Guild Wars 2

lioka qiao.8734:

I like that idea up there that Orbs are a bonus to siege damage or supply capacity. A king of the hill objective that provides that kind of buff would break up zergs. Whoever owns the buff becomes a serious threat on the map. To defend it the zerg would have to leave behind x number of players to outnumber anyone trying to Ninja the orb shrine.

+1

I like anything that will break up zergs without interfering in roaming play. If Anet introduce stat bonuses, for me, that’s a clear sign that they don’t understand the WvW players.

Roaming is still WvW. That’ll get ruined by combat buffs. That’s my main complaint with this idea.

How about reduced damage from aoe (including arrow carts) as a potential buff? Wouldn’t kitten up roaming and would still be a boon for the holding side in terms of keep siege.

Sorry Lokheit, I really don’t like those changes at all. You’d basically be left with a stealth less P/D. I don’t see the point.

P/P is supposed to be the direct damage, bursty ranged set. It currently doesn’t work because of the 1 being condition and the 2 being and complete waste of a keybind and 5 being kinda useless to avoid D/P being overpowered.

While the weapon set is clearly in need of a complete overhaul Anet clearly don’t care enough to bother (1 year and counting) so offering a trait to lose the bleed and up the direct would serve as a quick fix. So the trait feels worthwhile you could add something to it to make 2 less useless as well. Maybe some cripple or 1 sec immobilise?

Effortless change and add some much needed variety to the thief.

I think so many people like the idea of a P/P thief (it’s what drew me to the thief prior to launch) but it’s just not quite up to scratch atm.

Survivability aside, the main problem is it’s suffering from an identity crisis. A condition based first skill but direct damage dual skill. I think this could easily be addressed with an adept trait which swaps the bleed for extra base damage. You could look at the warrior sword vs axe if you wanted to get an idea of how much extra base might be appropriate. I would suggest the acrobatics tree for this, perhaps instead of assassins retreat which is pants.

Anyone like this idea?

I really enjoyed that bid, well done. I really like the idea of the gunslinger thief and it’s been oneof my greatest disappointments of this game that devs have never bothered to work on it.

Might I suggest D/P as your weapon swap? I feel like it would synergise better with your traits and give you a better opener. It’s also much better for controlling the flow of the battle and securing those all important stomps. I think you would have managed the stomp on that thief earlier in the video had you been using the D/P offset.

Keep up with the videos!

In GvG you don’t want to be glass cannon as you’ll be a liability. Your main role is to secure stomps. Stealth stomps and better yet, shadow step stomps are highly valuable to your team as they not only thin enemy numbers they rally your downed.

Your secondary role is to harass staff eles and try to get them down quickly. They provide third team a lot of fields and utility and thieves are great at making them panic and shutting them down.

Poison fields don’t hurt either.

I don’t think you understand. Allow me to spell it out for you.

If anyone in WvW has a stat bonus from orbs then they have a real and tangible advantage over other players. This diminishes the importance of skill and coordination in a game mode which is already a 1 spamming zerg fest for the most part.

When you play, do you really get any satisfaction from stomping an up leveled? No not really. Now imagine that because you have the orb everyone is effectively up leveled to you. You can’t get an evenly matched, exciting battle of skill to save you life. Overnight the game becomes duller and more boring.

That is why stat bonuses are bad. Very, very bad.

There are plenty of other bonuses that Anet could provide that would give strategic advantages to help the underdog servers such as siege bonuses, supply bonuses, NPC killing bonuses, waypoints, extra friendly mercenaries, trap immunity, whatever. Just not combat bonuses

Stat bonuses mean:

Solo Roaming is dead
Small group roaming is dead
GvG is dead
Actually fun and competitive ZvZ is dead

I (and probably many others) will instantly quit the game.

That’s not an overreaction either. Stat bonuses would ruin everything that’s good about WvW. Thee only bonuses that orbs should provide are non-combat bonuses.

Az z.2746:

Please don’t do stats-buff again, they only take away from the merit of fighting and crushing your enemy. From the moment you start winning because you have x% more stats, and not because you are out-playing the enemy, the game becomes so much duller.

Make the buff be a strategic advantage such as:
-All sieges on the map do x% more damage against doors and gates.
-Supply capacity increase.
-Ability to build a special type of siege.

Agree with this. Stat bonuses suck but increased siege damage for holding an objective? That’s an idea I can get behind!

Please listen to your players Anet. Stat bonuses are terrible!!

Bigger maps might strain the engine constraints. More maps with less people on each and more objectives on each map (like Devon alluded to the filling in of board lands lakes and a new objective there) would be better.

Palu.3405:

Do keep in mind that it takes multiple people from different servers to duel. For every person from your server dueling, there is someone from the other server dueling. Ultimately, it evens out.

This.

Besides, less people in the zerg can only be a good thing. (Skill lag anyone?)

I’m extremely concerned about the knock-on effects for roaming.

Reserved for more ideas.

Everyone’s sick of Living Story getting all the devs attention (although I am happy with the increase in communication from Devon in the last few days) so I wanted to put forward a few ideas for WvW updates in the hope that it gave Anet some inspiration/motivation.

I will add to it and update it with feedback I receive.

New map:

The new zone will be an underground map with a maximum of 30 players from each server at a time.

The objective of the map is to gain ‘favor’ with the dredge and skritt. Favor can be used to gain assistance from these races on other boarderlands.

Favor with the skritt can be spent on ordering a supply raid on any tower or keep on any boarderland. The exact amount or % of supply stolen the devs will have to judge and the amount of supply which dolys supply keeps (not towers) with may need looking at to avoid all keeps being starved of supply too easily.

Favor with the dredge can be used to spawn a single-use dredge tunnelling capsule at any friendly spawn point which will tunnel 10 players past the outer wall of any keep. Where exactly the device will pop up should be randomised between a number of points.

To gain favor with the skritt players will need to eliminate destroyer nests placed around the underground map. These will be tougher than your average supply camp and require roughly 3 coordinated players or 5 less coordinated players to eliminate.

To gain favor with the dredge players will need to hold ore-rich mining points of which there will be 9 across the map. These points will function like large sPvP points and have no timer unlike supply camps meaning that they can be quickly flipped if left undefended.

Blobbing on this map quite simply won’t be an option as for every point you take you’ll lose 2 others and I expect squads of 5-10 to be optimal.

I expect this map will have long queues due to it being new and smaller in size and so to help counter that you will not be able to solo queue. You will need a party of 5 to join the queue (although there’s nothing stopping 5 pugs forming a party).

Knock-on effects:

This will slightly help to disincentivise blobbing on boarderlands as there will be even more opportunities for mesmers to portal squads into unguarded keeps making spreading your forces a more viable strategy.

This will help to even out numbers across servers as some people may wish to transfer to lower pop servers with shorter queues to this map. (Pay attention Anet! You will profit from these transfers!)

Simultaneous Updates:

Increase rewards for defending. Increasing the defensive event rewards would be a very small start but I think loot and wxp chances should be increased for kills within the boundary of your own keeps or towers.

Release a number of WvW-focused gemstore items including the likes of:

Commander badge colors
Badge Of Honor Drop Booster
World XP Booster
Unlimited Repair Canister
Account Bound Siege Weapon Backpack
Premium Guild Emblems
Automatic Feeder (consumes designated food and utility consumables in your inventory when their duration ends)

(Credit to Obscure One for these gemstore ideas)

Change the way keep waypoints open up for limited windows of time during sieges. It promotes blobbing as once the WP opens a whole zerg can instantly come to a keep’s defence from the other side of the map. There’s no need for this. The WP should stay closed until the siege has been concluded so one massive zerg cannot cover an entire map at once.

If possible, in game team speak (with multiple rooms) and an improved squad system. Team speak is currently a barrier to entry for newer, younger or more casual gamers. Frequently boarder lands have queues and multiple zergs but no (or at best 1) commander tagged up and pugs running around looking very confused. If it was very easy for a PvE player to drop into WvW and join in the fun we’d see the popularity of WvW shoot up even further and it would become a more profitable area of the game for Anet (and hopefully allocated more dev time as a result). This change would be amazing for PvE and sPvP too as pug groups would have the option to use team speak with each other.

This would no doubt take a while to implement but we’ve all seen how fast Anet can release content when they put their minds to it. If they planned it, made it public that they had something like this in the pipeline, I think they’d make a lot of friends in the WvW community even if it took 2 months to actually be released.

I don’t think the devs even understood why they were told to nerf the range of cluster bomb. To this day it is a closely guarded secret.

This a really really bad change. I assumed they’d just tone down the shiny effects and make it all a bit flat and dull looking but making fields not show up at all was a HUGE mistake!

Wow this thread unearthed some raw emotion

The problem is that we don’t really know what they’re working on behind the scenes. The extra trait lines may just be something to keep us occupied while they’re working on something big. Or they might just be it.

Why hasn’t anyone from Anet made even a short statement as to what their plans for WvW are? If it’s a case of “We’re working on it. Shut up and be patient!” then fine, at least then we know.

Anet’s silence on big topics is alienating their fanbase. Don’t need to be an expert in PR to know that’s unwise.

Don’t throw your toys out of the pram just yet. It says it will reduce the detail not hide the spell. So you’ll still see the meteor shower, it’ll just look increasingly unexciting and plain when game performance starts to drop. This is a good thing.

Absolutely. Really like the commander badge idea, 0 effort to implement and would definitely sell. Some interesting purchaseable emotes would do well too. How about a limited use lootbag collector that will instantly pick up every lootbag in 2400 radius? I would be all over that!

Why are we having to tell Anet how to increase revenues? :S

I think the problem is WvW players don’t spend as much in the gem store as PvE players so the motivation for anet to devote a lot of time to WvW just isn’t there.

What them don’t seem to realise though is that WvW players don’t buy gems because of the way that Anet themselves designed WvW…

I find it hard to believe that anet are intentionally completely neglecting a huge part of their player base. Their priorities (living story above all else) are completely wrong IMO but I have faith that they are at least planning SOMETHING for WvW. Maybe the fact that we’ve only seen tiny updates recently means they’re planning something big? Maybe not.

Engels.8537:

shadowraith.9124:

Thieves are actually a bit below average in 1v1s and way below average for anything group related.

Cool story son,

Equally skilled Mesmer, Engi, Necro, BM ranger, D/D ele will comfortably beat a thief in 1v1. That places them just below average.

Reasons for hate: Perma stealth and general slipperyness (ie able to escape a losing battle better than most classes).

This has gone unchanged for a number of balancing patches and other areas where the thief is weak (non stealth combat and group combat) have also been left unaddressed.

The conclusion?

Working as intended.

I’d happily lose perma stealth in return for some buffs to s/x, venoms and a p/p rework. Won’t happen though.

That picture is lol

OP: L2P

Erm… think you lot are missing the point. They’re called THIEVES. Being hard to catch is kinda the point. Wouldn’t make very good thieves if they were as easy to catch as some pleb with full plate and a greatsword.

Thieves are actually a bit below average in 1v1s and way below average for anything group related.

L2P

Markus.7918:

My experience is, that all those leaps and gapcloser dont get you anywhere, as soon as you start eating cripple and cc from more than one enemys. You just can’t have enough removal on you.
I am too very frustrated with chasing and options to run away.

Either you pack in your staff for speed and get laughed at when you get crippled.
Or you take your Weapon of choice and are kitet.

your only option ist to be so glassy Glasscanon, that your enemys dont get to hit their slow, invisible, 10.000 clones – buttons before they hit the dirt.
thats not something i like, when i choose a class that is about protection……….

Agree 100% with everything here

To those saying we have the utilities for mobility, yes but taking those over mediations completely gimps you in combat. Other classes don’t need to make the same sacrifices.

Let’s say you take a shout build with a GS and sword. Any other roaming class of equal skill is going to beat you in a 1v1. Without AH and at least 5 people around you a shout build doesn’t have the same sustain as a meditations one, nor does it have the offensive burning capabilities.

We shouldn’t have to chose between mobility and winning battles.

GS and Sword is not a good combo. Scepter/Mace is miles better and leaves you with nothing.

The argument that you can blink to bunnies is ridiculous because there’s huge sections of the maps with none to be seen. Furthermore, a class should not be relying on something so gimmicky for survivability.

Guardian desperately needs some better escape mechanics. Making judges intervention ground targeted might help a bit but better access to swiftness is also desperately required.

I don’t think the guardian’s complete lack of mobility and chase/escape mechanics in WvW is fair.

Our best builds for 1v1s or small group play mostly use the one handed weapons and triple meditations which offer no swiftness, no gap makers and little no gap closers.

If we were vastly superior in combat and able to beat any other class it’d be understandable but at the moment we are nicely balanced against other classes in combat. However, almost all other classes have a plethora of mobility skills available to their main WvW builds and we have next to none.

Yes, out of combat you could swap in staff for a bit of swiftness but what about when you see that big blob coming towards your roaming squad (even worse if you’re in combat at the time!)? Every other class bar (perhaps) necro can easily escape in time while we are left behind to die. Fighting a thief/warrior/ranger/mesmer? Don’t expect any loot bags. As soon as you start to win they’ll casually skip away from you.

Anet have done a pretty good job of the guardian for spvp, pve and blobbing but we are currently THE WORST class for roaming/havok.

Imbune.5497:

Marduh.4603:

smoke field>>guardian

I…I don’t….I….what?
Did I really just read someone imply that a couple of seconds of a combo fields is better than an entire profession?
I…you….

I’d love to live in your world for short periods of time…I suspect extended stay might be detrimental to one’s health. But on to off chance that you have some secret knowledge…please do share-simply saying x >y doesn’t make it so-support your claim

I lol’d

Don’t agree. It’s not hard to have an organised group without a commander tag atm. We do it all the time. True, there should be better grouping in-game but the people who want to run organised smaller groups without tagging up already are doing.

The problem is that blobing is currently more effective than not doing.

Taking devs away from living story to work on the core gameplay and existing issues? Signed. Signed a million times. Who actually cares about living story? All the achievements are so painfully repetitive that everyone I know who participates in living story view it as a ‘necessary evil’.

You can already CTL T your commander and all organised groups use TS so while I’d like a better grouping system I don’t think it’d change much in this regard.

Raven.9603:

All that footage of last matchup and you left out the parts where Torrid beat you?

That’s a really bitter comment.

What is it about online forums that turns people into such vile cretins?

I hate this idea.

I think the maps are a little small, yes. A blob with swiftness can cross the map to defend a keep faster than a small group can secure it. That’s the reason blobbing is effective. So if a small group could take an objective faster than a zerg on the other side of the map could come to save it, blobbing would quickly become ineffective.

What you need is for 2 groups of 20 to be able to take objectives faster than a group of 40 can take them both out. Splitting forces across the map would become necessary to hold everything down.

So how?

Either you increase the speed at which small groups can ram down gates (especially wooden ones) by giving them a way to increase supply capacity or boost ram damage; or, you try to stretch out the maps (if they dont want to put alot of work into this I’d juat keep all the proportions similar but just scale everything up rather than add big stretches of boring land).

Edit: OP was naughty in the matchup forums. Disapprove.

Sorry but I’m not sure Fadeaway did get it right because they didn’t understand the question properly. Let me clarify. The question is not: which class is best for solo and which is best for zerging. That has been discussed to death i think. The question is: what class do you think is best able to perform well in all of those situations

Saying that no class is good solo besides thief is beyond ridiculous.

Having thought more about this I think now it may be warrior. They are great in zergs (huge health pool means full pvt isnt an automatic requirement which is nice) and have great mobility for roaming/havok play and can even do well in 1v1s.

Interested to hear peoples’ thoughts on this. What do you think is the best all round WvW class? To be the best all rounder it must be in the top few classes for blobbing, small zerg, group roaming and solo roaming/1v1s.

I think possibly guardian except for the fact that it has very low escapability and below-par survivability in non-bunker builds.

Thoughts?

Xsorus.2507:

style.6173:

Xsorus.2507:

Thief

Thief is the absolute best class at tagging enemies

All you need is shortbow, and spam Choking Gas

hahahahaha. Thanks for that.

Necro and guard are definitely the top.

I have a Necro, and a Thief….I even have videos to prove it

If you think a Necro comes anywhere near a Thief in terms of tagging people (Note I said tagging, Not actually being amazing at zerging, a thief is no where near in that regard to a Necro and Guardian) but Tagging a Thief has no equal.

You can lay out a massive area over and over again hitting ANYONE who runs through it… and once they’re hit and take damage, they’ve been tagged..

Think a Plague Form you can use whenever you want with no cooldown.

I’m not sure a couple of ticks from choking gas is enough to score a tag for loot. I’m convinced you need to do 500-1000 DMG for a good chance of a bag.

Spamming choking gas is pretty useful for the zerg tho. Wouldn’t want people healing now would we?

@Zelyhn

I take your point but I think that expressing the numbers like that, while possibly accurate, could be miss leading.

IMHO combat mobility isn’t about who’d win in a straight line race it’s about being able to move around the battlefield unimpaired, casting spells. Things like stability, vigor and swiftness uptime are relevant as is how many spells require a target (and you to be facing that target) and access to reflections, invunerabilities, stun breaks and even (arguably) condition cleanses.

You might be right that ele has low mobility, I don’t know, but you’re not currently telling the whole story. (Plus you’re comparing to a warrior which has the most gap closers/makers of all).

@Blackbeard

Yeah it’s the “zerg diving” that I thought looked fun. Shame to hear its not as effective as I thought.

I’ll nip that in the bud right now. This wasn’t intended as a thread for people to complain about the RTL nerf. I’m aware of it. As far as I’m know though, they didn’t give you concrete boots and in the video I watched the ele was bouncing around all over the place leaving chaos in his wake. Looked cool.

Hi
I’ve been watching a few ele videos recently (as it’s one of the only classes i dont play and know very little about) and I really like the look for D/D ele for WvW. The mobility and number of engages/disengages/escapes and aoe damage looks very appealing.

My question for those of you who play one is: how is it really playing an ele in ZvZ WvW? Is it fun? Do they do lots of damage to lots of people? Are they last man standing due to their mobility or first man downed due to low health pool?

Also, how are they for small group roaming or even 1v1s?

Thanks in advance!

Oh you can swap weapons from your inventory in combat now? Cool I must have missed that patch note…

Are anet joking? Still no reliable swiftness without centaur runes?!

Looks better than it is IMO. I can’t see it synergising well with the build. You cnd for stealth, back away, apply bleeds then you need to move back into melee for this which puts you at range again so you can’t clock and dagger.

I really want to like the thief condi builds but they’re just too gimmicky atm.

Love the new videos Osi.

I’d be interested to see you trying to escape losing battles (if you do actually lose any!) or outnumberred situations on that shattercat heavy build as it’s the main thing that puts me off using it in WvW (thst is, less than 100% swiftness uptime).

Do you find that even in the current condition meta, the 60% lower condition uptime is enough to survive against the classes with really nasty condition burst without cleanse?

At least you find yourselves funny.

The corporation angle to your guild is quite amusing but your posters (trolls) here are childish and boring.

Can we keep this thread about the match up please.

Had developed quite a lot of respect for VcY over the past week… until I saw this thread…

(Stolen from mesmer forums)

If you had two (sensible) buffs to make to the thief. What would would they be?

Ideally you would chose 2 buffs which bring weak builds up to balance without making stronger builds overpowered.

Everyone slags off Anet. Could you do better?

I don’t see how you could argue D/D will grant you greater survivability against numbers than D/P. Cloak and dagger requires you to be in melee range to stealth and its so easy for you to cm get chain cc’d.

With D/P you only exit stealth when you chose to.

Using auto targetting with D/P in an scenario will get you killed. One accidental Heatseeker in the wrong direction giving you revealed is enough to get you killed.