Guild Wars 2

Crinn.7864:

Astralporing.1957:

Devata.6589:

However that did not really worked out as planned and it turned in to full DPS. What they fixed in raids.

If anything, raids enshrined the “max dps” approach, not weakened it. Yes, you use roles that aren’t dps based, but there’s not only no incentive to go beyond that required minimum – quite the opposite, you are strongly penalized for doing that. Something that simply wasn’t true in group instanced encounters until raids appeared.

That isn’t something that can be fixed. Maximizing DPS is the optimal way to do any content where your objective has a numerical health pool. It’s why even in games like Battlefield you still see people talking about DPS.

The fact of the matter is that the optimal way to do every piece of content in every single game ever is to take the minimum required amount of sustain and put everything else into DPS.

No. Maximizing DPS being the “optimal way” was how it worked for dungeons and fractals. In the case of raids however, going non-optimal does not mean that the fight will get longer. It means that it gets progressively harder (and in some cases just plain impossible).
Thus, raids not only not fixed the “max dps” approach, but enforced it with actual mechanics.

Fatalyz.7168:

So, if someone doesn’t think training guilds should push new players towards meta builds, why don’t they join a training guild that doesn’t?

Because those are not succesful.
It’s not the guilds that push the players towards those builds. It’s the game itself that does.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Astralporing.1957:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Astralporing.1957:

Yep, the system is really unfriendly for all new guilds. Which is a problem.

Why is it a problem? Why should a new guild be easy to establish? Running a social network well is a lot of work; perhaps it’s better if the incentives are better for joining an established organization rather than re-inventing the wheel.

Nope. That eventually ends up killing any attempts to make new guilds in game. And a game where every community is an old one is a dying game.

I can’t disagree more that it “ends up killing any attempts to make new guilds.” It discourages people from starting guilds for the sake of starting a guild. It encourages people to be ready to commit to the enormous effort that is required to establish a long-lasting social structure.

No, it discourages guilds that grow. It creates a situation, where if you can’t create a big guild from the day one, you should give up. It has nothing to do with long-lasting social structures. In fact, of the guilds i have been in in my long MMO history, the most fragile ones were those with more members, as those tend to have less group cohesion.

Amaimon.7823:

an open world fight against an elder dragon is also fine, but the problem would be.. well.. however cool, do we want an elder dragon to turn into grindable content? can we still take the dragons seriously, then?

Do you seriously think that raids are not a grindable content?

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Astralporing.1957:

Yep, the system is really unfriendly for all new guilds. Which is a problem.

Why is it a problem? Why should a new guild be easy to establish? Running a social network well is a lot of work; perhaps it’s better if the incentives are better for joining an established organization rather than re-inventing the wheel.

Nope. That eventually ends up killing any attempts to make new guilds in game. And a game where every community is an old one is a dying game.

Devata.6589:

However that did not really worked out as planned and it turned in to full DPS. What they fixed in raids.

If anything, raids enshrined the “max dps” approach, not weakened it. Yes, you use roles that aren’t dps based, but there’s not only no incentive to go beyond that required minimum – quite the opposite, you are strongly penalized for doing that. Something that simply wasn’t true in group instanced encounters until raids appeared.

Vayne.8563:

I think it’s more likely on a list for a complete overhaul as part of a larger upgrade, but they have too much going on now to focus on it. They’ll get to it, at some point, perhaps in an expansion in the future.

More likely it’s marked as the least important of all the things to do, and thus all the new things that come up end up queued above it.

Yep, the system is really unfriendly for all new guilds. Which is a problem.

TexZero.7910:

Blaeys.3102:

I think a lot of people miss the point -

This has never been about difficult or easy. It is about adding to raids – not detracting from them. It is about expanding the experience of raids to a wider range of players – something that would be good for everyone, imo.

Not really.

If expanding comes at the cost of the identity then it’s not worth the cost, nor is it good for everyone. It’s just good for those who didn’t care to join in on the original difficulty level.

Well, the same could be said about introducting the current raids, don’t you think? Why it was okay then, but it’s suddenly a bad idea now?

Sykper.6583:

Astralporing.1957:

TexZero.7910:

Since when did a vocal minorities voice about excluding themselves from content matter to a developer?

Since a small vocal minority that didn’t want to play the existing content persuaded Anet to introduce Raids, i’d say.

We had a CDI that proves the opposite of this point.

Oh, really? In what way?

Sykper.6583:

How can today’s raids be anything but a result of what the community collectively wanted from the CDI?

First, only a small subset of community participated in that CDI, so how it could be a represenation of what community wanted? Second, on lot of things there was no debate (or at least no meaningful debate) because Anet devs have already decided what they wanted.

Anet asked a small subset of players what they wanted, and then interpreted it their own way, ignoring most of the feedback.

TexZero.7910:

Since when did a vocal minorities voice about excluding themselves from content matter to a developer?

Since a small vocal minority that didn’t want to play the existing content persuaded Anet to introduce Raids, i’d say.

It’s better if they give us a finished product, instead of some betatest version. Unfortunately, for this we’ll have to wait.

OniGiri.9461:

Im glad they try out new stuff. If i wanted the same ol’ same ol’ – there are plenty of other games that deliever that.

Actually, the “new stuff” in gw2 is mostly new in GW2, while at the same time trying to make this game into somethivg more alike to those “plenty of other games”.

I hope that this time around Anet will not repeat the HoT mistakes, and will concentrate mostly on GW2’s strong sides, instead of trying to please some small minorities at the expense of core players.

castlemanic.3198:

Isn’t June way too soon for an expansion? Especially because there hasn’t been a single word on the matter?

He didn’t say the expansion will be in June, just the news.
Personally, i wouldn’t count on next expac happening this year – if that was a plan, we would have first news about it already. I’d say August next year is the earliest something can happen.

And as for any general news, state of the game posts, or game direction updates. I wouldn’t expect them at all. Anet seems institutionally incapable of communicating on that level.

The one thing that is worth to mention is that fractal pages needed for token crafting come from daily numbered fractals. Those are generally not worth doing. Unless you need the pages, that is.
So, unlike other cases, you won’t get the currency needed to buy ascended stuff from doing the content as usual.

NikeEU.7690:

If tier 4 fractals are too hard for Astralporing.1957 or OP I would suggest trying tier 1 or 2 until you’re more comfortable. =)

I can do t4 just fine, thank you very much. That doesn’t make swamp any more enjoyable though.

zealex.9410:

I encountered this when the rework was released i dont see that as much now if ever but i guess for you to say it it still happens.

You don’t see it as often because lot of players just plain stopped doing swamp.

Ramoth.9064:

His comment was entirely subjective

Yes, that’s the point. Whether swamp is one of the best fractals is subjective. There are people (me, for example) that have a different opinion.
In short, it’s debatable.

CptAurellian.9537:

Bloomy is one of the best encounters in all fractals.

That’s debatable.

flog.3485:

And yet this “pinnacle” is so easy to ignore.

If it’s so easy to ignore, why people defend that exclusivity so strongly?

flog.3485:

We are not playing a game where most of armors are released in game, skins are rather released through gemstores

Not anymore. Outfits just don’t give you enough customization options.

flog.3485:

Consider this as well: if you design an easy long term farm to obtain the legendary armor, don’t you completely undervalue the other skins that are released because of the uniqueness of having an “animated” armor ?

No more than legendary weapons “undervalue” all other skins.

flog.3485:

I say it is best to let a player choose the skins he can/wants to grind

I agree. For this, there must be a choice. No, choosing a gameplay you like is a completely different choice.

vesica tempestas.1563:

casual players can play 100% of the content excluding perhaps raids which represents a tiny proportion of the game (i do think Anet should create a agony style system for raids so all can enjoy it personally)

Doesn’t matter. It’s the image that’s important for new players, because they have nothing else to base their purchase decision on.
And the image of the game did change.

vesica tempestas.1563:

example vanilla orr was just as difficult to roam as current HOT zones.

And then it got changed because players didn’t like it that way.

maddoctor.2738:

Astralporing.1957:

Most likely, because everyone that was interested in it has bought it already, and there’s not enough new players to make a visible impact on sales.

I see this a lot as an argument but I don’t get it. Why was Guild Wars 2: Heroic Edition selling at Q4 2014 (before the announcement of Heart of Thorns in January) so well, for a game that was already old by mmorpg standards AND it was during a period of a terrible content drought (last content update was in August 2014)

Why was the Heroic Edition of GW2 outselling Heart of Thorns so long after the release of the game?

It’s aimed at different gaming population?
Also, remember, that there’s the f2p version. People that liked the core approach, but didn’t like what the expac did to the game can just stay f2p now.

maddoctor.2738:

Now, however, all the quarterly reports show that the game isn’t selling anymore and I’m asking why that is.

Most likely, because everyone that was interested in it has bought it already, and there’s not enough new players to make a visible impact on sales.
Yes, that probably mean that the active population is rather low.

But to use anecdote as an indirect answer, the most stated reason why people in my guild didn’t buy HoT is because the expac didn’t live up to their expectations. Their expectations were, in all those cases, “more of the same”. It was the difficulty jump, and meta-driven on fixed schedule nature of the maps that discouraged them. In some cases, addition of raids was brough up as well (ironically, the only person that actually waited for raids to come got discouraged by open PvE changes in the expac). All of those players stopped playing completely within half a year from launch, so i don’t see much hope of them changing their mind later on.
(for most cases the info they based their decisions on was coming from comments the players that did buy expac were making when they started playing it)

Najten.2418:

I know there is specific information regarding what a 3rd party program is allowed to do and not do; but since I’m not entirely sure of how these different programs operate I don’t know if they break these rules or not.
Is there an official list of for instance DPS Meters that are allowed to use or will I just have to install one and “hope for the best”? :|

More specifically, would BGDM be allowed?

It’s… tricky. By Anet statement dps check is allowed if it’s for your group or squad. BGDM has a slightly different selection method. On one hand that method seems generally okay (as it is an opt-in method, and so cannot be done if the player in question is unwilling), on the other it doesn’t really comply with the letter of the rule (as it can pull info from players that aren’t in squad/group).

Crinn.7864:

Vayne.8563:

The more the game “encourages” people into content that they don’t enjoy, the more chance that people will be dissatisfied with the game. Only a certain number of people are going to keep banging away at stuff they don’t like to get the shiny.

And if you don’t encourage people into content then they never find the content they enjoy.

There’s a difference between encouraging people to try out new content, and encouraging them to bang their heads against it.

Crinn.7864:

When started playing my first mmorpg, I had zero intention of doing raids, and had zero intention of doing PvP. The entire concept of group content freaked me out. However I ended up getting dragged kicking and screaming through both PvP and raids, and discovered that I liked both of those more than mindless quest grinding.

What if you ended up not liking those? This approach only works if it’s succesful. If it fails however (and it fails often) it fails hard.

maddoctor.2738:

Yet the rest of the Fractals they added were easier than core Fractals, and all the changes to Fractals were straight up nerfs in difficulty. They are ALL easier now.

Snowblind isn’t. Chaos and Nightmare aren’t easier than old fractals either.

Miellyn.6847:

Astralporing.1957

Weapons are gated behind a core content. Anet assumes that most players do play PvE (and they assume right). Raids are not core content however. Also, one set of weapons can be flat out bought from TP.

Backpacks are hidden behind side content, but there are two of them (so you can choose), and also they are locked behind a much lower investment in said content than raids. In fact, PvP backpack acquisition method got even easier lately.

The legendaries with HoT are still exclusively gated behind certain content, if I want those have to play the content. There is no alternative and weapons have no alternative option. Play open world or don’t get it.

What about the “core content” did you misunderstand? Also, yeah, those weapons do have an alternative, because a second set exists. Point me to a second legendary armor, available from core content (and buyable from TP), and i will shut up.

Miellyn.6847:

Most people craft legendaries for the skin or the glider from the backpacks. People that don’t have enough time for Dragon’s Stand will never get a HoT legendary weapon. Should it be changed?

Most probably, yeah. HoT weapons require too much of a specific grind. It’s good that we do have an alternative set that’s more accessible, though.

Miellyn.6847:

Why is it ok to gate weapons behind one type of content and not for the armor?

Why is it that you still don’t see the difference between core content, meant for a majority of players, and a side one, meant for only a minority?

Miellyn.6847:

Then let it stay truly optional. Do not try to use incentives to pull into raids people that do not like that gamemode.

It is optional. Where does the story told in raids affect you (the part of Forsaken Thicket that plays a role in LS3 gets explained in Head of the Snake, with more information than the raid ever had)? Where are legendary items better than ascended?

Is the legendary armor an incentive to get people to raid, even if they don’t like the content, or not?

Miellyn.6847:

But it wasn’t existent in GW2 until raids.

Yes it was. Old dungeon groups and old fractals had times without non-meta groups unless you started your own and you can still do that with raids.

My lfgs filled within minutes, and i still had like 99% chance of completion. Not so with raids.

maddoctor.2738:

Which skill is so useful in open world pve and you can’t finish content without it, that was nerfed due to Raids?

It’s the reason behind skill changes that is important, not the changes themselves. For example, ghost thieves got nerfed last patch. WvW community asked for a looong time for that nerf, and the build only got buffed, but nerf happened very fast after someone posted a link with that build soloing slothasor. That pretty much tells you everything you want to know about the relative importance of those two game modes.

Miellyn.6847:

The rework would have happend most likely anyway. They said they want T4 fractals as a stepping stone for raids and want to increase the difficulty there not fractals in general.

Yeah. So, please, tell me – would it happen if raids didn’t exist?
If the answer is “no” (and it is), then here you have raids impacting another unrelated game mode.

Rasimir.6239:

Astralporing.1957:

Miellyn.6847:

It was also always clear that ArenaNet wants optional content for organised groups that can’t be cleared with your average PUG.

Then let it stay truly optional. Do not try to use incentives to pull into raids people that do not like that gamemode.

This keeps being repeated, but there’s one question I have: How do you propose to encourage the vast number of middle ground people that just need a little incentive to enjoy the gamemode to play it without also giving incentive to those that don’t have the willpower to resist temptation to play stuff they don’t enjoy?

The same way it was being done in dungeons and is the case in fractals currently – through increased rewards that are not unique.

The incentive of dungeons of old and fractals of now was not in dungeon/fractal skins, but in liquid gold/material rewards. The same should stay for raids.
Also, you greatly overestimate the “vast number” of middle ground players. Unless you speak in relatives, but that would mean the number of core raiders is really small (though if you think about it, it probably is).

maddoctor.2738:

Astralporing.1957:

In GW2 it wasn’t clear from the beginning. And yet the game does seem to look like a raid-focused one more and more.

By adding more content for all other game modes than ever added in the game’s history it becomes raid-focused? Nice leap of logic there.

When content added for raids is at least equal, if not greater, than one added for core gamemode? With parts of the ls story hidden behind raids? WIth raids being mentioned as explanation behind changes in other gamemodes? With pretty much open admission that raids are being considered to be the endgame now (as opposed to previous model)?
I think that my logic is pretty sound, thank you very much.

Miellyn.6847:

Astralporing.1957:

Because, as has been alreadymentioned, the problem is not the armor, but it’s acquisition method.

Why is the acquisition a problem for the armor and not for the weapons and backpieces? They are also exclusive gated behind certain content.

Weapons are gated behind a core content. Anet assumes that most players do play PvE (and they assume right). Raids are not core content however. Also, one set of weapons can be flat out bought from TP.

Backpacks are hidden behind side content, but there are two of them (so you can choose), and also they are locked behind a much lower investment in said content than raids. In fact, PvP backpack acquisition method got even easier lately.

Miellyn.6847:

I play MMOs now for over 10 years. I never experienced a takeover from raids. It was always pretty clear from the beginning that raids are the focus.

In GW2 it wasn’t clear from the beginning. And yet the game does seem to look like a raid-focused one more and more.

Miellyn.6847:

It was also always clear that ArenaNet wants optional content for organised groups that can’t be cleared with your average PUG.

Then let it stay truly optional. Do not try to use incentives to pull into raids people that do not like that gamemode.

Miellyn.6847:

Manasa Devi.7958

If you can arrange that I can be raiding along with 9 compatible people a few minutes into my gaming session whenever I happen to find an opportunity to log on, I could probably do it. My skill level won’t be the problem.

Unless you are a tank, this is also not existent in any other game that features easy modes and automated queues.

But it wasn’t existent in GW2 until raids.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

In other words, there is no method of distribution that pleases everyone and we all have different tastes as far as skins.

True, but that doesn’t mean the general dislike of all those methods is equal. RNG nature of skins hidden behind a black lion chest drop chance has always been at the top of gemshop complains.

OniGiri.9461:

Interesting. You and everyone you know stopped playing – but you still care enough to be on the games forums.

Yes, that’s the really sad part of the changes. Among People that left there were many that really cared about the game.

Miellyn.6847:

This got added with the introduction of ascended weapons, you are still four years too late. Switching stats without switching the rune or sigil is worthless most of the time.
This was a non-issue when weapons got it and now with armor it is evil?

Because, as has been alreadymentioned, the problem is not the armor, but it’s acquisition method.

OniGiri.9461:

Thats not correct. The choice to put a high tier reward into raids is totally logical.
Raiding is currently the hardest kind of content in guild wars 2.

So? It’s not like it being harder is somehow inherently better. Not everyone is interested in this kind of content.

Also, as Rednik said – are Raids front-and center content at the top of everything, or are they a side content? Because if they are the former, then everything that was said in this thread about game identity change is completely true.

OniGiri.9461:

If i beat any kind of hard mode in another game i expect to get the shinniest of the shinniest. But not in this game? Why?

There are games that revolve around difficulty and beating it. GW2 was not one of those. Now it is. That’s what i am against.

OniGiri.9461:

Looking at the history of high level rewards in this game you can surely expect another kind of legendary armor to be released down the line or another way to earn legendary insights to get to this one.

I’m not content to wait 2-3 years (or more) for the first one to happen – that’s why i am all for either easy mode (with rewards) or an alternate acquisition option. Though, again, i’d rather not wait years for that to happen.

OniGiri.9461:

There was a time where you could only craft ascended gear.

Ascended gear being more easily available is solely an effect of players voicing their dissatisfaction with the original implementation. If most players were okay with rings and backpacks being locked behind fractals, then most likely all the ascended gear now would be obtainable only as drops from high-end content (and we’d likely have even stronger tiers now, as Anet didn’t hide then that they did plan to engage in gear progression). Turns out players were really angly about both those ideas, and were very vocal about it, and thus Anet had to adjust their original plans.

OniGiri.9461:

Now pretty much every game mode has its own way of getting it and it drops in all kind of content.

Yes. Because then players did not remain silent.

maddoctor.2738:

Vayne.8563:

But you can get a legendary backpack from PvP or Fractals.

They added multiple legendary backpacks because it’s easy for them to do so. Legendary armor takes an insane amount of time to finish as we’ve already seen.

In that case they should have made a legedary raid backpack, not armor set. If they can only create one armor, then it should be put in content that is more widely played. But no, they wanted raids to be special for some reason or another. And that decision is one that implies change in the direction of the game. This decision (and a few others like it) is what makes a difference between “raids are a side content meant for a minority of players, equal to other side contents in the game” and “raids are a special content that’s above all others”.

And that’s definitely a change of the game identity.

OriOri.8724:

I support having the updrafts turn on when you unlock further exploration in LP.

Good idea.
Too bad the devs don’t care.

Rawr.9467:

Try actually enjoying it?

If he doesn’t enjoying it already, it’s not going to change just because he’d “try”. You can’t force enjoyment. And it’s the idea that you can that lies behind the majority of bad game decisions with the game lately.

drunkenpilot.9837:

I don’t know of any reserved slot or queue system for PvE maps.

That was before multiserver. There indeed was a queue on joining the main map from overflow. It got irrelevant pretty quickly, as soon as people realized that “join in” command could override queue placement.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Say you have been trying to get into a DS meta with your friends. From the luck of the draw, they spawned into an organized map; you did not. You patiently right-click-to-join for 30 minutes and finally… you can’t get in, because the game is reserving the map for someone who rage quit…and by the time you right-click again, someone else got in.

There’s absolutely no difference between someone getting in the free slot before you right away, or a minute later.

Amaimon.7823:

I get it was an april joke back then, but it has no place in this world whatsoever, and only creates a lot of noise in the rest of the world.. isn’t it time we get rid of it?

It’s an annual event Anet devs do not need to put any work into. Thanks to it, stuff happens in the game, and some people get something to do, without any need to spend additional dev effort on it. Things like that are important, because they give Anet time to work on some new stuff, without players complaining that they have nothing to do.

Yes, it is a bit silly, but apparently some people do like it. And while personally i don’t really like it, if it really withdraws dev attention from raiding, it can’t be that bad.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Gee, there are many cool skins locked behind content I’m not interested in.

They are not the legendary armor skin. The only one.

It’s not a matter of locking out a single skin. It’s a matter of locking out a whole gear category. Yes, that armor does not offer higher stats, and its QoL effect is not really useful to everyone, but still it’s the armor that, by the mere fact that its name is colored purple, is the most important armor in the game.

Again, as Vayne said, it’s a matter of perception. By saying “you’re not worthy of that armor set”, you are sending a message telling all those people “you’re second-class citizens”. Many people are seeing it exactly like that. And if you have chat with some raiders (or even see some of the more extreme pro-raid posters on this forum), you will see that this view is shared among at least a part of raiding community as well. In fact, there are people for whom raids are interesting only because they divide the players into first and second class citizens (and the more painful and visible that division is, the better).

You, personally, you may not think of yourself as a second class citizen just because you don’t raid. There are people that think of themselves that way. There are people raiding that think of you that way. And, based on some dev statements, it seems that there are devs that think that way as well.

Miellyn.6847:

And what about WvW and sPvP players that absolutly hate open world? You are also part of an exclusive club with all legendary weapons with and after HoT.

Ah, the difference is that i’m all for WvW and sPvP players getting their own avenue of obtaining those. Raiders on the other hand…

jihm.2315:

they want the rewards of raiders without raiding its like me wanting bifrost without crafting it

You can buy bifrost from TP, remember?

Sykper.6583:

I know you do realize that there is a substantial voice for the easy-modes being an alternative for these rewards. For instance, Raiders have given their opinion a while ago about not being opposed to having Legendary Armor being made available in another area of the game (a different skin though) and that simply isn’t enough apparently.

It’s not enough, because, let’s be honest, what are the chances of Anet doing a second set of legendary armor anytime soon, considering how long it takes them to do the current one?

If there was an actual, real chance of getting a second set of legendary armor throughout non-raid means, lot of complains would go down. Unfortunately, that chance currently is somewhere around nil.

Nocturnal Lunacy.8563:

Vukorep.3081:

Because magic ofc!

Also nobody urinates in the world of tyria..did you see any toilets around?

IKR how is this sustainable?

Magic!

maddoctor.2738:

Vayne.8563:

Dungeons are nothing like raids in reality, no matter what was said. And again, challenge to developers is often very different from challenges to players.

Yes but for a limited time they were.

Only because people weren’t fully geared and levelled up yet. Try to run dungeons with a pug of level 40 players in blues and greens, and they won’t be all that easy even now.

Tibicia.8315:

I saw it for the first time, tonight, and was horrified. I then spent two hours trying to decide if I would say anything or consider not playing the game for the next few weeks while this current fad wears off.
It may be pixels, but then why not make a mini of kittens being drowned in bag?

Did you try to take a swim with a kitten minipet?
If you did, you are a horrible person.

PS: i also don’t remember what the problem with the plane joke was. Anyone can enlighten me?

Obtena.7952:

I find this thread very odd … I can’t understand how it appears like the OP associated the evolution of the game with it losing it’s identity, implying that having a game that evolves is a bad thing? Perhaps I haven’t played enough MMO’s but … I’ve yet to play an MMO where the devs don’t tries to change a bit to keep the game interesting to it’s veteran players.

Moving forward is not always a good thing. It depends on what’s ahead of you.

That old quote “We’ve stood on the brink of a cliff, but now we’ve made a great leap forward” comes to mind here.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Again, box sales are lacking; Gem Store sales are relatively even.

So NCSoft says. And yet the sale numbers show the totals (box and gem sales) in the last 2 quarters are lowest in the game history.
Make your own conclusion.

maddoctor.2738:

Remember that explorable mode of dungeons was supposed to be their RAIDS?
Remember how the event chains in Orr were supposed to be their RAIDS?

Again, you misinterpret what they were saying then. What that quote meant (there were other posts duing that time) was that in place of raids the game would have explorable dungeons. This never meant that those two things were supposed to fulfill exactly the same role. Quite the opposite – it meant, that the GW2 equivalent of raids was from the beginning meant to be more open than raids.

maddoctor.2738:

Well a few months after release it was evident that neither dungeons nor the event chains in Orr were anything like Raids at all. That led to a mass exodus with the argument “there is no endgame”

Nah, the “mass exodus” was just the content locust leaving. This happened to every MMO game for the past many years. Those people would have left anyway.

OnizukaBR.8537:

He was being sarcastic asking how all those things were nerfed, because just like me, he knows that all those things the other person claimed was nerfed ( dungeons, fractals, pvp rewards) are not nerfed, but buffed.

Dungeons, even with that buff you mentioned, are still at lower reward level than prenerf, so no, you are factually wrong here.

Sartharina.3542:

Ayrilana.1396:

2) The title is not based on actual player guilds fighting with each other.

Yes it was. “The Guild Wars” lore event is merely justification for the game’s title, and an out for when they did start focusing more on PvE content as its own reward instead of stepping stones/training for the GvG endgame.

That is technically true. The name is because GW was originally meant to be a primarily pvp game. What you fail to mention is that this path has been abandoned somewhere around (or even before) launch of the very first campaign for GW1. By the time even idea of GW2 came along any meaning that might have been intended for that name was long, long gone.

SlippyCheeze.5483:

Linken.6345:

So serious raiders would be unhappy to complete thier normal run and a easier run a week for another subset of loot? This aint the 12 ap aday dailies that they have to keep up with mate.

Experience from WoW says, yes, they will absolutely complain about that. Sufficiently so, in fact, that Blizzard changed their approach and made the various difficulties lock each other out, which also provoked a storm of complaint.

We already have a solution for that, which is implemented for daily tiered fractal rewards. It works great there, so no reason not to use it.

OniGiri.9461:

I understand. But would someone regularly tag along on raids if he didnt enjoyed them or at least was interested in them? Because that is all i was interested in.

Sure. Remember, that there is more than one reason to be doing raids, and those reasons are not really related to each other. Enjoyment is only one of those reasons. Even the raiders admit that many people wouldn’t be raiding if not for the lure of legendary armor and unique skins. You can be sure that at least some of those people do not in fact enjoy that content, even if they do it regularly.

Amaimon.7823:

No no no, didn’t you know. Because a bakery opened up in town, all the other shops had to close.

Actually, it is something like that. Remember, that there’s another limited resource other than devs – it’s players.

In many cases what happened is that most guilds ended up with the situation where some players were interested in raids, and others were not. It was likely not a problem in big mass-recruiting guilds, but in those that had been made of real friends it created friction.

Say, there was a group of players that were doing content together up until that point. After raids appeared, they had several possibilities:
1. the players that didn’t like raids could go raiding with others, even if they disliked the content, just to be able to still play together.
2. the players that liked raids could not play them, choosing instead to play with their friends in non-raid content.
3. a split could appear, where some players would start doing raids, while others would remain doing other content. In case where the number of players was too low to support both at the same time, additional tension could be generated.

Additionally, even if all players would want to do raids together, the hard truth is that not everyone is really qualified to do them. For those interested in succesful runs, their less-skilled friends that unintentionally keep dragging them down would be one more source of discord.

If there’s only enough clients around to support the current number of bakeries, then opening one more can lead to closing of some. Or even, to closing of all of them.

otome.2673:

insanemaniac.2456:

pages are useful for grinding out specific armor pieces to complete a set…. if the cost was in line with other acquisition methods (crafting). but it’s more expensive. I think it’s a good idea to keep ascended vendors using pages personally and don’t see a reason anet would change that to pristines or something, so maybe they’ll retune the vendors to something more enticing.

on the other hand, the random drops of ascended gear I’ve gotten over the past 4 years add up to me owning about 12 (or maybe 15) sets now and that’s why I generally pass on working towards a specific gear piece that takes about a week of doing an hour more of repetitive fractals… I just don’t need it. I’m sure a lot of the players who pass are in my boat, perhaps not with quite so many complete sets of gear but still feeling saturated.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/Ascended-Vending-Changes

Well, no real reason to grind pages just to be able to buy ascended gear for prices comparable to crafting. Better keep doing t4’s and wait for that ascended box drop.
And besides pages, the recommended fractals aren’t really rewarding.

Me Kill You.9035:

Yes. If only to get ascended chests (~90g worth each) and accesories.

Those drop from tiered reward chests, not from recommended numbered ones (or at least the drop rate for them on recommended isn’t any higher than outside fractals).

Just so you know (because you don’t seem to understand the difference), “I don’t need an easy raid mode” is not the same as “raids don’t need an easy mode”.

Sykper.6583:

So the question that everyone has to ask is:

At what point does the content become a ‘Player’ issue rather than a ‘Content’ issue?

It’s a player issue if it doesn’t negatively affect the company bottom line and game popularity. Once it starts doing that, it turns into a game issue.

yann.1946:

I think the gamemode should be changed to be more enjoyablefor the target audience not for someone Else.

First you’d want that audience be big enough to support the gamemode. That is why Anet is messing so much with sPvP lately, even sometimes against wishes of pvp veterans. A gamemode that depends completely on a small number of veterans and lack a steady influx of new players is a gamemode that will either be changed eventually, or get abandoned completely.

Feanor.2358:

I don’t understand why experienced players would waste time on this

Because it’s a PUGproof meta. By running it, you don’t have to worry about whether other players you’ll get will end up being as experienced as you are or not.

mtpelion.4562:

Farming, in general, is discouraged by the game’s design in order to build a game that rewards “play how you want”.

There’s enough of reward systems in game that go against that model, that this isn’t a very believable argument.

Linken.6345:

Yes and thats why people want easy mode 100% they dont want to stop after 50% and the raiders want harder 100% they dont want the boring first two bosses so easy mode/ your normal ,our hard mode is what everyone wants.
How can you not see it yet?

They see it, but they don’t want their slice of game to become more popular. And they just assume that casuals will just keep shelling out cash for them to have fun. Out of charity probably, because there’s no other reason for that.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Behellagh.1468:

Fremtid.3528:

The prices went from 20s to 35s a section its insane literally insane.

But first it went from 33s to 24s when MO announced a leather farm, it drifted down to 20s on launch day for the episode.

I guess after that the scuttlebutt laughed off the “so call farm” as too hard or not rewarding enough and since nothing really changed, the price returned to it’s previous range. But it took nearly a month to do so.

Or in other words, it used to be 33s with no practical way to farm you own. Now it’s still 33s and there’s a way to farm your own.

If that way was practical, there would have been an impact on TP price.

mtpelion.4562:

You likely aren’t going to see any price changes due to this farm.

Because other areas of the game have better gold per hour, the majority of players farming leather will be players who are going to use the leather. If they use it, it won’t be sold and thus won’t affect the TP.

But it also won’t be bought, which should have impact. Unless the amounts farmed are not meaningful of course.

Wanze.8410:

Some gods claim, you shouldnt have another god besides them.

Unfortunately, we can’t craft the Statue of Abaddon.