Guild Wars 2

I think they need uncatchable as a non-reveal damage source.
But besides: nobody likes them.

As an outside party here:
-Yes, from my experience with vingador he gets overly agitated if someone does not perform well and is easily thrown off by the tiniest mistakes.
-However I have not experienced any unfairness or any wronging.
The times you commented on my playstyle might have not been completely neccessary, but at least it was just and only on mistakes I actually made.
Moste people comment on what they dont understand, you dont.
-If you purposely troll a player (like in the vid) you are no better than any toxic behaviour you wish to ‘punish’. If four people purposely sabaotage your match, it may not be the appropiate action to quit it, but you cant say it ‘happens for no reason’ either.
-I have experienced several times where vingador ‘threatened’ to afk, but Ive never seen him do it. In fact we have turned several losses around because everybody kept playing.
-Its not like only the bad players get raged on. Ive also received several comments telling me I did a good job.

All in all. Whilst the player Prince Vingador has obviously acted toxic several times, he still belongs to a type of toxic players that you can work with: They know what they are doing and they dont say anything unless they have a ‘reason’
In fact this is one of the few toxic player that you can work with and win with.
If you decide to participate in trolling a player to purposely cause toxivity, it is your own kittening fault.
Its about as amazing an idea as loosening gun control to prevent public shootings.

‘Equalizing’ would be to bring elemntalists healing down to 0,8 million and guards up to 0,8 million. Giving the guardian the same amount or more is powercreep by definition.
The 4475 was a number you came up with.
I will do accurate amth for you the second you give me a healing power scalar to work with. After that i will create a sage guardian that is so op it actually rips the causal continuum and deletes all non-guardians from the game even without the balance patch ever going live.
Look: I really want to help you with this, but in order to do so you must face facts: What you are suggesting is completely out of place. Just bringing the weaker specs on an ele’s level would be bad enough, but at least that would mean inter-class balance.
But you are actually exceeding this by far and instead creating a god class.

Another tip here: think of three basic builds. Each of this builds has one clear strenght: lest say boon application, tanking and condition damage.
All of these builds are allowed to excel in their respective area, but they are exclusive and cant do anything else.
That is called balance.

SuperKorean.7345:

MidoriMarch.8067:

Pvp rank doesnt mean kitten

play few weeks and u can even get up to legendary division

I dont even know why some people thinks pvp rank = omg i am so pro

It took me only one week going from Amber to Diamond.
I went through Diamond tier 1 to Diamond tier 6 with 80% win rate.
But I got stuck in Diamond tier 7 for a month now. LOL

Thats kinda the problem.
Not saying you are a bad player, but a winrate of 55-60% would indicate matchmaking didnt carry you.
The more and longer winning streaks you had on your way to diamond, the more likely you dont deserve your rank.
Well, not deserve could be wrong. You can still be a player who deserves to be in leg 20.
But at least it shows that you never faced an opponent challenging enough to prove that you are where you belong.

PowerBottom.5796:

Asrat.2645:

…. attcking them offpoint before they get there. It puts them in a loose-loose situation. They can either try to fight me, therefore not be participating in the teamfight and try to kill a class that will always escape.
Or they can ignore me, allowing me to deal some serious damage and give me free kills on the players that have to retreat from mid to heal.

You won’t do that one single time against decent teams without getting heavily punished for it. Overextending alone into multiple ppl is just bad play. Best case scenario against good teams is that you’ll have to use important CD’s to escape without doing anything.

Thief should at first either get close or help getting close, then either try and get a kill mid if there are only 1-2 enemies there or decap far.

Under what cicumstances will you only meet 1-2 enemies on mid? If they are all going pet? We where discussing decnt teams I believe.
‘Help getting close’ No. You run mid, if they rush close and your teammate needs help you can go back. But hanging out at close with two people is a bad idea.
If im unlucky I have to use shadowstep to get away. Usually IA is enough tho.
And skipping multiple people is exactly what Im good at. I play paladin staff, they wont kill me unless I let them.(If I choose to stick to a fight or a kill even tho i know I might get killed)

You dont really need it in PvE.
In PvP its strong, depending on the build and what you wanna do, but its completely not mandatory. Ive played a couple of builds running acro>trick and I cant say I missed preparedness too much.
Just play without it if you wish, it will not completely obliterate your gameplay.

princode.2750:

to all thief and warrior main:
if you really want anet to buff thief first you must admit thief and war is currently weak and do not play a role in any team but well if you insist to think that thief is ok then good luck to you guys anet will never buff thief. Good luck believing that thief and war is great its op and able to fit a role in spvp

Most of us dont want thief to be buffed. Thief is okish. We want all the op kitten to be removed so we can play our class like its supposed to be.
Thief should either be left in its current state, perhaps even nerfed if they do soemthing against the powercreep.
Or it needs a full rework from the ground up to change its role completely.

Anari.2137:

Math it as follows:

Base Abilities
750 Hp Every 1 Second = 750 HPS (225,000HP Per every 5 minutes)
1600 every 1 second = 1600 HPS (32,000HP Per every 5 minutes)
1500 Hp Ever 3 seconds (Ultimate) = 500 HPS (150,000 Per every 5 minutes)

Special Abilities:
Hold the line: 2200 HPS over 7 seconds = 315 HPS ( 3150HP Per every 5 minutes)
Save yourselves: 4000 over 13 seconds = 308 HPS ( 3100HP per every 5 minutes)

Total: 4475 Regeneration / Second (like if you burn everything together)
Over a 5 Minute Match: 413,250
Over a 10 Minute Match: 826,500

This by far does not seem to be OP

Edit: i forgot to add Resolve, which is another 250 HPS, 25,000 per 5 minutes, or 50,00 HP for 10. This means that The guardian will actually be lower then a elementalist (which i do 1.1-1.3m heals a game with).

Lets assume we buff it 40% (30% for the talent buff, + another 10% to make sure we are have breathing room for mistakes in math).

That means

Total Regeneration peak: 6265
Total Healing per 5 minutes:578,550
Total Healing per 10 minutes:1,157,100

This means the target 30% i added, Will be just shy of what the current elementalist is healing for!

I assume you are still calculating with a marauder? Add healing power and you will boost this to levels we cant even understand yet.
If you compare to elementalist pls remember that the heals to allies are involved.
Now say ‘virtue of courage’.
This can also become so much more with dodge-roll healings, with sigils and runes, with quickness which allows for more mace autoattcks, if you can apply above average boons to allies…
Recently I did calculations for a guard with absolute maximum everything in healing. Assuming that he would burn all cd’s, make perfect use of each and every skill, in menders.
What I came up with was 90k. Im not sure if 30sec or 60sec, but that is already a very huge number. And its pretty much what you now came up with with almost no effort at all.
You said 4475 regeneration/sec. That is 44750/10 sec. 268500/min. 134250/30sec
2685000/10 min Im not sure where you got the 4475 from, but assuming the math leading to this number is correct, you miss a 3x multiplier on your total healing/10 minutes.
Its also 2,5 times higher than the elementalist.
But even if it wasnt: the elementalist in its current state is completely awful and rightfully hated. No class should do what the elemntalist does, or be even worse.

If I may tell you my approach on bunkers: Bunkers should not be defined by healing. They should have access to short framed blocks and partial damage denial in order to eat bursts, but having to temporarely sacrifice their ability to do anything else besides tanking. So a bunker under aggro can hold out, a bunker unattacked can buff. But they cant do both.
Massive access to healing only means its more forgiving for the bunker to make a mistake, and the enemy team is basically forced to burst them down instead of being able to deal damage over time.
A bunker however should be better against bursts and worse against sustained damage.
Healing effects should also help you in combat, but not be able to define it. The only skill that is ok to heal for a major amount outside of a true healer build is your healing skill.
Your 4475k healing/sec, plus protection make you able to take about 6k damage/sec without a notice. That is probably higher than the average dps a lot of classes can expect for spvp.

I would advise you to listen to bravery here, not to me. There is someone who has spent a lot more time with guardian balance than I have and probably than you have.

There is a balance patch incoming so everything said here can change completely.
But for now: ele is not a squishy damagedealer. Well, they are in pve and maybe in wvw, but not in pvp. They are support bunkers. Mindless healbots who dont die and keep their team alive.
Thieves however are a little lost in all the powercreep. The class aint bad, but it feels left behind. The skill cap is higher than ever and you will have to live with avoiding direct confrontations. The main rule it to outnumber or avoid fights, but dont make them even.
I think I still can recommend thief if you truly enjoy the playstyle. The class is okish for pve and you can make it work for pvp. And if you manage to do so its a lot more fun than most faceroll classes. At least the mobility puts your fate in your own hands.

A thief and a rev go pretty good together. A dangerous combination to fight and a rev from stealth can be devastating. Thief and mesmer are also pretty good. One stunlocks and the other one damages. Requires some training tho.
The rev also features ‘high dps’, it has been called thief 2.0.

You really arent trying to make this easier are you? Im offering comprises again and again and somehow you still find something to be unhappy with.
Btw, I admitted to be poisoning the well up there. I just wanted to demonstrate how easy it is to turn your own words against you, I just generally try not to do it.
Anyways. i will be sleeping now. And as much as I enjoy heated conversations I dont know if I will be in the mood to continue this tomorrow so:
You are probably right. As previously stated I have moved so far away from my original statement that im not even sure what point I was trying to make in the first place.

…
Ok. Math. If I try using some of the passive healing sources, like mace, virtue of courage and altruistic healing, additionally receive the light. And assume I am just autoattcking and occasionally searing symbols.
I will have an effective health of 79000 over 30sec. That not considering aegis, aegis traits, protection or any boons, utility or elite skills, the benefits of stability and permanent cleanses, virtue actives, traits for damage reduction or toughness…
And that is on a a marauder. Since I dont know how well your stuff scales with healing power.

On a druid I calculated 60k effective health/30 sec all in. Including uninterrupted celestial avatar, on a shoutbow mender.

Taking into account the stability, perma protection and utility skills you should be easily able to outtank the current ele healbot on a marauder guard. And still pump out massive boons and healing to allies around you. Not forgetting about the damage ofc.

DeathReign.7821:

Asrat.2645:

I dont think I need statistics to prove this.

You cannot say “statistically” to sound like you have a point, without backing up with actual statistics. That’s just not how debates work. I could say that I’m the number 1 player on GW2 based on my statistics, but without showing said statistics, my point is null and void.

This. Is Quotemining. Not everything you say, but for example this. You cant take the sentence out of context when I continue to further explain it.

DeathReign.7821:

I’m the number 1 player on GW2 based on my statistics

See? Not fair

Asrat.2645:

Asrat.2645:

If you honestly think player X performs better in his first game than in his 1000ths game, you are ignorant.
I have by now countless times admitted that rank=/= skill, but its one of the closest indicators we get (name me a better one), using parts of my argument to claim I would still think so is quotemining and I hate quotemining.
There is a reason I dont respond to your quotes individually.
But im a little bit afraid I could start chewbaccaring with my walls of text, let me know if you think that concerns might be valid.

I respond to individual quotes to address said point, so you don’t get confused as to what I am saying. If you take that as “quotemining”, so be it.

And that is cherrypicking. You do not comment on the first sentences because you cant really respond to it without weakening you position. So you only reply to the last few. And what I’m doing now Is poisoning the well.

Yes, ranked games shouldn’t be used to farm rank points, that I can agree on. But I hardly think that anyone who actually plays ranked is playing ranked for the rank points. They do it for rewards and prestige, not rank points. Unranked arenas give the same rank points as ranked arenas, so if they wanted to farm ranked points they could do it there (or in farm maps for that matter).

The point is, there is a difference between being against people farming ranked points in ranked PvP and completely barring under 80s from participating in ranked PvP based on an inaccurate, skewed, almost bigoted notion that they are that much worse of a player because they haven’t grinded till level 80.

Sorry, I thought i made this one clear. The op suggested you should gain rank from ranked , thats what this has all been about.

The whole point about not Qing for ranked at <80 was a side statement extracted from my original argument.
Initially all I was trying to say was: If you havent reached rank 80 you should not spend your time in ranked in order to do so.

I still wouldnt say restricting ranked pvp for low levels would be a bad idea, I would not have defended it the entire time if there wasnt something to it. But that has not been what I tried to say with that very first sentence. That statement was born out of the backfire effect.
Eventually it could be a really cool idea to create internal leaques for the lower level ranges.
So 1-40 are (for ranked) only Qed with 1-40 and can only get to…lets say ruby
and 40-80 to diamond.
That way lower level players can play competitively with the best of their level of experience if they wish and already make progress on ranks, but at the same time get to learn the game without kittening everybody off.

And again you are making utopian assumptions based on how it should be but is not. We have, btw lost any connection to the op by now. That is not just my statement, if im not completely mistaken you even talked about mmr first.
(I will certainly not try to read this up tho^^)
I dont think I need statistics to prove this. The longer you play, the more chances you got to gain knowledge. So a good player of a high rank will be better than a good player of a low rank. I dont have to proove that a bad player of a high rank is better than a good player of a low rank, because that is not the case. To be fair we would have to watch the same group of players during their progression and personal collection of experience and the experienced sample will perfom better. If you start to doubt that I really dont think we can continue our discussion.
If you honestly think player X performs better in his first game than in his 1000ths game, you are ignorant.
I have by now countless times admitted that rank=/= skill, but its one of the closest indicators we get (name me a better one), using parts of my argument to claim I would still think so is quotemining and I hate quotemining.
There is a reason I dont respond to your quotes individually.
But im a little bit afraid I could start chewbaccaring with my walls of text, let me know if you think that concerns might be valid.

My original point was that people should not use ranked games to farm ranks.
I also added a missunderstandable sentence implying I dont want <80 in ranked.
After you started to focus on that statement the backfire effect eventually drove me to think ‘hey, that might not be such a bad idea’
And then one of us came up with matchmaking and we took this entire discussion somewhere else.
You will have to decide now if you wnat to argue about my initial statement or about the backfired rank-lock which does in fact also involve matchmaking.

As I said before Im generally against powercreep. You said you wanted to make melee guards and tank guards more viable, but why don’t you try nerfing other op stuff, planning a full class rework anyways, instead of adding more op stuff to a class that doesn’t need it.
Regardless, I respect your balance of powercreep, but this is what is not justifiable under any circumstances.
-Signet of resolve. Sry but sounds a lot like: I don’t like conditions, so im just going to remove them from the game entirely. Your approach to condi is really out of place. Unless ofc you wish to give every class burn on autoattack, but in that case neither condi application nor condi removal would require any skill at all.
-Receive the light. Cd decrease is not ok. Healing skills with that short of a cooldown make things much too easy. You may want to create a support bunker, but I don’t think you want to create healbot ele 2.0
-Litany of wrath: initial heal is wayyy too high. And the fatal heal is really only ok in the current meta where that 50% are just going to melt again.
-Signet of courage. Instant casts are to be avoided. It cant be countered
-Feel my wrath. Effectively 20% quickness uptime, untraited and without boon duration. Do you really want this?
-Utility: Reducing cooldowns is ok, but pls consider cd-traits and maybe not so drastic. Stick with 10-25% for now. Also: no ressing and stomping from sanctuary or in sanctuary. The last thing we need is a completely safe, undenyable ress.
-Strenght of faith. See: signet of resolve. Really, you don’t have to remove conditions. Especially since I believed you just said they should be removed more actively.
-Stalwart defender. Protection is what? Im gonna pretend to not have read it, you cant just have written that.
-Supreme justice: no, you cant just put burning on all of your attacks, thats just too easy.
-Absolute resolution: You want to heal yourself for 500health/sec permanently and passively?
Other people have to use menders gear, perma regeneration and a spirit of nature for that.
-Symbolic avenger. Stability is an awful boon and should only be applied in very short timeframes and on long cooldowns. It should exclusively be used to secure a stomp or a burst, never as a passive cc-countermeasure.
-Invigorated bulwark: healing effectivess is a bad idea, use healing power to respect individual skill scaling. And not more than 10%
-Pure voice. You are a boon application class. Boon stripping has no place here.
-Banish. YAY. More hard cc spam
-Ring of warding: You don’t appear to realise how powerful these abilities are. Cooldown is very fine as it is.
Feel free to disagree with me, but this is simply too much. Way too much. If every class got changed like this it would turn the game into a spamfest. You don’t have to agree with my approach of nerfhammering either, but pls admit that this is powercreep and nothing but powercreep.

Oh and: don’t take it personal. I do this to every forum idea I come across that seems like someone is trying to have their cake and eat it too.

Brockolosso.8316:

Asrat.2645:

Brockolosso.8316:

Asrat.2645:

DeathReign.7821:

So you’ve not actually done much ranked PvP but think yourself proficient enough to make blanket statements about ranked PvP based on the little ranked PvP you actually have done. Kay.

What you are doing sounds like a personal problem, and definitely not one the community should have to follow.

Limiting RPvP to rank 80+ will have three basic effects:
-Inexperienced players wont play it. Yes, even if they are three times better than the average ranked player. Unless they are actually stupid enough to think rank farming gives them the privileque to compete.
-Everyone in ranked would have at least a basic understanding of rotations and usually know their own class.
-As an result of this, processing through the divisions would become much harder, but much less dependent on matchmaking, due to player skill following a more logarithmic/-exponential path of developement.

Yes, there would be less players= longer Q. Yes, it would stop some people from playing RPvP in the first place. Yes, this would not do everyone justice.
Basically I think we can agree that the three points are true. Whether that is a good or a bad thing is a matter of opinion.

I am strongly against elitism, but there are exactly two game areas where I approve of it:
Ranked PvP and raids. Both are meant for elitists to feel home.
If you give new players the opportunity to play ranked, ofc they will do it. But unfortunately that destroys the entire system.

The thought that you have to be 80 to be regarded as an experienced player is plain stupid, im 55 and legendary and its not like you have to go threw this endkitten level grind to learn the mechanics

Nice for you. Did you read the rest of what I wrote?
And how exactly would it hurt you if you had to play a few hundred games unranked more before you get your chance to beat up the big boys?

So you think its a good idea to force everybody into months of grind only to play in the leagues? It would hurt quite a bit, some people have other things to do than spaming unranked for meaningless levels

Yes. Basically I believe ranked should not be something you can just get into after you just started playing pvp. And neither do I see a reason why you should. The game will be around for years, if you cant take a few hours each day for a few months you might be wrong for what I consider the ‘elitist content’ of pvp.
After this entire discussion you people still fail to explain this to me: If you want to play and enjoy PvP, you can do it in unranked. So do I.
But if you want to compete and try to be the best, why is it a problem to invest time and work to prove you are worthy of doing so.
It is not grind if you actually like PvP.
If you enjoy PvP, why would you have to play ranked asap?
I ask this as a serious question: why?
The rank is not any indicator of skill, but it means that you have accomplished something. If you are already a good player you wont get worse by praticing more.
If you are still a bad player at rank 80, you will be a minority and in the ranked enviroment you will either learn quickly or be gone.

DeathReign.7821:

Thank you for ignoring everything I’ve said.

Your system will not work. Locking ranked PvP pre-80 will not guarantee a skilled or experienced player base.

0-80 means nothing, and just about any PvPer will tell you so.

You seem to be transfixed on the notion that anyone below 80 doesn’t know how to play, and everyone above 80 does. This just isn’t true, and I don’t know how many times I have to repeat this for you to understand it.

Locking ranked PvP to 80+ will not work.

I am fully aware of that. Thats why I said such a system does not necessarely have to be based on rank.
I leveled too, and im usually a fast learner. I was able to fight most players before I reached 80 and I am still getting beaten by players who are below 80.
I know everybody can theoretically understand the mechanics and the rotation in 100 matches, and I know by far not every player who should understand them actually does.
All im saying is that statistically speaking a player will be better, the higher their pvp-rank is.
So this seems like a possible system to base a minimum requirement on.
What else would you base it on? Win-loose rate? Personal high scores.
I actually know the answer. You wish for no such system to be in place, and that is completely understandable.
I resort to it due to the lack of alternatives.
I will make the basic assumption that nobody is better of if we have bad players in the higher ranks.
Since I cant, and you cant and appearently anet cant think of a matchmaking system so flawless, it would prevent that from happening as soon as bad players are part of the system, the most logical solution would be to exclude low level players from it in the first place.
This will only be achieveable if they have to meet certain requirements to enter the leaques, these requirements should resemble their skill as closely as possible.
So admittedly rank is not a good indicator of skill, but an indicator of experience and statistically an. indicator of knowledge.
So either you have a better way to pre-select players, can come up with a skill-based matchmaking system that only the best can prevail in, disagree with my first assumption and replace it with ‘ranked should be for anybody and every player should be able to get to legendary’ or you can admit that my solution is a bad one, but you can not offer any better.

Brockolosso.8316:

Asrat.2645:

DeathReign.7821:

So you’ve not actually done much ranked PvP but think yourself proficient enough to make blanket statements about ranked PvP based on the little ranked PvP you actually have done. Kay.

What you are doing sounds like a personal problem, and definitely not one the community should have to follow.

Limiting RPvP to rank 80+ will have three basic effects:
-Inexperienced players wont play it. Yes, even if they are three times better than the average ranked player. Unless they are actually stupid enough to think rank farming gives them the privileque to compete.
-Everyone in ranked would have at least a basic understanding of rotations and usually know their own class.
-As an result of this, processing through the divisions would become much harder, but much less dependent on matchmaking, due to player skill following a more logarithmic/-exponential path of developement.

Yes, there would be less players= longer Q. Yes, it would stop some people from playing RPvP in the first place. Yes, this would not do everyone justice.
Basically I think we can agree that the three points are true. Whether that is a good or a bad thing is a matter of opinion.

I am strongly against elitism, but there are exactly two game areas where I approve of it:
Ranked PvP and raids. Both are meant for elitists to feel home.
If you give new players the opportunity to play ranked, ofc they will do it. But unfortunately that destroys the entire system.

The thought that you have to be 80 to be regarded as an experienced player is plain stupid, im 55 and legendary and its not like you have to go threw this endkitten level grind to learn the mechanics

Nice for you. Did you read the rest of what I wrote?
And how exactly would it hurt you if you had to play a few hundred games unranked more before you get your chance to beat up the big boys?

-Surge of the mists
-Precicion strike
-Unrelenting assault (no, its not op, but no burst skill should be unavoidabale and uninterruptable)
-Riposting shadows
-Radiant revival
-Empty vessel
-Unwavering avoidance
-Versed in stone
To name only the best reasons, there are more tho.

Prince Vingador.8067:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Lol @ all the people saying thieves are fine, most of them are just bad. Do you even hear yourselves? What if a year ago all the thief mains said “necro is fine, most necros are just bad”? I don’t think thief is as underpowered as some make it out to be, but get real if you honestly think you can generalize the majority of a population as being “bad” rather than looking at class balance.

thieves are fine , problem is they just need more skill to play , i play vs very good thieves that never die, or almost never, (there is only 4- 6 thieves like that)
but all the others insta die all the time , cause they dont know when to leave a fight, they jump in the aoe and die also . If you play good , a thief really is very nice to have with all the mobility an dnice dps , fast decap s + 1 etc etc , but its super rare to find a good thief .
im not gonna lie and say playing thief its easy, but if you can play one then thief is fine , thief cannot afford to do so many mistakes like the other classes thats why we notice a bad thief much faster.
And ofc they perma die and then they come to the forum and cry, do you see any top players that play thief crying? i could name 6 players that play thief and never die in macthes so yes its a l2p issue.

The main problem is the competition. Thief can be a valuable addition to a team, but not valueable enough to give anything else up for us if you have a choice.
(And ofc it requires the thief to be good and the team to work with the thief, its a lot easier for the faceroll classes)
The other main problem is that a lot of us, like myself are not happy with our current role.
Lets just say I did not choose a class and committed 2k hours time to it, just to be able to run around the map and ‘+1’ the fights of others. Especially not with a class that, by concept, is commited to 1v1 scenarios.
That said being someone who played quite a couple of matches at your side and being ‘one of the thieves who usually dont die’

DeathReign.7821:

Which is why the MMR system (no matter how bad) is in place. Sure, MMR system could be improved, but that’s an entirely different topic. Point is, less experienced/newer/bad players should be in the lower divisions, while only people that know what they are doing should advance.

Well yes. If the mmr system was perfect and If it was even possible to create a system where only the good progress beyond a certain point, such mechanics would become obsolete. You may have to consider the otption that it is not possible to create such a system.
1) Good players progress, bad players dont, working as intended
2)Bad players only face other bad players and eventually progress to the mid-range
3) the not-as-good players can farm the bad players and progress further
4) more even-worse players keep pushing from the lower ranks.

If we make the utopian assumption of natural selection im totally with you. If you have a good idea how to make it work I will always be there to help you develop it. But until then the best solution is to completely lock ranked PvP from lower tier players (must not be rank 80 or rank at all, but some system should ensure a general minimum playerbase quality for ranked)

You seem to overestimate the impact of rank farmers. Most of them just want the achievement and the titles. Very few are actually interested in playing PvP (competitively) If you have event the slightest interest to play PvP, the fastest and best way to rank gain is to earn it.

Im working on stuff like this too, and what Ive found out is that it is almost impossible to do only one class at a time.
You have to work on the entire picture, balance everything respectively and in comparison to other classes mechanics.
One thing I can definetly recommend you to do is: try to create builds. Several/class.
You will have to do tons of math for that, but it is the only way you can make sure, your balance patch is better than anets. Ive the final goal to include 36 viable builds, but of course you will have to exponentially do more work the more builds you have to compare.

From my first look at your guard it looked like incredible powercreep(will add detailed feedback over there). If thats the intention of your balance: ok, but dont expect to see much love for it.
From the current state of the game it should be your goal to make each and every profession weaker than it currently is, exept for warrior maybe.
Best ways to accomplish that:
-Less access to boons
-Less access to hard CC
-Elite specs should not prove a significant upgrade
-Less access to high damage AOE and ranged
-Less access to blocks, invulnerabilities and evades
-No or very few completely uncounterable mechanics.

But of course that is just an advice, strongly influenced by my own perspective and my own thoughts about the game and far from observant.

DeathReign.7821:

So you’ve not actually done much ranked PvP but think yourself proficient enough to make blanket statements about ranked PvP based on the little ranked PvP you actually have done. Kay.

What you are doing sounds like a personal problem, and definitely not one the community should have to follow.

a) I have not stated how much ranked I played, but I, in fact rarely touched it before the seasons were introduced.
b)What problem? I do not have any problem. I just dont get why everyone wants to play ranked so badly.
Its meant to compete. A lot of people who play ranked are clearly not capable of doing so. And so they dont enjoy playing ranked, neither do their teammates, neither do their opponents.
So if you are neither ready to compete, nor ok with loosing, you should stay away from ranked. Unless of course you just want rewards and incentives. In that case they should probably make the target golems praise you if you deal high damage and maybe spit some gold on CC application.

Look, all im saying is this: Having players interested in ranked PvP is great, but it should be happening out of the willingness to compete and improve, not to learn the basics of the game, not to get items.
Thats why I consider the OP’s idea bad, thats also one of the problems I see with the current system.
If i am playing ranked I want to meet players who actually give me a hard time fighting them. Not players who wipe on a test of faith, who are incapable of dodging a gun flame.
Limiting RPvP to rank 80+ will have three basic effects:
-Inexperienced players wont play it. Yes, even if they are three times better than the average ranked player. Unless they are actually stupid enough to think rank farming gives them the privileque to compete.
-Everyone in ranked would have at least a basic understanding of rotations and usually know their own class.
-As an result of this, processing through the divisions would become much harder, but much less dependent on matchmaking, due to player skill following a more logarithmic/-exponential path of developement.

Yes, there would be less players= longer Q. Yes, it would stop some people from playing RPvP in the first place. Yes, this would not do everyone justice.
Basically I think we can agree that the three points are true. Whether that is a good or a bad thing is a matter of opinion.

I am strongly against elitism, but there are exactly two game areas where I approve of it:
Ranked PvP and raids. Both are meant for elitists to feel home.
If you give new players the opportunity to play ranked, ofc they will do it. But unfortunately that destroys the entire system.

I think we all are aware that a lot of players are stuck but deserve it and just need something to blame it on.
However, if you actually had bothered reading one of the threads you linked this in, you would have realised the actual existence of mmrhell has been statistically proven.
It is a fact that the algorithm keeps players down, tho its just a minority.
You may want to consider that your ‘L2P point of view is just as biased as their ’blameMMR’

It is called the ‘fundamental attribution error’ or the ‘actor-observer bias’ and both groups in this most senseless discussion are suffering from it, as well as probably half a dozen other biases.

DeathReign.7821:

Asrat.2645:

DeathReign.7821:

Honestly, do you honestly think anyone goes to PvP not thinking that they’re the best? The amount of ego that floats around the PvP lobby could rival Kanye West. Okay maybe not, but pretty kitten close.

In the end, everyone thinks that they’re the best deep down, or want to see where they stand competitively.

Nah. They are all just ‘above average’. Me too btw.

So why are you in ranked then? By your definition you shouldn’t be playing ranked unless you’re the best.

I am not. I spawncamped to mid ruby, realised it wasnt challenging or competitive in any way and decided ruby would be the appropiate place for me if the system worked right.
So I moved back to unranked where I can play my thief without some1 crying about it.

DeathReign.7821:

Honestly, do you honestly think anyone goes to PvP not thinking that they’re the best? The amount of ego that floats around the PvP lobby could rival Kanye West. Okay maybe not, but pretty kitten close.

In the end, everyone thinks that they’re the best deep down, or want to see where they stand competitively.

Nah. They are all just ‘above average’. Me too btw.

DeathReign.7821:

I’m at this weird crossroad where I half agree with you and half disagree. I agree that you should gather experience before you try ranked, but simply disagree that there is an arbitrary benchmark that you can blanket the entire player base under in order to “qualify” for ranked. If they aren’t experienced enough, chances are they will stay in Amber/Emerald/Sapphire. People have different learning curves, and what takes you a year to learn could take someone else a day, and vice versa. No arbitrary benchmark would guarantee that people would be “experienced” enough for your standards.

Certainly not, but im not trying to be elistist or stop lower ranked players from playing ranked.
I somehow knew this would require additional explanation, so maybe this will help to clarify what im actually trying to say:

For some reason most revs simply have no idea what they are doing. Its a young class, it works different to what most people are used to and, despite being very strong, its not completely easy to play.
Most revs I can take out on my thief using little more than basivenom, autoattack, good dodges and double essence sap.
However there are a couple of revs played on pro level, I usually run if even I see them.
They are virtually immortal and can down you in seconds. Its ofc above average players, but the potential to be op is undoubtly there.
And even the bad ones can decide a fight if you miss a single precision strike, unrelenting assault or surge of the mists. Thats what most people are most concerned with.

Last but not least: this 90% condi meta everybody talks about…where is it actually?
The meta+great builds on MB contains 3 condi necros (and not everything is necro+they can be countered by every decent composition), 1 condi mesmer and 1 rarely played condi rev.
6/9 classes dont have condi builds for ‘meta’ purpose, even though individuals might decide condi works for them.

CC is outta hand, hard cc especially and aoe cc. One of the main problems is that gw2 has no mechanic in place to prevent stunlocking. A dimishing returns for example.
Increasing stability access would not be a solution. Actually certain classes already have wayyy to good access to stability. It would only cause moar power creep.

I did not directly say only dragons should participate in ranked.
I only implied it would be better for all.
But I do say that if people would join ranked in order to level their pvp rank, not to compete (what unfortunately a lot of em already do),
noone benefits. Neither experienced players, who want interesting matches, nor new players who need to be given the space and time to explore the gamemode.

I believe a lot of players are starting to join ranked too soon. Given themselves over to a toxic and unhealthy enviroment of competition instead of enjoying their class, trying their own builds, learning the basics. The leagues made it worse: extra incentives, rewards for rank ups, legendary items. Badges that display your ‘skill’.
I played about 1200 games unranked before I felt secure enough with my class to compete and I would do it again. I still learn from every game, even unranked which ive gotten back to in order to play my thief.
Unranked or hotjoin is not a noob-ground, its simply where you should spent your time to learn. Ranked is not what every PvP player must do all the time, it should be only for those who actually want to compete and who are actually capable of doing so.

But somehow we got the point where only ranked is even considered if you wish to accomplish anything, regardless that what you accomplish is worthless.
By now every half-decent player is at least in ruby. Did you ever think about that? Ruby is the 4th division of 6. It should be the place where you can get with some skíll and a lot of hard work. Only the best should be able to achieve diamond or higher. Season 1 partially worked like that.

Long story short: Unranked should be for everyone who enjoys PvP. Ranked should be for everyone who is really good at PvP and has a lot of experience in it.
The PvP rank is just a way to measure, not your skill, but your experience.
If you havent even played 500 matches minimum, why the hell would you want to play ranked anyways? Even if you are a natural and succeed, why would you? Its simply not what you should be doing.

It definetly lacks unhindered combatant and shortbow. Good for fighting but you cant run around as much. And of course you lack access to stealth.
As we all know those are the two assets that define the very essence of the thief class. Without it your build is just completly inferior.

Urejt.5648:

Azukas.1426:

You do know that a thief can’t 1v1 any class in this meta with exception to a Reaper with hardly any life-force

Staff thief with paladin amul wins every duel exept dp thief and condi mes, but it takes time due to medicore dmg but huge sustain

And guardians and a half-decent rev and engis that can autoattack.
And probably some druids too. And a good elemntalist you wont kill, only survive.
I play that build a lot. Its better for dueling than most builds, and yes: I can win a lot of fights with it…but only as long as Im the better player.
That is pretty much what thief has become: You can make the class work as long as you are the most supreme entity on the playing filed. In that case you mightevenmaybe win duels.

What? That sounds like a most interesting bug. Can you please make a vid? That must look hilarious.

Sounds like it could get outta hand. By itself it would be alright, but unfortunately pvp noobs believe rank 0-80 means anything and want to get it.
Aka: all those who are on the ‘rank farm’ servers now would be in ‘ranked’
I dont know if we want this. I’d rather tolerate people aquiring a meaningless rank without working for it.
Makes them feel better about themselves and keeps them out of my games. Everyone is happy.
Those who are not dragons / played at least 900 games should stay out of ranked anyways. Unfortunately gw2 players think shiny rewards and badges are more important than competitiveness. (I dont say <80s are all bad players, but they definetly lack experience)

Depends on what specific problem you are talking about, there are two I know of:
-Cant advertise the party at all. Usually at least one of your party members can. If not it should work if you leave fotm and do it from lions arch.
-Cant change the description. Have to advertise the party first, then change it. If people join a fresh 4-man 77,67,56 without waiting a few seconds, its their own fault.

There are also parties in the lfg that are advertised, but you cant join. I dont know where that comes from, if it still exists or how you can fix it.

that baby stealing dingo.7216:

I like to go mid because I can get there faster than anyone else on my team. I can almost always cap it before enemy gets there.

After capping it, I agree with Asrat that rushing the enemy effs them up. Shadow step onto their platform and meet them as they approach. (if you have a trap or two to lay on the platform, so much the better.)

As Asrat explained, you give the enemy a poor choice between dealing with you off-point or ignoring you to de-cap mid. You can go far if they ignore you, or pick one of them off if they don’t. At a minimum you can deal some damage and hold them off for a few while your teammates get to mid.

Fullcapping mid before they even get there? I mean: i havent tried it out, and if it works on any map it would be nifhel, but that seems to be a little too fast, even for a thief.
Are your enemies using movement skills in the matchups you are doing this? Or are they just running?
If I would try to replicate this: any specific suggestions? Are you taking the stairs or do you have a teleport spot to get up to the keep? Do you have to triple dodge and SoA?

Usually when I use the term sb I am referring to the (thieves) shortbow. But that might just be because im a thief.
Shoutbow is also an option, which would be a ranger(former warrior) build.
Other than that…Ive done a quick read through build names and some of the commonly used traits and skills, but nothing ‘SB’ jumped at me. Could be possible I missed it tho.
Some context would be nice.

Well right now they are on leagues, skyhammer and khylo.
For the past: Well, the developement team mainly made HoT. I suppose a lot of what they do we will never see.

Just an example: If one of my coworkers comes up with the idea to introduce a new movement element named ‘gliding’, I would gather my team and ask: can we use this?
Probably followed by months of try and error.
I dont say they neccessarely considered gling for pvp, but i’d guess in the development process of HoT there were a lot of ideas that would have to be considered/tested for pvp. Probably PvP even was the reason to reject certain content suggestions.

Hansen.3264:

This is copy Paste from other post but really good#

Hope its ok i uses it Asrat

Np. Nice to hear someone liked it.

You might also be interested in:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Statistics-on-your-last-10-games/

All in all I second your opinion: most ranked matches this season I won, and most of them would not have been much different if I performed significantly worse.
So I rarely got a feeling of ‘carrying’ my team, 1 or 2 times I rather felt carried myself.
But occasionally there are still challenging and fun matchups that are decided by 2 seconds on a beastkill.

Ok, since you wanted feedback:

1)It is almost impossible to say anything about your gameplay if you decide to randomly speed up or slow down parts of a fight.
If you want to make a vid to show off how good you are, or for entertainement, thats perfectly fine, but you cant really expect feedback on your performance in it.
The sound is also important. Again: if you want people to watch the vid, a song will do fine. If you want feedback, the original game audio is important.

2) If you want people to judge your performance you should choose a match where you dont domintae. Everyone can play well if their team is superior.
For example you spent a lot of time sitting on close, even capped it with two people. That works well as long as your team can hold the other fights without you, but for an even matchup, you would need to roatate much more (and probably do).

3) Its kinda hard to see how well you fought (speed again ^^). I realised some good moves including portal and blink. At one point youve spent a lot of time autoattacking against a projectile destruction field. Another time you were stunned and took a little too long to break it.
It also looked to me like your general illusion uptime wasnt very high.
Most of the ‘really good’ mesmers I fought have at least two of them up and running all the time, and that whilst constantly shattering something. No idea how they do that tho.

Thats really all I can say here, mostly negative I guess, but thats just because im better at giving negative feedback, not because there wasnt anything good to say. ^^

STIHL.2489:

If you use Skill 1 as opposed to 4 (or other healing skills) you will die soon enough.

However, I could see a (5) Skill, as opposed to just “Defeat” maybe make it “Noble Sacrifice” where you can heal everyone around to full, but you die instantly for it (Druid), or you Trigger a Super Nova Upon Death (Tempest), or When you give up your Life to Rally Everyone Around you (Dragonhunter).

This could really be a great idea. I mean anyone trying to kill you should still get credit if you use this ability, but it would be cool if it did more then just “Ok you Win”

Also keeping it to Elite Spec would lessen the nub mistakes of people accidentally hitting it. If they get elite spec, they should know their character at least a little bit.

But in all in all, great base idea, something that could be picked up and ran with!

You dont play pvp, do you?

But even in pve its a horrible idea to give it only to elitespecs. They are already mandatory (and btw it would have to be reinvented for every elitespec to come)
Your skill ideas are also much too powerful. Downed skills are intended to help you stay alive for a little while and hopefully tag a target, they are not meant to actually do something, and thats good as it is.
Imagine you would play a fractal like this: your group wipes, but a guard can just ress everyone else back up and they can ress the guard…

The idea itself is interesting. I dont really approve of letting you opponents bleed out. I usually give them a chance to get stomped and let them bleed if they deny it.
But it could be too strong as a tactical option. The timing of a death is really important. You could win teamfights by killing yourself, Im not sure if this is how it should be.

Ive had some…not exactly lags, but rather strange issues, not in open world but in certain pvp maps and 1 or 2 fractals.
Turned out it was related to me using the 64x client, tho I have literally no idea how that could cause such a problem.
Just saying: it might be something completely different from what you expect.

-Is it lag or your pc? Usually you can tell the difference from observing what your game does.
-Did you try to repair you client? Maybe its some corrupted object not properly loaded or smthng.
-Does it happen on solo fractals/groups opened by you?
The UI tells us we are on the server of the opener, dont know if that actually means anything tho.

kitten . So much salt concealed as irony.

It will likely come at the end of the season (+0-2 days) so april 18-19.
We can not know how much the balance patch will contain, but it has to adress the major issues. They dont have much of a choice if they wish to keep their community alive for another whole season.
There can also be several more, they only dont patch mid-season.

http://dulfy.net/2016/03/05/gw2-reddit-developer-ama-summary/
Not too many details on how they intend to move away from swamp unfortunately.

Furajir.3815:

Warriors, Guards and Thieves have NEVER been meta. Ever. Never ever. Less than 0 times. It’s about time Anet realizes that some classes have been on top for far too long. Speaks volumes.

Sorry, poes law in effect. Srs or not?

Fivedawgs.4267:

Wouldn’t this amulet be OP on druids? Currently most are using mended which doesn’t have toughness. I wonder what would happen if this ever through.

They would miss the precision. Rangers cant be full support/heal, the pet’s+weapons passive pressure is a big part of their strenght.
Boon duration, although helpful, is also not as beneficial as it is for ele’s.

Supreme.3164:

Yannir.4132:

@Supreme Did you even read the whole comment? Quoting myself here: “Ele is in a good place when it comes to boons” That does not include any other ele aspects.

Cementing the healbot role even more is far from being a good suggestion

I agree on that. Instead of building up on that op, cancerous support bunker, that i can not believe anyone ever truly enjoyed playing, we should rather try to give back to the ele some fun builds based on movement, damage and combos.

The amulet itself seems fine. At least not op. But I do believe most people would go with toughness. It usually scales better than healing power and is important to prevent a stunlocking-burst.

You think infuse light is powerful?^^

I believe Jana’s method is common sense. For the more single target and up close weapons you use blood for the extra heal. For aoe and range you use fire for greater decimation potential.

Darknicrofia.2604:

Asrat.2645:

I dont get why people keep coming in here and make fun of it.
It might not be the best build or the best description of a build but its playable.
If this person comes up on their own with something that used to be meta, that is impressive. Coming up with new builds and having the bravery to go public with it should never get this kind of feedback.
Either you are wrong and others can help you to correct your style. (not just ridicule you)
Or you are right and make a way for a new meta. I remember not too long ago, during this season, elementalists and mesmers were thought underpowered, it was only because someone tried out something new, that they belong to the confirmed ‘op’ stuff now.

And finally Ive seen people say a lot, literally a lot more stupid things on the pvp forums and they even get support…

we’re making fun of the OP for grandiose over the top claim of a ground breaking discovery on a build that has existed since probably long before he even first stepped foot in a pvp match, a worse version of the burst burning build at that

Thats my point. The op ‘came up’ with a former meta build, obviously without knowing that build existed. Thats not bad at all.