Ever since the patch happened, I have never run into a D/P thief in WvW. Pre-patch it was all about D/P, it seemed like 90% of the thieves were running it. I’m going to refer to this as the D/P syndrome from now on — it seems that so many people ran it, but likewise were getting sick of it and encountering every other D/P thief as well, that they were looking for any build that would take them the hell away from D/P.
BAM
Patch happened, and it gave everyone a “reason” to drop mainhand daggers(even though D/X still seem great) for something new and refreshing.
@Amonatory, I agree. How did people come about idolizing a few folks? We got plenty of thieves that could give them a run for their money.
It’s obvious, they are on a good pvp team so people think they are absolutely amazing.
That’s the best and most accurate explanation you’ll get.
Not everyone stops and thinks if the build makes sense for them, in their particular situation. I assume Sizer ran that build because it helped him keep up with some of the insanely bunkerish builds that dominate the tournament scene. Normal glass-cannon builds (D/P, S/P) just can’t keep up with these bunkers who also apply consistent pressure via auto-attack and conditions. S/D has quite a lot of sustain. It also gives you the great utility from Trickery both with boon-stripping and on-demand interrupts, which are very useful in team-fights. Sizer also said that S/D is simply his favorite build to play so there’s that to consider too.
But frankly I don’t think this build is really ideal for everyone to run in every situation. S/D is as close as a Thief gets to running a bunker build without ruining his role.
But if you watched the tournament there will still plenty of S/P Thieves running around. It’s still a perfectly viable set, just less forgiving than before and not nearly as strong against the whole bunker-meta as before.
People kitten the power of a build based on 1v1 situations, and S/D performs quite well in that aspect. And until that changes it will remain a popular build, even if other builds suit the Thief’s role better.
I can’t stand sizers gameplay tbh, I run s/d because I’ve mained it for a year or so, it has nothing to do with the “top thieves” (who really aren’t even that amazing).
It’s actually been a gradual change due to nerfs, we used to excel in 1v1 due to the very high amount of spike damage we used to be able to put out combined with what we have now, but as our skills like Cloak and Dagger have gotten nerfed, thieves have started to slowly migrate toward sustain builds like SD or PD focused on killing by means other than bursting. Other classes though I have to say, are better at this fighting style. Little know that the Ranger was actually supposed to be the best sustained class fun fact, anyway yeah we’ve been pushed into other roles other classes can do better. That’s not to say we suck, specs like DP and SD trickery are very good at 1 on 1 but I reiterate, they used to be better.
I’ve been playing Thief, but recently shelved mine because of this. I might look into a better S/D build, though. What would you recommend for a good S/D build? Also, how do people land a full pistol whip? I feel like I can steal, and try to get one off, but it usually results in someone just dodging away, and making all that initiative go to waste. I do have success when using Basilisk venom, but that’s a one trick pony and I can’t do that all the time. I’d love some advice from better thieves.
Do you precast the pistol whip before stealing? If you don’t then it is understandable why it results in an evade. Time it to where you press 3 an as soon as it’s about to whip steal, if you do that then they should eat the whole thing with no evade.
I just find it funny when I get told to hs spam more while I’m playing s/d.
I think I remember fighting you a few times months ago when BP somehow managed to be matched against SoS. I definitely remember your guild tag, and I really enjoyed fighting you guys. Btw, a few BP players did complain about you guys “heartseeker spamming.” I had your back though, and taught them a little something about thief weaponsets and how the thief who killed them using s/d could not have possibly spammed heartseeker.
Haha it’s not the first time I’ve been told to hs spam more. But anyways, people always say BLNT is a thief only guild yet at that time I think we only had 3 thieves. People even say it now and stuff but we only have 4/30 members that are even thieves. Also to the people who said you “guys” hs spam they must be pretty dumb aha back then we only had s/d thieves.
Didn’t you know? The community evolves with the times. When 22222 doesn’t work they’ll say you 333333 and you are SD and it fits so have fun with those whispers
Oh I’ve gotten those whispers many times. But I have a counter to it, I simply say watch my video if you think I spam 3 which I don’t in my videos so they can QQ elsewhere aha.
I just find it funny when I get told to hs spam more while I’m playing s/d.
I think I remember fighting you a few times months ago when BP somehow managed to be matched against SoS. I definitely remember your guild tag, and I really enjoyed fighting you guys. Btw, a few BP players did complain about you guys “heartseeker spamming.” I had your back though, and taught them a little something about thief weaponsets and how the thief who killed them using s/d could not have possibly spammed heartseeker.
Haha it’s not the first time I’ve been told to hs spam more. But anyways, people always say BLNT is a thief only guild yet at that time I think we only had 3 thieves. People even say it now and stuff but we only have 4/30 members that are even thieves. Also to the people who said you “guys” hs spam they must be pretty dumb aha back then we only had s/d thieves.
I’m using 2/4/2/0/6 s/d sb for spvp. I’m digging it for the condi cleanse and good dps along with having mug too. Sadly it probably wouldn’t be too good for d/p.
We’ll you saw me the other day and it didn’t work out well for you ;D. Btw nice try on the 8k backstab gank, almost had me.
Good for you I guess? I don’t remember at all though.
Only time I remember perhaps running into you is in PvP where we farmed some BLNT premade pretty kitten Temple. Although their thief was “Amonatoryy” with two ’y’s, so I’m not sure if its you or not.
btw, I’m curious about what sort of sigils and runes you’re running post patch due to the Lyssa changes?
Nope it was in wvw. But congratulations, you beat our pvp team because we never spvp rofl. You shouldn’t be too proud about beating people who never do spvp aha. My sigils and runes I’ve been testing, atm in spvp I’m trying air and accuracy on s/d and energy and battle on sb. My runes atm are pack still testing some things though so nothing is permanent
The strongest dueling build for a thief right now is that cheesy 10 0 30 0 30 s/d build
Set your armor for good damage toughness etc
You use fury to get the needed crit chance as well
Rofl, the build isn’t cheese. It’s not even good when average players use it, it’s obvious you can’t beat it so you call it cheese. I’ve ran it for about a year now and I can say a lot of people are awful with it and very few are good. Also this build isn’t nearly as good w/o lyssa so please QQ more.
2nd. I remember your warrior, and as I said I wasn’t running that spec, but rather S/D- SB.
3rd this thread is about promoting and sharing a build, and whether you have enough skill to play it or not decides whether or not it would be viable for you yourself. This is why I don’t pick any cheese runes, although I know with rune of nightmare/strength/pirate etc, this build will be over the top borderline unbeatable. So it’s nice of you to voice your opinion; however you can justify anything due to the fact you haven’t dueled me with it, and just to digress. You refuse to duel amonatory as well from what I hear.
Actually, you’re right. You were running S/D X, sorry for the mistake. I withdraw my previous statements.
That said, you do admit that running strength runes (or similar) would make the build stronger.
I also haven’t seen amonatory for a long time, so by your logic, he refuses to duel me as well. Better get on his case. (Honestly curious why you even bring something like this up like its even relevant in the current discussion.)
We’ll you saw me the other day and it didn’t work out well for you ;D. Btw nice try on the 8k backstab gank, almost had me.
The only 2 things I hated about fighting this is the weakness and you camping the Bp intelligently so my sword couldn’t cleave. It’s a good build, but then again I had very little condi cleanse aha.
Well no, he told me his stats and I was kind of crying because they made no sense. Like 2300 armor, same hp as me and lower power and lower crit chance, and lower crit dmg, I was completely lost tbh. Pretty sure he was using the same build as me too.
I have pmed a few people and I am glad they have responded! All in all I am trying to get better at dueling with Thief. I would put me at average or a little above, but id like to get better. Ive talked to Amon a number of times and he has helped me out, and whenever we duel he just scrapes me off the floor ha. So anyway, someone, teach me to thief! (better)
I’m still here if you want some more help. What’s your IGN? The account name doesn’t sound familiar to me aha.
Well I have a scholar set, but its really not that amazing as the 6th slot is kind of pointless after the opening strike. But if its just for the time being go for it.
I seen caed duel in a tourny a couple weeks ago, he is way overhyped I was not impressed at all.
I’d agree he’s over hyped, but hes actually really good and plays thief with the highest skill cap possible.
The tourney he was in had a majority of players using Shadow Arts III as an alternative to Shadow Rejuv. He also lost to a notably good medi guard which is the direct counter to ALMOST all melee thieves, especially those without Shadow Arts.
To play devils advocate, you lost first round in both tourneys and lost to a warrior which isn’t an overly difficult fight given the weapon sets you use. Granted, I was not present at this tourney to see whether or not you ran your normal setup. If not, I’m not really surprised by the outcome.
I ran a build I made on the fly, and lost to a m/s lb warrior. Not a big deal I lost fair and square. But, when I watched caeds fight he literally didn’t do anything to the guardian with either one of his builds he played.
You and I both know that a medi guard is a REALLY tough fight even with Shadow Arts. I wouldn’t expect caed to be able to do anything against Aldix with a 10/30/0/0/30 ogre rune setup. Everything is going to be blocked, dodged, blinded or mitigated whereas Caed is like 200% vulnerable to even sceptor AA damage. That fight is the epitome of an uphill battle.
The same cannot be said about a fighting a warrior for this specific instance.
I rarely have trouble with medi guards, and Caed was using 30 in SA not his other build. I beat the guardian with 10 in SA just for a fun duel, but caed didnt stand a chance.
Yeah s/d still works WvW wise, I actually hit harder since I swapped to new runes. My build is still good but not as good as it used to be by any means.
I seen caed duel in a tourny a couple weeks ago, he is way overhyped I was not impressed at all.
I’d agree he’s over hyped, but hes actually really good and plays thief with the highest skill cap possible.
The tourney he was in had a majority of players using Shadow Arts III as an alternative to Shadow Rejuv. He also lost to a notably good medi guard which is the direct counter to ALMOST all melee thieves, especially those without Shadow Arts.
To play devils advocate, you lost first round in both tourneys and lost to a warrior which isn’t an overly difficult fight given the weapon sets you use. Granted, I was not present at this tourney to see whether or not you ran your normal setup. If not, I’m not really surprised by the outcome.
I ran a build I made on the fly, and lost to a m/s lb warrior. Not a big deal I lost fair and square. But, when I watched caeds fight he literally didn’t do anything to the guardian with either one of his builds he played.
I watched enough. Specifically his most viewed ones. My point stands. People here make him out to be a hero. He isn’t, and he hasn’t played in over a year.
Other people advanced D/D, and even more fleshed out the true power/utility of each skill in the set.
Fresh air is good for kicks, but I create builds that cover me in every duel, every scenerio.
So no, I don’t think I’m misrepresenting him. He runs away in his videos, and rarely if ever does he kill someone on his own with daggers.
First of all, you haven’t watched enough. Otherwise you wouldn’t have claimed, “rarely if ever does he kill someone on his own with daggers.” You also neglected the fact that his dagger build was a Zerg chasing build as I already stated.
We aren’t trying to praise him as a hero, but he should be respected because he somewhat laid the foundation for dagger tank builds to this day. Evolutionists still praise Charles Darwin for his discovery, even though that theory has since been further developed.
Lastly, discrediting fresh air does no service to you or Daphoenix. I mentioned Fresh Air as an alternative to dagger/dagger. That wasn’t the only alternative that Daphoenix recommended. As a matter of fact, in his blog, and in one of his original videos he discussed several variations of builds, as well as giving advice and helping others develop their own builds.
Try as you may to discredit Daphoenix, he was a very smart, and very good player. He knew well what the capabilities of an elementalist were and he mastered all forms of that class almost to perfection.
Honestly, stealth is not a broken mechanic. D/P is a broken mechanic Anet decided to give to thieves. I main thief and D/P is extremely easy to play since you literally can perma stealth away. I bet every single person in here QQing fought a perma stealth easy mode thief, doesn’t mean stealth needs “fixed” because let’s be real, when Anet tries to fix something they completely ruin it.
Builds right, gear is not. I don’t post the build because if people actually can’t guess my traits then they don’t know how to play thief and don’t deserve to know it. The gear I never tell because it’s really the only thing keeping me separate from people who copied my build. Sadly, this build isn’t as good since the patch so it doesn’t matter if people know it anymore.
What you’re saying is very true, but what use would you be to a team if you can’t beat a decent player to cap a point? If you can’t win a 1v1 for a point then the only thing you can do is help your team nuke a player.
Aww you thieves can’t gank people and 2 shot eles as easily anymore in WvW. Boo hoo hoo.
(I actually made a thief recently and the only class that I hate fighting is still thieves. Comon’ brothers, lets not beat up on each other that way.)
kitten much? Anyways, I’m actually scared to play my thief tbh, this nerf I can just tell is going to ruin everything. I will test some things before I quit my thief though.
Honestly, if I can’t play the game as I want too as dps zerker, I’ll just stop playing thief in general. I’ll just main my ele and bend myself over for the condi meta. I absolutely refuse to main a condi cheese build on my thief. GG Anet g..g
Hey Amonatory, I had a feeling our interaction would make it into a video after you downed three of us on Mag yesterday. I’m the thief from [STAB] that you fought in the video at 5:50, the one with no health at the start, and the last one you downed around 8:20. Thanks for uploading that! I thought it was a fun fight and it was cool to see me fighting from the opponent’s perspective. Your skill is commendable. I just wish I didn’t hit IR (2) by mistake instead PW (3) when my trap knocked you down at 7:39…
Aha, yeah that was Serane. He’s a very good ele, and kited me around so much I was raging, but that’s what you get for using 3 soldier armor pieces while dueling an ele xD
I saw/fought one Charr S/D Thief this weekend in WvW, while roaming in a two-man. He was pretty good, didn’t use stealth. Lost to him once in a 2v3 fighting in an unfriendly camp (but stomped his two buddies first), beat him later in a 2v1 when he tried to mess with our Briar catapult (because 2v1).
They are sort of rare. Probably will see more of them post-patch though.
I think you’ll see them less. Lyssa runes are what most s/d thieves use and since that’s getting nerfed most won’t have a viable condi cleanse with s/d, just my thought who knows.
From my experience, there were a lot more S/D thieves in T2 NA than in lower tiers. Especially SoS, before I left (during free transfers) had many S/D thieves.
Lately I noticed a lot more sword thieves in wvw (EU lower tier) but majority of them are S/P.
With 30 in SA, why not? Tons of utility and some people prefer stealthy playstyle. With zerker gear, the dps is okayish.
Honestly, I’ve used this build for a long time now. I’m starting to see a lot of people I’ve dueled starting to use my build, along with people who saw my video and seen me duel. It’s not really an “SoS duel spec” it’s just a build I used awhile back and it’s now becoming meta especially on my own server.
What is this new S/D build that every thief in WvW seems to be running? I keep encountering it and it has high survivability why still dishing out a good amount of damage.
I made a new video of the build you are talking about, along with my old one. Feel free to watch.
I am currently on HoD and I play mainly anywhere from 3-10PM EST. From what I can tell they have 30 points into SA and some points into CS in order to get the quickness on crit skill.
I asked a fellow thief on HoD and they said it was some new S/D dueling build that a thief on SoS created. I don’t know if it’s true but I haven’t seen a build like it and it is very effective in 1v1s.
Stone heart is diamond skin 2.0
As useless and situational as the other.
It will be more frequent to meet a full sentinel thief that an ele with that trait in www…
P.S: nobody not even another thief can kill a thief…
The defense generated by stealth+ mobility has 0 counterplay…only an unreactable burst would work.
All of these are good builds. To your condi question feel free to watch the first fight of my video, where I face 2 thieves one using thieves guild and venom share. Overall thief has decent condi clear but when the patch hits my runes are going to suck.
It’s beyond easy to kill a thief on my ele ( which I’m awful at) just because I main thief. There is a simple solution to the QQ… just play the kitten class and stop crying about “mechanics” get over it. The QQ is real.
Nice to see a skilled S/D P/D Thief.. Keep it up!