Guild Wars 2

If it isn’t changed to be soloable by this time next week, I’m out for good.

Masteries gated behind grind is fine. Challenging content is fine, it’s awesome, even. Having skills gated behind group content with champ mobs? No. Just no.

I have a feeling that the devs have never tried to complete this content outside of running it with other devs, all of whom know the content inside out. /facepalm

Has Anet said anything? Is this new difficulty here to stay? I would like to know if I need to start looking for a new MMO to play with friends.

The amount of CC when doing something Solo is too much. Spiking dmg everywhere without warning. 1 hit kills. long distances to travel without waypoints. vertical designed maps with bad minimap design. gated storyline with masteries needed to unlock. where are the new real jumping puzzles? new wvw is only roaming orientated. you can’t do the world events without a group. commander tag is still 300 gold, even for players who are 3y in the game.

but I do like the storyline so far!

Agares.6073:

+1 every kittening event i go to you need more people the first map is like empty wtf

I ventured to Dragon’s Stand (the last map) and it was virtually dead. No map chat, no other players, no events progressing. Nothing. I stood there for the last 15 minutes of the timer, because I thought it was an event.. but I was wrong.

I wonder if there is actually something wrong with the maps?

Otherwise, I too have a difficult time solo’ing in the expansion maps. Even duo’ing is difficult due to the insane champions with arbitrary time limits.

Aside from everything listed in the original post – I just don’t like it. And for the first time, I kind of regret buying a Guild Wars product (I bought the Deluxe and my husband bought the Ultimate). Since you nailed everything pretty much I have a few things to add. 1. I hate jumping puzzles. I suck at them and hate them. (Hence why I only have map completion on one char). 2. I don’t have ADD – therefore there is just too much going on in HoT for me. 3. At the rate I can play – it will be close to a year before I can get specializations done on just one char. And frankly, I’d like them on all 3 that I have. I know a majority of players don’t mind the grind – it’s the new age of gaming. Honestly, I don’t mind it either. But make it reasonable. I love exploring and roaming – but not in HoT. I accomplished map completion solo on my ranger. I was hoping for the same type if thing in HoT. (I spent 4 hours trying to reach a part of the story – running in circles, fending off mobs, before just giving up and logging off. I have not returned to the HoT map). I do enjoy the new WvW content. Guild Halls are amazing! Looking forward to taming the new pets for my ranger. But for now, I’ll do whatever I can in the original map to just enjoy playing and hanging out with friends when time allows. Otherwise, my gliders will collect dust. Thanks for your efforts, and I do hope the rest of you enjoy the game and obtain the achievements. But some of us just won’t. It’s too time consuming to accomplish anything (when you get excited after finally finding a new WP….it’s bad) which leads to frustration and that is not why I game.

leftyboy.9358:

Just watched the gw2 manifesto and you’re right. They have strayed from that path. Of particular interest to this topic is 1:20-1:40 where he very clearly and passionately describes their grind philosophy.

I think it’s important to note that there’s a very precise moment in the xpac where they diverge from that manifesto. (And keep in mind, I say the following as someone who is enjoying masteries and whose main complaint is the elite spec setup, so some of it will be theory more than anything.)

Here’s the situation: They added horizontal progression in two big respects – masteries and elite specializations. This is horizontal progression by definition, as it doesn’t give you gear upgrades and it doesn’t really make you any more powerful; it just gives you some fun abilities that you didn’t have before and a new way to play your class.

Now here’s where they diverge: The HoT zones have numerous areas that are only accessible (or all but impossible to access) without certain masteries. Because navigating the HoT maps is a distinctive part of the HoT experience, it starts to look almost like vertical progression. It’s a very very fine distinction. Vertical progression is usually referred to as things like gear upgrades and the HoT zones don’t offer that.

But… HoT content is largely: 1) Masteries, 2) Elite Specs, 3) Story, and 4) New maps. Both parts of maps and parts of points for elite specs are locked behind masteries. This means one part of progression is locked behind another part of progression (masteries and elite specs). But further than that, there is what I will term “pleasure progression” that is gated behind horizontal progression. Pleasure progression I’m using to refer to content such as map completion and map exploration, that usually has no gating and gives no (or minimal) rewards. The gain is the pleasure of doing it.

And pleasure progression being gated by horizontal progression is problematic because it gives the sense that you need to do your chores before you can play video games, almost like the game is a job.

How a different system would have avoided breaking the manifesto: I doubt any major changes to the mastery system are going to happen now, but for pure academic pleasure… had masteries all been fluff (e.g. abilities that enhance the experience of their environment, but are not required or even recommended for it) then the application of terms like “grind” would be completely unjustified. Instead, the term is slightly justified because there are numerous masteries are absolutely vital for certain map content and even when they are not vital, they are often the sort of thing that you’d expect to be there to begin with.

Once again, I’m not criticizing what the masteries are myself. I’m happy so far with what they are and what they provide. But from a theoretical standpoint, many of them would rank as baseline navigational abilities for such complex zone design. In the context of the classic zones, they would truly feel like a bonus, sent down from the gods above, but many of the lower ones do indeed feel like the sort of thing that you should have from the start, given how the maps are designed.

And to be fair, the base ones have a relatively low XP cost. But I can see how someone who only has 1-2 hours to play a day might need a few days, or even a week at a slow pace, just to get an introductory mastery. Which could feel like a long time to spend to get baseline navigation in a complex zone.

I’m fine with Anet waiting before jumping to make a decision. At least they are aware people are seeing this.

That said, I’m in the group that thinks the Elite Specs and Hero Point system didn’t work. You can list a bunch of reasons why: the Unlocking method of Elite Specs was never Beta tested, Elite Specs are already unlocked in PvP but nowhere else, the current method of unlocking Elite specs is tedious and cumbersome for ONE character, let alone a group… etc. But the truth is that it didn’t work.

Mastery progression was done WONDERFULLY. Progress in PvP was done right. The HoT story was done mostly well (and what wasn’t is being fixed by Anet). Raids and making content harder was done right. All of those are great examples of horizontal progression.

But the unlocking of Hero Points and Elite specs are not. When you’re ignoring most of the story and exploration to unlock your spec SO that you can enjoy the story and exploration… I think the plan has failed. I like gliding. I love bouncing off mushrooms. Alas, I can’t enjoy any of that because I have to hunt down every Hero Point I find. And while some people are fine with the way things are… I don’t think that’s how Anet wanted us to play.

Oh and let’s not forget that some Hero Points are gated. :p Hero points were never a group thing before. They were a reward for exploration. That’s not the case now. Unless you can solo a Champion or have all of your mastery points first.

The only thing worse then the current situation with the Elite specs is the folks who don’t exactly agree that the current system is flawed and just belittle the entire conversation without seeing the other side of the argument. It’s holding back any constructive feedback that can be given.

No one wants all the content given to them to start. No one is asking for full Mastery to start. No one is asking for High PvP or WvW ranks. No one has a problem with the way Strongholds are working or that you have to work towards Raids or Guild Halls.

But the Elite Spec issue is the only one that stands out as a mistake. And if you want to know why I think this happened? It’s because this was one of the few features not tested by the community. It probably seemed good on paper and internal testing. But not everyone plays the game the same.

I don’t blame Anet for this. It’s just one of those things they probably just didn’t see coming. Alas, it is now here. And I hope we get a fix once they realize this isn’t a Weekend Launch issue or Fist Week Launch issue and just an unfortunate (and understandable) miscalculation on their end.

Ezrael.6859:

I’m sure this game is rated T for teen?

Yep, there it is at the bottom of the page.

Yet here we are, page 55 in the megathread of whiny children that spent 9 months complaining about wanting to play HoT and are now complaining about having to play HoT…
Modern gamers, I’ll never understand your sense of entitlement.

And you didn’t really read the posts. You just skimmed.

Players want to play the new content (excluding elite specs if you consider them content) with fully unlocked elite specs. Not wind up with a fully unlocked elite spec when they’re most of the way through playing the rest of the new content.

They’re upset that ANet’s decided the order in which they experience the new content.

Ezrael.6859:

I’m sure this game is rated T for teen?

Yep, there it is at the bottom of the page.

Yet here we are, page 55 in the megathread of whiny children that spent 9 months complaining about wanting to play HoT and are now complaining about having to play HoT…
Modern gamers, I’ll never understand your sense of entitlement.

Another wonderful post from someone who did not read any of the issues presented or suggestions in the thread.

ColinJohanson.2394:

Hey folks,

Lots of passionate feedback and discussion in here on either side, and a friendly reminder that constructive feedback helps us make better games (please do keep it constructive!) We don’t always get every detail perfect the first time, but I like to think one of our strengths is we’re always open to and listening to feedback from our community and making good decisions based on that feedback.

Ultimately, we’re thrilled with the parts of HoT everyone is enjoying. Your passion is awesome, and it’s part of why we all love creating this game. In particular, in game we’ve seen a really positive reaction to the game from folks who are busy playing, which has been really cool to see.

While we never like to rush and make snap decisions, in particular with a game that’s basically been out less than three days; I think there are some fair points in here for us to discuss. Much like other feedback about HoT, we’ll be discussing this as well!

Thanks again!

So your solution to the community’s outcry is to tell us to hold tight? I have alts that I want to have an elite spec on, but that won’t happen. I was going to buy another character slot so I could make a necromancer of a different race. I was going to do all of these things which are now infinitely more difficult because of the difficulty of hero points.

Initially, I wanted to go through the new content with each profession I had in order to get all of the specializations unlocked. Now, I will not be doing so. My interest plummeted as soon as I discovered that the mesmer I unlocked chronomancer on would be the only mesmer on which I can use that specialization. That means the number of times I would need to unlock each specialization at least doubled. That’s ridiculous. It makes me want to play less. It makes me want to spend less on your game. It makes me want to rescind any recommendation I made of your game to any of my friends.

I have a few friends who previously quit the game that returned on the day of the expansion to ask me to test things out for a week. I agreed. This is not boding well for their purchasing of the expansion.

PopeUrban.2578:

Devildoc.6721:

The only problem I have with this train of thought Anet has taken.. is that what happens when the zones are less populated and you can’t find people to do them with?

Will everyone just have to train through wvw/eotm to get their elite specs?

Or people could make friends in a social game and help each other.

When you say “everyone” what you’re really saying is “people who insist on treating a multiplayer game like a single player game”

It’s good to have friends, it always has been, and doing anything with some like minded others is pretty much always more fun.

MMOs generally revolve around the assumption that you bring or make friends. GW2’s systems were made as cooperative as possible to make sure it was easier to make friends, by removing most of the stress points where other players could interfere with your play. At worst they can ignore you, at best, they help you out.

I know people don’t want to hear this, but really, try talking to people, saying thank you when they help you, and forming social ties with other players.

A lot of people hate begging for help with things and dragging people, even their friends, out to the middle of nowhere to help them do something they can’t do on their own.

It’s one thing if it’s mutually beneficial, but it’s another entirely when I’m asking someone to go out of their way to help me.

jazzllanna.1278:

And now I just tabbed back into the game and this is what I see from another player http://imgur.com/PPAv6oK

People cannot complete the skill points without paying other players?! Oh my this is not going to be good in the long run.

It’s obvious that ANet doesn’t care. Player interaction is a good thing, right?

There is no reason for hero challenges not to be soloable. Your personal progression should not be dependent on the whims of other people, period.

Chrono.6928:

Drivrius.6159:

It’s so people would be forced to play the horrible new content.

GW2’s core game was a fun, casual friendly experience.

Were soloing your story quests was simple, with plenty of WPs and exp to get to cap.

HOT thou? It has mob density that all but forces a group just to get to the few and far inbetween WPs, HPs that spawns champions require masteries or are guarded by groups of vets, events that spawn all over the place with enough mobs to eat you alive in seconds.

The mobs in HOT exist in 3 forms: does large area damage, knocks downs, does large aoe damage and knocks down.

I tackled the new content with Cavalier armor on, I’ll try Sentinel next because Cavalier is simply not enough to survive in HOT, but then again I get the feeling HOT is not meant to be soloable since not only do the mobs hit hard enough to kill you very quickly they also have plenty of hit points and vets are plentiful.

Are mobs currently over tuned? Should I stop trying to solo my story line?

All in all HOT feels like an entirely different game from GW2, it’s more like a hardcore “die at the 1st mistake” kind of game then the casual friendly game I liked…

Very disappointed in the new content, I’ll do it once to know the story then never again.

Tip from a seasoned fractal player. Get better. Its not about armor its about knowing what to dodge and the encounter mechanics. Sorry you can’t breeze through it the first week with a greatsword and zerker armor lol. Anet said be prepared to try new armor, utility skills and change traits often. Its actually not kittence you learn.

“Git gud” is not a tip, it’s a veiled insult.

I don’t run zerk, never have. My problem is not a lack of skill, my problem is that a casual game has stopped being so in the span of a single expansion.

SRoode.7318:

I play a Mesmer with Celestial gear and I don’t think the fighting is too hard. I can’t do most of the Hero Points by myself, but I can do some. What is hard is trying to figure out the 3 dimension maze and how to get to where I want to go. I’m okay with the 400HP (I had map completion with my Mesmer, so I got about 50% Chronomancer from the start, and I don’t mind working for the rest). What I do not like is the XP requirement on the Tyria side. Since I have map completion on 3 of my characters, I feel I have more than done this. They gave me 30 points for everything I already did in Tyria, so I think it’s appropriate that they also account for all the XP I already completed. The other thing I’m not so happy about is having the Scribe in the Guild Halls only. I’m a Guild of 1, and I can accept that they have made the decision to limit this type of Guild (I Still have my Guild Bank, so that’s okay). But, having the Scribe in the Guild Hall prevents me from crafting pre’s if I choose to do so, unless I join another bigger guild, which I will not do.

Anyway, that’s my two cents.

I’m part of a 3 men guild, we knew from the start we would have very little but we were getting there, the new Guild Hall system pretty much ended any chance at expanding our guild unlocks through slow progression.

I play a Mesmer with Celestial gear and I don’t think the fighting is too hard. I can’t do most of the Hero Points by myself, but I can do some. What is hard is trying to figure out the 3 dimension maze and how to get to where I want to go. I’m okay with the 400HP (I had map completion with my Mesmer, so I got about 50% Chronomancer from the start, and I don’t mind working for the rest). What I do not like is the XP requirement on the Tyria side. Since I have map completion on 3 of my characters, I feel I have more than done this. They gave me 30 points for everything I already did in Tyria, so I think it’s appropriate that they also account for all the XP I already completed. The other thing I’m not so happy about is having the Scribe in the Guild Halls only. I’m a Guild of 1, and I can accept that they have made the decision to limit this type of Guild (I Still have my Guild Bank, so that’s okay). But, having the Scribe in the Guild Hall prevents me from crafting pre’s if I choose to do so, unless I join another bigger guild, which I will not do.

Anyway, that’s my two cents.

For once they have made PvE enjoyable, it’s a shame it’s over shadowed by the grind of getting elite specs, I just want the mechanics I paid for to be unlocked to enjoy the content to it’s full extent.

It’s so people would be forced to play the horrible new content.

GW2’s core game was a fun, casual friendly experience.

Were soloing your story quests was simple, with plenty of WPs and exp to get to cap.

HOT thou? It has mob density that all but forces a group just to get to the few and far inbetween WPs, HPs that spawns champions require masteries or are guarded by groups of vets, events that spawn all over the place with enough mobs to eat you alive in seconds.

The mobs in HOT exist in 3 forms: does large area damage, knocks downs, does large aoe damage and knocks down.

I tackled the new content with Cavalier armor on, I’ll try Sentinel next because Cavalier is simply not enough to survive in HOT, but then again I get the feeling HOT is not meant to be soloable since not only do the mobs hit hard enough to kill you very quickly they also have plenty of hit points and vets are plentiful.

Are mobs currently over tuned? Should I stop trying to solo my story line?

All in all HOT feels like an entirely different game from GW2, it’s more like a hardcore “die at the 1st mistake” kind of game then the casual friendly game I liked…

Very disappointed in the new content, I’ll do it once to know the story then never again.

ColinJohanson.2394:

Hey folks,

Lots of passionate feedback and discussion in here on either side, and a friendly reminder that constructive feedback helps us make better games (please do keep it constructive!) We don’t always get every detail perfect the first time, but I like to think one of our strengths is we’re always open to and listening to feedback from our community and making good decisions based on that feedback.

Ultimately, we’re thrilled with the parts of HoT everyone is enjoying. Your passion is awesome, and it’s part of why we all love creating this game. In particular, in game we’ve seen a really positive reaction to the game from folks who are busy playing, which has been really cool to see.

While we never like to rush and make snap decisions, in particular with a game that’s basically been out less than three days; I think there are some fair points in here for us to discuss. Much like other feedback about HoT, we’ll be discussing this as well!

Thanks again!

If ANet takes more than 1 week to fix the Hero points requirements a lot of players will give up on GW2.

As ANet knows better than us, once you lose the big hype train there is nothing to do…remember FF XIV.

It is a pitty that the HoT expansion can be ruined by just 1 aspect of the game, 1 wrong decision made by the wrong person at the wrong time.

1 week, please make it happen ANet!

ColinJohanson.2394:

Hey folks,

Lots of passionate feedback and discussion in here on either side, and a friendly reminder that constructive feedback helps us make better games (please do keep it constructive!) We don’t always get every detail perfect the first time, but I like to think one of our strengths is we’re always open to and listening to feedback from our community and making good decisions based on that feedback.

Ultimately, we’re thrilled with the parts of HoT everyone is enjoying. Your passion is awesome, and it’s part of why we all love creating this game. In particular, in game we’ve seen a really positive reaction to the game from folks who are busy playing, which has been really cool to see.

While we never like to rush and make snap decisions, in particular with a game that’s basically been out less than three days; I think there are some fair points in here for us to discuss. Much like other feedback about HoT, we’ll be discussing this as well!

Thanks again!

So, how long should we expect to wait before you guys create something more reasonable? Three months? Six? Fallout 3 is releasing next month, and I’m sure the November releases can keep me occupied until you guys figure out how to not lie to us.

ColinJohanson.2394:

In particular, in game we’ve seen a really positive reaction to the game from folks who are busy playing, which has been really cool to see.

To be fair, I passed by someone with the ANet guild tag in HoT today, and I was really tempted to say something to them. After all, if they’re repping that guild, they want it to be known that they’re part of ANet, right?

But the game is for playing, and the forums are for discussions and opinions. So, I did the polite thing and kept my mouth shut as I moved on.

It doesn’t mean I’m happy, it just means I’m polite.

ColinJohanson.2394:

Hey folks,

Lots of passionate feedback and discussion in here on either side, and a friendly reminder that constructive feedback helps us make better games (please do keep it constructive!) We don’t always get every detail perfect the first time, but I like to think one of our strengths is we’re always open to and listening to feedback from our community and making good decisions based on that feedback.

Ultimately, we’re thrilled with the parts of HoT everyone is enjoying. Your passion is awesome, and it’s part of why we all love creating this game. In particular, in game we’ve seen a really positive reaction to the game from folks who are busy playing, which has been really cool to see.

While we never like to rush and make snap decisions, in particular with a game that’s basically been out less than three days; I think there are some fair points in here for us to discuss. Much like other feedback about HoT, we’ll be discussing this as well!

Thanks again!

Most of the arguments and justification for feedback have been stated so many times already that it’s pretty much just boiled down to a list of “sign me up for the complaint list” rather than bringing new discussion. People are clearly flustered because pretty much all of their time, effort, and anticipation has been nullified.

I think it goes without saying that this isn’t something that needs to be looked into so much as it is something that needs to be changed altogether. Clearly there’s a massive upset, so acknowledging the need for change and expressing something will be done is much more important for damage control in the short term while a solution is devised.

While I mean no disrespect, I strongly advise resolving this issue ASAP as it seems (based on forum threads, reddit, personal experience in-game, etc.) that this is a tipping point for the game very much downwards if nothing is done quickly as to keep players around, bolster short-term sales, and perhaps start re-gaining some consumer trust. Whether or not I can speak for other people here, I don’t know, but I’m definitely holding back on any subsequent purchases from ArenaNet despite literally having planned to have charged gems a few days after the expansion prior to the expansion’s release. It’s also raising huge concerns over the legitimacy and accuracy of what is stated by your company vs. reality based on the massive difference between the content we were marketed and what is now available in-game.

I do commend your staff for a seamless release. Only thing to go down was the wiki for a short period :p

I’d suggest making the elite specs still require hero points, but only 60 or maybe even 100, just for the skills and traits. The cosmetics should be locked away which is fine, because they’re cosmetic. Cutting the HP cost also lets you develop more elite specs during the period of HOT’s release without needing to add more hero point locations, add a new currency, or inflate them again or add new content to allow for expansion into the future. This way, unlocking all of them requires a bit more completion, but accessing only a few is quite reasonable and acceptable for those not interested. Recall this system is a framework; best to keep it as consistent and sustainable as possible, no?

I understand the communication policy is to keep it close and not say much, but I think this is a situation where you’re gonna have to bust out the stops. I say this as someone also worked in the MMO industry, and I wish I had done so much better when I had the chances to.

Oh on a side note, it might also be wise to tone down some of the champion hero challenges to be a bit more solo-able. The champions are still super easy to blob down, anyways, but are nigh impossible for solo players as the baseline stats are just too high.

Nike.2631:

hurrado.2346:

Praise the lord they are looking into a solution, thanks Colin!

Um, that’s NOT AT ALL what he just said.

Agreed. Pretty sure it was more along the lines of: ‘We are happy with the game’s reception despite this thread, we’ll talk about this (as in, future tense) with no more or less urgency than any of the other feedback we’ve gotten so far, and 3 days in is too soon to tell you anything one way or another.’

Which is, imho, not the post he should’ve made. Side-stepping issues that are clearly issues just makes people more frustrated.

That said, I do believe they will make a change. The question is, will it be enough of a change that makes us happy, and will we still be playing by the time they do?

To reitarate – and I am going to beat this dead horse until it is alive again – you gated basic game mechanics. Plain and simple. People can call elite specs “character progression” as much as they want but that doesn’t magically turn them into that. Elite specs are new classes.

BlackBunny.3681:

Man the amount of effort the devs put in for you guys and you just stomp it in the drain with posting 1/10 reviews to force there hand….. They are most likely discussing it….. i actually cant believe how toxic these posters are….

I think the general consensus is that the game has the potential to be great. The expansion is amazing. Nobody is questioning that, I think. Nobody is even complaining about the new map. The complaint is that you have to grind to even get a chance to play the elite specialization. That’s no fun. Maybe make us grind to complete the entire specialization track, but until you completely unlock a track, sometimes you’re not viable anywhere other than pve. I can’t go and wvw with a half-unlocked trait track. I can’t justify that, so I’m stuck not enjoying the new content or I’m forced to pve for it over the next weeks. That’s enjoyable to nobody.

I am gonna just add my 2 cents as well. I was pretty burnt out on the original gw2 release after having spent days and days and days in the SW. So I took a break thinking I would come back for the elite specializations. Now I wish I had never pre-ordered. (Dumb on my part I know) Never again though.

They buggered us with adding in Ascended gear when they said they wouldn’t and we took it, they buggered us with re-adding in the trinity and we are taking it – as well as adding yet ANOTHER tier of armor which they said they wouldn’t do, they buggered us and lied to us in numerous ways… but putting a gate on content like this? fraid that’s too much for me. I may be stuck with HoT, but kitten ed if i ever buy another GW expansion before the reviews come out.

I paid $100 to play new specs through new zones. Give me my elites to play and I’ll shut up along with everyone else who’s kittened over this. It’s really quite simple.

Hello , well there have been hundreds of posts with people being disappointed about the new Expansion for various reasons and i would just like to leave my vote on this thread , the vote of disappointment.

I don’t even believe that they will ever fix it , patch it yes. But fix it completely ? Doubt it.

And it’s quite sad actually because the Expansion has some really good elements , but horribly misused and gated.