Guild Wars 2

Rejam.3946:

And why was Ascended added again? Wasn’t it to fill the gap between exotics and legendary’s? But they will make them easier to get later? Why would they do this exactly?

If there are multiple methods one can follow to obtain Ascended quality gear, then it is “easier” for someone to choose one that suits them and their style of play. This doesn’t necessarily mean that they are as easy to obtain as exotics are, but that as the Ascended tier is more fully introduced to the game, people aren’t stuck doing the same thing over and over to get them.

Rejam.3946:

What about people who start after the roll out.
And I’m not sure arguing semantics about the speed of the treadmill really helps your argument.

And ArenaNet are going to be introducing other methods of acquiring this gear with future patches, so those who start later may in fact find it easier to obtain than it is now.

Mackdose.6504:

Put simply, I don’t feel that they violated the manifesto.

Play some WoW. No seriously, I’ll wait.

……
……
……

Okay, now come back here and tell me that the difference isn’t night and day.

In GW2, I don’t have to do dailies every day with a forest green bar that barely moves when I’m finished just to see the content I want to see. I don’t have to wait a week to see the best encounters in the game. I don’t have to pay 15 dollars a month to attempt to stay relevant while juggling a fledgling career and the needs of my relationship.

Gw2 is the MMO I wanted, the MMO that rewards me for playing, and doesn’t punish me for not playing. It’s not perfect, it has glaring issues on a list a mile long.

The manifesto hasn’t been violated by Anet, it’s been violated by a player-base that twisted it into whatever they thought it should have meant, rather than what it actually meant.

I’m of the same opinion. People talk about being gated out of content by the new tier, when you don’t even need the existing exotic tier to complete it successfully. People talk as if the manifesto promised that the best gear would be obtained effortlessly (and not long after launch people were complaining about how much grind they had to do to get exotics).

You will not get stomped in WvW by the zerg of ascended-wearing players, or at least, not any more than you would be by a zerg of exotic-wearing players. sPvP balance is unchanged.

Pifil.5193:

Oh noes! What part of Lion’s Arch will be destroyed this time?

Our waistlines?

Seriously though, ArenaNet have stated there won’t be a Thanksgiving event, the next event is Wintersday.

Shindar the Reaver.2518:

Their response is riddled with lies and betrayal. From Chris Whiteside’s post:

“Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill. " – What can be said about this other than it’s a flat out lie? That it’s technically a truth because the gear treadmill is a means to an end (attracting a different demographic) rather than their primary goal? That’s about the best you’ll do. They have stated their intentions to continue along this same path of stat-based gear progression and gated content. It is a lie. No amount of word-twisting will change that reality.

“Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from exotic up to legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two. " – An intentionally misleading statement, attempting to justify the stat-grind by subtly, purposely confusing the two separate ideas of a cosmetic reward and a stat based reward. There was no massive jump in stat based rewards that had to be ‘fixed’, but that’s what they’re trying to make you think. Intentionally misleading someone is as good as lying.

“We will not be adding a new tier of gear every 3 months that we expect everyone to chase after and then get the next set and so on.” – Another thing that may be technically true, if stretched to its limits, and yet is practically false. They are adding ascended gear bit-by-bit, so yes, there will periodically be new stat improvements that you will have to chase after. Today it is back pieces and jewelry. A few months from now maybe it will be weapons and chest pieces. After that, maybe helms and pants. There is no practical difference between that and there being an actual new tier beyond ascended. Heck, maybe once they reach 6 months from now they will add a whole new tier beyond ascended and start the cycle anew. Technically it wouldn’t lying. Practically, it is.

And the biggest lie of all was the manifesto. The promises that none of this nonsense would come to pass in the first place.

Thank you for addressing my question, and while I don’t agree with everything you say, it at least allows for a conversation about the issues. My take on this whole thing has been that a lot of the differences in opinion are based on how people are interpreting the things ArenaNet have said.

“Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill. " Prior to Chris’ post, I saw a lot of concern on the forums about Ascended gear being merely the first “step” in a treadmill and that ArenaNet would continue to add tiers as the game went on. I am assuming (rightly or wrongly) that this is the point Chris was trying to address. To be fair, I don’t think ArenaNet have done themselves any favours by not explicitly ruling this out. I also don’t believe that ArenaNet intend to introduce content gating based on gear, but that’s possibly something for another thread.

“Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from exotic up to legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two. " – Prior to this patch, exotics were easy to obtain, but legendaries were a big grind that a lot of people weren’t even going to bother attempting them. If ArenaNet wanted to put in more legendaries (including legendary armour), then what would compel more players to think about going after them? The answer of a new tier that is harder to obtain than exotics, may not be correct (and I personally think it’s a mistake), but I can see what their intention is… when a player reaches level 80 they have a short term goal → exotics, a medium term goal → ascended, and a long term goal → legendary

“We will not be adding a new tier of gear every 3 months that we expect everyone to chase after and then get the next set and so on.” – again, I see this as addressing the concerns a lot of people expressed on the forums prior to his post about future new tiers. The ascended tier is being phased in slowly, but I think that’s preferable to it all being released in a single patch.

I can see why people don’t like the stat increase between exotic and ascended, but try this as a thought experiment. Would your opinion on ascended gear be different if it was available at launch, but still required some grinding to get?

Curlybaby.6258:

Astraea.6075:

I’m sorry to use you as an example of what I see is a problem with these sorts of threads, but I see multiple instances of statements that the company is refusing to be honest with it’s customers. What leads you to believe this? There was a blog post where they stated their reasons, and all the people in an uproar decided that it was just a PR exercise.

While you may disagree with the reasoning (and I’ve seen some good examples of this), what has lead you to think the blog post wasn’t sincere?

Their response to date simply insults the intelligence of those of us who know better. Which is all the more disdainful.

Really? I /bow before your superior intellect then…

Seriously though, how does it do this? I can understand the disagreement with the decisions the developers have made and the (assumed) direction that this leads the game into, but you aren’t exactly making your own point in a cogent manner.

Curlybaby.6258:

It makes no sense to engage with the pro-gear grind treadmill crowd. They got what they wanted so of course they are going to come on the forums and defend the despicable act. Ignore them. Our issue is with Anet. Personally, my dissent is not so much because they compromised their integrity by totally doing an about face in what they sold the game to be, but the fact that they refuse to honestly address the matter and be honest with the community, many of us who have been loyal supporters of Anet until this fiasco. All they had to do was be sincere with the reason for their sudden change of game philosophy. Instead what we are getting is infracted, censored, deleted, banned, and just basically ignored. This is no way to treat a customer. Their treatment of this community has been nothing short of abhorrent.

I’m sorry to use you as an example of what I see is a problem with these sorts of threads, but I see multiple instances of statements that the company is refusing to be honest with it’s customers. What leads you to believe this? There was a blog post where they stated their reasons, and all the people in an uproar decided that it was just a PR exercise.

While you may disagree with the reasoning (and I’ve seen some good examples of this), what has lead you to think the blog post wasn’t sincere?

While I think one-time events are a good thing in general, what I couldn’t reflect in the survey was that ideally they should be available as a “once only” per account during a limited time period. I’m not sure how this could be done on a technical level, but with imaginative use of overflows, it may be possible.

The idea being, if you log on during the event period and you haven’t already done the event, you get shunted into an event overflow. If you’ve already done it, you just get placed in your regular server. This allows people to experience the event “once” without affecting those who have already done it.

Yellow and blue are the hues of the dyes, not a reference to their rarity.

Go to the “My Transactions” tab and select “Items I’m Buying” from the drop down list at the top. You will see all pending buy orders there, and you will be able to cancel them by clicking the “Remove” button.

The gold that was taken to fund those orders will now be available on your “Pick Up” tab (although you will need to visit the TP to actually pick it up).

Hope this helps.

There’s a few threads dealing with this already, so I’ll try to be brief.

Firstly, there are two rates not just the one rate. There is a gold → gem rate and a gem → gold rate, and there is roughly a 30% difference between the two. No confirmed reason for this difference, but it may be there to act as a gold sink and also to discourage short-term speculation in gems.

The rate does not just steadily increase, http://www.gw2spidy.com/gem shows the fluctuations in the exchange rates, but overall the rate has been trending upward since launch.

It has been confirmed that the exchange has a supply of gems and gold, and that the rate changes based on the demand.

John Smith.4610:

There seems to be some confusion:
The currency exchange has a supply of Gems and Gold.

If players are converting Gold to Gems, then the Amount of Gold player will receive for their gems goes up.
If players are converting Gems to Gold, then the amount of Gems players receive for Gold goes up.

The exchange rate changes based on the scarcity of each supply. You cannot inflate it, it’s an exchange rate. As players purchase in one direction, it entices purchases in the other direction.

RNG happens… I haven’t had much opportunity to play in the past few days, but I did pick up one level 80 rare since the patch and got 1 ecto from salvaging.

From this, I can draw no conclusions whatsoever about salvaging or drop rates.

Firstly, congratulations in advance on getting 5 level 80’s… I’ve only just finished getting my first one.

I don’t know whether there will ever be a promotion or price reduction on extra character slots, but if I had to guess, I’d say it’s highly unlikely. At the cost of 800 gems, they work out to US$10 each which is probably about where they should be (IMO) as it becomes an ongoing cost to ArenaNet for the life of the game.

If you don’t want to pay cash, at current gold → gem prices, this seems to be around 9g, which may take a little farming on your part, but it’s up to you to decide if it’s worth it or not.

xeph.8410:

Fractal levels are designed to keep players out of content. Otherwise, they wouldn’t exist at all and you’d be able to pick the level you want regardless of “lowest common group fractal level.”

I’m sorry to take one snippet of your otherwise excellent post to disagree with, but I keep seeing it repeated without it being remarked upon.

The content is not locked away behind the fractal levels. Each mini-dungeon is equally accessible despite what level you have achieved in the past.

If your statement had been “Fractal levels are designed to keep players out of higher difficulty content.” then I would have happily agreed with you.

I’ve yet to start running the new Fractals, but I’m not too concerned because I know my guild will help me out. If you don’t have access to a guild, you could always try to start your own lower difficulty group.

Also, as people start to hit a (skill/gear) wall at higher difficulties, they may be more willing to take on people who haven’t progressed as far, as they would get an easier run from doing this.

ghostchipz.2341:

Ok so here is a thought on how to make it possible for everyone to enjoy One-time events
- Roll the event out across your over flow servers every hour during a 24 hour period.
- When you first log on you are given the option to join the next running of the event.
- Once you have taken part in the event you will not be able to access it again.
- You can then control the numbers making it as lag free and accessible to you worldwide player base.

Now I am no techy so I don’t know if this is possible

This could be the basis of the solution to the timing of future one-time events for other time-zones or people who can’t make the originally scheduled time…

Everybody only experiences it once. If you decline to join the overflow with the event, then you miss out (possibly add a short timer to allow people to do stuff like clear inventory first if needed). Once the overflow event is complete, players are switched back to their regular server and into the “changed” world.

Might need to put in some anti-exploiting code to avoid letting people pull friends into the overflow (or at least, not let those friends get rewarded if they have already completed the event).

It’s a simple matter that a number of people had no opportunity to even participate in the event… some of us would gladly put in the work that others did if we were able to.

I understand that this event was of limited duration because it is primarily focused on the new content added to the game, so it’s not as desirable to have it run for as long as a holiday event, but I feel that its duration was too short. It went from the start of Phase 1 to the end of Phase 3 in a bit over 48 hours.

Talloc.6835:

I’m talking in general, not holiday specific. As it is right now, I can get three complete outfits per class off the BLTP and only one can be seen at any point in combat. I’m surprised they haven’t given us more options like the old school Knight’s armor. Maybe it’s in the works, but it’s really hard to get a bead on what Anet is thinking because their communication with us is less than stellar.

Point taken. I also agree the the base offerings from the gem store could use some more additions and possibly price revisions. They also added bundles of 5 Dye Packs in this patch, but that’s nowhere near sufficient to build interest in their offerings IMO.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

But sometimes I’m in such a rush, that I don’t care to guess, and will put up numbers that will guarantee I get my items within seconds. I guess I’m one of those on the extreme. Then the problem is when people see my numbers, and base their decisions on my poor price choices.

And that’s perfectly fine… I will quite often do a similar thing when buying/selling stuff that isn’t related to my trading activities. I’ll fill buy offers just to get the money now, or pay the current listing price for mats I want to use straight away, or put stuff up at some kind of mid-point between the two prices. Someone is likely to have made some (extra) profit from these transactions, but I got what I wanted straight away and could move onto the next thing I want to do so I don’t really care.

TBH, I wasn’t really expecting much in the way of gem store offerings from this event. Mostly because it’s a non-holiday event related to new content, so it’s probably a bit harder to have new and interesting things to add to the store.

OTOH, I expect Wintersday will have a few things I’ll be interested in…

So what exactly is your problem? People are throwing away money?

Derk.3189:

Arenanet spat in our faces, there’s nothing wrong with returning the favor. Which of the core philosophies of the game they promoted can I hold them to now?

Looks like you fail to comprehend the message behind this post. At which point did ArenaNet start calling you names and stop being civil.

Be constructive with your criticism, ArenaNet has made some decisions which are upsetting people, but it’s no excuse to start throwing a tantrum like a spoiled child.

Capo.9604:

Mmmm no, as i said the TP could be a lot more interesting with people actually understanding how it works. Psychologically seeing people throwing away money just make me laugh.

The main problem with these items is that almost no one wants to buy them, so even if the lowest price was set to vendor price + listing fee, there would still be a stockpile of items there that won’t sell. There are some exceptions, so I always check, but if you see a lot of items listed at a low price with no buy offers, it’s pretty much not worth trying to TP them.

MajorMelchett.6042:

koroshi.2658:

http://i.imgur.com/lZz53.png There you go.

Wow, from how it read i assumed this woudn’t happen until the Ascended weapons got put in.

That’s pretty bad as legendary owner now have a damage advantage over everyone until we either do some seriuos farming (for a legendary) or until the ascended weapons arrive.

If this has happened, then I suspect it’s been done in error. There is no mention of this in the patch notes. I’m still dubious about the claims at this point however.

JazzModian.4891:

I know, that’s what i said. The blog also says ascended gear is between exotic and legendary meaning that there is yet another tier of gear above ascended.

From https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/linsey-murdock-unveils-new-high-end-ascended-gear/

You’ll also see more Legendary items in the future and an update to our existing Legendary weapons. Legendary items were always intended to be on par with other “best-in-slot” items. So fear not, all existing Legendary weapons, which are currently on par with Exotics, will be upgraded to be on par with Ascended weapons at the same time that we add Ascended weapons to the game. Thus Legendaries will remain “best-in-slot” items.

Note the use of on par in that statement. Nothing about them being a higher tier in terms of stats. They are another tier in terms of difficulty to acquire, not stats.

JazzModian.4891:

The difference being that legendaries are actually a level higher than ascended gear. Meaning that when legendary level gear comes out, the legendaries in the game currently will be buffed yet another level and anyone with ascended weapons will once again need to grind out another tier.
“Ascended rarity falls between Exotics and Legendaries on the rarity spectrum.”

/sigh.

Legendaries will be buffed to be equivalent to ascended once those ascended items are in the game. Read the blog please.

The OP has not offered any proof to back up his statement. Please keep calm, the sky is not falling (today).

majorkong.9073:

Astraea.6075:

Firstly, I suspect most of the people who do this aren’t reading this subforum.

That’s where you’re wrong!

I do this all the time, posting sell orders at 1c above the merchant price. Sure I’m losing a few copper compared to what I’d get from a merchant, but it’s well worth it to know that by doing so I’m ruining the fun for thousands of people.

Note that I said most not all… and well played sir!

Anuxdei.2175:

some1 can explain me whats the role of low levels in this event ? dungeon not / i think new area is higher too. can join jumping puzzle or is there any point / tropy gathering ?

All of it… you will be upscaled in the new area for the duration of the event (after which it will be a level 80 zone) and even the dungeon will upscale you (not sure if just for the event), but that won’t mean it will be easy if you are lower level.

Derptrix.9320:

I think what’s really getting me at the moment though? For weeks, -weeks- the Gold<->Gem ratio was roughly 124 Gems for 1 Gold, it was this way mere hours ago too. Suddenly, once the patch hits? roughly 85 Gems for 1 Gold. Makes it so arguably, buying gems is more effective than converting gold.

I know ANet need to make money but fiddling with the conversion rates like that is…not good business, in my mind.

It’s not ArenaNet, it’s player driven supply and demand. The exact same thing happened with the release of Halloween items on the BLTC…. see http://www.gw2spidy.com/gem for a detailed view of how the rates have been moving (Halloween spike occurs on 23rd October)

Capo.9604:

It bother me because is impossible to sell most of the items cause most of them are sold at a final earning LOWER than the one you get from a basic merchant, and sell a green item to a basic merchant is sad.

I know what you mean about green items however, I save the ones I can’t sell on TP up and sacrifice them to the gods of RNG (aka the Mystic Forge). Sure, it’s not the most cost effective thing to do, but getting an occasional rare (or even just a green that will sell) feels more rewarding to me.

Capo.9604:

Stop selling items in the TP at 1 cooper more than then basic price, thats kitten , you pay for put items in the TP so you will get more money just selling it to a basic merchant, is pretty obvious but most of the people seems not to understand that.

Firstly, I suspect most of the people who do this aren’t reading this subforum.

Secondly, if there are a lot of items listed for sale at 1c above vendor price, it’s pretty safe to assume there is very little demand for those items, and you may as well just vendor yours anyway. Yes, some people are losing money by posting at this price, but at least they are signalling to you that it’s not worth trying to TP that item.

Short answer, No.

Longer answer: Until the patch goes live, things are subject to change. Posting notes a week in advance will not be useful, and even if they state clearly “this is all subject to change”, players will whine and moan about changes between the notes and the actual patch.

In addition, while there may be issues on the communications front, the last few days have seen an explosion on the forum with respect to the upcoming patch. With what you propose, we will see the same thing with every patch and lots of “the sky is falling” type of complaints based on people’s reaction to how they think the patch will change their gameplay rather than being based on how their gameplay has actually changed.

DavidMonthen.4398:

Why would you want to reduce it? It’s supposed to be a free market is it not?

I’m not an economist (nor do I play one on TV), but I’ll try to answer this as best as I can.

In a “perfect” market, buyers and sellers would know the exact value of the goods they are trading in at any particular point in time. Buy orders and sell listings would then be placed at that value and there would be a perfect match between supply and demand at that point in time.

What we have in reality however is a lot messier. Buyers and sellers are both “guessing” at the value of the goods they are trading in, although they have some information to help them arrive at the value (e.g. current buy and sell listing prices and volumes). Some buyers elect to take the best available sale offer, and some sellers elect to take the best available buy offer, but everybody else puts up an offer that is usually in between these two values.

The actions of traders like myself, help to reduce the spread between these 2 prices and therefore move both buy and sell prices towards the point where supply will match demand.

BrunoBRS.5178:

yeah. it was just an experiment after all. i was just curious if it was working as intended, because i could swear the exchange rates were interchangeable in the past.

The margin may have been closer in real terms, but as a percentage it’s always been about 30%. (e.g. taking the earliest data point from http://www.gw2spidy.com/gem the buy rate was 28s 9c for 100 gems, and the sell rate was 20s 33c for 100 gems, so the difference was less than 8 silver per 100 gems compared to the current difference of about 27 silver per 100 gems).

Colonel Kernel.7506:

Q. Where and how do players set the inputs? How do players set the rates?

A. They don’t. That’s per John Smith and anyone can look at the interface for selling or buying Gems and see that it’s true.

The rates are set by the aggregrate actions of players buying and selling gems. Those are the inputs controlled by the players.

Clark Skinner.4902:

You’re giving the person selling their item 1c more. You’re taking 15% of the money that would have come from that transaction and giving it to the tax man. If you weren’t there, the person buying below you would have gotten their item sooner and that 15% would not have been destroyed.
You consider it a benefit to save people from having to wait, yet you’re causing people who already have the item up for sale to have to wait, so any benefit is negated.

Some very good points.

With respect to the 1c more, I sometimes adjust the price by more than this, but the most important part is that I’m not the only one doing this, so the buy price is likely to have been adjusted upwards multiple times. Yes, it may mean people have to wait longer to receive items they wanted to buy at the lower price, but you can also assume that they were prepared to wait in order to buy at that lower price in the first place. The same principle holds for those selling goods.

As an aside, I also use the TP for buying materials to level crafting. Sometimes I will place buy orders if I’m not in any rush for the materials, and other times I will pay at the sell rate if I want to use them immediately. This is the trade-off I am prepared to make of time vs. cost, and I even use it when selling items on the TP.

What I and the others engaged in this activity are doing is reducing the price spread between buy and sell prices by assuming some of the risks and opportunity costs involved in putting up buy offers and listing items for sale. We have a trading post where players can signal to others both how much they want to pay for and item and what price they are willing to sell that item for. Traders like myself work in the margin between these 2 values and help to bring them closer.

@ Magikker:

I did say I didn’t necessarily have an answer for you… lol.

Given ArenaNet play this role in the gem exchange, I’d say there’s probably no technical reason why they couldn’t do this for whole trading post, but I don’t think many players would react positively if they did so. There are numerous posts where people speculate about them manipulating the gem exchange, given some of the recent price spikes in ectos, T6 mats, dyes, we’d be deep in tinfoil hat territory if ArenaNet was the only market maker.

Let me add another piece of “anecdotal evidence” for you. Due to other commitments (work, family, etc.) I don’t have as much time to play the game as I would like to, so it sometimes feels that I’m not progressing my in-game goals very fast. I can usually manage however to log in when I’m getting ready for work in the morning and put up a few buy and sell offers. I don’t make a lot of money during from these sessions, but it does help me feel that I’m making some progress with the game even if I haven’t managed to find the time to level/explore/complete DEs/etc and the supplemental income has been useful to me while I’ve been levelling.

Sorry if I’m putting words into your mouth (or text into your keyboard), but I think the main issue you have is how beneficial is it for the game as a whole if the trading post is the most effective means of generating in-game wealth as opposed to actually playing the game.

I don’t necessarily have an answer to this, but it is an interesting question..

I think it’s worth bearing in mind that different players have different motivations, and for some of them, playing the (virtual) markets is the type of gameplay they enjoy. For others however, even if you could conclusively prove to them that playing the market is the best option to gain gold, they will not want to “sit idly watching numbers” and would rather go out and farm in Orr with their time.

In purely economic terms, the market trading in this game is healthy for the economy. As you noted gold is removed due to fees, but in addition traders add liquidity to the markets and reduce the margins between buy and sell prices which benefits “regular” players.

Magikker.9243:

I’d love to see a scatter plot where each point represents a player. The y-axis would be total transactions on the trading post, the x axis would be the total value of the player’s account (use the current market value of all items on the whole account if you could sell everything on the TP or to a vendor taking the highest offer for each item).

Do similar plots but do one for value against play time, DE’s completed, Anet points and skill points. I’d be curious to see which is most strongly correlated with wealth. I’ll place my bet on TP transactions having the strongest correlation.

But the biggest thing I’m seeing here is a difference in what constitutes market manipulation. Some people consider flipping items as manipulation. But to an economist’s ears that probably sounds a lot like “market making.” I’d suggest that in a digital world market making shouldn’t be left to players because centralizing huge amounts of wealth on individual accounts is a source of other in game headaches.

It’s an interesting idea, and could be a good area for study. While I also suspect that TP activity would have the strongest correlation to overall wealth, a large contributing factor to that would be because other activities are generally geared to other types of rewards that aren’t exclusively financial in nature (e.g. time spent running dungeons for a desired skin can be financially rewarding, but the ultimate reward from completion has a value to the player that can’t be measured solely in financial terms).

The problem of centralizing wealth in a digital market is also quite complex. I guess the main issue is to what degree does this restrict opportunities for new entrants into the market. My (uneducated) guess is that the size of the market helps restrict the formation of monopolies or cartels which should help with some of the problems this wealth centralization can cause in the real world.

Clark Skinner.4902:

I agree with the first 2.

It would make the TP less of an absolute pain for those who want to use it as intended (to trade with other players for things we looted or need to use).
I’d pretty much never buy something and need to sell it again within 3 days.
I’d pretty much never sell something and need to buy more within 3 days.

Middlemen infest the market now. 1 person gaining lots of money for little work at the expense of the many.

I can understand people anticipating market trends and buying a bunch of something hoping it will rise in price in a week or two. They would be exempt from this suggestion as it only applies a cooldown.

As one of the middlemen that are “infesting” the market, let me try to explain how my actions are actually beneficial to those who just want to sell stuff they looted/crafted or buy goods to use.

Firstly, I place buy orders at a rate that is generally at or above the current going buy rate. This gives players who just want to sell their stuff straight away more money for their goods than they would have otherwise received.

I then place sell orders for those goods at a rate that is generally at or below the current going sell rate. This gives players who want to receive the goods they are buying straight away the ability to pay less for those goods than they would otherwise have cost.

Yes, I make a profit, but I also provide liquidity in the market by being an immediate buyer and seller of goods, and the actions of players like myself repeated multiple times help narrow the margins between the buy and sell prices of goods on the market.

I’ve only just hit 80 on my main and fully intend to acquire exotics despite knowing that ascended items are on the horizon.

Asilion.9213:

I realize this and would never suggest such a drastic change (or uncontrollable variable) that exchanging when rates favor you only to wait until the fulcrum shifts by a wide enough margin that buying in bulk yields significant profit becomes standard. If one were to enter the market right now (without a hoard of gems they bought at 1/3 the current price) they’d be extremely hard pressed to make a single copper profit from the most extreme shifts in either direction with even bulk trading, and the risk associated with the high probability that they will never profit at all (as Gold now is worth more than it ever will be in the future, and Gems now aren’t worth as much as they eventually will be when people are paying 2g per 100 gems in the future) far outweighs the potential gain.

I want 2 extra bank tabs, and maybe 1 extra character slot. So far I’ve gotten 1 bank tab when 600 gems cost me ~1g 75s. Sure that isn’t as much money to me now as it was then, but it wasn’t the equivalent of 5g+ now… closer to 3g. The trend is outpacing gold savings of the average enthusiast (and with so many gold-sinks aside from gems, such as lining the pockets of the market controlling elite, it is no wonder) by too wide a margin.

Would I buy Gems at 40-50 silver per 100 for exclusive use in the Gem Store? Probably, infrequently. Would I buy Gems $10.00 at a time if $10 netted me more than 4g – 5g? I’d consider it. $2 per gold (it used to be $6!), you’re crazy. I haven’t found a day job that pays me $1 for the number of clicks it takes to earn a gold “the old fashioned way” in game. It’s the only option. And in spite of your concerns, that equals lost revenue… not on paper, but in reality.

I can sympathise to some degree. I earn a half-way decent salary, but due to other factors I haven’t been able to justify spending real money in the gem store yet, although I still want extra bank slots, maybe a character slot a bit later on, and possibly some other things in time. I did however spend gold recently on buying enough gems for a bank slot when they were around 80s for 100 gems.

While you and I might consider something to be a fair price, others may consider it to be over or under priced. The exchange is designed so that the volume of trades on both sides should reach equilibrium and the “price” at which this equilibrium occurs is determined by how the player base as a whole is willing to value gems and gold.

Romerio.8763:

Right now, only Anet can manipulate the price, and they can do this behind the scenes without letting the customers know.

I’d rather it be in the the open, so we can tell if there is artificial manipulation going on.

Right now, someone with enough gold should be able to ‘buy out’ the gems avaialable on the exchange. Anet would then have to “Magic” gold and/or gems back into existence in the exchange to enable trade to occur again… They have said that they don’t do this.

If there was only 1 gem available in the exchange, would it cost an infinite amount of gold?

If you release too many details, then people will know exactly how much gold would be required to “buy out” the available gems, or rather, what quantity of gem buying would be required to shift the rate by more than 30% and into the territory of profitability.

In addition, while ArenaNet could modify the rate behind the scenes, I’ve yet to see any evidence of this happening (and with rate data available on gw2spidy I’m sure someone would notice if it did happen) and I don’t see any valid reason for them to do so.

Asilion.9213:

That explains far too much.

Last week I had been looking into the $ cost of acquiring Abyss dye at 5g if the entirety was funded by Gem purchases. At that time inflation was closer to 3.5x its initial rate and you could get about 63s per 100 ($10 buys 63×8 = 5g 4s). The intial rate of 20s 33c would have required not 800 but 2,479 Gems, or in excess of $30. $30.99 if you could buy exactly 2,479. For some dye. On a single character. The inflation of Gem prices has reduced it to $10.

Meanwhile 5g exchanged for Gems can’t even buy you an extra bank tab. So you’d need to pay more than $10 assuming you had no standing balance.

Just a quick point, the exchange has not been designed to facilitate converting gems to gold and back again (or gold to gems and back again). The presumption is that people will buy gems with gold in order to spend them in the store, and those who sell gems for gold want to spend that gold in the game. In the above example, if you wanted the bank slot, you would either pay $7.50 in real money or just over 5 gold from in-game funds.

The initial and current exchange rate for Gems > Gold cannot possibly keep up with inflation as Gold loses value in game, as it started abysmally low. This will only get worse, as people hoard $100 or $1,000 worth of Gold, the mere thought of paying $10 for 5g when you have 500g is ludicrous. Meanwhile you will have to hoard that much gold if you want to still be buying Gems at the rate they will continue to climb to, since the incentive to keep that side of inflation in balance is almost nil.

TLDR: The Gems > Gold exchange needs a variable modifier which scales, both on Gold > Gems conversion and the increase in total player-owned (hoarded) gold in game. That way it will always be viable to purchase Gems and convert into Gold as it will guarantee an appreciable rate no matter how much Gold floods the market.

Again, not speaking as some economic guru, merely as the end-consumer that needs to see real incentive to invest in said economy. I see none in either direction. The base rates combined with the steady lopsided market trend paint a giant “grind for gold and stay away from Gems” sign all over it.

There is one primary purpose for gems, which is to buy things in the gem store. The fact that players can trade gems for gold and vice versa is a secondary feature, and as such, the demand for gold → gems should depend on the desirability of items in the gem store, not the supply of gold in the game.

The problem with a scaling modifier such as you suggest is that the exchange rate would become decoupled from the actual demand for gold → gems and would likely mean that the supply and demand for gems → gold would become imbalanced. If the supply side is higher (more gems being converted to gold), then gold is being added to economy out of “thin air”. If the demand side is higher (more gold being converted to gems), then ArenaNet is supplying items to players from their cash shop that no one has actually paid for and thereby losing revenue.

BurnedToast.3781:

xtorma.1283:

Who would believe them after this?

^^this

They said no treadmill, no gated content. 3 months later – we have loot treadmill and gated content.

They have lost quite a bit of credibility.

There is no gated content. 9 mini-dungeons, all equally accessible (with a random set of 3 at a time). There is the option of increasing the difficulty of these dungeons over the course of multiple runs, but you will not be required to obtain ascended gear to go into these dungeons.

While this may seem like a treadmill, it only actually qualifies as a treadmill if the gear is required to access the content. Yes, there will be a requirement to start getting infused items as you access higher levels of difficulty, but as those higher difficulty levels are optional, it’s something you can safely ignore if you want to.

Asilion.9213:

I’m no economics major but I’ve been acknowledged for grasping the fundamentals in academics.

Curious as to what the exchange rate for Gems > Gold was at launch? Was it more abysmal than 58 silver (current rate?) If so I can’t imagine, say (2.7x is current inflation of Gold > Gems since I last bought them) paying $10 for 800 Gems = 1g 72s back when Gems were 29s per 100. That is, if people are using Gold to buy Gems more than using Gems to buy Gold causing the cost to rise, then by the dev’s claim the opposing exchange would improve by a similar (if not symmetrical) rate.

If Gems cost 2.7x more now, you should be getting 2.7x more Gold per 100 Gems exchanged, and if you’re not, then there is indeed inflation which will cause both exchange rates to become unreasonable and economically unsound in the future.

Looking at http://www.gw2spidy.com/gem and taking the earliest available data point and comparing agains the most recent data point, I get the following:

Buying gems: initial rate – 28s09c; current rate – 88s70c; change = 315.77%
Selling gems: initial rate – 20s33c; current rate – 64s08c; change = 315.20%

So both rates are changing at very similar rates and the difference could possibly be explained by the fact that exchange has to round to the nearest copper.

piitb.7635:

Spend a week getting exotic gear. Good.

Spend a week getting the new ascended pieces. Bad

That about sums it up.

Pretty much… I’ve just hit 80 myself and am starting on the path to acquire exotics. I’m not worried that any items I pick up may soon be replaced by ascended gear as it’s all part of the journey.

Obtaining exotics isn’t required to enjoy the game or access the content, and it will be same for the new ascended gear. The one exception may be for the new Fractals of the Mist dungeon, but the blog indicates that Agony & Infusions become more prominent as you progress further into the dungeon, so I’m confident it won’t be an issue for pug groups.

RoyHarmon.5398:

I did (8428-6089)/6089=0.38413… = 38%.

I guess maybe you did (8428-6089)/8028=0.2775?

Either way, it’s a bit excessive in my opinion.

Yeah I did it the second way… it’s a 28% loss on your original funds, not a 38% loss on your remaining funds.

I think it’s a problem if you buy gems with gold and immediately regret it and wish to get your gold back, but it also means that gems don’t get targeted for speculation like other commodities.

Ars Valde.8693:

Most of the crap in the store is massively overpriced too. Bring down the consumables to a considerate level and add things WORTH buying, especially vanity stuff. As is? I’ll buy a character slot or two, and some bank enhancements, and that’s about it. The rest of the stuff is absurdly priced, especially when thinking in value of real money, not just gold.

I do think that item pricing is one of the things that ArenaNet will need to keep an eye on with their gem store. Some of the account improvement prices aren’t too bad (in my opinion… YMMV), but I’m not likely to buy many of the consumables at curent prices.