Guild Wars 2

Hello Trentilicius,
I recently posted a Vampiric Master build, give it a look:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/PVE-Build-Vampiric-Master
This build is mostly for fun, as I stated, however you can do every content, in my opinion. With a little pratice you’ll be able to control your minions. Bear in mind that in open-world they often are unresponsive and there isn’t much you can do.
In dungeons, or in general in instance, they are much more responsive but still not reliable 100% of the time.

Have fun!

This is my result:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fRAQNArYWn0ISnN2YDW3A/NooXQkq2k5KCVgofMJDA-TFyCABAcCAO+JAglyPh2f4iDBwlq/on+gxUCGA4AY36W3dDM+4jP+4j3u7u7u7ubpAgYaE-w
It’s not the maximum Malice but it’s a more meaningful build. It have less thoughness and vitality (a lot less vitality) however it like 100 Malice less than the other and makes a lot more sense. I use the food buff of +40% Condition Duration which is more useful then having more Malice.
I used to have the combination of Runes of Affliction and Krait but they got nerfed so Undead make more sense now (expecially when you are under Plague form).
Suggestions?
Also: during trash or when (aoe) is needed, Signet of Spite is definitely dropped in favor of Epidemic.

Thank you for your comment Melbarion. I stated several times that mine is a build for fun and I still think it’s fantastic for PvE farming/world boss and similar. I’m able to solo most of the champions.

I don’t understand something of your build:
First of all do you use mainly staff or daggers? Also instead of Quickening Thirst why not Ritual Mastery? Or anything else. It’s awesome and I believe the 25% of speed is helpful during fights because you can avoid some PBAOE by just running, however it’s very situational. If you use it for just walking then I would sacrifice one utility and get Signet of Locust, when you are about to engage a boss or a tough enemy you switch it back to Signet of Spite.

I planned a similar build to test but with Apothecary prefix, for Fractals.

Of course they stack. And also the siphon from minions stack as well. It’s the core of the build I posted a few days ago, I also shot a video to demostrate the Vampiric side of our life.

Bhawb.7408:

Don’t get me wrong, if this build is working for you, and you aren’t massively hurting your team by taking it (and I don’t think you are), then run it. I just think its a bit subpar.

I agree with that: it is subpar. As I said it’s just for fun.

Norjena.5172:

It´s better to play offensive traits with defensive gear.

Really? I always thought it was the contrary.
Since stats from traits are much less then stats form gear, correct me if I’m wrong, I guess it depend if you want to be more tankish or more damage dealer. In my build I want to be a damage dealer with a little tankinesh.

Norjena.5172:

Spoj´s build can support the party (from a necromancers point of view^^) very well.

Stealing/converting more boons, more weakness/chill. Longer Vulnerability duration. Free Utilityskills (blind/condiremove/boonremove/weakness), or even protection/stun breakers and so on.

I don’t agree with you:
The only adds in Spoj’s build, as I’ve read, it’s “Chill of Death”, as i said in my article you can get it in my build as well and double the effectivenes on Focus #5.
Yes, I miss weakness, nothing to do.

Blind is greatly useless on boss (it fade so fast you can’t see it) and much more less effective then a proper Wail of Doom on non-boss or even on a boss after you remove their stack (by keep using Wail of Doom and Doom).

There is no protection/break stun/whatever in a Spoj’s build and anyway in any Berserker build. If you are referring to a Soldier or Power build I think you are comparing two different builds that don’t fit each other.

Norjena.5172:

The problem is, this build does not have support.

No, it doesn’t at all. It’s not the focus of this build.

Gyler.8150:

I did test the vampiric build and it has great potential, except 25 stacks of might increases its damage by… 1.

I’m not sure to understand. If you mean minions don’t get might you are right. Though you still get it and most of the damage came from the Dagger, not from minion. Again I use their damage to mitigate the loss from a pure berserker build but i don’t rely on minion’s damage and it’s not the goal of this build to deal our maximum damage.

Gyler.8150:

The way i dealt with my necromancer was, i made him my bank mule until further fixes to the class make him not detrimental to the group (have other 80’s).

Is that your answer to our problem? “Do not play Necromancer”?
Sorry but this is not an answer.
I play for fun. And I found the other classes boring.

I prefer instead keep asking Arena Net for some changes and/or fixes.

By the way, what do you think, guys, if I send every day a bug report about the broken Minion AI? What about if we all do it? Do you think they will listen to us?

Last time an user sent a cake and it seems it worked. And it’s not a lie.

I understand your point of view. However I don’t know how you deal with the fact that we have no vigor but I oftenly find myself in the situation that I get a facepalm from many mobs, boss, traps, whatever because I run out of endurance.

Also I think a good advantage of a Vampiric build is that you can get lesser hits without the need to go back to heal and stop doing damage.

It would be perfect if I could be able to avoid switching to the axe but this is quite impossible, sometimes you must do it.

Thank you for your comments.

However @Gyler and @Bhawb you are missing the point of this build.
I don’t use minions to deal damage, I use them for more thoughness and for vampiric.

I totally agree that AOE is a problem in this build however, in my opinion, any Necromancer build deals a lot less damage then a single Epidemic.

This build is aimed to situations in which you are the problem solver, when your group is badly organized, they ignore you and you have to save the whole party.

It’s cool to have the perfect group in which you have an Elementalist or a Guardian that keeps spamming heals, aegis and stability but 90% of the time this is not the case and Spoj’s build is not always an option.

The other 10% of the times is with your guild mate, and you can switch to any other build you prefer, you still have the kitten ed but required Berserker equipment.

I’m a fan of Honor of the Waves so I’ll take it as example. Think of the first path with the reworked troll: I was able to keep him busy with my minions sending them one by one and, of course with key positioning with the stairs. The other party members were all squishy and I had to tank him.
It was a victory.

Thank you for your suggestion. Yes, I tried Soldier but I found not really effective but I think it’s because I’m away from sPvP since a lot.

For sPvP it have to change a lot.

I tried the build in sPvP but it’s easily counterable and the sustain is not enough to keep you alive under fire.
For me this build it’s for fun. I hope ArenaNet will fix our minion AI someday.

I found it’s not bad at all in PvE because sustain vampiric is a good option expecially on bosses. I have to try in a pure tankish build.

Tips and Tricks:

• This builds lacks a lot in AOE damage and you may feel this lacking expecially against trash mobs. You can overcome a little with this rotation:
  Warhorn #5 Locust Swarm -> Switch to Axe -> Axe #3 Unholy Feast -> Focus #4 Reaper’s Touch -> Death Shroud -> DS #5 Tainted Shackles -> DS #4 Life Transfer -> optionally explode your Bone Minions.
  The Golem Charge, if placed corretly, can also be a great source of damage.

• Don’t kill all the trash, if they don’t deal much damage: you may want to save some for Spiteful Removal.

• You may want to sacrifice one of the utility for the Signet of the Locust, for example when running in a train in Queensdale or Frostgorge. If you do sacrifice the Shadow Fiend, not the Bone Minions. The Minions’ explosion is much better then the Fiend’s shadowstep, also if you have both of them they deals almost the same amount of damage of the Fiend and the skill have a lower cooldown.

• Use your Golem Charge wisely, it’s your best shot and stun.

• It’s also wise to use and master Warhorn #4 Wail of Doom: while on bosses it’s not great as the Golem’s charge it still really helpful against the other mobs since it hits in a cone, dazing up to 5 targets. You may also want to waste this skill to lower the boss’ Defiance stacks and then place an aimed Death Shroud #3 Doom.

• You may want to use Flesh Wurm instead of another minion (as stated above I would replace the Shadow Fiend ) because it’s higher damage. This minion is very useful for static boss (many world bosses) or bosses that you corner (with Doom or any other skill).

• The Flesh Wurm is also great for key positioning: escaping the AOE of the Giganticus Lupicus or the boss in the Thaumanova Reactor Fractal, etc.

Conclusion.
I talk too much, I know. Forgive me.
I repeat: this is a fun build for PVE, I don’t think it’s a definite guide for a Necromancer but I think it can help many people, expecially newcomer that find a pure Berserker build too much dangerous. I use this builds a lot because it works in almost any dungeons (tested even in Arah), it works in open world, with open world bosses and works well for farming. It require much practice to understand how to use minions and most of all how to unstuck it.

Thank you for reading. Any comment is appreciated. Even flames.

My final words to ArenaNet: how it’s possible the minions are still bugged after more then ONE YEAR? It’s NOT that you lack the capabilities: the enemy NPC never stuck like that, nor the Mesmer’s clone nor the Ranger’s pet. So why?

4/4

Equipment:
As you may notice from my link on www.gw2skills.com I linked Exotic equipment and not Ascended. Who the hell test builds with Ascended equipment? Are you serious? It’s ONE month for just the armor!
Anyway: as I’ve seen in other builds I mix Berserker and Assassin, power is important but your main source of damage came from critical hits. When you reach 45%~50% you don’t really need more Ferocity without wasting precious statistics.

Main: Dagger/Warhorn
Secondary: Axe/Focus

The dagger auto-attack is your main source of damage and it’s fantastic. I don’t understand people that use the Axe as main weapon: it’s DPS is terrible. Terrible. Even Ghastly Claws dps is terrible. Simply don’t.
However ArenaNet hates us so we can’t stay in melee all the time and an Axe is required as secondary weapon. If you watch my video below I switch time to time to the Axe to recover some life and then I engage the combat again in melee. I like the sinergy with the focus so I use it. Focus #4 Reaper’s Touch is a good source of Vulnerability and Regen while Spinal Shiver is really helpful against some bosses to strip some nasty boons. Think about the Karka: how I love strip their Stability…

Oh! And always keep up Warhorn #5 Locust Swarm! It deals a lot of damage!

Sigils
I use Sigil of Air on the Dagger, Bloodlust on Warhorn, Sigil of Fire on the Axe and Frailty on the Focus.
The Air Sigil is still awesome and it’s a cheap alternative to the Sigil of Force, Bloodlust on Warhorn it’s pretty mandatory.
On the other hand I use the Axe only for AOE damage or some critical situation so I like Sigil of Fire and the sinergy with Frailty.

Runes
I don’t really know. I’m still testing. Any suggestion is really welcome.

Food
As above I’m still testing and I didn’t find any food that suits me.
The Omnomberry Pie or Omnomberry Ghost make a lot of sense in this build, but I haven’t tested them and they are pretty expensive.
Any suggestion is welcome here as well.

Youtube video

I recored this video to quickly show the amount of heal you receive with this build and still the decent damage you deal.
I mismatched a trait (I had no Vampiric Precision active, I forgot somehow) and I made many mistakes but it’s just to show the effectiveness of the build.
When I have time I’ll record a video soloing some champions.

I marked two salient moments: at 51s and at 2m06s.

3/4

Spite
III – Spiteful Removal is an awesome trait in PvE. To use it effectively I often leave some trash mob unharmed until I need it. This trait works very well in combo with Parasitic Bond, the build gives you a bit of healing power (with Death into Life and the points in Blood Magic) making this two traits a good source of healing and condition removal.
In my build I don’t use any Condition Removal and I found this trait enough in most cases.

IX – Training of the Master – Don’t underestimate this trait: minions deals quite good damage.
However if you want to be less depended of minions you may sacrifice 2 points from Death Magic, drop Death Nova and Training of the Master in favor of Axe Training and maybe Close to Death.

Death Magic
Armored Shroud – is useless: you rarely stay in Death Shroud. Sometimes you pop in Death Shroud to prevent some damage or to deal AOE damage with Life Transfer but… meh.
III – Minion Master is mandatory: while with the next trait minions are not squishy at all they however die easily expecially in big aoe, you have to respawn them oftenly. 90% of the time you want them all up but sometime you may want them to spawn one by one, usually in strange situation (bosses can be kited with minions but they tend to eat them quickly, so you may want to evoke one by one).
Soul Comprehension – As far as I know it works also when your minions die or you kill your Bone Minions by will.
X – Flesh of the Master This awesome trait gives you that bit of toughness that, in addition to the poins in Death Magic, makes you more resistant. You are not going to tank as a Guardian but believe me: you are going to survive much more then before.
Note: it works with the Jagged Horrors spawned from Death Nova. I can confirm you can have up to three Jagged Horrors with this trait.
Deadly Strength – The more Minions you have the more thoughness you have, the more power you have. Not a life changing trait but still good.
XI – Death Nova Awesome trait: your minions die? AOE Damage and Poison Field on the ground. You get a Jagged Horror that it’s more damage, more toughness and more vampiric.
This trait works when you manually sacrifice your Bone Minion making those two bombs a good source of damage every 16s (if you traited Minion Master).

Blood Magic
Ah! The core of this build.
Full of Life – It’s pretty explanatory. If only they would lower the threshold to 75% this trait would be awesome.
V – Vampiric Precision I did several test between this and II – Bloodthirst: while the second sound better because gives you more healing since you have at least 6 minions in real life you don’t have them all the time. I usually explode the Bone Minions or I have the Shadow Fiend dead due to it’s suicidal instinct or the Flesh Wurm has been placed in a wrong location… you name it. I prefer having this to be less dependent to Minions’ vampiric. It seems contradictory with this build but this trait saved my life several times when I had all the minions down due to an aoe. This trait works well with channelling skill, or, to be more precise, a lot better with Dagger #2 Life Siphon or Axe #2 Ghastly Claws.
Vampiric – Pretty self explanatory.
VII – Vampiric Master – It works with minions, it work with Minions’ skills. Watch my video at the end of this post.

2/4

Warning: Wall of Text incoming!

Hello forum,
I recentely came back to play Guild Wars after an absence of several months. I was interested in the latest changes in the game that nerfed the Berserkers and introduced the new traits.
In my opinion both are great failures. The new traits in the Necromancers are subpar, useless or too far from the useful trait lines to be considered and the Zerks are requested more then before.
But please: this is not a post of rant, we may discuss about these problems in another post, if you like.

My actual build is really simple and is born as a troll/fun build but the more I used the more I found it working on most situations, even more then other classic berserker build.
It’s a purely PvE, open-world, definitely not a sPvP nor WvW build.
Since I’m pratically forced to use a Berserker build after one year of struggle I decided to build a berserker equipment and try a build. I used the great Spoj’s build but I found it too difficult to use.

First of all there are a few things you should know and if read “Minion Master” in the post subject and you read so far then you have the courage to continue. We all know the minion’s AI is terrible and its shameful that ArenaNet did not fix it after one year.
However:

• The more I use them the more I found something incredible that they works almost perfectly in Dungeon. The answer to commands, they attack immediately and with practice it’s possible to direct them at your will.
• In open world they sucks but not everywhere: it seems some part of maps make them works.
• Moving, changing weapon, use their skills, moving again, seems to unstuck them.

I found Spoj’s build dealing nice damage but have no survability. I came up to the conclusion that we cannot reach the damage of a Warrior or any other boring class, so maximixing our damage is useless, if you keep dying, if you have to move away to heal or you switch to the Axe which have a terrible DPS (yes, I still use the axe anyway, there is no way to avoid it).
I wanted, instead, more survability but still deal good damage so I dediced to sacrifice some of it for more heals.

I don’t know you guys how you test your builds but I use the Invulnerable Golem in the Heart of the Mists.
I do this way: I clock the time passed when I start dealing him damage util I “kill” it (since it reset his life when it reaches 0) at least 5 times. I use 5 “loops” because otherwise a “burst” build may sounds too powerful instead of an “attrition” one and it’s not always the case (like a boss which often require more time).
Friend warriors and thief prove me that the average of 20s is the time to beat for awesome damage, around 22s is the time for good damage, up to 25s for still-good-but-normal-well-at-least-is-fine damage and above 25s trash your build.

My test gave me an average of 22s for Spoj’s build: and an average of 24s with mine. A big difference? It’s up to you decide if it’s worth.

Said so, here the build.

gw2skills.com link

Preface
First of all you may notice the absence of good trait that gives you damage like Close to Death or Target the Weak. The reasons behind them are simple: you don’t really need it because, as I said, I’m sacrifing some damage for survavibility and they really don’t give you that damage.

In-Depth Discussion
4/0/6/4/0

1/4

Thank you for your reply. I guess right now there is no way to retreive those data except to map by myself those missing buff.
I hope they are only related to the common prefixes, like Rabid for the example above about the Tome and so on for the others.

Hello,
I was playing with the API because I’m going to code a tool (in Qt/C++) to help the crafting. I realize there are plenty of other working tools but this is not the point.

I decided to create a database (sqlite) to hold all the information gathered from the various API endpoints and I stumbled in a problem.

I converted the item_id for the Tome of the Rubicon from it’s game code (from the wiki) and it is 37007. If I retreive the item detail from the api https://api.guildwars2.com/v1/item_details.json?item_id=37007 I have the details.

The attributes from these info are 24 Malice, 17 Precision, 16 Toughness which seems to be wrong. If we add the values from the ones in the description we get the proper values.
The missing values, however, are not in the description but in that “buff” properties that I never seen in other items (I get few items right now just for test).

That property give a strange buff with a skill of ID 15741.
Following the wiki page I created a game link for this skill: [&B309AAA=] that, wrote in the game, give a skill without name that gives the missing properties.

So the tome is composed of the values from this skill (which, I guess, it’s always active) and the values give by the item itself.

Now my question is: for the beard of Merlin… why??
This is quite a big problem for me: how many other items use these passive skills instead of the proper values from the “attributes” array?

I fear there are many items that share this problem (I didn’t test but I bet every ascended item have this behavirou) but there is no API that let us discover the skill properties.
Should I get the values in-game everytime I discover a “buff” section like this?

Thank you for the help.

Thank you for your answer.

spoj.9672:

Arcades Saboth.5139:

Congratulation for the great video.
I have a question but first of all let me say I don’t play Guild Wars 2 since a few months so I’m little behind of changes.
In the whole phase 1 I didn’t see a single Risen Grub. Where are they? Just one of it spawn at the end of phase 1, beginning of phase 2.
Last time I did Lupicus (I think before december) the Risen Grubs spawned even near clones, pet and most of all to jagged horrors.
How about? Is there something I don’t understand? Did they changed the behaviour of the Risen Grubs?

You can dodge them when his hand is raised up above his head. Pug groups generally dont bother with this though. The last grub on phase switch cannot be dodged though.

Doding avoid the grub to spawn?

Congratulation for the great video.
I have a question but first of all let me say I don’t play Guild Wars 2 since a few months so I’m little behind of changes.
In the whole phase 1 I didn’t see a single Risen Grub. Where are they? Just one of it spawn at the end of phase 1, beginning of phase 2.
Last time I did Lupicus (I think before december) the Risen Grubs spawned even near clones, pet and most of all to jagged horrors.
How about? Is there something I don’t understand? Did they changed the behaviour of the Risen Grubs?

alanis.6094:

Arcades Saboth.5139:

I understand it’s not difficult but still I can’t see any difference from Fear alone and Fear with another conditions. I saw the same damage.

Do you have Terror as one of your traits?

Of course I have Terror, I see the damage from Fear. I don’t see any difference from Fear alone and Fear with another Condition.
I will record a movie to show you.

EDIT: My apologies. It works. I tested it again and I can confirm my damage is increased.

I understand it’s not difficult but still I can’t see any difference from Fear alone and Fear with another conditions. I saw the same damage.

Nuhj.8372:

Use Staff 5 or DS 3, check if Fear is the only condition on the golem (Barbed Precision sucks), wait for damage tick. Apply condition with Staff 5, Dagger 4 or something similar that does not fill your screen with bleed ticks, rinse and repeat. You can turn your back to the mob when using DS 3 so you won’t start autoattacking it.

1279 Condtion damage, 746 Terror without another condition, 1120 with another condition applied for both Fears

Did it, three times. No buff. I always hit for about 9kittenage from fear.
My fear tick just once.
Can you capture a video? I can capture one myself to prove there is no buff.

Fynd.4890:

I edited my post to reflect the 4.5*level coefficient for Terror base damage and to Arcades Sabboth, the +50% damage works in both PvE and the mists/sPvP. I tested in all 3 areas last night.

Can you tell me how to reproduce please?
In my tests I saw no difference from Fear with no condition onto the target and Fear with another condition applied.

Nuhj.8372:

Arcades Saboth.5139:

The trait is bugged and there is no buff. This is the damage I always had with Terror.

Are you sure your Staff 5 did not crit? I can not replicate what you described, Staff 5 and 3+5 are working just fine for me with Terror.

Critics don’t apply to conditions. If the 50% buff is real Staff #3 apply Chill and Poison so hitting again with Staff #5 would result in a higher damage from Fear (due to new patch, from just Staff #5 with no other condition on target. You can use Death Shroud #3 if you wish). It is not, in my tests. Can you confirm?

The base damage can still be 362, I don’t know, I was reporting what’s wrote on the Wiki
Which say 122 base damage.
I agree those numbers may not be true since I saw about 950 damage with about 1000 Malice. I have to test it deeply since now we have this nice 50% damage buff: I was not sure if the golem had another condition, if you say it’s about 650 damage with 1000 Malice then my 950+ damage is consistent with the 50% damage bonus.

EDIT: Tested.
I have 944 Malice, no Might. The test is simple: hit a golem with Staff #5, look for the damage, then hit for Staff #3 and then Staff #5. Any other condition is fine however.
I always inflict 962 damage, both with just Fear or any other condition on the target.
Final Consideration: I was cheering for Arena Net for this buff but instead they disappointed me. The trait is bugged and there is no buff. This is the damage I always had with Terror.

Fynd.4890:

Order of operations :

Base damage for terror is:

• 2 + (level * 1.5) = 362 @ 80
• it is not (2 + level) * 1.5 = 123 @ 80

Infact: 80 *1.5 = 120 + 2 = 122.
362 would be 80 * 4 + 2.
Where did you get 362?

Nuhj.8372:

It is 362 base damage plus 30% Malice. As with all other condition damage ticks it will trigger every 1 sec after being applied.

It’s 2 + level * 1.5 + 0.3 Malice which means 122 base damage.
Source

As I’ve state elsewhere I think this is fine, now even better. Also I think they should give us the opportunity to increase our Fear to at least 2 seconds without sacrifice an entire build (eg. Master of Terror should give 100% or our fears should last at least 1.75s)

I think finally something is move one. Finally Gluttony is fixed and that trait is one our best source of life force building for condition based builds. Terror is awesome, I always used it and now it’s even better. In my opinion Necro should be able to have 2s of fear without sacrifice everything (like Master of Terror should give 100% more Fear duration or our Fears should last at least 1.75s).
I didn’t tested deeply but I feel the Flesh Golem is a lot more responsive. Still unreliable but I saw it follow my target until death, I never seen it attack someone who is very far from me.

In my opinion the Necromancer development is in the right direction, it still need some adjustments but it’s in the right way.
I can’t wait for the Death Shroud UI change and hope for a rework.

About the downed abilities I don’t agree completely. Maybe just the fear should be convertedd to AOE, the other abilities are fine.

P.S.:

To top it off, quickening thirst is bugged and it does give the entire 25% bonus to mainhand dagger.

Only the main bonus apply and it does not stack with other speed bonus (as anything else):
Quickening Thirst Wiki Page

Happened yesterday. First time in 3 months of play.

The karma will heavily revenge for this.

(The jagged horrors are still useless, I never seen them hit not even once, until today. The exception that confirm the rule).

Donedusted.9846:

Oh, so if the target has Aegis up then it will only corrupt Aegis? Erk. That’s really not great. So I would have to use Well or focus 5 first, then Corrupt Boon?

I can’t say what I told you is right or not. When I use Corrupt Boon I still get the “Blocked” faceroll message on warriors/guardians and they don’t get their boon corrupted.

Anyway a simple autoattack is fine before shoot Corrupt Boon.

Hello,
the skill actually have an post-cast delay which prevent you from using in the middle of other skills. This means you can block it, with dodge or other things.
Also you require LOS while using it, not only it’s a LOS but it’s more a cone. I think is the same for the scepter: you must face your target to use it.
And anyway I’m not sure if the patch note of 22 october is correct: I fear that if you have aegis and other boons you still convert it (to burning) but not the other boons. You still have to remove aegis then use this skill.

@Kardiamon
You know, I wasn’t really sure about the 5 seconds. When you are in the middle of battle even 2 secons seems really long. I was exagerating but today I faces an engineer and an elementalist. I was not exagerating at all: knock-back/down is at least 3 seconds, and in few occasion I was down for full 5 seconds.
I was counting in my mind so it may be not accurate. But 3 seconds is for sure.

Kardiamond.6952:

@Arcades

Never saw a 5 second knockback? Who does that?

Engi/Elem main knockback also knock them to the ground. And most KB only last about 2 sec.

Our fear would be a problem for most people if it lasted 2 sec untraited. we have more then one source of fear.

People hate losing the control of their char, just like you hate being used like a ping pong ball by Ele/Engi. That’s why I would prefer a lower cooldown over a longer CC.

People would cry too much about it. Like they cried about Warlock fear in WoW.

I was exagerating, too few for being sarcast. Anyway I feel the knockdowns are much better the fear.

It’s an entire line of trait: Death Magic. For me it’s 1/3. Do you want to discuss the right number?
Exageration? Have you see the sticky post above about our problems?
I think it’s not fun when I spec in Death Magic but I can’t use minions.
I think it’s not good condition damage is Curse Trait line forcing me to use critical strike.
I can’t see the reason why the Critical Damage is on the Soul Reaping tree forcing me to use the Death Shroud.
I can continue forever.

I don’t get your point anyway. The other classes have problems? So? They have the right to complain exactly as we are doing right now.

We do not demand fix prior to anyone, we do not demand to get buffed to overpower, we do not demand the game should concentrate with us.
We demand our class have to work and be fun.

I don’t get it: do you really think that our fear may really be a problem for anyone?
Please: in every match is a much an engineer/elementalist whatsoever that treat you like a ping-pong ball knocking you around the battlefield with little effort and the security to keep you down since we lack any reliable form of stability.

When a normal knock-back is 5s long how can it be kitten possible that our fear is just 1s?

Druitt.7629:

What happens if you clear your target, does it return to you? What if you change your target but do not attack? (You’re tabbing through all enemies, you’re checking the health/conditions/buffs of enemies, etc. It would send your minion on wild goose chases.)

You are partially right. What I said is exagerated and you pointed right: switching target should have a cooldown. A very very small cooldown, like 0.5s.
That would need testing, and tweaking. But the minions now simply do nothing so a fix is mandatory, a tweak may follow later. In PvP it’s mandatory they follow orders, otherwise they are simply useless and without minion our profession is half unusable (maybe a third, but still unusable).

Druitt.7629:

So it seems to me that what your minion does when you switch targets (at least in PvE) is something of a design call. It could be legitimate to say that the minion continues to attack any target it begins to attack and only stops when that target is dead or out of leashing range.

I don’t think so and I hope it’s not. Mesmer’s Illusion are like this but mostly because you can pop up them continuously. Our minions are different since you can’t create them in the middle of fight, you have to precast them, and they must follow your order. If you get the wrong target they must follow.

Anyway I partially disagree with you: yes we are “broken” with the meaning that a lot of skills and traits doesn’t work (broken in the programming side), many of those are unknown if they work or simply have so little advantage that are negligible (see Gluttony, but as I said in a my previous post it must be bugged), we lack diversity of builds (broken in design) meaning traits/effects are too sparse on the lines, we lack stability and useful buff (or they are too short).
So yes, we are broken. Completely useless? No way! Fun to play? Hell yeah! Competitive? I don’t think so.

@Druitt
In PvP it’s mandatory to have reliable pets. Who care of the aggro?
But it’s important they follow you. Off-links are a technique widely used in many games (I didn’t tested but I know Borderlands 2 have a sophisticated technique for dynamic off-links, hell even I was able to create off-links for my software and I’m a junior developer). I don’t have details on the path finding system of this game however off-links are a solution but it may be not possible on the actual system. If offlinks cannot be done then the teleport of minions is an ugly workaround but give reliability to them. I thinks this is an important matter but first of all the responsiveness of the minion is a priority. If I switch target they must change target immediately, no matter what, no matter if I keep switch target 100 times per second.

@Druitt
I share your same thoughts. It’s not just a “broken AI” because the AI in truth really works: minion can attack, can get decision, can change target, can avoid obstacles and so on. They just get this decision too quickly or too late (mostly this case: the target or the master is dead before the AI cycle pick an option from it’s states).
I also think, and fear, another problem: the AI cycle is kitten slow and too heavy for the server so they have a tick of several milliseconds, or even worse they have a separate queue for AI jobs. Technically is much better but that would enqueue too many actions which overflow the AI system.
These are speculations too, as developer I may think such system because it’s more efficient talking about CPU cycles. But also it’s also incredibly bad for gameplay purpose (the responsiveness of the minons).

Also I’ve notice a great, great flaw in the system and I don’t think this is easily patchable: any AI controllet minion is not capable of off-links between paths or the path system (I think they use a standard navigation mesh) do not support at all off-links. For simplicity: the minions can’t jump off a cliff. For PVE is not a great deal but for PVP is a great problem since you can’t jump and try to save your self without letting your minion behind.
In my opinion if off-links cannot be done they could simply reduce the teleport time and distance when you are too far away from your minion. You may travel the whole Battle of Khylo map sometimes before a minion come back at your side.

digiowl.9620:

Well the fix in the moa case was to drop us out of DS on application. Trying to do that on the runes would really be a case of throwing the baby out with the bath water…

I’m not sure to understand the meaning of that but anyway I prefer to get out my Death Shroud and have the cooldown but have the correct activation of effect (become mist for Vampirism or Ice for the other runes) then to be stuck in Death Shroud and have my Life Pool depleted.

Yes, this is a bad sign how they handled this fix: they added an exception to the Moa skill instead of handling correctly our Death Shroud.

anonim.7413:

Arcades Saboth.5139:

Hi anonim, I had your same issues. Do you use runes which give you transformation like Vampirism which transform you in mists? If so remove it. They proc at 90% life force as it would be health and transform you in mist but you cannot see it (since the UI in Death Shroud is designed to confuse you).
For some strange reason when you swap out of DS your skill bar is empty too.

Ok, will test it, ty.
But… in fact it IS a Bug, so plz fix =)

One more note:
you can remove just the 6th rune and use the other 5. It is just the transformation which is bugged. It was the same for the Moa on us, now that has been fixed but any other transformation while on Death Shroud are left bugged.

Hi anonim, I had your same issues. Do you use runes which give you transformation like Vampirism which transform you in mists? If so remove it. They proc at 90% life force as it would be health and transform you in mist but you cannot see it (since the UI in Death Shroud is designed to confuse you).
For some strange reason when you swap out of DS your skill bar is empty too.

Kiriakulos.1690:

(NB0072) Soul reaping: Gluttony: Does not work at all.
Gluttony works, it’s just completely negligible.

Fynd.4890:

• Gluttony should be additive, not multiplicative – the bug report entry should remain.

I made some tests: The proof that Gluttony doesn’t work
I think we have a confirmation, so the bug entry must remain.
But we still don’t know if it’s additive or multiplicative.

Hello,
it’s a while I’m wondering about Gluttony. That trait is for sure one of our best adept trait if not the best at all. But it doesn’t work.
Does it?

At the beginning I though it doesn’t work. Then I realized that the buff may be multiplicative instead of additive.

What does it mean?
If the Staff #1 hit for 3% Life Force with additive Gluttony it would hit for 8%.
If the Staff #1 hit for 3% Life Force with multiplicative Gluttony it would hit for 3 + 3 * 0.015 = 3.15% in total.
Whoa! 3.15% per hit?
I know they really hate us but I don’t realize why.

Then I thought: is it possible that the trait is not bugged but it’s so incredibly useless? Even if they hate us, because now I’m really thinking they do, would they create such a useless trait?

So I tested in the mist. The test is simple: hit a golem 20 times, use a steady weapon, do not use minions nor other skills, also don’t let the golem or any other creature nearby die.
Hitting the golem 20 times would give you 60% Life Force. If Gluttony is multiplicative and work 60% + 5% is 63% (60 * 1.05 = 63).

And the result: Gluttony is bugged. 20 hits give you 60%. No more.

I hope this post may clear the vision to who think Gluttony works but it’s value is just negligible. Even if it’s a minor trait there is NO reason it must be useless.
Useless, not underpowered or a minor trait with a negligible value: useless.
Even if it’s a minor trait it cannot be multiplicative. Additive. Period.

Some people may state that it’s too powerful because of Staff #1 but I think this is wrong since this is the slowest auto-attack of the game. Gluttony would help but not make the staff auto-attack much more attractive.

I hoped to be of any help.

P.S.
I created many other characters (yes I admit: I rerolled a mesmer) but in the end, no matter what, I get my necro and try new builds and other stuff. I just like it. More then anything.

Unpredictability.4086:

Arcades Saboth.5139:

Ruufio.1496:

Tried the Terror trait after the patch hoping for ninja buff. Still did 76 damage LOL.

Fear is a condition, if you run condition it would deal about 800~900 damage (talking about jewels on xPvP). Of course with 0 condition damage it doesn’t deal much damage. Anyway as far as I know it would deal at least 400 damage, with 0 condition damage.

In my opinion Terror IS a good trait, the problem is our Fears are a joke.

That 800-900 is if you put condition damage into everything and get a critical hit. About 400 to 650 is more realistic.

Fear is a condition. Conditions don’t critical hit. Condition ignore toughness, so this is direct damage (almost: it’s mitigated by few things like Guardian’s I-don’t-know-what which decrease by 10% the damage received). Anyway 800 damage was in my wettest dreams: I tested it in the mist and review the formula. Fear deals level * 1.5 + 15% of your condition damage, this means it’s about sixty damage¹ with 200 Condition Damage (for having Terror you have 20 points in Curse). With about 1k Condition Damage you deal about 280 damage.
This is strange however, I killed many people with Fear when their health was low but not that low, I’m sure I saw that number but I must be drunk.

So yes, Terror isn’t so great however I still believe it’s our Fear that is a Joke then the trait itself.

¹: for some reason I can’t write “sixty” in numbers follow by “damage” because they are transmuted in mice by the forum filter.

Ruufio.1496:

Tried the Terror trait after the patch hoping for ninja buff. Still did 76 damage LOL.

Fear is a condition, if you run condition it would deal about 800~900 damage (talking about jewels on xPvP). Of course with 0 condition damage it doesn’t deal much damage. Anyway as far as I know it would deal at least 400 damage, with 0 condition damage.

In my opinion Terror IS a good trait, the problem is our Fears are a joke.

Just tested in the Mists. It works: just the size of the target is decreased but the mark on the ground is big, is triggered correctly and apply the correct effects.

The 20 second fear is real. It’s an bug whenever two necromancers (and as far as I know can be both on the same side, if on any PvP) close to each other trigger Reaper’s Protection traits (by anyone). That trait would make an AoE fear which bounce several times retriggering Reaper’s Protection multiple times ignoring the cooldown until the fear cap (which is 20s, at least this is my theory). The bug should be fixed but well… we are not famous to have many bug fixed.
The other fear is a Thief using his profession skill Steal on any necromancer. When they do it they have a 3 seconds fear.
Or a Warrior with Fear me (up to 3s according to Wiki), Terrifyng Owl of Ranger’s Pet (2 secs), a Stability corrupted by Corrupt Boon or a fear reflected by Mesmer’s trait Mirror of Anguish.

Why we have the less powerful fear in the game?
Look up our whole forum section.

It MUST be additive! 5% multiplicative is simply useless!

Tested: if you trait for Terror and have 1.400 condition damage (a few runes and Rabid or any other jewels, talking about sPvP) it does about 800-900 damage.
It is not useless. It’s useless indirectly: since if you get 6 runes of Necromancer, all the trais for fear, your fear is LESS then 2s: don’t get fooled, it’s less, like 1.99 but not 2. Due to the fact fear is a condition it ticks and I never seen it ticks more then ONE single tick. If we could have a 2s, even traited, than it would be about 1.800 damage and I think it would be wonderful.
But it’s not. Trait and runes can’t give you more then one tick.
I didn’t test with full Spite line for the +30% condition duration but it’s quite a joke: For have a useful fear you must trait 30/20 but then going conditions. Totally unsynergic.

I was wondering: what if Gluttony is multiplicative instead of additive?
This mean: if the Staff auto-attack regenerate 3% Life Force if Glutty is additive it should generate 8% and it would be evident (I tested: it does not).
If Gluttony is multiplicative, instead, it would generate 5% more of the original 3%, this mean a wonderful 3.15% instead of 3% (3 + 3 * 0.05 = 3.15).
Since every other minor trait we have are insignificant (they are “Just” 5 points! Why would they be powerful?) I think this is possible.
But I still think it just doesn’t work, with steady weapons I noticed no change though it must be so small it’s impossible to notice. I also HOPE Gluttony doesn’t work at all instead of being multiplicative because if I’m right… well.. your conclusions.