Im perfectly fine with the class being very punishing. If i screw up and get caught in a dh trap and die of it, ok. No problem. I make a mistake, I die: alright, thats kinda why I play thief.
My main issues are those:
1)Even if you make no mistakes, you cant really win a whole lot of fights. Even the unavoidable passive pressure is enough to force me to disengage or perhaps even kill me.
2)The class should be rewarding. You make mistakes, you die. You make no mistakes: they die.
But it doesnt work that way. If I manage to kill some1 its not because I landed a good vault, its because my opponent was too stupid to dodge it. And of cousre some classes can just heal all damage I deal, even if they allowed me to stand right next to them and autoattack.
I know some people are fine with the rotate only role we have. I dont get that to be honest. It sucks hard. And even if you make it work on highest level, pro league proves us, that it is not enough against equally skilled players.
Anyways, I find all these people wanting to ‘quit gw2’ a litte overly dramatic. If things dont work out for you, you fight to make them better, you dont just turn around and look another way.
For me working on ways to improve a game has become a huge part of the fun. Gw2 is probably one of the main reasons, I havent joined any political organization yet ^^
We had this in another thread a while ago. I dont think so.
D/d is one of the best build concepts for skipping. And one of the few that allows you to stay on point while doing it.
It is also a direct counter for some of the most popular builds out there. Like condi reaper (reason why I still use UC over LT) or power Shiro.
You can not really do the typical thief’s jobs, cause you lack the burst to effectively +1, but you can win or at least hold out a lot of 1v1 scenarios, and you can stay in teamfights for an extended time period.
Ist not perfect, but it is strong. At least for everything up to ruby.
Well. You miss gear, therefore damage and agony Infusion slots.
But more importantly: You can make up for your Level by being a good and experienced player…but how is your team supposed to know that you can?
If someone of a low Level joins, you will naturally assume, that they dont even know, how fractals work and go in their with their first char, as some people do for dungeons during leveling.
Soo: You are, in fact inferior in what you can do. And you seem even worse than you actually are. A nice Team wont ever just kick you, but you shouldnt be suprised if they are wary of you either.
Fractals are not an appropiate place for lvling. You can do it, but you should not. At least not with pugs. If you have a group and they are ok with it: no Problem.
But if a pug group chooses they dont want to have a low Level to ‘carry’, dont blame them.
Some of those Sound extremely interesting. Extremely op, but that is something that could be worked on.
For starters:
Critical strikes#1 sounds pretty good.
Deadly arts: ‘trickery#2’. I like the idea of not having to deal with retaliation. But maybe its a bad idea to invent a counter to our counter…
Shadow arts: decrease the cooldown of deception abilities by 60?% (maybe merge with concealed defeat)
Acrobatics: gain endurance (static amount) if you hit a marked target.
Trickery#1 but only ‘x1,5’ meaning 1 initiative/2sec or perhaps even less.
A lot of what you ask for is pretty powerful. (a lot of what I ask for too^^) I really want us to become a strong dueling class again, but we have to keep in mind, that a lot of the op choices will probably be nerfed soon. We should ask for reasonable buffs, not for powercreep. Also since we are able to choose our opponent, we can never be completely unbeatable in 1v1
-You should decide wether you are running a power or a condition build. The daredevil runes are useless without ferocity. The sigils would be better used for condition Duration.
I realize you are trying some sort of power/condi hybrid here, but that wont work, Your mainly beneficial damage source for power builds (AA) is too dangerous to use, you will rather spam death blossom.
-You apply only one conditon. Even if you constantly reapply it, every good non-power-shiro should be able to cleanse it. By not taking DA you miss out on a great deal in potential poison damage.
-The distracting daggers and pressure striking…you sacrifice a trait and a utility for a hard-to-land interrupt and some torment.
I wouldnt say this build wont work at all. But it will always be weaker than a ‘pure’ d/d acro-condi build.
If you want evasion and power, better go with S/d. Or staff
Valkyrie jumper could be something for you. Even tho ist kinda ‘last season’
I completed the achievement, but I can help you out if you, by any means, cant find a group. I enjoyed the fractals and Im basically looking for an excuse to do them again ^^. Cant really play the next 1-2 days tho.
This is not definitve, but as a general advice:
D/d pve: zerker
D/d pvp: sage or carrion
Everything else is still possible, and people do it. However I would recommend you to stick with this formula unless you know what you are doing and why you are doing it.
Well we basically counter necros in many ways. And mesmers? well, they cant deal with stealth, sustained pressure and people avoiding their bursts. Try fighting an ele.
On topic: I would still stick to the concept of masively increased endurance regeneration. First: it is more active gameplay, second: If your enemy keeps up the pressure, you have to keep evading and cant attack back, third: It is potentially much stronger in the hands of an experienced player.
For the stealth part: well, either initiative or severely reduced cd on deception skills.
If I keep thinking about it: the ‘mark’ mechanic could become baseline, but does not really do anything.
You could then add traits to all lines that work with that ‘mark’. A stealth enchantement from shadow arts, an endurance enchantement from acrobatics, ini regen from trickery….and so on.
Every trait taken increases either the cooldown or the ‘detection range’ so you cant amass them and specializing in one or maybe two is more beneficial.
While the tone is a bit rough, I have to agree with the general sentiment.
The offered “solution” by TC is nothing more than a fancy “play the way I want you to play”.
Fractals have very serious issues, but forcing players into certain fractals or behaviors (especially after an easier system was in place) is just plain wrong. Either arenanet does a complete fractal revamp, or not.
Main issue for fractals is and remains that most of them are stale content over 3 years old. No amount of “fixing” is going to make current fractals more interesting or enjoyable. Sure, they are great the first hundred or twohundered times. Once you hit over 2 thousand fractals run though, it is a chore you just want to get over with asap.
The changes to fractals have been consistantly to make grouping easier. I remember back when fractals got introduced you needed people of similar rank to rank up (not to mention it was character progress, not account). All the changes to personal fractal rank increasing were done for quality of life of the playerbase.
The change from 1 fractal rank per fractal instead of fractal set was already a huge decrease in time commitment. You don’t see any old vets running around demanding people get downgraded. Any step back within this system would rightfully cause a lot of hate.
Best suggestion I would give is as follows: If you come up with ideas for improving the game, make sure they don’t endup alienating or discriminating against players. Improvements should bring quality of life features with them, not the opposite.
See? that is constructive criticism! Not focussing on what I said but on what I said.
So now: I see the point you are trying to make here. Ist a good one.
But think about it this way: It is called ‘personal reward level
The idea behind a leveling system is to progressively unlock content as you play it.
If you could just join people for cof exp farm from lvl 1 and skip the entirety of ’regula’ leveling, would you consider that healthy for the game? (ToKs aside ^^)
Tell you this: I could remove the ‘every fratcal only participating in progression a maximum of 2 times’. That way people would be free to farm only their favourite fractals, but on an appropiate scale to simulate the progress of an actual leveling system.
The issue of fractal diversity might actually be better adressed with other tools.
‘sigh’
I am not ‘poisoning the well’… I am just trying to make you realize, that you are not trying to discuss, you are trying to fight.
That is a fact, believe it or not, I really dont care. But from your very first sentence on this topic you have been acting extremely agressive.
I have been thinking about your main point. That I was ‘forcing’ people to play content they dont like.
Ive came to the conclusion, that you are right in a way:
If people decide they want to get involved in higher fractals, I want to force them to work their way up there. Yes. But neither am I forcing them to do so, nor am I forcing people to play only the fractals they hate. They have to play 50 fractals of their choice, if they can not possibly find 50 fractals they like, fotm is simply the wrong place.
Look: we do not have to agrre on this. I can have my opinion, you can have yours. Í base my decision on the following belief: the easiest path is not neccessarely the best.
If you disagree with that, fine.
You make some good points, you are certainly able to properly voice your opinion, probably more so than I am.
What im most concerned with is you still actively twisting everything I say. Yes, you are in fact purposely missinterpreting my Statements. You are trying to make my quotes serve your cause.
For example: if I am referring to the lfg being empty in a certain window of time, and you talk some unrelated bs about how you do not play in these time windows…I dont quite get it. Your response to that was completely unrelated and you just tried to discredit me at all costs.
All in all: I rly enjoy in engaging in conversation. But it is no fun if you try to turn it into a quote war. And finally: you say it is my Goal to make people run fractals the way I want.
Big suprise. I have an idea, how I think fractals could become better, so I want people to do it. What exactly on this Forum serves another purpose? That is the Point in constructive Feedback: you think about, what you would like better, and propose changes, how to make it work.
I never said, everybody has to like it. Critisize me if you want, you are welcome actually.
But please stay on Topic and try to be constructive yourself. Offer me alternatives.
Dont just say:‘Im fine with the current system, you are wrong’ That is not helpful in any way.
(I have to work with an incredibly awful auto-correct right now. I hope, this is remotely readable)
Ahhrg, boons. Protection. stability? What are we? Revenants?
Event tho I said I wouldnt, ive spent some more thought into it: the ‘mark’ should also be removed if 0 Targets are in range. meaning: if you screw up, despite your powers and disengage, you get punished.
Icd about 40-50 seconds, so you cant finish them of one by one as they come.
Im not sure, if this is precisely the right way to go. But I sure like the idea, of boosting our capabilities based on the target we fight.
Meaning we could regain our ‘godlike’ status for duels (well, maybe not godlike, since its unhealthy for the game as whole) without changing anything at all for teamfights.
It is also a good attempt, to weaken the targets offensive not defensive, so they still have a chance to hold their ground, until help arrives.
Nice thinking here, a lot of potential.
But try working out some of the details. For example I would not make it a trait. Cause that trait would become a must-have for all builds that want to fight.
If somehow possible I would try to implement something similar in the class mechanics, but in a more indirect way.
I’d love to try and help you developing this, but I wont be having much time in the coming days.
You could also think about drastically increasing our endurance and ini regeneration if fighting only one target. That would fit the concept, fit our class better since active defense>passive defense. And also allow for better use of f.E. stealth against single targets. And most ini skills dont deal much damage, so it would still mostly be a defensive boost.
Ok. Now for a first analysis.
1 in 4 for people visiting this thread votes. Thats not bad at all, keep it up.
Im a little disappointed in nobody trying to explain or discuss their opinion but here we go.
Now we are far from having a relevant sample, 20 people cant represent the playerbase, but certain tendecies are astounding.
1 in 20 likes the current system. I did expect that option to be the least liked, nobody is happy with the status quo, but I did not expect 1 in 20. This is already a pretty clear sign. Im sure the guys n gals at anet had reasons for goin with the current schedule, but appearently parts of the playerbase dont like it.
Im also suprised with the other options having equal numbers of supporters. I thought we would have one or two clear leaders. Might be hard to find a proper alternative.
Finally what I didnt expect at all, was the high amount of votes for ‘constant major changes’
This is undoubtly the fastest way to achieve balance, but it would effectively mean to use the live servers as proving ground for experimental testing.
Its interesting, that quite a few people are fine with that.
Keep it up pls, remember: Vote or die
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mordrem_Researcher
This perhaps?
If you stop viewing this thread as some kind of personal attack against you, I will happily join you in discussing.
Your initial post mostly looks like you are trying to get into a fight. I dont know, why you feel offended, but you obviously do.
Soo, first of all you appear to be thinking of me as some kind of elitist.
My friend list is full of people, that joined me with no clue, and that I have been giving advice to.
I find much joy in helping out others, that does not mean, that im happy if people make me climb on trees, because they dont know how to dodge.
My main point about this is: people should learn to play fotm properly, but they should do so in the lower levels. Thats what the progressive system is for: You play your way up to the harder ones and, by doing so, practice.
If they just mindlessly farm their swamps day in and day out, they wont learn anything.
And you cant honestly say, that you enjoy havin a soldier-builded warrior in 95, who keeps running upstairs to trigger the pots. (yes, that actually happened to me)
@2/3: I never claimed to have taken a statistically significant sample. I just happen to know people, who literally hated fractals, but I kept dragging them along until we played 45 – 59 in one night. That was the point, where I convinced them.
@1: For a 94 you have to wait an average 1-3 hours. And that is on prime time. Dont tell me you have no problem finding groups. 75+ lfg is empty from 1am to 6 pm utc.
@4: I never said hardcore. I said semi hardcore. And that means: any casual who is commited to make the effort to play fractal on high level can do it. But you should not be doing it without making any effort at all. But let me be honest here: people who are not showing even the slightest interest in challenging content should not be doing 50+ fractals. And that means: no 3 quick dailies, that can be completed by every noob either. Fractals should be open to everyone, but only to everyone who wants to play them. Not to people who are just looking for quick money. The reward should only be a motivational bonus.
And srsly: its not like the game would force you to play fractals at all.
@5: I never said I had any proof of this upgrading both quantity and quality. But think about it logically:
-better rewards=more players
-longer/harder progression=more experienced players.
Get it? And it would most certainly not make things worse.
@6: Ok now…how exactly is that even remotely related to my topic? This about working with the frl, not about possible attempts to fix fractal diversity. I dont deny, that more and more enjoyable fractals can help solving the problem, but its a little out of place here.
@7) Most of this I have adressed above. Now, what would happen, if I forced them to play the harder fractals? Thats right, they would get better. People are not ‘noobs’ by default. The ‘skill’ in a video game is not genetically predetermined. Its something you have to work on. Something you have to learn.
And about forcing…My proposal would require people to play at least 50 of the existing 100 fractals. If you hate half of the existing fractals…perhaps you shouldnt do them, should you? You dont have to play game content you dont enjoy, but in that case you should not get the associated rewards either.
For example im forver done doing silverwastes, Ive spent so much time there, I cant stand it any more. In exchange I make a lot less gold. fair is fair.
Reading through my own answer, I guess I sound just as agitated and angry as you did. So I just wanted to assure you that I am not.(Im actually too tired to be upset^^) Its just hard to to express this in a proper way, especially since you effectively twisted some of my statements and I feel like I have to try and set it right.
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http://strawpoll.me/7169535
Just thinking about, how often balance patches should be deployed. Dont know, if this has been asked before, if so: here we go again.
Pls take a few minutes to think about this before you answer.
The current system gives the meta the time it needs to adapt (see: mesmer) and prevents overeacting to a problem, that only requires players to get used to.
On the other hand, it means that balance problems will stay in the game for an extremely long time, ruining the fun of a lot of people and causing extreme frustration amongst those, who keep coming up with attempts to fix it.
Personally I think, small changes can never break the game entirely as a bigger patch would, and regular updates allow even the smallest imbalances to be revisited in time.
But i’d like to hear your opinions on this.
There are obviously pros and cons for all possible points.
Pls keep it civil and constructive. Lets get our dear devs an overview, about what the community wants, as well as maybe some input, on how to make everyone happy here.
Its kinda funny watching necros laying staff skills all around them. It only means free escapist absolution procs.
Outside of teamfights I cant say I have much problems with aoe.
Its big red circles, at least you can avoid them. Some other skills are much harder to play against.
Sure, there are situations where excessive aoe can be annoying, but it usually wont decide the fights.
The poison is really weird, though. It seemed to be in sync with vuln gains from Deadly Trapper, but there’s no way to apply poison that quickly from traps.
I believe I can explain that. Look at how constantly the posion and chill is reapplied. I think, that thief might have been using reaper of kittening grenth.
Nothing sry. We should not try to stay in the middle of a team fight. We move in and move out, we do it wrong: we die.
I’d glady give that position to the rev, if they boosted my dueling capabilities in exchange.
The point is, there wasnt really more he could do. If we watch him, we surely can see opportunitied in unguarded points, but its the pro league we are talking here.
For example when he and that other player were facing two guys at far, another fight at close, mid free. If he left the fight, his teammate would be down in seconds, and the enemy would still have moved fast enough to deny a decap.
You surely can outrotate most scrubs at thief, but not in the pro league. Both teams keep moving all around the map all the time. Pretty much everyone plays the way, thieves do in casual games.
And winning the teamfight is way too important. We saw that in the first game. A team didnt even attempt to recap there close for a long time, because it was more important, to win the teamfight and gain momentum.
That is interesting. It doesnt exactly seem legit, but a hacker would probably not use conditions.
The conditions you have at the moment of death:
5 stacks of confusion: bewildering ambush
Cripple and initial knockdown: tripwire
Immobilize: Needle trap
Poison: needle trap, serpents touch, dagger training.
Bleeding: needle trap, caltrop dodge, probably either a sigil or at least one death blossom (at the point where 3 stacks got applied at once), the normal stacks can be explained with you staying in at least one pile of caltrops.
The vulnerability is a proof, you got hit by several traps.
The chill is kinda weird, but it could be a sigil.
Now, it is possible, that you got hit by a hacker, in wich case you should not blame it on the thief class, but I have another suspicion:
Im no expert for wvw, but is it possible, with your specific game settings, that someone who teleported from the high range of a shadow trap, would not be rendered within the first few seconds? That seems like the most logical explanation.
In that case your opponent was not invisible, just not rendered.
Its a kitten shame I cant see the combat log tho.
Edit: rewatching at higher quality 0:12 looks less and less like a dancing dagger. Perhaps your opponent simply never attacked you directly like the others said.
(edited by Asrat.2645)
PvP
We are not exactly bad, but there is a lot of powercreep going on that makes us look bad in comparsion.
There is also a certain class that can do everything we do but better.
And some of us are unsatisfied with our current role. We cant really fight, we can only run around.
Pve
We are one of the strongest choices for dps, and we feature a good sustainability. Yet we are more like a ‘void-filler’ for hardcore or semi hardcore pve. The lack of team support is real.
Finally there are a lot of people unhappy with aspects of our class in general. Like weapon diversity, stealth viability etc.
It works alright. Im perfectly fine in fractals up to 100, have no problems in the open world and also solo’ed everything storywise so far. Actually I did not understand why so many people had problems with the hot end fight. Appearently it was really hard to solo with any class but thief. I was upset I needed a second try whilst other people spent hours and hours.
As another thief player: Im not exactly sure, what the ops intention is, but: the traps are not a problem. If there is an easy-to-avoid burst, a glassy class should not survive it.
We dodge, we live, we dont dodge, we die. Fair is fair.
If the dh was any other class but with the traps, a thief would have no problem to fight them(if we didnt have a general problem with fighting that is). Unfortunately you have been our nemesis for a long time, and even that is ok. Counter mechanics are part of the game, and if we should ever get buffed to the point of viability again, there needs to be someone, who can sit on a point and stop us.
Its also pretty ridicoulus seeing guards and thieves asking to nerf each other. We all need some serious love for our class, if we want to play it on competitive level.
We should like…start a movement together. I’ll go get the warriors, you guys think of a good name. ^^
(edited by Asrat.2645)
Not at all. Your main should be, whatever you enjoy most. You can always build your alts for fotm or efficency.
Guys..this thread is 21 days old. We have a showcase for this ^^
I just stepped by again to apologize. My last message was rightfully removed by an admin. I was mostly trying to make a joke, but I do understand, how it could have been viewed as offensive.
(Necros are op) But not op in a way like eles or scrappers. And as a thief you are one of the professions that actually can fight necros pretty well. Dont even wanna now, how you want to pull it of without UC and EA tho.
I played a match with one of those d/d condi thieves. Some how some way he didn’t score a single point until the final 2 mins of the match.
How is that possible….
That is very possible as a thief if your team suc…is slightly in disadavantage
You mainly try to seek out fights where your team is loosing and help them, but if your teammate somehow dies before you get there…or dies regardless of the scenario being 2v1
You want to rotate and decap, but if they can always spare that one player from a teamfight to def far and your team still doesnt win mid, you cant.
A d/d thief may also spend a lot of time skipping. No cap, no kill, just attention.
Now on topic: you know, If you have a hard fight at mid, and several players from both teams are down and a the next stomp will decide the entire fight?
So you get some stability, start stomping, and the second you hand decends, one of your teammate thinks, it is now a great time, to burst out the ultimate over 9k knockback (edit:launch) skill?
It is also great to loose matches, because three people try to fight one ele at close.
(edited by Asrat.2645)
Despite the unviable build the awful grammar and the ‘dictatorship of a gaming company’ (srsly, where do these people keep coming from?)
the matchmaking is flawed or completely broken, depends on who you are asking.
Given the amount of complaints they should be well aware of the problem and are most likely working on ways to fix it.
Unfortunately arenanet has made the very questionable decision, not to change anything in the midst of a running season, so you will have to wait a few more weeks.
Until then I would heavily recommend you to stay out of ranked, because if you are in the mm-hell its hard to get out. the game considers you a bad player, and therefore will keep grouping you with others that ‘match you skill level’
If I remember the official response right, that applies only to your own team. Your opponents will be selected from the same division, but not neccessarely according to your teams average skill.
Oh, and playing outside of ranked doesnt say anything. I can run a zerker thief in unranked and still win my 1v1s.
Nah, mesmer has become too important. It is not as easy to play or powerful as a reaper, but they are extremely useful to counter the opness of other classes. Moa is the best if not the only way to easily shut down an ele.
Reapers are great in lower and mid tiers, but they really start to weaken.
A lot of players have been getting used to them, more cleanses and aoe cleanses are being run. And if you focus them in a teamfight they fall pretty fast.
Don’t care, will not be watching after seeing the elitist attitudes of most of the pro league players with very few exceptions.
Im not a friend of elitism either but…thats kinda what pro leaque is for. Por leaque means maximazation. Pro leaques are the raids of pvp.
If you want bro leagues, you should probably look for community-driven tournaments.
To the op: seems pretty reasonable. I dont think, we will se many rangers in place of necros. Maybe in place of scrappers, but I dont really expect that either.
And the teams who use a dh over anything else wont last long…
I have absolutely no problem with the revenant having higher sustain than a thief.
But in exchange, it should not offer the same options in damage and mobility either and exceed in boon application.
Revenant is basically like a scrapper. They can have their cake and eat it too. They can deal damage without having to sacrifice sustainability.
If you want to build your revenant as a damage dealer, that is fine. But if you move that damage dealer in the midst of combat and get focussed, you should suffer. Not just: ‘30% (or whatever it in actuality is) damage reduction’, 3 jail escape cards (Facet of light, Soothing bastion, crystal hibernation), another 50% plain damage reduction, basically immunity to all cc and, last but not least, a high amount of stamina and dodges.
See what I mean? You should totally be allowed to have some of it, but not all. You will eventually have to make sacrifices and hard decisions, what skill/trait you should choose.
Its probably a flaw in the whole class concept/ the invocation mechanic.
You invocate a legendary thief: you should be able to do everything the thief does.
You invocate a legendary dwarf: you should be a tank.
So either you get over yourself and make the ‘invocated’ version a substantially weaker version of the original class. Or you truly allow only one invocation at a time. Meaning: If you are on shiro, passives related to the dwarf have no effect.
I actually like that…If they did this: making the invocations strong but onesided and exclusive, so you can swap between completely different ‘styles’ during combat. I would probably roll a revenant.
Theoretically its useful, but in actuality: The skill feels very akward to use.Something about the animation, it doesnt ‘flow’
If I need an evade and can spare the initiative, I somehow rather end up with vault, since it also deals damage/opens a gap
If I want a quick denial of an attack, I rather use #4
I use it sometimes, against telegraphed attacks, that I have to dodge but dont want to waste a dodge on. Thats all.
Things would be different, if the travel distance was significantly increased, more like a withdraw. Or at least like an unhindered combattant. But that could also become too strong.
pve or pvp? There is a huge difference in power and they way, balance is setup. For example necromancer is considered to be the ultimate condinuke for pvp and fairly op. But hardly has a place in fractals. An then again can take a role in raids.
As long as you stick to casual pve (fractals/open world) you should not be too concerned. You can pretty much play everything.
You will have to move away from the ‘ranged’ idea tho. Most teams dont like, if people dont stay in the melee stack, cause it makes mobs run around.
Warrior is indeed a good way to take some damage, deal some damage and help your team.
Rangers, guards, necros are farily easy to play. Thief requires some dodging, mesmer is mostly support, rev is a little more complex but still easy enough. Engineer and ele are really the ones, who require complex rotations to achieve the best performance.
Ok first of all: there are a lot, srsly a lot of bad revenants I see running around. Or maybe not bad but decent. But the very few good players I meet are untouchable (not as much as an ele or scrapper, but those deserve theit own nerfs), deal high damage without much counterplay and are extremely mobile.
So, what exactly is op about the revenant? When I first read through their traits and skills, I made a ‘wtf.txt’ document and listed everything I could not believe. The main thing is: they are not op in a way like reaper or ele or scrapper, but literally everything they have features no weakness. They try to be a thief in damage and mobility, a guard in blocks and stability and an engi in cc. Condi removal might be the only place where they lack. Everything else was designed as: no counterplay pls.
I seem to have lost my list, so I will try to reconstruct it.
I do not propose to just nerf everything I list here. But these are the skills, that seem
a) pretty powerful
b) flawed in design
So at least they should be looked at.
I would love to see other choices get buffed instead, to promote a gameplay based on skill and active play instead of uncounterables and passives.
-Rampant vex. Not particulary strong but literally a thief trait x3 (better condi, longer condi, every weapon)
-Empty vessel. Thats a lot of stunbreak in one trait. It would be ok, if it wasnt a minor choice.
-Roiling mists and manical presence. One of them would be ok, not both. If you dont take precision stats, you should not crit. That is that.
-Malicious reprisal. The icd makes it somewhat ok, but again: this is nothing but avoiding counterplay, especially when combined with cruel repercussion. If your foe Uses a block skill, you should not get some passive effect, that rewards you for hitting them anyways.
-Assassins annihilation. Strong skill, no doubt. Would probably be ok, if the rest gets tuned down. But also one of the skills, that is a punch in the face for every thief to see it on another class.
-Retribution. The whole traitline is awful. Nobody told them to avoid passive effects I think.
-Unwavering avoidance. No way. Simply no way. Stability gained so easy is just plain wrong. And enchanced bulwark makes it unbearable. EB would be ok without this trait. But the ‘synergy’ is completely broken.
-Dwarven battle training: drastically reduces the impact of one of the best conditions to counter powerbuilds.
-Eye for an eye. Im not being completely fair here. Each and every of these passive counters hould be removed.
-Versed in stone…Nothing to say here.The skill itself has counterplay, the trait takes that away. And adds yet another passive defense. why?!
-Radiant revival. What do you do if someone is ressing? thats right, you cleave. What happens if you cleave on radiant revival? exactly. So you can choose to either let the rev ress in peace or speed up his process. The stability should make sure, he doent get interrupted by mistake…A trait that takes from you your usual options to counterplay without giving you an alternative.
-Soothing bastion…more passives…
-Enduring recovery. If this was not a revenant trait, it would grant you vigor.
-The overall damage reduction across all traitlines is also a bit high.
-Surge of the mists
We discussed that in another thread. High damage, no pre-casting animation, knockback, evade frame. all of that is too much. at least one of those attributes needs to go. Preferably the evade, to make a hard-to-use skill instead of a safe burst.
-Crystal hibernation. Remove the healing, allow movement. There is no reason at all, why this should be better than any block on for example warrior.
-Precision strike or unrelenting assault. Its ok if your sword gives you one hart hitting, hard to avoid skill. It can be dodged. But you should not have two.
I really cant say much about the utility skills. Most seem pretty reasonable, but I can not judge that, without playing rev myself.
-Just one: Riposting shadows. An extremely powerful skill by removing conditions, giving you two evades and being a no cd stunbreak.
Let me know if you heavily disagree on one of these, but pls keep in mind, that I would nerf every class if I could, and not only the rev.
This is one of the most promising attempts on good balance in my eyes.
Dont worry. If they do their homework this time, you will get nerfed, but everything else as well. And you will only have some unfair skills tuned down, not get beheaded like other parts of the current meta hopefully do.
I think I have some interesting addition: Unranked, which ive started to find much more enjoyable.
Over 450: 2
400 – 450: 1
300 – 400: 4
200 – 300: 1
100 – 200: 1
Less than 100: 1
And that was actually a bad one, I had quite a couple of much closer matches.
Ranked tho…Ive spent x<Ruby camping the enemies spawn, and I can assure you: it is not fun, even if you are benefiting.
The skill is just op because it has too many benefits in all directions.
Thats the point. A skill can be either safe to use, strong in effect or high in damage.
The more damage and cc a skill has the a) lower its range/radius/number of targets
b) less defense it offers c)longer it takes to cast.
That is called good balancing. Im completely fine with a strong but risky skill, or with a safe but soft skill. Rev has too many that try to be both. Staff 5 is one of them.
Compare this to pistol whip for example. Less damage, weaker cc, lower range, locks you in place to be hit, can be partially avoided even without a stunbreak, has high ressource cost.
Due to Pw being spammable, I do not expect staff 5 be nerfed down to that level, but it should be a little closer.
Why excatly do you want the recipe on each individual character? The result is account bound, if im not completely mistaken. You can craft them all on one char and then move them to others.
The purchase…I would guess, that you can reaqquire the recipe infinite times, if you are not in possession of one. Aka consume and rebuy. This is probably supposed to be some sort of failsafe in case you destroy the recipe, and giving you a second chance but not a third doesnt seem to make whole lot of sense.
Also…I wish there was only one ad Infinitum recipe. Everybody made it to unbound novadays.
English is not my native language. Furthermore: with all the time I already spend at this forums I honestly do not want to waste much time in discusson a topic like this.
I have to thank you actually: Ive done some research in the psychological reasons why people refuse to question their own position. And I find these sorts of topics extremely interesting. I would also ask you to not get offtopic. there is literally no connection between me being too lazy to correct typos and my ability to discuss the issue.
I was again referring to the stealth example, because it was your most prominent. And also the one that proves where you are undoubtly wrong.
The ‘downed teleport’ for example can be explained, but if you sincerely say, that you saw a downed player teleporting several times, that player was probably an actual hacker.
But…we can not tell this for sure. That is why we asked you again and again to provide any evidence for your claim. If you actually encounter hackers, that should not be hard to provide at all. Again: a single click on a hotkey and you are recording.
I like to see myself as a reasonable person. If you can provide me with evidence, I will gladly believe it, I will not try to to deny it based on ridiculous claims.
But unless you do so, everything you say here is just a way for you, to feel better about yourself, because it doesnt force you to correct flaws in your gameplay.
Because they’re “evidence” that dark forces are at work in the world and actively working to subvert the lives of normal people through nefarious means. Believe it or not this is an attractive idea for a lot of people who like to believe that their lives aren’t as good as they could be because of the forces gathered against them rather than their own failings.
Conspiracy theories also “prove” that the dark forces have been caught out doing something and haven’t covered their tracks as well as they think. They’ve made a mistake and the forces of good have revealed them for what they are.
It goes a step further because conspiracy theorists who have discovered “the truth” know that they’re part of an elite club who can see behind the lies and discern the facts from the deliberate fiction. Everyone else is just a mindless sheep to a conspiracy theorist who has managed to rise above the ignorant herd and discover what really likes behind the facade the evil have put up to fool the foolish.
A good conspiracy theory lets someone feel clever about their ability to spot the work of evil people while everyone else has the wool pulled over their eyes.
Source
The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which relatively unskilled persons suffer illusory superiority, mistakenly assessing their ability to be much higher than it really is. Dunning and Kruger attributed this bias to a metacognitive inability of the unskilled to recognize their own ineptitude and evaluate their own ability accurately. Their research also suggests corollaries: highly skilled individuals may underestimate their relative competence and may erroneously assume that tasks which are easy for them are also easy for others. Source
…one of the great secrets of human nature is that the one thing people want more than love, security, sex, chocolate or big-screen TV’s is to feel hard done by. Why? Because being hard done by is the kitten. Feeling hard done by is the sweetest of drugs. If you’re being persecuted — it must mean you’re doing the right thing, right? You get the mellow buzz of the moral high ground, but without arrogantly claiming it as your own. You get an instant, supportive community in a big dark scary world of such scope it may well literally be beyond rational human processing. When you are hard done by, you get purpose in a life where otherwise, you’d have to find your own. And when you ride that high, then no amount of logic, no pointing out that in actuality you and your beliefs are at a high point of popularity and influence for the last hundred years — is going to pry that sweet crack-pipe of moral indignation from your hands.
Source
I can not with any certainty say, that I am not influenced by any of the above effects. I can only try to observe and question myself at every given moment. Due to the fact, that I have some kind of inferiority complex and suffer from extreme self-hatred, I am less likely to be a victim of f.E. dunning kruger. It is ofc still possible.
Who used caps?
Honestly my friend, you have not brought a single valid argument over this entire discussion. All you do is trying to turn semantic mistakes of ours against us.
You have described a single scenario, that you have tried to ‘replicate’ unsuccesfully.
You can easily get 12 seconds of stealth from one smoke field. If that stealth run out, you have regained 12 initiative and can get another 9 seconds and so on. That does not even require utility skills or the option, to shadowstep>IA>IA>Shadow return. Or stolen skills like the stealth you get from some illusions…or traits.
Combat is also a very unclear situation. Thats why I asked you for video footage. Your brain is overprocessing, therefore speeding up your suspective feeling of time passed. If you think your oponent used 10 seconds of stealth, it was more likely 4-6 seconds in reality.
If you want to, I can easily record a few hundred hours of of pvp gameplay without ever meeting anything remotely suspicous. Would take a while ofc.
Did you know, that people ‘know ’ that god exists and the theory of evolution is a lie.
People ’know’ they have been abducted by aliens? (That is probabaly ‘unrelated bs’ isnt it? ^^)
And by the way, I am still fully aware of who im talking to, I have not insulted you at any time (at least I did not intend to)
(edited by Asrat.2645)
Khales…would you do yourself and us a favour and let it go already?
You admittedly are an inexperienced player, yet you claim to be able to judge by someones combat performance, whether they are using hacks or not.
Due to the fact that very few people complain about hacking, and all confirmed hacks are rather obvious it is unlikey, tho not completely impossible you have encountered such hackers.
So as long as you keep insisting you met hackers but are unable and unwilling to provide any hard evidence or proof for your qualification to judge, you are in fact making yourself look pretty stupid.
If you have a theorie, thats completely fine, but if you can not back it up in any way I would advise you to keep it to yourself.
There are wto basic attempts to fix the thief:
a) Nerf the op stuff, finetune some stats, make all weaponsets viable: we are fine. Not much to do here
b) Actually a complete rework of the classes mechanics, replacement of skills, full rework of weaponsets, heavily moving traits in and out the daredevil.
The second try might adress the underlying issues of our symptoms, but may aswell make everything worse.
However: whatever you want to do, if you are talikng about ‘damage reduction’ you are following the wrong path. Toughness, vitality, passives, protection. Everything that implies you get hit is for the weaklings’ classes. It is not what the thief needs. Our sustainability with well times evades, interrupts and good gameplay is at the very border. If they severly nerf some of the damage sources, they will also need to nerf things like unhindered combatant, or nobody will ever kill a thief again.
You are not supposed to survive a dh trapbomb. You are supposed to trigger all the traps with a dodge, and get out of there. In exchange, a good burst setup should be rewarded with melting soft targets aswell. Thats where we lack.
Might be. I can opnely say, that im not happy with the +1 style. I can do it, sure. But I dont want to. I prefer to fight my own battles.
I was legend 2x in s1 basically as soloQ, made it to diamond this season and stopped playing gw2 as i moved on to another game till they dont fix basic stuff with rev. I have no issues stomping dh into dirt, what i did was counter reply to kitten post. Who still keep playing low skill classes like dh btw? Obviously low skill people that comes to forum and complains 24/7 about anything that kills them.
Ohh, I get it. Sry for the mixup.
Rev need strong nerfhammer but Anet can’t do that cause HOT sales will drop down drastically.
Dh need strong nerfhammer to their braindead 100% passive playstyle but Anet cant do that cause HOT sales will drop down drastically.
See what i did here? Im sorry, expansion was released few months ago. Ill better move on before i catch some kitten.
People who believe, dragonhunters should be nerfed have never left emerald. And I say that as a thief, who is hardcountered by that class.
Everything but warriors needs to be nerfed right now. Some insignificantly, some strongly. Dragonhunter is one of the few classes, that only needs minor nerfs.
They also call them noobhunter, mostly because counterplay is incredibly easy.
I never said that tho. I said ‘thief is not particulary bad at anything and a balanced class overall’ but ‘I can not think of a class that is worse’ So I came to admit now, that there are two who are. Makes me feel a little better, does not solve the problem. And does not change the fact, that I can help my team better, if I do not play thief, even if playing thief wont make us loos (like some people say)