Guild Wars 2

coglin.1867:

hooma.9642:

….

Wait, so now your suggesting that having the same toughness/health level on separate damage types, while putting out the same damage, doesn’t matter?

no it doesnt matter. by your logic english and german are the same cause they use the same letters.

hooma.9642:

….

Conditions by definition cannot burst. This is why they are called damage over time. When they can literally apply direct damage as fast as they can apply condition damage there is no problem. You seem to be mistaken about where the lack of understanding is coming from.

yeah right condition are damage over time, thats why i sayed conditions are fine except the application is broken on engi and necro, cause they can BURST with conditions and no direct damage cant apply it as fast without setups or special circumstances. not like engi and necro from range without any precursor.

hooma.9642:

….

Wait, even though someone literally just posted the same necro with the same build fighting two different warriors with the same build, and displayed how one got destroyed without proper counter play, and the other thrived with counter play, your still suggesting there is no counter play. We are literally showing you video proof that opposes your statements. Yet, your counter to those facts are to repeat the same thing you have already posted?

SAME BUILD? how in gods name do u even come to the conclusion they use the same build?

hooma.9642:

…

You do not have to like it. The fact is, on a fundamental level, builds are relevant. Name us a single MMO in which builds are 100% irrelavent.

Builds are relevant. Yes. But Builds are determining winner or looser of a fight are a different circumstance and Anet stated they dont want Build wars. On the same time the engi and necro forcing ppl into build wars.

hooma.9642:

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This exact question is asked of direct damage attacks? This point is completely moot. If you run the necro staff in a full power build, which skills do you dodge? When a persons so bias that they pretend a path of logic only works one way, then they do not want to actually know they facts, they are then, clearly arguing out a bias based on pure conjecture.

the only bias here i can see is your argumentation by complete denying what happens in reality and not in your pen and paper comparisions. what u should dodge against a power necro using staff? depends. but unless on a condition build they arent that dangerous if not dodged.

hooma.9642:

…..

kiting, moving out of aoe is counterplay. equipping as much condiremove as possible is counterbuild.. the both vids showed exactly that. no matter how perfect he had played in the 3 he had still loosed simply by the fact that enemy had a counterBUILD + -CONDIDURATION FOOD and in the 4 the enemy had loosed even if he played perfectly and the necro had made a lot of mistakes.. there is no counterplay against conditions in the actual state of game. only counter building.. so hard to understand?

Prysin.8542:

Gc vs Gc atleast ranger v thief. Its 50/50. First strike wins. Such is the battles between the two most dedicated single target dps classes.

As for othe professions. Thief wins due to bad counterplay.

lol never read such nonsens.. first strike wins? stop telling total bullkitten from your wvw experience fighting noob thiefs. enter tpvp and loose every fight against a competent thief, no matter that u will strike first. that the problem with that professionbalance, ppl like you pretend its all fine if it isnt just cause u can win against noobs with bad builds.

solrik.6028:

I’m killing people with LB and GS in wvw and I’ve been told that it sucks because, well, it just sucks without any reasoning.

I’ve also played with GS and Sword + Dagger (or torch) on a condition build with traps and have been told the same when they asked what build it is.

I’ve played with Axe + Dagger on a power build and that sucked too.

The point is, that some people might tell you different things. Most on the forums just complain about rangers, so no point in listening to them. Those three builds are viable, because people were conceived. For the first, second and third, they thought I was a Bearbow, Melee power glass and Condition build.

Then there are the very skilled players. There can be very skilled thieves, so good that they literally evade every one of your skills other than the basic one.

One you might want to listen to is Durzlla because you will surely get an unbiased answer.

I’ve noticed that playing different against real players is part of the key to success because it’s something unexpected. Ranger Hilt-Bash is almost always followed by Maul.

There are also some combos which you can do with your pets. For example, the jungle spider has a family skill that immobilises and a special (F2) skill that immobilises too which can be chained almost always. Pets have a pattern, which tells them when to use their skills.

For melee “alone”, i.e. without any other factor playing a role, you can do different things. Make sure you can use your heal by leaping away from your enemy, heal, then leap back into the fight. There is just enough time for that. #3 and #4 are both evades and apply poison, so you can play with that.

On GS, you can double evade by turning away from the enemy while casting the third attack. It’s easy to do with NPC’s but it’s difficult with real players. It pays off to do so, though.

TL;DR
Durzlla will probably give you a good answer.
I would say that a ranger is as squishy as the player makes it. A top tier skilled glass thief “isn’t” as squishy as someone who only played a week. Same goes for any other class (except warrior maybe )

the ppl that tell you the builds sucks play mostly tpvp i guess, where the builds truly suck.. it doesnt matter that u beat noobs with it. and durzlla with his/her little amount of games is not in the spot to tell different stories. oidmetala for example plays on top in eu leaderboard.
what u play in pve doesnt matter.

@op
1-hand sword is your best option if u wanna go dmg. coupled with dagger you are somewhat evasive in melee fight if u master aa-self root.

dancingmonkey.4902:

hooma.9642:

im getting tired from such nonsense argumentation.. how about stop demanding prove from every post u see against conditions and deliver evidence that proves your point.. so far i only see u demanding.. esp since you for yourself claim stuff without any evidence and your claimed proven facts with vids are also false, cause u refuse to compare the reality!

I agree, it is absolute nonsense to request that you offer any evidence to a claim that has already been dis-proven, what are we thinking…………Oh wait, silly me, that is a perfectly reasonable request.

Evidence for our argument? You mean like youtube video damage comparison posted on the last 7 thread on this topic? If the same 10 posters would stop spamming the forums repeatedly with this same thread you may have seen them. Perhaps had you looked at all, I don’t know. As well, previous threads have comparative damage out put break down. …

see thats your total mistake that i mentioned. i talked about reality that every spvp/tpvp match tells you.. not some stupid dps compares against a target golem or your calculations based on numbers… there is to many u cant cover.. u seem not to understand that.

u can compare your dmg as long as u want. it doesnt matter. u and all your companions seems not to understand this. as long condis can BURST its broken. simple is that. the rate of application on necro and engi is broken, cause thats the only both classes that can condi-BURST… thats not a problem of condis or power and has nothing to do with dmg that different dmg-types or build do. its just a matter of possible negating and counterplay.

and to repeat there is absolut no counter*PLAY* involved against condi-builds. either you BUILD to counter or not. there is no middle way. either u have enough condi-cleanse to complete negate his build or not. its the way like diamond skin work just in a different scale. u seems not to understand it.

it doesnt matter if u cant apply any condi or i just have always more cleanse than u can apply and can outheal the remaining dmg. the fact that my BUILD simple counters yours, without any possible way u could turn that outcome, with more a less passive, is a counter BUILD that should not be in GW2. in the most cases its simply the other way around. hard to understand or what?

edit:

http://www.twitch.tv/xxkakarot/c/3859738 Old dumbfire Condi dps test
Rotation:
Staff 2-3-5, Dodge+wep swap, enter ds, ds5-3-2, scepter 2-5-aa so about 12 actions with random dumbfire proc

http://www.twitch.tv/xxkakarot/c/3848362 power valk amulet
rotation:
SoS for % damage modifier, WoS+WoC, flash ds for fury, AA chain like a boss. 5 actions.

condi spec now will take at the very least another second to kill since we need to use lb 1 to proc burning.

Now for those who complain about not being able to counter conditions I give you this: http://www.twitch.tv/xxkakarot/c/4031535 I was just smashed with no hope of a happy ending.

now here is another warrior that sounds just like most of the people who complain here: http://www.twitch.tv/xxkakarot/c/3439319 see the difference?

first vid.. useless. like the second. so what should your opponent dodge? your marks directly placed under him? your 0-animation and 0-activation time fear? i dont even want to mention the build

second vid.. lol.. yeah your opponents stay in your well in tpvp… good joke. maybe on your level of play. but on my level is actual counterplay. oh and btw u forgot something very important.. the SETUP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and i dont even want to mention that you needed your utilities to BURST or that you needed to go melee.

u complain about keystrokes? how about playing fresh air ele? since when keystroke messure something? besides that, funny that you not count your aa for the second vid.. good way to COMPARE

3 and 4 vid just show COUNTERBUILDS and the advantage/disadvantages of the right FOOD

3 and 4 show exactly what i mentioned.. the first had simple to many condi removes and the second not enough. 3 had not won with 1 and 4 had still loose with 1. there was no room on both cases for COUNTERPLAY

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Brando.1374:

hooma.9642:

dancingmonkey.4902:

hooma.9642:

..

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did you happen to look at those 2 warrior duels I put up?
1 know how to counter conditions and is a wvw roamer
the other well is like many who post complaints.

And both seemed to be running the same build. So much for “no counterplay, only counterbuild”

sarcasm? they have complete different builds. the only common i could see was hammer as 1 weapon, heal sig and signet of rage.

coglin.1867:

bobomb.5209:

Terrahero.9358:

bobomb.5209:

Terrahero.9358:

bobomb.5209:

Make an only power “power” build and see how well you fare against condition builds. No precision, no ferocity.

Pretty well actually.

When you play power without prec or ferocity your likely a bunker. Then its on you to make sure you cover your bases.
My d/d ele doesnt have any particular problem with condition builds at all. Neither does my guardian.

Especially not bunker condition builds. They have no burst at all, i can easily and constantly outheal their predictable damage.

So you can kill them?

Condition bunkers? Ofcourse not, dont be silly… Its a bunker. Bunkers are builds to endure heavy damage, if a bunker dies to the pressure from another bunker it wasnt really a bunker.

We just stand their slapping eachother untill one of us gets bored and leaves.

In which case the power in your “power” build might aswell be condition. Because condition is more effective as a bunker than a power bunker. Condition bunkers can actually kill people since their damage revolves around one stat, where as power builds revolve around three.

Conditions are more effective? Care to provide any evidence to support this? As of now, your only making claims based on the meta. Yet all the video comparisons posted previously, and skill damage comparisons show that as a whole, power bunkers and condition bunkers have congruent damage out puts.

The problem is, players will build to counter direct damage or to stack damage skills themselves, but players almost unanimously do not build specifically to counter conditions. Instead of building to counter conditions, they claim the are OP or lobby for nerfs to them.

im getting tired from such nonsense argumentation.. how about stop demanding prove from every post u see against conditions and deliver evidence that proves your point.. so far i only see u demanding.. esp since you for yourself claim stuff without any evidence and your claimed proven facts with vids are also false, cause u refuse to compare the reality!

on a side note i find it interessing that my post about conditions are build wars based need to get proven but as yourself mentioned “building to counter”…. if you cant understand the problem in that part u havent understand anything about balance and not wanting to support build wars in gw2.

Rym.1469:

First thing I’d do:

-Merge all Opening Strike MM minors into one, 1 point. Your and pet first attacks are criticals and reset on killing/cooldown. No vulnerability. It opens whole 2 minors for way more interesting options.

-Ferocity gained from Skirmishing tree swapped with Condition Duration of Marksmanship tree. This way, Traps actually make sense there and MM is logical “Power” tree, starting from new Minor Opening Strike benefiting from Ferocity.

Here you go, two quick changes greatly improving the whole concept.

i would change opening strike into following:
adept: opening strike on pet and ranger that applies cripple for 5sec
master: opening strike always crit and applies blind for 5sec or no crit and swiftness for ranger
grandmaster: opening strike also removes a condition for every target hit and grants vigor for ranger 5-10sec

that way it would open some condi remove outside of empathic bond. has a little survival on longbow and the grandmaster trait would make sense. all what then is needed is piercing arrow default + bugfixing the stealthshot with piercing arrows.

outside of that i would also remove/change some points in Skirmishing to add some traits that interact with blind on target. like boon remove. or even better vigor sources for power rangers

also i would add that qz ignores blind and weakness during duration.

Ragnar.3916:

hooma.9642:

Ragnar.3916:

ranger is in a really bad spot after this patch
with all this amazing things for ranger…

but if the cdi topic leads to more things like poison master as a grandmaster trait, then i fear, there is no more hope for this profession any more.

sorry i missed the sarcasm and need a hint

no sarcasm, ranger one of the worst prfessions.
even more after this patch.

well what are then the amazing things u mentioned?

quick question? do u want BUILD wars?

the actual game is simply BUILD wars regarding conditions. either u have enough cleanses and lack defense for other types of dmg or u havent.. there is not middle way, where 1-2 cleansing-skills/traits are enough to somehow outplay a condition build like necro or engi.

on the other side i can outplay a stunlock warrior with 0-1 stunbreaks as example.

in sum conditions are fine except the application from necros and engis is broken!

Ragnar.3916:

ranger is in a really bad spot after this patch
with all this amazing things for ranger…

but if the cdi topic leads to more things like poison master as a grandmaster trait, then i fear, there is no more hope for this profession any more.

sorry i missed the sarcasm and need a hint

Gwalchgwn.1659:

oZii.2864:

Cygnus.6903:

I feel they are over the top. It is not that everybody has access to them that makes them balanced, but rather not every class can utilize them well that makes it a bit unbalanced.

I for one expect the nerf before conditions are getting a real one.

Yet this thread claims EVERYONE is using them. You have a team you get might from your team and you may have blast finisher but no fire fields. It all works out.

You don’t need any help from a team. Get sigil of strength and 45%+ crit chance. There you go, perma might and rune-buff. I could maintain about 5 might of stacks easily. Having a skill/utility that grants you might briefly helps for the first attack since it’s 2-3 swings before you have a might stack.

(PS: I’m not against the rune but the nerf wouldn’t bother me either since I’m using different runes now.)

u dont need any critchance.. getting hit is enough to get at least 2-3 perma stacks of might to boost your dmg

and to the ones arguing that this rune is good, cause its against condi players. just lol, do u even realize that might boost also condi-dmg? ever seen how-much dmg condis does with 25 stacks of might?

condi dmg would be fine if it would be damage over time and not die in 3 seconds… dont try to compare condis against power and argue that power does more dmg. yes it does. but its needs usually to be melee and use a freaking “SETUP” to negate your defense… 1 single stunbreak or right dodge can negate the complete BURST of power builds. but not on condis. 1 condi cleanse cant negate all the dmg condi builds does. thats the problem with condibuilds.

usually there is no counterplay. either some has so many cleanses or usually not enough. a condiuser doesnt need to think about WHEN to burst with condis. the only exception is zerkerstance on warrior. where as power u need to force dodges and knowing when to start your burst. thats the only problem i have with condis. the fact that no brain is needed, cause either u win or not.. its build wars and not how it should be.

thief is op in a gc vs gc fight. simple is that.
on the same its under powered in build choice and for sustained dmg and with defense against condis.

simonerd.8672:

Op is a think that only a class can abuse macking the game unbalanced, runes of strenght aren’t OP all calss can use !

END OF THE STORY!

why not introduce atombombs every class can use.. im sure it will be funny to have 1-shot mechanic all over the place. and dont complain, cause its clearly balanced if every class CAN use it.

so much rage..

honestly if u have no intention to talk about balancing then stop posting. i have no intention to talk with trolls or ppl who miss any sense of balance if the own class is involved. pick your insults and pretend you won the argumentation.

Klocknov.8219:

Okay, so a fix to skill that needed it and a re-vert of two previous changes after fixing some of the issues that were causing them to double to qaudruple proc, thus was making us broken. A trait that was pretty much the main condi-cleanse the class had having a 30s internal CD that was not stated (if it was 30 it may have been longer) being reverted, yes we are absolutely the most broken class in the game… The trait-line changes really do change how the build was to is now, as well the triple stun-breaks being gone makes a mad difference.

I will not argue with you that the build is strong, but I will argue with you that it needs to be nerfed. I agree with Soltice the problem is in how strong the Strength rune is, you would be stupid to not use it. As well with celestial having such a high Ferocity number, it sticks the crit damage 1% less then Valks and Zerker, the only amulet that has more is Cav. It isn’t on the class this time, it is on the utilities they gave us. Yet we still have a hard-counter with boon stripping. Get a well timed boon-strip to a burst and we can be a sitting duck.

Fix the gear then look at the class, becuase if they look at the class before the gear then we will be looking at ele in the EXACT same spot as it has been since they nerfed DD to the ground. You want to talk broken, look at the new Fresh Air specs… Oh wait same gear just different traits, how about burst guardians? Just trade cele for zerker… Now lets look at most burst classes, I think Strenth rune is your go-to pick for most of them. So tell me it isn’t the rune at the moment and I won’t believe it till the rune is fixed.

the gear is not the problem. its the traits. or better the reverts. this spec is simply to strong. all strength runes does is boost the dmg, even without strength runes the ele had won the fight against these 2 ppl. why? he outhealed them.. pretty sure he doesnt even touched 1 time his heal. with no icd on cleansing water + cantrips condis arent a problem. with high protection uptime he has plenty of sustain. and no boonstrip isnt even a matter of choice against that constant application of boons. and its not only celestial.. these build with current traits and skills would faceroll with cavalier and valky amu without strength runes.

esp if we consider the actual strong of strength runes that prop. the thief and mesmer had them too. so why they could not do enough dmg to kill 2vs1 that ele? your answer is strength runes on ele? just lol… what a logic.

if u dont think so. pick that build, learn the noob-rotation, go duel server and change your gear to experiment. after that u maybe have some sense of balance.

this build is op. u heared it here first.
im fine with bunkers unkillable 1vs1. im fine with hybrid beating pure zerker or condi-builds 1vs1 if geared right. but its not ok that builds exist with enough sustain and power to win undermanned fights. or that builds exist with good protection against both dmg-types to negate them enough to outheal the remaining dmg. and thats exactly what d/d does. strength runes or celestial just closing the time to kill from ele-perspective, but doesnt change the ground problem of that build. it was to strong and dead nerfed. now after they reverted the changes it is again to strong, even stronger thanks to runes + sigill changes. no balance in the meantime.

Duran.3196:

hooma.9642:

..

Okay for half a year now Elementalist is finally viable again and ppl are already crying for a nerf.

And its nowhere near hambow, cause its definitly harder to play.

lol sure. its not harder to play.. learn to stupid rotation thats all whats needed

the most runes are garbage cause they mixed to many good stuff in singles runes.. they havent create a choice. thats the only problem. rune of strength is a good candidate to split the function into 2 different sets.

to the ppl who thinks rune of strength is a “weapon” against condi-builds. no its not. might is at least equal powerfull on both types.

runes of rage as example is garbage, cause if u really would need that rune to get fury u are prop. a zerker player with less fury source and cant get afford to get hit just to get fury.

Solstice.1097:

hooma.9642:

Solstice.1097:

hooma.9642:

Locuz.2651:

egan.2751:

thnks locuz i’ll have a look to it

The team that won the tournament of legends had a dagger dagger ele that ran with this build:

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fFAQJAoYhcMKc25wxBd0AiAB5ukqRBlfHTB-TJhIwAAOBAX2f47DAQYZAA

Vod with footage of the finals:

http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2/b/523635495

Notice how at 2 hours 32 and 20 seconds the DD ele is forced to prefent a cap against a mesmer and a thief. 15 seconds later he not only survived but managed to get the mesmer in downed state, in a 1v2. The guys he faced are the current rank 1 and 2 on the teamq leaderboard, so they are top tier.

Notice how he not only has the dmg to kill stuff + is able to survive vs some of the best bursters in the game + add a lot of support with condicleanses and 25 migthstacks on everyone in bigger teamfights.

that alone hasnt give u any doubt that maybe something is wrong with a spec that is surviving and killing ppl undermanned? and esp fast i want notice.

its not OP spec unless its played by OP player. people forgot how to deal w/these eles and will learn again. Most the damage is from might stacks which thief can steal and burst him down, or ele with AT…. even the shatter should remove dat might but if you let him get those stacks up he’s a killing machine.

really i mean really? thats your explanation?
so u wanna tell me nr 1 & 2 from teamq dont know how to fight a ele and on top of that the ele player was so gooooooooooooood that he was winning an undermanned fight with unviable spec.. interesting!

i smell smoke! where smoke is there is fire.. i hope u know what that means.

unviable? it’s very viable i said its not OP as in it doesn’t need a nerf. of course they know how to fight eles but this is a very new meta and so is this build – I mean it’s concept isn’t new but the re-worked skills and heal and celestial ammy and strength runes make this a new build that takes practice to fight no matter who you are.

if anything needs a nerf in that spec its the strength runes.

its an old build nearly the same like before.. some added stuff like evade-frames or blastfinisher doesnt make it complete new. it was out of control last time and with new celestial it seems out of control this time too.
and no its not only related to strength runes.. its a hybrid build that gets boosted with proper rotation from auras and aura related traits. to many protection uptime with to short duration to steal it. all strength runes do is negating the need for fury on aura to get higher dmg. its exactly the same monster like before and thats why it needs a nerf. its the equivalent of hambow on ele!

Solstice.1097:

hooma.9642:

Locuz.2651:

egan.2751:

thnks locuz i’ll have a look to it

The team that won the tournament of legends had a dagger dagger ele that ran with this build:

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fFAQJAoYhcMKc25wxBd0AiAB5ukqRBlfHTB-TJhIwAAOBAX2f47DAQYZAA

Vod with footage of the finals:

http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2/b/523635495

Notice how at 2 hours 32 and 20 seconds the DD ele is forced to prefent a cap against a mesmer and a thief. 15 seconds later he not only survived but managed to get the mesmer in downed state, in a 1v2. The guys he faced are the current rank 1 and 2 on the teamq leaderboard, so they are top tier.

Notice how he not only has the dmg to kill stuff + is able to survive vs some of the best bursters in the game + add a lot of support with condicleanses and 25 migthstacks on everyone in bigger teamfights.

that alone hasnt give u any doubt that maybe something is wrong with a spec that is surviving and killing ppl undermanned? and esp fast i want notice.

its not OP spec unless its played by OP player. people forgot how to deal w/these eles and will learn again. Most the damage is from might stacks which thief can steal and burst him down, or ele with AT…. even the shatter should remove dat might but if you let him get those stacks up he’s a killing machine.

really i mean really? thats your explanation?
so u wanna tell me nr 1 & 2 from teamq dont know how to fight a ele and on top of that the ele player was so gooooooooooooood that he was winning an undermanned fight with unviable spec.. interesting!

i smell smoke! where smoke is there is fire.. i hope u know what that means.

Locuz.2651:

egan.2751:

thnks locuz i’ll have a look to it

The team that won the tournament of legends had a dagger dagger ele that ran with this build:

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fFAQJAoYhcMKc25wxBd0AiAB5ukqRBlfHTB-TJhIwAAOBAX2f47DAQYZAA

Vod with footage of the finals:

http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2/b/523635495

Notice how at 2 hours 32 and 20 seconds the DD ele is forced to prefent a cap against a mesmer and a thief. 15 seconds later he not only survived but managed to get the mesmer in downed state, in a 1v2. The guys he faced are the current rank 1 and 2 on the teamq leaderboard, so they are top tier.

Notice how he not only has the dmg to kill stuff + is able to survive vs some of the best bursters in the game + add a lot of support with condicleanses and 25 migthstacks on everyone in bigger teamfights.

that alone hasnt give u any doubt that maybe something is wrong with a spec that is surviving and killing ppl undermanned? and esp fast i want notice.

Sarrs.4831:

Why not just raise the CD on Might-when-struck to like.

20 seconds or something.

how about no reward for being hit? all that afk-specs getting out of control.

this trait is a no brainer.

47.5% uptime of burning with that trait alone without any modification is to strong. even a monkey would pick that in every build that want apply dmg. any argumentation against that fact comes only from ppl missing any sense of balance.

Neko.9021:

hooma.9642:

cheese.4739:

Let’s just hope that, should D/D turn out to be OP, they get the nerfs right instead of driving all Eles into the ground again.

problem is what u wanna shave? signet? cantrips? amu? that build is op… it just isnt clear yet so few days after patch. but believe me. every ppl with a sense of balance playing that build know that it is op.

to find the right spot to shave only that build u need to find a spot that is related to the circumstance and not used in other builds that are fine. but whats exactly the problem? the sum of stuff like on hambow?

We know what it is. It was unviable pre-patch.

The major things that changed were the Signet, Celestial Amulet, and Double Sigils.

Signet helped give the Ele back its sustain it once had. People were pretty shocked to see Eles able to run away with 2000ish HP after the patch dropped, mainly because they hadn’t seen that sort of thing for a year. But those who can remember what life was like before the Signet got nerfed will remember how maddeningly sustainable the Ele could be if it chose to kite enemies to the max. Un-nerfing Signet of Restoration was major. I also think it was a good change – it’s easily the most important skill for several Ele playstyles. A class’ viability often hinges on how good their #6 skill is.

Celestial Amulet getting buffed gave the Ele what it’s always wanted – lots of stats. Before, Eles always ran weird sort of combinations like Valk’s Ammy with Zerker Jewel. Or maybe even a Barbarian jewel. The Ele has always struggled to maintain decent stats in PvP. Now, with the sheer stat inflation of Celestial Ammy, those weaknesses are mitigated substantially. Because low stats were a way to balance out the Elementalist’s power, it also follows that the stronger stats get, the stronger the Elementalist becomes.

Finally, double sigils really boosted the Ele’s playstyle, along with new sigils in general. Generosity Sigil is a great counter to condi specs and the common Energy+Battle sigil combo give an Ele tons of might and dodges. Little changes like this significantly altered the overall power level of the Elementalist to new heights – only the Engi and Warrior got it better. While the Ele does get less sigil slots, the fact that it’s simply easier for the Ele to proc swap sigils than for other classes makes it much stronger.

Runes of Strength also had an impact, but to be honest, I think the changes above combined with the old Strength Runes would have had a pretty similar effect. Eles have always made good use of Strength Runes (once they ACTUALLY WORKED), but they weren’t viable before so it hardly mattered.

I agree, however, that it’s a big problem. The change to Signet was a good one, as its very existence is necessary to the viability of some Ele builds (especially D/D). Celestial Amulet arguably needed the change it got, but at the same time, there’s a good argument to be made that Celestial in general shouldn’t exist. I feel the change to Sigils no longer sharing cooldowns shouldn’t have happened, but it’s too late to undo such a big change now. Also, even though D/D 30 Water 30 Arcana is an annoying build, it’s at least one provably viable build for the Ele at high level play. It would be an incredible shame to take it away after Eles just finally managed to find a place in the meta.

so its more a sum of changes. but the question is the same. where shave without cutting other builds?

tcg won by stacking cheese (warrior + s/d thief) and op d/d celestial ele what counters old meta. if u believe d/d celestial is fine u have no sense of balance.

back to topic:
to be clear. might also effects conditionbuilds. and its even stronger on condition builds. 1 reason is the current dmg condis do is not calculated by the amount of condi-dmg at the application time. its always calculated by the current amount.

what anet did with this rune change was a massive powercreep. in the past you could mix your runes to get a higher might duration but of the cost of getting less power + no additional effects. now you get nearly the same duration + other strong effects + more raw power.

all rune and sigill that provide a getting hit effect that affect the attacker and not the one getting attacked are toxic for the game and just plain wrong, cause they promote passive play.

boon-steal is also very strong right now under right circumstances but on the same time also very underpowered if faced with a boon-machine and 4th-rune effects. also keep in mind that ranger as example can strip 0 boons.

a right balance would be runes provide nothing except duration bonus like mixing-runes did before. and some runes providing nothing except raw stats and a strong 6th bonus but with nothing that has a build-in synergy. a good balance example is rune of the scholar.

@oidmetala
let us talk later tonight

infantrydiv.1620:

Dahkeus.8243:

hooma.9642:

@dahkeus
positioning means nothing in this game with all that stealth and port and even z-axis ports! so having a longbow ranger sitting out of supportrange to pew pew begs for an easy stomp for thiefs or mesmers. at this point this place is a burden for the team.

another important fact. your build provides nothing to the team and with your positioning u gain nothing.

A ) Just because classes that generally fill the roamer role can port to a ranger doesn’t mean that the ranger is helpless against them.

B ) Rangers give knockbacks, cripple, immobilize and vuln from range. Wolves also provide fear and you can easily step in for a stability stomp when RaO is up. In other words, you can easily knock enemies off point and keep them there while also being able to prevent stomps/rezes.

C) The gain of the positioning is negating the AoE conditions/CC that many of the meta builds are currently spamming.

1. RaO is the easiest boonsteal/corrupt in the game. RaO should have its cooldown halved, and the boons it gives halved as well to make it worth taking.

2. cripple and vuln from range? why not take a warrior and have massive burn fields, 5k aoe arcing arrows, bleed from range… or necro, poison, bleed, chill, fear, condi transfer from range… or staff ele…meteor shower, massive aoe heal, down cleave, static field. OH, and all these things have more damage mitigation than Survival of the Fittest power ranger.

that and:

A. a ranger longbow/gs ranger is helpless against them. all viable roamer (aka thief) will have no problems with a powerranger (in fact a semipower). what u wanna do? use rao? well it gets stolen. blow your only stunbreak? blow your survival skills to cleanse blind? well to bad it all happens again few seconds later! use knockback to have him be right in melee 1 second later? use gs-block that in 99% will not hit? use maul? use your stun on gs during the high evade-times or against blind? good luck.. beating noobs with a build doesnt make it viable.

B. high stability uptime on other classes says hello! aoe cleanses during a group fight says hello! to bad you will having nothing like that cause u positioned yourself out of supportrange! also u seems to ignore that all your “RANGE” attacks are only single target (except lol-aoe skill nr5 on bow and with piercing arrows->bad if you positioning yourself to high to hit the ground behind your target) and wide behind the dmg other classes/roamer can deliever if they arent AOE.

C. yeah u negating some dmg or cc. but on the same side you deliever nothing to your team and getting nothing. also you are out of supportrange. what u wanna do if a thief ports to u? run into the group to die because you have no defense? or peel of in the false hope of outrunning a thief (lol good luck with that) and furhter increase the range where ppl can help u?

to sum it up. this build provides nothing to the team except some singletarget dmg from far away, that is below what other classes can deliever. is helpless against most other classes/builds (even 1vs1) and just gets carried from other players. that alone lets you believe its viable.

cheese.4739:

Let’s just hope that, should D/D turn out to be OP, they get the nerfs right instead of driving all Eles into the ground again.

problem is what u wanna shave? signet? cantrips? amu? that build is op… it just isnt clear yet so few days after patch. but believe me. every ppl with a sense of balance playing that build know that it is op.

to find the right spot to shave only that build u need to find a spot that is related to the circumstance and not used in other builds that are fine. but whats exactly the problem? the sum of stuff like on hambow?

@dahkeus
positioning means nothing in this game with all that stealth and port and even z-axis ports! so having a longbow ranger sitting out of supportrange to pew pew begs for an easy stomp for thiefs or mesmers. at this point this place is a burden for the team.

another important fact. your build provides nothing to the team and with your positioning u gain nothing.

Alissah.9281:

So youre personally attacking us, just because we dont like it when people talk kitten to us and use verbal abuse… Well I hate to break it to you, but not everyone enjoys being verbally abused. We just want to have fun, and maybe say hi or discuss tactics… But people either don’t say anything, or rage…

And yes, the community is toxic.

not everybody likes to play against endless cheese.. if the community is toxic because they are sick of noobs mixed with better players or afk specs, well its all anets fault.

Tree.3916:

hooma.9642:

Tree.3916:

Cool story, but it appears I was right, you don’t know how
….

if u think so, well to bad for u. alone that u think 30/25/0/0/15 has the same CRIT-DMG like 30/30/0/10/0 with same traits in strength shows me u have no idea what u talking about.

Why would I use Slashing Power in a 30/30 pure axe build? I would use Axe Mastery which gives 150 Ferocity, which would be the same at the 15 in Discipline.

lol… do i really need to say what traits i use? i was thinking axe mastery+dual wielding is obv. in both builds. esp since im not talking about gs vs dual wielding. my statement about gs was to show that gs has higher aa dps then axe in 30/25 build.

Tree.3916:

mentioning food and saying 30xx30 is unplayable is the best joke ever. stick to your pve-world and make your high-end dmg but dont cry if u die else where. it had a reason i mentioned utility

Ummm we are talking about pve top dps builds. I guess you weren’t.

Since you’re talking WvW I’m not sure why anyone would run anything but 0/0/30/10/30 or 10/0/30/0/30 in WvW.

in pve is still 30/25/0/0/15 gs the highest dps choice. the 10% more attack speed dont compensate the better dmg from other weaponskills and reduced rechargetime.

in 30/30/0/10/0 with axe, no might, no killstacks in lyssa rune and zerker amulett (pvp)
and 3 boons the avg dmg of aa per sec is 1665 against 2600 armor. u see that isnt that much away from the old gs build without might and only aa.

akallou.9704:

hooma.9642:

cant watch it thx to your music. why a showcase video needs music btw?

What is the problem with the music? can’t you mute this?
I’m playing with some playlist going on, video records it automaticly and i uploaded it raw

no its blocked because rights and i dont want to use a proxy just for that

Tree.3916:

Cool story, but it appears I was right, you don’t know how
….

if u think so, well to bad for u. alone that u think 30/25/0/0/15 has the same CRIT-DMG like 30/30/0/10/0 with same traits in strength shows me u have no idea what u talking about.

mentioning food and saying 30xx30 is unplayable is the best joke ever. stick to your pve-world and make your high-end dmg but dont cry if u die else where. it had a reason i mentioned utility

cant watch it thx to your music. why a showcase video needs music btw?

Tree.3916:

FatRaKoon.1782:

Honnestly, if you count on the new “Dual Wield agility” trait to boost pure axe builds, you’re gonna be disapointed… like a lot. It’s only 10% percent attack speed increase : chop takes 0,25 seconds to activate, double chop probably a bit more et triple chop takes 1,50 seconds.
A difference of ten percent will be pretty invisible to notice, even in DPS output.
I’ll never put 30 points in Arms for this useless junk and I admit I’m kind of surprised by the people who are convinced that this new trait is going to make us warrior stick to only one weapon set.

But then again maybe there’s some other new trait I haven’t heard about and which is good ?

Do you know how to calculate DPS? I think you must not, because otherwise you would know how amazing a 10% DPS increase trait is. Unless you can show DPS calculations that demonstrate otherwise, my numbers 30/30/0/10/0 is about 10-14% better sustained DPS than 30/25/0/0/15. And the 20/30/0/20/0 EA build is about 13% better than then the current 30/10/0/20/10 EA build.

The difference between 11,000 DPS and 12,100 DPS is the difference between lower tier Ranger/Necro DPS and top tier Thief/Ele DPS. This is distinctly non-trivial amount for min/maxers.

well i dont want to disappoint u but i show just a few numbers:

• 30/25/0/0/15 build + lyssa runes, without might and stacking sigill
  - + 38% raw dmg throught traits => gs aa avg dmg per sec: 1662,81 against 2600 armor
  - + 33% raw dmg + 10% crit dmg throught traits => axe aa avg dmg per sec: 1576,86
  against 2600 armor
• 30/30/0/x/0
  – +10% for dual will never compensate the lost of 15 critdmg depending on critchance
  - empored is only 1% per boontype. i hope u can calculate how many boons u need and the needed uptime
• 20/30/0/20/0 against 30/10/0/20/10
  - depends on critchance
  - it looses 100 power, 18% dmg, 10% crit dmg
  - but it gets 20% dmg via attack and bleed, ca. 9% critchance

in my opinion its a bad trait. not because it doesnt add enough dmg, only cause u will need to spec with dual weapon deep into a traitline where only u hasnt much options for dualwielding weapons. i think best build for dual is still 30/x/x/x/30. gives nearly equal critchance but more crit-dmg and better utility.

Singer.8740:

hooma.9642:

Manuhell.2759:

Except it isn’t a little disadvantage, and it isn’t compensated at all by the class mechanics.
I’m not an expert on the elementalist class, so i’ll talk about the engineer.
And a class like the engineer, by default, has less skills than any other class. As kits are optional and should be treated like so when balancing the class on the whole. Also, toolbelt skills are already balanced with the utility they’re paired up…often making for limited effects in both of them. The only case were there was a good effect on the toolbelt – toss elixir R – they nerfed the utility to the floor.
And what about other classes, like guardians, who’ve got 3 signets as their mechanic and yet have a second weapon and related sigils?
There is simply a bias in how the classes are balanced, that’s the problem.
But that should be clear enough, seeing they didn’t even care to make a single reply about the whole issue.

how i already said. for pvp will nothing chance except no more shared icd.

in pve it doesnt matter if some can equip 2 sigills more or not.

in wvw it doesnt matter also. the possible gap between stats is already out of control with food and all the other stuff that add stats. so why cry for 2 sigills less then other classes if it doesnt decide a fight?

but it could deside a fight, thats the problem. Being able to stack bloodlust and use a superior sigil of force and strength (ham/bow cough cough) or bloodlust and air and fire (thief cough cough) sounds like a big deal to me.
So once again and I would love to here your thoughts and your idea’s to solve this issue and once again please post any general discussion (such as is it or is it not an advantage posts) in the thread below;

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/Sigils-Ele-and-Engineer-punished

:)

the chance that it really decides a fight is very very small. the difference in your example is either 250 less power or 5% less dmg or less air procs or less fire procs or less might (i doubt it regarding ele) or 5% less crit chance. all in all not that of a big difference to decide the outcome of a fight. usually its a fail dodge or anything else.

during a fight are only 2 sigills at maximum active (only current weaponset). the only advantage other classes have are either that difference of statpoints or more flexibility on other weaponsets. but an ele and engi has even more flexibility with attunements and toolbelt skills or kits.

and as a hint: the most powerfull sigill is energy. thats the only that really can decide a close fight.

Prysin.8542:

@Hooma
Nice try, but you are commenting “cross mode”. That build is NOT a pureblood sPvP build, it is a PvX build. sPvP builds are generally made different because power specs are hopeless in there, no matter what prof you play. Conditions scale too well, too easily there so in sPvP, conditions are king. Come WvW are your average condi build is often getting smashed by power builds (such as this one) because A; higher stats, B; food buffs, C; less contained areas, thus easier to avoid huge marks on the ground.

Seriously, your comment shows a serious lack of understanding how the different modes works, and it is no more then an attempt at bashing someone.

really? i mean really? do u even play spvp? power specs are hopeless in there, no matter what prof?

every semi-pro thief with a spvp build eats that ranger build as long he is lvl 80 even with green gear and without any food buffs.

it has nothing todo with cross mode. this build has 0 defense. yeah it has 1 stunbreak and 1 short invul., 1 block but thats all regarding power attacks. even the condi remove is bad. except might buffs for pet (lol) there is no boon related to defense. nothing.

and btw do u really think without swiftness your pets will hit a moving target with 25% speed?

this build simply put all on his pet, that will regardless how the respond to f2 is, will be bad in attacking any player with a brain.

the next thing about the pets is the pet choice. is horrible. yeah the pets do dmg. but they has 0 cc or soft cc. besides the longbow knockbakc (lol knocking enemy out of pet attack) and your gs-stun (yeah go into melee with 0 defense)

and to get this clear i play true powerranger in spvp. i know what im talking about. with this build all he will kill are noobs or level up ppl

Prysin.8542:

Durzlla.6295:

Atherakhia.4086:

AEFA.9035:

Atherakhia.4086:

Durzlla.6295:

Atherakhia.4086:

I don’t care how strong the build is. The pet will never come close to a Warrior or Thief, lol.

You’ve clearly never used a 25MB 30pt cat/drake/bird

You’ve clearly never played a Thief or Warrior.

Now it’s my turn…. rolls eyes

like i said before in ranger forums. the only way to see whos right is to go 1v1. been offering my self as tribute vs these forum warriors, let’s just all go 1v1 when we want to see who is right.

No one’s trying to prove one Ranger’s better than another. I don’t even mind the build Chrispy posted. It’s the commentary that the Ranger’s pet can replace an entire class that is outlandish. The implication that Chrispy’s build would be useful in anything but a duel. These are my issues with a lot of the comments in this thread and the CDI thread from last month or so.

Ravens and cats hit kittening hard, have big frequent burst and are squishy, thus thief, drakes are very tanky and hard to kill and have cleave + big damage and some burst (not as much or as frequent as cat and bird) thus warrior.

That’s what I was getting at.

EDIT: I also kittened up the original post and was more trying to say that with the pet you’ll deal as much as/maybe even outshine the warrior, not the pet alone.

It is not unusual for a Jaguar to do steady 4-8k crits in sPvP, in WvW, with 17 might stacks (RaO + Warhorn 4), Signet of the Wild and Sic’em i have seen my cats attacks reach in excess of 10k for a few seconds. Sure the enemy can run in circles to avoid the pet, but since most professions OTHER then ranger has horrible DPS on AA, they actually hurt themselves more then it hurts us, especially when you run BM and you yourself run conditions while pet run raw damage.

good joke

Manuhell.2759:

Except it isn’t a little disadvantage, and it isn’t compensated at all by the class mechanics.
I’m not an expert on the elementalist class, so i’ll talk about the engineer.
And a class like the engineer, by default, has less skills than any other class. As kits are optional and should be treated like so when balancing the class on the whole. Also, toolbelt skills are already balanced with the utility they’re paired up…often making for limited effects in both of them. The only case were there was a good effect on the toolbelt – toss elixir R – they nerfed the utility to the floor.
And what about other classes, like guardians, who’ve got 3 signets as their mechanic and yet have a second weapon and related sigils?
There is simply a bias in how the classes are balanced, that’s the problem.
But that should be clear enough, seeing they didn’t even care to make a single reply about the whole issue.

how i already said. for pvp will nothing chance except no more shared icd.

in pve it doesnt matter if some can equip 2 sigills more or not.

in wvw it doesnt matter also. the possible gap between stats is already out of control with food and all the other stuff that add stats. so why cry for 2 sigills less then other classes if it doesnt decide a fight?

ThiBash.5634:

Sorry, I figured I’d make an attempt. I thought I was pretty clear in my explanation.

Ele/Engi: 1 stack sigil + 1 other.
Rest: 1 stack sigil + 3 other.

Can’t make it any clearer than that…

simple math and logic u still fail to understand that the type of sigill doesnt matter. 1 group can equip 4. the other 2. simple is that.

u could exploit the system in wvw and pve with stacking sigill, but that will be shut down after patch. it also hasnt changed anything except numbers, 1 group 5, the other 3.

is it a disadvantage? yes it is, but is only a very very little disadvantage that get compensated enough throught 4 attunments on ele or on engi with minimum 4 toolbelt skills and several kits.

Sube Dai.8496:

Benjamin.8237:

Most full Zerk ranger builds run signets and are extremely gimmicky and spammy. I wouldn’t recommend them whatsoever however if your really want to play a power build (you will struggle vs high ranks) then try this.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vMAQNAR8XnMqQLL2KI+rAXLGIaP4k5xE7B/T0ieFmVBbqA-TsAA0CnIuSdl7KzVyrsXNEZBxmDA

This build is hard to recreate in PvP so I chose the Valkyrie amulet but the build has decent healing/condi cleanse and more importantly high armor and power. It builds crit damage over crit chance because of Moment of Clarity and Sigil of intelligence. You can play defensively and then interrupt them with great sword, then switch and use axe 4 which will hit twice and pull them. Moment of Clarity gives +150% to the first hit and intelligence, from my testing (but I may get lucky and be wrong) effects both hits.

But don’t get to down if you can’t play amazingly as it is a ranger power build.

I like this concept. I haven’t tried high crit damage with low precision before. Would you mind posting your WvW version of it?

if u plan on using it i can say it will not work in pvp. some long time ago there was an equal trial on warrior with sigill of intelligence and evis.

coglin.1867:

Prove it. You keep suggesting the race favors conditions, then give some side ways suggestion and state something completely irrelevant. I mean come on, you could at list make up an off the wall anecdotal example or some thing. As of now, you haven’t chosen a single logic path that didn’t apply to direct damage builds as much as it applies to condition builds.

? not any own logic? how about looking in some of the other xxx threads about condition dmg. do u think i want always write the same stuff, that get replied with no logic like this guy does it https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/Sigils-Ele-and-Engineer-punished/page/3#post3876572 in other discussion?

how about u look what weapons are usually condi-weapons and what are used for dmg builds for start. it should clear that condition classes usually arent melee. so they dont need sticking to a target like a dmg class. => soft cc isnt esp rewarding against ranged build as like against melee.. => kiting.

as next step you could also count the counter to both dmg types. or how about a typical build is looking and what the rotation is. or do players like u really think dmg classes kill with aa in pvp?

Valentin.2073:

hooma.9642:

my build:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vMAQJATRjMqUyaLL+rw1agY9YP7vP9Dcizg/MqgNVA-TgAg0CnIQShkDJDSSksIB

sigill depend on enemy teamcomp. fire, air, strength or energy. depends on thief, supposed mm or tanky setups of teamcomposition. the same goes for spotter. if mesmer, mm or spiritranger is in game change to piercing arrows.

this is a good build. i like it. great dps. im just wondering if this can be effective in tpvp because this build is slow moving. this build is definitely not a roamer but it can be a great spiker in group fights and it has 3 stun breakers.

gs3 is the key and not nec. using elite for fights rather for moving and disengage

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

hooma.9642:

yes auto on scepter is maybe less effective without dhuumfire but still hits like a truck over the time with condidmg and application of bleed. or u wanna tell me we should dodge grasping dead cause the 2 bleeds or feast of corrumption on a condimancer?

i also throw incendinary powder into the mix

i hope u realize unless some good skills there isnt much to dodge on condi-builds. but all the spammy thinks apply condis that kill u rapidly.

What you should dodge is dependant on the situation and your own build. Signet of Spite is always worth dodging/blocking, but perhaps you have an advantage and want to deny the necro life force. So, dodge Feast of Corruption. Are you getting kited around? Grasping Dead should be avoided, then. Afraid of a condition transfer? Better dodge that Deathly Swarm. Need your damage to stay up? avoid the Enfeebling Blood.

Yes, you can’t usually avoid all of it. You aren’t supposed to. That is where the player’s skill comes in: making decisions rapidly, and responding to what your opponent decides. If you could avoid everything, you just would. You aren’t making decisions then. This is true on power builds as well. Do you dodge the Arcing Shot, Pin Down, Backbreaker, Earthshaker? Do you block the Rapid Fire, Hunter’s Shot, or Barrage?

I am not commenting on Incindiary Powder because I feel it also needs a rework similar to Dhuumfire.

how i mentioned, some skills are worth to be dodged. but your little explanation should show u that u arent dodging any of the dmg-ones. it also shows besides these “big” skills the dmg portion comes in too small pieces to complete avoid it and sums up quickly. that the difference between condi-builds and power builds atm. its a race where the favour lies in condis.

Jerus.4350:

hooma.9642:

Althalos.6734:

hooma.9642:

running as fast like a ferrari has nothing to with trinity. all classes can build in every possible way. there are enough tools, like in this example runes, to compensate in some way possible disadvantages throught design. is it equal effective? no, but why should it?

Because all professions were meant to be able to perform in every aspect of game on equal level, they were just meant to do their job in a different way. Which actually means guardians should have been given something in return in form of traits/profession mechanics and not mandatory items.

And a bit more on topic, I’m more in favor of granting the guardian better access to soft CC than more mobility.

funny cause guardian has some good skills to hinder enemy movement.

Like?

Hammer3 is easily dodged.

Hammer5/staff5 is easily run over with stability or dodged over

Scepter 3 is not bad, but scepter…. yeah….

GS5 again stability, but it’s not bad I guess, just not all that great and a longish reuse even with traits to lower it.

Sorry if that came off as a bit rude, that’s not the intention, but really, what moves are you talking about? If there’s something I’m missing I’d love to know, but my experiences with the ones above are just mediocre at best.

.. but stability

u act like stability wasnt there for a reason.

Althalos.6734:

hooma.9642:

running as fast like a ferrari has nothing to with trinity. all classes can build in every possible way. there are enough tools, like in this example runes, to compensate in some way possible disadvantages throught design. is it equal effective? no, but why should it?

Because all professions were meant to be able to perform in every aspect of game on equal level, they were just meant to do their job in a different way. Which actually means guardians should have been given something in return in form of traits/profession mechanics and not mandatory items.

And a bit more on topic, I’m more in favor of granting the guardian better access to soft CC than more mobility.

funny cause guardian has some good skills to hinder enemy movement.

yes auto on scepter is maybe less effective without dhuumfire but still hits like a truck over the time with condidmg and application of bleed. or u wanna tell me we should dodge grasping dead cause the 2 bleeds or feast of corrumption on a condimancer?

i also throw incendinary powder into the mix

i hope u realize unless some good skills there isnt much to dodge on condi-builds. but all the spammy thinks apply condis that kill u rapidly.

Cogbyrn.7283:

Auza.4253:

“Unlike critical damage, in which all you need to do is close your eyes and swing your weapon away, condition damage requires more dedication in combat. "

Comments like this make me want to avoid this debate all together as I find condition damage so cut and dry as a ‘not good gameplay’ situation.

Condition damage and pet damage are both zero skill cap. You set it and forget it,

I stopped reading at this point. If you read the initial comment and came back with that, then you’re basically the Direct Damage counterpart of that person’s Condition Damage mentality. It is neither fun nor interesting having a discussion with someone who is blindly biased in either direction.

Here’s a hint though: you can dodge condition application, too.

here is a question. how many autoattacks you can dodge?

Althalos.6734:

Uhtameit.2413:

I know quite a few decent guardians who use torch with scepter in PvP so it’s not that weak. For instance it’s quite good coupled with sword/focus and the GM trait that gives +15% crit one one-hand weapons.

Again, no no no no, I suggested to get the trait to chill because the OP asked for soft cc options. This is one of the few guardian already possesses. Don’t bend my words into some other meaning : the trait is not amazing, but it is a soft cc. And it is pretty much reliable if you use it with the GM i just mentionned that could get you around 65% crit.

Glacial Heart works with hammer only which is a two handed weapon, Right-Hand Strength doesn’t apply here. In addition, you have to sacrifice Monk’s Focus (read sustain) if you want to have Focused Mind for Fury and Glacial Heart at the same time.

hooma.9642:

so u have a suv but it is boring and the ferrari is just more fun to drive. but cause stupid design philosophy of ferrari u cant drive with them off-road. ???

seems reasonable

And I thought every class was supposed to be able to everything, this is not a trinity game or is it?

running as fast like a ferrari has nothing to with trinity. all classes can build in every possible way. there are enough tools, like in this example runes, to compensate in some way possible disadvantages throught design. is it equal effective? no, but why should it?

Prysin.8542:

hooma.9642:

but as far i know anet, the poison will use pet condidmg for calculation.
other classes can easily apply perma poison. necro and thief.

Anet already stated during their live stream that the condi damage on the PET attack would be calculated from PLAYER stat. Go check it out if you doubt me.

It is irrelevant who can or cannot apply equal or greater amount of poison. We are the ones who get the trait, not them, our poison will be the strongest of the lot no matter how they build their chars.

the power of poison doesnt matter in the context of surpressing healing potential. also thinking in a nutshell and/or only on 1vs1 fights is also somehow fail in my opinion, thats why u should also think about your teammates or enemies.

u only forget some points

ranger already has plenty of poison sources. the trait only lets the pet apply it also regarding poison uptime, but as far i know anet, the poison will use pet condidmg for calculation.

u also forget condi cleanses on your class examples.

other classes can easily apply perma poison. necro and thief.

i think Survival of the Fittest is a bad trait, why:
1. its engourage players to use survival skills outside of its use
2. for powerbuilds the fury will not be enough for the loss of power or precision/critdmg.
3. even traited the condiremove is to low to keep up with the application

there are 2 possible situations where it could be good (fury+qz or fury at trait keen edge trait) but not for raw dmg builds. for hybrids maybe.

1/4 isnt exactly long. all whats need is more reliable hit rate.

instant cc are cancer. look at decap engi!

ThiBash.5634:

The reason why this is a problem can be seen from the following:

Before the change, an ele had the option to use an on-kill stack sigil on a different staff, and then swap to different staff once the stack was filled. They would keep the stack until they got defeated, which essentially gave them the effect of 2 sigils.

In the new situation, the ele can equip a on-kill stack sigil next to their regular combat sigil. The net result is the same: 2 sigils.

Meanwhile, the greatsword warrior (who also had a single sigil) now can use the on-kill stack sigil on his alternate set and get 2 combat sigils on his main weapon. This means he effectively gained an extra sigil.

And that is why this change will nerf eles instead of buffing them.

first of all. what u describe after the patch is already in game in pvp.

second your warriors “alternate set” is not an alternate set! seems you have problems understand that other classes need more weaponsets.

Black Box.9312:

hooma.9642:

so this thread is about: “i ignored the class-philosophy and picked a guard but wanted a warrior in secret”?

No. I have a warrior, and I find it boring as hell. I prefer the playstyle of guardian, but I just got tired of not being able to keep up with anything because of a silly design philosophy.

so u have a suv but it is boring and the ferrari is just more fun to drive. but cause stupid design philosophy of ferrari u cant drive with them off-road. ???

seems reasonable