Guild Wars 2

Shiren.9532:

This argument makes it incredibly easy to dismiss your complaint. This isn’t the orb mechanic from launch, the buff is similair but the method of attaining and holding it isn’t. It’s much harder to acquire and hold this buff compared to the orb. You can’t zerg this buff, you have to win in at least three places at the same time to acquire it. You also have to prevent the enemy from being in three places at the same time to keep it. If any enemy server has five small teams at each point and you only defend three, they are getting two easy points and can hit the third hard (or act and react on the other three to pull defenders off or overwhelm them). All of this will involve open field combat (with large consideration for terrain) and puts a great deal of value on the side that can mobilise their forces strategically and quickly. This is dramatically different from an orb which can be acquired by a zerg and hidden behind a heavily fortified tower that favours the defender and allows the zerg to protect it. That’s a massive difference in these two mechanics and anyone who bases the premise of their criticism on “we had this orb mechanic before” is being outright ignorant.

Okay I’m sorry but I gotta address this.

People keep saying that this is fair because smaller servers can split up and contest multiple points at once which should beat the giant zerg blob larger servers have. This helps balance it against the lower coverage servers who aren’t as big.

I gotta ask: What is stopping the larger servers from splitting their big kitten zerg and kicking our teeth in at multiple points as well? Like seriously. Say it’s 30 SoS vs 60 SoR. SoS splits into 5 groups of 6 and contests all our points in our BL. What’s stopping SoR from splitting into 5 groups of 12 and wrecking us?

Intellidonkey.5410:

Why do you hate bunkers? The whole point of them is that you have to bring friends to dislodge them from a point. Making points get nuted no matter who owns it would just make sure almost no points would be scored by holding a point.

Utilize pushbacks, launches and immobilizes to counter a bunker, rather than simply killing. It’s really easy.

It’s not so much I hate bunkers, I just dislike how that part of the game works because it basically comes down to a few questions:
-Can I knock him off or get him off the point to contest it? If no, don’t bother
-Can I even kill him? If no, don’t bother
-Can I kill him with my teammate in time to make it matter? If no, don’t bother

Overall it’s pretty a pretty kittenty feeling to have to quit before even trying.

With the change to timing down, it will still give bunkers a pretty important role (Denying the enemy team points by keeping it neutral) but it will make it more of an “Oh kitten a bunker is coming” rather then “kitten that, a bunker is there.”

There will, of course, be a type of drain on points gotten from captured land plots and these can be made up by increasing points gained from having it capped.

Part 2

That’s about it for any suggestion I can think of at this moment. Feedback and ideas are welcome and if anyone has a their own ideas, post it up and I’ll add it to my Wall of Reading.

TL;DR: Make sPvP more fun to play by giving us variety and something we can do other than grinding.

Before I start I suppose I should talk about myself a bit. Video games are not something new or even what most would call casual to me. I’ve played them for as long as I can remember (Around 20 or so years). Most recently, I’ve played WoW for about 6 or 7 years and GW2 the past year. In my time in WoW, I spent a good amount of time raiding and PvPing. I was Gladiator (For those who understand that) during S2-S6 and have downed Illiadin and Arthas. In GW2, I’ve done my fair share of sPvP, PvE and WvW. I guess you can say I have an addiction but it’s more of a lifestyle choice. Either way, I’ve seen my way around gaming, both PvE and PvP.

Now most of these suggestions come as simply ideas that pop out of my head. Some were taken from reading others ideas. Some come from other games. A good amount are things I think of when I am on the toilet or showering. Are they good ideas? I think so. They’re things I would personally like to do and have found most others enjoy too.

Let’s begin: Warning Wall of Text

Sypsy.7318:

Aleaf.8174:

Militia here. How is it derogatory? We’re not part of the main forces that run around the areas doing major things. We are small groups that do our own thing that helps towards the server’s overall goal, whether hit and runs, harassing reinforcements and the occasional “Did we just beat that [XYZ] zerg of 20 people with just 1 party?”.

The first definition utilizes the term “ordinary civilian.” So for GW2, it would imply that un-guilded players are less skilled/trained than guilded ones, which is not true.

GW2 already has a term for this.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gladium

Someone who has lost his/her warband. This means everyone who doesn’t have a guild gets to have a thrilling backstory about how they ended up alone!

Uh what?

mi·li·tia
/m??liSH?/
Noun
A military force of civilians to supplement a regular army in an emergency.
A military force that engages in rebel activities.

Am I the only one who uses Google for definitions?

Either way the first definition matches what a majority of small guilds do. They join the larger zergs and follow commanders around.

As for what my guild does, you can call us Special Ops.

Nuked.2360:

Calling them militia is the single worst thing you could do It has a derogatory and downgrading tone towards others.

Militia here. How is it derogatory? We’re not part of the main forces that run around the areas doing major things. We are small groups that do our own thing that helps towards the server’s overall goal, whether hit and runs, harassing reinforcements and the occasional “Did we just beat that [XYZ] zerg of 20 people with just 1 party?”.

Vanguardian.4921:

They already did buff it.

When was this? If you mean Orb of Light, that’s the trident #2 ability they buffed a while back.

Azurymber.5193:

RNG implies equal randomness across all players.
The RNG is not the problem
I’m assuming the system of tagging is the problem
If a warrior can hit considerably more mobs per round in jorm farming than an ele or ranger can, that warrior has triple the chances to obtain items

And no one spent another 3 hours doing the karka chest as they all occured around the same time? Most finished one, joined a nearly finished one in overflow, finished that one, etc. Karka event was 1-time and form what i gathered nearly all of them ended at the same time. Also I assumed opening a second chest that way would be an exploit as it was a -1 time event- which essentially screams “you get 1 chest”

You would be incorrect. People got multiple chest because they were able to join a “fresh” overflow that hadn’t even started the event. I highly doubt anyone did the method you’re suggesting (Going to an overflow with a nearly dead karka) as the overflow would have been full at that point.

Oh and every class has some form of AoE. Yes some are better then others at AoE but some classes are better soloers or bossers and such. It’ gives a diversity to each class while keeping a fair playing field by not excluding one class over another.

RNG is RNG. There’s no point in complaining about it.

Also while I think they should have limited the chest to 1 per account, you can’t complain if someone decides to spend another 3 hours doing the karka event for the chest. He invested for extra reward. You had the option but didn’t.

BuddhaWrath.5073:

They are nearly 40s on Emhry Bay now. Just sayin’, ridiculous.

All trading posts are linked regionally (or globally not sure) so the price of ectos are for the most part the same everywhere. And they are 32s last I checked in the last hour.

matenzo.9518:

Why is it that people feel that 5-player instances of any kind are the appropriate place in GW2 to obtain top gear?

Is it because you find it more challenging or frustrating than open-world content? Provided that you aren’t in a particularly disorganized group and sorta know what you’re doing, grinding the instanced content in GW2 is achievable by even the casual player. That is compared to doing most cursed shores DE chains with a handful of players nowadays.

Besides, not everyone buys mmos to end up repeating 5-player instances over and over again. Why wouldn’t Ascended gear be available in WvWvW as well as regular (non-instanced) pve and through a variety of means including Karma?

For the third time this thread, they already announced they will add Ascended Gear through WvW and other means.

TsukasaHiiragi.9730:

Veltoss.9135:

TsukasaHiiragi.9730:

Aleaf.8174:

TsukasaHiiragi.9730:

Veltoss.9135:

They already said they’re adding more ascended gear with more ways to get it, including from dungeons and more fun ways as well.

source?

“Ascended and infusion rewards will be available in both PvE and WvW over time, and be made available through all sorts of content around the world including existing content.”

Source

Oh I read that already ~ its all smoke and mirrors without an solid information. I wouldn’t put too much into that.

How the kitten is that not solid when it comes straight from them? You people are just trying your best to have a reason to freak the kitten out and keep your conspiracy theories going.

Um..because look at all the other people saying the same thing, hundreds ~ if not thousands of players can’t be wrong..right?

Holocaust, Armenian Genocide, Slavery. All those were wrong, yet the idea was perpetuated by thousands of people.

Oh and even if says 2,000 people complained, compared the a population of say 100,000 subscribers, 2% of the overall population complaining isn’t that bad. Hell 10% isn’t even that bad since most of the time games have 1/3 of the population whining anyways.

Snoring Sleepwalker.9073:

All I hear about SW:TOR is incompetence and by stupid design choices. So it’s probably a very bad example.

SW:TOR did originally have some decent promise if the corporate didn’t push Bioware into using things they didn’t agree. They built SW:TOR on an incomplete game engine and spent most of their money on voice acting as opposed to actual gameplay. In addition, the game became a WoW clone in a Star Wars subpar universe.

What did Blizzard give them ?
Remember, I don’t like gear treadmills, so I don’t pay attention to WoW

Easy carebear content that can be cleared by 12 year old kids (aka my cousins).
It was quite a depressing notion. Blizzard had it good back in BC(considered the best raiding time by most of the WoW population). The only reason people despised it (most casuals at least) was the whole notion of being left behind and not being able to catch up because of the weekly lockouts (something GW2 doesn’t have).

How about you pick some examples across the industry as a whole, not just two big names, and detail their promises along with how they were broken. In fact, detail of how they were broken is probably the most important part of detailing a broken promise. So why did you leave that detail out ?

I chose those titles as they are the most recent games released to a large fanbase like GW2 was. In addition both are RPGs of some kind and have disappointment follow release due to change in original design/promises.

GW1 wasn’t. So it’s clearly possible to make a successful RPG that isn’t like that.

GW1 wasn’t even advertised as an MMO. It was advertised as a CORPG. MMORPGs generally have a persistent outside world inside the game. GW1 was mostly, if not entirely instanced.

I didn’t ask why MMORPGs are like that. I asked “Why must they be like that ?”
Or to reword it a bit: Why can’t MMORPG’s be made without grind ?

It’s like asking why are scary movies scary. It’s the way they are. If they removed the whole idea of progressing your character through a constantly changing and evolving world, it wouldn’t be an RPG, let alone an MMORPG.

Healix.5819:

One of the reasons for ascended gear was to forcibly slow down progression.

But why did they do that ?

GW1 managed to do very well with faster progression than GW2 had on launch. Then Factions came out and made progression faster while max stats remained the same.

If most content (Including content you thought would originally take a year) was completed in the span of 1 month, you would probably also have to take a sharp look at everything.

People had legendaries within a month. People were fully exotic in a month with most dungeons completed.

Progession to end game should not be that fast for an online game. Once everything is done, what is there to do?

They had to add things to slow down progression and keep players interested. This was what they came up with (which I find better than other possibilities).

Mhyrria.4160:

Aleaf.8174:

Merthax.5172:

Casca Longinus.3168:

once again, you want the reward without the work

Let’s say I invite a friend to play GW2 with me. How long should it take them to start a new character, get to maximum level, and get max stat gear? What is a realistic amount of time where they have “earned” it?

This is a game, which I play it for fun. Once it has devolved into work, I know it’s time to move on to something else. If it’s work, I want to get paid for it.

This is an RPG. RPGs are known to have some form of work to show off an achievement. This “work” is often called a grind. It’s the genre.

No. Ever played Baldur’s Gate or Icewind Dale or any classic Black Isle games? Probably not. Those are RPGs and THEY NEVER MADE YOU GRIND. The best gears come from exploring, understanding the lore and dialogues, and killing a very hard boss. A boss that even if you grind (which is close to impossible since most dungeons dont respawn enemies), you are not gonna be able to kill it unless you use your brain. So, again, NO. The pinnacle of the RPG world are held by games without grind. The only work you do is working your brain to come up with a strategy to defeat bosses.

Did you ever have to level up for a certain boss to ensure you wont die? Ever need to completely search a dungeon from corner to corner to make sure you didn’t miss anything? Every kill a few mobs out of the way for that extra gold?

Congratulations, you’ve found the grind. Of course, in single player games you don’t need to implement a large grind (or time sink) since they have your money already.

MMORPGs are different in that they want you to keep playing (because the more you play, the more money you spend). This is the reason MMORPGs expand more on the grindy side of RPGs.

“But why do we need grind? Why can’t we just have less grind and more content?”

While this would be awesome to every extent, the problem is a few factors:

Time
Cost vs Consumption

First off would be time. Cranking out these small content patches is quite a handful: Making sure the art works well, they are (For the most part) bug free, don’t cause any crashes, tested and retested, ensuring the coding works well, making sure there aren’t any exploits to run; you get the idea. What we experienced in the 3 day weekend probably took the better time of a month just to have everything set. Not including the business format within the company.

Second is the cost vs consumption. Is it profitable? Would putting in a month worth of work be worth the revenue gained (and future impacts) on the game to help cover the company and then some? How long will this appease our customers? Before you forget, ANet is still a business and the priority of any business is to make money.

And that’s the main reason you have grinds in MMOs. Would it be awesome if there was another way to incorporate the grind so it’s not so grindy? Hell ya.

But people have tried it and failed, which is why we have the current business models you have now.

TsukasaHiiragi.9730:

Aleaf.8174:

TsukasaHiiragi.9730:

Veltoss.9135:

They already said they’re adding more ascended gear with more ways to get it, including from dungeons and more fun ways as well.

source?

“Ascended and infusion rewards will be available in both PvE and WvW over time, and be made available through all sorts of content around the world including existing content.”

Source

Oh I read that already ~ its all smoke and mirrors without an solid information. I wouldn’t put too much into that.

And there it is. You’re CHOOSING too ignore what they have said.

When it comes down to it, you have two choices:

-Accept what the company says and let things go.
-Choose to disregard what they say and wage a crusade against the game.

Either way, what you have to say will not change anything. They’ve already released it. There hasn’t been a mass exodus. There has been no signs of disgruntled customers outside of constant complaints from emotionally attached gamers (which isn’t bad to some degree).

And if anyone has had any experience in customer service, you’d know people are more likely to complain about bad things then to appreciate the good.

TsukasaHiiragi.9730:

Veltoss.9135:

They already said they’re adding more ascended gear with more ways to get it, including from dungeons and more fun ways as well.

source?

“Ascended and infusion rewards will be available in both PvE and WvW over time, and be made available through all sorts of content around the world including existing content.”

Source

TsukasaHiiragi.9730:

Aleaf.8174:

TsukasaHiiragi.9730:

Aleaf.8174:

Merthax.5172:

Casca Longinus.3168:

once again, you want the reward without the work

Let’s say I invite a friend to play GW2 with me. How long should it take them to start a new character, get to maximum level, and get max stat gear? What is a realistic amount of time where they have “earned” it?

This is a game, which I play it for fun. Once it has devolved into work, I know it’s time to move on to something else. If it’s work, I want to get paid for it.

This is an RPG. RPGs are known to have some form of work to show off an achievement. This “work” is often called a grind. It’s the genre.

No, thats called e-pe.. (stupid kitten lol) When you start showing off, the game sinks down to a pre-school level. RPGS are not really about work, its about skill and making careful decisions. MMos was originally designed as social games not about grinding 10 hours a day.

The “grind” came about from the very first Korean based MMos, before even games like Everquest 1, which emulated that direction of actually working to progress your character. Somewhere along the lines, gold farming appeared and the rest is history. GW2 isn’t really grindy in terms of levelling, but it’s got a significant gold farming grind, and that alone puts off many players, which again is highly characteristic of Korean MMos.

Themes of MMORPG

Pretty sure grind is a traditional part of MMORPGs. MMORPGs derived from MUDs which also held similar themes. Ultima Online, one of the oldest MMORPGs, have elements of grind.

Progression has always been a theme in MMORPGs. It’s the very nature of the game. You play the game as a character to progress yourself.

Sorry if you thought MMORPGs are something else. WoW does that to people.

They wasn’t nearly as grindy though. Original MUDS wasn’t really grindy at all. SoE really was responsible for bringing grindfests to the US shores, and those was more or less modelled after early Korean MMos.

As for WoW, it really didn’t have any grind. You did the content up to 80, you then did dungeons for gear and ultimately raided for the best gear. Gold in WoW didn’t really do much, that was for really crafting and epic mounts.

EQ1 grind was more about progressing your character, especially through AA. Sure it was grindy, but you always more or less progressed.

Look at some games like Ragnarok for instance, that certainly wasn’t the first Korean MMo, but that game is among the worst for grinds in gaming history.

Legends of Future Past

First commercial text-based MMORPG. My dad played this when I was a kid.

The game included no level cap, a form of level based treadmill which indirectly included a form of grind.

Not Korean.

TsukasaHiiragi.9730:

Aleaf.8174:

Merthax.5172:

Casca Longinus.3168:

once again, you want the reward without the work

Let’s say I invite a friend to play GW2 with me. How long should it take them to start a new character, get to maximum level, and get max stat gear? What is a realistic amount of time where they have “earned” it?

This is a game, which I play it for fun. Once it has devolved into work, I know it’s time to move on to something else. If it’s work, I want to get paid for it.

This is an RPG. RPGs are known to have some form of work to show off an achievement. This “work” is often called a grind. It’s the genre.

No, thats called e-pe.. (stupid kitten lol) When you start showing off, the game sinks down to a pre-school level. RPGS are not really about work, its about skill and making careful decisions. MMos was originally designed as social games not about grinding 10 hours a day.

The “grind” came about from the very first Korean based MMos, before even games like Everquest 1, which emulated that direction of actually working to progress your character. Somewhere along the lines, gold farming appeared and the rest is history. GW2 isn’t really grindy in terms of levelling, but it’s got a significant gold farming grind, and that alone puts off many players, which again is highly characteristic of Korean MMos.

Themes of MMORPG

Pretty sure grind is a traditional part of MMORPGs. MMORPGs derived from MUDs which also held similar themes. Ultima Online, one of the oldest MMORPGs, have elements of grind.

Progression has always been a theme in MMORPGs. It’s the very nature of the game. You play the game as a character to progress yourself.

Sorry if you thought MMORPGs are something else. WoW does that to people.

Merthax.5172:

Casca Longinus.3168:

once again, you want the reward without the work

Let’s say I invite a friend to play GW2 with me. How long should it take them to start a new character, get to maximum level, and get max stat gear? What is a realistic amount of time where they have “earned” it?

This is a game, which I play it for fun. Once it has devolved into work, I know it’s time to move on to something else. If it’s work, I want to get paid for it.

This is an RPG. RPGs are known to have some form of work to show off an achievement. This “work” is often called a grind. It’s the genre.

Snoring Sleepwalker.9073:

Aleaf.8174:

Dead.7385:

Casca Longinus.3168:

once again, you want the reward without the work

WoW provided loot in a much better manner…..

WoW provided loot on a weekly basis at an RNG rate. I think I’d much rather grind for something that I know I will receive than grind a raid once a week and pray to the RNG Gods I get it.

At least GW2 isn’t putting daily limits on how often we can farm/run a dungeon.

Is a daily roll of the RNG for an Ascended ring significantly better ?

Once a week from 1 mob vs Multiple times a week against multiple mobs.

Yes. It is.

Snoring Sleepwalker.9073:

Aleaf.8174:

Snoring Sleepwalker.9073:

Why should we be expected to work in a game we play for enjoyment just to get to the fun parts ?

Especially of those of us who don’t have much time to play due to actual work and/or family ?

Because that’s what MMORPGs/RPGs are. You earn something nice and shiny. You aren’t given anything free.

That would be a fair response if we were talking about any other MMO. But for GW2 ANET promised us a different game, which is why so many people with less available time bought it.

So now we come to the question: Why must MMOs be like that ?
Why can’t ANET produce the game they promised ?

Let’s look at other video game launches and things they promised their community:

-When SW:TOR was launched they promised a game that would “revolutionize the MMORPG Model.”

-When Mists was launched, they promised a much more engaging and challenging gameplay for their clients

-When Diablo 3 was launched, they promised to bring everything that made Diablo 2 into D3.

Yeah, people lie. A lot. That’s why every online game every released comes with that statement on the box “Online experience may vary”. If Anet wanted to, they can turn GW2 into a cash cow and completely piss off half the population while making all the moneys.

But that aside, why does MMOs have to be like that? Well for one thing not all MMOs aren’t. MMORPGs are (There’s a difference, especially from a gameplay perspective).

Now why are MMORPGs like that? Mostly cuz of the fact that RPGs are like that too.

Ever play a JRPG? How about Dark Souls? You don’t have things handed to you. You earn it.

Don’t find that fun? Well maybe RPGs, and in turn, MMORPGs are not your thing. Maybe you just don’t find playing a video game fun. Maybe you’re not a gamer at all. But I digress.

So why are MMORPGs like this? Because that’s the kittening genre. It’s like asking why Horror Movies are scary.

Dead.7385:

Casca Longinus.3168:

once again, you want the reward without the work

WoW provided loot in a much better manner…..

WoW provided loot on a weekly basis at an RNG rate. I think I’d much rather grind for something that I know I will receive than grind a raid once a week and pray to the RNG Gods I get it.

At least GW2 isn’t putting daily limits on how often we can farm/run a dungeon.

Snoring Sleepwalker.9073:

Casca Longinus.3168:

once again, you want the reward without the work

Why should we be expected to work in a game we play for enjoyment just to get to the fun parts ?

Especially of those of us who don’t have much time to play due to actual work and/or family ?

Because that’s what MMORPGs/RPGs are. You earn something nice and shiny. You aren’t given anything free.

TsukasaHiiragi.9730:

Ahem* Don’t you mean a grind with RNG elements added?

In all fairness, the actually chance of not getting any Vials after getting the required Relics is low.

It’s high enough that a few percentage of the population will have this happen to them, but a much larger majority wont which, from a maximization standpoint, is acceptable.

If the vials had a smaller drop rate where a large majority of the population wont even get 1 vial, then there’s a problem with the drop rate.

And from what it seems on the forums (The lack of people complaining that vials never drop), the drop rate seems acceptable.

And if you don’t like RNG, well, MMORPGs prolly aren’t up your alley as RNG is an integral part of them.

Cod Eye.1632:

Unspecified.9142:

There is currently 5,721 ectos on the market (give or take) and a demand for 76,185 (give or take). It should be pretty obvious what the ‘problem’ is here.

Source: http://www.gw2spidy.com/item/19721

The other reason which ties in with demand is that supply has dropped from 22k + to an avg of 5k from 1 month ago.

@OP its not the price of Ectos thats killing the game, its Anet nerfing drop rates and nerfing salvaging that is killing all the enjoyment from this game.

Um, from the market stand point, you’re wrong. They didn’t nerf the drop rate. Rather the lack of bots and the price of other items tied into gold are the cause of rising prices.

Well in all fairness, a 30 or so hour grind for a piece that shouldn’t* need replacing isn’t too bad. Plus the fact that you’d also get to keep the money you make from the fractal.

And really, the only people even going for this gear are those willing to grind fractals (And are prolly good at it by this point).

Don’t forget you also have the daily that gives 0-40 Relics per day per tier. The grind itself can take only about a week and a half or so if you pace yourself (or 3 days if you are really hardcore.)

*: Assuming ANet doesn’t introduce another tier.

It seems people still don’t know about this recipe.

Prototype Fractal Capacitor + Gift of Ascension + 40 Crystals or 240 Philosopher’s Stone + Vial of Condensed Mist Essence

This crafts an Ascended Version of the back piece. Cheers.

Kumu Honua.2751:

I’ve had groups with rogues that had no ranged weapons, an elementalist with no underwater weapon whatsoever. I have had groups where people would leave the group immediately if we get swamp/dredge/ascalon as #2/3.

Pugs are whole new levels of fail at times.

When you get that one group though, the ones where people don’t stand in the fire…smoothness. It’s glorious.

My first attempt at fractals was with a PuG (My guild had started before I got back from class and I didn’t want to have them rerun lower levels because of me).

We had 2 rangers 1 Necro 1 Thief and Me (Guardian).

There was a down here and there and I did have to switch to mace/focus to be more tankier than I am normally but it was gloriously smooth. No problems. No issues. Nothing. We even laughed as people fell at the Colossus Fractal.

Zoul.1087:

“So you’re complaining about:”

No I am merely pointing out an experience in the game.

“And you can’t stop players from rushing to the end of the race for a reward. It’s like giving a kid a bag of candy and telling him to pace himself till the end of the day. You know the moment you turn around, that bag is empty.”

The solution would be to require more than one place of everything to happen.

Like I said its all in once place.

Also any gear check of any kind is bad.

If your read the other posts all the other areas of the game have not only become vacant due to ascended items, the areas themselves have been nerfed. Why?

Its complete and total pigeonholing. Maybe they should nerf AFTER they have a replacement for said areas.

But it’s NOT a gear check. Hell I’m pretty sure I can clear lvls 1 – 10 in greens if I wanted to. I have YET to encounter any point where Agony Resistance is even needed. And I’m pretty far compared to most people in Lion’s Arch

And how are other areas nerfed? The only nerf I can recall is they reduced the timer on Plinx because being able to grind close to 24k Karma an hour wasn’t in their plan.

TsukasaHiiragi.9730:

Ganzo.5079:

Really funny, so you have to grind, and use MF gear too? and this isnt grind? only the fact tha ppl use that cursed MF gear in a dungeon group to drop a particular item, is synonymous of GRIND.

Also it annoys people like me to have proper DPS, no MF gear so I can maximise the chances of actual finishing dungeons, whilst others capitalise on that.

Wait wait wait, you mean people actually have problems clearing Fractals below lvl 10?

Zoul.1087:

Aleaf.8174:

Zoul.1087:

“TLDR: If you hate fractals, or PUGS then why are you doing them? Go do something else.”

Then why are you mad? Because you had a bad group doing Fractals that made your wife cry? That’s 1 experience and suddenly the whole dungeon concept is horrible? That’s a large fallacy.

You said your experience should be more pleasant. Fair enough. What made your experience so bad? It seems to stem from the attitude of PuGs more so than the dungeon itself. Isn’t that a bigger problem then? The attitude of the community, not so much the gear or dungeon involved? Blaming the game because a PuG was unpleasant is like blaming a restaurant because someone’s child ran up to you and stabbed your wife with a knife.

Where in my post did I say I was mad? or did I say rarr I am angry? Again I keep asking people go to back and read you don’t seem to be getting what I am conveying.

No it is not simply pugs. Please read my other threads. Its a matter of being consistent. Let me bullet point so you don’t have to read a wall of text.

- Some dungeons (such as Underground Facility Fractal) are very unforgiving and allow little room for error. Meaning if you have a bad group. Forget it. It is not consistent.

- Forcing players to team up based on level does not work as people pass each other in level and will only do their current level.

- Putting the richest rewards all in one point attracts everyone to that same point.

- The ascended items cannot be bought from TP or acquired anywhere else. So yes you have to do the dungeon right now.

- I don’t like that Ascended items are a gear check with their agony resistance. Player skill should count for 99% of the game. Be it dodging etc. Gear checks are why I returned my copy of diablo 3.

- Encouraging players to be greedy or hurry to the next reward does not make it a rewarding experience.

I loved the halloween event and I even thought the last Karka event was fun. I have no problem with the ascended items being in the game. However to laser focus them in one place is not good for the rest of the game.

So you’re complaining about:

-Content being hard and inconsisent
-Players refusing to help those below them in progression
-Pigeon holing players into 1 dungeon
-Ascendant Gear lack of availability elsewhere
-Gear Checks vs Skill Checks
-Encouraging Players to Rush to the Reward

First off I want to say this: As someone who has actually seen agony in effect, Ascendant Gear isn’t needed for those who are skilled. In other words, most people who are deeper into progression don’t even have Ascendant Gear.

Do you NEED Agony Resistance past lvl 11? Not really no. Is it nice so you can avoid being 1 shotted? Yeah.

In addition, two points are player actions and reactions. You can’t blame the company because players act a certain way. You can’t blame the Anet because players are looking for their own personal interest as opposed to the community as a whole. That’s what a guild is for.

Also, Anet has already stated they are working a way to acquire Ascendant Gear outside the dungeon. Patience is a virtue.

As for Gear Check vs Skill Check, as I’ve stated, most people in higher levels aren’t even in Ascendant Gear.

And you can’t stop players from rushing to the end of the race for a reward. It’s like giving a kid a bag of candy and telling him to pace himself till the end of the day. You know the moment you turn around, that bag is empty.

TsukasaHiiragi.9730:

The funny thing is people who are doing fractals in the hope to get ascended items are going to be sorely disappointed when they find out they’ll need hundreds and hundreds of gold to craft them.

Not really. More like around 100 at most. And that’s via the only current known way to get them. We don’t know all the recipes. We still have an unknown recipe with other items using vials.

Zoul.1087:

“TLDR: If you hate fractals, or PUGS then why are you doing them? Go do something else.”

No offense but it doesn’t seem you are reading what I am saying.

Something else has been removed pretty much. I suggest you go to the cursed shore and see how many people are there. Or go to the Lost Shore. The fact of the matter is virtually no one is doing these anymore. In fact I was wanting to do the the arah dungeon for my monthly. We ran out of people halfway through at the point with fire elementals.

I also said I would move on to other things for now and hope they add it in PVE content. However your argument is: “TLDR: If you hate fractals, or PUGS then why are you doing them? Go do something else.”

It ignores the issue at hand. My point is I should hate fractals or pugs. In fact which I said I do not multiple times. However the experience should be more pleasant.

What I am saying is:
This is a game, games should be fun.

My argument is also you should not be pigeonholed into one option for play for the best gear in the game. Lengendaries were for instance legendary. I was fine with the grind they required even if they had amazing stats because there were multiple ways to get them, they also were not really a mandatory part of gear progression.

Then why are you mad? Because you had a bad group doing Fractals that made your wife cry? That’s 1 experience and suddenly the whole dungeon concept is horrible? That’s a large fallacy.

You said your experience should be more pleasant. Fair enough. What made your experience so bad? It seems to stem from the attitude of PuGs more so than the dungeon itself. Isn’t that a bigger problem then? The attitude of the community, not so much the gear or dungeon involved? Blaming the game because a PuG was unpleasant is like blaming a restaurant because someone’s child ran up to you and stabbed your wife with a knife.

Before we begin this fascinating discussion I’ll state my credentials.

Before GW2 I was a hardcore raider in WoW. I was part of the 5%(?) that ever saw the inside of Sun Well Plateau in WoW. I have cleared ICC Heroic. You can say I am pretty good at PvE in WoW.

As of GW2, I have cleared every dungeon on every path without wipes. Giganticus Lupicus is easy. Subject Alpha is cake. I think I’ve only wiped on Subject Alpha once and that’s when my guild was messing around and used the guns from path 2 to give him perma 25 stacks of Might.

Now I will go ahead and say this: Fractals is not something meant to be PuG’d nor should it be. It’s like trying to PuG Heroic Raids in WoW. You can try. You might be able to clear the easier content, but in the end, you’re looking for a bad time.

The lack of any VOIP like Mumble/TS/Vent alone can make most of the paths a chore. These dungeons require a large amount of group coordination and effort. I’m not surprised if some of the more emotional gamers start to become angry over hours on low level paths.

I won’t defend anyone for ripping someone else a new one (I like to think I’ve grown out of that from my younger years) but I want you to understand that dungeons like these are hard and meant to be hard.

You need a good group. You need coordination. And most of all you need something more than picking up 3 random people from Lion’s Arch.

I am sorry you had a terrible experience and your wife became so saddened but understand that there is something you can do to avoid this.

Leonard.2867:

“Well who’s to say they have deviated? Why can’t ascendant be the new exotic?”

I can ask, why can’t Exotic gear stay the top tier gear?

In another posting of yours, you state that anti-agony is not needed or relative in level 20 FOTM. This implies that even level 20 FOTM is easy. Now you argue that Arah and CoE are a joke and too easy. You also argue that a player should be rewarded for skill vs. time invested. If FOTM is implied easy… then why should a player be rewarded with new gear with better stats according to your own standards? I ask this because you Argue that Ascended gear is a reward for skill vs. time invested.

Nah I’m here because people are blowing out how much stronger Ascendant Gear is vs Exotics. Everything else was purely cuz I am bored and wanted to see where you’d go with it.

And yeah FotM is fairly easy cept once you get past around lvl 16. Then 1 hit = death and with a group with no agony…. let’s just say getting perfect runs on bosses 3 times in a row without breaking our armor is rather hard. Is it hard mechanically? Not really. Is it artificially harder? Yeah and that’s kinda dumb.

And there’s nothing wrong with rewarding someone who’s skilled vs someone who isn’t.

While I am personally am against Time Grinds, I can see the necessity (They gotta get you to play somehow) And plus I’ve gotten good at it over the many years I played multiple MMOs.

Leonard.2867:

Leonard.2867:

How many people do you see spamming, LFG Arah? Arah was the first panicle for skill achievement. The reward is something few have, Arah gear.

To further this statement vs. new Grind gear. Grind is, of course, relative. However, about 23 runs In Arah will get you your full Arah set. Assuming a casual player did one Arah run a day, that’s under a Month a player can have an Arah which can showcase player and team skill.

How many months will it take a person to obtain all the ecto for Ascended gear? Last time I checked, it takes no skill to obtain ecto.

Point taken. Though as someone who recently learned to both play the market and increase my gold gained, it’s quite surprising how easy it was for me to make 10+ gold a day with a starting value of 40 gold or so but I digress.

Even at that I still feel the original dungeons were FAR too easy. Too many people cried and complained. Whenever I do a PuG CoF 1 Exp and see people actually die at the totem part from fight 3 mobs their level, I can’t help but think “Are these the people Anet listens to? This is ridiculous. Even Vindictus was harder than this.”

But that’s my own problems. While I wont say I agree with the whole Pink Gear and how it currently is (Cuz I quite frankly think it’s stupid for what they did. As a poor college student I could do better), I will say to wait and see where this goes.

The gear wont bother me because I compensate with skill. The grind wont bother me because I compensate with learning markets.

I can see why everyone has a pitchfork over Anet, but I do think a lot of whining and crying could be spent elsewhere.

Oh and 8% increase in stats does give about 20% more total damage done overall, but that’s if you standstill and blow your DPS rotation. And let’s face it, if you’re standing still in lvl 19 fractals,you’re prolly dead already.

Leonard.2867:

Aleaf.8174:

Leonard.2867:

Columba.9730:

Why can’t they be obtained via WvWvW from day one?

A bigger problem is: Why can a person doing a level 35 dungeon obtain the same stat gear as from a level 80 dungeon, yet a person cannot get Ascended gear in a level 80 dungeon but can in a ‘player’ level one dungeon?

While I highly doubt any new lvl 35 can get the resources it takes to even craft Pink Gear, would it be wrong to say that Fractals rewards Skill vs Time Invested?

What’s wrong with rewarding skill as opposed to time invested in the game?

That is what the Legendary Weapons were suppose to do. But the Legendary Model failed, and this is the horrible fix Anet is imposing.

Correction: Legendary is time invested.
Dungeon sets (skins) are skill.

I wouldn’t even consider dungeon sets as skill. Arah in itself is a joke at how easy it is. Giganticus Lupicus is a shadow of what he could be. When I heard people saying Subject Alpha and GL would be some of the harder boss fights, I was excited.

“Finally hard content”

Then when I attempted them both and cleared both… without even getting downed… on my first try… I was disappointed. HEAVILY.

Leonard.2867:

Aleaf.8174:

And technically you can since a majority of the drops don’t even come from the Fractal itself. And let’s face it, Explorer Mode is faceroll easy. I can prolly beat Giganticus solo.

Well if they had released Fractals on day 1, would it have changed your view on Pink?

It does not matter if its majority or one single drop. If can’t run a level 35 dungeon and gain the same stats from a new dungeon, then Anet has deviated from their mission statement, simple.

The mission statement was all over the game when I can obtain as good of gear from level 35 TA instead of Arah. Arah was not based around gear, but being a good dungeoner.

Well who’s to say they have deviated? Why can’t ascendant be the new exotic?

And the mission statement was more along the lines of “You won’t have to constantly grind new gear” as opposed to “You can grind the lower level stuff to get for higher level stuff”

With the game not even being out for 6 months, I’m not surprised they added a new tier.

They had originally wanted Exotics to be much harder to acquire but because of the incessant amount of crying from players and exploiting the dungeons *Cough*COF*Cough* they were forced to make exotics the new “Rares” of sorts.

Leonard.2867:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Some notes:
- It’s not 2% Critical Chance, it’s 2% Critical Damage . . . mild difference but given my criticals are around 2500-3000 from my current bow, it doesn’t seem that big a gain.
- +11 Power, dunno what that translates to in raw damage . . .
- -13 Precision, meaning LESS chance of a critical; note that I’ve heard from some stat crunchers that Precision’s affect on Critical Chance diminishes after a point.
- +18 Vitality, which is +180 Health. Nothing much to say here, I’m good . . .

But comparing the two, while there’s definitely a small step up there is definitely a different arrangement of stats. Let’s see another one . . .

I already edit my post before your response. Remember that is only one ring. Assuming all accessory slots had same stats: that’s +55 Power, + 65 Precesion, + 10% to Critical Damage, and +900 health. Ascended gear already has one more stat over Exotic.

Actually the numbers would be something like

+55 Power
-65 Precision
+10% Critical
+900 Health.

Since you lose precision and all.

Leonard.2867:

Columba.9730:

Why can’t they be obtained via WvWvW from day one?

A bigger problem is: Why can a person doing a level 35 dungeon obtain the same stat gear as from a level 80 dungeon, yet a person cannot get Ascended gear in a level 80 dungeon but can in a ‘player’ level one dungeon?

While I highly doubt any new lvl 35 can get the resources it takes to even craft Pink Gear, would it be wrong to say that Fractals rewards Skill vs Time Invested?

What’s wrong with rewarding skill as opposed to time invested in the game?

Onshidesigns.1069:

Aleaf.8174:

Onshidesigns.1069:

Aleaf.8174:

Onshidesigns.1069:

Aleaf.8174:

Columba.9730:

Leonard.2867:

Columba.9730:

Leonard.2867:

Xandax.1753:

It’s not actually the ‘grind’ most people disagree with.
It is the grind to advance instead of a grind ‘at your own leisure’. It’s why people mention vertical and horizontal progression. Need gear to get gear versus get gear to get other (often cosmetic) stuff.

There were people who complained about Legendaries being difficult to get; but they weren’t many. There were people complaining about WvW badge drop rate; but they weren’t many.
I’ve seen nobody complain about the grind to acquire titles from the achievement list.

It’s not the grind per se. It’s the enforced grind and what it represents and how many people have experienced it affecting other games most seem to object to.
And it’s the going back on words by ANet. The change in design philosophy.

It’s just easier to write ‘grind’ than a long explanation and most people seem to understand the difference …. except when wanting to cause argument.

Maybe your looking at it wrong? Achievements is more like reading a good book with a conclusion. Then you find out there is a sequel to the book. I look at the Achievements and figure out where to ponder in Tyria to complete my goals. Some are more repetitive, but its mostly from playing the game in a ‘normal’ sense.

Grinding is me purposely doing the same action over and over again. It’s more like me reading the back cover of a book over and over again. I did not really enjoy the book nor will I care about a sequel.

The difference is that I earn achievements by playing all contents of the game. I grind for a legendary in a specific location. I could have a legendary with 500 achievement points and not have a legendary at 15,000 achievement points.

If we hate dungeons, being forced to do them to remain competitive is a grind. sorry.

What? I started dungeons with rare gear. My first exotic dungeon set was from TA. Then with mats I had and some bought, I had my friend CRAFT me an exotic set. All other sets of armor from dungeons is my reward for grouping with friends to master the mechanics of each dungeon.

If you spent 10mins with me on Ventrilo during a dungeon run, you will know that I hate skipping content that is considered hard by the GW2 community. Of lately, I have pugged a few CoF and insisted that we defend Mag the legit way.

Most importantly is that you do not have to run dungeons to remain competitive. There is many ways to obtain exotic gear, and you don’t even have to step foot in a dungeon if you want a Legendary.

Lol, did you miss the detail that ascended gear is 20-50% better than exotic? Besides, I have zero interest in mastering the mechanics of any dungeon, lol. Why force me to do so?

For something that gives about 8 more Power/Precision, I find it hard to believe it will be 20-50% better than exotics. And by your math, that’d mean Exotics are close to 200% times better than Rares

They said they will add more.

Reset the stats and put the infusions on all exotics. Collecting Exotic and upgrading them provides much more endgame and doesn’t limit endgame to one location.

They said they will add more Ascendant Gear, not more stats.

The stat increase over exotics outside endless dungeons needs to go. It will destroy the game.

How is the stat increase any different from the stat increase from Rare > Exotics? If anything the difference between Rares and Exotics is a bigger problem than Exotics and Pinks.

And I’m pretty sure they announced they would release ways to acquire Pinks outside of FotM. Oh and btw, you actually craft the Pinks via Mystic Forge. And you get most of the mats outside the endless dungeon anyways so no worries there^^

The only thing you get from the dungeon is Vials and I’ve gotten like 5 vials going from lvl 1 to 6 the first day.

Rare is for under 80. Exotic stats are the cap. Once you reach 80 and get your exotic you are now on a level playing field with other lvl 80’s. This makes the game skill based.

A new tier makes the game not about skill.

Well considering the new tier is a small jump in stats from the two where 3 stacks of might does more for you than ascendant gear. In addition, it only affects PvE and WvW.

And people who are good at PvE will still be good at PvE since it’s literally something as small as getting a crit off or not.

And for WvW, well WvW is more about large battles and multiman fights with lowbies and 80s and geared 80s. It’s rare gear ever comes into play and it if does, RNG plays more of a factor.

Alberel Leonhart.9640:

Leonard.2867:

Ruby Orichalcum Ring of the Beserker
+67 Power
+48 Precision
+3% Critical Damage
w/ Exuisite Ruby Jewel
+ 25Power
+ 3 Critical Damage
+ 15 Precision

Total:
+92 Power
+63 Precision
+6% Critical Damage

vs.

Vine of the Pale Tree (Ascended Ring)
+103 Power
+50 Precision
+8% Critical Damage
+18 Vitality
-Unused Defensive Infusion Slot

Posted this on wrong thread. Anyways, I don’t know about you guys but even a +2% Critical Damage and 180 Health is a HUGE increase.

Don’t forget stats like power, crit chance and crit damage have a compounded effect as well. That’s not just +2% crit damage extra because you’re critting more often and it’s scaling up from a higher base damage.

Actually the 2% extra crit damage is not as good as it seems since it will be added to your current stats.

IE I have 56% crit damage on my guardian. 2% more crit damage is literally 1% more damage from crits.

Columba.9730:

Many haven’t gotten any essences since its rng driven.

Many haven’t gotten Essences since Many Pugs tend to skip ALL the trash. That in itself is a BIG no no when looking for an essence.

Leonard.2867:

Aleaf.8174:

Onshidesigns.1069:

Aleaf.8174:

Onshidesigns.1069:

Aleaf.8174:

Columba.9730:

Leonard.2867:

Columba.9730:

Leonard.2867:

Xandax.1753:

It’s not actually the ‘grind’ most people disagree with.
It is the grind to advance instead of a grind ‘at your own leisure’. It’s why people mention vertical and horizontal progression. Need gear to get gear versus get gear to get other (often cosmetic) stuff.

There were people who complained about Legendaries being difficult to get; but they weren’t many. There were people complaining about WvW badge drop rate; but they weren’t many.
I’ve seen nobody complain about the grind to acquire titles from the achievement list.

It’s not the grind per se. It’s the enforced grind and what it represents and how many people have experienced it affecting other games most seem to object to.
And it’s the going back on words by ANet. The change in design philosophy.

It’s just easier to write ‘grind’ than a long explanation and most people seem to understand the difference …. except when wanting to cause argument.

Maybe your looking at it wrong? Achievements is more like reading a good book with a conclusion. Then you find out there is a sequel to the book. I look at the Achievements and figure out where to ponder in Tyria to complete my goals. Some are more repetitive, but its mostly from playing the game in a ‘normal’ sense.

Grinding is me purposely doing the same action over and over again. It’s more like me reading the back cover of a book over and over again. I did not really enjoy the book nor will I care about a sequel.

The difference is that I earn achievements by playing all contents of the game. I grind for a legendary in a specific location. I could have a legendary with 500 achievement points and not have a legendary at 15,000 achievement points.

If we hate dungeons, being forced to do them to remain competitive is a grind. sorry.

What? I started dungeons with rare gear. My first exotic dungeon set was from TA. Then with mats I had and some bought, I had my friend CRAFT me an exotic set. All other sets of armor from dungeons is my reward for grouping with friends to master the mechanics of each dungeon.

If you spent 10mins with me on Ventrilo during a dungeon run, you will know that I hate skipping content that is considered hard by the GW2 community. Of lately, I have pugged a few CoF and insisted that we defend Mag the legit way.

Most importantly is that you do not have to run dungeons to remain competitive. There is many ways to obtain exotic gear, and you don’t even have to step foot in a dungeon if you want a Legendary.

Lol, did you miss the detail that ascended gear is 20-50% better than exotic? Besides, I have zero interest in mastering the mechanics of any dungeon, lol. Why force me to do so?

For something that gives about 8 more Power/Precision, I find it hard to believe it will be 20-50% better than exotics. And by your math, that’d mean Exotics are close to 200% times better than Rares

They said they will add more.

Reset the stats and put the infusions on all exotics. Collecting Exotic and upgrading them provides much more endgame and doesn’t limit endgame to one location.

They said they will add more Ascendant Gear, not more stats.

The stat increase over exotics outside endless dungeons needs to go. It will destroy the game.

How is the stat increase any different from the stat increase from Rare > Exotics? If anything the difference between Rares and Exotics is a bigger problem than Exotics and Pinks.

And I’m pretty sure they announced they would release ways to acquire Pinks outside of FotM. Oh and btw, you actually craft the Pinks via Mystic Forge. And you get most of the mats outside the endless dungeon anyways so no worries there^^

The only thing you get from the dungeon is Vials and I’ve gotten like 5 vials going from lvl 1 to 6 the first day.

The Difference is: can you obtain Ascended gear from previous established dungeons?

And technically you can since a majority of the drops don’t even come from the Fractal itself. And let’s face it, Explorer Mode is faceroll easy. I can prolly beat Giganticus solo.

Well if they had released Fractals on day 1, would it have changed your view on Pink?

Onshidesigns.1069:

Aleaf.8174:

Onshidesigns.1069:

Aleaf.8174:

Columba.9730:

Leonard.2867:

Columba.9730:

Leonard.2867:

Xandax.1753:

It’s not actually the ‘grind’ most people disagree with.
It is the grind to advance instead of a grind ‘at your own leisure’. It’s why people mention vertical and horizontal progression. Need gear to get gear versus get gear to get other (often cosmetic) stuff.

There were people who complained about Legendaries being difficult to get; but they weren’t many. There were people complaining about WvW badge drop rate; but they weren’t many.
I’ve seen nobody complain about the grind to acquire titles from the achievement list.

It’s not the grind per se. It’s the enforced grind and what it represents and how many people have experienced it affecting other games most seem to object to.
And it’s the going back on words by ANet. The change in design philosophy.

It’s just easier to write ‘grind’ than a long explanation and most people seem to understand the difference …. except when wanting to cause argument.

Maybe your looking at it wrong? Achievements is more like reading a good book with a conclusion. Then you find out there is a sequel to the book. I look at the Achievements and figure out where to ponder in Tyria to complete my goals. Some are more repetitive, but its mostly from playing the game in a ‘normal’ sense.

Grinding is me purposely doing the same action over and over again. It’s more like me reading the back cover of a book over and over again. I did not really enjoy the book nor will I care about a sequel.

The difference is that I earn achievements by playing all contents of the game. I grind for a legendary in a specific location. I could have a legendary with 500 achievement points and not have a legendary at 15,000 achievement points.

If we hate dungeons, being forced to do them to remain competitive is a grind. sorry.

What? I started dungeons with rare gear. My first exotic dungeon set was from TA. Then with mats I had and some bought, I had my friend CRAFT me an exotic set. All other sets of armor from dungeons is my reward for grouping with friends to master the mechanics of each dungeon.

If you spent 10mins with me on Ventrilo during a dungeon run, you will know that I hate skipping content that is considered hard by the GW2 community. Of lately, I have pugged a few CoF and insisted that we defend Mag the legit way.

Most importantly is that you do not have to run dungeons to remain competitive. There is many ways to obtain exotic gear, and you don’t even have to step foot in a dungeon if you want a Legendary.

Lol, did you miss the detail that ascended gear is 20-50% better than exotic? Besides, I have zero interest in mastering the mechanics of any dungeon, lol. Why force me to do so?

For something that gives about 8 more Power/Precision, I find it hard to believe it will be 20-50% better than exotics. And by your math, that’d mean Exotics are close to 200% times better than Rares

They said they will add more.

Reset the stats and put the infusions on all exotics. Collecting Exotic and upgrading them provides much more endgame and doesn’t limit endgame to one location.

They said they will add more Ascendant Gear, not more stats.

The stat increase over exotics outside endless dungeons needs to go. It will destroy the game.

How is the stat increase any different from the stat increase from Rare > Exotics? If anything the difference between Rares and Exotics is a bigger problem than Exotics and Pinks.

And I’m pretty sure they announced they would release ways to acquire Pinks outside of FotM. Oh and btw, you actually craft the Pinks via Mystic Forge. And you get most of the mats outside the endless dungeon anyways so no worries there^^

The only thing you get from the dungeon is Vials and I’ve gotten like 5 vials going from lvl 1 to 6 the first day.

Onshidesigns.1069:

Aleaf.8174:

Columba.9730:

Leonard.2867:

Columba.9730:

Leonard.2867:

Xandax.1753:

It’s not actually the ‘grind’ most people disagree with.
It is the grind to advance instead of a grind ‘at your own leisure’. It’s why people mention vertical and horizontal progression. Need gear to get gear versus get gear to get other (often cosmetic) stuff.

There were people who complained about Legendaries being difficult to get; but they weren’t many. There were people complaining about WvW badge drop rate; but they weren’t many.
I’ve seen nobody complain about the grind to acquire titles from the achievement list.

It’s not the grind per se. It’s the enforced grind and what it represents and how many people have experienced it affecting other games most seem to object to.
And it’s the going back on words by ANet. The change in design philosophy.

It’s just easier to write ‘grind’ than a long explanation and most people seem to understand the difference …. except when wanting to cause argument.

Maybe your looking at it wrong? Achievements is more like reading a good book with a conclusion. Then you find out there is a sequel to the book. I look at the Achievements and figure out where to ponder in Tyria to complete my goals. Some are more repetitive, but its mostly from playing the game in a ‘normal’ sense.

Grinding is me purposely doing the same action over and over again. It’s more like me reading the back cover of a book over and over again. I did not really enjoy the book nor will I care about a sequel.

The difference is that I earn achievements by playing all contents of the game. I grind for a legendary in a specific location. I could have a legendary with 500 achievement points and not have a legendary at 15,000 achievement points.

If we hate dungeons, being forced to do them to remain competitive is a grind. sorry.

What? I started dungeons with rare gear. My first exotic dungeon set was from TA. Then with mats I had and some bought, I had my friend CRAFT me an exotic set. All other sets of armor from dungeons is my reward for grouping with friends to master the mechanics of each dungeon.

If you spent 10mins with me on Ventrilo during a dungeon run, you will know that I hate skipping content that is considered hard by the GW2 community. Of lately, I have pugged a few CoF and insisted that we defend Mag the legit way.

Most importantly is that you do not have to run dungeons to remain competitive. There is many ways to obtain exotic gear, and you don’t even have to step foot in a dungeon if you want a Legendary.

Lol, did you miss the detail that ascended gear is 20-50% better than exotic? Besides, I have zero interest in mastering the mechanics of any dungeon, lol. Why force me to do so?

For something that gives about 8 more Power/Precision, I find it hard to believe it will be 20-50% better than exotics. And by your math, that’d mean Exotics are close to 200% times better than Rares

They said they will add more.

Reset the stats and put the infusions on all exotics. Collecting Exotic and upgrading them provides much more endgame and doesn’t limit endgame to one location.

They said they will add more Ascendant Gear, not more stats.

Kerithlan.1659:

Aleaf.8174:

Kerithlan.1659:

PopeUrban.2578:

People never felt they had a need for legendaries to do the current content despite the statistical advantage, but suddenly, people feel they have a need to acquire ascended gear for purposes other than the only place were you actually do need the gear.

Forgive me if I’m being ignorant or bothersome, but which statistical advantage are you speaking of, dear friend?

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Nightmare_Longbow
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Kudzu

I might not be the most well-informed player, but I am relatively certain that these items are statistically identical.

Prior to anyone actually making an legendary and what we drew from Beta, Legendaries were under the idea they had a minor stat increase in their stats (similar to what ascendant gear has to exotics atm).

I was in the Beta and was never under any such impressions. I understood ArenaNet’s attitude toward gear from my years of experience with Guild Wars 1. Could you either elaborate as to who “we” were, or link to an article by a developer describing legendary items prior to their emergence in-game stating that they would have better stats?

While I would love to find ya a picture of the old legendaries on the Wiki, I don’t have the time nor the care to look for them. I can assure you that’s how they were originally thought to be. Even at that, we’re looking at an additional 8 power/precision on zerker gear. That’s literally a tiny increase in stats. I get more from a stack of Might.

Leonard.2867:

Aleaf.8174:

Leonard.2867:

azmodeus.3409:

i love the ascended gear, it was greatly needed. something to work towards without giving too much advantage.

Advantage against who? Other players in WvW? Other mobs/bosses in other dungeons?

Can you take full exotics from Arah and run lvl 20 FOTM? Even playing field?

Agony as a mechanic during boss fight is simply tacked onto most large scale AoE attacks/projectiles as it is. So if you avoid the circles and dodge the balls of fun coming you’re way, you will more or less be able to clear the content without Ascendant Gear.

Aye, thank you for answering. So from your experience, why does one need ascended gear then? Why do we need +stats and anti-agony?

I gotcha in the other post.

Columba.9730:

Leonard.2867:

Columba.9730:

Leonard.2867:

Xandax.1753:

It’s not actually the ‘grind’ most people disagree with.
It is the grind to advance instead of a grind ‘at your own leisure’. It’s why people mention vertical and horizontal progression. Need gear to get gear versus get gear to get other (often cosmetic) stuff.

There were people who complained about Legendaries being difficult to get; but they weren’t many. There were people complaining about WvW badge drop rate; but they weren’t many.
I’ve seen nobody complain about the grind to acquire titles from the achievement list.

It’s not the grind per se. It’s the enforced grind and what it represents and how many people have experienced it affecting other games most seem to object to.
And it’s the going back on words by ANet. The change in design philosophy.

It’s just easier to write ‘grind’ than a long explanation and most people seem to understand the difference …. except when wanting to cause argument.

Maybe your looking at it wrong? Achievements is more like reading a good book with a conclusion. Then you find out there is a sequel to the book. I look at the Achievements and figure out where to ponder in Tyria to complete my goals. Some are more repetitive, but its mostly from playing the game in a ‘normal’ sense.

Grinding is me purposely doing the same action over and over again. It’s more like me reading the back cover of a book over and over again. I did not really enjoy the book nor will I care about a sequel.

The difference is that I earn achievements by playing all contents of the game. I grind for a legendary in a specific location. I could have a legendary with 500 achievement points and not have a legendary at 15,000 achievement points.

If we hate dungeons, being forced to do them to remain competitive is a grind. sorry.

What? I started dungeons with rare gear. My first exotic dungeon set was from TA. Then with mats I had and some bought, I had my friend CRAFT me an exotic set. All other sets of armor from dungeons is my reward for grouping with friends to master the mechanics of each dungeon.

If you spent 10mins with me on Ventrilo during a dungeon run, you will know that I hate skipping content that is considered hard by the GW2 community. Of lately, I have pugged a few CoF and insisted that we defend Mag the legit way.

Most importantly is that you do not have to run dungeons to remain competitive. There is many ways to obtain exotic gear, and you don’t even have to step foot in a dungeon if you want a Legendary.

Lol, did you miss the detail that ascended gear is 20-50% better than exotic? Besides, I have zero interest in mastering the mechanics of any dungeon, lol. Why force me to do so?

For something that gives about 8 more Power/Precision, I find it hard to believe it will be 20-50% better than exotics. And by your math, that’d mean Exotics are close to 200% times better than Rares

Leonard.2867:

Aye, thank you for answering. So from your experience, why does one need ascended gear then? Why do we need +stats and anti-agony?

It’s there to help those who either mess up with the dodge rolling and the +stats are just to help make things run faster. I imagine the trash mobs do eventually scale up in difficulty to how some trash mobs of the harder mobs introduced (lvl 84 veteran karkas I’m looking at you). As for the bosses themselves, the agony mechanic is rather shallow if you do avoid the hits.

And yeah I don’t have Ascendant(Ima call Pink) Gear. I have a ton of those vials though. Those things drop like candy. Pink Gear themselves are too expensive to craft outright and I am not one to farm T6 mats for such a minor upgrade in stats. I’d rather save it for my legendary I’ll eventually get.

I think my only wish if they had rolled Pink Gear into Exotic Gear (Like throwing in your Exotics with a Gift of the Mist and it spits out an Pink Version of it) and having infusion slots added with the minor points added from the Infusions you can get via crafting the way Sigils and Runes are.