Showing Posts Upvoted By tronjeremy.5820:

The Reality of New Leaderboard Algorithm

in PvP

Posted by: Chaith.8256

Chaith.8256

Hi folks. As you know, the leaderboards reset on Friday, and a new algorithm was implemented that reflected: “a much stronger focus on wins, with less weight given to the sheer number of games played over a period of time.”

Immediately that sounded like great news to me. I thought the 2 or so individuals equipped with in-chair toiletry and an overhead feed dispenser tube would be finally be overcame as the holders of the Arenanet given titles, “leaders of PvP.”

So now it’s Sunday morning, and there’s been 2 sleeps since the leaderboard reset, I check it out to see how things are progressing.

So, the #1 guy on NA has logged 104 games at the time of this post. If you factor in the two, 8hr sleeps we’ve had, that means for every waking hour, they’ve completed 5 games that hour. Impressive. The guy has 61 points. 55 wins and 49 losses, and 52.88% win rate.

I look at the very close #2 guy on NA, and he has 59 points. 56 wins, and 26 losses, for a 68.29% win rate.

There is not a darn thing that the #1 guy has over the #2 guy, besides twice the amount of losses, of course.

How is this explainable by the language used to describe the new Algorithm? There is a disconnect between reality and expectations here. This is not a focus on win ratio (maximizing wins, minimizing losses) at all. This is still just a focus on farming wins.

After a little research, what was changed was the ability to gain points from losses was nerfed.

What needed to happen to give any credibility to these leaderboards are for losses to affect you negatively.

Having more points than you have wins? How does going 50 wins and 50 losses in a low MMR bracket result in 60 points? Shouldn’t it be slightly closer to um, 0 points than 60 points? (Not saying it should be zero gain, but just a very very very slow gain.) Am I the only one taking crazy pills here?

Since losing games still doesn’t matter at low MMR levels, it’s still simply a matter about how many wins can be farmed, and losses are disregarded. Look at the #1 and #2 players on NA leaderboards to see this is true.

At low MMR, any amount of defeats are never going to negatively affect accumulated points. If you repeatedly lose, sure, you’re not getting wins, but fast queue times allow you to do 4-5 per hour intead of 2.5-3 at high MMR. On a model that’s still 100% based on how many wins you can grind, now instead of how many wins and losses you can grind, it’s really not changed anything.

That brings me to touch on the experiences of a high MMR players.

  • As a high MMR solo, or duo in Ranked queue, you’re a beacon that pulls all middle to high tier teams against you, magnifying the imbalances that matchmaking can’t account for, teamspeak/coordination, high performance comp. High MMR solo queue has a severely handicapped win rate. Personally, I find it unplayable due to the extreme pressure/frustration to shepherd players with widely fluctuating experience and effectiveness, against a coordinated foe.
  • As a high MMR four queue, the 5th player is often going to be the equilivant of an assassin’s amulet 6/6/0/0/1 Staff Elementalist who’s taking their first baby steps of the game, creating frustration for this one player, and essentially a 4v5 scenario. It’s a handicap that is quite annoying, and will always be a clear decision for the group to simply picking up a competent 5th.
  • This leads to the realization that medium to high MMR players can only attempt to achieve quality matches, with a competitive win rate representative of their skill, without severe handicaps, when they queue as a full group. This further limits group playtime to a couple hours a day, where a group of 5 competent players can be organized and continuously play. This creates a further disadvantage in win farming compared to low MMR solo queuers.
  • High MMR gameplay in any size incurs a 6-10 Minute queue time. This drastically reduces leaderboard point generation. We’re talking like, low MMR players can fit 4-5 in a leaderboard update, and high MMR players can fit 2-3. It’s cut by around 33-40%. I can’t stress enough that this is an entirely unfair and imbalanced mechanic that nearly ruins the balance of who can farm more wins, which the current rankings are now based on.

If I could make anything clear from this wall of text on my matchmaking / leaderboard thoughts, it is that:

It’s wrong that rapid fire, low MMR, low quality, imbalanced matches, are the optimal way to progress towards mastering the leaderboards. It’s so completely backwards and nonsensical. High MMR players are punished in almost every way, unless they form a premade which is the other extreme, totally circumventing all balance handicaps, often facing non-premades with only a few good players, who have to carry ridiculously hard to win. Leaderboard progress at no point ever, will reflect the progress in mastering the game, or becoming stronger.

Forum Lord Chaith
Twitch.tv/chaithh
New Twitter: @chaithhh

(edited by Chaith.8256)

Class swap gives no win...

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Posted by: DanzelOPP.5068

DanzelOPP.5068

Why not make it so if there are more than 2 of 1 class…have a box pop up for the 3 people if 1 would like to switch classes with no penalty? I understand the mentality of not having buildwars…but most likely if you have 3 of anything its probably not going to benefit you in anyway.

B O I N K

No reason for me to keep doing pvp...

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Posted by: DanzelOPP.5068

DanzelOPP.5068

@ OP “Welcome to the internet”.

B O I N K

Go with the Flow

in PvP

Posted by: Josh Davis.6015

Previous

Josh Davis.6015

New blog by The Lesh Prince details the upcoming changes to how you get into a PvP match:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/go-with-the-flow/

[NA] Solid Thief LF Dedicated Team

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Posted by: Skovos.6509

Skovos.6509

Tron Jeremy Best Thief [NA]

Josh Foreman's Tips for Constructive Feedback

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Posted by: Justin ODell.9517

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Justin ODell.9517

PvP Server Programmer

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Hey guys, Josh (of SAB fame) offered some really good tips in another sub-forum. Since they were buried on page 20 I figured it would be a good idea to post a link to them here.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Collaborative-Development/page/20#post3007420

Does anyone else have any similar advice for us developers? What ways we can make collaborating easier for you? What things are we already doing that you enjoy? What would you like to see more of?

Server Programmer (sPvP)
Isle of Janthir: Flux, Latch, Aegir

Collaborative Development

in CDI

Posted by: Josh Foreman

Previous

Josh Foreman

Environment Design Specialist

Next

Hi everybody! Chris is encouraging a new era of developer/player interaction which I’m pretty excited about. So I’ll add my 2 cents to this thread. I don’t speak for all devs, but here’s what I personally would find most helpful…

Josh Foreman’s Tips for Constructive Feedback:

1. It’s most helpful if you state your request or actionable item at the top. Then your reasons below. This helps us find and reference your post, pass it around for discussion, etc.

2. Don’t assume the reason that things are the way they are due to developer incompetence, laziness, apathy, stubbornness, greed, selfishness, lust or any of the other deadly sins. There are other possibilities beside developer personal defects. “Just” changing one thing usually has ramifications on other things that are hard to anticipate. An MMO is an incredibly complex web of interdependencies, and tweaking any individual part runs the risk of breaking many other parts. That’s why we don’t typically jump to instant ‘fixes’ (even though it’s tempting!) and why things that seem like obvious problems can take a lot longer to address than many would intuitively think they should. There is no MAKE IT WORK button that we refuse to push out of spite. Even if that were the case, it just doesn’t make sense to insult the party you are requesting something from. In what part of the real world does that ever work? No one wants to ‘slap you in the face’ or make the game less fun. We love you guys, and are thrilled that people play our game!

3. Don’t assume that we can just rearrange resources to work on your particular issue. Most of our teams are very specialized. It takes a long time to build the experience necessary to be a good productive member of the PvP, Story, Systems, or any other team. Just because we have X programmers working on bug fixes and Y working on Gameplay improvements, doesn’t mean we can arbitrarily move those numbers around. It’s just not that simple.

4. Please stop calling us liars when we fail to implement something we intended to months ago, but for some technical, balance, or other reason found it to be untenable. We can’t be very open about our plans if every word we say is taken as a contractual obligation. Imagine if every word you said to your friends were recorded and played back at the most inopportune time in order to make you look like a fool. You’d probably clam up pretty quickly. Making an MMO, especially one as experimental as GW2 requires… experimenting. Requires making plans, following through, finding dead ends, back-tracking and trying something else. Sometimes that means that we will state a clear goal, test it internally and find out it just won’t work. The idea that this means we don’t have a clear vision is wrong. There is a difference between a core vision for our design principles, and the implementation of specific systems. We are very clear about the mountain we want to scale, but whether we do it in 4×4, on foot, with a grappling hook, or a hot air balloon are all contingent on the terrain we discover as we progress.

5. You are not “all players”. Please stop saying “Players want X” just because you want X. The fact is that players want X, Y, Z, and the rest of the alphabet, and most of those desires conflict with each other. And I guarantee you, anything that the vast majority of the players want, we (as players of our own game) also want. If you don’t understand why something the vast majority of players and the devs want is not implemented, see the above points 2-4. I have a people-pleaser mentality, so this is one of the hardest pills for me to swallow as a developer. I want EVERYONE to be happy. Unfortunately, the rules of the real world make that impossible.

So there you go. That’s my advice. I really believe that devs and players can work together in a healthy way. And this is my advice for making that a reality. Thanks for reading!

[NA] YourFriendMarvin LFT Updated 11/5/2014

in Looking for...

Posted by: YourFriendMarvin.4127

YourFriendMarvin.4127

I can play all professions with 300+ tournament wins with thief, necro, ranger, and guardian. All champion titles, and I can fill in any role. I main thief, and I have full understanding of each class and their mechanics. I know when to peel and rotate, map awareness, and I call out things in VoIP. I have the most tourney wins in NA, so I have tons of experience with tourneys. Looking to play during NA Prime Times, since the people I normally play with don’t get on until late night. Looking for people who have similar understanding with game mechanics, map awareness, and class mechanics. I don’t want to play with ragers, but people who can have fun with a serious mindset.
Teef-Miràjáne/Lovely Mirajane
Ranger- Kiyomi Gwiyomi
Guard- When Our Lips Touch
Necro- Purest Form of Love/ T O K I M O N S T A
Elementalist: Hi Chew/Digums (Quad Sig Wonder)
Engineer: Make Love Not Bombs

Edit: I was Rank 71 before April 15th Patch, can’t edit title.
I am looking for a team that is capable and can contend with the other top teams. I am going to be straight up, because I am looking for teams that already know their mechanics and how the conquest mode works.

Edited: 11/5/2014

#MostTeamQueueWins before December 2nd, 2014 Patch
[NA]Rank 71 before April 15th, 2014 Feature Patch OG Moltres, 10k Champion Brawler, Team PZ
http://www.twitch.tv/yourfriendmarvin

(edited by YourFriendMarvin.4127)

Lets all chip in and Buy NCsoft

in PvP

Posted by: Cruuk.1824

Cruuk.1824

ill throw down 20 bucks whos with me!

lets fix PVP once and for all. Im guessing a few weeks of hard work should do the trick

State of Game Balance - Guardian Perspective

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Posted by: cymerdown.4103

cymerdown.4103

Hey, guys. Today, Arken Elric and I did a webcast (perhaps the first of several), discussing the game from a Guardian perspective in sPvP. We first talked about the different specs available to Guardians, the things these specs do well, and things they may be lacking to be more effective. Later we moved on to the various other classes and how the Guardian stacks up to the different builds we encounter in sPvP. We started off the discussion just the two of us, but later on we were joined by various other members of the NA sPvP community (including Bear, Countless, Blinx, Cruuk, and Wakkey), and got their valuable input as well. If you’re interested in sPvP balance discussion, you won’t want to miss it! Link below:

http://www.twitch.tv/arken_elric/b/466823707

As should be obvious, the contents of the webcast are only our opinions, and shouldn’t be taken as anything other than that. If you have your own opinions, feel free to share! If you like what we’ve done, feel free to follow Arken to show your support and to be part of future podcasts, as we always try to include the viewers in the discussion.

Kensuda (Bunker Guardian)
Bunker Guardian Guide
Twitch Stream

(edited by cymerdown.4103)

Two Handed Weapon Sigils

in PvP

Posted by: Roy Cronacher

Roy Cronacher

Game Designer

Next

Hey guys,

We agree with you. This has been something that has been greatly discussed and is definitely on our radar. There isn’t a time frame set yet, but I just just wanted to let you know it is something we are looking to change for the future. Sorry I can’t give more details at this time.

Twitter: @RoyCronacher
I work on systems, combat, skills, and balance.

Simple Suggestions for a Bigger Community

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Posted by: Xom.9264

Xom.9264

Simple deathmatch if its not too late.

Xomox ~Human Necro/Engineer ET

SPVP Stream compilation

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Posted by: Django.5923

Django.5923

Hey guys,

There was a thread called “spvp streams” where all the streams where listed. But the newest comment on it is 8 months old and more then half of the streams is offline because ppl quit or are just not streaming anymore (or not streaming GW2).
So I tought I open this again, because I really liked that list.
“If you want to be added to the list please post it here and I will add you. Thanks everyone!!!” + please also post if you’re quitting or offline forever.

(I listed all the streams from the old list with videos not more than 2 month old. If I missed you, plz just write here again.)

I will try to keep this list up to date. Quality over quantitiy!

NA (EU on page 2)

See who is streaming right now!

Multiclass Stream
http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2pvptv – various players
http://www.twitch.tv/dtdhegemony -Hegemony
http://www.twitch.tv/oliverbrix – Brix
http://www.twitch.tv/parisalchuk – Parisalchuk
http://www.justin.tv/tundera – Tundera

Elementalist
http://www.twitch.tv/blinxpvp – Batmang
http://.twitch.tv/cmcgw2 – cmc

Engineer
http://www.twitch.tv/ostricheggs – Ostrich Eggs
http://www.twitch.tv/chaithh – Five Gauge
http://www.twitch.tv/ObiRx – Obi

Guardian
http://www.twitch.tv/legendarylukeee – Lily Rosethorn
http://www.twitch.tv/doyourbestbear – DoYourBestBear
http://www.twitch.tv/jaxsilven – Silven
http://www.twitch.tv/mademptygirl – Ishana

Mesmer
http://www.twitch.tv/hansawesome – Supcutie
http://www.twitch.tv/bringyourfriends – Countless

Necromancer
http://www.twitch.tv/giibbly – Gibbly

Ranger

Thief
http://www.twitch.tv/narcarsis – Caed
http://www.twitch.tv/loljumper – Jumper
http://www.twitch.tv/nosuchthingashalfwaycruuk – Cruuk
http://www.twitch.tv/jaafce – Titiublack
http://www.twitch.tv/00ace00 – Ace

Warrior
http://www.twitch.tv/tarcisanastasis – Anas Tarcis

(edited by Django.5923)

Sad :(

in PvP

Posted by: Deimos Tel Arin.7391

Deimos Tel Arin.7391

maybe people just dun want conquest.