that. But since I really feel this needs to be hammered in…

3.) Your position is fueled purely on a selfish fear that you might run into someone wearing the outfit in a situation that you personally deem unacceptable, like fighting.

“Bias” seems like a really poor word choice, coming from your position, sir.

Conncept.7638:

The difference is terrorism can be prosecuted, and similarly in game, trolling can be reported. But how on earth is anybody going to report a dysfunctional player for trolling by wearing an item which ANet themselves provided? That’s like reporting terrorists to a government that funds and publicly supports them.

Exactly.

The point is, the people guilty of trying to lower the level of fun are going to do it either way, by any means they can think of. There isn’t a way to stop it outside of reporting, and the proposed limit has the backlash of hurting the community who isn’t out to ruin your day.

So on the one hand, you have the option to inconvenience trolls by making them double click their tonic every time something aggros at them, while simultaneously chopping the knees off the people who’d want to use a swimsuit like a swimsuit. To clarify, the folks who like immersion – the people like you. On the other hand, you can shrug when you see a bikini chick swinging a sword at Jormag and say, “Them kooky kids,” and not let it get to you.

Make no mistake, you’re letting the dread of a certain group of players potentially going silly with the item put you at odds with the rest of us. Frankly, it sounds kind of like we’re on the same side and want the same thing overall. And it’s true, the weirdos are likely to be awkward with it, sure. But why punish the rest of us for that?

Conncept.7638:

cyanweapon.7290:

But the point is, it can’t be something that’s removed in combat. That’s not acceptable, and for a very simple reason: it’s a swimsuit. And SWIMMING counts, in game mechanics, as a combat-like scenario.

That’s a valid point, but I still don’t want to see them everywhere. We all know swimsuits if allowed everywhere would be used by players who just think it’s hilarious to stand out, make people feel uncomfortable, or break immersion for other players.

I think this is where it’s going to become a matter of opinion.

While I suspect certain players will, indeed, use them as an excuse to be awkward under the premise of it being ohhh~ so funny, I’d rather put the responsibility in the hands of the players rather than make a device faulty from the outset.

Now just bear with me, I think this is relevant.

Terrorism is the use of terror to achieve an ends, whether personal or political. While the most common method found in history is violence, doesn’t it seem like the protests here against this being made into an outfit is out of fear that there’s going to be backlash by a collection of dysfunctional players? Don’t let the fear of a group stop you from enjoying the game, or letting others enjoy it.

tl;dr: If we can’t swim in our swimsuits, the terrorists win.

I’m noticing some people vying for it to be a tonic, or that it should be removed if you enter combat (or combat-like scenarios, such as falling).

Now, I don’t know how tonics work exactly. I don’t use’em, myself. They seem pretty pointless. For one, if I’m getting an outfit, I want to pick and choose what pieces of it I’m wearing to make my own look. Secondly, I want the ability to color it and make it distinctly me.

To give a further disclaimer, since the advent of the wardrobe, I’ve had zero (0) access to outfits. So I can’t say with 100% certainty how much you can mix and match ANYWAY.

But the point is, it can’t be something that’s removed in combat. That’s not acceptable, and for a very simple reason: it’s a swimsuit. And SWIMMING counts, in game mechanics, as a combat-like scenario.

Yeah, same problem here…