Guild Wars 2

lets go! ~Edit~

Blackjack.5621:

If you have to run a guardian there is also something wrong with the game.

Most top teams are running guard ele war mesmer thief in europe so we have a good diversity. The Na scene seems to be abit more condition heavy.

Indeed, but the cheese comp doesn’t require half of the skill a burst lineup needs, as soon as the ppl realize that the Meta will change…

it allready starting, Anet hurry please, decent nerf or delete it temporary…

Teams are allready running those cheese comps, you will see it at the start of tog, other teams will think about changing roster again and than you have your cheese game completed.

3 ele 2 engi maybe a warrior, TO is right, u dont even need a guardian, one point maybe wrong, not 4 celestial builds, just use only celestial ones….

For a spectator it will be for example if cheese mode plays versus them self!?

Most boring kitten to watch and play, do something…..

nothing more to say, delete!

Hey guys,

unfortunately i couldn’t find a decent Team to play so i decided forming an own, once again.

What iam looking for:

Guardian
Ele
Engi
Thief
Warior

Standard role, nothing special. My last Team stopped playing a year ago, direct after condi kitten release… The game seems more playable compared due the last year so i’ll give it a try again.

We are extremely [ugly] played on Top 3 EU, but i dont think that its possible atm with current playerbase so we’ll see how it goes.

If you are interested let me know, only searching 4 spots, War or Engi will make it….

regards

Mufasa

are you planning to make the teams players roster visible? tbh i dont know 90% of the teams in the eu bracket…

Ye simple as that….

Keep in mind this is a PVP Event in general, so why should pve’ers get a tournament slot instead of a pvp Team?

There is only one Way to select a number of deserved participation, and thats the broken leaderboard….

You’re planning to start the tournament with 16 Teams one day, so at least its possible to select 32 teams for this Event.

The first matches will be held by the Teams personally, that means at this time you throw out the brackets each Team “leader” recieve an Email with the information and contact of his first match enemy Team.

Teams than have time till1 day before the main Event starts, 8pm for example, to complete their first match. It will be a 1-round single elimination on Forest of Nifhel. Winning Teams take a screenshot and send it to an specified Admin.

How to choose:

You have all 5 Accounts from each Team, that may be a bit work but lets be honest, thats the only “fair” decision could be done.

Go into the Leaderboards, (Team Q only tbh), and sum all the ranks of a signed Team together (1+2+3+4+5) /5 = Team rank.

Your 32 best Teams are able to participate at the tournament. Than split your brackets that you’ll have the most enjoying matchups on your stream and main event day, same as you did at the ESL every week.

Information:

You force the teams to practise from now till the event starts, if a averaged rank 300 Team is winning 10 matches they will race up huge so “outranked” guys still have a chance to get an slot in the tournament… If any Pve players that didnt played Team q at all at the moment are thinking they have a chance winning some of these rewards it would be no problem for them to get into top 100 Leaderboards in one Week…. fair enough. Otherwise people just get farmed 500:XX and in general a totally boring tournament.

++++closed++++

Hi guys,

the last 8 month until my Team disbanded i played only randomly with friends. I got a little bit more time and want start playing a bit more serious again…

I wouldn’t call this "try"a “competetive” Team, but maybe in a few weeks, depends on how it works with the current very low playerbase….. For now i just want to find 4 people to play with regulary.

I prefer playing with guys i allready know from the past, many left but there are still some out.

I dont care about any ranks you have or dont have…. here are some fix requirements.

Play time in general:

SO,MO,WED,THUR 07pm – 11pm CET (you should be able to play more than 2 hours a day…)

classes

undefined, will check a working lineup after getting full roster. You should at least be able to multiclass.

experience

Must have, i dont want to explain anything about tactical gameplay. i dont care about your solo Q rank, you should just know what to do.

I dont want to play at an leaderboard rank between 20-100 or some kitten, if its not possible to find some guys for top 15 i will just leave it again. There are only a few teams out, its not a goal to play in top 50 for me :-)

If you are interested contact me only via PM or ingame.

Mufasa

the dev’s need around a half year to finally implement such things, so relax

wondering!!!???

awesome dude! allready forgot the most one

Sensotix.4106:

silentnight warrior.2714:

If people read all the posts they will notice that it was the OP who wanted to know why i said that in what comes in risk vs reward, mesmers are in need of more balance than warriors. thats when people started talking about mesmers.

This is a topic about warriors. But what you will say about warriors aside of Healing Signet being to strong at the moment?

Op already said that it was not the damage that made warriors the ultimate war machine. So its the stances? Dont think so because only when Healing Signet was buffed people started to fear warriors. So i dont agree when he says things like:

“Bersercer’s Stance – immunity to conditions for quite a long time (no risk for pressing one skill – surviving 100% reward)” – With this one you can still take damage. you have to use endure pain at the same time to get some sort of invul, but you will get CC so you need to user all defensive stances you have to be safe for 4-5 seconds only (because EP dont last 8-10 seconds).

This is one statement that made me think about the risk in other classes and mesmer (one more time) has advantage against warrior in that department. “But this post is only about warriors….”

“Cleansing ire (cleansing with a chance of 100% on longbow, not even having to hit the condi cleanse 0% risk – 100% reward)” – There are other classes that dont need to hit to get rid of conditions too. “But this post is only about warriors….”

“Lets take a burst setup – you spike the warriors from stealth
Warrior: if he reacts fast enough he can basically survive with around 60% health using Endure pain (making it possible for him to disengage) (no risk for pressing one skill – surviving – 100% reward)” – That is how all the get of jail free cards works on every profession, you should know that better than anyone because you play the classes you said you play, by the way (i know this post is about warriors only, but just let me say this one) how the blurred frenzy is worst than this skill?

And then after OP said this:
“so you basically take a lot of damage from retal when using blurred frenzy and then you take even more damage while being very squishy? i see your point but i think we would have to modify that for each class”

So in this case Blurred frenzy its OK? Because i only have immunity as warrior if i use all my stances and i have a 60 sec CD for have the same effect after. You can do this every 10-12 seconds without using a single utility slot (but this is about warriors i know.)

So if ANet nerfed the wrong things about warrior, lets start a discussion here about warriors:

Question: Should ANet reverse the nerfs they made and nerf the real problem (Healing Signet)?
If so, what are your sugestions to do that?

change the game to where it was 9 months ago nerf mesmer and ele and everybody is happy

nope…

change it into it was 6 month ago and nerf bm ranger and node engi, buffing nec A BIT and thats it

Warriors broken
Rangers broken
necros broken
engis broken
thief broken

GG

easiest counter shatter mess… constant boon remove, protec trait while stunned never proc condi immun doesnt help… nr.3 thief the same gg

But i think exactly this will happen. If you look at the class mechanics many facts are going into this direction. We never had a really mixed Meta, ofcourse this… That is why it’s hard to balance for reaching such a target.

At the moment the engi also is a pretty strong viable class, the Ranger as well in general. Rangers and warriors are fine in a role like back node’s and 1v1 beast’s, but it’s the wrong way if they can get awesome grp support and still be able to run a extremly strong 1v1 spec. Like we saw in past, the best examples are ele’s and messmer’s.

Warriors are strong NOW, i never dinied this. Again, your theory works in my opinion only well in one current map, that is legacy. On Temple and Kyhlo there are to many ways for disengage, it will take the war to much time to follow all over the ledges… About Forest i wont talk, cause forest midpoint a war can nearly do nothing again Necros spamming from the ledges and if using the worm port you are not able to deal with it. Thief is much better in this situations at all.

I think once the MEta is viable without a Necro in, the warrior will not be able to catch his foes anymore, ppl are forced to use stunbreakers and toughness, and in general the warrior lacks against power builds, your 100b does not the damage you need if you land it once. Best example is a guardian, it needs years for a 100b war to kill it, at least ur not able to kill a good one.

But you are right, against a necro this build is still the best counter, it’s the only class which you can enjoy fighting against a necro, cause he can’t do anything against the war… but its only the necro..

Mrbig.8019:

prozon.3561:

Nerf Hammer? by nerfing only 2 abilities of a broken class? not really…

I mean it’s ridiculous give the thief all you can get in one spec, there has to be some deficit in this build also, and a thief will still be able to deal much dps IF he spec for it with a S/D setup. More dps less surviva or the opposite, thats the thing this spec should roll for.

I discribed 2 little nerfs on this spec, a nerf hammer looks something different…

And again, the warrior’s mechanik is not viable in tpvp… Why is the Warrior working at the moment? Ppl run mindless condi spammers without stunbreakers, it’s a meal for an warrior. But once the Meta will change, the war will get eaten so hard again…

It is an option for back point, like BM ranger was in the past, but thats all. The war has 0 Team abilities unless you play with banners. So tell me why people should run a warrior? The elementalist is better in all points if a condi nerf will income. Will be able to replace the Ranger on back node if CC neither gets the hardly needed nerf.

You wanted to bring down a dps ability by 50%. This is what i could descrive as a “nerf hammer” just like they did in the past with dancing dagger ( and we all know the state of that skill).

As i said, i believe there’s no way to nerf S/D without bringing the whole set down, still you completely missed the point of S/D opness: an S/D thief is capable to snowball simply due to Inf strike making the thief able to port everywhere.

No enemi will ever escape from the thief, no repositioning on ledges allowed, Inf strike will get you no matters what.

Flanking evade is not OP, Larcenous is strong but not gambreaking: Inf strike is.

If you, as a mesmer, didn’t understand this then i bet nobody will aside thieves, since mesmers are the ones getting trained so bad by this skill.

Regarding warrior, as long as they have strong CCs, they’ll still be viable.

Again, if the meta shifts, berserker stance won’t be kept as a must have, and cleansing ire will be more than enough.

You will basically have good old burst wars with nothing more than 200 less power and 10% less damage on GS, with ridicolous sustain a 4 secs stun on skull crack to chain CC and burst a foe down ( this coupled with a good banner ress).

And CC wars will still be viable.

All packed in a tanky build with blocks and good toughness.

You’re seriously underrating the warrior

The problem is this CC build needs to stay near your foe all the time. The sustain dmg of this build lack huge in teamfights ofcourse normally ur not able even to land it. As i said, in small fights, 1v1 and 2v2 the war will be nice but anything else this class gives for team support is rezing… The war has huge issues vs power based sustain dps specs, once the meta shift for example gs Messmer the war will be more worse than a elementalist for example. Lack of AOE, has only single Target CC and DPS, cause nobody near your skullcracked foe will sit in your 100b… thief will ever be the master of chasing one guy.

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046:

What do you think will happen if a Necro or any other condition based class at least has to think WHEN to use a condition like “cripple” “chill” “poison” “torment” “weakness” on your enemy, and not like nowadays just SPAM it all out?

To be honest, i play dagger warhorn/axe focus because i despise spam. wells scepter and staff are not in my repetiore because frankly.. its boring and yes a bit thoughtless.. but taking out fear and the triats going with it wont help the “spam”.

Why i answered you is mostly because you Are on a learderboard and apparenlty that means something. and since you want to take out the entire fear/DS mechanic and trait line on necro i just had to post.

I don’t want to take it out, just put it in a good state. So your build wont be touched as much as the famous szep/dag staff. The condis are too much and to long duration, cripple your foe by 10-15seconds…

thats rediclious. 100% poison and weakness uptime, you cant force players to use any kinds of power builds until this is still in the game.

dont compare apples with pears, Usain bolt is the fastest man over the world but twice he isn’t the best Boxer :-)

Quake,CS…. and a MMO…. GG

Ur not on the boards, never heard of you, y you might have no clue of the szene in THIS game. Isn’t it?

E:

NB: funny how you post discuss at the end of your post then use comebacks as .. you are not on a rank so your opinion doesn’t count.. good comeback ..

I allready removed this since you answered

Again 2 answer from: Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046 not found in the lb
SpehssMehreen.5897 not found in lb

Casuals, please, PLEASE stop arguing, you are ruining the hole game cause any sorts of devs are listen to ur unqualified comments again and again. You have no clue how this game work in any competitive state… PVP can’t be balanced around 90% of the people, the 10% is the key factor!!!

You have no, really NO clue whats going on, this post isn’t made for necro fanboys… even if it’s hard, you should ignore it…

I know the warrior CC is also a broken OP kitten… but i also know once the Meta changed warrior will not be used anymore, only reasson i didn’t go in details here.

@merlin, i wont answer all your points, i give you only once:

What do you think will happen if a Necro or any other condition based class at least has to think WHEN to use a condition like “cripple” “chill” “poison” “torment” “weakness” on your enemy, and not like nowadays just SPAM it all out?

Nerf Hammer? by nerfing only 2 abilities of a broken class? not really…

I mean it’s ridiculous give the thief all you can get in one spec, there has to be some deficit in this build also, and a thief will still be able to deal much dps IF he spec for it with a S/D setup. More dps less surviva or the opposite, thats the thing this spec should roll for.

I discribed 2 little nerfs on this spec, a nerf hammer looks something different…

And again, the warrior’s mechanik is not viable in tpvp… Why is the Warrior working at the moment? Ppl run mindless condi spammers without stunbreakers, it’s a meal for an warrior. But once the Meta will change, the war will get eaten so hard again…

It is an option for back point, like BM ranger was in the past, but thats all. The war has 0 Team abilities unless you play with banners. So tell me why people should run a warrior? The elementalist is better in all points if a condi nerf will income. Will be able to replace the Ranger on back node if CC neither gets the hardly needed nerf.

Messmer

First i want to say that any phantasm builds in my opinion have nothing to do in a competetive pvp. This builds are still viable in 1v1’s and hotjoins and so on, and could be used by ppl who actually like it to play. In general i think pet and AI based specs is nothing for competetive pvp and enjoyable matches for people to watch.

The Messmer in case is not in this bad state many ppl are complain about. The major problem of this class in my opinion is the Illusion traitline. Messmers general lack only in point of condition removal, the only usefull and very strong ability is the “shattered conditions” trait.

But here comes the problem, there is actually not one viable spec for using it, ofcourse Messmer need the shatters, therefore it is a must have for each kind of build (condi clear support shatter, burst shatter..) to put in at least 20 points in “duelling” for the non plus ultra trait deceptive evasion.

For any kind of shatter builds you need 30 points in illusions. Major problem Grandmaster trait illusionary persona. This trait is too important, you need it as well as decep evasion. Now you cannot even use the shattered conditions trait, ofcourse grandmaster as well. plus illu persona compared with shatered conditions doesnt work, its bugged. Shattered conditions only work by summoned illusions not from the Messmer it self.

To fix this, maybe remove the shattered conditions from GM to Master traitline AND nerf it this way to prevent OP’ness:

The trait nowadays effects conditional removing when illusions gets destroyed, removes a condition when a illusion dies, not when it dies by hitting the target. Enemy dodges your shatter, but condis will be still removed. Fix this by switching the trait to the master line and give it the handicap your illusions at least have to hit your enemy to trigger the condi removal!

Greatsword

The Dps this weapon deal is a bit over the tops, some small decreases should not be a problem.

Elementalist

The ele got hard nerfs in the past few months, in the current Meta a DPS burst ele can’t survive neither a bunker support one. To much CC is throwing out at the moment, by the cantrip stunbreak nerfs to the ele at least these builds are no longer viable. Blink will prevent your from incoming burst but not from the condi spam. Mistform also useless in the condi Meta…

Cleansing fire should be a stunbreaker, if you face up against a strong condition based team the ele should be also available by breaking a CC lock if he is forced to run condition removal.

If the condi Spam gets tuned down in general, the only thing ele really needs is to fix the dps. Refresh air is incredible strong, compared with lightening strike over the tops.

Thief

The sword dagger thief needs nerf to at least 1 ability. This has to be the dmg output. If you want to give the thief a sustain dps builds, while dodging most of the time and nearly evades 80% of incoming damage, you have to reduce the damage huge. A thief has to think what he wanna run, burst damage or sustain.

-larcenous strike: reduces damage output by 50% OR higher the initiative costs by 100% OR remove the evade from flanking strike

-AUTO-Attack also needs to be tuned down in this build.

-shadow-return: higher the INI costs up to 3.

Warrior

The warriors are a playable class at the moment. I talk consciously “playable” and not “viable”, ofcourse the only point a warrior will be used at the moment is his anti condition counter. With such a huge health pool, defense, fast condi removal+immunity and still high dps output the Warrior is a machine vs condition builds. But be carefull, you should not forget the warrior in his general mechanik is not made for competetive tpvp, once the Meta will switch to more power or even equal based lineups the warrior wil lbecome again a useless class! The mechanik wont work well in pvp, til messmer come back, burst thiefs and or elemntalist the warrior will be a easy to focus not much helpfull class again.

It’s really hard to balance this class around the META’s, Longbow/hammer war is such a squishy target and easy stomp, once the spirit ranger and necro stacking is gone this build will follow immediatly. The mace/gs stun build cant survive either, a really strong build in small fights mostly on backnodes, but isn’t able to chase enemies during bigger fights. wasted dps potential.

Just other few ideas, may some will help you at the current progres.

@devs, like many other told, it would be great if we could have some leaked patch notes before you’r planning to patch something bigger, if there is any option to share the updates before inplementing them with the com please think about it.

I want to try to give you a kind of balance idea to improve the game where you want to see it.

Many people explained it in the past year, the community dont want to run a full burst meta neither than the condi spam we have now, the solution is to find a mix spot where both specs are viable in.

What we need for success this?

- first i think many classes needs an hole overwork, the condition dmg is way too high, on the other side the survivability of these specs is not as good as need to survive for example in a burst Meta WHEN you tune down the condi dps.

- The game in general need lower CC durations, once you’r able to spam it (Warrior & Necro for example) the game completly lacks of competetive and tactical gameplay. A CC should have something to do with intelligent play and not a mindless spamming to stunlock your enemy til death.

What is need to bring back 2 viable power specs into your lineup?

Some suggestions about class balancing for a viable mixed META.

Necromancer:

- Main problem the fear chainlock dps. Necro in the past was a really fine class, the dps throwing out was quit fine, maybe a bit to low for the past survivability. Once you overloaded the Necro with all Condis in the game, the class went to S tier.

how to fix:

Traits:

Spite and curse line gives the Necro all he needs for condi burst. You have critical chance for 100 dumphire on CD and barbed precision uptime, also you get condition duration increased and power at least. All you need for the build in just 2 traitlines.

- Terror: i think the additional effect should be removed, increase dps by 50%… your enemy allways will have another condition up therefore the fear in general does to much dps, compared to a stun or daze they do zero dps… <— trait broken

- Master of terror: as i explained above, the CC duration in gerneral has to get tuned down, maybe fix the 50% duration to a 25%.

Utilities:

- signet of undead: nerf the casttime wasn’t needed, you throw the options out for using the spell anymore. No one, trust me, really nobody will use any resurection skill like this, or the elemental glyphe with an casttime 3 seconds and more… If you want to give people different specs viable we have to think logical first, the fix here would be a cast time of 2 1/4 seconds.

- signet of spike: the condi duration given out is incredible high and way over the tops. You have to remove 5 conditions at one time for not get bursted down immediately. The bleed is fine, blind and vulnear also, but than….cripple poison and weakness with such a huge uptime… weakness and cripple defently has to tune down to half of the current duration…

-plague : Plague of pestilance, the apllied weakness is way too strong, once the necro pops his elite, your enemies get hurt too much of the weak and poison spam during plague.

Death shroud

- dark path: Chill duration is too high, has to be tuned down.

-tainted shackles: Torment duration way over the tops, maybe the half amount of it’ll be fine.

szepter

-grasping dead: cripple duration has to be tuned down to the half.

-enfeebling blood: weakness duration has to be tuned down to half.

02am cest sunday

Anet allready realized it and got a hotfix which actually be tested like ally told a week ago.

Normal. Until the patch is out you are not able to do pvp

You got a custom arena 2 month, s before the rest got it. They had to pay for it also :-D

The point is pets should not have any role in competetive pvp. Pet specs are pve used and has nothing to do with pvp. Just give a 50% malus at pvp effectivnes and done. No use any more like it should.

CMstorm.8679:

Fly in on combat riding a dragon, leap from dragon with Death from Above trait: Nuclear Explosion with a 10,000 radius.

AWESOME!!! Made my day

+1 should be the next step

War works in tpvp as well as he does in solo q. The difference is you have to switch your tactic basicly. I think the most viable build is the cc monster. This build is not as good as a engi in teamfights for example but its insane in small fights. 1v1 or 2v2u have a huge advantage by running the war instead of the engi.

It’s a good idea maybe, but i think thats all. The problem is here based on your classes. Your defense abilities are too bad, your idea could only work if the enemy Team is doing what expect them to do, dps your guardian and ignoring the range spammer ele and mess.

But no serious team will do that… Staff ele and Messmer are squishy as hell.
In your showed spec’s the ele will not do much Dmg, Messmer either.

Normally the Meta runs the S/D thief, he will just eat your ele and messmer. So only by their thief one of your needed AOE spammers is completly out of the game.

0 Points in illusions your shatter skills has cooldowns like hell, a Necro will laugh about your messmer condi removal and also eat him quite easy.

A fine engineer should be easy able to stomp your war on close node, also the ranger will survive long enough vs your thief until ele or mess die at the TF.

These 2 weak classes will get presure the hole time in the teamfight, and dont forget, the enemy thief will evades 80% of the ele DPS (btw dps, he is bunker specced, the staff will do nearly zero dps) and the GS messmer i think is not really able to do much dps cause he has to run and disengage from necro the most time. You will have much better chances by ignoring the far point and use your thief where it should be, in the TF to transfer the presure at the enemies….

Ele Messmer and the warrior spec are more teamfight based, but you will still lack of DPS.

Your War spec is played by many ppl atm, but i still think the GS one is the better choice. Hammer/ longbow is nice vs a spirit ranger compared to mace/gs but worse vs engi and necro.

I think a warrior can replace the ranger on the homenode, cause rly strong in 1v1. But atm i still think you need to run a necro and thief. If you replace the nodedefend, maybe there is another option instead of ranger for the teamfight out.

sorrow.2364:

prozon.3561:

Thats simply not true, a 2nd viable spec on a class can’t exist until 1 is just OP.

Bunker ele is viable? Maybe it is at the class itself, but not in the current META. More than 2 Bunkers are bullkitten you lack to much of dps, cause a Bunker ele deals nowadays not rly much dmg compared to a faceroll Ranger with the same and even better bunker abilities atm.

So you can’t replace the Ranger with an Elementalist, 1. Ele lose vs Ranger on node, Ele lose vs Engi on node, Ele lose vs Thief on node, Ele lose vs Nec on node. there is no room to use it instead of a ranger for example for backpoint defend.

But, true, the Ele is a Teamfight based classe with alot of grp support. So if you run the Ele in your teamfight, who will sit or defend your backnode?

You still need the ranger.

You have to replace the thief, engi or necro.

Replacing the thief = nonsense, imense sustain dps by perma dodging stealth support und fast roam class in the game. —> Musthave atm

Necro: More survivabilitie with the new DS and even pleague, plus critical incredible Condi DPS which is nearly All AOE + huge amount of CC. —> absolutly must have nowadays

Engi: Nice team CC support, also AOE healing, AOE stealth, with grenade and bomb kit rly hard Condi DPS, Rez support if used. Only disadvantage very squishy Target.

You see the only class that actually can be changed is the Engi, but think about the amount of DPS you will lack of running a bunker ele instead of an engi. The condis will kitten the ele also automaticly, cause most is AOE spam. And i dont think you are able to deal enough dmg with just a Necro (which is main Focus in this lineup, so normally not able to deal this much dps) and a thief.

D/P Thief once he burstes on necros DS he has to go out spam shortbow and wait until the enemy SD thief catch him into death. GG to Bunker ele…

You’re still making confusion between optimal and viable.

Optimal means that it is the best you can run at the moment due to the meta, even in the hands of a mediocre player.
Viable means that it still performs good and in the hands of a good player can easily outperform an optimal build.

You are making it looks like that right now there are only optimal builds and every other builds are unviable, which isn’t true at all. Now, like in every other meta, there are optimal builds just like viable builds.

For instance, once D/D ele was rampant, it was the optimal build while S/D ele was viable, but not optimal.
Back after the S/D thief buff, S/D became optimal while D/P still was viable and good, but not optimal.
Another example are shatter mesmers and phantasm mesmers. One was optimal, another viable.

Most teams ran optimal builds but, still, you can see sometimes viable builds.

I can keep giving you exaples on how there always was optimal and viable builds then and now. Game variety has Always been the same and this meta changed nothing at all, except shifting for the nth time optimal-viable builds.

The only real difference between last Patches is that now Mesmers have only viable builds, but no optimal builds. This is pretty much the situation in which Necromancers and Warriors have been since launch, so this patch looks worse to you and probably other mesmers or people who are used to see mesmers as a must have in any team, but this is by far not a different patch from the Others.

To be honest, we can also see way more profession variety in the current meta compared to the older ones.

…. you dont get it, in your words, only optimal builds are viable builds in tpvp.a class can be viable by itself but also can not in a team. Gw is 100% team based. And yes i saw your variety the last 3weeks. Ranger ranger ranger necro necro necro necro guard thief.

Simply all signs against your opinion

sorrow.2364:

prozon.3561:

That’s simply not true.

Pre patch viable classes:

Ele:
bunker/support
DPS

Guard:
Bunker

Messmer:
shatter

Thief:
SD
DP

Ranger:
BM
Trap

Engi:
Nodefighter
HGH

You had 6 classes with in sum 10 viable specs pre patch, what you have now:

Guard:
bunker

Engi:
Node/grenade

Thief:
sd

Ranger:
spirit

Necro:
Terror

War:
maybe

5,5 Classes and only 5/6 viable specs! Thats only the half like pre patch my friend!

Plus, in past the only class makes sense to stack was the elementalist, nowadays you can stack Ranger’s and Necro’s. So the Meta classes decreased even more.

The difference was just pre patch it made no sense to stack classes of getting zero advantage from, there was just no “OP S-Tier” Class left.

Now you’r getting a huge advantage by using 2x ranger or 2xnecro like in past were ele was a long time the S King.

You listed viable spec in the first part and optimal in the second one.

1. Elementalist bunker/support are still viable in the current meta. PAX representations proves I’m right. There is even the insta-spike build now which is optimal in the current meta that you didn’t mentioned.
2. D/P thief is still viable. Nothing has changed. It was once overshadowed by S/D and it still is.
3. BM and Trap are pretty much the same build
4. HGH is still viable

Check your facts and make that list again. Build variety is still the same, pre and post patch.

The only things that has changed is that Mesmers are for the first time since launch out of the god-tier. This is what makes you think that this meta is worse than the others.

Thats simply not true, a 2nd viable spec on a class can’t exist until 1 is just OP.

Bunker ele is viable? Maybe it is at the class itself, but not in the current META. More than 2 Bunkers are bullkitten you lack to much of dps, cause a Bunker ele deals nowadays not rly much dmg compared to a faceroll Ranger with the same and even better bunker abilities atm.

So you can’t replace the Ranger with an Elementalist, 1. Ele lose vs Ranger on node, Ele lose vs Engi on node, Ele lose vs Thief on node, Ele lose vs Nec on node. there is no room to use it instead of a ranger for example for backpoint defend.

But, true, the Ele is a Teamfight based classe with alot of grp support. So if you run the Ele in your teamfight, who will sit or defend your backnode?

You still need the ranger.

You have to replace the thief, engi or necro.

Replacing the thief = nonsense, imense sustain dps by perma dodging stealth support und fast roam class in the game. —> Musthave atm

Necro: More survivabilitie with the new DS and even pleague, plus critical incredible Condi DPS which is nearly All AOE + huge amount of CC. —> absolutly must have nowadays

Engi: Nice team CC support, also AOE healing, AOE stealth, with grenade and bomb kit rly hard Condi DPS, Rez support if used. Only disadvantage very squishy Target.

You see the only class that actually can be changed is the Engi, but think about the amount of DPS you will lack of running a bunker ele instead of an engi. The condis will kitten the ele also automaticly, cause most is AOE spam. And i dont think you are able to deal enough dmg with just a Necro (which is main Focus in this lineup, so normally not able to deal this much dps) and a thief.

D/P Thief once he burstes on necros DS he has to go out spam shortbow and wait until the enemy SD thief catch him into death. GG to Bunker ele…

[X] Vote for nerf the hole Condi dmg by 30%, than it is where it should be. If you still want more dps, you have to spec fully into +cond dmg and lack of surviva.

Rebuild amullets, there is not one out which gives you toughness, power, precision and %krit dmg. Otherwise there shouldnt be one which gives you toughness precision and cond dmg. (cause cond dmg = power + krit ed)

alcopaul.2156:

A.NET your algorithm sucks.

solo queue

Nice example newbies (r20) beat (r40’s) by abusing the OP’ness hrhr

DevO.9854:

Firstly we don’t see the result of the 1st match, the 2nd match has nothing to do with spirit rangers, 1 team has 3 bunkers and the other has 1.

Engi’s beat up on rangers fairly well, so do theives, so can necros, even super stun warriors can beat spirit rangers.

I had to laugh some wind bag Warrior was trash talking me in a match talking about how easy a spirit ranger is to play… I mean really since when was a warrior hard to play, Warrior is not as good as ranger overall but it is no harder to play.

Infact I will say that there is no ranger setup that is hard to play…I’m sorry, we just don’t have as much gimmicks as other classes.

That is the point most ppl dont understand and exactly the reasson why the spec is op. Sure they can be beaten, but nearly onl with a perfect play by your enemy. For example, if the cc war would be in this position, think about dbl dmg from 100b and unbreakable stun effect from skulls mace. So once you land the stun ranger will be dead for sure. Thats the same point, the ranger still could win by a perfect play while never got hit by the stun. But not allowed to do a mistake.

Same with the current Meta, you can also win with a burst lineup, if you are able to kill an enemy inclusive stomping instantly in each teamfight during the hole game. And this also in 8 of 10 games. Than a burst lineup still can works, but this fact is just unhuman and wont happen anyway…

I made a thread like this a week ago, still not much changed. Solo Q or Team Que, 60% of the matches are on Temple. I Played about ~ 150 games since the patch is out. If you ask Team Que players, you get the answer that temple is 50% instead of 25% on the rotation.

Authority.6145:

• First time ran:-Dger
• I didn’t even pay attention to what I was doing
• I didn’t care what the enemy was doing
• Smashing all of my buttons all the time
• No thinking about anything for 15m

Good job Anet.

That is all.

Short version; the biggest issue is NOT meta. Its the skill floor. Its not builds. Its the classes.

You can describe it with one word. Facerolling

sorrow.2364:

saVdoom.2067:

My first 2 paragraphs are aimed mostly to the pos-necro-patch. Quite honestly previously to the patch we had a much more balanced meta.

If you look back at the top teams in NA back in that time, Ostrich’s team that won curse tournament had a necromanser, engineer, S/D thief, elementalist and guardian, 2 power, 2 condi, bunker setup. I’m not saying it was a decent/good meta for the game overall, but much better then what we have now.

TP had also the same setup with 2 condi, 2 power, bunker, with ranger, engineer, mesmer, elementalist and guardian.

Back then it was still about some mindless spamming, but atleast you could see that the elementalist used his full rotation into someone and that is why he died. You saw that berserk illusion wrecking the guy, so that is why he died, while the condi classes would support with cc’s and also keeping poison/burning into the target.

There is a good reason why back then we had 4k viewers in tournaments, while now we barely have 1.2k viewers in a tournament worth lotsa IRL money.

Pre-necro-patch the balance was as horrible as it is now, as it was since launch.

The team composition has always been one for every team with little to no variations at all. Each patch just shifted everyone’s team composition to another.

Are you saying that now you can’t see what is killing you?
Before the HGH came popular (and then Necro), there was no conditions at all. It was all about burst damage and it was a bad meta just like this meta is, don’t pretend it isn’t true.

EU PAX finals had 4k+ viewers during summer time, back then it wasn’t summer time and if there was any loss of viewers, the only thing you can blame is the loss of interest due to the constant bad meta and not specifically this one, which isn’t more bad than the old ones.

aleks.5473:

Moa can be blocked/dodge/miss and interupt it have a reletevly long cast and cd what do you want a big sing over the mesmer ’’I’M CASTING MOA DODGE
’’

Considering that Moa completely shut me down for 10s, yes.
I rather want a big moa sign over Mesmer’s head instead of a generic pink non-telegraphed animation.

That’s simply not true.

Pre patch viable classes:

Ele:
bunker/support
DPS

Guard:
Bunker

Messmer:
shatter

Thief:
SD
DP

Ranger:
BM
Trap

Engi:
Nodefighter
HGH

You had 6 classes with in sum 10 viable specs pre patch, what you have now:

Guard:
bunker

Engi:
Node/grenade

Thief:
sd

Ranger:
spirit

Necro:
Terror

War:
maybe

5,5 Classes and only 5/6 viable specs! Thats only the half like pre patch my friend!

Plus, in past the only class makes sense to stack was the elementalist, nowadays you can stack Ranger’s and Necro’s. So the Meta classes decreased even more.

The difference was just pre patch it made no sense to stack classes of getting zero advantage from, there was just no “OP S-Tier” Class left.

Now you’r getting a huge advantage by using 2x ranger or 2xnecro like in past were ele was a long time the S King.

Lupa allready explained it…

You just had a bad start in the Game… if you had won your first 12 games you will be probably the 1st in the LB…. You lost of unlucky reassons and need to climb up again. (Will takes alot of 11-0 series…) until you are getting matched with even non ranked guys…

@ OP:

The fastest and easiest way to handle such situations you are in is learning by doing.

Take the spvp hotjoin Server and feel free to test all classes, only way for understanding their mechanics and know how to counter each class/spec. You have to play it and get the feeling how this class works.

Lighter.5631:

prozon.3561:

Warrior is da new meta. Nn engi any more. You enemy run necro, just bring the war. The difference is you would also need a nec and ranger in your team:-D

Main problem of the ranger since half a year this class deals way too much dmg for his bunker abilities. And spirit ranger are so stupid easy to play…. but atm the warri brings huge cc support to take the enemys necro complete out of the game.

only if they dont target you while the enemy necro dont hide in the background and the necro dont know how to use F1

Doesnt matter, a warrior is able to stay alive since the last patch. The stances are a viable spec now, and once you’r on the necro it’s rly hard for him to get you off as quick as needed to prevent his death. I couldn’t believe it either but practise showed how it works. Thats the only positive aspect of the condi patch, war is not the worst class in the game anymore .

Warrior is da new meta. Nn engi any more. You enemy run necro, just bring the war. The difference is you would also need a nec and ranger in your team:-D

Main problem of the ranger since half a year this class deals way too much dmg for his bunker abilities. And spirit ranger are so stupid easy to play…. but atm the warri brings huge cc support to take the enemys necro complete out of the game.

played 25 matches, the half were on temple… even with the team que in 4 matches 3 were temple… :/

In solo Q it isn’t. You have to think about your’r playing 90% of the time with 2 brainless players in your team, if the oponent’s, at the moment it is the necro and ranger, got 3 of this classes + a guardian you can do what you want, in 90% your team will loss such an matchup.

It is still too easy to play a braindead spirit ranger or condi spamming necro, so actually unexperienced players can do well by just facerolling on keyboard.

S Tier:

Ranger
Necromancer

A Tier:

Guardian =
Engineer =
Thief =
Warrior -

B Tier:

Messmer =
Elementalist =

Same thing here, but its only randomly… pre patch load time after death to respawn point was about 0,5s. Now it takes “sometimes” around 10 sec. in sum a respawn time of 25 seconds…

ATM its like, temple temple temple temple temple kyhlo temple temple temple temple temple temple temple spiritwatch temple temple temple temple temple

….