Guild Wars 2

Making a legendary isn’t supposed to be a cake walk. It’s meant to make you touch as many parts of the game as you can.

I’m casual, and have 6 characters that I play quite evenly. I’m over rank 30 on every single one. I also roam, don’t play in the zerg if I can avoid it. Mind you I love WvW so a lot of my time is spent there.

Point I’m trying to make is if I ever want to create a legendary I too, like you, have to go to other parts of the game I don’t particularly care for. Dungeons, map completion, PVE grind for mats…. I completely understand why.

Argument goes both ways. I understand for someone who doesn’t participate in WvW that rank 30 may seem daunting, but if you can pump at all the other requirements for a legendary I promise you after you hit rank 30 you will realize how little effort it actually was.

Goodluck!

I don’t understand why people complain so much. I truly think what this company is doing is absolutely fantastic. I can definitely say if they were not coming out with so much content I would not be logging on as much as I do. (Do I think every single part of this game is crazy amazing? No. But it’s definitely the best MMO I’ve ever played).

The best part is its FREE!

If anyone lives in Canada, I’m sure you’ve seen that commercial where Scotiabank pays for everyones movie/popcorn one night. If this happened to the people complaining on this fourm I feel like after they watched the movie, they would come out and demand a refund because THEY didn’t PERSONALLY like the movie.

Does that not sound absolutely ridiculous? Because it’s pretty much what this thread is about.

Keep doing what you are ANET. It’s turning out to be the best MMO I’ve been a part of. The amount of dedication your employees have towards this product is outstanding. Keep it up

I’m kind of in the same boat as you, only my choices are:

Engineer
Warrior
Ranger
Mesmer

My choice would be:

Guardian:
1) I find it to be one of the most balanced classes in the game and I can really adapt and fill multiple roles in WvW. It truly makes WvW a lot more fun without having to change characters.
2) PvE/Dungeon I’ve never had an issue with him, and all I do is PUG. I’ve been on some scary PUG teams and have found that because of my build it probably made the difference of succeeding or not. Although I would assume giving the class structure in GW2 more than just a Guardian can fill that role.
3) Support: I’m not a huge solo player. I really enjoy being able to play a great supporting role. But don’t get me wrong, I can definitely handle 2v1 and sometimes 3v1 with this class so when I do want to solo play, I again don’t have to change to a thief, or ranger, or any other class… I can do it with my guardian, with only changing 1 or 2 traits. (Again, this could probably be said for majority of classes… And that’s why I enjoy this game so much. There is no defined tank, healer etc etc… Although some classes can do it better than others… You can still accomplish those roles with majority of classes in different ways).

I have fully geared/leveled Guardian, Necromancer, Thief, Elementalist and my Ranger is like 70ish but I’m not a huge fan of the class… Guardian is by FAR the top of my list and I constantly find myself always choosing my Guardian when I login.

I really enjoy my elementalist as well, but they have seen some hard times and I feel they are a very predictable class to play against as they don’t have as much build variety as other classes.

Goodluck with whatever you choose! And if you could help me decide between a Warrior/Mesmer/Engineer that would be awesome too!!

Arkanfel.8403:

Elementalist Owner.7802:

That doesn’t explain their leaving.

I love it… I post 260 words explaining why Kaineng NA left, and you say “that doesn’t explain it.” God I love the internet. If you really need a tl;dr for that, it’s “our NA guilds burnt out.”

Like I said, my server has lost for 16 weeks in a row and counting. We are just starting to lose outmanned buff in tier 7, but we still have it most of the time. If we could stay loyal and stay in DR despite our losing, why can’t RISE stay in KN after losing 3 times (even though the matches were very balanced…) and getting the outmanned buff once?

Going to go ahead and assume here that you’re native DR. If you are native DR and you don’t mind where your server is, you just don’t care as much about WvW as we do. That’s not a knock on you or anything—I’m just saying we would prefer to be competitive. Once that stopped being the case in Kaineng, players and guilds started to lose interest and flag on the battlefield and there was a snowball effect after our first loss. I tried my best to hold things together through the week NA during most of April, but it just wasn’t enough.

It’s not enough to say “well, we’re outmanned too!” You’re in Tier 7. I imagine there are still zergs there, but none of you have anywhere near the coverage that TC or FA does.

EDIT: Also, I resent the characterization that RISE/CO/RE left Kaineng “as soon as they started losing.” I was out there commanding every freaking day while we were ticking lowest PPT probably 85% of the time for a month, so I don’t want to hear it.

I have nothing but respect for you, your guild and for RISE. I’ve had a lot of fun running with you all.

I know you will find competition somewhere else. That’s easy, every tier has competition if you’re on the right server. But I’m confused how the reason for moving can be because you want to keep the competition fresh. Isn’t an uphill battle more competitive?

Kaineng has FINALLY hit a huge wall. It’s like a breathe of fresh air. The die hard WvW community of Kaineng has the opportunity to continue growing. But instead, a lot of people jumped ship.

If you don’t want to be the die hard WvW person who has to lead an entire community, then don’t be. No one is asking you to do that, and I don’t think anyone expects it. But don’t cop out and say you want to remain competitive. Admit that you just don’t want to put fourth the amount of effort you’ve had to in these last few weeks in T2. I don’t blame you, I don’t have the time to pull those kinds of shifts either.

Kaineng is still comepetitive, we will rebuild and remain competitive with or without you.

On that note, goodluck wherever you all decide to go. You will be missed.

Good job Kaineng on reset! There was some awesome coordination in TCBL. I don’t usually get to take part in reset nights but I had lots of fun fighting against TC/FA. Thanks for the great fights!

Yeah Arkanfel I completely understand you. It shouldn’t just be the responsability of the commanders to handle things. Unfortunately though that’s what being a leader consists of. You have to give out instructions, you have to motivate, and you have to keep on top of things otherwise people are just not going to learn.

I completely agree with you that Kaineng needs to step its tactics up. As a casual player I do my best to direct people towards doing the little things that you described and when I’m on I find that people listen to me. As far as I can tell it’s been a huge impact. But again… someone had to step into that role and instruct people. As a commander/leader that’s sort of an expectation. “Militia” as TC calls PUGs don’t typically think about strategy, they just want to go in, have fun for an hour, leave and rinse/repeat. But if you give them something to work towards, they will do it.

People need direction. Otherwise they just follow the tag.

I’ve been on when you’re commanding and you do a great job. Keep it up. But be more vocal on what exactly you need accomplished. Select a few people from your guild to take on that leadership role in order to accomplish the little things. Delegate people to do the things you just described that you can’t do.

:)

Thank you TC for all the love.

I’ve played on Kaineng since it’s very beginning. We have a very active WvW community.

We’ve recently dropped to third in our current tier. It won’t stop us from coming out full force on reset. But there are the areas in Mayo’s post that we are definitely lacking in and need support if we want to remain competitive in our current tier. Honestly speaking, T2 has been the best tier Kaineng has played in, even better than our T8 days.

If you’re guesting and checking us out. Message me in game if you have any questions or send me a PM on the forums. Hope to see you all soon!

I’m dissapointed with some of the Kain players that are taking some nasty opinions about server transfers. Take a look at your own server.

I apologize to TC/FA if any offense has been taking. As TC knows, Kaineng has always been respectful. Don’t let the opinion of a few ruin that reputation we have with you guys.

I understand that Kaineng players have been putting long hours into WvW and are exhausted as it seems we aren’t moving anywhere like we used to. Put your efforts into recruiting more people into your guild, making more members from your guild show up in WvW. Posting positive reinforcement into our transfer recruitment thread. But please, dont sit here being negative towards another servers success. It’s putting a bad taste in everyone’s mouth.

Kaineng is still strong. Our opponents are just getting stronger. It’s amazing that in a few weeks the scores have changed this much. I love the competition. Let’s be as competitive as we can be and make it hard for TC to take first place next week.

I did this the other day as well. Although I spent pristine relics so mine are more easily attainable than laurels. As a casual player it has taken quite some time to get 10 of those. (Since FOTM came out actually…)

I had no luck with customer service. I was essentially told. “I’d do something for you if I could. But I can’t, so sorry.” But… kitten happens.

I had a guildie yell at me saying it’s common sense. But nothing in this game that I can think of off the top of my head leads me to believe that offensive/defense are separate. It’s not like I have to have an offensive/defense option for regular jewlery. Why would I automatically assume that “This item is unique therefore I can only have one offensive and one defensive.” What I did assume based off of other MMO’s that “This is unique as it’s not easily obtainable.” or as someone else said that maybe it can be unique because only one of it exits. There isn’t even this kind of specific offensive/defensive requirement with legendary equipment.

My common sense assumption will not be the same as your common sense assumption. At the end of the day it’s an assumption. I could have looked it up, and I should have. That’s why I’ll just suck it up and go grind 10 more relics.

BUT this is great awareness for other players.

Arkanfel.8403:

Well it was fun while it lasted, Kaineng.

This server is done.

I think I’ve followed you commanding. Not sure where this is coming from BUT I hope you continue to fight for us as you do a great job.

Tier 2 Match Up is becoming so close, it’s definitely the best matchup I have been in. I enjoy it a lot more than Kaineng’s fun T8 days.

If you’re interested in coming and checking the server out feel free to message me in game at any time.

Good Job to both servers on reset. I’m really enjoying this match up regardless who is first second or third. I just hope no one gets bumped out!

Yeah I’d have to agree with WoR in your case. If you’re having trouble closing the gap, make them come to you

I’m using a reflection build and it eats rangers away.

As a casual player, I’m thankful I can’t just complete all my dailies on one boring map day after day. They are actually changing, they are still easy. They aren’t as mindless as they were before but that doesn’t make them “harder”.

Seriously people need to stop complaining. This game is FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE (minus cost of game) we should be happy we are getting the updates we are and that this game is as amazing as it is. Feel free to go play other f2p games that just put everything into cash shops.

:)

Tweaked this build a bit for my own playstyle and I’m absolutely loving it in WvW. Sometime’s fights last a long time if I’m playing other skilled players but it’s easy to outlast people.

One build I’ve had some troubles with is Confusion stacking Mesmer’s. I find I take a lot of damage from them because of confusion. How does confusion work with retaliation? What I feel like is happening is if I have retal up and a stack of confusion on me and other people attack me, I take damage from them, then my retal hits them, and then I take damage from that as well. Can anyone confirm if thats true? Am I the only one having a bit of problems with them? Suggestions?

Thanks

Anyone have a score update!

Thanks =]

kerona.3465:

The ironic part is every other server we’ve come upon when someone from any server says ‘hey, your guys might be doing this this and this’ they investigate it internally and take responsibility.

Suggest the same to Kaineng? We’re making excuses.

Great suggestion. Unfortunately I’ve lost count how many times this has been brought up. Time and time again. An the direction needs to be taken internally with WM. I’m sure they have a few bad apples. Most large guilds do. However, I cannot communicate to them and I haven’t even seen proof other than the opinions of anyone on this forum.

It’s been mentioned multiple times to the commanders that do speak English and they have posted proof they don’t bot.

What more do you want? Swing my imaginary ban hammer? Done.

kerona.3465:

fellyn.5083:

Yeah, only Kain is complaing about bugged queues…

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Any-Tarnished-Coast-citizens-agree

Not that I think that counts as proof. But it would be nice if Anet let us see our position in the queue to help know if it’s at least moving. That would go a long way towards getting rid of that sort of complaint, I think.

Ask your WM buddies to log some bots off so you can get in next time.

Ugh… Let’s not start this again…. If you really believe they are botting report them. The rest of us don’t want to hear this garbage resurface.

I’m glad they were sticking to their respective “side” in KBL map. From a strategic stand point if I were commanding in someone’s BL map I would not waste my time trying to take all the south positions if it’s much easier to take the west/east positions. For us (Kain) to accuse the other servers of “teaming” up is just rubbish. I hope you all smarten up because I’m sure we are doing it right back to them in their own BL.

Although this is something the server hasn’t seen because we haven’t fought large enough numbers yet I hope we all learned something from it as I’m sure its not going to change anytime soon (or… ever…)

Keep up the fight Kaineng in NA Prime Time! We may not be perfect but Kaineng’s are very quick learners

Thanks DB/Mag for the fun fights. hopefully Kaineng can finally gain a little bit respect as a competitive server now that we aren’t just karma training 24/7. Although getting respect seems like a stretch in WvW

I’m glad to see us in third. Can finally train the PUGs and improve the servers skill overall. Keep up the fight everyone!

Sorry I meant for acessories. I have the Plague Rings/Tortured Root/Colusses Fang. Can’t decide what to put in them.

Just wanted to know if there is currently any way to get a Rabid set of jewels? I’ve searched endlessly and the Gw2 Database has the jewel on there (Pretty sure for sPVP) but it doesnt clarify.

I’m building a full Rabid stat set Conditionmancer. Because I can’t find them so far I thought about going for the additional healing power with Sapphires. I’m not sure if that affects siphoning though? Is anyone able to confirm?

Thanks!

zuube.5930:

dEjAhVu.4526:

Great fights with YB. Haven’t fought CD yet.

On behalf of Kaineng I’m terribly sorry that we are ruining your fun. Unfortunately no one intended this to happen. Of course we all knew it would. But when you hate your WvW community and see a server that has a VERY strong WvW community I understand the temptation and I hope the people who constantly keep bringing this dead horse back to life can realize that too.

You sound like a poster who transfer to Sanctum of Rails from higher tier back in the week of 41 October 13-20, 2012 who tried to justifiy steamrolling (when 3 very large guilds transfered at the same time to the same server) with his qq of quere times.

And I think you need to get use to that horse being reborned and beat to death.

Anywho. Looks like next week we will definitely meet the competition where we belong. So again I apologize but don’t let it bring down your morale. Keep fighting. Just rotate through the supply camps that way you all can at least get some karma/exp. And I get really annoyed when I have to retake camps lol

Getting annoyed at having to retake camps. You just defeated the whole point of your apology with that statement.

Thankfully I’ve been on Kaineng since I started this game.

Me saying I get “annoyed” when I have to retake my supply camps was simply just letting these servers know that there are still things you can accomplish. It won’t get you points to win, but it will get you fights. (Which seems to be the majority of complaints??)

I remember fighting Anvil Rock and they locked down supply camps with amounts of seige I have never seen before. That was fun.

You don’t have to attack my integrity, that’s getting you no where. Maybe using the word “annoying” wasn’t the right word to use.

I just don’t know what to say anymore. We try to be apologetic, give you all sympathy as we all know how getting steamrolled week after week feels (Rewind back to Kaineng’s T8 days). I haven’t seen the majority of Kaineng bashing the servers we steamroll so I don’t understand how you can justify complaining so much.

Go to the suggestion forum and post a suggestion of how ANet can fix this. That’s doing something proactive.

Great fights with YB. Haven’t fought CD yet.

On behalf of Kaineng I’m terribly sorry that we are ruining your fun. Unfortunately no one intended this to happen. Of course we all knew it would. But when you hate your WvW community and see a server that has a VERY strong WvW community I understand the temptation and I hope the people who constantly keep bringing this dead horse back to life can realize that too.

Anywho. Looks like next week we will definitely meet the competition where we belong. So again I apologize but don’t let it bring down your morale. Keep fighting. Just rotate through the supply camps that way you all can at least get some karma/exp. And I get really annoyed when I have to retake camps lol

Ninein.4782:

Looks like a haiku but doesn’t sound like one.

This made me laugh. Quite a bit. Thanks

Hey everyone,

I’ve recently started sPvP. Mainly do a lot of WvW but want to get more into free/paid tournaments. PM me ingame to friend me and Ill join up whenever I can.

S/D & S/P Thief

Cactus.2710:

dEjAhVu.4526:

It’s sad seeing a post like that from a server that went through the same transition Kaineng is currently expiriencing. If we had the exact same number as we did while we kept your server at bay in T8, we would not have come this far. I’m seriously sick and tired of people complaining about our numbers. How hard is it to understand that in order to compete in the tiers that we as a server are striving to get to WE NEED THE NUMBERS!!

What would you like us to do? All transfer to another server? Then ruin the balance in another tier? Unless you have some amazing suggestion to solve all this. Stop complaining.

First of all, everyone in DR knows we had a big advantage in those lower tiers because of numbers. Anyone who denies that is being foolish. That doesn’t mean that we’re not getting fed the same porridge now in spades.

But more importantly, if you go back to my original post here, I didn’t actually complain about your numbers. I simply remarked that Kaineng’s gameplay had changed from when we last faced you … you used to rely much more on tactics and skilled PvP. It’s pretty apparent now, though, even based upon the posts here from your own server mates, that at least in this matchup you’ve migrated to a zerg priority … a huge one. That makes you a more powerful opponent, but not necessarily a more respected one.

What would you realistically like us to do?

Cactus.2710:

Ashuri.1387:

AHAHAHA So much complaints about our transfers we got. Listen here, we LOST quite a few LARGE wvw guilds in Kain back when DR outnumbered us incredibly! So please shove it with the transfers. Also we didn’t get those transfers until AFTER we fought DR so hard and got out of T8 once they left us. Seriously, its like people forget that we fought so hard against DR’s numbers and kept loosing guilds because of the match up but we kept going. As I remember we never looked over the fact we clearly outnumbered our matchups. We always gave recognition to everyone we faced and didn’t boast about out winnings like others. Kain is still one of the lower populated servers, just so happens most of us love WvW. hehehe Anyway I guess Kain we better get use to hearing this BS about we suck, our zergs are easy, we only win due to the transfers blahblahblah…all we can do is continue to work hard and move up and learn in the process!! Let’s keep fighting Kain!!! We have grown so much already!!!!

Now that’s a real laugh. Even though you were significantly outmanned back when DR had numbers on you, we respected Kain as an opponent. You guys fought hard and mostly fought smart. I still came up against a few of those types last night, but mostly I just came up against raw and not very proficient numbers. I didn’t see anybody in those massive zergs having to “work hard” for anything.

I’m in no way trying to blame you for the numbers you are able to field. That’s ANet’s problem to fix. But the only way you “have grown so much already” is in numbers, pure and simple. For you to expect respect for anything more than that brings tears of mirth to my eyes. In all other aspects of WvW play you are a lesser server than when we faced you all those weeks. Your tactics are worse and your efforts are less. You are also now totally dependent upon one guild … a guild whose players (at least as far as I could tell last night) don’t even run with any of your other commanders even though [WM] has tons to spare. How sad is that?

I’m pretty sure Chaster was leading in DRBL during reset and it was the first map fully secured. WM was not commanding there.

I’d recomend you to read a few posts up about the current strategy. (That is pretty much not bothering with defending as we need something to do out there).

It’s sad seeing a post like that from a server that went through the same transition Kaineng is currently expiriencing. If we had the exact same number as we did while we kept your server at bay in T8, we would not have come this far. I’m seriously sick and tired of people complaining about our numbers. How hard is it to understand that in order to compete in the tiers that we as a server are striving to get to WE NEED THE NUMBERS!!

What would you like us to do? All transfer to another server? Then ruin the balance in another tier? Unless you have some amazing suggestion to solve all this. Stop complaining.

Shout out to DR and EB. Thanks for the fun fights in DRBL on reset. Keep up the fights!

To the EB guy who is complaining about Kaineng dancing on your corpse. News to you, every server has it. Grow a pair and get over it. Next time rather than throwing a blind complaint out give us a guild tag so maybe we can actually do something about it. (Personally I don’t get offended, why waste your energy??)

I love server transfers. I welcome ANYONE who wants to help the Kaineng communtiy evolve. If you are a server thats been hit hard with people transfering out rather than complaining about our server growing take a good long look at your community. I’m sure its not picture perfect like you might think it is. Rather than spending time complaining here about our transfers, spend that time and work on building your own community.

On another note, if your guild is here to only win and will leave at the hint of losing first place. Just leave now. Because its going to get tough the more we move up.

Cheers!

I used to roll with P/D and I really enjoyed using venoms. Caltrops I felt were useless if I ever tried using them.

With poison reducing 33% heal it greatly reduced the time of fights against classes with lots of healing ability.

Also I loved immobilize for the people who were actually half decent at dodging C&D and I didn’t have clones or anything else around to hit.

Another point was my focus on stats with P/D build was Condition Damage – Vit – Power. Having power makes the regular damage not completely useless. Initiative was NEVER an issue with this build as long as you trait 2 ini return on stealth.

Hope that helps!

I try to get rid of sb sometimes and see if I can benefit from another weapon set. I always end up back to my SB. Especially in WvWvW.

I’m not useful manning seige as I dont have enough damage mitigation as a thief. Pistol range isn’t the greatest. I always get obstructed whenever I’m defending/attacking. So that leaves me with either attacking the gate with my s/d or putting up choking gas on the wall (way more beneficial in my opinion).

Is a must have? No. When I run small groups I never use it for mobility (unless Im running away from a zerg) as I can already out run most of my teammates by auto running.

I’ve only done AC and TA. I’ve found the SB extremely useful in TA. AC I could go without it. But I doubt I’d use any other weapon set more often then I would the SB.

All classes are subject to culling issues. Thiefs get more benefit from it yes. But I like to balance out my “culling abusing” with the fact that my PC cant handle large numbers and I can never see the target anyways so half the time I’m hitting TAB and following a little red arrow above an invisible person and thats my target. Guess what though? I do completely fine. (Keep in mind this isn’t even an extra second of stealth caused by culling… this is a whole 5 minute battle where I can’t see a kitten person.)

Sorry but thiefs aren’t all that hard to kill. I get killed by more bunker d/d ele’s then I ever do from thiefs.

Think about what weapons you enjoy the most. GW2 Classes are very dynamic.

My favorite thing about this game is there are no defined “Healers/Tanks/Burst” classes. Some admittably do it better than others but I firmly believe each class is capable of those traditional roles.

Your weapon choice will probably determine the kind of build you want. I personally would never use P/P or S/D if I wanted to focus on condition damage.

So…. What weapon sets do you enjoy?

I didn’t have any issues with my thief and I wasn’t even paying attention to the stats on my gear or really the benefits of traits.

I was super squishy, but I used stealth a lot and if I ever had a group of mobs on me I would just change to shortbow and kite.

Although what Kajin suggested sounds like a great build for PVE.

I also have a necromancer and leveling him was way easier. If I ever leveled a thief again I would probably do a P/D Condition build as mobs would never really touch you because of C&D.

I could agree with this. Should it be a priority? No. Other things need to be looked at. But I do know I’ve probably missed quite a few badges from having no auto loot feature. I can live with it though.

I used to be P/D thief and I had a lot of success with full Carrion. Unless I made a mistake and missed a C&D on an opponent then I would rarely die. Sometime you miss a C&D but hopefully you have some utility to back you up incase that happens.

With C&D having a huge impact in this build I’d rather have more vitality than toughness as if you are getting hit a lot in this build I think you are doing something wrong.

My problem was having conditions on me. But trating the condition cleanse on stealth easily solved that issue.

Runes I did 3 Krait/3 Affliction but I would definitely change that to 2Krait/2Affliction/2Centaur for the longer bleed durations.

Thanks for the reply. I’ve had troubles locking down in WvW mainly because my computer is not capable of handling the large numbers very well so half the time I’m tabbing for opponents and following the red pointer as I can’t actually see anyone. Landing daze in these situations is next to impossible.

I’ll definitely try out the interrupt aspect and I love the idea about dmg absorption/health regen. I’ll let you know how it goes!

Yes I agree I would never trait condition removal with this build. Just not my playstyle but thanks for the recommendation!

Also I’ve looked into Adaneshade.2409 guide thank you for bringing that to my attention!

Great guide. Unfortunately the link for your traits isn’t working for me. Do you mind posting what they are? Thanks!

Edit: Also I was under the impression that any sigils that stack (Bloodlust, Preception, Life, Corruption etc…) Do not stack together. Why would you use both? Or is this not the case anymore…

Cheers!

Why have you decided not to use Sigil of Paralyzation as it increases the Daze time? (Unless this is also not true as I haven’t tested it myself)

Want to say thanks to Anvil Rock for great fights in their BL after reset! Haven’t had that much fun in a few weeks!

Hey everyone!

I used to be a P/D thief but it wasn’t very challenging so I thought I’d give S/D build a go and I’m absolutely loving the new dynamic. (Keep in mind this is primarily for WvWvW!)

Some questions for anyone who has more expirience with S/D. What armor combination are you using? Currently I have a mix of AC Gear with Valk and then for jewlery I have full bers. I’ve only been using it very briefly and it seems to be working well.

Also what runes and sigils are you using?

Anything a MUST have? (A specific trait, sigil, rune set… Amount of toughness vs vitality, amount of precision/crit chance..)

I’ve heard paralyzation sigil (I think?) is useful for S/D Thief’s daze. Can anyone confirm if that’s actually true?

Thanks for all the input. I’ve honestly tried searching and I don’t think a S/D thief is very popular?