Guild Wars 2

nearlight.3064:

One of the NA WTS Power Necros is running D/D Axe/WH, which is interesting.

And I will say that focus is just meh to me because spinal shivers is such a slow easy to dodge skill. Yet such a wonderful passive proc.

No one takes Focus for Spinal Shivers (maybe when Reaper comes out) but Reapers Touch is a skill worth taking Focus for. Its that good. For a single target I can put 16 stacks of Vun wit 1 skill gain a ton of LF and regeneration to boot. Its a godly skill

Spinal Shiver evem though slow is not bad with boon removal and chill. Its just not ultra spamable..

That said Focus pairs with Axe because in a short time with Reapers Touch and axe1 I can solo stack 25 stacks of vun in a short time. not shabby. If my chill from Spinal hits I’m detroying my target with my dagger/wells in seconds. Not to mention that RT & Axe2 replenish LF super quick

As said before Axe is a good complementing 2nd weapon that could be a primary weapon with tweeks

Playing Dagger/WH & Axe/Focus my current build evolved from the Hybrid necro (thanks Nemesis) which used scepter as main and axe as the secondary. I found the Axe to be more fun and made a full power build adding more power and toughness to survive close and getting rid of most condition dmg. Also switching in and out of DS for might and more vun stacks. The last part is important because I had intended to use Axe as my main weapon and Dagger as may second. Turns out I went the other way around and now use axe for exactly the same thing as the Hybrid build which is to quickly regain LF and stack vun. But in this build its more to do so while stepping out of melee to readjust or kiting.

The feeling I get with Axe is it’s 3 skills are almost all good.. but that’s the problem. All 3 of them are lacking. Not a lot individually but when all 3 skills on a weapon fall short, even just a little, you stop using that weapon.

1. Rending claws is a good idea. It just always felt slow to me.
2. I personally love Ghastly Claws and in the right circumstances (considering reaper touch can stack a TON of vun in a short time and I stack vun and might in DS) I can burst pretty high with my build and get a ton of LF back too. But under pressure those circumstances don’t always happen.
3. Unholy Feast need more damage and I’d prefer it with better range

All in all Axe is an ok second weapon and having Axe/Focus gives a LOT of Vun stacking with good LF regeneration. It would need some work to be a primary weapon. Not bad as just a utility but sucks if you really like the mid range play style

I also like the current system but I do think there should be ways to get LF without the use of nearby deaths or engaging other players. I have a few ideas of my own to help improve the LF issue.

1. Let the death of minions give you LF even when you kill them yourself. Flesh Wurm and Bone Minions should be a personal source of LF. Summon destroy absorb
2. Have a minor trait (or better yet make baseline) that regeneration also gives you LF
3. Have a Master Trait in Soul Reaping that just passively renews LF while out of DS.
4. Give us an Elite skill or better yet an F2 key that lets necros perform a ritual to regain LF gaining Invunerability & Retaliation for a couple seconds and completely recharges LF (comparable to the Guardian elite ‘Renewed Focus’ that recharges virtues).

I can probably think of more but even 1 or 2 of these would be a big help to roaming necros and most will help in PvP as well.

OK instead of all minions being redone the way I proposed how about just 1 or 2 new minion skills that use this mechanic.. OR more likely a MM focused elite specialization in the future that uses this system.. call it The Dark Lord? I still think getting extra skills (or sub skills) is never a bad thing because it opens up lots more combos making us less predictable.

Ok how about the do something to get MMs more minions. I mean I really don’t feel like I control an undead “hoard” with 5 or 6 minions. How about a trait that lets you summon 2 weaker minions (say 25% weaker) per summon, call it Undead Hoard. I was reading how MMs have been using their minions as a distraction in PvP because its hard to target the master with so many other enemies on the board. double the minions double the trouble?.. Thoughts?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Full-MM-Ranked-Team-vid-inside/first#post5118196

L Step.8659:

Ideas like this, and the whole necro having no mobility, and being really cool and slow all make it great thematically. But Anet keeps shoving the thematics so much they aren’t realizing it isn’t meshing with how game modes and other professions are designed. That’s been a problem since the game started.

Like it all sounds cool on paper, but it never practically pans out in any way shape or form. That’s probably why you see so many people ask for things other professions have because they just want to be viable or as useful.

You can keep theme and still give useful things. Like dark path is mobility. But they had to make the projectile slower than even a necro so it’s terrible mobilty. Necros can have blast finishers without being some clunky minion wasting a utility slot. Stuff like that needs to be fixed. And for the love of God let heals come through death shroud, it’s not a second life bar, we are selfish not stubborn we need friends to keep us alive in PvP :<

I think you’re the only one who gets what I was trying to say on this board. Guys my numbers are not set but ANET keep sacrificing necros viability for style. I can respect that they don’t want all the classes exactly the same but there are ways to keep style theme and mechanics all in sync. That’s all I suggested with my ideas to look at GW1 as inspiration (not just mechanics). They pulled it off in GW1 why can’t they do it here?

Why do you think they are awful? I mean who doesn’t like more options? BTW I posted a more fleshed out(pun intended) version of my MM idea in a separate thread.

An idea that would help fix MMs is more minion abilities. Instead of just 1 ability, minions should have up to 3 abilities that replace either your main or off hand weapon skills. (kinda like engineers with their kits) Thematically it’s like you need to concentrate to fully control your minions. This would solve the “dumb” minion problem. This would leave you slightly vulnerable without personal attacks but could open lots of of new play styles. If you control 2 minions at the same time the middle skill becomes a fusion of their abilites.

When you don’t hit the control minion skill they just do the regular dumb attacks they normally do.

Example: Flesh Worm could have
Necrotic Transversal: Same skill
Flesh Whip: a cleaving attack to all in radius
Burrow: the flesh wurm travels to a designated location

Bone minions could have
Putrid Explosion: same skill
Bite: a vampiric attack
Hellish Twins: Both gain swiftness and attack the same target with burning attacks.

Teamed up skill could be called Bone Cannon where the Wurm shoots the Bone Minions as projectile Putrid Explosions.

Comments Please.
Note this is idea crafting. No numbers on the mechanics just ideas to improve things.

Sigmoid.7082:

This is exactly the problem. Your idea of what a necro should be is different to the vision the devs have for the class. Yours is killing yourself to do damage and when you do do more things and theirs is a class that get stronger the weaker the enemy gets, good for attrition and outlasting and lots of debilitating effects.

With the trait/spec changes coming to the core professions their vision will be better realised due to things being changed from on kill to % threshold, siphons working through shroud , numbers tweaked on some skills and all the flat % damage reduction we can atain.

My idea isn’t only killing myself to do damage. I’m suggesting an option for make skills and abilities we’ve all been asking for work within the necro theme. Blood is Power and a few other skills no one uses already have this sacrifice theme in place. BiP sacrifice can even benefit a necro who knows how to play it. Besides that I don’t mean to always die. You can sarifice part of your life or Lp or whatever as long as you plan around it and it does more good than harm. As the devs say all the time it will take testing to get the balance and numbers right but the theme could work into whats already established.

Let me explain theme +mechanics. The devs say they want Reaper to be like a movie monster (Think Jason or Nemesis) that’s hard to stop. Imagine a skill that refills your endurance but gives you stacks of bleeding (like Blood is Power does). A crafty necro then consumes or transfers conditions. Make the dodge animation for reaper one that stays on his feet instead of rolls and you have an intimidating figure who’s willing to be hurt or even hurt themselves to get the result. For mobility we get a teleport that’s fast instant cast etc. But you and your opponent take damage or burning like I suggested each time you do so. Think Scorpion for MK going through hell to teleport and now bring some hellfire with you. Yes this is like the Guardian skill but works more for a necro theme with a slight change the sacrifice. As for my “necro bombs” so to speak, the idea is that they be overpowered to the point that killing a necro makes the other person risk dying doing so. The mechanics would have to be seriously thought out but imagine the psychological aspect of a suicide necro. Teams would think twice about piling on the necro for fear that they take down 1 opponent and lose the whole team. I don’t know about anyone here but I think necros should naturally be the strongest class in the downed state. Add in traits to help necros get up faster and do much more downed damage. That way necro bombs are not an automatic death sentence. No matter what unless we get a true role that makes us stand out and needed necros will be overlooked for team no matter how cool we are. As it is now we are Jack of MOST trades masters of none.. and everyone wants specialists.

BTW no one commented on my idea for fixing MM. It’s not a sacrifice or thematic thing. Pure mechanics. Feedback please.

There are parts of other major traits that should be baseline and then maybe boosted by the major trait. DS and RS should both have baseline regeneration and a stun break. Unholy Sanctuary and Foot in the Grave are Master traits so making them baseline is probably not going to happen but giving some regeneration and a much needed stun break is reasonable.

Also some more ways to get lifeforce. Reapers Precision is so weak it should be baseline as well as a stripped down version of Spectral Armors LF gain say 1% from hits baseline instead of 8%

Of course I know this isn’t GW1. I’m saying draw inspiration from GW1 to make necros unique but still relevant. What do necros need? Mobility, Sustainability and Damage? How do we do that without clearly ripping off skills from other classes. That’s what ANET has been trying to figure out. Now Necro players complain about everything and most complainers just want a combination of Mesmer, Guardian, Thief and Ranger skills with cool Necro Animations and Skins… Everyone know’s Necros are cool.. cool but dysfunctional. ANET time and time again shows that they won’t simply give Necros the abilities they need to compete unless it really fits as a necro. We’re not getting a simple teleport with cooler animation. We’re not getting invulnerability or anything thats the signature of another class. You want those things play another class.

SO what can we get. Something that has a very different mechanic from other classes that gets similar results. What is inherently necro? Necros are Dark magic, undead strength, and scary.

An overpowered skill that has a chance at killing it’s user is a exactly what I think of when I think necro. A character that other players are afraid to attack because they might die when the character explodes.. Necro. A character that’s as useful in death as they are in life necro. Maybe my exact skill ideas need work but if ANET can justify giving us mobility because it fits our character I’m for it. if we get high damage even at a risk its worth it. And who wants to play and over powered unkillable character anyway. Isn’t cheating death more fun.

With all the complaints about what Necros are lacking who wouldn’t welcome anything new.?

The problem with necros is that ANET has been trying to make necros unique without knowing how to make them good. They don’t want to take ideas from other classes to fix our problems like mobility or support. I think the answers to fix GW2 necros is to look at GW1

Necro in GW1 had 1 thing going for it that many teams needed, that being able to give mana to other players via Blood is Power. It was the only class that did that & made it an essential part of many groups since monks needed mana to keep everyone alive. Necros were the 2nd line of support and the monks bodyguards. Without the holy trinity of MMOs (or mana) ANET has forgotten what made Necros unique – self sacrifice to gain power or to boost allies. Also Necros were always pretty fast with skills because they never ran out of mana. They were the batteries for their team. The fact that they slowed down what necros do means they don’t remember what made necros great. ANET should make necros all or nothing types who can sacrifice themselves to give their team the boost, or sacrifice themselves to accomplish a goal. The frustration a lot of necros feel is that they die for nothing.

Here are some suggestions based on GW1

-Since there’s no mana let necros gain enduance when they gain lifeforce. This would help necros tank. As it is now necros can’t sustain damage as well as otheres but they expect us on the front line. So let us dodge more. In fact change the animation from a true dodge to just standing or turning to vapor when necros dodge going with the unstoppable killing machine concept for Reapers.

Self Sacrifice is key
- Sacrifice traits .
Give us traits that add sacrifices to a variety of skills to boost their power.
Examples:
Bloody Artifact: you can have all scepter skills damage boosted by by 20% but gain a stack of bleeding every 3rd attack.
Winter’s Vigor: Let either marks or wells recharge allies skills but apply chill to the one casting the mark or well.
Death is Life – Life constantly drains in battle. Lifeforce doesn’t drain in DS and life regenerates.

- Individual skills with life/lifeforce sacrifices.
Examples:
Shared Soul: a utility skill that gives all nearby allies a temporary health boost based on the amount of lifeforce you have draining your pool and chills enemies
Blood is Victory: an elite skill that gives 25 stacks of might (10sec) and protection (2sec) to you and nearby allies (props every second for 10 seconds so hard to remove) but also removes 1/3 of your remaining life and gives you 2 stacks of bleeding every second for the duration

- Personal Death Nova like traits/skills.
Give big payoffs if you die while using these traits and skills
Examples:
Dhuumgate: A teleport that applies burning to you and has you explode doing damage and burning to foes if you die from the burning.
Soul bomb: a short range (300 radios) blast that sacrifices all your remaining life and puts you in downed state. Does damage equal to half your health (at the time of the blast) ignoring armor to enemies in the blast radius.
Follow the Master: Upon downed summon (port) all minions to yourself & they explode in a Putrid Explosion. 1 jagged horror is summoned for each minion that explodes this way.

Another idea that would set necros apart (and fix MMs) is more minion abilities. Instead of just 1 ability minions should have up to 3 abilities that replace either your main or off hand weapon skils. It’s like you need to concentrate to fully control your minions. This would solve the “dumb” minion problem. This would leave you slightly vulnerable without personal attacks but could open lots of of new play styles.

To address the condition dmg problem, the best condition in GW1 was SS Spiteful Spirit. It was a condition that did power like damage. Why can’t necros have conditions that do damage based on power. That would kill 2 birds with one stone. Call it Spiteful Soul and make it like the old Spiteful Spirit. The enemy takes damage for each attack they do based on the necros power and it spreads to the enemy’s allies as well. It will be a dual purpose skill that does decent damage and slows down enemy attackers.

All in all to fix GW2 necros all you have to do is look at GW1 for ideas.

NOTE After writing all this I may re-post in different threads. Please don’t hate. If it helps ANET fix necros then we all win. Please reply with comments and ideas.

The problem with necros getting pigionholed into the slow mysterious class that doen’t get anything right is that ANET has been trying to make necros unique without knowing how to make them good.

Necro in GW1 had 1 thing going for it that many teams were built around that being able to give mana to other players via Blood is Power. It was the only class that did that and made it an essential part of many groups because the monks needed mana to keep everyone alive. Necros were the 2nd line of support and kind of the monks bodyguards. Without the holy trinity of MMOs (or mana for that matter) ANET seems to have forgotten what made Necros unique – self sacrifice to either gain a lot of power or to boost allies and unlimited mana (which is gone). Necros were alway pretty fast with skills because they never ran out of mana. They were living batteries for their team. The fact that the are slowing down what necros do means they don’t remember what made necros great. ANET really should make necros all or nothing types who can sacrifice themselves to give their team the boost it needs. Or sacrifice themselves to accomplish a goal. The frustration a lot of necros feel is that they die for nothing.

Suggestions for skills, abilities and mechanics to fix necros without turning them into another class. Give more self sacrifice abilities and work it into the trait line. BIP is an awesome skill but 1 skill does not a necro make.
Here’s how I think it could work
- Sacrifice traits .
Give us traits that add BIP like sacrifices to a variety of skills to boost their power.
Examples:
Bloody Artifact: you can have all scepter skills damage boosted by by 20% but gain a stack of bleeding every 3rd attack.
Winter’s Vigor: Let either marks or wells recharge allies skills but applies chill to the necros casting the mark or well.
Death is Life – Life constantly drains in battle. Lifeforce doesn’t drain in DS and life regenerates.

- Individual skills with life/lifeforce sacrifices.
Examples:
Shared Soul: a utility skill that gives all nearby allies a temporary health boost based on the amount of lifeforce you have draining your pool and hits enemies with Dhuumfire if traited in.
Blood is Victory: an elite skill that gives 25 stacks of might (10sec) and protection (2sec) to you and nearby allies (props every second for 10 seconds so hard to remove) but also removes 1/3 of your remaining life and gives you 2 stacks of bleeding every second for the duration

- Personal Death Nova like traits/skills.
Give big payoffs if you die while using these traits and skills
Examples:
Dhuumgate: A teleport that applies burning to you and has you explode doing damage and burning to foes if you die from the burning.
Soul bomb: a short range (300 radios) blast that sacrifices all your remaining life and puts you in downed state. Does damage equal to half your health (at the time of the blast) to enemies in the blast radius.
Follow the Master: summon (teleport) all minions to yourself and they explode in a Putrid Explosion that also damage you. 1 jagged horror is summoned for each minion that explodes this way.

Another idea that would set necros apart (and fix MMs) is more minion abilities. Instead of just 1 ability minions should have up to 3 abilities that replace either your main or off hand weapon skils. It’s like you need to use your concentration to fully control your minions and can only conrol 2 at a time. This would solve the “dumb” minion problem. Let them be dumb while you’re not directly controlling them. This would leave you slightly vulnerable without personal attacks but could open lots of of new play styles.

Lastly to address the condition problem necros have. The best condition in GW1 was SS Spiteful Spirit. It was a condition that did damage not a traditional condition. Why can’t necros have conditions that do damage based on power. That would kill 2 birds with one stone. Call it Spiteful Soul and have it work like the old Spiteful Spirit where the enemy takes damage for each attack the deliver but based on the necros power and it spreads to the enemy’s allies as well. It will be a dual purpose skill that does decent damage and slows down enemy attackers.

All in all to fix GW2 necros all you have to do is look at GW1 for ideas.

NOTE After writing all this I may re-post in different threads. Please don’t hate. If it helps ANET with ideas for what to do with necros then we all win.

I run Axe/Focus & Dagger/Warhorn now so I’m used to melee range and only get back far enough 600 range when I step out to readjust. Thing is I always had my DS skillls for long range in a pinch. Now that the Reapers Shroud is melee too thats not an option. Thinking Staff may be the best bet if I do a Greatsword Reaper.

Besides greatsword what do you think will be the most popular 2nd weapon set for reapers. Add range with a staff? Reaper seems to be a power build so scepter is out. Maybe Axe focus for more chilling vun and cripple?

Thoughts?

I’m thinking Ghostly Death Knight. I think the white to to black contrast when going into Reaper Shroud will be awesome. I’m so glad I got Chiroptophobia. This is going to be an awesome sword for a fearsome necro.
Not sure which shoulders to go with.. What do you think?

I’d like to see exploding Flesh Golems. 5 Flesh golems with built in death novas that automatically explode after a small delay say 30 seconds. Now that’s an elite skill there.
They can even greatly reduce their regular attack.. As long as they have survivability to agrro large groups they would be a big help. I’d make it so if they weren’t killed before the 30 seconds they explode and could cause massive damage. In PVP or WvW it would change the focus of the fight to the minions.. which is what minions should be used for. No overpowering attack but if you ignore them you’re toast.

Throngall.6237:

the noobiniser.7465:

Nope, won’t happen, The Reaper shroud 1 is a Faster hiting cleave, if that ads vuln on every hit it will already be very good, they won’t improve it.

Rather, base death shroud needs a buff to keep up….

Taking my suggestion into consideration, if you make Life Blast pierce baseline it’ll make it better, therefore improving base Dead Shroud without buffing the new from the elite spec.

Further, condition duration is supposed to be better on a scenario where you stack them slow versus a scenario where you stack them fast, reaching the cap quicker, therefore losing effectiveness of duration. This would mean the base Death Shroud would benefit more than the new one from a vulnerability duration increase.

Correct me if I am on the wrong here, please.

I like it. I think you’re right buff the old lifeblast as Anet seems to like Necs to be crowd controllers better against groups. Making piercing default to Life Blast only serves that purpose. The trait will still be good just adding Vun event though its a technical neft to the trait Necs don’t lose anything and gain better balance with default DS

Ok I’m sure everyone saw the video outlining the skills already and I have to say most everything people complain about in PvE and WvW is bull. I already play a Tanky Power Nec that plays on the front line with lots of support and great damage. The current trait line lets nec be very supporting if they want without much sacrifice to att or def. in fact every time i drop a well i give protection to my crew, well of power also provides stability and converts cons to boons for my team. If I get rid of spite, reduce my soul reaping and switch in blood traits I can also heal my crew along with all the protection, stability and condi removal.

Necs are meant to screw with the enemies. The only things we’re missing is better mobility and my only concern is getting rid of our teleport in death shrowd. Other than that the Reaper might just compliment my play style. I’m usually the one who can survive anything in dungeons and PvE. I even survive most falls in fractals due to unholy sanctuary whichs me effectivly 50K+ health due to auto shroud. Spikes that would kill any other class just kitten me off. As it seems there’s even more survivability for the Reaper its going to be fun to play. I used to play a special kind of necro in GW1. I called it my Cowardly Necro build. My team loved me. I’d usually be the last on standing when things went wrong meaning I also was alive to rez everyone. My play style has adopted this mentality. So in GW2 I’m usually the only one who can tank enough to rez people in really bad spots.

Lastly because this is long. If you really like necros because they are cool but hate their skills.. play something else and get creepy skins for your armor. I like the power over life and death thing. I don’t need to be super fast.. I do what I do.