Guild Wars 2

I don’t have any hate for Mesmer (it’s actually my second favorite profession in the game). Most of what they do is fine. PU deserved a nerf though, and it got one.

atlrising.5134:

Bull kitten, let one stealth up behind you and you still say that.

If you’re afraid of a Thief showing up behind you then you aren’t very good at this game

There are many things that could be done to improve and differentiate Acrobatics if there were the desire. A +25% movespeed minor seems like a no brainer, given that Thief is supposed to be the “most mobile”.

I’m going to keep this short and simple.

There are two Thief changes that should absolutely be in Tuesday’s patch, as they were things that were promised or that were changed for every other profession on a game-wide level. If these changes aren’t present, it will be conclusive proof that Thief isn’t taken seriously as a profession, and that nothing about that is going to change:

Withdraw: Thieves were told they would get an increase of +10% healing on Withdraw to compensate for the raise in cooldown. This change remains unimplemented, and Thieves haven’t been able to get a single response on delivering what was promised after three months of politely asking. Unacceptable.

Pistol Range: The June 23rd patch removed most of the range increasing traits in the game in favor of making them baseline. The next few patches after that finished the job… except for Ankle Shots. Ankle Shots is the only remaining range increasing trait in the game, and it’s not even listed on the tooltip. If ArenaNet is really serious about buffing Pistol, they should start by bringing it up to the same standard as every other weapon in the entire game. Be consistent.

Thief mains just want to be treated with the same dignity and respect that is afforded to players of every other profession. Really, is that so much to ask?

A 20% buff will barely make a difference. Vital Shot needs a faster attack speed at the least, and Body Shot needs to be redesigned into something worth using.

I hope there’s a lot more in Tuesday’s patch than the tidbits we were given.

Black Frog.9274:

to fix something, you must first admit it is broken

Arrow.4619:

plus the equivalent of the old Feline Grace Adept Acrobatics Trait

Enforcer Training is no Feline Grace, I’ll tell you that. People would be somewhat happy if we literally got Feline Grace back.

wolfpaq.7354:

I’d like to further point out that the dodge they gave is is effectively a recycled MINOR TRAIT that they removed from the acrobatics line.

A worse version of it, to boot. That’s right: an elite specialization’s defining minor is worse than the Acrobatics minor removed in favor of the new one in the first place!

How to fix Thief: get someone who is passionate about the profession working on it.

Cynz.9437:

It is actually very simple: “our” dev went for balance, other devs went for powercreep/cool stuff + they don’t communicate apprently. So here we go, got short end of the balance stick so to say.

Balance has nothing to do with it. There is a clear and visible LACK of passion and excitement for Daredevil. This stands in stark contrast to the rest.

Nike.2631:

My understanding is the Physical heal skill Channeled Vigor is specifically in flux. What would make it better? Would we better off with some regen at the end if we are at full endurance rather than a flat +heal?

It’s being changed to a 3/4 to 1s channel. Assuming the heal amount stays the same, it should be solidly useful at that speed.

Nike.2631:

Driven Fortitude is already a self-heal/sustain. Is it enough in the new more challenging landscape?

Everyone and their mother has suggested that Escapist’s Absolution be rolled into Driven Fortitude for a reason: DF really sucks and barely meets the standards of a minor. For some reason, they seem really reluctant to give strong healing over time to the Thief; Invigorating Precision is as good as it gets.

Nike.2631:

Also weakening strikes might be really good for taking the sting out of enemies. Longer duration on the weakness condition to smooth the incoming damage curve?

Not a bad idea. Weakness is actually really strong. Much like a bevy of other conditions, it seems like something that Thief should be great at applying, but actually isn’t.

Shalien.9018:

Don’t forget the fact that breakbars will make mobs uninterruptable so our Pulmonary Impact on interrupt trait will be outright useless against all boss mobs. We got a trait specifically for trash mobs, yay!

To be honest, Daredevil seems almost entirely designed around PvP without much thought toward how it’ll function in PvE.

Edit:

Nike.2631:

Players have break bars? News to me.

Until very recently, a number of elite specialization mechanics did, but ArenaNet decided it was too counter-intuitive and remade those.

Nike.2631:

I’m pretty sure any “we want to kill the zerker meta” is gonna be felt by all professions and isn’t uniquely anti-thief persecution. If people are going to wither over time in the new encounters, it’s gonna happen to everybody.

The Zerk meta dying is good. You shouldn’t be able to successfully beat what is meant to be the most challenging group content with 10 glass cannons.

Hearing that dodges won’t save you from dying in the new content is more concerning, given that Daredevil is based entirely around dodges. There were also several comments made during the presentation insinuating that group healing will be required for the new content, which is giving people PTSD flashbacks of WoW

Nike.2631:

So lets focus on getting us to a good place, and not the constant out-of-class comparisons that are usually horribly misinformed anyway.

There’s only so much we can do there if our profession’s design lead isn’t interested in doing the same. We have provided limitless amounts of good ideas over the last week alone, but it won’t amount to much if our feedback isn’t taken into consideration.

You like reminding people of what is and isn’t realistic to expect from development, and make no mistake: it is not realistic to expect a hail mary overhaul of Thief/Daredevil in the 11th hour before HoT release… especially not with Karl at the helm.

SkiTz.4590:

Re roll classes boys…

Or speak with your wallet and don’t buy the expansion until they AT LEAST address some of these major concerns head on.

If you keep throwing your money at them every time they do something wrong, they’re never going to learn. That’s basic economics.

The best part was when they referred to “the condition weakness Rangers have always had”, and then revealed some of the best condition cleansing in the game after.

But condition cleansing for Thieves? “Situational”!

Hexalot.8194:

Thief gets short straw ?

Dragon hunters would beg to disagree…

You just got the second shortest straw. At least your core profession is in a good place

Would now be a good time to mention yet again that both elite specializations in question were designed by the same person? What a strange coincidence…

There are a lot of reasons to be very concerned after that presentation (including ones that have nothing to do with Druid), but we’ll see…

All I’m gonna say is that Skill Balance presentation later in the day better impress.

They really should bring back the ability to choose your jewel in SPvP. It’d obviate the need for new amulets.

Driften.8716:

1) Are DD dodges really worth waiting to use as a GM trait and loosing GM traits over there main mechanic? We have on one side where half the community feels they will be better utilized as an un-GMed UI select option (F3-5) with a CD when switching while leaving opportunity for new GMs to further benefit there dodges. Than we have the other half who believes the dodges are strong enough as they are to be considered GMs but need additional work to solidify there functions as being competitive with the rest of the expansion.

It bears mentioning that only a very small minority is really lobbying to make the dodges separate buttons on F3-F5 that are usable in combat. The rest of us would be fine with a simple Revenant Legend style drop-down box that is locked while in combat/an active SPvP match. This is an important point of distinction, as people keep bringing up the in combat thing as a strawman to dismiss the whole idea.

Driften.8716:

2) 1 additional dodge is lame for a new mechanic in comparision to other Elite Specials. On one side we have people who believe it only gives us an advantage at the start of battle but will not be beneficial once used since the endurance regen will not fill it up fast enough. On the other hand we have a group that believes there will be plenty of regen and it will work out great.

If we’re being asked to accept the boosted dodge bar as Daredevil’s “elite mechanic”, it needs to do a lot more than it currently does. Others have mentioned that having 150% of normal endurance should scale base endurance regen accordingly, and I agree. There is also major inconsistency in terms of what Endurance-restoring effects do for the Daredevil. At best, one or two restore the amount you would think they should.

If a bigger Endurance bar is truly our “thing”—meant to rival berserking and turning back time—then we need to be able to use it to full effect. The changes mentioned above would further differentiate what currently feels like a mechanic hastily slapped-on.

Driften.8716:

As for those that say “Just don’t use Dash” this is the best preferred dodge at this time with it’s condition removal and does not cause you to loose stealth when activated. And yes some of us would still like to use stealth.

Indeed. To reiterate, if we are being asked to accept the dodges as our real GM traits, then they need to be the best possible dodges they can be. Right now, all three dodges have problems interacting with Shadow Refuge, which is one of the few powerful and iconic abilities Thief has, and not something they should be asked to go without. It remains to be seen how much Dash’s tweaking will hinder SR in practice, but Lotus should definitely have its direct damage removed to help.

The rest is straightforward stuff I generally agree with. Good summary!

Nike.2631:

I think the Daredevil has room to get stronger (and maybe even should) but that if we get those gains its gonna be inside the existing framework and not come by granting all three current GMs as a toggle that can be changed mid-match AND forcing them to come up with three more GW-magnitude traits, code them, and test them before a very real, very public deadline of Oct 23.

Between insinuating that people are demanding 100% of their suggestions be implemented to attaching the unrealistic idea of switching dodges mid-combat to the unrelated discussion about GM traits, strawmans seem to be your bread and butter. Guess I’ll just stop responding to your posts and spend my time on the reasonable ones.

Nike.2631:

blah blah blah

I suppose you would like to argue in favor of developer silence, as well? Because ultimately, you are just a random poster on the forum, not an employee of ArenaNet. If Karl wants to tell us that what we are asking for is unrealistic before release/ever, he is welcome to speak up at any time. Some of us would certainly appreciate the honesty.

Until then, I and others will continue bringing up our serious concerns in the feedback thread, because that’s what it’s for.

People have issues with some of the elite mechanics. This is not news, and it’s also missing the point. The point is that all of those mechanics are things that feel meaty enough to be elite mechanics. There are some potentially useful bits about having a third dodge bar, but it’s not a big or exciting enough addition compared to the rest (nor does it in any way interact with the core Thief mechanic of Stealth, but that ship has sailed). Add the Dodges in baseline and suddenly you have something equivalent to the rest, imagine that!

I swear… some of the people in this thread must be applying for forum mod. Arguing in favor of the status quo for no reason whatsoever. At least half of the other professions are getting meaningful hands on attention and improvements as a result of that, but let’s not ask for that as Thieves because that would be… bad somehow?

If you really think an extra dodge every now and then is equivalent to…

• Warrior: the ability to go berserk, gaining 15s of +10% attack speed, a one-stock adrenaline bar that counts as three, and access to upgraded “primal” burst skills

• Guardian: upgraded virtues that do more powerful things, including a leaping AoE heal and a ranged root that hits multiple targets

• Revenant: the ability to pulse +50% Boon duration around you for as long as you want, with the option to put it on CD to give out Fury, Might, Regen, Protection, and Swiftness

• Engineer: the ability to stomp or resurrect from 750 units away while doing other things

• Necromancer: an upgraded Death Shroud called “Reaper Shroud” that grants access to new and powerful abilities

• Elementalist: the ability to “overload” attunements after staying in them long enough, granting powerful effects to yourself and those around you

• Mesmer: a powerful new shatter skill that literally lets them rewind time

…then I have some swampland I’d love to sell you

Add in Daredevil’s GM dodges and the gap begins to close… but as many of you are so eager to point out, those are well-balanced GM traits, not the elite mechanic (that’s the extra dodge pip and nothing but), so by your own logic the comparison doesn’t seem fair.

BobbyT.7192:

You don’t think 450 range dodge that removes immoblize is GM worthy?

My thoughts on the usefulness of Dash aside, I think you’re setting up what they call a false dilemma. There is no intrinsic reason that the dodges have to be attached to GM traits, other than that was how they were first designed internally.

I honestly can’t see why you’d argue in defense of losing a set of real GM traits unless you’re one of those people who argues for the status quo by default. By having the dodges come from a Revenant Legend style drop-down list—as it should have been in the first place--you lose nothing, and gain what all the other elite specializations already have. Who doesn’t like having more options?

Shogun.7401:

I think it’s because we have not heard any official response from Dev stating that they are going to do any improvements on thief class. I am not talking about elite specialization.

This is a big concern for sure. It is because we have heard so little on much needed fixes for the core Thief profession (other than “Pistols are something we want to look at”) that I am focused on delivering the best possible Daredevil feedback. If it really is as much of a band-aid meant to hold us off for another 2-3 years as it appears to be, then we better make sure it’s the best possible band-aid

alchemyst.2165:

Everyone crying about our new “elite spec mechanic” being “locked into a gm trait” is really starting to become annoying.

Delivering feedback in the feedback thread that you personally disagree with does not make it “crying”. Try to be constructive.

alchemyst.2165:

Technically our new mechanic is being able to dodge three times, which is actually pretty big, considering that is something very unique to daredevil.

I wouldn’t call a watered down version of something Thieves had from the release of the game to three months ago “unique”, nor is it very big on its own. In PvP, it’ll play out as one extra dodge at the beginning of a fight and then the rest will go as usual.

alchemyst.2165:

Also, toggling dodges in combat would just be too much, too complicated, and somewhat pointless, since most people would just stay in one dodge most of the time.

Good thing that isn’t what 90% of us “whiners” are suggesting. Changing dodges in combat would be both hard to implement and hard to balance, so it’s not what most people are asking for. Guess you cared more about shutting down the “whiners” than delivering a factual argument, though.

alchemyst.2165:

Besides, chances are this won’t change.

And here we have the cherry on top. Don’t ask for practical improvements, don’t ask for parity in how elite specializations are treated, don’t ask for accountability on the part of developers, because things just won’t change!

Well then, since nothing will change, go ahead and help yourself right out of the thread. The rest of us will continue communicating useful feedback that could actually improve the Daredevil in a meaningful manner.

“The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person doing it." – Chinese proverb

Bllade.1029:

Agreed 100%. Does Reaper need to spec into a GM trait to gain Reaper Shroud? Does Tempest need a GM trait to Overload?

Should DD be forced to choose one GM trait just to use its core mechanic? The Dodges should be a package deal, here’s DD you get an extra endurance bar and three unique dodges you can select from via this handy dandy UI we put in; very much like Revenant.

Here are you GM traits, they compliment your over all play style depending on your needs.

That pretty much sums it up. Reading other elite specialization GM traits and seeing how much they bring to the table on top of the elite mechanics they’re already getting makes me legitimately frustrated, especially when it’s something that you could copy over boilerplate and address a major Thief need (such as Scrapper’s Adaptive Armor, which grants up to 5 stacks worth of a Toughness buff when hit, as well as a passive -20% incoming condition damage).

Rising Dusk.2408:

I’m shocked that you’ve persisted so diligently in asserting that the Daredevil GMs aren’t “real”. They all have very real effects on dodge, and all augment dodge in a unique way that makes them very strong. I’m not sure what you genuinely expect to change in response to your complaints.

How many other elite specializations trade a whole tier of trait choices for their elite mechanic, exactly? Oh right… zero.

Or are you going to insist with a straight face that it’s an extra dodge-bar pip?

You may want to read my post more closely.

Seconding what everyone else said: while Thief desperately needs more access to boons, more direct access to them would further encourage an already boon heavy meta that not a lot of people enjoy. Stealing boons would be much more flavorful and balanced.

“Salt” or otherwise, it’s irresponsible on a development level to not consider the current context and usage of a class that benefits from a bug before fixing it, lest you kick someone who’s already down for no real meaningful gain.

Is the fix to this bug going to be immediate or will we have to wait a while?

Let this be a lesson to all the people who were claiming matchmaking was fine… mindlessly defending the status quo when there’s signs that something is up isn’t helpful.

I do appreciate his higher rate of posting, but I’m looking for quality over quantity. He has yet to address any concern unrelated to the Staff or the new Dodges (which are the selling points of the spec so it’s kind of a given those will be improved). I don’t expect a response on everything salient, but a response on anything salient would be good.

NapTooN.6283:

Pistol has 1050 with Ankle Shots.

I’m not sure even ArenaNet realizes this, as it’s not listed on the tooltip and no other profession in the game still has a trait that increases weapon range (the rest were made baseline). This is a very indicative example of why people complain about Thief not getting attention. If Thieves are left out of game-wide shifts in trait design that every other profession is included in, what are the chances of some of Thief’s bigger problems getting a look? Not very high from where I’m standing.

Bllade.1029:

This has much larger fundamental issues than the simple utility of the ability. The problem is not how practical the ability is or if this elite will even be commonly used; the problem is that with a click of a button this elite can shut down an entire trait line.

This trait line being Shadow Arts, is currently the only viable defensive measure Thieves have available to them. This is an indirect Nerf to Shadow Arts; and not counter play. One ability does not define counter-play.

This type of thought process has led an ugly spiral downward for the Thief and is a large contributor to why the Thief is currently in the position it’s in now.

This is a very meaningful point. Whether people take Sneak Gyro is irrelevant to the greater issue of how the Thief profession is viewed from a design perspective. They keep adding more and more reveals to the game with nary a thought as to how that might affect an already weak profession that relies on stealth just to survive.

And make no mistake, the way the developers see Thief is flawed and drastically in need of revision (it might help if any of them actually played one). Witness this post from Karl last week during the EA discussion:

Karl McLain.5604:

I’ve seen a lot of feedback on how Escapist’s Absolution should be baseline. It is the case that we believe this trait is powerful enough that it should be a choice in the trait line between damage, survivability and utility, rather than just a given. Driven Fortitude’s healing allows for usefulness in all modes where you take damage, where EA’s condition removal is situationally useful in a combat scenario.

That’s not just how Karl sees us, it’s how the entire development team sees us. Thief condition removal is fine, and removing a condition on evade is simultaneously powerful and “situationally useful”… need I say more?

Karl,

How much longer are you going to ignore the elephant in the room of the dodges unnecessarily taking the spot of real Grandmaster traits? Are you not allowed to make a statement on it? Blink once for yes, twice for no

Karl,

It’s good to see all the progress on Dash—between the Immobilize break and the restoration of its original range, it should be worth using now (although much like Lotus, the way Dash interacts with Shadow Refuge still needs work).

That aside, people are still waiting for a formal statement on the status of getting real Grandmaster traits and the new Dodges coming from some other source. I noticed that your last reply came in the middle of two pages worth of discussion on this topic. Don’t think you can continue to ignore it. The missing Grandmaster traits are right behind Staff animations as people’s biggest concern by a mile. We need to hear something from you on this, even if it’s “time is limited and we won’t be able to get you real Grandmaster traits until after launch”. Honesty is the best policy, my friend

New Acrobatics Minor: +25% Movespeed

bhagwad.4281:

Oh that’s fine then. Different goals. I vote for what I think will give me the best chances you win. I play to win, you play for fun. No judgments.

Saying “no judgments” right after making one… what a cheeky lad you are!

Whether I vote for Courtyard or not is irrelevant (I tend to vote against it, and will continue to do so until it is made a separate queue like Stronghold). What is relevant is that you—the big bad pro gamer that plays to win—intentionally feed to cause your team to lose as fast as possible when you don’t get the map you want.

I think you may be confused as to which of us plays to win. If you need a hint, it’s the one who DOESN’T intentionally feed.

TheGrimm.5624:

Yes, yes it is. Want to give a reason why you think its not a good idea? Or are you the one attacking people after the game is over since you lost and you don’t want people to give you a GG and check the score.

I know this is hard for you to imagine, but not everyone sees things from the same perspective as you do. Say one was embroiled in a close and competitive fight right as the game ends… some people like to finish for the fun of it, as—drumroll—different people have different opinions of what is and isn’t fun! People sure are fascinating, huh?

Rather than making whole threads about your jimmies being rustled by the mean man who dared to attack you after the game was over and nothing mattered anymore, why not just leave the game at that point if it bothers you that much?

Nevermind, you’re right. We should definitely change something about the game that works for the the vast majority of people because a few overly sensitive people took it way too seriously. While we’re at it, could we please remove people’s ability to kill Thieves? It feels very “unsporting” when I die as one…

apocom.3172:

People always tend to view only at the things you get and not the things you give up for it.
Like another poster mentioned, don’t stop and hard to catch are not bad, but for sure they are no reason to pick up a traitline.

Unfortunately, opportunity cost is a concept lost on the vast majority of people.

Tarkan.5609:

Bugs are there to be fixed.
Imbalances are there to be worked on.

These two things have nothing to do with each other, that’s why I added the Basilisk Venom bug to the Thief Bugs…

A player shouldn’t want bugs to persist, because they are unwanted in a game. While I agree on Thief needing a nerf, I also want ALL of it’s bugs fixed (positive and negative ones).

It’s easy to say things like that in the realm of abstract rhetoric, but that’s not how things work in the real world. Read the post right above yours if you wish to know why

blarghhrrkblah.3412:

What is wrong with fixing broken skills? Making the class feel fluid and fun to play is going to be more important than it’s performance in a game mode. Once everything is working properly, then they can focus on looking at our changes, but for now I think they have the right priorities. Besides, there is nothing “simple” about fixing animations and functionality. That stuff is so much more than just a number that needs tweaking.

Without a doubt, the replacement dodges are the big “wow” selling point of the elite specialization. The problem is that the expansion is now less than a month away and the bedrock of Daredevil, the very foundation of it is just now starting to get tightened up to where it should have been before the whole thing was even revealed.

Many people have observed that Daredevil feels like it was hastily thrown together, and they aren’t wrong. Everything about it reeks of a rush job: an elite mechanic that doesn’t interact with the core profession mechanic, a whole tier of traits pointlessly sacrificed to unlock that mechanic, a name, weapon, and lack of internal cohesion that suggests a lack of vision for the specialization itself, and so on.

Daredevil feels like a first-pass internal prototype someone came up with 6 months ago. Where is the ongoing iteration into something visibly more interesting and fun? Where is the two-way communication with players that is leading to meaningful gains for other elite specializations? Where is the love and passion for Daredevil and Thief at large?

Wherever it is, it’s not in the elite specialization design or the level of engagement we’re getting from its lead developer.

Raven.9603:

What part of that do you disagree with and why?

I was in a frustrated mood and didn’t express myself well at all in that previous post. I am going to try again in a calmer and more detailed manner, as that is what this complicated situation demands. It involves a lot of interlocking issues—as well as years of frustration from Thieves simmering under the surface—so it’s not easily summarized.

To start: yes, good Engineers aren’t going to run Sneak Gyro in SPvP, as it’s over-specialized and not as versatile as the two elites in current use. With that in mind, I wouldn’t say that the Thieves complaining about how Sneak Gyro will “shut stealth down” are wrong or missing the point as much as they are not good at expressing what it is about the skill’s very existence that bothers them. From a developer’s perspective, this is a problem with players in general—they are good at expressing what frustrates them, but not why.

It is very disheartening to see Engineers receive a better version of one of the few Thief skills that are still relevant, given that it is likely to further obviate the need for Thieves in PvE. On top of that, Sneak Gyro will likely see a good amount of use by less skillful and/or experienced Engineers who have decided that they really dislike going against Stealth.

Realistically speaking, this further shrinks what is already an absurdly thin margin of error for the PvP Thief. It’s depressing to know that even when you outplay your opponent, the tiniest mistake will cause your ruin. That margin keeps getting tighter and tighter, and yet the Thief is not rewarded proportionately for when they do thoroughly outplay the opponent… unless you consider another 5-10 seconds of not dying a reward.

Raven.9603:

Revenants are about to be the most popular class in the game. Every single Rev will take Glint, because it is far and away their strongest line, and every single one of those Glint Rev’s will have Reveal. THAT directly hurts thieves exponentially more than stealth gyro. But where are the posts? Where is the rage over the reveals people are actually going to take?

People are still upset about that too, actually, but you’re seeing less posts about it because people have known about it for longer. Funnily enough, when the Herald’s Facet of Darkness was revealed people reacted the exact same way as they are to Scrapper’s Sneak Gyro now, despite one being a significantly bigger practical threat than the other. This should tell you that it’s less about the particulars and more about the general feeling of the Thief class being neglected—and worse, repeatedly nerfed without compensation on the few rare occasions it’s given any attention.

Really, can you blame people for being frustrated after witnessing a parade of elite specialization reveals that both give them tools we wish we had, and give them tools that will make our lives as Thieves even harder?

Lastly, here is the main part of your post I strongly disagreed with:

Raven.9603:

Stealth needs counterplay, because stealth without counterplay means the victim cant retaliate and that is a bad gaming experience for everyone whose not a thief or mesmer. That you cant see that really shows a lack of perspective outside this class. Reveal should be in the game, and probably more prevalent (i think the Revenant zerg is going to be your real issue).

Stealth does not need counterplay. The very way it was designed already provides multiple avenues of counterplay. Let’s not forget that Self-Reveal exists: 4 seconds after every use of Stealth is a long time to be exposed, especially for a class as reliant on Stealth for survival as Thief is. What Thief does with their Stealth is also very predictable: either they run away or they try to open on you with Backstab (which is very easy to blunt or negate the damage of when you know it’s coming and what to do when it does). That predictability while in Stealth also opens Thief up to ground-targeted AOEs and other shenanigans.

From where I’m standing, the problem has little to do with Stealth and almost entirely to do with Mesmers and how Stealth interacts with the rest of their mechanics. It turns out that Stealth gets a little ridiculous when you give it to a class with high burst damage that can be delivered from range, strong passive durability through traits, and powerful clones that can continue to confuse and misdirect after leaving stealth. Who would’ve knew?

Shadow Dragon Bob.7160:

Honestly, I don’t want the F3 through f5 dodge select. I want these grand master physical dodge training traits honed in and hard to select between.

Or we could have actual Grandmaster traits and instead choose our dodge from a drop-down box, much like how Revenant Legends work…

Sadly, I don’t blame anyone for reacting negatively to someone drawing attention to this bug. From a development standpoint, it’s way easier to fix bugs like this than it is to develop the meaningful improvements a class like Thief needs.

Ideally, a developer would be responsible and take the current state of a class with a bug like this into account before deciding on how/when to fix it. In the real world, classes that are already on the ropes often get bugs like this fixed when discovered, which just exacerbates an already awful situation—and yes, having the only viable Thief elite lose 33% effectiveness would be awful right now. Here’s to hoping THAT doesn’t happen

Ohoni.6057:

Maybe Dash could provide Super Speed instead of Swiftness? Engineers certainly get tons of Super Speed (and better Stealth than any Thief).

This is an interesting idea. For those who don’t know, Super Speed functions like Swiftness, except your speed can’t be reduced for any reason for its duration (i.e., you move +33% instead of +25% in combat and cripple/chill has no effect).

This would be a good fit for Dash’s design of being a quick burst of mobility that can help the Daredevil disengage from a sticky situation. It would also help to keep Expeditious Dodger in the Acrobatics line relevant (although that minor should provide more than two seconds of Swiftness if you want it to be useful).

I’ll miss that animation too, but if the choice comes down to cool animation or smooth dodge, I’ll take the smooth dodge.

On that note, one animation that could be recycled for Impaling Lotus would be a SUPER SHORT version of the spinning animation from Whirling Axe/Dagger Storm. Which is to say, you would do a 300 unit whirl in the direction of your choice that throws daggers.

The Shadowstep Dodge is a very cool idea, but as mentioned it doesn’t slot up with the “physical” theme of the Daredevil spec. If we ever get a core Thief revamp, it’d make a nice Shadow Arts trait (THAT could be GM worthy).

That’s a hilariously awesome idea, although it’d need a 5-10s ICD to not be ridiculous imo.