Guild Wars 2

They don’t, free trial weekend and they don’t
A) disable mail on new accounts to stop them receiving the money or siege plans to grief with.
B) just flat out disable wvw access for free accounts.

It doesnt take much foresight to see this kinda thing happen but they are too focused on pulling new people in and not taking care of the ones they already have -_-

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

Here is what AH does. It makes bad players think that running more shouts than necessary is a good idea. Then those same players, seem to use the shouts as either ways to heal themselves, or with soldier runes only use shouts to remove condi which is silly.

AH promotes bad game play. If you need a shout on your bar, then do it. But it doesn’t require AH, since it is a giant waste of valuable trait points.

If you want protection, get a hammer and give perma protection. 5 seconds on a 24 second cool down isn’t anything to brag about.

That’s your opinion and an unsubstantiated one. You are imagining a problem into being that doesn’t exist in the first place. The fact is AH synergizes perfectly with boon granting skills which happens to include shouts and even to your point hammer skills. And shouts happen to grant some of the most useful group buffs in the game such as stability, protection/regen, aegis/swiftness. Your assertion that getting AH wastes trait points is also completely unfounded as you’ve yet to show any evidence.

Sure in some situations WOR and SOA or some consecrations for example can be swapped in for certain encounters but the fact remains the synergy between shouts and AH makes the build one of the most viable pve/wvw zerg builds out there.

Also, 30% crit damage and 300 toughness which synergizes with retributive precision actually grants dps as well.

You are just spouting off the same tired and unsubstantiated talking points of those who deny AH is viable simply based on their own unsubstantiated biases and lack of understanding.

Saint.5647:

AH has some good zerg utility in WvW. Aside from that, meditations would be better to run if you are going to roam.

Now in the realm of PvE, it is problematic (especially for someone without much experience with the class). AH is a huge trait investment in a tree that doesn’t really bring any benefits to the party, and only minimal benefits to the user.

The biggest problem with AH is that it reduces your personal DPS to a level of uselessness.
-AH pushes guardians into using shouts; this can be a huge waste of their utility slots
-The actual healing of AH is not so high that it can trivialize content; in short, you will be losing health a lot regardless if you are relying on AH for your survival
-What does that mean? It means that you will keep wasting boons on keeping yourself alive, instead of monitoring the team and using them as needed. This is where you see Guardians wasting Aegis or stability for a few heals.
-Better survivability would actually be attained with more survivable armor; there is no shame in starting off somewhere.
-It betrays the user into a sense of security and feeling of usefulness. In fact, they are pushing short lived boons to their benefit and to the detriment of the team.

This has been my experience with AH Guardians. As a Guardian main, I cannot recommend this build to anyone outside of WvW.

Wrong. Shouts are the best group support skills a guard has. Group Stability, aegis, and protection/regen and all of them synergize with AH.

Taking AH also does not nerf your dps since your dps is mostly determined by your gear choice. Not to mention taking AH gives you an additional 30% crit damage and 300 toughness, which also synergizes with retributive precision to give more precision and therefore dps.

The fact is AH is probably the most viable and consistent pve build out there for guards. It’s just that there’s an unending number of charlatans on the forums who think they are special and found some magical build that is somehow better when all facts show otherwise.

So for the first 6-8 months we couldn’t finish any dungeons because AH was the primary build guardians used and the game was just awful because nothing ever died because it out healed our dps??!? Or was it just as capable in a fight, albeit not as optimal and fast?

Also, the point of AH is that scales badly with healing power, so you actually want to use dps gear with it.

Players should not use AH to tank, but to “sustain” in normal combat. If the fights do not finish before other resources do, because of bad dps, gear, dodging, then having this cushion helps them.

I’m trying to agree with you guys that meta is good and the ideal way to play, In fact I run meta. Yet at the same time I acknowledge that it isn’t the “only” way to do it….

This is the whole contention. The fact that someone does not “min/max” and dares to play “your” game incorrectly. How narrow minded and unoriginal, but I can’t please everyone though, so I fold.

Enjoy lording over everyone else with your magical internet kitten of greatness. I hope many phat lewtz and fast runz come your way. Woe be the noobz who cross your path, for their lives cut short and their dreams do shatter.

Stand TALL among those who have fallen, feel great and walk forward…tall…proud….a shining example to all humanity that greatness is in your grasp, for you are able to do what someone else has told you to do, and guard it well with blind eyes and deaf ears. Go onward, brainless and unafraid, spew forth the words that others have given to you and speak! spread the glory yet to unfold that is your legacy!

….ok I’m done being sarcastic, I gotta remember this is the internet and not to try to reason with people.

sigh

If you want to use math, then use numbers based on facts and not things arbitrarily made up.

Here is a list of potential damage modifiers based on trait points and power, considering both are wearing full zerker with scholars and wielding the greatsword and doing a whirling wrath, not counting bolts. (We can do sword too, but figured I would do the damage based off of whirling wrath cause people like to see that).

I also gave some leeway to the builds that would use empowering might and simulated 5 stacks of might on those ones specifically when totaling the power.

Keep in mind this does not take into account crit chance or sustained dps and real fight conditions, so these are just for the numbers and not to based your actual game play on.

The worst build that I mashed together did about 60% of the damage of the most optimal build a difference of 30% loss in damage (just for whirling wrath…not sustained dps or combat effectiveness).

So theoretically if a sucky build is 30% less effective than an optimal build, and an optimal build will do 10 “dps”, then a sub optimal build should do 6 “dps” or 60% of 10.

If the optimal build dies in 15 seconds, then in order for the sub-optimal build to out damage the optimal build they have to be alive and continue fighting for a total of 25 seconds.

The “best” AH build I have listed does 76% of the optimal damaging build with a difference of 24%.

So same scenario 76% of 10 = 7.6
10*15=150 damage done in 15 seconds
7.6*20=152 damage done in 20 seconds

You can pick and choose the duration of fight and length of time alive, to skew results any which way you please.

TLDR:
The point is/was that the meta is not “the most damaging” but it retains an optimal amount of damage while providing support and maintains, just enough survivability to finish most encounters.

If you find that survivability is not enough for your specific playstyle/group/reaction time, then adjust accordingly, but understand what you are sacrificing in team play in order to gain in self play.

crapgame, please don’t respond anymore if spoj retorts one more time, I won’t and its not productive for any of us. I probably shouldn’t have even put forth the effort I did in this post and let it die, but I was tired of the made up numbers

J Eberle.9312:

And no Obtena, I recommended a build and it just happened to meta, probably because it’s a good build.

It ‘s certainly a good build but the OP didn’t ask for that. He asked if AH was viable and for a comparable build. Answering with the meta doesn’t address either of those things because meta isn’t comparable to an AH build for the particular features he was looking for.

Meta is good but, it’s not the ‘do everything for everyone’ build people want to envision it to. Maybe if the meta club people spent more time fostering and paying attention to how people want to play the game, then those players would get better faster on their own terms.

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

Crapgame.6519:

Note the OP asked: “I’m looking to run a build for PvE solo and dungeon PvE that is pretty durable but can still dish out enough damage to not be worthless.”

Do you see optimal in that sentence?

We also don’t see “complete kitten”. He came to the forum seeking good advice. Not Crapgame/obetena/aste/kyubi approved advice

Not sure what you actually read there buddy but maybe take a step back and re-read?

Please enlighten me to my so-called bad or approved advise? If you replay saying simple math then we agree. Dead people don’t bring anything to the table and leave more work for their team mates (unless you are soloing something). This is actually common sense. I’m pretty sure I said I don’t care about the traits used.

Anything else you would like to talk about? Want a jelly roll or maybe me to send you an un-identified dye?

hendo.1940:

When obal tested whirling wraths on the magecrusher, one meta guardian dealt the same amount of damage as five AH cleric guards.

True. But the guys was talking about suboptimal build with good DPS. Aka something like a AH build with full zerker gear/scholar Runes, not full Defensive, Cleric build which is the worst possible DPS of the game.

I prefer someone using a bit of defense in their build (just as much as they need to stay alive most of the game), then someone who go full DPS but can’t handle it. Of course i prefer even more someone with a Full DPS build that stay alive whatever happen, but not every people is playing the game enough to be that good. Everybody should make that their target and work toward that goal, but you need to have a build that follow you current skill in the game and with your current profession.

J Eberle.9312:

You are making the assumption that the meta builds require a certain individual to be able to play them. They don’t.

I most certainly KNOW they do (I know plenty of people that can’t play meta) so it’s no assumption …. but that’s not even the most compelling argument here.

For me, the argument isn’t only about capability to play the meta, it’s about the reality that not everyone WANTS to play the meta. Based on these two things, I think it’s safe to say that if someone is asking about a non-meta build, they are probably in one or both of those categories. I feel that suggesting someone ignore how they want to play because meta exists is ridiculous.

I’m not pushing AH because you don’t like it or because I have an agenda … I’m advising on it because the OP asked! Unlike others, I’m NOT ignoring the OP’s request, despite my own bias.

He got advice. It’s just that some of that advice seemed to ignore what he was looking for. He didn’t ask to not be bad, he asked for a build that give AH-equivalent durability and not useless DPS. Some people took this as an invitation to push the DPS meta. That’s not being honest.

Problem I have with this is that it seems to be systematic with every build-advice thread. Regardless of what conditions people put on their request, they always seem to get the scripted DPS meta mantra. Maybe people should stop assuming that every request for advice is a plea to ‘stop being bad players’. That’s OK though, I don’t mind balancing this out for y’all.

AH build is viable and it’s only comparable equivalent is meditation heals. I get it … you guys have a hate thing for people that don’t run meta. At least you should be more honest about it. Then the OP will really know who to regard as useful info or .. political banter.

J Eberle.9312:

Obtena.7952:

swiftpaw.6397:

Well actually..

Tolmos.8395:

So do you guys know of any still viable altruistic healing builds for solo/dungeon PvE, or if not, do you know something comparable that you might suggest? Thanks!

Yep, he’s being helpful. <3

A full DPS build that depends on a players background for survival is comparable to a AH build? OK. I don’t think that’s the definition of comparable the OP is referring to. Sure you can compare them, but they don’t achieve the same thing. I guess the OP can decide.

It’s not a full dps build. This has been explained to you, whether you choose to ignore it or not is up to you.

I’m sure the OP has the ability to understand that 25 points in virtues is not ‘full dps’

That’s just semantics … comparing what you presented to AH builds is questionable, whatever name put to it. To me, it’s clear the OP is looking at something that gives him survival above and beyond the stuff that’s part of the base toolset, otherwise he wouldn’t be asking about AH.

Regardless, I’m sure the OP will take what value he wants from the thread. If he’s able to run the builds you presented and get the durability he wants from them, great. He should do that. I’m betting if he’s still talking about AH, that won’t happen and he should transition once he gains more experience and background with the content he’s doing.

The reality is that he should run whatever he wants because it doesn’t matter … PVE balance in GW2 isn’t based on BiS gear or optimized builds.

swiftpaw.6397:

Well actually..

Tolmos.8395:

So do you guys know of any still viable altruistic healing builds for solo/dungeon PvE, or if not, do you know something comparable that you might suggest? Thanks!

Yep, he’s being helpful. <3

A full DPS build that depends on a players background for survival is comparable to a AH build? OK. I don’t think that’s the definition of comparable the OP is referring to. Sure you can compare them, but they don’t achieve the same thing. I guess the OP can decide.

I use AH, because I can’t be bothered changing my traits everytime I want to do a FotM, dungeons, or WvW.

In a full zerk party, nobody will even notice you’re running AH (especially so if you have zerk armor/trinkets). In a non-zerk party, a zerk/DPS guardian will have trouble surviving unless you’re well experienced in that path, timing dodges, utilizing your blinds/traits/skills, etcetc. Considering I lfg most of my dungeon runs, I come across quite of a bit of these guards.

Long reply short, I find it just better to run AH at first and if you find yourself with max HP most of the time, then go with DPS builds like already suggested, having at least 15 in the precision line does a lot for your DPS.

J Eberle.9312:

Running AH does nothing for your team. And stacking does not somehow magically change this.

And this isn’t what the OP has asked so are you genuinely being helpful or is this just another soapbox attempt.

AH works if your team knows how to stack, otherwise it’s meh. If your team knows how to stack, then you are best off using hammer with AH. It’s pretty situational because if you are in PUG, it’s likely the won’t stack and run around trying to not die instead of owning stuff.

The trait point allocation suggested above are advanced. You need to know the dungeon, the mobs in it and be capable of dodging with the correct timing. If you can do that, then play them. You’re team will thank you for it. If you can’t, you’re only doing yourself and your team a disservice playing them. If you suck at them, consider something that will give you a bit more passive defenses like 15/15/0/20/20.

^^ That’s just not answering the OP’s question. AH is the most viable in stacking and gives the a very durable build in that scenario. That’s not debatable. The OP also wants to know comparable builds other than AH. While that’s a vague qualifier, I don’t think his intent was to be fed “DPS or FAIL at PVE” rhetoric with the suggestion to run THE highest DPS and questionably durable Guardian builds.

We’ve been through this before. The builds you gave require the player to be knowledge and skilled enough to be played in a manner to make up for any durability they lack in the stats. If the OP was this kind of player, this thread wouldn’t exist.

Frosch.7809:

ANet, how about you actually ASK your players if they want another League?

I am not sure the majority of players wants another League (doesn’t matter how it is called) or a meta achievement that rewards one green item more than last time, or weapon skins that no one wants to use.

Once again those servers that get the most transfers will win, and we can all already tell which ones that will be. Stacked servers will get more stacked, servers with a lower WvW population (the majority) will get bashed for 7 weeks and in the end WvW will become more unbalanced than it already is.

If asked if i wanted another League my answer would be NO. I never wanted one in the first place.

There’s a nice saying that comes to my mind about it, it starts with “Fool me once…”

That’s all i can say about it.

You know Anet only cares about PvE players. And all PvE players care about is loot. Anet doesn’t care that they are destroying servers like what season 1 did.

Congrats Blackgate players!

Mordecai.6318:

‘Cheese’ is a term used most commonly by scrubs

TL;DR
Shut up.

and with those two statements, you have shown yourself incapable of thoughtful, reasonable argument or conversation regarding this subject. I didn’t even need to bother reading the rest.

Kabooky.8071:

18k in a couple of seconds with zero risk. You are kidding me.

Sure im running all berserkers or rampagers, but im lucky if I crit for 4k. And I would need a miracle for someone to stand next to my warden long enough for it to crit up to 6k, assuming the wind didnt change and blow him away.

Also got hit by warriors kill shot for 11.6k today.

Ive had enough, ill level up my alt thief till this game becomes thief wars 2.

I would suggest that you go and play thief, as that class is aimed at less experienced or players new to the genre. Mesmer is more of a ‘high skill’ class with a hard learning curve.

Don’t feel bad, it’s just not for you that’s all.

Play a thief or warrior with the rest of the idi- errrr, I mean, the rest of the cool guys. Byebye now~

i’m hearing violin sound while you talking…
i kill here, i kill there, no problem blablabla but nerfnerfnerf.
If you can kill thieves good for you. Open the game and do that instead of forum warrioring in such childish way

To surmise the Livestream

Nothing
Nothing Nothing
Ascended drop chance increase in wvw/Teq (from 0.00001 to 0.00002)
Nothing
Quaggan

Sarrs.4831:

Atherakhia.4086:

In what way was Season 1 a success? I can’t think of a single thing they did right and I can’t think of a single reason I would ever consider participating in a second one.

It provided a structure and incentive for people to actually go to WvW and BE THE BEST THAT YOU CAN BE I guess is what I would say if I were him. Whether it actually did that is up for debate.

Personally, I enjoyed having some structure over the top of the matchup system and would welcome a Season 2, but more tweaking wouldn’t be unappreciated.

Now that was cute. Laughably naive, but cute. Season 1 provided a structure and incentive to actually go to a high pop server and BE PART OF THE LARGEST GROUP THAT YOU CAN. The top ten keys to winning in WvW (in season or otherwise), in order of priority, would look something like this:

1. highest population
2. highest population
3. highest population
4. highest population
5. highest population
6. greatest coverage 24/7
7. greatest coverage 24/7
8. greatest coverage 24/7
9. best server organization/communication
10. best commander knowledge/tactics

Being the best you can be as an individual wouldn’t even make the list.

Respond to reports and ban them. Perhaps Anet should try this technique. I think it just might work.

I’m almost always solo roaming, but most of the roaming is running away from large groups of gankers.

Imagine all signets, and save yourselves, ele auras, warr banners all popped at the same time. Think itd hit 3 bars of boons?