Guild Wars 2

Best thing about GW was the pvp cause it was about guilds at war, nothing in GW2 has that aspect. The ladder system was a great feature in GW just wish they carried it on in this game. Every guild wanted to be top and that made ppl carry on trying.

It’s a zerg fest, no tactics, it’s just get a force bigger than your enemies and you’ll win

dreztina.4820:

DAoC was the last MMO I played. My main was a cleric. I had 10 skills on my main bar and about 25-30 more abilities I used regularly in fights and more that I didn’t. For those not familiar with DAoC, it isn’t a cooldown based game, at least not for the basic class skills, so most of those abilities could be used at any time depending on what needed doing. I had to do a ton of different things, all with split second reaction times.

The level of mechanics, positioning, group interaction, and enemy interaction in DAoC was so incredibly far beyond GW2 that I’m having trouble playing this game for more than a handful of days here and there because I get bored. I’m maining an ele, the most intensive class this game has to offer, and it’s boring.

I also played GW1 from release until the first expansion. Again, there was a huge amount more depth. Tons and tons of viable skill builds, lots of interaction with your group, a heavy focus on reactive play, etc. The only reason I didn’t stick with the game is open world roaming pvp is my thing, and arena pvp isn’t.

There are very few actually interactive skills. You don’t really change much based on the situation. You don’t really do much with your group. You don’t really play off your enemy very much. You pretty much run through your rotations with minor adjustments. And there is a serious lack of viable builds. Changing a minor trait doesn’t make it a new build. I loved the ‘deck building’ aspect of GW1, and hoped to experience the same in GW2, but there’s just not much there.

So no, GW2 does not have much depth. Anet got greedy with the whole ‘easy to play difficult to master’ philosophy, counting on things like combo fields to add the high end depth, but the game just ended up ‘easy to play’ and that’s about it.

I don’t even hate the combat; it’s sort of fast paced as long as I stick to ele/engi and there’s some fun to be had with dodges, but it’s boring.

Spot on, Anet should of listened to more Daoc players then this game would have so much better and been the “game to beat” but sadly i think after TESO comes out this game will fade away like so many mmo games.

Class: Monk

You know the rest :P

Basically why ppl have left the game ages ago, the zerg rules unless they can be killed by a fg it’s just a zerg v zerg game.

With no WvW or PvP progression my guild of 30 quit and i’ve read from other forums that guilds of 50+ has quit cause of this also. This game had so much promise but unfortunately in beta the devs didn’t really listen to certain players like the pvp players. They listed tonnes of problems that would occur and fixes that could avoid them but when the game came out all those problems remained and funny enough all those problems happened then made loads of players quit pretty quickly.
Since i came to this game just to do WvW, the beta was fun due to low numbers testing it, it had that Daoc feel of group vs group and as most groups were guild groups so it also had that Guild Wars feel. Game came out, all that beta love had been lost, the name “Guild Wars” does not even come into the game at all. As testers we did all agree in one thing, maps were too small and would attract Zerging to rule, look what happened, the zerg rules. So many things were listed and so many of them had a massive effect on the outcome of the game which is such a pitty, the game was good and just needed more time to make it better and had someone who listened to players who have spent many years players good mmo’s.
No the game probably isn’t dying yet but when the Elder Scrolls Online comes out that will have a massive effect on the player population since that game already says it has progression in it so all the old Daoc lovers, wow arena players, Warhammer players etc will probably go there.

This time next year id say the game will be in trouble when TESO comes out. By the time they fix WvW and PvP all the pvpers would of quit and TESO has pvp progression which this game needed form the start. Yes some ppl wont like the style of the elder scrolls but im sure a hell of a lot of other ppl will like it and it’s being designed by the same guy who bought us Dark Age of Camelot, the best pvp game to date.

HabibLoew.2590:

The North American and European data centers are different in one important respect: they are located on different continents. North American players connecting to the NA data center (and European Union players connecting to the EU data center) will generally experience lower latency and a higher likelihood of playing with larger groups of other players, as those in the same data center tend to operate during similar times of the day. So there are real distinctions between the data centers which their EU/NA affiliations make clear and for that reason we will not be removing their continent designations.

We don’t match up worlds from multiple data centers for similar reasons. Ultimately, the server that runs a WvW map must live somewhere in the world and the players who connect from that same continent will have a distinct advantage over those connecting from another continent due to lower latency. In order to keep things as fair as possible to all involved we keep the matchups within each data center.

Of course it is always possible for an EU player to choose to play on an NA server, or vice-versa, but in doing so that player is choosing to take on the burden of additional latency. That situation is vastly different from our matching system placing an entire team at a latency disadvantage without their knowledge or consent.

tl;dr: data centers are on different continents, latency is an issue with inter-continental connections, data center distinctions are here to stay.

Daoc and War merged the EU and US servers into a few US based servers and they work fine. It also makes it a fair 24 hour pvp game, instead what you have here is a few servers have US players playing on EU servers and vice versa against servers who are a EU or US true server. The ones with both player base playing will always win but if you combined the servers then all servers would have a 24 hour player base making it fair. The elder scrolls online game as a great system in place meaning it will be a fair 24 hour battle (that’s if their system works with thousands of players logging on). You need a fair system and merging like the OP said is the only way to make the game fair.

I would just like to add is that when GW1 came out, the monk class wasn’t a class that jumped out at ppl and said play me, infact like any other mmo’s at the time the healer class was the least played class. It wasn’t til when guild groups became a thing, then healers became a popular class to play. If anyone had played Rift when it first came out, you’d probably see a good 50-60% of players were healers. I understand why Anet took out healers because of GW1 groups were standing around for ages looking for one but if they had looked at any new game they would of seen that healers were now a common class. In my experience, if ppl came to a game on their own they would pick either a healer or a tank type then find a guild and make new friends, if ppl came to a game with a guild from another game or friends they would choose within themselves who plays what. Healers would not be short if they had them in this game.

Yep loved being a healer in many mmo’s the heals in this game does not save anyone. Dps is far greater so the tiny heals that players can give out is useless. Everyone in my guild (30ish) has quit due to no support, no team play, broken wvw, the downed system so many many more issues but everyone said no proper support like healers killed it for them. Having a “healer” could mean the zerg in WvW would be killable but without heals the zerg is the advantage.

We even tried me playing a full water Ele but the area heals still healed for a tiny amount compared to the amount of DPS ppl can put out and as soon as the 2 area healing spells were used water Ele’s are just useless.

This game feels like a solo game even when grouped. It’s up to you to keep yourself alive and that takes away all the team gameplay that all the other mmo’s had including Guild Wars 1.

just ban all Chinese ip addresses problem solved

Yep, keep being disconnected now very annoying please fix it.

Thanks for the update but i really wished that you had listened to what the beta players had warned you guys about some problems that we predicted. Small zones, amount of players who were coming for the WvW, downed system, too many mobs, zerg friendly but all that said i hope you have listened to what everyone has said and i’m hoping you can fix this great part of the game.

Well we are not exactly talking about “many”.
DAoC subscription numbers weren’t exactly huge but the players just seem to be pretty vocal.

This is true but in Daoc we didn’t need to queue to get in to the “End Game”, they had servers and the technology for everyone to RvR with no lag, no invisible players, small groups could take on large groups by good team work and a system which made you keep playing through their Realm Rank system. GW2 supports zerging and it’s the zerging which made ppl quit many mmo’s with similar open pvp content.

dooger.2640:

My guild has done WvW or Rvr for eons, we love it but the current wvw in gw2 does not cut it.

We expect and normally love fighting big zergs, and love the trash talk and community that normally forms with rolling huge numbers with good groups.

But here the pvp is all anonymous, no-name, no infamy stuff. Who is kicking kitten in the zone? who knows. In warhammer you could see who was tearing it up, from kill spam and mods to track it. We had people that were fun to fight against, and had long standing feuds & rivalries, that turned into friendships (we have had several old enemies join us in new games). Here its all dry toast…

The normal fun of fighting huge numbers with a smaller force, if further dumbed down with the orbs, and the downed system. The old triad in structured groups is replaced with 2 roles: killers and stakers. One group is maxed out dps to down people fast, and the other is on stake duty. This works very very well, but its garbage game play. People don’t want to stake rez, I even hear people wishing they could heal and be part of the action again.

Rezzing is great in pve and garbage rvr (the bad players all standing 10 feet apart shooting arrows),it jsut breaks down in anything coordinated really really fast.

In any event, my suggestions (That I am sure other have brought up as well)
- Orbs need to be toned way down, way too much to hand the already dominating faction (and likely dominating at night)
- Show enemy player names, and show some zone statistics on kills/ rez/ whatever, lets give people some bragging rights and attempt to get community going
- Downed system is not an easy fix, but its just not fun in high end pvp. Remove the invulnerability when going down in WvW as a start, and keep it as is for pve.

Daoc was a great game and the bragging rights and knowing who your fighting was one of the best things they had in their RvR system but this was said and asked many many times in beta and was sadly rejected by the devs. If they change their minds it would be a great move but i think there is a few more important issues. Downed system, map size (too small), invisible players, queues, lag, looting and night capping ( even though i know it’s a 24 hour battle, i think it’s unfair players who play from USA play on designated EU servers just to cap everything without defenders and vice versa).

I agree with the OP the game just isn’t fun anymore, those fixes you stated were also spot on, the only thing i would add is the the maps need to be much bigger. It’s far to easy for a zerg to get from one side to another due to all the area speed skills/spells available. I will also agree with anyone who wants to see the dreaded downed system go, it’s horrible and only worked in Left For Dead, it’s not a mmo mechanic.

kgptzac.8419:

Doesn’t look like there’s a topic on the official forum yet so let’s start one. I’ve been following that thread on reddit and trying to get all the developer quotes. Here’s a summary list…

• Player culling (“invis­i­ble army”) issue in WvW is trou­bling the devs as much as us play­ers, and they reit­er­ated that the fix is not sim­ple and require much more work before a fix is pos­si­ble. And of course, no ETA of any sort, but it is work in progress.
• There is some­thing in devel­op­ment that will “greatly increase” num­ber of con­cur­rent play­ers in WvW. (!!!)

Should of copied Daoc system, they had unlimited numbers in their WvW (RvR) zones and they had no problems with invisible players. Such a shame, the game had great promise but this is a massive problem which will make a alot of players leave. The only way i can see a way around it, is too make the cap smaller but have multi overflows running or copy Daoc’s 3 massive frontier zones.

forthegz.5814:

Make the world vs world maps significantly bigger and redesign ‘Borderlands’.
(Or combine all 4 maps into 1 giant open world zone.. kind of like when you zoom all the way out)
Issue:

The maps are too small, the objectives are too close together, their are not enough objectives. – This allows 1 large group of players to roam around each zone within minutes. The point of ‘open world pvp’ is so that 1 large group is ‘slow’ and can be countered by multiple smaller groups hitting multiple objectives. There are simply not enough objectives and not enough distance between each objective for this to actually be a possibility. As it stands, WvW is actually Zerg vs Zerg.
(If you time how long it takes to run across ‘Borderlands’, its actually laughable.

‘The Borderlands’ was apparently designed to ‘narrow’ the players down the left and right side ‘lanes’ . This is due to the large body of water in the middle of the map and the symmetrical design of the map in general. This almost eliminates all choice of what keeps to take… that choice is really an illusion, because there are so few objectives.

The combination of terrible map design (borderlands) and an absolute under-sizing of all 4 maps..creates a system that forces players to zerg down the same objectives over and over, rather than actually having an Open World PvP game.

If the maps were bigger players would be able to execute more strategy and server pop would not be the deciding factor. Obviously if you cram players into such a small map, and make it so ‘fast and easy’ to take keeps than of course the group with more numbers will win. Poorly designed system.

Anet said that they ’ were inspired by DAoC and studied their RvR system’.. well apparently no one that works at Anet has ever played DAoC. I don’t know what they studied but fake open world pvp absent of almost all actual strategy was not RvR.

I feel bad for anyone who never experienced an Open World PvP game before… because this game has sold you an illusion of open world pvp.. not the real thing.

I agree with you but of course Daoc had 3 Frontier zones not just 1 to spread the action out.

Ranc.7192:

@anti It is possible………but It would take a couple of years to program and test…..and a good amount of money.

Anet would have to redo the entire pvp system of the game………and they will never do that.

The reason we have 4 zones is because the engine cannot handle all those players in one zone…..

heck the engine has a hard enough time handling all those players in 4 zones

Daoc had unlimited number of players in their frontiers and they had the technology 10 years ago, there is no reason why GW2 can’t use it. The large zones spread the action out, yes a zerg of 100 v 100 at a keep did happen and the server handled it fine, other player could even pass through the zone nearby the keep without knowing there was a massive battle just up the road, the only thing that gave away where the battles were was the death spams. What made the action? Guilds claimed keeps and when guards from that keep was killed that guild got notified by spam of numbers who are attacking that keep. If that guild was online and had numbers they would rally up and head out to save the keep, if they lacked numbers online they could tell an alliance or just global it letting more ppl know. Some guilds prefered to save their own claimed stuff so other guilds could do other stuff. If this happened in GW2 it would bring the name into the game “Guild Wars”, atm with small maps its just zerg wars.

Spurnshadow.3678:

I see, so whoever has the biggest zerg wins? That’s so not true. 15 can hold off 50 at a properly defended tower. I’ve held off a hoard for over an hour in the lord room with like 15-20 on our team with arrow carts and ballistae untill reinforcments signed on (it was like 9AM when they finally gave up.) How you delploy your forces, speed of reaction to the enemy, what you’ve invested money into, what objectives you take, and who you’re taking them from are critical.

So you beat or held off a zerg with the cover of a tower and arrow buckets? now try that in the open without seige, it’s impossible due to the downed system and spell damage cap.

Helspyre.7082:

+1 hate

It’s frustrating as a small group to wipe out a chunk of a zerg only to see them bounce back up seconds later before you can finish them.

I have no prob with the slow rez for “dead” players.

Happened too many time with my small group we just don’t run anymore, love to see this downed system go.

Trismegistos.3046:

pve = it’s great
wvw = it’s ok.
spvp = remove it!

Pve = Great
Spvp = poor
WvW=very poor (encourages zerging + impossible for small groups to take out much larger groups in open fights)

Slamz.5376:

You missed the main reason:

Zerging makes you practically immune to AE.

5 man group = 100% damage from AE
10 man group = 50% damage from AE
20 man group = 25% damage from AE
50 man group = 10% damage from AE
(effectively)

This is because AE can only hit 5 people. So if you’re in a group of 10 and someone does an AE on the group, you only stand about a 50% chance of being hit by it. This is why you see big coordinated guilds all clump up on doors. When there’s 30+ of them, they simply because immune to AE. 10 people can rain AE on the door, enough to instagib an individual, but with 30 people in a shifting clump, the damage gets highly diluted. Attacker 1 hits 5 people but doesn’t hit the other 25. Attacker 2 hits 5 other people but doesn’t hit the other 25. Etc. Nobody is going to get hit too hard, despite 10 people raining AE on them.

It’s just how the game is designed. The enemy of the zerg is AE damage and this game has severely restricted the AE, so the zerg is greatly empowered and can really only be beaten by another zerg.

Anet please listen to this guy, lets get rid of this stupid cap!

Just drop the downed system it does not work for WvW too many problems with it and it’s very unbalanced. For instance, 1 group can’t beat 3 groups running together, yes the 1 group could possibly down most of them but it only takes 1 person of the 3 group to kill someone from the small group then everyone springs to life again. It also encourages zerging and it’s the zerg that is ruining the game. My 30 person WvW guild is down to 3 cause of problems with this side of the game and the downed system is one of the few big problems.

katniss.6735:

I’ve played WoW, and Rift, and neither of those MMOs have pvp maps as elaborate as GW2’s WvW. What is boring about them? sPVP maps are also erotic.

Well in the Daoc frontier their zone was the size of all 4 maps combined then double it maybe triple it and that was just 1 frontier of 3 (all 3 frontiers were also different and had different types of keeps), it had no queue either the amount of players who could go into there was massive. It was far better suited for 3 worlds like here and something that needs to happen here along with a rank system if WvW is to have any long lasting effect on the game.

Yes they are boring, they are far too small, the zerg can get to one side to another so quickly even small mans who try and take stuff get zerged down, daoc had it right with Old Frontiers when they had a much much bigger zones to roam in, small mans could do their stuff and zerg could do theirs without bumping into each other. Daoc in New Frontiers was what started the downward spiral, ppl knew where the fights were and and that meant loads of ppl flocked to that point creating a zerg and this is whats happening here. Yes ppl are still enjoying the WvW but ppl will start to get bored doing the same stuff all over everyday which take a place move to another take that let the places get retaken then retake them, it’s pve with a pvp element. Anet should go down the Daoc route, keeps/towers nicely spread out, remove the action swords from the map and have a massive frontier that can hold unlimited number of players. Battles between each realm should be unexpected with ambushes etc but thats only possible on large maps.

Spot on, end game in most mmo’s is normally PvP or RvR or item grind to show off high level items but in this game pvp can be done straight away, wvw can do done straight away and as for items the karma, crafted and dungeon armour are all the same and way to easy to get. Daoc did something great, it took a good 6 months to reach top level (it’s a lot quicker now) then you had to get good armour and weapons by farming dungeons and world bosses like dragons then you went RvR (world pvp) where you gained ranks and where it took ages to get to the highest. Infact, since they made more ranks only 2 ppl have gained the highest rank in 10 years. You had something to aim for so players kept playing atm we have nothing to play for if you have everything, WvW is too queued and if you do get in it’s just a zerg fest, a boring way of playing.

I’d rather see the downed system dropped from the game altogether but yeah Ele’s downed skills are very bad.

A Monk since healing is poor even if you spec into it. Atm it’s all about damage we need to scrap the no healer rubbish then maybe more ppl will work together as groups more instead of playing solo all the time.

Monsoon.2589:

Hey why not also adding a fishing contest to a pvp area? How about a cooking contest too or a watch paint dry contest?

PVE in wvw maps (grub or complex jumping puzzles) should NOT be in wvw zones. I understand you can have gathering nodes but as far as pve content goes that should be it.

It really annoys me that while we are fighting zergs there are people who are wasting a slot jumping around while others are stuck in a queue for several hours waiting to fight. If there were no queues I would not mind. If there is a queue there should be no instance jumping puzzles.

And yes I too am a fan of Lara croft serie and the jumping and discovery of assassin’s creed but I leave this to pve and not pvp

Spot on

WvW is a right mess atm. A lot of ppl are seeing this as the end game, get to level 80 get your items then just WvW but since level 1 players can go in there this is where it’s sort of all gone wrong. Many WvW guilds ( playing the game just for WvW ) are trying to get into the maps to help their server so they have geared up and ready to rock n roll but are being stopped by the lowbies, there isn’t nothing wrong in this but it is keeping those who will help out a lot more to those who basically go around hanging in the zerg and not really doing anything and still gaining xp and karma for it. Not so long ago i saw 5 players just hanging around the portal killing those mobs that spawn close there while real WvW players were stuck in the queue, in beta loads of the testers were telling Anet to get rid of most of the mobs to stop this but they never listened.
Lag is a massive problem, your running around then suddenly your in the middle of a sodden zerg, players with all kinds of specs of computer are having these problems, enemies and mobs just appear in front of you even putting the game on low settings and with high char distance it still does it. This happened in beta also and was not corrected.
Anet tells us to transfer to bottom ranked servers….well i can tell you this it does not help one tiny bit, queues are everywhere.

What we do know is that somewhere someone from Anet placed a comment saying they are working on “a fix” but can’t say what atm nor when it will be ready by, i really hope they add a Daoc style frontier where unlimited number of players can enter and the zones were massive ( probably 3x the size of the 4 maps put together for 1 zone and there were 3 of them). I’d keep the ones we have atm also just that would be better for small time action maybe used for more guilds v guilds stuff. I don’t think that will happen but lets hope the fix is a good fix and it comes soon.

Joined this game to play and just play WvW, on a small server and STILL, i repeat STILL queuing, why didn’t you guys follow Daoc’s style? They have unlimited access to their frontiers that game is over 10 years old if they could do it back then surly you can do it here?

Cursed Shore – Ruins of orr. Event has been stuck since Saturday. Event in question is at Penitent Watpoint where you need to protect the technicians, we’ve been protecting them since Saturday and no progress.

The currant state of WvW is really bad it’s just zerg zerg zerg. the major promblem is that ppl zerg to get the points quickly and move on the the next without the need to defend it from attackers cause their is little reward in killing the attackers, Xp and karma is more important to most players. We need a rank system in place
similar to the Daoc system where killing other players gives you realm points (name it something different if you like).
Each player is worth 1k points but you only get the full amount if u do 100% of the damage to that player. If your in a group the realm points get split between each group member. Realm points get you realm Ranks (lets say 10 ranks) and each rank
has 10 levels ie: Rank 1 level 1-9. when gaining each Rank it should give you something like maybe a trait point to spend. It could also allow you to access Rank armour. Gaining ranks takes a lot of time so it means WvW has a long time appeal.
Taking keeps and points with no defenders gets you no realm points so ppl who take everything when everyone is sleeping gets no advantage, you only get realm points for taking stuff if there were defenders.

Also when enemies release from death it should also effect the score so if X amount of players release they lose points for their server. By these changes it would cut down the zergs as ppl wont gain a lot of realm points from zerging and will gain more from roaming in guild groups where the name “Guild Wars” will come into the game, atm it’s more like zerg wars. Solo and small man groups will also become more important, they can pick off players and feel they are helping the server in making the enemy release to lose points.

I am saying this just cause i have been left alone solo so many times as the enemy who should of killed me ignored me so they could get somewhere before it was taken and lose out on cheap xp and karma. It’s something i feel the game needs and it needs it badly.

The lower ranked servers still have queues so if you make ppl from the higher populated servers go to the lesser ones it will just make the lesser servers have bigger queues, this isn’t the way to sort this out. The best way to sort this out is to have a mirrored match-up on an overflow server where those on the overflow can still gain points for their server. When places come available on the main match-up you get transfer’d there. This will let everyone who wants to WvW in and help their server. Lots of ppl on the beta warned Anet of these massive server alliances for just WvW that were being made which had well over the cap. Players will never transfer as most WvW guilds are part of these massive alliances.

Also part of the problem is that lots of players are heading to these zones to zerg it up getting cheap xp and karma by taking points then moving on. Players are not even bothered in killing enemy players since there is no point, no reward, there needs to be a reward system for killing players this will reduce the zerg meaning it could reduce lag and other problems like players not loading til they are right next to the player. Dying and releasing should have a negative effect on servers points, ie X amount of players release = loss of points.

On Piken Square, many of the events in a lot of zones are bugged and can not be completed. Too many to list but Cursed Shore is really bugged, all the events are not working.

Server: Piken Square
Guild: Nordic Dream
Tag: ND

Guild is bugged again, can’t upgrade anything, can’t claim, can’t invite

Just make mirrored matches! when all 4 maps fill up the match up is mirrored by the same 3 servers, points gained in the mirrored match gets added to the scores in the prime match up but cause it’s not in the original match points and xp gained are less due to balance issues that could happen. When ppl leave the prime match up maps the players on the mirrored maps would be taken back to the prime map. Everyone can then enjoy WvW without queues. How about that for a fix?

This is what i warned them about durring beta. Guilds were making huge alliances just for WvW and this is what is flooding the system. Really the cap just isnt high enough for the amount of playing coming to this game just for WvW, need more maps and up the cap.