Guild Wars 2

ExZee.8109:

So basically what Anet has to do is fix the buggy pathing that came with today’s update and all problems are solved.

But of course Anet making their typical mistake is the opportune time for the common forum thief to argue to bring back what they intended to fix in the first place. Great logic thumbs up

I’m arguing that no matter what ANet does, it will likely result in a bug like this if this is their intention, and is unlikely to be fixed any time soon. Just look at Shadow Trap.

Furthermore, that was only one in six arguments that I used. So thank you for your nonsensical reply.

as much as this would be awesome to see, the potential for abuse with a build would be a bit over-the-top.

Still, this would just be hilarious.

Crawford.4135:

Arganthium.5638:

I actually played this a few days ago: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAsaVlYm6OHdy5E/5Ey2jKMn4J/DklODa6lA

Glassy but fun I love hit-n-run.

That is the Glass Cannon build for for S/P, and I won’t run in WvW with that. It’s great for 1v1, but you won’t do well with multiple players. Trust me, there is a superior one out there.

Shh, we’re talking to much and the Devs are watching. I don’t want my setup getting nerfed any more! We’ll meet at the Starbucks in the Cone of Silence! — tip toes away from prying dev eyes

Haha

YOU SAW NOTHING

I actually played this a few days ago: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAsaVlYm6OHdy5E/5Ey2jKMn4J/DklODa6lA

Glassy but fun I love hit-n-run.

One of the most ridiculous OPs I’ve ever read, congratulations, you deserve a prize.

“I run a build that is very strong but has one very specific weakness, please nerf that weakness so that I haz teh ultimert berd”

Psybunny.8906:

The skill is totally fine and I think a minor bugfix doesn’t really require a multi-wall-of-text QQ thread. Didn’t have a single issue on S/D in khylo today. Inf range was obviously not intended. It’s like the “END IS NEAR” always with you guys.

I’m not saying that the skill is “bad” or anything, but what I am saying is that it got rid of a very unique tool to the thief and replaced it with a buggy and unreliable skill instead. Will it always fail? Of course not. Will it always fail to do what you need it to do? Of course not. But it will have a tendency to be much less reliable than beforehand in that you really don’t know where you’re porting to.

OsmoZ.1297:

Lol that is really nice, winning games causing lag to other ppl! hahahaha!
Just joking, in fact i’ll try to play more as a mesmer, i’ll try to find ppl that play mes (abbreviation?) and see if they can help me, i’m really interested in playing this game, i’ve loved it, dont even mind if theres no room now for large tournaments, if there are problems, every games has its problems, even those huge E-sports games actually.

Mes is indeed the abbreviation for mesmer, just as engi is for engineer, ele for elementalist, necro for necromancer, warr for warrior, and guard for guardian.

Anyhow, I can find you a few helpful resources for mesmers. For one thing, here’s a whole list of guides to builds for mesmers: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/List-Find-your-Mesmer-Build-Guides/first#post1298253

Furthermore, I’m sure that Osicat or Pyroatheist would be willing to help point you in the right direction, both are fantastic mesmers, even if I don’t always agree with them (sorry to either of you if you’re reading this and not interested, by the way).

Apart from that, you can go to the mes forum and just ask for some help getting started there, they’re pretty welcoming over there.

Good luck.

OsmoZ.1297:

I think i enjoyd more playing a mesmer, i like the idea of confusing your enemies, deceiving, etc… but i found that mesmers were like carries in this game, lol they deal so much dmg that they play that “deceiving” role by killing ppl faster than other classes, but still i enjoyed that concept, in fact i have 50% of pvp play time played as mesmer

Mes is pretty good, I admit. It’s true that they don’t quite use their illusions to deceive people (although they can be a nuisance at times, when trying to identify between them and a good mes- depends how you play, though), but they can be very good at the high-damage stuff, which is a load of fun. They also are very good at disrupting enemy lines of sight, simply because throwing illusions in their face makes a lot of colors and butterflies.

OsmoZ.1297:

Oh guys, i dont even know what BM is… LOL!
And i dont play thief in pvp much, i just played it more, but i dont think thats the class for me you now?
I’m still trying things out, getting to know how every class work in pvp, and whats the most common builds, etc…
But i find guild wars 2 so complex, i’m not new to pvp games, but i played dota, and now lol so much, that i just can get the flow of the game you know? They are different games and the way they work its so different and i guess thats my problem

BM = Beastmaster, referring to the trait line in the ranger arsenal that basically allows them to regrow limbs and whatnot. O.o

If you don’t think that thief is your class, that’s ok too. Just try playing around with classes, see which one you like, and then we can find somebody to help you out with learning the class. It’s really more about what playstyle you want to purse (aggressive? defensive? team support via boons? etc.), after that it’s easy to understand the class. So, just figure out what class you want to play, and then it gets simpler from there.

Brigg.6189:

Spike damage is very high in this game, and playing a glassy character (like thieves tend to be) requires quick and smart reactions. I’d recommend trying a class/build that’s a little tankier if you’re just starting out. BM ranger is a good place to start imo.

Actually, I specialize in more survivable, tankier thief builds. Of course, though, BM is probably the most intuitive tanking build there is.

McFribble.2349:

Arganthium.5638:

McFribble.2349:

Arganthium.5638:

McFribble.2349:

My argument against the Thief “whine”:

You are a class that has almost the most mobility, almost the highest burst, literally the best PvP mechanic in the game, and cry when the devs fix something that clearly wasn’t working as intended.

You are a great PvP class when used within a team (unheard of, I know), have amazing utility for PvE content, and can do almost everything but soak up damage.

If you ever sit and wonder why everyone else associated with the game find your player base a laughing stock, look no further than the QQ from the recent patch.

And yet your ad hominem remarks not once address the content of my post. Perhaps if you read you would understand that the QQ’ing, in this case, is well deserved. But you seem not to have, as it would seem odd for you to read the entire post only to not mention its content once in your reply.

Thus, as your comment is nothing more than the expression of your clearly biased and irrelevant opinions, I see no reason for me to continue discussing with you until you decide to speak on relevant topics.

Congratulations, you just described this thread, the majority of the posters here, and basically 99% of all forums all over the net. With all the time Thieves use to whine in the forums, they could have rerolled a second 80 with full Ascended.

Tell me, then- what is biased about the fact that Shadow Return clearly states that it returns you to your original location? What is opinionated? Is that an opinion, even? But perhaps you never read that.

What I really have to ask you- what gives you the nerve to come onto these forums, make clearly untrue claims (given that there are a very large number of great people on these forums whom I doubt you have ever even corresponded in the least bit with), and then insult us like this? If anything, you should be ashamed with yourself because of your childish behavior.

The nerve that Thieves cry over every insignificant change that happens in the game that somehow relate to them. Sorry you and your buddies on this side of the forums think so highly of yourselves that you can’t see past an obvious fix, but when all you know how to do is complain about how every single patch is a nerf, no one is going to take you seriously.

How has those stealth traps been ruining your game, anyway? I’m sure you’ve just been harassed 24/7 through countless anti-stealth mechanics the forums were raving about, amiright?

… I don’t think this ignorance even warrants a response.

McFribble.2349:

Arganthium.5638:

Lightsbane.9012:

Excalibur.9748:

Meh, thieves get nerfed every patch. This one was no exception…

how can you call this a nerf? it says 1200 in the tool tip. did before this patch.

“Return to your original location.”

That’s what it also says. Before and after this patch, too.

Furthermore, a “nerf” is not defined by intention but by effect. While ANet’s intention may not have been to give this skill infinite range originally, that does not mean that the infinite range was necessarily a bad bug that had to be removed. However, as it clearly decreases versatility granted to thieves, I cannot call this anything but a nerf, as it does have negative effects on thief performance.

And an opposite party could easily say having infinite range for Shadow’s Return offered too much versatility for the Thief. I fail to see how Thieves need as many escapes as they do anyhow, so making a skill work as intended at the cost of a little escape ability isn’t anything worth tearing the forums up over.

But alas, here on the Thief forums…

Further evidence you never read my post with all of my arguments against SR’s nerf?

Arganthium.5638:

5. Counterargument: “But the ability to control two points on the map was just too strong!”

First of all, IStrike doesn’t guarantee control of two points over a very long distance anyways, unless you’re going to burn up a bunch of mobility skills, in which case you maybe have 7-8 seconds to write in your chat “LOL I CAN TELEPORT ACROSS TEH MAP GUYZ” and then have to click the button, which is horribly inefficient anyhow. Furthermore, what’s the point in controlling two points if you only have a very limited time frame to control them, and have to abuse your mobility greatly in order for the teleport to mean anything anyways? Furthermore, while the idea looks great in theory, how many PvPers, for example, have you seen actually abuse this mechanic? Why is this mechanic even good? It means that a main mobility skill just has to sit on your bar unused for 15 seconds. If you try to go cap the clock tower in Kyhlo, for example, from the windmill, what might happen is that by the time you get to the top of the clock tower (and this is given that you abuse your mobility skills) you might have five seconds before you can SR back to the windmill. If somebody is about to neutralize windmill anyways, then why the kitten did you run to the clocktower to go get a few ticks on it in the first place? Now the enemy can attack a largely undefended windmill while you can choose either to let them cap it, and thereby wasting the whole idea behind laying down SR at the windmill anyways, or you can Shadow Return, wasting an initiative and a bunch of mobility skills just so that you can show off the fact that you can teleport from one point to the other in a map quickly, which is absolutely useless. You would’ve just been better off staying at windmill in the first place and then using IStrike to immobilize enemies coming to cap the point in the first place. So, this mobility “abuse” is only any use in fights anyways, as it gives you the opportunity to escape and cleanse conditions, but even then, you can’t let SR sit on your bar for too long without wasting a good weapon skill for you to use, and if you use it at the wrong moment then you might be left with unfavorable conditions. For example, condition cleansing with the skill against a staff necro might just result in you getting mark bursted as you try to get within attacking range of the necro again.

Also, you’re really working your way up to an infraction. Flaming members of the thief community is a surefire way to damage your reputation.

So, you’re a thief?

I could help you out with getting the whole thief deal sorted out, just PM me if you feel like it. Furthermore, however, take Psy’s advice and give the different professions out, even if you just make a character and delete it after an hour because it’s so boring. It’s extremely useful to understand other profession mechanics.

Lightsbane.9012:

Excalibur.9748:

Meh, thieves get nerfed every patch. This one was no exception…

how can you call this a nerf? it says 1200 in the tool tip. did before this patch.

“Return to your original location.”

That’s what it also says. Before and after this patch, too.

Furthermore, a “nerf” is not defined by intention but by effect. While ANet’s intention may not have been to give this skill infinite range originally, that does not mean that the infinite range was necessarily a bad bug that had to be removed. However, as it clearly decreases versatility granted to thieves, I cannot call this anything but a nerf, as it does have negative effects on thief performance.

McFribble.2349:

Arganthium.5638:

McFribble.2349:

My argument against the Thief “whine”:

You are a class that has almost the most mobility, almost the highest burst, literally the best PvP mechanic in the game, and cry when the devs fix something that clearly wasn’t working as intended.

You are a great PvP class when used within a team (unheard of, I know), have amazing utility for PvE content, and can do almost everything but soak up damage.

If you ever sit and wonder why everyone else associated with the game find your player base a laughing stock, look no further than the QQ from the recent patch.

And yet your ad hominem remarks not once address the content of my post. Perhaps if you read you would understand that the QQ’ing, in this case, is well deserved. But you seem not to have, as it would seem odd for you to read the entire post only to not mention its content once in your reply.

Thus, as your comment is nothing more than the expression of your clearly biased and irrelevant opinions, I see no reason for me to continue discussing with you until you decide to speak on relevant topics.

Congratulations, you just described this thread, the majority of the posters here, and basically 99% of all forums all over the net. With all the time Thieves use to whine in the forums, they could have rerolled a second 80 with full Ascended.

Tell me, then- what is biased about the fact that Shadow Return clearly states that it returns you to your original location? What is opinionated? Is that an opinion, even? But perhaps you never read that.

What I really have to ask you- what gives you the nerve to come onto these forums, make clearly untrue claims (given that there are a very large number of great people on these forums whom I doubt you have ever even corresponded in the least bit with), and then insult us like this? If anything, you should be ashamed with yourself because of your childish behavior.

McFribble.2349:

My argument against the Thief “whine”:

You are a class that has almost the most mobility, almost the highest burst, literally the best PvP mechanic in the game, and cry when the devs fix something that clearly wasn’t working as intended.

You are a great PvP class when used within a team (unheard of, I know), have amazing utility for PvE content, and can do almost everything but soak up damage.

If you ever sit and wonder why everyone else associated with the game find your player base a laughing stock, look no further than the QQ from the recent patch.

And yet your ad hominem remarks not once address the content of my post. Perhaps if you read you would understand that the QQ’ing, in this case, is well deserved. But you seem not to have, as it would seem odd for you to read the entire post only to not mention its content once in your reply.

Thus, as your comment is nothing more than the expression of your clearly biased and irrelevant opinions, I see no reason for me to continue discussing with you until you decide to speak on relevant topics.

McFribble.2349:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

McFribble.2349:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

McFribble.2349:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Obviously, those who are saying that this is a “bug fix” have not played GW1 at all and have no idea what they are talking about.

THIS IS NOT A BUG FIX!

That’s all I have to say about that.

Obviously anyone who sees this as anything more than a bug fix don’t know how to read. The skill CLEARLY stated it only had a 1,200 range (lol, “only”).

If you cannot justify why this is a bug, then it is not a bug.

If you think it is a broken skill because it’s too powerful, then say it as it is and not call it a bug.

It is insulting when their intention is to nerf it but hiding behind the pretense of a bug by calling it a bug. Don’t hide under the pretense that it is a bug, it only makes you dishonest.

Just call it as it is.

It is a NERF!

A bug fix is when Anet finds the time to fix our auto-attack timing — now that’s a bug fix worth praising.

Anet aren’t hiding under the pretense that it is a bug. WE are claiming it was a bug, and it has now been fixed. Anet did nothing to say their end but fix the bug at hand.

If this ultimately nerfs thieves, then it is a nerf that shouldn’t have happened in the first place (NOT in the favor for Thieves). Sorry if you have grown too comfortable with EZescape number 7 not working as intended for almost a year, but this is a fix thieves should have been getting ready for ever since it was made clear as day that the range to Shadow’s Return didn’t synch with it in practice.

So that’s all it takes now? To claim that it is a bug and it is so?

Like I said, you cannot justify it.

And you know what? NOW it is bugged and need fixing. When do you think they will fix that?

But hey, if it makes you superior over any thief whenever Anet nerfs us, then enjoy yourself….why are you even here?

I’ll start off by saying I am here because my main is in fact a Thief. Just because you “claim I don’t play a thief doesn’t make it so”.

Second, I don’t need to claim that Shadow’s Return was bugged prior to the patch, it was proven by the skill itself.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow_Return_

1,200 range

Twelve
Hundred
Range

If it did any more than that (which it OBVIOUSLY did), it was bugged and not working as intended. This isn’t even up for debate, it is fact. The skill prior to patch did NOT work as intended. It now works within the listed range, albeit with a new bug in its place (no one is arguing this needs to be addressed). However, the topic isn’t about Shadow’s Return being bugged, there is already a thread about that. The thread is about Shadow’s Return getting NERFED. It didn’t. It got fixed.

That’s… Not even the right skill…

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow_Return

Note that it also says “return to your original location”, not “teleport in the direction you started from up to 1200 meters”. Furthermore, since when was intent a necessary indicator of whether or not something was good?

6. Argument: removing this skill removes diversity between different professions.

The last argument that I’m going to make applies to all nerfs. As it so happens, this game seems to be experiencing far more nerfs than buffs, which I cannot understand. This recent nerf reduces from any unique-ness of the thief. While this was a skill that once only the thief had access to, now the sword consists of some fairly standard attacking ideas. As we nerf everything into balance, professions by nature become increasingly more similar and stale. Nerfing this skill just means that the thief has one less unique skill to its name. In the long run, this has serious consequences in that it makes the game less diverse and interesting, and simply drives the game into one direction of complete uniformity among all professions. What person wants to shoutcast a game when every person is playing the exact same build, strategy, and tactics? However, as we nerf everybody into oblivion, viable builds are being reduced and this is the ultimate effect. If revealed was automatically boosted up to 10 seconds, who would use a stealth-reliant build? There goes another build type. When confusion was nerfed, similarly, that destroyed another build: confusion shatter builds for mesmers. This constant “NERF ERR’THING” button that ANet uses, while very easy and convenient, is resulting in stale gameplay that doesn’t address the problems that the community wants them to address. Rather than devoting time to this issue, for example, ANet could have fixed the 14352724509284752 things that people are complaining about with PvP. Instead, they nerfed a skill which is ultimately going to have negative effects anyways.

In conclusion, the alleged “strengths” of IStrike, like infinite range, don’t give nearly the amount of control that players claim that it does. Furthermore, this patch causes more bugging problems and makes this skill extremely risky to try and use efficiently. Finally, the infinite range on IStrike, prior to the patch, was only any use in battle, but even then could come with some serious adverse effects.

I find this patch highly disappointing and hope that ANet will change this in the future, and consider my last argument as well, that the constant nerfhammer is doing nothing but damaging the game in the long run. Rather than destroying variety and utility, why not try to increase both of those concepts?

However, with the new state of SReturn, hitting Sword 2 now means that there are less possibilities with this skill. You don’t get the same mobility advantages and disadvantages from before that having infinite range grants. Furthermore, skill spamming is much more usable as you won’t teleport 2000 units away from opponents simply for SReturning, which I doubt was ANet’s intention. Also, because of the bugs that SReturn now has, it can actually be extremely detrimental to rely on SReturn at all, as using it defensively might simply result in you losing an initiative to teleport a couple of feet away into a rock, where that GC melee warrior who is simply able to carry around purely melee weaponsets can laugh and then behead your character. Melee weapons are supposed to give more damage but less versatility; ranged weapons are supposed to grant more versatility but less damage. As it stands right now, sword is a mid-ranged weapon that scales… Decently with power, but not as much as Dagger does. For example, HS has a mere 150 less range than IStrike on sword, and yet even the weakest HS type (when the enemy is over 50% health) deals 133% of the damage that IStrike does, as its skill coefficient of 1 is greater than IStrike’s coefficient of .75 . Akittens highest power, on the other hand, Heartseeker deals 266% of the damage dealth by IStrike. However, the one thing that HS lacks is the secondary effect that IStrike grants; a hit-n-run type of effect. However, with this newest patch, HS can basically deal 2.66 times the damage of IStrike, and the only downside is that HS can’t spend one initiative to teleport into a rock 2 feet away. While IStrike does provide some condition cleansing, and a stunbreaker, first of all, it was already glitched so that it often did not give the option to SReturn anyways (or provide a stun breaker). Also, Dagger has easy access to a combo that grants stealth, allowing for a backstab, as well as condition cleansing via SA IV. This newest patch basically tells me that a glitchy skill is a good exchange for much less damage, a faulty condition cleanser (and often our only half-decent condition cleanser) and stun breaker (and this skill cannot be used with SA, by the way, as Sword and stealth are a terrible combination), that costs 1 initiative, etc relative to HS, a cheap skill that does tons of damage, doesn’t have a glitchy effect, and allows for a lot of combos.

…

5. Counterargument: “But the ability to control two points on the map was just too strong!”

First of all, IStrike doesn’t guarantee control of two points over a very long distance anyways, unless you’re going to burn up a bunch of mobility skills, in which case you maybe have 7-8 seconds to write in your chat “LOL I CAN TELEPORT ACROSS TEH MAP GUYZ” and then have to click the button, which is horribly inefficient anyhow. Furthermore, what’s the point in controlling two points if you only have a very limited time frame to control them, and have to abuse your mobility greatly in order for the teleport to mean anything anyways? Furthermore, while the idea looks great in theory, how many PvPers, for example, have you seen actually abuse this mechanic? Why is this mechanic even good? It means that a main mobility skill just has to sit on your bar unused for 15 seconds. If you try to go cap the clock tower in Kyhlo, for example, from the windmill, what might happen is that by the time you get to the top of the clock tower (and this is given that you abuse your mobility skills) you might have five seconds before you can SR back to the windmill. If somebody is about to neutralize windmill anyways, then why the kitten did you run to the clocktower to go get a few ticks on it in the first place? Now the enemy can attack a largely undefended windmill while you can choose either to let them cap it, and thereby wasting the whole idea behind laying down SR at the windmill anyways, or you can Shadow Return, wasting an initiative and a bunch of mobility skills just so that you can show off the fact that you can teleport from one point to the other in a map quickly, which is absolutely useless. You would’ve just been better off staying at windmill in the first place and then using IStrike to immobilize enemies coming to cap the point in the first place. So, this mobility “abuse” is only any use in fights anyways, as it gives you the opportunity to escape and cleanse conditions, but even then, you can’t let SR sit on your bar for too long without wasting a good weapon skill for you to use, and if you use it at the wrong moment then you might be left with unfavorable conditions. For example, condition cleansing with the skill against a staff necro might just result in you getting mark bursted as you try to get within attacking range of the necro again.

3. Counterargument: “But it was never ANet’s intention to make the skill have infinite range!”

First of all, let me say that it was and supposedly still is ANet’s intention to boost thief mobility. In recent SotG’s, they have explicitly stated that they want to boost thief mobility so that we don’t have to constantly use InfArrow in order to go where we want to go to. They also stated that they were contemplating nerfing certain skills, like Mug, in exchange for increased mobility. So, they’ve explicitly stated that they want to boost thief mobility, and yet this “fix” does the exact opposite.

Also, ANet intending for something to be one way does not necessitate that the skill is theoretically correct by being nerfed the way it has been. They also intended for ACarts to be buffed in WvW, and the resulting damage increase has been very unpopular among the WvW community. ANet also intended for Dancing Dagger and Pistol Whip to be nerfed because of Quickness, however, their intentions have now backfired on them due to the fact that they later decided to nerf quickness altogether, so now PW and DD are both very weak skills. ANet can change their intents on the flip of a coin, too, so there’s no reason to believe that original intention equals what is correct for the game.

4. Argument: SR has a very good risk-reward balance with infinite range; without it, it is now more risky than rewarding to use the skill.

SR with infinite range is a very interesting tactical tool. On the one hand, it has a very limited range for attacking, but allows you to go back to one point from any range. This means that you always have to know how far away you and your enemy are relative to SReturn. You can, tactically speaking, draw out an enemy who doesn’t know anything about the skill, and then teleport back to your original point in order to escape. However, if you use the skill while in battle, and you stray too far from the point where you used IS, then you could potentially reset the entire fight, giving you a disadvantage if you engage in combat again because now the enemy knows what your build is, and how to fight against you. Furthermore, with infinite return range, it is actually very difficult to spam the skill, as you could easily teleport outside IStrike’s attacking range if you aren’t careful. Thus, IStrike has the possible benefits of granting you retreat when you need it, or placing your enemies in unfavorable positions, but when used at other times, it can be detrimental as it might reset a fight that is in your favor, put you at a tactical disadvantage, or teleport you outside fighting range with your opponent.

(continued)

Yes, many of you now know about how Shadow Return has had a bug “fixed” that gave the skill infinite range as opposed to 1200 range, as shown on the tooltip. Here are the arguments against this “fix” that I would like to make, as well as some counterarguments to those supporting this so-called “fix”.

1. Counterargument: “But the tooltip says that it has 1200 range!”

The tooltip also says that you “return to your original location”, so obviously the tooltip is contradictory. Furthermore, just because the tooltip says something does not make it theoretically correct in the first place, anyways.

2. Argument: “Fixing” Shadow Return only causes more problems, whether or not the intention to change the skill was correct.

Let’s look at a utility that should be really good, but isn’t: Shadow Trap, a trap which is supposed to be laid down, and then when an enemy runs over it, you teleport to where you originally placed the trap and become invisible. In theory, this sounds great; you can control two places on the map while knowing where enemies are moving. However, ST is bugged- badly. Nobody uses it because, for one thing, the five-second time window before the trap goes back on CD is very inconvenient for a trap that could potentially go off at any second. More importantly (and related to SR), however, ST has a bug where you don’t teleport back to your original location, you simply teleport in the direction of the trap until the terrain provides you with a small obstacle, like a pebble on the ground that you could usually jump over or walk around, but, in this case, stops you because you can’t walk through it. Already, people are reporting bugs with the new SR. For example, as posted by Puru:

Puru.4217:

http://i.imgur.com/AzRuvaT.jpg

Trying shadow return for the first time to see how terrible the return pathing will be now, stuck inside a wall.

Gj.

As if getting stuck inside the geometry wasn’t already an issue with various thief skills (i.e. using InfArrow on Kyhlo and getting stuck inside the boxes in the clock tower), now there’s another skill that does this as well. So, now we have two different and instantly apparent bugs on Shadow Return that are going to cause major problems with thief mobility and can potentially get us killed simply for trying to use a skill, which ends up perma-immobilizing us.

How do you want to hit? I can help you choose between tank, mobility, condition hard countering, high damage, etc.

Yeah, it says that it has 1200 range on the tooltip. Know what else it says?

“Teleports you back to your original location”

penatbater.4710:

I saw evasive invader and thought htis was a wvw build. haha Would you think this build is good in wvw as well?

No, it’s a very good dueling build but in WvW it lacks the mechanics required to make it particularly useful. You can hit and run all you like, but you’re simply too visible and will be spotted out by multiple enemies fairly quickly, at which point you’ll probably die. It also really requires a very particular gear setup.

Woah.

When did the exact same build that I play get popular?

Well… Almost the exact same build. Traits and weapons all the same, amulet/jewel the same, and healing plus 2/3 utilities are the same.

This is weird.

I feel unoriginal now.

Good on you for playing the build though, it’s a very nice weapon to have on you.

EDIT: OH AND HE’S AN ASURA TOO.

All that being said, there are some changes you should make in your play style, IMHO. For example, you waste initiative on skills that aren’t particularly useful, put stuff on CD at inconvenient times, etc.

I can agree with most of what you’re saying, however, two things to note:

1. If I remember correctly, the AoE cakitten o that there isn’t massive ultra super-uber mega lag in large battles.

2. The changes to the dolyaks seem a bit excessive, as if you’re trying to make them unstoppable. I would simply keep them how they are right now (but with the supply/spawning changes mentioned before), and then guarding them closely and watching supply routes becomes infinitely more important, for both the attacker and the defender.

Demonsoul.9271:

runescape

cuz everything

Actually….

… Yeah Runescape is pretty kittenin’ bad.

DeadlySynz.3471:

make the AC’s cost 1 supply to use for each shot. Supply taken off the person that’s using them (not from the tower/keep) etc..

They can’t bunker down forever; inevitably they’ll need to come out for re-supply if they wish to hide behind AC’s. Then it’s a perfect opportunity to sneak in and take over, or just wipe them as they come out.

This would solve a lot of the AC’s problems currently. They can justify having to use supply to build siege, so how can they not justify using supply for ammo as well?

This would actually be an interesting idea in that it makes supply more valuable in the game. As it stands right now, once you’ve used your siege blueprints and supply, you don’t need to use any supply any more. With this, you could potentially run out of resources, in a more realistic sort of battle.

However, the supply can’t come from the castle/keep/etc because that would give griefers an opportunity to waste supply. Since this would be fairly costly after a while to the individual, there has to be some kind of other way to implement this idea that prevents griefing but still makes siege usable by the individual. Perhaps have a limited number of “charges” on a siege weapon, like there are on ele conjured weapons? Would still allow for griefing, though, I suppose.

salluks.6017:

Anet still thinks AC’s are not op apparently.

I would actually be completely fine with AC’s/other projectile-firing stuff if we could actually use stuff like Shield of Absorption/Smokescreen/etc to at least dampen if not negate their effects.

I’ll just drop some music to listen to while you’re discussing this.

CH-CH-CH-CH-CHANGES!

Florgknight.1589:

You probably should’ve dodge rolled through those.

Wayyyy too much firepower. AC AoE is too large, and there were so many ACs and focus fire that there was simply no way that just dodging would have saved ’em.

Now, what really would have been cool would have been to see some people block AC’s/other projectiles with projectile blockers… /sighs those were the days.

Necros are actually pretty frickin’ awesome, I’ve gotta tell you.

Sadly, though, they’re underrated mostly because the strategic advantages brought by their control abilities are highly misunderstood.

Personally, I can’t stand a necro, or virtually any other class besides a thief because the playstyle doesn’t fit my constant-pressure, aggressive nature. Still, I respect a good necro.

As well-intentioned as this post is, it’ll probably just draw a lot of QQ’ers to whine about how GW2 has the worst possible PvP that any game could ever witness, without any explanation how or why.

Pentalic.5409:

Arganthium.5638:

- Penta
- Arga
- xmtrvc
- Geiir
- And now Legi

Looks like this is coming together on its own!
We should set up a practice session, maybe test out builds that would be helpful against certain situations and professions.

Sure thing, I’ll be messaging you all soon with information to help us coordinate this.

I cannot even begin to describe how much I hate the first necro minor trait in DM.

I think it’s cute that you guys are saying this.

You should come on over to Eredon Terrace where large armies and commanders are a very rare sight, where morale is low and trolls are given free access to our chat all while ANet doesn’t care.

VaaCrow.3076:

Arganthium.5638:

VaaCrow.3076:

Don’t roll a thief, imo boring gameplay and brings nothing to small group roams, go for an engi or mesmer. both are very good in small groups when played right.

Seriously? You were the one that came to the thief forums crying for a nerf and saying that you had “over 1k hours of thief gameplay”, now you’re saying that it’s boring?

“Oh, I played a really boring profession for over 1k hours that does nothing for group roaming. Roll a different prof. Oh btw please nerf thief.”

In that very same thread you’re so expertly qouting me from i explicitly said i found the class unchallenging >>>>>>> BORING. how thick are you, lol.
In that thread I asked for a balance? I said the class is op? both valid opinions, given my experience with the class, I also said the class is unchallenging in my OPINION? Oh hurr durr quit being so kitten, lol. the 1k hours is more to do with my thief having a comm tag in wvw than it was to do with me “loving” the gameplay, it was fun for a time but i feel the class needs to be made more difficult to play, thats why i made the thread to see if anyone else shared that opinion > some did.

And instead of attacking my posts in someone elses thread maybe you should contribute > the OP asked what class to roll, he asked for opinions! I gave mine as did many others, but then again i wouldn’t expect trolls like yourself to understand that. go back to spamming heartseeker, forums are too above your capability to think.

Since when have “unchallenging” and “boring” been synonyms? Furthermore, why do you necessitate being rude about my “thickness” when you didn’t even establish the two as being the same as one another? And, of course, as I originally stated, why did you play +1k hours if it was boring? Also, I never did quote you in that thread, I left one response asking why stealth was OP (as that appeared to be the argument floating around) that not once was replied to, by you or anybody else.

Furthermore, my contribution is in showing others that your opinion is invalid because
1. It’s just that, an opinion, and has no factual basis outside of us having to trust your “expert” opinion, which- by the way- has clearly been influenced by some degree of bias, at the very least, apparent by your post in the thief forums.

2. It doesn’t actually explain why it’s boring, just that it’s unchallenging because it’s-what, OP? In spite of the fact that you never explained why it’s OP? You expect us to believe in you because you just say something is OP? Wow, you must be a god.

I’d rather not have the misinformation you are spewing spread out among newer players who are actually trying to enjoy the game. Furthermore, I expect your future responses to at least have some degree of politeness in them, as in your single response to my comment I count at least two or three possible infractions just waiting to happen.

Also, if you really think I’m an “HS-spamming troll” that has “no capability to think”, you’re sorely mistaken on a number of levels, and, furthermore, your claims have absolutely no evidence to back them and are rather ad hominem remarks designed to aggravate me and, ironically, contribute nothing to the conversation. So, here are some clips of my gameplay:

Guards vs Thieves SOAC Consolation Match

Rangers vs Thieves SOAC Revenge Tourney Match

Not once did I even use a MH dagger, in any of those matches.

Ruggan.4102:

Arganthium.5638:

Ruggan.4102:

After all, the people who play them are tired of having to relearn the class every single month as you go on tinkering and nerfing their skills to nothing.

Adapt or die, kiddo. Adapt or die.

Yeap that’s been the mantra of thief haters every month…. and like I said… thieves are tired of having to relearn their class Every Single Month…

Uh… Except that I am a thief (check my sig), and probably know more about the thief and its builds than you do?

Yes, I am totally a thief hater. That’s me, guys. And I’m not tired of having to “relearn” my class every month because I choose to go original with my builds and not play the thief meta.

Ruggan.4102:

After all, the people who play them are tired of having to relearn the class every single month as you go on tinkering and nerfing their skills to nothing.

Adapt or die, kiddo. Adapt or die.

Kasama.8941:

Rampager gear gives you both.

- Penta
- Arga
- xmtrvc
- Geiir
- And now Legi

Lighter.5631:

Arganthium.5638:

Lighter.5631:

Arganthium.5638:

Lighter.5631:

No, leave us alone. Not like you didn’t get your attention back then. Warriors have been the worst class in PVP and the most ignored for a long time now. Just leave us alone

Please, kitten more.

Warrs have great control options (all of the physical utilities, “Fear Me!”, hammer, mace, shield, and then a lot of control spread out among all kinds of other skills), and the largest build diversity as they have the most flexible set of weapons. They can bunker, tank, provide boon support, become very mobile, go high damage- low survivability, or go all-out GC. Their utility skills allow for vastly different playstyles, from control (physical utilities) to soloing (signets) to mobile team support (shouts) and all the way to creating fortresses of boons support with banners.

So please, don’t even start that.

Are you serious? your logic is so flawed. none of what you said actually change the fact that warriors are the worst in pvp

Says that “my logic is so flawed”

Doesn’t explain how or why.

I thought i said it. Ok, ill say it again, since you can’t seem to see it

*None of what you said have any thing, literally nothing related to the fact that warriors are the worst in PvP. *

I can’t imagine how can you base a class’ strength base on it’s build diversity. Oh and did i mention that there’s something called useless build i thought you would know that.

Yes, none of it is related to the “fact” that warrs are the worst in PvP because that isn’t a fact, is a pretty godawful opinion and for some reason you expect my post that was meant to counter that idea to still support your bias. It’d be like me saying that rangers are horrible in PvP, then you listing out why that isn’t the case, and then me telling you that none of that is true because none of it states why rangers are horrible in PvP. You still haven’t established the base condition of why warrs are horrible in PvP, and you haven’t actually countered my points stating as to why they’re actually not bad in PvP, you’ve simply said that they’re irrelevant because they don’t support the original idea that you posted that has no evidence to support it.

Furthermore, build diversity is extremely useful in devising team strategy. Because warrs can pretty much fulfill all of the roles that may be needed on a team, you’re allowed to use the other players on your team much more flexibly to stick with the strategy that you’re trying to implement.

pot.6805:

Arganthium.5638:

Lighter.5631:

No, leave us alone. Not like you didn’t get your attention back then. Warriors have been the worst class in PVP and the most ignored for a long time now. Just leave us alone

Please, kitten more.

Warrs have great control options (all of the physical utilities, “Fear Me!”, hammer, mace, shield, and then a lot of control spread out among all kinds of other skills), and the largest build diversity as they have the most flexible set of weapons. They can bunker, tank, provide boon support, become very mobile, go high damage- low survivability, or go all-out GC. Their utility skills allow for vastly different playstyles, from control (physical utilities) to soloing (signets) to mobile team support (shouts) and all the way to creating fortresses of boons support with banners.

So please, don’t even start that.

Wow, if all that was true and worked outside of theory, we’d be the best pvp class in the game. Except we are at the bottom. I can tell you’ve never actually played a warrior.

I have played a warr, albeit not as a main. Furthermore, I’ve played against many a warrior and seen many a good warrior via Twitch as well.

Also, what causes it to work in theory but not in practicality? Because you don’t explain.

VaaCrow.3076:

Don’t roll a thief, imo boring gameplay and brings nothing to small group roams, go for an engi or mesmer. both are very good in small groups when played right.

Seriously? You were the one that came to the thief forums crying for a nerf and saying that you had “over 1k hours of thief gameplay”, now you’re saying that it’s boring?

“Oh, I played a really boring profession for over 1k hours that does nothing for group roaming. Roll a different prof. Oh btw please nerf thief.”

Lighter.5631:

Arganthium.5638:

Lighter.5631:

No, leave us alone. Not like you didn’t get your attention back then. Warriors have been the worst class in PVP and the most ignored for a long time now. Just leave us alone

Please, kitten more.

Warrs have great control options (all of the physical utilities, “Fear Me!”, hammer, mace, shield, and then a lot of control spread out among all kinds of other skills), and the largest build diversity as they have the most flexible set of weapons. They can bunker, tank, provide boon support, become very mobile, go high damage- low survivability, or go all-out GC. Their utility skills allow for vastly different playstyles, from control (physical utilities) to soloing (signets) to mobile team support (shouts) and all the way to creating fortresses of boons support with banners.

So please, don’t even start that.

Are you serious? your logic is so flawed. none of what you said actually change the fact that warriors are the worst in pvp

Says that “my logic is so flawed”

Doesn’t explain how or why.

Lighter.5631:

No, leave us alone. Not like you didn’t get your attention back then. Warriors have been the worst class in PVP and the most ignored for a long time now. Just leave us alone

Please, kitten more.

Warrs have great control options (all of the physical utilities, “Fear Me!”, hammer, mace, shield, and then a lot of control spread out among all kinds of other skills), and the largest build diversity as they have the most flexible set of weapons. They can bunker, tank, provide boon support, become very mobile, go high damage- low survivability, or go all-out GC. Their utility skills allow for vastly different playstyles, from control (physical utilities) to soloing (signets) to mobile team support (shouts) and all the way to creating fortresses of boons support with banners.

So please, don’t even start that.

… Except that nothing is broken and so there’s no reason for ANet to introduce inflationary monetary policy into the economy?

YOU GUYS RES’D THE THREAD OMG xD

Sure thing, RFF.

So, here’s who we have on the list of people that appear to be interested:

- Pentalic
- Arga
- xmtrvc
- Geiir

We could probably use three more people in order to have a team, a coach, and an alt (who can also serve as a coach, buildcrafter, etc).

TheGuy.3568:

For the record I would rather be interpreted as angry than proven wrong. Thus I am fine with the result since I rather be right.

I personally think we are done here wouldn’t you agree?

Arrogant much? Why should you be afraid of showing yourself to be wrong? Would you not prefer to learn something, at the end of the day? If you’re right, then you don’t have anything to worry about, and, in that situation, because you cannot by definition be proven wrong, then you should worry more about being interpreted as being angry than being proven wrong. If you’re wrong, then you should take joy in the opportunity to learn something new, and be afraid of coming across as being angry in fear of the idea that it will repel people from wanting to teach you anything new, or cooperate with you in the future.

Anyhow, @ the people who are complaining about how RFF gets downed 3 times: why should it matter if you get downed three times if you can guarantee that every time you will be able to rally easily? If it was PvP, I might understand, because enemies don’t die so easily and have much more complicated tactics, but here it seems a bit ridiculous to assume that going down must be a bad thing, when every time he goes down RFF guarantees that he’ll be able to get back up again.