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BWE 3 Daredevil Specialization Changes

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Posted by: Amante.8109

Amante.8109

Karl,

While it’s good to hear that the dodges are being tightened up, it’s also the bare minimum that needs to be done for Daredevil to function at all. So many other issues with Daredevil—let alone core Thief—have yet to even be acknowledged…

Since you seem to be in a mood to discuss the dodges, can you give us the dev-team’s reasoning as to why Daredevil should be the only elite specialization that sacrifices an entire trait tier to unlock its elite mechanic? Just because it’s late in development and that’s how the dodges were prototyped internally doesn’t mean we should have to settle for less than what everyone else gets.

Obviously, this means you’d have to design new Grandmaster traits in a hurry due to the HoT release date rapidly approaching. If you need feedback on what would make a good set of real Grandmaster traits for the Daredevil, ask us. Right now, people are delivering all kinds of useful feedback on things it seems you don’t want feedback on, resulting in those people having wasted their time.

So tell us, Karl… what is it you want to hear from us? Do you care about feedback on anything but the dodges and the latest planned adjustments? Help us understand so we can stop wasting our time delivering feedback that isn’t wanted.

(edited by Amante.8109)

The Law of the Jungle

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Posted by: Amante.8109

Amante.8109

Oh, they take people’s suggestions into account… just not the ones from Thieves. A cursory look at the last three years of changes should tell they take non-Thief opinions of Thief very seriously.

Thief Suggestions... From a Non-Thief

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Posted by: Amante.8109

Amante.8109

You.

Thief Suggestions... From a Non-Thief

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Amante.8109

Care to offer any supporting evidence, or are we just supposed to take your word for it?

The Law of the Jungle

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Amante.8109

Oh man… if you think it’s bad here, it’s even worse on the PvP forum. Tread lightly!

The Law of the Jungle

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Amante.8109

It’d help if there were more than literally one non-Thief player suggesting constructive and well-thought changes. And believe me, it’s just that one—I’ve been keeping track

The Law of the Jungle

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Amante.8109

People need to start using other avenues than these forums to get their attention as well, as that has helped in similar situations with other games. These forums are really only looked at by people already playing the game. To really make a MMO developer sweat, you have to engage them on Twitter and other publicly visible places where a poor (or lack of) response makes them look bad to people who haven’t picked the game up yet.

Design Philosophy - about Escapist Absolution

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Amante.8109

Too much work, not enough paid hours, job’s stressful plus you got kids screaming you suck on the forums – I’ll just leave a note saying do it tomorrow (3 years later… the note is covered by another note saying the same thing) and do what makes me happy today, I guess, or maybe go help the gem store people out/HoT sales/marketing team.

I think that’s core philosophy.

Disturbingly accurate.

The Law of the Jungle

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Amante.8109

You are absolutely right, and I’m going to refer back to something I said recently in another thread:

Most of us have been patient for the better part of three years. The time for patience is over: HoT is now a month away and elite specializations revealed after ours are looking more thoroughly developed and significantly better overall (not to mention the years worth of still unaddressed design flaws with the Thief profession itself).

If anything, we need to be relentlessly vocal. It’s unfortunate, but it has been proven through similar situations in other MMOs that that the only way to get results as a marginalized class is to get extremely loud and make such a big stink that the developer can’t financially afford to keep ignoring it.

This doesn’t mean to get abusive, inflammatory, or mired in negativity, because there’s plenty of that to go around on this subforum already. It means standing together to hold ArenaNet accountable. Don’t accept vague, non-specific responses like “pistols are something we’re looking to improve”; demand concrete statements of intent and a tentative roadmap on how they plan to get the profession where it needs to be. Otherwise, we will continue to be ignored for another three years until the next expansion comes around and they want our money again…

Change Wish List

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Amante.8109

Originally by: ronpierce.2760

What: Thief Suggestions… From a Non-Thief
Thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Thief-Suggestions-From-a-Non-Thief/first

Seconded. There’s some solid ideas in there.

Mechanic denial

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Amante.8109

Stealth has counterplay: it’s called understanding how it works and exploiting its weaknesses (of which there are many).

But as usual, emotion and feeling trumps rationality and reason. Stealth FEELS bad to play against, especially when you don’t know how to handle it, so it must have no counterplay.

Engineer Utility "Sneak Gyro" is outrageous

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Amante.8109

So many things wrong here.

Yeah, like just about everything you’re saying. Judging by both your rhetoric and your post history, you don’t even play Thief, so you might want to listen to someone who does telling you in detail what its genuine weaknesses are.

Or you could just be like every other non-Thief player that wanders into our forum (other than ronpierce) and spew uninformed garbage all day. Why not? It worked to get Thieves nerfed up to this point, so people might as well keep doing it. Don’t stop until the profession is completely unplayable… Thief still has a few decent tricks despite being among the two weakest professions in the game. Can’t have that, can we?

BWE 3 Daredevil Specialization Changes

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Amante.8109

Karl,

We delivered reams of useful feedback over the weekend and still have yet to hear back on a number of vital issues. Can we please get an update on what’s being worked on?

(edited by Amante.8109)

Fixing Thief/DD

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Amante.8109

If we’re going to have to settle for Daredevil and everything that it (doesn’t) bring to the table, the least they could do is make each and every thing that says it restores “full” endurance restore 150 for DD. Even then, it wouldn’t stack up against old Feline Grace.

Courtyard

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Amante.8109

Exactly. Moral of the story – never pick courtyard unless you’re in a 5-man premade.

Moral of the story is I’ll vote for what I feel like playing, which is the whole reason a map voting system exists. If someone wants to intentionally feed like a child because they didn’t get their way, that’s their business.

Thief is least played class in current PvP?

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Amante.8109

Literally the only thing that makes Thief a staple in high-skill premade teams is Shortbow #5. Imagine, for a moment, that it were bugged and had to be disabled for a month. You would see Thieves disappear from all competitive teams overnight.

That’s not even addressing how miserable it is to play Thief in solo queue or lower brackets…

Mechanic denial

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Amante.8109

Who cares if stealth is unique to the Thief? It’s arguing semantics at this point. Regardless of how “unique” it is to Thief, no other profession relies on it so heavily just to survive, and that’s obviously the real problem here.

BWE 3 Daredevil Specialization Changes

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Amante.8109

I really dont think this would be reasonable. Most thieves Ive fought against can pretty much reapply stealth nearly instantly.

4 seconds is the opposite of “nearly instantly” in PvP. It’s an eternity.

If you havent fought against a permastealth thief yourself though, you have no idea how frustrating it can be, simply swinging in the air and trying to guess where that thief is. Especially if its a zerker build, as are you, and he can literally one shot you with backstab.

It’s only possible to do anything remotely similar to what you describe in WvW, and PvP should not be balanced around WvW, as it is an extension of the PvE of the game and more about server community than anything else.

Even in WvW, “perma-stealth” builds have a multitude of weaknesses that can be easily exploited if you know what you’re doing. But as usual, that doesn’t matter, because they’re not “fun” to fight against (nor is it “fun” to have to educate yourself about something outside of your area of experience), so the nerfs will keep on coming because these kind of opinions are the ones ArenaNet actually listens to.

Granted, there are exceptions, but something as simple as C&D and bam, yer gone again.

Speaking of things outside of one’s experience… if you think hitting C&D consistently is “simple”, I suggest you play a Thief in PvP for a week (or even a day) and then getting back to me with your experience afterwards

(edited by Amante.8109)

New Thief - little advice re builds.

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Amante.8109

All I can say is I hope you enjoy your Thief in PvE (I know I do), because it’s probably not going to be a satisfying profession to PvP with anytime soon.

So angry at the state of thief

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Posted by: Amante.8109

Amante.8109

Thieves got Illusionary Weaponry’d

Thief Suggestions... From a Non-Thief

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Amante.8109

Maybe remove healing power from it for balance? I made a Triforge and don’t want to see a big nerf that would make all those mats and grinding a big waste.

It’s a lot more egregious in SPvP, so they could start by removing the Celestial amulet and people could continue to do what they’re doing with Celestial in PvE/WvW for now.

In that way, a Celestial amulet having +130% stats (or whatever it actually is, I don’t feel like looking it up atm), is vastly inferior to a Berserker’s Amulet with +130% stats, which should be fairly obvious just by playing the game. That should help work as a reference point as to why there is that stat total difference.

Cele D/D Ele and Zerker D/D Ele is an interesting comparison, because the former is substantially stronger than the latter and I don’t think 30% extra stats on the Berserker amulet would change that.

I know Celestial used to suck (and still does for a lot of builds and professions), but I continue to believe that it’s far too binary. If a profession has solid durability and heal scaling, the chances of them having a strong Celestial spec are very high. It’s not a coincidence that a lot of the best builds are Celestial right now.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m okay with bruisers existing as a type of build, but there are non-Celestial stat packages that support that playstyle. If anything, Celestial supports the wrong kind of bruiser build, one that does way more damage than it should for something that durable. Bruisers are never an easy archetype to balance, and when they’ve been problematic in other games it’s been for the same reasons just listed.

(edited by Amante.8109)

Travelling projectiles breaking stealth

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Amante.8109

I have played Thief for years and never had a consistent problem with autoattacks interrupting stealth on any weapon but Pistol mainhand. That you can turn off autocasting to “solve” this issue is about as meaningful a solution as cutting off your feet so you don’t have to walk so much anymore.

But sure, let’s resort to name-calling and questioning people’s experience with a profession because they have a different opinion than you. I’m sure Vital Shot (and Pistol) are just fine.

Courtyard

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Posted by: Amante.8109

Amante.8109

You better hope I’m not on your team. It’s very easy to throw the game if you don’t like the courtyard map. Just go and suicide a few times and it’s over.

Bottom line: Unless each and every one of your teammates like courtyard, you shouldn’t vote for it.

I’ll be sure to poll my solo queue teammates the game hasn’t even revealed the names of yet as to whether they like the map I am picking, thanks.

Thief Suggestions... From a Non-Thief

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Amante.8109

i cannot stress enough how much of this can be solved simply by removing celestial. this amulet alone has done more damage to pvp over the past year and half (or so) than anything else i can possibly think of. it’s usage is completely binary. it either enables ridiculously strong builds or doesn’t do anything for a profession.

seeing celestial just removed entirely (or nerfed considerably) would do a lot of good for the professions i’ve mentioned using them, as it would help reduce the amount of profession-specific mechanics that need to be nerfed for the sake of celestial builds not to be overpowered.

GOD YES. I don’t understand how Celestial is still in the game; it’s so absurdly binary! When you design an amulet that’s 130% of the normal stat budget, spread across all stats, there are really only two possible outcomes: either it’s useless for a build, or the linchpin that makes that build disgustingly powerful. Just remove it already.

Thief Suggestions... From a Non-Thief

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Amante.8109

Thief tends to lack good fight presence. The burst is okay, but not as good as it once was, but I don’t think it is as bad as people suggest, I more think the gap between Thief and Mesmer became a bit too great and some Balancing needs to be done on Mesmer’s end as well.

Agreed. Other professions had their burst increased—so the gap between professions in terms of burst has shrunk some—but Thief’s is still quite good. Predictably, the bigger problem is that Thief often can’t survive long enough to deliver their potential burst. Until ArenaNet makes some major changes in the durability department, Thief will be a tough profession to even make adjustments to… so much potential is actively hindered or obscured by Thief’s inherent squishiness and lack of passive durability.

- Infiltrator’s Arrow, here’s the toughy, but an idea I wanted to throw out.

Infiltrator’s Arrow is such a huge, huge crutch for the Thief profession that I’m not even sure if there are meaningful balance adjustments to be made to it. At this point, I’d rather see it completely remade into something different (with some buffs and redesigns to the rest of Shortbow to even things out, of course). Maybe then Thieves could finally be allowed access to some of the tools every other profession seems to have.

- Improvisation, changed to “You can use Stolen items Twice. After stealing, your next utility has its cooldown reduced by 50%. I feel like this would reduce the RNG and the initial impact of certain resets while increasing the play. With the right set up and consideration, I feel like this could make for some better decision making and increase defenses in a more predictable manner. (Buff lasts 15 seconds.)

As much as I enjoy it at times, Improvisation definitely needs some kind of redesign. The more skill categories that are added, the more inconsistent Improv will get. My previous idea was to have it function mostly as now, but to reduce the recharge of a category of skills that ARE on your bar by 50% if the refresh RNG fails. Your idea would also work.

Most of your suggestions are generally on point, so I don’t have a lot of other specific feedback that immediately comes to mind

(edited by Amante.8109)

Thief forum is the new mesmer forum

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Amante.8109

No, I’m pretty sure I’m being plain old aggressive, because I find your posts a complete waste of everyone’s time.

Thief forum is the new mesmer forum

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Amante.8109

Seriously, I see no content in your post other than “mesmers and thieves have switched positions in terms of disenfranchisement”. Good job, I guess? Countless people in and out of this forum have made such an observation already, and without the passive-aggressive digs thrown in to boot.

Thief forum is the new mesmer forum

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Amante.8109

Other than making broad generalizations—many of which don’t line up—what point are you trying to make with this “serious joke”, exactly?

BWE 3 Daredevil Specialization Changes

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Posted by: Amante.8109

Amante.8109

But if I’m understanding you right, if you are in melee range, you swing, you hit, you backflip, you would not then be able to backflip again, you’d be forced to go back to where you started. You could only double backflip if you didn’t start in melee in the first place.

No, I would want this move to always be getting me further away from the enemy, I have two other Staff moves that bring me closer to them, which is two more than a lot of weapons offer. I don’t need three.

The argument seems to be that it’s more common to need to break 2-3 back to back Immobilizes than it is to break one and then get back in melee range.

While I’m not all that convinced that what you describe is a situation that comes up often enough to be a primary concern, I refer back to my original idea: adjusting Staff #3 so that if it hits, your first use of Staff #2 in the next X seconds costs nothing.

I see no reason to be against that idea, as Staff #3 would continue to function as desired in the situations you describe, while also giving you an option to re-engage without the needless waste of extremely precious resources. Everybody wins!

(edited by Amante.8109)

Fixing Thief/DD

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Amante.8109

Really, one thing people need to wrap their heads around is that there really isn’t that much difference anymore between adept/master/gm traits, since now if you unlock one tier, you unlock them all, whereas it used to be that you really had to commit to a tree to unlock the GMs.

This makes sense in theory, especially going by some of our awful GMs such as the fall damage one. Then you see something like Scrapper’s Adaptive Armor and it becomes obvious that ArenaNet still is attached to the idea of GMs being “stronger”.

Travelling projectiles breaking stealth

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Amante.8109

That’s a practical workaround (and not even a very good one), not an explanation for why it’s Thief’s only Weapon #1 with that problem. Some of us would rather not get RSI from mashing an ability that should be fine when used as an autoattack.

Vital Shot Defense Squad on the prowl tonight, apparently… why wouldn’t you want it improved? It’s slow and it does almost no damage (as Power OR Condi). Just awful.

(edited by Amante.8109)

Odds that Thief gets a buff?

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Amante.8109

However, the posts I read here seem to say otherwise…are Thieves just the black sheep of the family? Just getting pushed aside patch after patch?

More or less. Even with that aside, they don’t do big balance patches often enough… we’re averaging about 1.5 a year max at this point. Not ideal.

Transferred conditions still cause rallies

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Amante.8109

This bug is quite a doozy and it’s been around for a while. If ArenaNet really wants GW2 to be as Esports as badly as it seems, you can’t have bugs like this hanging around for the better part of three years

Courtyard

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Posted by: Amante.8109

Amante.8109

The best solution is still to add a “Deathmatch” checkbox in the queueing window right next to the “Conquest” and “Stronghold” checkboxes we’ve seen in BWE builds. This would allow people who hate Courtyard to never have to play it, and for people who like Courtyard to tailor their builds to it knowing it’s the map they’ll be getting. It’d also open things up for the addition of future Deathmatch maps, in theory

BWE 3 Daredevil Specialization Changes

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Posted by: Amante.8109

Amante.8109

Make the initial part of the ability cost 3 initiative; the flip ability a follow up gap closer that costs 1 and gives some sort of benefit, but you only get the flip ability if you actually contact a target with it. Kills two birds with one stone.

This is absolutely the right way to go. It preserves what’s already useful about Staff #3 while addressing the re-engagement concern. Making the proposed flip-skill only trigger on hit would mean you could still spam Staff #3 to get out of consecutive Immobilizes (especially from range), but that you would only be rewarded with an inexpensive re-engage if you used Staff #3 in melee range with the right timing.

(edited by Amante.8109)

Travelling projectiles breaking stealth

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Amante.8109

Trick Shot does suffer a bit from the same issue, but in a far less severe way. For starters, it’s much rarer for you to be in a situation where you’re stealthing right after a Trick Shot. If autocast is left on, Vital Shot often sabotages deliberate attempts to enter stealth to use Sneak Attack. That you have to turn off Vital Shot’s autocasting just to get it to not sabotage the flip side of itself says a lot about how badly its designed.

Edit:
vvv
That’s an interesting workaround that I’ll have to try, thanks.

(edited by Amante.8109)

Do you like the name Scrapper?(Lore)

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Posted by: Amante.8109

Amante.8109

I like Scrapper a lot as a name. On a lore level, it fits nicely with the Charr origin of the term and its gradual evolution. On an aesthetic level, it’s a cool sounding name that well describes a hammer wielding spec that confidently wades into combat. That it reminds me of the halcyon days of City of Heroes doesn’t hurt, either

Some of the other elite specializations don’t have the best names though. No one seems to like Dragonhunter. As a Thief player I’m not crazy about Daredevil either; it doesn’t really fit the tone of the spec (the first minor is called “Enforcer Training” and that seems like it would have been a boring but more appropriate name).

(edited by Amante.8109)

How will other races treat the Sylvari?

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Posted by: Amante.8109

Amante.8109

World PvP is incompatible with the core design of GW2, so I wouldn’t worry too much.

I’m glad I made my main Sylvari, because it looks like there’ll be some interesting stuff specific to them in the expansion, such as Mordremoth whispering dark things to you ala C’Thun (your heart will explode).

Travelling projectiles breaking stealth

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Amante.8109

It says a lot about how bad Vital Shot is that you have to use it manually to stop its slowness from breaking your stealth. I can’t think of a single other Thief weapon attack that has that problem.

Just saw Scrapper ability effects...why?

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Amante.8109

It does no such thing. First and foremost that this a #3 skill is not material to the discussion. Nothing suggests a number 3 skill must keep a thief in combat. The reason this at number 3 is it has multiple effects that being damage inflicted a condition inflicted , an evade and Immob break and a gap opener which ideal for the number 3 slot.

I didn’t explain my reasoning on Staff #3 as well as I could have when initially writing that post, but that section has received extensive edits since then (including removing the #3 on other weapons bit, which wasn’t the right tack to take). The updated version:

• Staff #3: While the Immobilize break is nice, the skill is clunky and doesn’t flow with the rest of the Staff. It forces you to spend Initiative to get close enough to resume pressure. Initiative is a precious and finite resource, and you shouldn’t have to spend 2/3 of it just to remove one Immobilize and get back in melee. The best solution would be to add an additional effect that only triggers if Staff #3 hits an enemy with the initial attack. This effect would either give a temporary reduction on the cost of Staff #2, or trigger some kind of flip-skill on Staff #3 that lets you re-engage affordably.

I also used staff in Beta and rarely used INI to get back in battle. You have dodges to do that now or if you wished could use vault.

I suspect this is where we’ll have to agree to disagree. Yes, you have other options such as using your dodges or steal to get back in, but these are all precious resources the Thief needs just to barely hang in there. I’d rather not support the trend of us becoming more and more resource starved over time when things are bad enough as they are.

I will concede I’ve been a bit tough on Staff #3 in general. Initially I thought it was meh and could use a redesign, but after some further consideration I realized most of it is fine. I still strongly believe that it should offer a way to inexpensively re-engage after, though.

Thieves need a higher HP Pool

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Amante.8109

Edit: I think that thieves should’nt have access to protection, the thief way to survive is avoid strikes (blind, dodge). Not to survive if catch

Congratulations, you unintentionally stumbled upon the reason Thieves have so many problems. Unfortunately, ArenaNet seems to listen to opinions like yours—which is an extremely common misconception—over those of actual Thief mains. Take it from us… Blind is weaker than it’s ever been and Evades are useful but not enough on their own.

While I would love for Thief to be moved up to a higher HP tier, ArenaNet seems to disagree with the idea philosophically. Even so, they need to be reminded that the two professions Thief shares the lowest HP pool with—Elementalist and Guardian—have tools to mitigate and survive damage in ways that Thief does not. Blocks, Condition Removal, Protection, Stability, et cetera… all things the Thief has little to none of.

I will shout it from the tree tops until ArenaNet finally listens: evades are damage mitigation, not durability. Thieves explode instantly when the evades run dry because they can’t take actual hits in the same way every other profession in the game can.

Other professions get strong passive durability from traits (look at that new Scrapper GM, my god) while Thief is expected to survive solely through active mitigation that runs out quickly. Until they do something to change that paradigm, Thief will continue to have the same problems regardless of how Daredevil turns out.

(edited by Amante.8109)

So angry at the state of thief

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Amante.8109

People need to vote with their wallet, or these MMO developers will never learn. I’ve heard a lot of people say, “if Thief doesn’t end up being good I’ll roll another profession I guess…”, which essentially means ArenaNet is still getting your time and money and thus they have no reason to conclude that they did anything wrong with Thief.

I for one will be quitting the game if Thief isn’t whipped into shape around HoT release… but I’m giving ArenaNet until then. Make it count, guys.

Travelling projectiles breaking stealth

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Amante.8109

Yeah, it’s really frustrating. It was happening to me so much for a while that I thought it was a bug until I came to the same realization as you. Vital Shot (Pistol #1) is the culprit, because it’s about half as fast as it should be (both in the firing animation and how fast the projectile travels). If they adjusted the speed, this problem would be almost entirely solved, as I don’t think I’ve ever had this issue with another Thief weapon or attack.

Druid has been removed?

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Posted by: Amante.8109

Amante.8109

Druid is being designed by the same person behind Scrapper, which—a couple of meh Gyros aside—looks fun, interesting, and borderline overpowered. So yeah, I think Druid will be ok

Allow More Runes?

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Posted by: Amante.8109

Amante.8109

Perplexity shouldn’t be in SPvP, but the rest seem fine. Trapper and Torment in particular would be fun to play around with.

Best Trapper Build: Power or Condi?

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Posted by: Amante.8109

Amante.8109

I’m not an expert on the spec but you definitely need SOME Power. Carrion/Rampager/Sinister are much more well suited than Dire.

Theory crafting double weapon set

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Posted by: Amante.8109

Amante.8109

No one is addicted to Shortbow, in fact many of us have come to despise it. Regardless, it is required to stay both viable and alive.

Staff has a chance of working as an alternative, but it’s not where it needs to be right now.

BWE 3 Daredevil Specialization Changes

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Posted by: Amante.8109

Amante.8109

In the interests of consolidating feedback (and Karl hopefully seeing it), I’m going to copy and paste a post I just made in another thread about the essential changes Daredevil still needs to perform as designed and advertised:

• Replacement Dodges: While they are good on a mechanical level, everything about their animation and usability needs to be rock solid. It is also very important that the game treats them like a basic dodge, both for latency and gameplay reasons (they’re punishable by Confusion right now). For what it’s worth, these changes are almost certainly coming.

• Real Grandmaster Traits: There is no excuse for us not having them. None. The most obvious solution is to design new Grandmaster traits, then expand the first minor so that it adds a Revenant Legend style drop-down list. This drop-down would let you select one of the three Dodges at any time outside of combat or an active SPvP match.

• Escapist’s Absolution: This needs to be merged into the Driven Fortitude minor without any further debate. Assuming the core profession doesn’t receive any buffs to its condition removal before HoT, Daredevil needs EA as a minor for even D/P and Shortbow to remain viable against the power creep of the upcoming HoT meta.

• Staff #3: While the Immobilize break is nice, the skill is clunky and doesn’t flow with the rest of the Staff. It forces you to spend Initiative to get close enough to resume pressure. Initiative is a precious and finite resource, and you shouldn’t have to spend 2/3 of it just to remove one Immobilize and get back in melee. The best solution would be to add an additional effect that only triggers if Staff #3 hits an enemy with the initial attack. This effect would either give a temporary reduction on the cost of Staff #2, or trigger some kind of flip-skill on Staff #3 that lets you re-engage affordably.

• Staff #4: Currently serves no meaningful purpose. There is a widespread consensus that it should leave a line-shaped Dark or Smoke field. If you don’t want the field to pulse Blind, the skill itself could still fire a projectile that Blinds.

• Staff #5: Badly needs an evade for at least the last half or it will be useless in PvP after the first week of HoT no matter how much damage it does. There is no way it should cost 6 Initiative either, as the only weapon skill that does is Infiltrator’s Arrow and Vault is nowhere near that in terms of power or usefulness.

• Channeled Vigor: This feels like it was designed for a profession that doesn’t have the near non-existent durability that defines Thief. Even if that fragility were somehow addressed, 2.25 seconds is not a realistic cast time for a PvP heal. For basis of comparison, there are a scant three other healing skills in the entire game that have a 2+ second cast time. All belong to professions more durable than Thief, and yet those heals still don’t see play. Thieves are so squishy right now that a 1s cast heal isn’t realistic, so what are we going to do with one that takes 2.25s? CV is unique in that it pulses three small heals over its channel, but it’s still too long. Lower the channel to 1.5s at the most.

• Bandit’s Defense: As powerful as a 10s stun break sounded on paper, Thief has such specific needs from its stun break just to survive that this skill’s limitations already meant it might not see play… then it was nerfed to 15s with no further changes. Cooldown aside, the block needs to be longer and to block all hits during its duration, not one. It is also important that BD act like a normal rollover skill instead of automatically triggering, lest pets and other NPCs waste the trigger. It would be nice if the Kick portion had Evade frames for its duration, but that’s not as essential.

• Distracting Daggers: Drowning in needless limitations that obliterate its potential usefulness. The upcoming buff to projectile speed won’t address its deeper problems, such as an arbitrary 1s ICD between throws. At the minimum, it needs the ICD removed or the daggers made unblockable, otherwise the skill can’t fulfill its own purpose. The time limit also seems unnecessary—especially on top of an equip delay—but those limitations could theoretically be worked around if the rest was cleaned up.

• Fist Flurry: Speaking of arbitrary restrictions, it’s not reasonable to require that you land all five hits of a 1.25s melee range channel just to get to the good part of a skill. The smallest change that could make it worthwhile would be having the last hit trigger the flip over to Palm Strike. Funnily enough, it’s Palm Strike—not the Bandit’s Defense knockdown—that should trigger automatically.

• Impairing Daggers: Very close to where it needs to be. The design is fine, but it has some usability issues with the projectile speed and how it travels that cause this skill to fizzle in situations that it shouldn’t. Fix that and it’ll be fine.

• Impact Strike: Like the dodges, it is fairly good mechanically but has animation and usability issues. Tighten up the way the chain flows together (and make the last hit trigger the user’s custom finisher) and it should fulfill its intended purpose.

(edited by Amante.8109)

BWE 3 Daredevil Specialization Changes

in Thief

Posted by: Amante.8109

Amante.8109

Going back to daredevil stuff, I’ve thought about it for awhile, and I am now certain that the Impact Strike combo needs a buff.

There is one major element of Impact Strike that makes it more useful than it initially appears, and I don’t think a lot of people are aware of it: if the final hit of the combo does more damage than the victim has remaining in HP, they are instantly killed without being downed. This has tremendous potential in my opinion.

(edited by Amante.8109)

Just saw Scrapper ability effects...why?

in Thief

Posted by: Amante.8109

Amante.8109

That’s a hard question to answer, because as much as I’d like to see some major redesigns (especially on Staff), it’s unrealistic to expect that at this juncture. A lot of my feedback is also aimed at the core profession itself. No matter how well Daredevil ends up executed, it can only do so much while resting on top of such a shaky foundation. That said, here is what I think are the essential changes needed for Daredevil:

• Replacement Dodges: While they are good on a mechanical level, everything about their animation and usability needs to be rock solid. It is also very important that the game treats them like a basic dodge, both for latency and gameplay reasons (they’re punishable by Confusion right now). For what it’s worth, these changes are almost certainly coming.

• Real Grandmaster Traits: There is no excuse for us not having them. None. The most obvious solution is to design new Grandmaster traits, then expand the first minor so that it adds a Revenant Legend style drop-down list. This drop-down would let you select one of the three Dodges at any time outside of combat or an active SPvP match.

• Escapist’s Absolution: This needs to be merged into the Driven Fortitude minor without any further debate. Assuming the core profession doesn’t receive any buffs to its condition removal before HoT, Daredevil needs EA as a minor for even D/P and Shortbow to remain viable against the power creep of the upcoming HoT meta.

• Staff #3: While the Immobilize break is nice, the skill is clunky and doesn’t flow with the rest of the Staff. It also forces you to spend Initiative to get close enough to resume pressure. Initiative is a precious and finite resource, and you shouldn’t have to spend 2/3 of it just to remove one Immobilize and get back in melee. The best solution would be to add an additional effect that triggers if Staff #3 hits an enemy with the initial attack. This effect would either give a temporary reduction on the cost of Staff #2, or trigger some kind of flip-skill on Staff #3 that lets you re-engage affordably.

• Staff #4: Currently serves no meaningful purpose. There is a widespread consensus that it should leave a line-shaped Dark or Smoke field. If you don’t want the field to pulse Blind, the skill itself could still fire a projectile that Blinds.

• Staff #5: Badly needs an evade for at least the last half or it will be useless in PvP after the first week of HoT no matter how much damage it does. There is no way it should cost 6 Initiative either, as the only weapon skill that does is Infiltrator’s Arrow and Vault is nowhere near that in terms of power or usefulness.

• Channeled Vigor: This feels like it was designed for a profession that doesn’t have the near non-existent durability that defines Thief. Even if that fragility were somehow addressed, 2.25 seconds is not a realistic cast time for a PvP heal. For basis of comparison, there are a scant three other healing skills in the entire game that have a 2+ second cast time. All belong to professions more durable than Thief, and yet those heals still don’t see play. Thieves are so squishy right now that a 1s cast heal isn’t realistic, so what are we going to do with one that takes 2.25s? CV is unique in that it pulses three small heals over its channel, but it’s still too long. Lower the channel to 1.5s at the most.

• Bandit’s Defense: As powerful as a 10s stun break sounded on paper, Thief has such specific needs from its stun break just to survive that this skill’s limitations already meant it might not see play… then it was nerfed to 15s with no further changes. Cooldown aside, the block needs to be longer and to block all hits during its duration, not one. It is also important that BD act like a normal rollover skill instead of automatically triggering, lest pets and other NPCs waste the trigger. It would be nice if the Kick portion had Evade frames for its duration, but that’s not as essential.

• Distracting Daggers: Drowning in needless limitations that obliterate its potential usefulness. The upcoming buff to projectile speed won’t address its deeper problems, such as an arbitrary 1s ICD between throws. At the minimum, it needs the ICD removed or the daggers made unblockable, otherwise the skill can’t fulfill its own purpose. The time limit also seems unnecessary—especially on top of an equip delay—but those limitations could theoretically be worked around if the rest was cleaned up.

• Fist Flurry: Speaking of arbitrary restrictions, it’s not reasonable to require that you land all five hits of a 1.25s melee range channel just to get to the good part of a skill. The smallest change that could make it worthwhile would be having the last hit trigger the flip over to Palm Strike. Funnily enough, it’s Palm Strike—not the Bandit’s Defense knockdown—that should trigger automatically.

• Impairing Daggers: Very close to where it needs to be. The design is fine, but it has some usability issues with the projectile speed and how it travels that cause this skill to fizzle in situations that it shouldn’t. Fix that and it’ll be fine.

• Impact Strike: Like the dodges, it is fairly good mechanically but has animation and usability issues. Tighten up the way the chain flows together (and make the last hit trigger the user’s custom finisher) and it should fulfill its intended purpose.

Did that answer your question?

(edited by Amante.8109)