Guild Wars 2

Gasoline.2570:

main hand pistol skills, they’re bad. Why? People keep complaining about stealth thiefs and whatnot but I wouldn’t even mind some nerfs on daggers if our pistol skills were improved. God theyre so bad! I don’t understand why!

The pistol bleed is short and dps is low while, say warrior, rifle bleed is long and dps higher – and it takes about the same time to fire both.. wat

Rifle warriors shoot better than rangers… go figure…
Is it wrong ?? ye.

Rangers should have warriors killshot ability also if you ask me.

I wonder where the meetings are taking this absurd numbers 15k BS ?? Really ??

15000 DMG / 2 (100% critikal DMG) = 7500 / 1,25(25% increase DMG Thief traits) = 6000 DMG * 2500 (target armor) = 15m / 2,4 (BS coe) / 981 (Dagger DMG) = 6371 POWER !! vs 1500 target armor = 3822 POWER !!
—————-

please check here for yourself.. pictures and videos of even higher numbers
against warriors and engineers… its not even light armors…
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Thief-Backstab-Picture/first

So obviously the meetings are taking place at A-net balance room, and they accept it.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Paper-Rock-Scissors

Mesmers beats Thieves, Thieves beats Warrior, and Warrior…um…you get the idea.

One warrior build that I hated was a Mace+Shield / Hammer….never tasted dirt that much before. I still beat him but it was humiliating.

[EDIT for clarity]

thieves beat warriors… …
you know you have this whole Paper-Rock-Scissors wrong ?

its: Boromir kills Gollum… Gollum kills Gandalf… Gandalf kills Boromir.
Heavy kills leather… leather kills light… light kills heavy.

lightning bolt on metal… bzzzzzz fun stuff.

Wharrgarbl.9263:

eldain stenlund.4306:

I have never said i want warriors to be able to have more burst…

But you say thieves burst is OP. Thieves have a marginally better burst than warr; it isnt really much higher.

eldain stenlund.4306:

Do i want my heavy armor to actually be WORKING as a heavy armor. yes.

Heavy armor gives +200 armor over medium. Thats 200 stat points, or 20/30 trait points. Its quite a bit! Also, those are “free”. Of course, if you go full berserk, any class with soldiers or knights gear is gonna have more armor than you. But thats because you CHOSE to go glass cannon.

Having a berserker warr with more armor than a knights thief would be stupid; think about it, why would ANYONE use anything thats not berserker then?

eldain stenlund.4306:

Do i want to see a fix to thieves op stealth and backstabs. yes.

Thieves backstab is not that OP. My glass cannon guardian can teleport into a group of (non skilled) non-bunker players and drop them all in the time a thief drops one.
I downed 3-4 persons in under 2 seconds more than once!
Just save yourselves, focus 5, sword 2, f1, weapon swap, gs 2 (4 if they dodge, then 5-5-3 ). Thats pretty much it, if anyones still standing just judge to him and finish.
Of course, this does not work against skilled players, but then again, BS spam doesnt either (i.e: thief vs guard… backstab is blocked by aegis, everyone dodges / blinds, if thief got caught by gs5 or doesnt run away hes instagibbed.

the 100crap doing marginaly the same burst as a thief ??
umm it have a 40 second internal CD on frenzy.. and a nother 40 second CD to get the stun you need to actually hit anything.

And when you face a warrior using a GS, you know he is going to try it, because you can see him from the start.

This still doesnt justify 100crap skill to have the burst.

Its kinda much harder to see an invisible thief…

sorry.. my warrior doesnt have Aegis to autoblock the first stealth attack.
nor do i have protection, or much other boons either but might.

and about the armor… once again… doesnt matter if you call it zerker or knight…
metal is metal… leather is leather…
heavy is heavy… light is light…

GW2 is about singularity.
kill them faster than they can kill you.

and its a bad way to follow.

Lokki.1092:

I never said anything about no stealth… I said less burst damage, more DPS.

you said you didn’t even play your thief because of all the nerfs. well they will keep coming as long as thieves are posting 15k+ backstabs. If you don’t believe its possible with screenshot and video evidence then I cant do anything about that.

You complain about being a one trick pony then complain at the idea of not being a one trick pony… Don’t know what to tell you.

People hate Thieves because of the above video,
Thieves get nerfed because of the above video.
Easily fixable.

I know my mythology…
And loki never tell the truth to people… unless the truth hurt more…

please continue =)

Black Teagan.9215:

Lokki.1092:

Actually they can. Here is a great video showing what damage a thief can do.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJTJOB0DXTo

The 3 attacks (usually with a proc) can land within 1 second. This is generally too fast for a person to react to giving the feeling of a 1 shot, or dead before I can fight back.

1/3 of the classes in the game have a base 10k health, and getting over 18k health is not only tough for them but harmful to any other stats. But would that matter?

This thief is dealing 26k damage in less time than is reasonable to think someone can react to. this is on top of the fact that generally when you encounter a thief you are already engaged or otherwise in a position not in your favor, while completely in their favor.

So it can be done.

often? Not at all. But they don’t see that they see I got one shot by that thief again! RAGE!

DMG Values is actually the only thing what the most player interest, without wasting even a thought to the defense.
So its normal that a glasscannon thief killed ONE light amored glassconnon Ele, where is the problem?

Dont you understand the logic behind SINGLETARGET weapons, the thief and the disadvantages of using gc builds.

There is no point in getting fully tanked as warrior. they cant tank anyways.
what happens is:
you kitten your dmg considerably, but still die horribly fast.

Gw2 is not using trinity… its using singularity.
“kill them faster than they kill you”.

And that is a realy bad way to walk.

cerberus.1937:

@ eldain stenlund.4306
im sure you heard lp2 a lot but since no top players are running thief and ones that are are getting owned by the others that is ex your issue. Look at the top leaderboards you will find ele, Mesmer, necro, guard, engi, and ranger. You will not find any even just ok players getting one shotted no matter what. If you want to count a match between top tier thief and new war running full zerker then sure with 25 stacks of might and 25 stacks of vunerable on war and a few other factors you might get close to an instant kill but still not a good argument.

Iam talking about 1 hitting ANY class should not be allowed.
Its just that i got insta killed at 12 k hp, no chanse to react what so ever, while i used 2.5 k heavy armor… it realy got me to react.
I have been 3 hitted when using more armor and more hp, but only thought it was a fluke…
guess not, since i see this in wvw all time when i realy looked at it.

thieves need to be reworked or balanced or what ever you want to call it.

cerberus.1937:

if people wanted sustain and no stealth they would roll war or ranger stop making thief into your class

so what you say, should justify 1 hitting ability on an invisible class ??

Wharrgarbl.9263:

I don’t understand OP. Would you please clarify?

1- You want warr doing more burst than thief (or at least the same), since warrior already has more DPS than thief.

2- You want a glass cannon warr to have more toughness/armor than defensive specced thief (untraited and with the same prefix/socket armor warr already has more armor)

Are those correct? Then, why would ANYONE play thief? Warr has god tier life (vs bottom tier on thief), has more DPS, more party utility, and more life. You ALSO want even more armor and more burst?

I have never said i want warriors to be able to have more burst…

I personaly think (and many with me, i bet you included).. find 100 blade op.
besides that, i find it a crap skill, since you become stationary in a shifting moving surrounding… not very good planed skill. replace it with something usefull.

Do i want my heavy armor to actually be WORKING as a heavy armor. yes.

Do i want to see a fix to thieves op stealth and backstabs. yes.

TheOneNOnlyGeneralBama.9586:

About a day ago i was running around WvW on my 30k hp retal engie and i went against an Hammer / AxeShield warrior , i figured it’d be the typical tryhard whacky warrior im used to , but this guy meant business. So with the help of me underestimating him and the use of Berserker stance he chain CCed me to hell , i literally couldnt do anything..he used every CC you can name in rapid succession to get me down to 50%…so i popped a heal finally and tried to immobolize him , then knock him down..all of it rolled off him with 0.5 durations…he adrenalined again and proceeded to repeat this same combo..and succeeded. Mind you he was on 80% hp and i literally ate 12 CCs from him , and i was on 50% hp with no heal up. I used Supply Crate , he proceeded to destroy the turrets like any smart player would do(eventually giving up cause i was picking him off from a distance) , so it allowed me to rip him for a few 600-1000 shots , he popped heal and started to go for his chain CC combo , the Earthshaker and shield bash missed and i LOSed him with a few caltrops and my turrets shooting through wall , i pulled him in prybared KDed with a few more spouts of fire from my turret he downed. He rage logged , i dont blame him though because with that much CC he used on me with 85% success and i still lived (with perma protection + retal) , now that was a real LOL moment. I’ve seen vids of ppl getting 2 shotted with such combos lol.

you cant have much dmg on your engi with that hp.
must have taken some good time to kill that warrior.

nahj.2870:

A thief that traits/gears for pure defense will have higher armor than a warrior that traits/gears for pure offense.

A thief that traits/gears for pure offense will have lower armor than a warrior that traits/gears for pure offense.

Meanwhile, a warrior that traits/gears for pure defense will have higher armor than a thief that traits/gears for pure defense, due to the innate bonus from heavy armor.

It’s not a difficult concept to grasp. You’re attempting to apply RP/classic trinity rules to a system that prioritizes player choice over predetermined class roles, or at least tries to. A player that chooses to gear themselves defensively should have higher defensive stats than a player that chooses to gear offensively, regardless of armor class.

wich in turn makes armor classes useless to have overall.

just give us all.. “armor”.

They hate trinity.. dps – healing – tank speciality.
And yet they have classes to fullfill those criterias…

And since they dont want trinity, but still balance for it…
The game gets imbalanced. (pretty logical).

And the result is people gets kitten ed of.

A-net should realy make up their mind.

Heavy armor vs light armor or even medium.
heavy armor should always win in naturaly higher defense..
no matter how you gear the other two.
This is pure logic… trinity or not.

loseridoit.2756:

eldain stenlund.4306:

I already have another thread about this: thief dmg.. realy..

But a short answear.
I doesnt realy matter how you play your warrior against thieves these days.
If the thief is moderately good. you stand no chanse.

seriously i killed lots of thieves with a warrior

it really depends on the build.

you mean it depends on if the thief is good or bad…

if its a good thief.. he will toy with you.. no matter how good you are.

Evilek.5690:

eldain stenlund.4306:

Evilek.5690:

eldain stenlund.4306:

Daecollo.9578:

eldain stenlund.4306:

Zacchary.6183:

There is counter to 12-28k backstabs…. called moving.

you have to see the thief first…
And you have to hope they dont have their shadowstep…

And you think its fair to have what you say… 28 k invisible stab openings ???

Thief wouldn’t waste there escape tool to attack you.

The damage is only 814, that isn’t very much if you stack a lot of toughness.

If you never want to be 1 shot by anything, get runes of the svanir+become invincible at 25% life.

if you really hate thieves, play guardian and faceroll protection, damage reduction.

and your on with this thoughness again…

it doesnt help.. i have already tried that.. and other people have had even more thoughness and vitality than me.. and still died in seconds.

Either thieves have a bug on their stab skill, bypassing armors.
or
Armors have a very early and very strong diminishing return.
Wich makes you think that 3.5 k armor sounds alot, but might in reality be worth schit.

or it could be both…

or maybe iam just very very unlucky to face very lucky high critting thieves ??
(strange tho since other also report the same thing as i do)…

Damage done = (weapon damage) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (target’s Armor)
Enemy 2000 Power weapon damage 1010 skill coe 1.
2000×1010×1=2020000/your armor
Your armor x Enemy dmg
1000 × 2020
1200 × 1683
1400 × 1442
1600 × 1262
1800 × 1122
2000 × 1010
2200 × 918
Armor=Power when the weapon skill coefficient is “1”.
When someone attack you with 2,000 power and your armor is 2,000, => enemy power is 0

Toughness is very powerfull atribut.
Vit+Toughness > power,crit dmg

I usualy have 2.5 k armor.
And iam using the heavy armor since iam a warrior.

Thieves can have more than me…

Logic just got lost…

Me Thief 2650 armor,you have 2500 with heavy armor = you are glass cannon,this is only your fail

I should naturaly have higher armor no matter how you gear…
I have heavy metal. you have light leather.
you shouldnt even come close to begin with.

But in GW2. thieves have more armor that warriors or guardians…
the stupidity of these designers is awesome.

ye… l2p comment again… hello.

Evilek.5690:

Nice story bro. I see warrior with single 100b kill 3 peoplem. OP ? Nope ,only noobs enemy.

100 blade is a crap skill. and should be replaced.

Evilek.5690:

eldain stenlund.4306:

Daecollo.9578:

eldain stenlund.4306:

Zacchary.6183:

There is counter to 12-28k backstabs…. called moving.

you have to see the thief first…
And you have to hope they dont have their shadowstep…

And you think its fair to have what you say… 28 k invisible stab openings ???

Thief wouldn’t waste there escape tool to attack you.

The damage is only 814, that isn’t very much if you stack a lot of toughness.

If you never want to be 1 shot by anything, get runes of the svanir+become invincible at 25% life.

if you really hate thieves, play guardian and faceroll protection, damage reduction.

and your on with this thoughness again…

it doesnt help.. i have already tried that.. and other people have had even more thoughness and vitality than me.. and still died in seconds.

Either thieves have a bug on their stab skill, bypassing armors.
or
Armors have a very early and very strong diminishing return.
Wich makes you think that 3.5 k armor sounds alot, but might in reality be worth schit.

or it could be both…

or maybe iam just very very unlucky to face very lucky high critting thieves ??
(strange tho since other also report the same thing as i do)…

Damage done = (weapon damage) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (target’s Armor)
Enemy 2000 Power weapon damage 1010 skill coe 1.
2000×1010×1=2020000/your armor
Your armor x Enemy dmg
1000 × 2020
1200 × 1683
1400 × 1442
1600 × 1262
1800 × 1122
2000 × 1010
2200 × 918
Armor=Power when the weapon skill coefficient is “1”.
When someone attack you with 2,000 power and your armor is 2,000, => enemy power is 0

Toughness is very powerfull atribut.
Vit+Toughness > power,crit dmg

I usualy have 2.5 k armor.
And iam using the heavy armor since iam a warrior.

Thieves can have more than me…

Logic just got lost…

I never had any survival problem in pve on wow. while i played my rogue.
not dps or survival. its pve…

Rogues in wow was more of a warrior in leather.
we were fighthing visible.. we opened in stealth to get abit head start.
But after that we had to go face to face and use our other tools.

We only had 1 stealth escape if things went realy bad. vanish.. on a long cooldown.
(1.5 – 2 min).
and still a bleeding or a dot or any kind of aoe, took us out of stealth also.

the question is: Why doesnt A-net learn from wow or other games.

the resilience was a realy big nerf for the rogue in wow. since they are the class that was made for critical burst dmg.
And still, rogues was fine.
we just had to learn how to play against these harder armors.

Vitality and thoughness doesnt work in GW2…
so what is needed then ??
(it might have slight effect if you sacrifice everything for vitality and thoughness)

I see 3 ways to get thieves in line with others.
*Either you put in a new stat to gears, similar to resilience. (good and bad).
*Give more armor to all classes. will help survive both pve and pvp…
*Nerf thief dmg as they have now… (will mostly result in a long bad consequense).

best of 3 bad things is the resilience.
something that takes away abit of the burst skill dmg… just make sure you classify the backstab and killshot or any super high crit dmg into “burst skill”. so it gets affected by the resiliense.

Daecollo.9578:

eldain stenlund.4306:

Zacchary.6183:

There is counter to 12-28k backstabs…. called moving.

you have to see the thief first…
And you have to hope they dont have their shadowstep…

And you think its fair to have what you say… 28 k invisible stab openings ???

Thief wouldn’t waste there escape tool to attack you.

The damage is only 814, that isn’t very much if you stack a lot of toughness.

If you never want to be 1 shot by anything, get runes of the svanir+become invincible at 25% life.

if you really hate thieves, play guardian and faceroll protection, damage reduction.

and your on with this thoughness again…

it doesnt help.. i have already tried that.. and other people have had even more thoughness and vitality than me.. and still died in seconds.

Either thieves have a bug on their stab skill, bypassing armors.
or
Armors have a very early and very strong diminishing return.
Wich makes you think that 3.5 k armor sounds alot, but might in reality be worth schit.

or it could be both…

or maybe iam just very very unlucky to face very lucky high critting thieves ??
(strange tho since other also report the same thing as i do)…

I had a thief player in my guild.. a very good one.

He totaly amazed me one day in wvw.

I was running in the zerg with my warrior.
We were at the top of the ogre camp, and we saw an enemy far far far far down
at the bottom.. running away from us.

What happend next was just realy totaly insane.

Our thief, actually downed and kill that runner in less than 3 seconds…
I couldnt belive what i just saw… i was laughing so hard… it couldnt be true.

From top of the ogre hill camp (with the ogre npcs)…
and swooosh… the thief jumped and shadowstepped and what not.
to catch this runner… about 900-1200 range from the supply camp npcs…
its about that range from the npcs.. as i could shoot at them with my rifle when i finaly got down there… still laughing…

Now, this is a realy far distance.
and it took like 3 seconds to get down there and insta kill that poor runner.

Insane ??? totaly.

bobross.5034:

eldain stenlund.4306:

Evilek.5690:

The difference is that they had a stealth for 3-4 sec with trait and in wow infinity.

I whouldnt mind thieves having infinite stealth.
If they nerf their insane burst, and give classes ways to reveal it, and reduced their movement speed in stealth.

But if thieves have infinite stealth.. they should only have 1 skill to vanish, with CD…

Right now. stealth is supreeme king in pvp.. wvw. untouchable.

supreme king in pvp? There are virtually no stealth based thieves in high level pvp because you can’t cap/contest a point while stealthed. There are a few people in tpvp playing thieves using a very difficult to master, evasion based build. For the most part, in tPvP thieves are almost as useless as warriors. maybe you encountered some stealthy thieves in hotjoin, but it really is not as useful a build as almost any other in that setting.

So because they might be harder to play in Tourney pvp, they should get even stronger opening bursts ??

What they need to do is remove the difference from wvw and Tourney pvp.
Use your own gear…

or maybe if they feel thieves are Low in pve..
Maybe they should make a special Pve room also… just like tpvp have the mist.

Balancing isnt very hard to do… it just takes abit time and alot of nerves…
Because you have to set up 1 class vs another.. with maximum gear.
See what numbers you get… adjust it untill you feel its alright to use in an online setting.

Giving 1 class supreeme stealth.. Wich nothing can break or detect thru.
and also giving them insane opening burst dmg, so they are able to REALY 1 hit
other players, we have numbers, pitcures and videos showing this is true…
and then still say: l2p.

Its better to reduce thieves stealthyness, and give them more durability, and aswell tone down their dmg. give them other tools than just stealths.

you have to be braindead to not see that something is wrong…

Zacchary.6183:

There is counter to 12-28k backstabs…. called moving.

you have to see the thief first…
And you have to hope they dont have their shadowstep…

And you think its fair to have what you say… 28 k invisible stab openings ???

cerberus.1937:

SO basically all I hearing is I hate thief because they can do something I cant this is just sad and fyi there is no initiave rune sigil nothing. Thieves need stealth to do stealth attacks that’s the way devs made them don’t hear me complaining about mesmers clones invulnerable morph conditions ect, guards constant blocks, necros multiple life bars, wars ability to roll anything in pve while just standing there the list goes on and on. So I guess if they gave thieves spammable clones blocks ex life and heal we wouldn’t need stealth would we but we wouldn’t be thieves we would be lame copies of your classes. Try being honest with yourself how many people couldn’t kill a thief if they saw you coming from far away and you were running ber build w/o stealth. Don’t complain about something that isn’t broken.

????

Please use line breakers.

Its easier to read then, and doesnt just look like a wall of ????

Lokki.1092:

Like I said it comes down to a simple issue. The archetype of thief, rogue, assassin, sniper is one that does not revel in fighting fair. These classes do not challenge their opponent openly with honor. No they take the smart path and kill you when you are at your weakest, most vulnerable and then loot your corpse/collect on the contract.

This is fun gamplay for the player, but it is not so fun to play against. That is why these classes are universally hated in multiplayer games.

The Guild Wars 2 thief still has the ability to kill a target without them being able to fight back. People don’t care if it’s hard to do, uncommon, or in one aspect of the game the 15 fights you lost to a warrior that you could only get to half life doesn’t stick out as much as the one time a thief jumped you and you were dead before you could push a button.

Perceptions are key to the hate, and perceptions say that thief classes are cowardly, cheap, and ultimately OP… Which as an archetype is true. An assassin would and could kill any other archetype ever because they never fight fair poisoning food, attacking a sleeping opponent and so on, and a good assassin would never ever challenge someone to a duel or fight openly. However this has to be translated well in a game to make the assassin feel like an assassin, but not make the opponents feel like they have no chance against said assassin.

Most games scale back the opening burst, add more dps and give thief classes more thief like skills to increase out of stealth survivability. Smoke bombs, flash grenades, blinding powder, tendon rupturing, sap weapons, and all manner of other utility and skills that disable an opponent while you kill them. What this accomplishes is your thief still feels like a thief and has the same overall damage, but opponents can actually fight back making them feel like the thief isn’t cheap and OP. It also means that thieves get to have good PvE damage because they actually have more DPS than the one trick pony opening attack, and their sustained damage is now on par with the other classes.

I’ve seen the launch, nerf, nerf, nerf, nerf, buff, nerf, fix of thief classes for over a decade now over many games and it still baffles me that developers still put in the assassin 1 hit quitter classes at all in MMOs. People don’t like them and they get changed every time I don’t get why they go through all that and not just make them the accepted way from the beginning.

wait what… your telling A-net they are doing something wrong with their game and balancing ???

Ohh man, your in trouble now.

doesnt matter that what you say realy is true…
they still ignore you… its their game.. so they must know whats best… right ?

Iam not saying everything i say is perfect.
what i say over and over to people, is that something is very wrong in the balance of this game, allowing some people to 1 hit others.. while others cant even get half that dmg…

bobross.5034:

the thing about thieves in general is it’s hard to build an effective tank. Damage without traiting and gear is just not impressive at all. The only way to really do this is a condition build, and most people agree that they’re gimmicky and not as good on thief as on other classes.

So building for survivability with gear doesn’t really work, but the thief’s strength is stealth. the first second or two of stealth, the thief is still vulnerable, but if they keep moving and dont get ccd they’re safe. Thieves also have good burst damage. The combination sets up the berserker thief playstyle. The goal is to use stealth for survivability and to aim for spending as little time out of stealth as possible. To do this, and still win fights, you need to down people quickly, which requires a high damage build. So you try to down people, stealth, wait down someone again…etc. And thats why berserker thieves are actually quite survivable.

The downside of course is that tanky thieves aren’t really an option, as everything seems to be balanced with berserker thieves in mind.

everything is balanced against zerker thieves ???

tell that to my guild ppl that get 1 hitted from stealth… yep.. good balance.

Kolly.9872:

eldain stenlund.4306:

How can you justify a light armor class having the same armor defense as one using heavy armor… ??

a thief having the same armor of a warrior will surely end in the warrior having a much higher damage of the thief.
I hope I don’t have to explain to you that a thief will sacrifice a lot of damage for thoughtness, do I?
By the way if you prefer games where healers could save your butt while you just was smashing buttons and dealing damage, well it’s plenty of those game out there. GW2 is different, l2p or leave.

I never played pvp with healers.
but the games i played was more balanced. and armors worked as they should.

Evilek

“Have you ever seen a knight in heavy armor should run, or even do somersaults? I do not.”

doing flips and stunts… to avoid a knife ?? why should they. you wont penetrate their armor anyways.

If you wanted to kill a knight, you had to use a heavy crossbow. (easiest, least risk).

But the fun part… when they realised crossbows could penetrate and kill.
they made thicker armors..
Some armors could even withstand the early rifles and guns……

and you want to flipp around for a knife ???

Deathspike.1870:

Nerf damage builds! Make it so everyone is running a bunker and nobody can kill one another without overwhelming numbers! Yeah, that’d be such an amazing fun game!

Yes, sarcasm.

seem to work for wow with pvp gear.

pvp people are a hell of a lot harder to kill.
And still they pose a realy threat in dmg.

Wow have different armor classes. and it works just fine.
cloth staying at low armor.. heavy staying at high armor.
they can never reach eachother, no matter how you gear.
And yet its working just fine…

and iam not mentioning a pocket healer.
Most of the time you run solo. (its more fun, and takes more skills).

Wow have been out for many years now…
Iam surpriced A-net havent learned anything from it.

Yocairo.4257:

I…don’t even. Eldain, you didn’t disprove my point, you proved it. I too mained a rogue, they have been OP since vanilla. It is very easy to identify a bad rogue, just like it is with thieves. The bad rogues would pop all their cd’s and prep in the start and fall like a brick right after.

You claim rogues were balanced, well my friend rogues have been one shotting players since the beginning of wow, and yes this is literal. Ambush was the fotm in vanilla to gank. In tbc they remained top tier. In wotlk they got dumbed down with mutilate. In Cata it was a giant joke with vial critting for 80k and killing people in the first 2 seconds of cheap shot. Warrior’s were the fotm end season because they scale well with gear. DK’s have been the most skilless class around, S5 dk’s that got glad were often worse than 1200 rated other classes.

Alright back to GW2. I fully agree the combo backstab>stealth>repeat is OP. It’s annoying as hell, even for me. It would be simple to shift away from this by nerfing zerker gear altogether, it’s just OP. People shouldn’t be penalized for running with some vit and toughness.
But that being said, a large part is still skill based, namely avoiding the backstabs in the first place and knowing how thieves think!

Also, the backstab thief is a one pony trick, and that is roaming. They will never ever be able to kill you in groups! they can down you at most. You don’t hear me whining 4 warrior+1 mesmer is the current meta in pve. Because yes, in pve warrior is S-tier!

I did some serious opening dmg in wow as pvp rogue.. true. but after the opening.. i had to face my opponents on their terms…

But if you remember, the good ones was using pvp gear… (logical).
And that gear nerfed our dmg alot… and i dont mind that it did.
they sacrificed abit dmg.. (not much). to get pvp focused. as it should.

We can not get pvp geared in GW2… with out nerfing our dmg to rock bottom at the same time… and if we do that, we pose no threat against anything, not even a critter.

This mmorpg may be A-nets first big game.
But seriously… dont they think ahead ??

“buff thief dmg more”.
“but, thieves can already 1 hit light armor from invisibility”.
“buff more”…
“should we increase the armor on everyone also to compensate for this pve buff ??”
“no, just buff more dmg”.

I dont see how they can have a problem on balancing pve and pvp.
some say its impossible… i say its realy easy.

you balance for pvp first.
every skill, dmg, armor… everything. untill you see the dmg you want.
and THEN you addjust the settings in pve.

Some classes only get buffs and buffs and buffs… creating massive imbalance
where some classes have ability to 1 hit others, while others cant do half that dmg.

not having trinity, is only giving a-net a hell of a lot more impossibleness (nice word).
to balance everything… and it will eventually sink this game…
How can you justify a light armor class having the same armor defense as one using heavy armor… ??
How can you justify my 1 handed weapon doing more dmg than my Great sword…??

having an E-sport… with no trinity… totaly imbalanced classes…
ye, good luck with that.

Kolly.9872:

Man quit the game please because obviously this is not the game for you or just you can go out there with a thief and try to kill a lvl 80 warrior that actually uses some brain… then come here and ask for a warrior nerf!!!
This is not the game where warriors can tank better than any other class and at the same time outdps every other class while standing right in the same place for the Whole fight, having a dedicated healer covering their butts.

Exactly what you say here…
“This is not the game where warriors can tank better than any other class”

So why do we even have heavy armor.. if there is no difference…

Elthurien.8356:

How does a warrior get 20k vitality. You seriously need some Pvt gear if you want to compete in WvW. My Thief has 23k health, 3k armour and 2.2k power when I’m running Pvt. You’re obviously not running any vitality gear and not enough toughness for WvW. You deserve to get nuked by a glass cannon.

once again… we have a zombie…

I used to run 24 k hp and about 2.8 k armor. (i wanted to have atleast some dmg left).
what happend ?? i got 3 hitted by a thief…

vitality + thoughness doesnt help for schit…
but since your a zombie… you dont understand that…

and once again you have proven to us with your stats that having heavy armor doesnt count for schit either…

You have more armor than me… with your thief… than my warrior in heavy armor…
is it me.. or is something very very wrong here…

Heavy armor should always have more defense than light…
no matter how much thoughness or vitality you get on light.
you know.. metal vs leather/cloth……. metal always win.

OR have you seen spaceships made of whool or leather ???

But, we will never see any change to armor or thieves.
unless A-net starts to play other classes than thieves and mesmers…
wich they wont.

Evilek.5690:

The difference is that they had a stealth for 3-4 sec with trait and in wow infinity.

I whouldnt mind thieves having infinite stealth.
If they nerf their insane burst, and give classes ways to reveal it, and reduced their movement speed in stealth.

But if thieves have infinite stealth.. they should only have 1 skill to vanish, with CD…

Right now. stealth is supreeme king in pvp.. wvw. untouchable.

Kyrion.2749:

Ok, Thiefy hit hard a couple of times… Soooo what? It’s not that other classes can’t hit that hard (or even higher).

Should I post some screenshots of Warry’s killshots or Mesmy’s shatters to make you feel better? Any class can spec to ‘overload’ a given skill to hit for ridiculous amounts of damage.

So what’s your point? That you specced to get high backstabs and you got -gasp- high backstabs?

Your attack is INVISIBLE… whats so hard to understand ???

You know.. people can NOT see you anymore… your gone… your not there…
There is no way to counter… its… not… visible…

Kill shot IS VISIBLE… Stationary… requires 3 stack adrenaline.

Iam starting to think we have a zombie appocalypse…
some ppl seem totaly braindead…

Rogue in WoW has spell imune shadow cloak,vanish=insta stealth and breake all ground control(frost nova roots etc.) cheap shot 4 sec stun,kidney shot 6 sec stun, gouge incapaticating 4 sec,blind 10 sec. And the same hp as other class

Exactly… we had all those skills.. and we needed to use them all.
not just one.. but ALL.

And still we were balanced in pvp.

If you say we had all those skills and didnt need them,
then you cant have played against very good enemies.. or perhaps you just sneaked around in stealth.. waiting for a last hit shadowstep kill and do a kill steal…

Warriors had shouts that revealed us, bleedings, stomps… heavy armor…
Mages had AoE, and blinks + frostnovas and pets.
Paladins had AoE, stuns, DoTs.
and on and on it goes…

MANY MANY skills that was made. each class had a few of their own to reveal the rogue.
in GW2.. thieves invisiblity is supreeme. there is no way to reveal them…
(combined with their stupidly op dmg).

Yocairo.4257:

What also cracks me up is that he is asking for extra armor “because real life”. I’d be fine with that if you moved at 25% speed of other classes!

I was gonna comment and show how it was IRL…
But, your a thief.. so i wont bother… you wont listen anyways.

Lmfao @ your level of Toughness, my balanced Thief build has more than that!

You’re a glass cannon Warrior who got burst down by a glass cannon Thief. Only thing I can say is L2P.

I have ppl saying they die in 2 – 3 hits from thieves.
using a tank build. 25 k hp and 3k minimum armor. (some even higher).
(I had close to those stats, and i hgot 3 hitted)…

There is no point in going tank on warrior.
If you do, you have no dmg. and you still die in seconds.

But i guess your main character is a thief. so you will never understand.

Its funny how ppl can call a class with heaviest armor in game, glass cannon.

Yocairo.4257:

I’m sorry but I couldn’t hold my laughter. It is very obvious this guy is a former wow player, trying to apply those mechanics in gw2. I imagine him as a backpedaling, greatsword swinging zerker himself. He most likely played a roflstorm warrior. He’s clearly kitten because a “Rouge” as he’d call it, trolled him and he’s yet to improve as a warrior to /laugh and kill that Thief the moment he unstealths.

“Yuo guise pl0x stop hitting me in teh back cuz I no turn so fast with me keyboard”

I’ve played wow for 5 years at least and rogues were always OP, yes I mained one for a long time as well. They had a low skill entry and high skill cap. Hell be glad thieves aren’t the evasion, CloS ing, vanishing, prepping, immortal things rogues were.

The thief community did it’s thing once more, pick out the bad apple. If people have such a problem vs BS thieves, why not test and improve instead of yelling every thief is OP. I am a thief, and I can avoid backstabs 50% of the time.

What also cracks me up is that he is asking for extra armor “because real life”. I’d be fine with that if you moved at 25% speed of other classes!

Actually.. my main in wow was Rogue. raids and pvp.
after that it was mage + warrior + dk + pally + hunter. depending if the guild needed something special for special encounters in raids.
but my main was rogue, wich i played 80-90 % of the time.

I had pretty good gear on my rogue. 1 step from legendary upgraded daggers in cata.
just to give you a hint.

I could kill every class in wow in pvp.
and i did have burst dmg. as i played backstabb build. (sub).
BUT, the most important thing. i could never every. 1 hit anyone.
not even the cloth users. (unless they were low lvl and very low gear, pointless).

But plate users. paladin, deathknight, warriors.
Those armors was realy hard to penetrate.
And you realy had to use ALL of your skill and trinkets to kill them if they had good gear and was skilled. 1 – 2 misstakes from my side.. and i died.
But the important thing.. it took time to kill them.

And i could never reset the fight as many times as thieves does in GW2.
wich is just stupidly op.

here.. in GW2.. thieves do like 18 k stabs on warriors and guardians.. or even higher.
80 – 90 % hp in 1 stab ??
Combined with limitless stealth ability, and dont have to worry about anyone or anything to reveal them… dots not working… dmg not working…AoE not working…

so yes, thieves are massively overpowered in GW2.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Backstab

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Triple_Chop

Okay click the links, look at the base damages, which one is higher? Now think about it a moment, which one is a spammable autoattack? and which one requires stealth (either another attack like cnd, or multiple attacks bps+hs) or a long cd utillity, AND requires position behind an enemy.

Have you see the other tread you have in your own forum…
About the dmg a thief can do ??
There are vids and pictures.. clearly showing how stupidly op the dmg is.
people bragging how they have done 18 k.. 19 k.. a rumor of even 35 k.
tho i belive the 35 k is under maximum debuffs and buffs effect.

Thats from 1 attack… from stealth… wich you can not see.
thieves clearly doesnt need a nerf…

The second best part: its a thief that have made it…

THE best part. A-net is ignoring it… and probably instead have more buffs incoming as usual…

A-net is close to become like Age of Conan.
Imbalanced as hell, and forcing people leave.

Travlane.5948:

not splitting hairs but that chair is around 4mm or more thick. :P pretty sturdy.

@ ELDAIN STENLUND …… tell u what…if u wanna have only 1 weapon set then ill say ur right. but until then u have just as much skills as us to use if not more. we only have one weapon set ….or rather one set of skills to use bc both sets use the same cooldown aka intitiative system. so when we “spam” a skill 2 or 3 or even 4 x in a row….sometimes 5 if we have init regen or gain up, then we are out of initiative and out of skills. so we spam something 5 x then it takes 15-16 secs to repeat that same exact spam set. for a warrior…. u can use skill 1 2 3 4 5 then swap then 1 2 3 kitten in the same time you have 10 skills spammed vs our 5 before you ahve to wait to use mroe….but the best thing about warrior is soon as the next 8 secs are up you can do it all over again! so where we wait 15 or 16 secs for a refill u just swap after 8 and all ur attacks are up again. not to mention your 20% cooldowns and -1 sec weaponswap option plus another -1 on sigil if u choose. so yeah thieves come up way short when it comes to spamming skills ya?

Iam not sure… but i think i have to be alive to have a chanse to use my skills ??
And when i played more tanky.. i got 3 hitted… 2 – 3 seconds fight.. max…

its realy true.. and made me seriosuly kitten ed off. (why iam here).
I dropped my dps abit to get more tanky.. 24 k hp.. using axe + mace /+ hammer.
i also had like 2.8 k armor…
I got 3 hitted still… yep… realy balanced game.

they could just rename the warrior class to: “Armored Critter”.

i read on some tread.. a thief had like 3.1 k armor…
seriously… wtf is wrong with A-net and the designers.

Leather armor are harder than plate ??? since when ??

iam starting to wonder they the hell there are other classes in this game than thief and mesmer..

Its so clear these 2 classes are the favourite of A-net.

there are these classes in the game also… but they are busy using op classes to gank.
Engineers,
Necromansers,
Rangers,
Warriors,
Guardians,
Elementalist.

ok… fun tread.. and just shows what i have in another…

Thieves need a massive nerf..
Or armors need a very big buff in natural resists.

and also explains why i died on my warrior before i even saw what happened.
“iam running in wvw… i see my ppl on map at a tower, i run towards it…
2 – 3 seconds later…iam watching wich respawn point i want”…

Great.. i just got 3 hitted by a thief…

Ghostwolf.9863:

I was on my bunker thief once, 19k hp, I had stunbreaker on cooldown.
Then suddenly I hear the warrior charge sound behind me, I get knocked down,
the warrior pressed 1 button (hundred blades) and I died, wtf???

Warrior damage really??? with those knockdowns -_____________-

Could happen to someone finishing off a mesmer too if he ignores the warrior.

yes, its very fair and makes total sense…
comparing our internal 40 second cooldown we have on frenzy + 40 second cd bullcharge… against… something a thief can spam…

edit: forgot… when a warrior charge in to use 100crap skill.
He will be stuck in there, and have a hard time to get out…
You playing a thief can get in there, kill/down one in 2 seconds spamming one skill,
and if things get heated… you simply shadowstep away, or leap, or stealth.

yep, you are clearly right.. thieves need much more dmg to compensate.
and warriors need to run around naked… and forbid GS + bullcharge in combination.

Dont you see that something is realy very totaly wrong with how A-net balancing things ?
I dont like 100crap either, i think its a bullkitten skill.
Stationary crap in a constantly shifting surrounding. doesnt make any sense realy.

and no, i dont want it mobile and still have the dmg it does.
i dont want the skill at all. (why i never use GS anymore).

Deathspike.1870:

eldain stenlund.4306:

If you want a similar test.. just take a 2 mm thick metal sheet… then take a knife.. and stabb away all you like.. you never gonna hurt the metal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K31n2tj7Qi8

You were saying?

funny vid. but thats a katana sword… and the chair is likely 1 mm max if even that.
hope you have a vid of a 2 – 3 mm metal video.
good luck i say.

2mm is the lightest metal armors. (normal for chest plate for richer foot soldier).
the heavy metal armors were 2 – 3 mm. (standard armors for knights).
and when Gunpowder came. some used even up to 5 – 6 mm…

If you want proof of effectiveness of metal armors.
just go study the crusades the church did in middle east.

they knights wore heavy metal armor.
they faced swords and arrows and things like that.

They couldnt penetrate the crusaders metal armors.
wich is why the crusaders only needed a fraction of the army and still win.

the crusaders were like a moving brick wall… a real juggernaut.

And if you want to know what a 2 handed great sword could do to leather armor…
well.. 1 swing… cutting of limbs… arms and legs, was no match for a greatsword.
While the dagger didnt even scratch the paint of the knights armor…

You were saying ?

Scoobaniec.9561:

Says a warrior, like you have room to talk. Thieves only do what they’re meant to do: deal tons of burst damage. But if you look at them they die. Squishy as hell. You on the other hand? HUEHUE GUYS 100BLADES INSTADEAD.

I think its a minimum 40 second internal CD on frenzy… but what ever…
Heart strike spamming doesnt have an internal cd…

But i personaly react more to this you say: “Thieves only do what they’re meant to do”.

ok, so what is our warrior supposed to do, whats his job ??
please tell me… iam very curious about what you say…

Iam just gonna give you a little something to think about.
GW2 have no trinity… or so atleast A-net says… so… what is our job again ??
And more, what is your job as a thief again ??

Opynn.2936:

Thief have a privilege to run in paper armor in wvw. OP invest in tougness till you get 2,8 – 3k armor. It may not save you but it can give you time to react.

Been there, done that…

It doesnt help for kitten.

If the thief is bad. you kill them no matter gear.
If the thief is moderate. they kill you. no matter gear YOU have.
if the thief is good. the thief will toy with you, and if he gets bored. you die in 2 – 4 seconds, no matter what gear you have.

and people saying killshot is op when compared to a stealth stabb.. ?? umm ye, right.
you ppl smoke much ? sounds like strong kitten,, care to share ?? =))

Ok, i have this shield on my guardian…
look at it.

Its a BIG kitten Towershield. its as big as my norn… i realy like it.

Now the stupid part.

My shield have 61 defense !!!!!
My smallest piece or armor. gloves. have 182 defense…

So, my shield is worth 1 / 3 of my gloves in defense… i mean seriously.
So my shield is helping to protect me as strong as 1 finger…

I think this finger gesture was made by A-net on purpose.
“here have an “innovated”… F** you shield… LOL,, we trolled youuu"…

I whink wow made a good choise and kept a good control on their stealth classes.
If you ambushed or garrotted from stealth… you were visible, and had to fight.
You had only 1 skill to get away as rogue.. vanish.
BUT, if you had a dot on you, you had to be very careful on the timing.

Comparing to GW2, and the insanely op thieves.
They have unlimited ways to restealth when ever they want. (part from 3 seconds ??)
They dont have to worry one bit about timing the stealth, because if you stealth with a dot on you… who cares…

But most of all… heavy armor, WAS heavy armor in wow also.
And if you needed more, you could swap to a shield during a rogue encounter.

In GW2 our shields are crap… read below and i show you why. its realy silly.

yey.. so we can use 3 swings to do the dmg as a 1 backstab… GREAT.

how ever, you first need to be able to hit something to get that chain hitting dmg…
dunno if you have a cheating program to see thru stealth… but i have no clue what so ever about where to swing, if the thief decides to play stealth and toy with you.

Facecontrol.2075:

This is the only game that i have seen that a melee class has to stand still and channel a skill and a ranged casters can move while casting. Hundred blades, Stomp, kick, Flurry, Kill shot, staggering blow, all those skills lose their function since u have to stand still and cast it in a big animation that gives u a passive arrow above ur head that says “shoot me now cause i will take it”

Isnt it supposed to be the other way around to favor the melees cause of the penalty of no range? Especially in a game that even if u go in close combat the opponent can either dodge away fast or he can block u

BUT…
A-net is feeling “innovative”, didnt you know that ??
*Giving Dagger/Dagger melee specc to a light armor caster class…
*Giving weak ranged dmg to a caster class. and not even chanse to improve…
*Giving ability to shoot harder with rifle than rangers to warriors…
*Giving rangers ability to tank alot better than warriors, and sometimes guardians…
*Giving warriors stationary skills in a full mobile and constant shifting surronding…’
*Giving warriors heavy armor, but in reality its only as strong as toiletpaper…
*Not using trinity..but still have different classes doing the different “dps-healing-tank”,
still wont realy matter how you specc…

and on and on it goes…

JETWING.2759:

More armor are good, but shoud result in full berserker Warriors and Guardians (invincible/imortals Guardians)

Warriors needs better resources in his heal, utility and elite habilities for equality with others classes (i think aditional efects or/and rework in atual skills).

ye, true, guardians might become realy realy annoyingly hard, since most of them are running with tank gear in wvw.
But, isnt that a guardians job in the first place ?? to be realy realy hard to kill.

But if they give heavy armor more armor.. to actually work as a heavy armor.
I think we will see more guardians in dps gear in wvw also.
and is that a good thing ?? to give classes options.

why you get nerfed ?

only 2 people at A-net doing balance of classes.

one playing thief, one playing mesmer.
and i dont make it up.. its actually true.

so only thief and mesmer are allowed to be op.
i thought we all already knew this.

Tolmos.8395:

Am I the only one who uses throw bolas before 100b in PvP? >_>

I actually used both… bull charge and bolas in wvw.

helped me for crap.
i still ended up swinging in the air hitting nothing.

When the developers design a game to be mobile… casting spells while running.. hitting while running… everything is about mobility and dodge…
then WHY THE FECK… did they make a stationary attack on warrior…

“lets give warriors a stationary skill, just for the lols and trolls of it”…