Guild Wars 2

Kanenas.4906:

So, I take it you have no more arguments then? OK

I already posted probably all arguments there are why your suggestions are unreasonable in my posts above, others did as well. If that isn’t enough for you, alright. If you keep ignoring everyone here and telling me I have no arguments, that’s fine as well. But don’t expect anyone here to be constructive anymore if you just ignore everything. That is just disrespectful.

Your ideas are horrible, since each class works different in this game and has different mechanics. If you want every class to be the same, you are probably playing the wrong game. I honestly thought you were jokinig with your previous post, that’s why did that as well.

Anyways. I’m out, since there isn’t much more to be said. If you’re looking for arguments, read the responses you got.

Why don’t we just copy Basilisk Venom over to Mesmer, rename it to Butterfly Venom and dye it purple?

So the Mesmer Elite should have the drawbacks of both Venom and Polymorph?
As I said – sure, make it stun breakable. Lower the duration if necessary. But I want that 36 second cooldown as well. You can’t just take one aspect of those skills and compare it. The Venom is stunbreakable and has lower duration because in the time where the Moa is on cooldown, you can use Basilisk Venom up to 5 times (5×36 seconds). That’s 7,5 seconds of complete immobilization of the enemy, or forcing the enemy to blow 5 stun breakers. How does that sound?

;-)

Kanenas.4906:

I think that Polymorph Moa skill is unbalanced and needs to be fixed, and I explain why I do so.

1. In 99% of the times it is cast it is an instant “I win” skill, since it lasts for 10 seconds and is followed with dazes, immobilizes, etc. There should NOT be an “I win” skill. Never.
Make the duration shorter, give the moa stability and condition immunity, so at least it could run away and have some chance to fight back.

2. 1200 range: It should be a 200 range max. Someone can cast it to you from above a tower, when you fight his friend at ground, without even realizing he was there.

3. It can be casted while the mesmer is in stealth. You cannot dodge a skill that you do not have an indication that is going to be used.

4. It has no counter, since while in moa form you have no utility skills. It should be stun breakable.
The thief’s elite skill “Basilisk Venom” has a duration of1.5 second and was fixed to be stun breakable, why the moa skill which has a duration of 10 seconds cannot?

1. Instant I Win button? Wut. If you’re morphed, you can still dodge AND got the evade/runaway/whatever skill. That’s plenty of opportunity to get some distance. Condition immunity and stability would literally be buffing the enemy. Why would any skill do that?

2. The range is fine – why? Cause you need LoS. More distance also means more LoS problems. Also, Mesmer isn’t a melee class. The long cast time + very obvious animation + 200 range would make the skill impossible to use, thinking of all the CC coming from melee classes these days. Mesmer doesn’t have that much stability, you know. Just because someone trolled you (why would you even engage a 1v1 near a keep while other enemies are watching you) doesn’t mean the skill needs to be ruined for everyone.

3. Same for backstab. It can be blocked, it can be evaded. You can’t expect the Mesmer to do nothing while in stealth. If you’re fighting a thief, you are also expecting an attack and preparing for that. Count how long the enemy is stealthed, dodge/block.

4. It can be blocked, it can be evaded. It’s a single target spell that will go on a full three minute cooldown if it misses (high risk/reward for the Mesmer). Talking about Basilisk venom, you’re comparing Moa to a skill which has 45 seconds cooldown and can be traited to have an even shorter one (36 seconds). Of course the venom duration isn’t that long. And why would Moa Morph be stun breakable? It isn’t a stun. As I said, you can still run away or dodge. Give me a 36 second cooldown on Moa and we’ll talk again lol.

although i play warrior mainly and i firmly believe that polymorph moa is well balanced, not broken, but working as intended.

1. In 99% of the times it is cast it is an instant “I win” skill, since it lasts for 10 seconds and is followed with dazes, immobilizes, etc. There should NOT be an “I win” skill. Never.
Make the duration shorter, give the moa stability and condition immunity, so at least it could run away and have some chance to fight back.

duration 10 seconds is acceptable, given the long activation time and recharge time.

this skill is never “i win” anyway. especially in 1 vs 1 situations.
against certain professions maybe but for my warrior the only times i died from it is when they have more people.

10 seconds duration is very short, and you can fight back, using the moa skills. or run away as well.

condition immunity is totally uncalled for. you were forcefully morphed into a bird, to my knowledge, moa birds are not immune to conditions.

2. 1200 range: It should be a 200 range max. Someone can cast it to you from above a tower, when you fight his friend at ground, without even realizing he was there.

200 range? this is a mesmer spell, 1,200 range is acceptable. 200 melee range is ridiculous.

3. It can be casted while the mesmer is in stealth. You cannot dodge a skill that you do not have an indication that is going to be used.

good combination. this is working as intended. some things are not meant to have counters.

4. It has no counter, since while in moa form you have no utility skills. It should be stun breakable.

nope. you got turned into a bird. accept that for 10 seconds and move on.
you realize if you have aegis you can block the moa morph.
and if the mesmer is blind, the moa morph will miss.

The thief’s elite skill “Basilisk Venom” has a duration of1.5 second and was fixed to be stun breakable, why the moa skill which has a duration of 10 seconds cannot?

because mesmers are not thieves, and thieves are not mesmers.

and lastly, you must be a necro minion master player.
moa moprh is balanced, not broken.

would you kindly please accept it and move on?
thank you.

Chaos.3579:

however even if those builds were brought back to their viable state PU would still be a issue.
…
however it was not used alot and was a rare sight to see
the reason people did not use it was because it was in the grandmaster section which i think was somewhat unjustified. if arena net wanted to promote diversity they should have moved the trait to the master section. not buff it to insanity.

snip

You have made my argument for me.

If the other build types were made more viable, then you wouldn’t see PU builds at all because its very deep in an otherwise low synergy, unfocused tree. It would literally cost too many points to take in other builds, and taking it forces you into a winning but not very fulfilling play style.

calavel.6249:

Joonks

Except stealth is a main feature of the class. This post is a pretty great example of how people make arguments to nerf something that they really don’t understand.

Nonsense.

One weapon skill on base 30s CD. Two utility skills, 40/90s CD. One elite, 180s, obviously not designed for single-target. Not tied to class mechanics in any way. A single GM trait tied to stealth (The dueling stealth trait counter-acts a stealth-heavy build. It’s also broken and has a horrendous CD).

Yes, we have stealth. No, it is not in any way imaginable a main class feature.

The fact that mesmer stealth is 75% utilities and elite should tell you all you need to know.

Your argument for why it isn’t a key feature of the class is the same as my argument for why it is. Four different ways of accessing stealth, one of which should really count twice (veil) makes it seem prominent to me.

Not going to argue the semantics of “main class feature” with you so I guess we can just agree to disagree.

Pyroatheist.9031:

It’s pretty simple. People don’t like to lose 1v1 fights. PU builds happen to be very strong in 1v1 fights. Therefor, people love to complain about PU.

Quoting this because it’s true.

calavel.6249:

What’s wrong with PU?

It’s a grandmaster trait (XII) in the arguably overall worst trait line mesmers have (chaos), yet everyone is running it. That alone should tell you that something’s wrong.

PU is a sad and continuing attempt to hide the fact that the Chaos line has bad synergy, both with itself and the rest of the lines.
PU turns stealth, a mechanic that is not a main feature of the class into a very powerful tool. When a class that’s not based around stealth suddenly gets a lot more of it combined with aegis-regen-prot spam you get a broken class.

Except stealth is a main feature of the class. This post is a pretty great example of how people make arguments to nerf something that they really don’t understand.

Chaos.3579:

Hedger.9261:

Chaos.3579:

the argument is not about builds more so then it is about diversity

pyros argument was “One trait/set of builds has absolutely no significance on the potential diversity of a class,”

although it does not effect “potential” diversity that does not mean it does not effect what the diversity of builds you will see players using when playing the game.

…snip…

the problem with your argument is that its not the fault of PU that its the best option of the builds. The other builds have been trimed and nerfed to the point where there is no point in using them. The diversity has been killed because everytime we find something that works the devs make a point of carving it out of existance…

i would agree and disagree with this. yes i think the devs have nerfed some unjustified things breaking specific specks and pigeonholing us in to meta builds. however even if those builds were brought back to their viable state PU would still be a issue….

If those builds were brought back to their once viable states, then more people would be using them rather than PU builds. You seem to keep willfully ignoring the fact that the reason so many people are playing PU builds is because it’s the only really viable option right now, that makes the class worthwhile to play in at least two areas of the game, wvw roaming and spvp. And as been pointed out countless times, there’s plenty of classes that can take on and beat a PU mesmer if they have any skill at playing their classes. Right now, nerfing PU would not force mesmers to play more skillfully and thus elevate the class as a whole, which seems to be your contention; it would simply make the class even more broken, because there wouldn’t be really any reasons left to choose playing a mesmer over another class, except of course as a portal bot.

Chaos.3579:

the argument is not about builds more so then it is about diversity

pyros argument was “One trait/set of builds has absolutely no significance on the potential diversity of a class,”

although it does not effect “potential” diversity that does not mean it does not effect what the diversity of builds you will see players using when playing the game.

…snip…

the problem with your argument is that its not the fault of PU that its the best option of the builds. The other builds have been trimed and nerfed to the point where there is no point in using them. The diversity has been killed because everytime we find something that works the devs make a point of carving it out of existance…

Raunchy.6891:

I’m wondering why you mentioned healing signet when it has literally nothing to do with the build a warrior could be running. Just like a majority of mesmers run ether feast, or how most necros run consume conditions, a majority (if not all) warriors run healing signet because it’s the superior heal, it’s not the sign of some specific build.

Yeah, it’s not exactly the most sensible argument. I’m just too tired to write up another detailed response to his gibberish.

I’m wondering why you mentioned healing signet when it has literally nothing to do with the build a warrior could be running. Just like a majority of mesmers run ether feast, or how most necros run consume conditions, a majority (if not all) warriors run healing signet because it’s the superior heal, it’s not the sign of some specific build.

Chaos.3579:

PU in terms of survivability is just as strong in dueling as it is in every other PVP apsect of the game that players can participate in. wvw, small scale fights, gvg, 1v?, roaming, ect.

Which is why we see tons of mesmers in all these aspects of pvp right? Oh wait…

Chaos.3579:

there are no counters or tactics that even half of the class’s can use to counter PU survivability,

Aside from things like boon strip or aoe?

Chaos.3579:

no way to counter disengagement potential,

PU gives no boost to disengagement potential. 1 second of stealth duration means nothing for a disengage. All disengagement potential for mesmer comes from other tools appropriately used.

Chaos.3579:

and no way to counter sustained dps potential through illusions while remaining undetectable and untargetable through a long and extended chain of stealths

Sustained dps potential through illusions? Don’t make me laugh. You’ve got at best 1 high damage phantasm (since a PU build will be using torch). It takes a second or two of dpsing to kill a phantasm from a PU build, so care to enlighten us as to where this sustained dps potential is coming from?

Chaos.3579:

thus why would someone use something thats less effective and takes more skill?

Less effective at what exactly? PU builds are horrible at active application of burst damage, PU phantasm builds are just as bad as normal phantasm builds in 1vX, they just die slower, PU builds are locked 30 points into a selfish trait line and so offer little utility to groups, where’s all this effectiveness coming from?

Chaos.3579:

so in order to preserve viable diversity among the users of the Mesmer profession this trait needs a nerf/major functionality change or we will watch as the majoirty of mesmer builds are devolved in to a meta based on utilizing the survivability staple that stealth combined with this trait provides….oops seems this has already happened.

Cute. The lack of build diversity stems from the fact that almost no mesmer builds are viable at anything currently, not from the existence of a single trait as you seem to think.

One trait/set of builds has absolutely no significance on the potential diversity of a class, arguments otherwise make absolutely no sense. Different mesmer builds are good at different things, and people choose them for those reasons. The existence of builds that are good at surviving (PU builds) has absolutely no relevance on the viability of builds that are good at aoe burst damage (shatter) or aoe condition damage (glamour), single target damage (phantasm), lockdown (lockdown) or any others that I’m not thinking of right now. All of those builds are non-viable for separate and distinct reasons. Your attempt to conflate their non-viability with the existence of PU falls flat as a poor guise for your odd hatred of the trait.

There’s nothing wrong with the PU trait, some people just need to get over themselves.

The problem comes down to this:

1. Players like to engage in 1v1 or other smallscape PvP, no matter how infeasible it is in RPGs.
2. Mesmers spec PU because it’s so useful in 1v1.
3. People don’t like dying.
4. It’s ANet’s fault (it always is).

PU stands for the prismatic understanding trait that is at the grandmaster level in the chaos line. It extends stealth duration by one second and it grants one of three boons for every second you are in stealth.

Generally the complaining you see about it is from other players who feel it is overpowered. The complaints typically come down to three underlying reasons:
- they just don’t like stealth and complain about any use of stealth (and probably complain about thieves as well)
- they don’t like a particular build that uses the PU trait called the Blackwater build – this build has weaknesses if you bother to learn about it (including just running away) but when people mindlessly attack the clones in this build, they will lose
- they don’t like that one of the possible boons under stealth is aegis – so the Mesmer coming out of stealth will typically get a free block on the first attack

I think that’s a pretty fair synopsis

I lay there even when I know there’s no one in there to res me. It’s fun to watch three or four people stand around watching my corpse whilst I cook tea or do the dishes.

I’m hoping the finale will give us a small mini dungeon or an actual ’’Difficult’’ boss like tequatl/Triple wurms. The current update is yet again mindless zerging and pressing 1, overwhelming the enemy NPC’s and spamming the loot key right after. While the thought of saving citizens is nice, it doesn’t help as much as to just drone around in a zerg and complete events.

A missed chance in my opinion!

FearedbytheGods.8617:

goldenwing.8473:

That the BG folks are some of the friendliest, welcoming players I have met in a long time.

Then perhaps I should clarify.

It’s typically a BG player that will post a ‘2v1 thread’ or in your case commenting on being outmanned when you come from THE server least likely to not have that problem. It comes across as having no perspective.

Compare PariahX.6970 post to yours. He takes a holistic approach and attempts to give people a sense of the bigger picture and what might be happening on other servers rather than simply saying “On my server…….”.

My apologies if my post came across as self-serving, self-focused or lacking perspective.

I’m actually horrified that it came across that way since I often try to provide perspective myself. Which is what I was trying to do with my abbreviated, obviously poorly worded attempt to point out that even high pop servers have coverage issues.

I did not feel I had the authority to speak for other servers.

goldenwing.8473:

This last weekend, with the American holiday, it was a zergablobby fest from JQ and TC, particularly Monday night.

You don’t have American’s on BG? Only TC and JQ zergblobby? Why are you talking about Season 1? You were ‘Almost always’ outnumbered then too? You realise you won seasons.

Look……….. if you are ever outnumbered its because your map hoppers left the map and left scouts only and/or your fair weather players have given up. Your server hovers around full status, which isn’t the case for any other server. So you have the numbers on your server, you should get the people into WvW.

I will be honest at this point in that your post comes across as a wall of text substantiated by a group think mentality. I have to say the culture on BG fascinates me. It strikes me as very insular and self perpetuating in its nature.

cortin.9174:

Speaking as someone who recently moved to a tier 1 server, that $25 was the best $25 I’ve spent in entertainment in awhile. For me it was either spend $25 to server transfer, or quit the game. I was having fun in WvW, when the server had good WvW participation and good leadership. But ever since some guilds transferred off, it just hasn’t been fun for at least a couple of weeks straight. Of course all these server transfers just entices Anet to not fix these coverage/participation/imbalance issues with WvW.

Highlighted the important part.

I’m glad you’re enjoying a better gameplay experience, but every person that pays a transfer fee is basically just agreeing with Anet’s “Pay us or get kittened” stance on WvW.

That would depend on who owns the keep. If it’s mine, you’re griefing. If it’s your keep? I’m playing the game as intended. I hope that helps.

For the same reason they don’t use MySpace I imagine.

Because Google+ sucks.

Guild Wars 2 – Now on Google+
“follow us on google+”

NO.