Guild Wars 2

Combos give the thief awesome team support.

The blast AoE’s from Cluster Bomb are so helpful to a team.

MightyMe.1356:

Anet balance team, as a Thief pvp player,relying on stealth,I’m fine with all the nerf to our burst,honestly.
But there’s one thing that really hampers my sustainability,and that’s the 4s revealed.
It takes away the fluidity of the d/d stealth builds, and it’s such aong duration where I’m utterly defenseless (due to my defense trait line being revolved around stealth), that I’m AFRAID to backstab.
I literally feel afraid of that revealed…it shouldn’t be like that.
So my only request os that younrevert revealed back to 3s in pvp, just like in wvw.
3s revealed is just right, the enemy has enough time to catch me, and I don’t feel like I’m running around screaming “I’m right here! Kill me! Please!”

I thought this died two months ago. o.O

Harrier.9380:

I had Lac.Strike crit for 9k once.

Just saying.

The skill doesn’t have a high enough coefficient to hit that hard, unless you went full glass against another very glassy build, realistically speaking.

XII.9401:

Enmity.3428:

EoNxBoNx.9213:

LOL.

Firstly the sword 2 cures ONE condition. It being a weapon skill shouldn’t matter. Yeah it has no cool down, and if you spam IS, you just go back and fourth CCing a player with immob. The only stability a thief can get is by stealing through boons, using steal on a mesmer, or lyssa runes. I fail to see the problem here. They just nerfed it, and you want it nerfed harder?

Seriously, I don’t understand these kinds of people.

Oh, and secondly thief teleports are crucial to their survival. For example, the teleport straight into clock if you were caught by a warriors hundred blades combo. Or just teleport to the platform right in front of the windows of clock.

You clearly don’t play a thief, and are only here to complain.

Some people just don’t know how bad it is for Thieves in this game.

Infiltrator’s Strike/Shadow Return: Cures only one condition. It should cure at least three in my opinion. Stun, Immobilize, Cripple or Daze completely negated by a weapon skill. I don’t see the benefit in that at all. (Mercifully we don’t have to waste a valuable Utility slot for this like other classes would have to.) And yeah so what, it has no cool-down, what good is that? Okay I suppose it could be spammed… but for what purpose though? Just to go back and forth keeping the enemy Immobilized? To completely avoid all damage? That’s not handy at all. In fact, it’s a rubbish skill to have.

Yeah, teleports are crucial to our survival because the invisibility (sorry, I mean Stealth) we have is in no way a strong mechanic at all. In fact, I’d go so far as to describe it as near useless. So we need teleports too. To cap it all off, S/D Thieves have to suffer with probably the worst skill in the game – the Flanking Strike/Larcenous Strike chain. I don’t think I’ve ever gotten any kills out of using this one. Pfff.

Honestly, poor Thieves. When I’m playing mine I don’t know how I manage to kill anyone at all.

You have some of the best condition removal in the game..

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow's_Embrace

kitten ..wish I had that weak kitten ability!

Keep it coming. Your only bumping this thread up and attracting more attention with the ‘valid’ replies.

Except that SE sucks with Sword? In fact, the entire trait line is horrible with sword, and the entire trait line tends to be really bad in tPvP overall anyways because you can’t cap points while stealthed.

On the other hand, SReturn is one of our only condi removers that the sword has; break the condi removal and you practically break the weaponset. Shadow Step has a long cool down and is somewhat difficult to use as a condi remover. Our healing skills only remove a very few select types of condis. And that’s it. That’s all we have.

It’s like me saying that turret engis shouldn’t complain about condi removal because they have CF 409. Which is ridiculous, you can’t use that trait with a turret build. On the other hand, the thief really can’t use an entire weaponset without the condi removal on SReturn.

So no, it does not need a nerf.

Stealth.9324:

Blackhat.4016:

Stealth.9324:

Can I please have an opinion on Low health Disadvantage on Bunker Eles? Low Hp=> Vulnerable to Condition Dams Spam ex: HGH Engine. I emphasize on Spamming Conditions Thanks.

Bunker eles usually don’t have a lot of problems against condition builds. They have low HP but the amount of condition removal makes up for that (especially if you use S/D). The last nerf to eles helped condition builds a little bit though.

While I agree with you that Eles has a good amount of condition removal,but against the class that spam conditions every second,aka Engine, once u use up all yours options, you are very vulnerable to Conditions, like 3 mins after the fight starts.

Also, vitality is better at total damage reduction than toughness is, so you should at least use some degree of vitality to increase your survivability if you’re gonna run bunker ele, or, for that matter, any other class.

Of course, you don’t want to go too far over the top, otherwise your healing will have its effectiveness heavily removed.

Anyhow,

@the rest: I decided that it was just an extremely strong elite in 1v1 duels, and about where it should be in proper tPvP, so this thread can be locked. I would like to say that I am somewhat disappointed in a lot of the responses to this thread, as rather than trying to be constructive or helpful they seem to be meant more towards flaming me as opposed to anything else. I typically welcome other players from other communities fairly readily to the Thief forum, and while I understand that it can be frustrating to have something called “OP”, I did not instantaneously come here to ask “NERFNERFNERF” (unlike other profs have done to thieves), I just came here to ask for a more useful perspective on the elite, and I maintained a very open-minded view throughout my posts. A few of you, earlier in the thread, were quite helpful and generally friendly, but I’m disappointed that the rest of you decided to act so immaturely.

~Arctu

JoshuaRAWR.4653:

No offense intended OP, i don’t mean to be an kitten, but i can’t think of another way in which to say how stupid you are in saying that the Supply crate is OP.

Your title is completely wrong as well, it’s not a movable fortress, it’s a droppable immobile fortress on a 240 second cooldown which is limited to a very fine area.

If you aren’t smart enough to move out of the area the Crate has been dropped in, then you deserve to take the blunt of the force, Guild wars 2 is all about adapting to your opponents moves, not sitting in them and taking full blunt of the force trying to shrug it all off.

If you sit in the immediate area of a Supply crate drop, then expect to get beat down fast, it’s amazing how many players i see get stunned by my Supply crate drop, move away from it, then immediately run back towards me only to get utterly destroyed by it & me..

See, this is just another reason why I hate going to other forums. First people completely ignore what I say, then after ignoring what I’ve said they insult me for not addressing the issues that I explicitly went over. So let’s break this down, bit by bit.

JoshuaRAWR.4653:

No offense intended OP,

Uh?

JoshuaRAWR.4653:

but i can’t think of another way in which to say how stupid you are in saying that the Supply crate is OP.

Alright, let’s see Josh’s brilliant logical dissertation of my OP!

JoshuaRAWR.4653:

Your title is completely wrong as well, it’s not a movable fortress, it’s a droppable immobile fortress on a 240 second cooldown which is limited to a very fine area.

Wait… I thought you were going to explain how I was stupid? You suddenly jump to something else, which I inferred from your saying “as well”, unless you’re trying to be redundant.

Also, it’s not on a 240 second cooldown… http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Supply_Crate

Even I know this, and I’m a thief. It’s a whole minute less than that. Seriously…

Also, you seem not to have understood the idea behind my title. It was to point out the fact that you can, at any time, just drop a practical fortress on top of anywhere, to do just about anything. The turrets are great for CC, which is the best thing about Supply Crate IMO. Furthermore, this “fine area” that you’re talking about is also more than enough to contain an entire point (excluding the Graveyard on LotF), so I’m honestly not sure what you’re talking about.

JoshuaRAWR.4653:

If you aren’t smart enough to move out of the area the Crate has been dropped in, then you deserve to take the blunt of the force, Guild wars 2 is all about adapting to your opponents moves, not sitting in them and taking full blunt of the force trying to shrug it all off.

So, uh, did you read the OP?

Arganthium.5638:

…when BAM somebody drops a box on my head. Usually I avoid that, but the insta-6k+ heal, healing turret, flame turret, and net turret all at once… That’s the killer. When it hits, it adds a 2-second stun, but even when it does, the skill is just… Stunning (pun half-intended :P).

And where did you pull this out of, anyways? Suddenly it’s about the CC, and me being stupid to be in the radius of the CC? Really? If you’re going to insult me about it, then at least show me where I said that that was the problem. But don’t go around treating me like some kind of idiot when you know nothing about me.

If you think I can’t adapt, then I should never have played a thief. But obviously that isn’t the case, because I can survive in spite of a low defense/healing pool fairly easily.

JoshuaRAWR.4653:

If you sit in the immediate area of a Supply crate drop,

Again, where did I say that this was destroying me?

JoshuaRAWR.4653:

then expect to get beat down fast, it’s amazing how many players i see get stunned by my Supply crate drop, move away from it, then immediately run back towards me only to get utterly destroyed by it & me..

Cool. “Many players” is not the same as “Arctu Spackle Yarba”, so that was completely off-topic.

Gwalchgwn.1659:

I’m interested too
I run a 10/30/0/20/10, D/P S/P or D/P S/D combination. I rely on sustaining damage on my enemy and healing denial.
60% win/lose ratio in tournies, ranked dolyak currently.

I’ll add you in-game and see if I can catch you some time.

Coloxeus.3480:

so this guild is exclusive for thief players only? whats the Guild tag?

Yes, it is- at least for now.

We haven’t decided on a tag yet. but it could very well be something like what Teamkiller said, given the nature of the name.

MrForz.1953:

Arganthium.5638:

I rather explicitly stated that the CC wasn’t the issue here, multiple times…

Just sayin’.

Are you going kitten -drunk mad because we can drop the crate on a capture point? It’s like saying that Thieves Guild is lame because it makes you invisible. And in both cases such a complaint doesn’t make sense. -.- It’s cool for us if you think it’s strong. It’s bad for you if you don’t even bother using Shadowstep and annoy someone else.

Not only do I fail to see the point of your rant, which obviously misses half of the points that I made in the OP and later, but then you seem to treat me like some bullkitten thief who just has no idea what the kitten he’s doing. In spite of the fact that you know absolutely nothing about me, my playstyle, my builds, or my theorycrafting.

Alright then.

Manuhell.2759:

I don’t see it that overpowered. The turrets are quite frail and any enemy smart enough will kill them quite easily, especially since with their huge hitbox you can hit all of them even with melee attacks. Also, AoE.
And to trait it you have to give up other turret traits, since we’ve got a total of four major traits in that tree regarding turrets, so there is a drawback there too.

True. But in PvP, it’s strong for being able to cap a point really easily, or at least get a bunch of ticks on it.

Chaba.5410:

OP? No, considering that a hammer warrior can do much the same thing as supply crate, only more efficiently.

MrForz.1953:

Only idiots would remain in the Crate’s radius once it landed. Gives you a strong guess at what most of the Engi’s victims are.

I rather explicitly stated that the CC wasn’t the issue here, multiple times…

Just sayin’.

Osicat.4139:

Hi

Want to send a little mesmer love to the wvwvw thiefs around. You make the small team roaming wery fun no matter if you in enemy team or friendly. The small team wvwvw would only be half as fun without you.

Adding my latest video wher I duo team with a guild thief.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrWWc_kIvFg

/Osicat from the mesmer forums

Haha, that looked awesome. Should probably use more targeting and a Teamspeak if possible, though.

If you ran this with another good mes and a GC thief, you guys would be unstoppable.

evilapprentice.6379:

So, officially applying I suppse.

Arg, you turned me onto this thread via my own request in the SPvP forums.

I currently run 10/30/0/30/0 Double S/D, focused on Init regen, endurance regen, and Crit. r40 (not saying that makes me a great player, but I do have an above average grip on the mechanics IMO). If you guys need an alternate, hit me up in game.

We can see how it works out, if I fit in, etc. If not, no hard feelings. If so, fun times ahead.

I added you to my contacts in-game, I’ll try to catch you there when I get the chance.

Magnus Steelgrave.6580:

Alex Behemoth.4952:

Arganthium.5638:

Alex Behemoth.4952:

So how many Karka Shells do you have? I have 13k

I quit. I give up.

This.

Just.

I can’t even.

… Geez.

If you think that’s bad then I shouldn’t mention the other items…….

Yeah, would hate to see how they react to a real investment that isn’t just a couple hundred gold haha

Nah, it’s just that I’m super poor.

Jumper.9482:

Arganthium.5638:

Enmity.3428:

I only managed to watch 4 minutes 45 seconds of that 9+ minute video.

In that 4 minutes 45 seconds all I saw was auto-attack and Larcenous Strike spam. Literally, that was all you did, wasn’t it? 111111-333333-111111-333333…

Amazing, bro.

You’re sh*ttin’ yourself at the thought of ArenaNet nerfing your over-powered, cheesy, spammable, unblockable, evasive, boon-stealing, carry-me-to-victory chain-skill, aren’t you?

Please, teach me how to play as good as you do, o Holy One.

I’m sure using Dancing Dagger, Cloak, and Infiltrators work extremely well as dps ini sinks.
Just no one has figured it out yet…
Guys, we’re all playing S/D wrong…

Pffffft.

As it turns out, Sword mainhand is useless. Dagger OH is all you really need!

Enmity.3428:

I only managed to watch 4 minutes 45 seconds of that 9+ minute video.

In that 4 minutes 45 seconds all I saw was auto-attack and Larcenous Strike spam. Literally, that was all you did, wasn’t it? 111111-333333-111111-333333…

Amazing, bro.

You’re sh*ttin’ yourself at the thought of ArenaNet nerfing your over-powered, cheesy, spammable, unblockable, evasive, boon-stealing, carry-me-to-victory chain-skill, aren’t you?

Please, teach me how to play as good as you do, o Holy One.

evilapprentice.6379:

Arganthium.5638:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Team-Akatsuki-looking-for-experienced-Thieves/first#post2137805

If you want to, apply here.

Also, we want to build a decently sized team up, so that we can swap out players when necessary, so it’s ok if you can’t play 24/7.

Thanks for the heads up Arg. I’ll check it out. I’ll be honest tho – not sure what chances an all thief team has in TPvP. I’m willing to try tho.

We’ve already had discussion about strategy, so you don’t have to worry. Also, I’m huge into theorycrafting right now (I’ve made significant developments in my spreadsheets recently), so that’ll help the team as well, I hope.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Team-Akatsuki-looking-for-experienced-Thieves/first#post2137805

If you want to, apply here.

Also, we want to build a decently sized team up, so that we can swap out players when necessary, so it’s ok if you can’t play 24/7.

xmtrcv.5236:

cough

I just saw your PM. >_<

Lol.

Looks like we have five on the team. xD

We still need more, though!

yolosmurf.8052:

Jasher.6580:

yolosmurf.8052:

shockwave.1764:

yolosmurf.8052:

so you just copy paste what a random r 27 who never ever plays the game posts

NICE!

overall i gotta say QUATILITY THREAD!

are you talking about me?

I play everyday. Refute some things I say, rather than be some annoying kitten

Idc if you play everyday with your kitten – keep that to yourself.

Your gw2 shack stats show very nicely that you havent been playing jackkitten in months except for that one thursday.

He’s in my guild. He plays every day. He’s also a very good player.

Wow hearing another kittenkitten noobs opinion on his kittentard noob friend really made me change my mind!

He`s not playing tourneys – pretty much not at all – and thats all i care about so he can gtfo!

which btw brings me back to my initial point:

QUATILITY THREAD!

Nobody cares about what you care about.

Hey all, Arga here.

Team Akatsuki is a team comprised solely of thieves, that seeks success by synergizing well with one another via tactics and superior mobility. With good communication, we believe that we can easily fit together on a team.

We are focused on tPvP, and hope to compete in 3rd party tournaments as quickly as possible.

We don’t require that our applicants have extremely high sPvP rank or Leaderboard ranking, just that they play well, although we will require that any applicants that we are considering to take into the team prove their skill to us in-game. Furthermore, we only want applicants who are willing to take more open-minded perspectives on thief builds, i.e. we’re not going to accept you if you play D/D burst really well but hate anything that is not 25/30/x/x/x. Furthermore, we are seeking to take more mathematical routes in calculating build combinations; we don’t care about your three videos where you gank a couple of upleveled noobs in WvW with your BS build; we design builds with more factual ideas in mind.

If you want to apply, PM me or comment below. Please tell us about your past experience in PvP, as well as playstyle. You can also contact me in-game, or you can contact Pentalic.5409 or Geiir.7603, and we’ll try to set a schedule to evaluate your performance.

Thanks!

~Team Akatsuki~

Atherakhia.4086:

Arganthium.5638:

Atherakhia.4086:

Larcenous strike should put a debuff on the target so they can’t gain new boons for 4 seconds. Then we wouldn’t need to spam it so often.

But you are right about one thing… the only legitimate complaint about thieves is how initiative regen is not balanced.

No.

Calculate the numbers for how much initiative we gain per second, and how much that benefits us, then compare with what other classes gain per second on their skills. Then tell me that it “isn’t balanced”.

The amount of time a thief can be stealthed and access to stealth isn’t balanced. Doesn’t mean the class has the tools to survive if it’s changed, because it doesn’t. But stealth in this game has got to be the dumbest implementation of it I’ve ever seen.

Just stop. Your post was about initiative regeneration, not stealth, and that’s what I replied to. Furthermore, stealth is almost detrimental to teams in PvP, and is easily countered in both WvW and PvP by practically just swinging your sword around and spamming AoE while running in random directions. It works.

Atherakhia.4086:

Larcenous strike should put a debuff on the target so they can’t gain new boons for 4 seconds. Then we wouldn’t need to spam it so often.

But you are right about one thing… the only legitimate complaint about thieves is how initiative regen is not balanced.

No.

Calculate the numbers for how much initiative we gain per second, and how much that benefits us, then compare with what other classes gain per second on their skills. Then tell me that it “isn’t balanced”.

yolosmurf.8052:

Arganthium.5638:

yolosmurf.8052:

so you just copy paste what a random r 27 who never ever plays the game posts

NICE!

overall i gotta say QUATILITY THREAD!

Yes, because rank means everything. Who cares about the theory and the math behind the game?

U mad cuz u bad bro?

Or because it’s not an accurate representer of skill whatsoever?

yolosmurf.8052:

so you just copy paste what a random r 27 who never ever plays the game posts

NICE!

overall i gotta say QUATILITY THREAD!

Yes, because rank means everything. Who cares about the theory and the math behind the game?

Atherakhia.4086:

Step #1: Introduce a skill you channel for 10 seconds and if you do so without being hit or interrupted in any fashion, you stealth. It’s permanent until you reveal/attack.

Step #2: Remove the initiative regen from all skills and traits.

Step #3: Remove the stealth from combo field finishers.

That’s all it takes.

The only reason stealth is overpowered is because there’s so much initiative regen you can use CnD every 4 seconds. The only reason D/P is so powerful is because initiative regen is so high that you don’t lose that much damage from using the defense oriented pistol offhand. The main detractor from Thieves in WvW zerg fights is that you can always see them coming.

You can then worry about improving thief survivability since they’ll clearly be suffering with the now limited health regen, lack of condition removal, greater visibility uptime and the lack of stability/protection.

These are some of the worst suggestions I have ever seen.

Stealth is not OP, especially in PvP. In both PvP and WvW, all you really have to do to counter stealth is swing your sword around and spam AoE. Usually results in a “frontstab” (that’s how I dub it), which sucks and means that you’re winning.

That’s all that it takes.

Penguin.5197:

Supply crate is good on its own and can turn fights around, as elites should, but not anywhere near op. Next time you get the chance ask if supply crate was traited that can probably be the reason why it feels strong when used against you

Eh. There are some elites that aren’t quite so much like that, although they are certainly very good (i.e. Renewed Focus, any of the ele elites, etc).

I will do that though, I didn’t actually know that it could be traited until I checked the wiki.

I stopped caring for stealth ages ago.

shockwave.1764:

Welswift.9813:

Just move, it is one of the only non-movable elites in the game.

Basically this. It’s only good in sPvP when you pop it on a node. You either stay to contest the node, or you leave and take damage/immob.

This is what I’m saying, it’s extremely good for turning fights around instantaneously, specifically, on points, although it could theoretically be used in chokepoints or other important points on a map.

For the early levels, I would definitely go Acro with S/P and SB. First of all, Acro scales up your health better than toughness does, which is a major plus- you want to get as much as you can from your shortage of resources at such low levels. Furthermore, Acro never gets bad; tons of builds love Acro, so it’s nice to get acquainted with the trait line early. Also, because S/P has absolutely zero stealth, it works well with Acro as opposed to SA.

When you can, grab 15 Trickery, and then just scale up your Acro as high as possible. Grab Quick Recovery for the extra initiative regeneration with Roll for Initiative and Infiltrator’s Signet, and then go get Assassin’s Reward later. After that, improve your traits as you like; you can always go higher up in trickery, go into DA- whatever you’d like.

Welswift.9813:

Not really. When you look at some of the sort of control that is available to other classes with elites, the only unique thing about Supply Crate is how quickly it effects the fight. Other than that, if you just break the immobilize and move somewhere else, then it really goes back to the same fight. 6k healing usually doesn’t happen, as they are all so spread out. The dumbest thing you can do in this situation is stay near this “fortress”. Just move, it is one of the only non-movable elites in the game.

This is certainly true, to some extent. Still, the ability to instantly dominate a point in PvP is just insane, IMO. Turrets are generally extremely good for bunkering on points, but they require individual utility slots and really ought to be improved by the Inventions trait line. SCrate, though, pretty much throws down the equivalent of those three utility slots instantaneously, with healing and a possibly rather long stun as well.

Coloxeus.3480:

why no bunker thief written lol…. so they just built for offense. and still many ppl complaining about steal boon flanking strike of thief poor thief very poor

They can be built more defensively. All of my specs typically run much better survivability than tons of thief builds.

And the people complaining about FS stealing their boons make me laugh.

Coloxeus.3480:

is this what you’re talkin about? try this gameplay if u can do it very well. yes this flanking s/d is OP if u played it perfectly. just like guardians, mesmers, engineers, Eles. if u played em so kitten perfect less mistake your OP! everyone can be OP if u played it Perfectly! so don’t ask for another thief nerf.. we’ve been receiving tons of nerfs in the past few months.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LVXxcErhHo

Although you play very well, your opponents seem to be very unaware…

fade.8603:

The reason for having 3 servers is to prevent lopsided fights totally.

Nope, this is exactly what happens. Just go to Eredon Terrace.

Also, if two servers see that one server has points that are very easy to grab and hold, relative to points held by their main contestant, then it’s logical for them to grab points from the weaker server.

redslion.9675:

Well, a thief bunker shouldn’t use stealth, right? For if he uses it, he will lose his point. Correct me if I am wrong, I don’t play thief.

Yes, this is correct.

This is also just about the only point that you could say about bunker thieves in general. :/

Hey guys. I’ve played against a bunch of engis recently, and what I’ve found is that the Supply Crate elite is…. Really awesome. Perhaps a bit too awesome.

I’m not one for crying OP usually, but I’m here to ask y’alls opinion of the elite. I’ll be winning a fight by a clear health margin, when BAM somebody drops a box on my head. Usually I avoid that, but the insta-6k+ heal, healing turret, flame turret, and net turret all at once… That’s the killer. When it hits, it adds a 2-second stun, but even when it does, the skill is just… Stunning (pun half-intended :P).

Furthermore, following my duels with two engis (one of which actually got to drop supply crate twice during our duel), they did seem to agree that the skill was a bit OP.

Anyhow, I’d like to know what you guys think.

Indeed, we all particularly loved your suggestions.

Daecollo.9578:

- Increases Pistol Range to 1200.
- Makes Vital Shot a 100% Projectile Finisher.
- Increases Pistol Damage by 10%.
- Makes Vital Shot Fire Faster.
- Lowers all Pistol Skills by 1 initiative.
- Adds 5 seconds of burning to Body Shot.
- Makes Headshot give 10 seconds of 1 stack of confusion.
- Black Powder additionally creates a “Combo Field: Fire.”

Thief bunker is going to be difficult to define, not because it’s impossible, but because the methods of approaching thief bunker are hugely varied.

“Oh no, my extremely strong HGH might-stacking build doesn’t win within .0912349781693847 seconds any more! It’s dem thieves- they deserve a nerf!”

Bas.7406:

Haha just so you guys are aware. Caed is on SOAC this thread was necro bumped from 4 months ago haha!

Yeah, I realized that.

Quickfoot Katana.8642:

Can any of you high skilled thieves give some tourney tips? Do"s and Don’t"s

Depends on your build. PM me if you’d like.

frans.8092:

Arganthium.5638:

You don’t seem to realize that Vits and Toughness amplify health much more than Crits amplify damage… …

Glad you agree that the choice is between Crit and Vit/Toughness. But I didn’t make any statements about which of those is preferable.

when I said crits, I referred to both precision and crit damage, sorry.

I’m doing a lot of things at once right now.

frans.8092:

Arganthium.5638:

That aside, however, precision and crit damage are just stupid. For example, I can guarantee you that the people commenting here don’t know that the damage amplification resulting from 2000 additional precision and 60% additional critical damage is actually less than the damage amplification coming from 1000 power. …

The flaw in your argument is in assuming it’s either Power OR Critical Damage and Chance, while the gear choices offer plainly include Power AND Critical. With Power as the major attribute, the choice then becomes one between Critical and Vitality/Toughness, or a mix of them.

You don’t seem to realize that Vits and Toughness amplify health much more than Crits amplify damage… To an extent, of course. As the poster above you mentioned, after you build up enough power, precision actually starts becoming extremely powerful, and you often find yourself choosing that over power as the result of damage amplifier. However, vitality and toughness are both extremely good at boosting health, whereas 1% additional crit damage is almost always a horrible choice, simply because it is extremely difficult (particularly in PvP) to grab tons of crit damage at once. If it weren’t for that fact, crit damage would actually be fantastic, but unfortunately you can’t get everything.

Travlane.5948:

i guess its my fault for assuming that targets wore armor in spvp :P silly me lol. anyway just tested it. nowheres near.unless naked. it got close

So let me get this straight.

First, you’re going to insult somebody because something they say is impossible, and then using veiled insults on us to assume our stupidity after we prove you wrong- after all, something can’t be impossible if there’s even a single combination of variables that allows for it to occur. In this case, there was, and your only excuse to it was that it couldn’t happen against targets wearing armor. Except that that wasn’t the original problem; you initially said that it was impossible to do in PvP.

Then, you tell me that the damage is “nowhere near”, unless naked- which is what I actually said.

Finally, you say “it got close”, even though you don’t have anything to prove that you used all of the buffs that I previously mentioned, or to prove that you got “close” to the damage that was stated. How close is “close”? 100 damage? 3k damage?

And of course, all of this is considering that you have a reputation for being a major whiner and trying to act as if thieves are the ultimate underdogs that are given nothing and are persecuted by the mighty and evil ANet.

… Alright then.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

^^ There were no requirements that your target has to be durable…

Exactly.

Don’t be throwing around accusations at people if the requirements you set for proof aren’t the ones that you want…

jportell.2197:

Good thieves in tourneys are squishy… They never cap points unless they are completely alone and they only attack when they see that someone else on their team is engaging their target… BP/HS/Steal/Stomp… move along… Thieves in tourneys are kinda like damage buffers that are meant to deliver the final blows to players in team fights that others just cant seem to down.

Depends on build. With Caed’s build, yes, this is the case.

See, this is why your arguments are dreadful, and, furthermore, why nobody believes in your ridiculous QQ. So let me display the calculations for you.

BS (Back) has a coefficient of 2.4.
Dagger has an average weapon coefficient of 952.5.
Total crit damage = 150% + 15% (zerker amulet) + 5% (zerker jewel) + 30% (30 Crit strikes) + 8% (scholar runes) = 208%, or 2.08
30 DA = +300 Power
Zerker Amulet and Jewel = +923 Power
25 Stacks of Sigil of Corruption = +250 Power
Scholar Runes = +165 Power
Total Added Power = +1638
Assassin’s Signet (Active) = +15% damage
Flanking Strikes = +5% damage
Dagger Training = +5% damage
Exposed Weakness = +10% damage
Executioner = +20% damage
Enemy armor = 1000

Damage = (2.4)(952.5)(1638+Base Power of 916)/1000 = 5838.4

Damage * Signet * Flanking Strikes * Exposed Weakness * Dagger Training * Executioner * Crit Damage (assuming a crit hit) = 5838.4 * 3.83 = 22,356 damage, and that’s with more power than I had previously said. With just 1638 power (including base), it would have been

Damage = 3744.4

Damage * (previously stated buffs) = 3744.4 * 3.83 = 14.34k damage.

Obviously, then, it is possible. Also, I never said anything about PvP’ers being “upscaled”, I was referring to WvW there (I mentioned PvP later). Also, I suggest that upscales are hit harder, but only because they have different gear and traits, not because of their base stats.

Lol I didn’t even see how old this post was.

Well, was worth a shot. I was kinda surprised to see “Caed needs a tourney team!”. Wut.

Travlane.5948:

Arganthium.5638:

Travlane.5948:

yea …math can prove a photoshopper wrong. like the guy claiming 18k BS’s in spvp/tpvp. its not possible. math can prove it/ him wrong. idk what ur talking about as i showed pics of me doing 28.5k against a fully armored warrior :P videos of 18.5k agianst a fully toughnessed armored engi. :P mine are authentic. what i said is if somebody photoshops all you have to do is math and can figure it wrong or right if its a full picture.

Yes, and, in this case, contrary to what you said, it is right, or at least possible. But you said that it wasn’t.

For example, if you have 3000 extra power, flanking strikes, 110% additional crit damage, Executioner active, Nightmare sigils active, Flanking Strikes active, Ogre Runes, and are hitting a player who is naked (meaning that they have the base 916 toughness), then you hit an average of 27.5k on a critical hit.

yeah i just never considered naked/upscale/frenzy as its kind of stacking the deck and unrealistic. i look at highest bs as what you can do by yourself without others helping you.

Upscale base stats are the same as level 80 base stats, the only differences are traits and armor. Furthermore, Quickness is not required to hit such a high backstab; the figure I gave you is just one hit. Now, you never said anything about there having to be “realistic” conditions, so the fact of the matter is that you’re simply wrong.

Now, in PvP, with Flanking Strikes, Dagger Training, Scholar Runes, Exposed Weakness, Executioner, 25 stacks of Sigil of Corruption, Assasin’s Signet (active), and 1638 power on an enemy with 1000 defense, you would hit for about 14.3k. So, clearly,

Travlane.5948:

knobby is so 100% full of lies …cmon aikijin ur not dumb. you know how much easier it is to post a full pic? it takes work to cut out the log box an zoom in. you could even do just 2 pics. one of the full screnn then one zoomed in on the bottom left but with a lil but of screen on it to compare. * im telling you now its 100% impossible to hit any player for more than 9-10k ish in spvp. there is a cap on dmg.*

is just stupid, you have no idea what the kitten you’re talking about. Get over it.

EDIT: sorry, also with 58% crit damage on a crit.