Guild Wars 2

…. actually those reasons are mostly hot air IMHO… it worked before and matches weren’t worse those times.

Lots of players queuing inside HotM may “help” noob players to realize their gear has to be adjusted. Playing PvP properly then still isn’t encouraged by that – as we all currently see.

No chance I would endure waiting for almost 30 mins in a boring lobby to get the nice kitten matches one half of us are now forced to play :/

I feel a little sorry that that maybe will make your queue even longer, but that can’t helped…

… as I heard about the new matchmaking ideas for season 2, I was initially relieved a little.

The phrase “and then match you with players similar to your skill” sounded like I finally wouldn’t have to carry sad players out of spawn towards a win…

But then I got a reality check, stopping me hard: how on earth is the algorithm A-net uses for long now able to determine my “skill”.
It failed for months to determine personal skill of many players in a game for teams. How is that algorithm able to factor in team compositions correctly to calculate “my personal skill”?

Answer is simple: IT. CAN’T.FOR.KITTENS.SAKE!

Evidence: lots of posts on this forum and examples of matches ingame.

It’s almost like those “luck accounts” lootwise in PvE. If your MMR is fresh by playing on a new account or you haven’t killed your MMR by playing for three years, learning the game and then teaching others to play, playing against invincible odds on offtime or just generally keep on playing after loosing many matches in a row – it is mostly unrelated to your personal skill, if you win or loose in season 2 then.

Otherwise the experience for the same person playing on different accounts would be the same and not literally the opposite, if it actually were skill-related.

I rest my case and GW2-PvP in season 2 altogether… I doubt I will come back in season 3, my hope for other games with proper PvP being released till then exceeds my hope for A-nets devs being able to properly design a PvP-environment by far now… :/

… at least those “!!!” indicate something like that

Apart form that: I you don’t want to stay in league/ranked play, just stop queuing for it. A-net does not force you to play PvP at all!!!!!!!!! (“!” used for better understanding)

… this isn’t a solo-game!

So if you are stuck in MMR-hell and still think you believe in higher divisions, form a team and work to get out there (teams get an MMR-buff AFAIK, so your left-over team places will more likely be filled with better MMR-players due to new MM in season 2).

If you still think you should be able to carry a team of 5 by your skillful play alone (or get carried by 4 players yourself), ranked play in league is clearly nothing for you – move on, there is nothing to see here

BTW, I am last tier emerald, my two teammates made it into sapphire already (they play more often), and we experience pretty balanced matches since 3 days. Winning and Loosing in most matches were caused by either our team or the opponent team made slightly more/less mistakes than the others.

Compared to season 1 (where I was about to quit GW2 completely more than one time), this season 2 is quite a blast (although there are lots of things that still could be improved).

… I agree with some parts of what you said.

Actually, an addition to the current MMR in leagues to put your opponents MMR into matching too would improve experience for the lesser skilled players.

But every better player would have to endure amber forever (exaggerating here), and we would actually have about three divisions of every jewel: an amber division of pro players, an amber division of mid tier players, an amber division of beginners (same goes for every other jewel).

All of them would sport an amber jewel/ruby/diamond…, but no one would know, which where the better players (kind of what we have now from season 1).

That would make any league system obsolete – in other words, everyone has now a non-determining dragon-rank-finisher. There is no skill related. So why leagues then.

Reward tracks are for people that want to advance just by playing.
League should be for people who want to know how far they can get and to secure they don’t have to endure matches with uneven odds 24/7/12.

And A-net decided to invent instead of copy already working systems, so we are basically all paying beta-testers regarding leagues.

If playing sucks, we just have to stop playing – it still is a game, not work for a living.

vulneraria.4865:

so you don’t read….how i can win a match where all ppl of a team have superior skill of my team?
we lose 500-100 or we win 500-100 if i face a team of 850 mmr…
all these matches are simply not fair.

… you can’t. And you shouldn’t.

You will have to wait until things settle a bit, then you will get matched with other 850s against 850s. As all 1050 have left your division.
Keyword is patience, as this season 2 is actually a season 1, regarding matchmaking at start.

If they stick with that MMR-method in season 3 and adjust it so that your placement in division of season 2 will somewhat carry over, you will have more even match-ups in season 3 right from the start.

But there will never be a guarantee of leaving amber – apart from constantly improving your skilllevel – which will help you this season only after the better players left your division, and in season 3 from the start, as the better players won’t start in amber with you…

This is as clear as I am able to make myself on this forums. Any confusion left won’t be able to be removed by me, I am sorry.

… what we have to acknowledge is, that season 1 was kind of “beta”-league with a bad placement-system (yep, I am looking at you, MMR-abuser, Stronghold-farmer and legendary-grinder).

They did significant changes to MM for season 2, so our standings in season 1 don’t mean kitten regarding our “skill”.

As soon as we realize that, serenity will kick in

… help yourself

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/PvP_Matchmaking_Algorithm

And regarding the Glicko-hell: at least now you have a real chance of pulling yourself out of it instead of being constantly dragged down to hell by bad teammates like in previous season.
You have to be patient though, and playing for hours and hours whil experiencing loss streaks won’t net you the progress you got in season one – for many (obvious) reasons.

… whats wrong with not having everything handed to players on day 1 of season?

Nobody of us has enough experience in current matchmaking for season 2 to do any valid conclusion about the quality of match-ups.

Glicko 2 MMR is statistics – statistics is the science of LARGE numbers.

Large in terms of 100s and 1000s of matches played.
And because season 2 does not take into account any former placement of season 1, only the MMR (likely spoiled for lots of diamond and legendary-grinders) for your first pairings with teammates, you are more likely to get matched with bad players, cause PvP of GW2 is full of casuals.

… across the forums, there are similar threads that explain, but I suggest looking here first:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/stop-saying-MMR-is-not-used/first#post6005067

Scroll up to the top, reading that link there and then come back and read that whole thread too. It should make things more clear.

… @vulneraria: to be qualified to make that statement, you first would have to know my match-ups and playstyle and – more important – understand how MMR in this season works, and with what intention.

Your answer here and in other threads clearly shows ME, you don’t (no offense meant)

Just an example: this system does not work with 10 given players, but rather tries to draw from a bigger pool, so lopsided matchs will happen less as soon as the season go further.
If there were only 10 players, then your assumptions would be valid indeed.

… quite the opposite for me.

At least I can have an actual impact in most games, as no one can carry four beginners to victory.
Now my teammates seem close enough to my MMR and more matches end close in score (slightly in my favor, so I suppose to gain some more pips before my “ascension” will come to a stop), lopsided matches seem to begin happen more rare now for me.

It’s not perfect, but for me far better than the old one.

… @Teutos: given the fact, the season lasts long enough, and everybody will play 24/7, then yes

But if not, there will be a separation of players, resulting in even match-ups throughout the divisions with only really slow division-progression happening the further the season goes – at least in theory.

And that is ok for a season – not everyone is bound to play around the top…

And yes, number of matches played is a factor – statistical one of the more important to get a stable MMR via Glicko 2.
Also number of players available to draw from (which is a problem in GW2).

Apart from that, lots of these posts from the last few days would be unneccessary, if A-net would actually decide to show the MMR in some table/match report, the win/loss-prediction of the past match-up and the MMR-gain/loss regarding that past match-up.

At least some of our “legendary-30-losses-in-a-row-clearly-not-my-fault”-posters would know more about their problem, and we ALL didn’t have to guess about matchmaking-failures, as obvious flaws would be obvious then…

… it’s “vocal minority”…

Nowhere near to the number of all players that play ranked will come to the forums to tell their experiences.

Only those that are upset enough will come, and maybe some of the lucky ones to share their experience.
Majority of players just plays and even doesn’t bother to read this forum…

On a more constructive note: I myself experienced some win streaks through amber, in last two tiers got a loss streak, tried it the other day, got emerald, then a little win streak, but mostly 50/50 matches, stopped playing after realizing loss streak is about to commence due to player-prime-time was over and pool to draw from has diminished.

Works out good so far. Me thinks, my experience is not that different from a lot of players not coming to forums to post about.

Krysard.1364:

Im mid sapphire and I’ve been struggling for ~10 matches on the same tier, being matched with and agaisnt ppl of similar skill

… seems like a working MM for me then

… because then you would never progress, because in every division there would be even matches form the start – all of you would stay amber forever (exaggerating a bit).

The system how it’s made this season shall allow good players to climb divisions up fast, so lower divisions are let alone, having even matches AFTER initial season start.

That way in a week all players get even matches in their division (in theory).

So if I am not a pro player, I won’t be matched against a pro player any more in a week, as he will most likely be some division above me.
AND I won’t have to be paired with beginners that hav to be carried out of spawn every single match either – because they are most likely some divisions below me.

From there, matches start to be fun then.

For further information, you may also want to look at:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/stop-saying-MMR-is-not-used/first#

… answer is: playerbase.

For more information:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/stop-saying-MMR-is-not-used/first#post6005067

… @vulneraria: just educate yourself about MMR in this season 2 – it’s not intended to be like you suggest – and that is finally some move into the correct direction IMHO.

Divisions will DIVIDE players skillwise on the long run – which is good, because you play with – and at some point AGAINST – player similar to your skill-level.
MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.

Regarding that, search this forum for keywords like “reward path”, “reward track”, that could enlighten you as well…

For further information:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/stop-saying-MMR-is-not-used/first#post6005067

… I even renamed the ranks in my PvP-guild to resemble the word “pip” in every rank there.
Me and my mates find it funny :P

And OP does clearly show some salt-level (which I don’t get it where it came from) instead of having done a little research to get the various meanings of the buzz-word “pip”, which most of them actually are very good explanations for using it in GW2 for division ranking too.

And P.S. I am no native English speaker too – but that doesn’t prevent me from doing some research

And P.P.S. “pip” are also used to describe the little dots you see on radar or sonar, glowing up to show that something (you don’t know what in some cases) got hit by the scanning rays…

Nerifes.4931:

They royally screwed this season with their “new and improved” system.

I’m at the point where if I’m at 0 pips to lose in a tier, I give up if I see the match is obviously going nowhere.

… you see the problem?

I will help: “nowhere” is by far an overestimated term in GW2 – you can often make a comeback – not if you choose to give up while match still is going on…

And what lots of player forget: GW2-PvP is a TEAM game – you are not supposed to solo carry four solo players or get carried solo by another four players.

Finally, the MMR-algorithm this season is on a way to do what a league-system is meant to do.

Lopsided match-ups will hopefully diminish in the next few days, and I will gladly play with teammates SIMILAR to my skill, have funny close matches in WHATEVER division the game determined me to stay skillwise – it’s not a reward track after all…

Teutos.8620:

Next ‘target’ should be:

• Scrapper Survivability

… NOOOOOOOO

Just kidding, I main engi and find it ridiculous myself that I even got some things baseline on scrapper with patch of January without having to trait for it, resulting in even more power-creep…

… I dont’ get it why solo-players even choose foefire… it is a noob-farm-area. Lots of your matches were foefire – that explains something. (I don’t say it is your fault you had to play this map, mind me!).

As I see you are playing a thief, on foefire you have a hard time to help your team winning the match, because all 3 nodes are reached easily by everyone – you biggest strength (mobility to decap) is kind of useless on this map.
So your team basically fight kind of 4vs5 – not because you are skillless (I have no idea about that), but just because your choice of class on this map.

Now include the probability of getting bad teammates and good opponents (which still happens a lot right now), and you get your explanation – which may be as good as every other reason as far as I am concerned…

Just stop playing and come back a few hours/a day later – playerbase changed and you will likely break your loss streak

… as I said in another thread: divisions DIVIDE players regarding their skill level (at least in a few days).

You are not supposed to move up divisions like on a reward track just by playing enough games.
If you want to move up, get better – and you will be paired with players similar to your skill level (defined by your MMR, not pip-number – which will be closer to each other in a few days regardless) and matched against other players similar to your pip level (+/- 7 pips) regardless of their MMR – given the fact there are even enough people queuing when you are.
If not, you get what is out there or have to wait 4 hours

… over all, it sorts out kind of quite fine now.

But there is a clear daytime, when matches start to get down the drain due to getting paired with players way below my personal skill level (that’s at least how I see it, but I might be mistaken nevertheless).

I could even match my watch on that time – so I call it the “moron-time”. I stopped playing then yesterday (which was better than the experience I got on Tuesday, while I was holding on – matches got worse every minute.

So there clearly is some kind of “prime-time” where playerbase is large enough for MMR to select me decent teammates.
After that, the MMR will take, whatever is there – with obvious results.

Conclusion: as of now, MM is better than season 1 for me, I will have to wait a few more days to give a final conclusion though.

… people seem still not getting it – which is kind of a-nets fault, because no one really knows how the system defines ones skill-level because of not showing it.

But finally the intention of the new system is clear (at least to me):

1. You won’t get carried out of your misery forever just because you get paired with better players than you are.
2. You won’t have to carry players out of their misery forever because you get paired with worse players than you are.

How does that work?

Divisions actually DIVIDE playerbase skillwise (not now, but in a few days it will be more obvious).

If you want to move up through division, you actually have to get better, which means (as you are matched with players the same skill level) that you have to improve your personal skill, helping your team to win, raise your MMR and thus get paired with slightly more skilled players.

If you are not good enough to do that, you obviously belong into that division.

The division system is not meant to be ANOTHER REWARD PATH allowing yout to move up TILL LEGENDARY LOOT-TIERS without personal effort

This system only has two obvious “flaws” right now:

A) right now there have been done too few matches for everyone to let the MMR-algorithm clearly define, with whom you should get paired with – that will eventually sort out in the next days.

B) GW2-PvP-playerbase is really small for a system like Glicko-MMR to be really relieable – if no one queues the same time with you, you will eventually get, what is out there – with strong deviation to your skill level (up and down).

As GW2 is really CASUAL, the mass of weak PvP-players is much more bigger than the “mass” of strong players – thus giving you more morons in your team with higher probability.

Either that or the MMR-algorithm would have you waiting 4 hours to get a game.

B) is almost solely in the hand of a-net and their development-decisions – nothing you can do kitten about.

So I have a suggestion here for all those players out there experiencing bad teammates and lots of losses:

Just play until your 3rd loss in a row. Then stop playing for some time ranked (more than a few minutes, usually a day is fine).
You only lost maximum 3 pips in the new league system.
Come back the other day, it is more likely to win now, as the playerbase is another one than when you were starting to get losses.
You are more likely bound to earn a win now (statistics).
You will gain 2 pips.

Do the math: you made 4 matches, lost 3 matches and 3 pips, won 1 match and 2 pips, only lost 1 pip in conclusion.
Not that bad, don’t you think?!

… a few days ago a friend came up with a really nice warrior build.
It is able to wrack havoc on almost any class with decent sustain – it needs good situational understanding and map awareness/movement in fights to be effective, admittedly.

So when I play it, I get flamed in teamchat by our chat-heroes (the ones that achieve more in chat than actually in the match, you all know them), afterwards the enemy flames after getting killed… I can live with that.

This does not show my skill but rather the poor understanding of lots of players about the term “meta” (class/build whatever).

Unless being in pro-games, build is not as important as teamplay and team synergy, good rotation and map-awareness.

Skills most copy-pasta-meta-players are still far away from achieving them. No legendary backpack will show that

… I accompanied you lots of hours on your road to legend on twitch and congratulate you for finally having reached your goal. It was a rough ride most of the times (and all matches I witnessed were solo).

Have fun there now

… would have been so much easier for A-Net, if the FIRST post from John would have included a line like “HoT-release will be a rough time and most likely affect WvW (stability etc.) too. To be able to address any issues related to Xpac-release to provide as less hassle as possible for the players, we will move Friday reset night to Saturday. This shifting will be TEMPORARY until things settle down. We will collect data meanwhile to consider the best time for future resets as soon as release-bugs affecting WvW have been sorted out.”

For sure, we still would have been able to read complaints from some players, but I doubt, we would have gotten an already 14 pages thread this way.

But no, A-Net came with lots of other arguments, which can only be seen as sorry excuses for a horrible idea – and I don’t understand, why they haven’t addressed the issue right in the first place.

And having shifted the reset temporarily to Saturday, I am almost sure, after a few weeks, people would have adjusted and there would have been not so big a problem for A-Net to call that shifting “fixed” after that period of time.

Whoever decides things like this in the WvW-area of the game, does not seem to be very forward-thinking – at least that’s the impression I get from following through all! of this threads pages…

… yes, and they will be shaped like bird-foodprints …

Just kidding :P

While I like the revealed design to a certain extent, I really hope they will add more martial skins for the other legendaries.
As some user said on page 1: just try for “male”, or more martial designs.
Maybe go into some museum of medieval art and actually have a look at them weapons…

I don’t wanna wield something, which also could be found in a womans handbag or be a prop for some circus clown

… as there are even grave mistakes in the official ladder-list, I don’t expect to much from placement after end of season:

https://leaderboards.guildwars2.com/de/eu/wvwgold

They even can’t get the numbers of matches/places right for some servers, so …

Apart from that, using Glicko-rating for match-up decisions, and score points for last standings would be somewhat inconsistent, because Glicko-rating gives you often harder match-ups, while in lesser tiers there would be a 1st place achieved much easier.

In other words, your server possibly could do well the whole season, staying in upper tiers (often bey rating instead of points) and in the last weeks others (who played in lesser tiers) get the better/easier last match-ups because of lesser Glicko-rating and end up with more points.

For me, I have no real idea, how standings will be determined in the end, but I fear, they won’t reflect the “performance” of most servers during the season correctly

… I can’t help myself but to post this:

100% means 100%! Deal with it

… yep, it was hours of running against Hills and Garrison and still catching only bloody noses, as you guys defended hard despite the dual attack locations.

We got our share of bags from you, but I assume, you got more from us than we from you

… then you may experience some disappointment

The school holidays will last two more weeks, so if that was the only reason for us to ascend (which I doubt in all honesty), you will have to be patient another 14 days, before we will go down :P

… “they were found in our Bay, in the walls and also in the ground.” – Tell me, then, what you mean when you write that down? It is clearly an accusation regarding their (assumed) location.
“Observations” should be verbalized more objectively – at least when all you are able to provide is a screenshot, that clearly shows only nameplates all over the place, but nothing else.

BTW, I am not a [TIA]-member, but I don’t like open name-calling in any form.
The OP may have asked his “question” somewhat objective, but the next poster jumped the train and clearly worded an accusation of them glitching into fortifications and capping them. Without any proof, just an allegation.
And that’s what I dislike about the post from the OP – such name-calling leads to wild accusations all over the place.
If someone observes “strange” behavior, just file a report to A-net, no need to call names on the official forums…

… I want the new trial culling mechanism back!
I almost never ran into invisible zergs, when it was inplace, and having invisible allies could be countered by looking at my mini-map.

Now I lead my squad into hordes of invisible players again, which is outright silly and renders (haha, pun intended) any tactic useless!

… only those who don’t understand advanced tactics and the idea of WvW rely on zergs and have no other ideas of warfare present.

Almost every answer/option in WvW is already given by posters above.

I only can emphasize one point: everyone in WvW make a difference to the outcome: the brainless zerg-player (he adds to zergs and thus to bad tactics, now helping his opponents by making his own allies dumber) and the tactical versatile player who breaks off larges groups, fights in smaller groups and does Quaggan-, supply-, Dolyak- and defend-events (he adds to battlefield control and thus inspires others to think ahead of zerg-tactics).

So yes, YOU make the difference

… never experienced real “spawn camping” in WvW ever.

To OP:
You can’t spawn camp in this game in WvW (other than sPVP), as that means “staying right beside the spawn point of an enemy and kicking his butt, best while he even needs to load the world around him.”

In GW2 WvW, your spawn point is far away and heavily guarded, there is no chance for your enemy to kill you right off spawn.
There are also three ways out of your spawn area, that branch off in some other ways too.
I doubt one can close all of that ways to effectively prevent you from leaving spawn (which would suck but would still not be spawn camping).

Please be sure about what you are writing and using the correct terms – and in additon think of ways to counter a playstyle of your enemies (there are many solutions out there for almost any given situation).

… I think that removing the option to get revived after finished off in WvW has some appeal, at least if they implement a timer. So if your mates are fast enough to give you a rezz back from death, they should be able to do so, but if that timer runs out, you should only be able to port (or be ported automatically) to your spawn point.

That would not break the downed-state, but would make some tactics more valuable and reduces the effectiveness of random zergs.

If I remember correctly, WAR used such a mechanic on therir RvR-territory.