(edited by AuldWolf.7598)
They’re probably only 20 years or so away from ICBMs. Then it’ll be a real party!
I’ve toyed with that idea, too. It’ll be interesting, that’s for sure.
What I really want to see though is a charr space program. Reason? If magic really is bound to Tyria as the lore suggests, then moving to a reasonable distance away from Tyria actually detaches you from that magical source.
If the charr manage to build a weapons platform in high orbit which can’t be touched by magic, then… well, things will get really interesting.
Now I really want to play Guild Wars 3. Charr in spaaaaace.
Except none of that is actually true.
A lot of the failed experiments in the asura content have nothing to do with the Inquest. And if you want to blame them, why do you even have them on your Arcane Council (your leadership)? The difference between the Flame Legion and the Inquest is that the charr consider the Flame Legion to be kill-on-sight, whereas the asura have the Inquest making decisions for their entire race.
So, no, you can’t really blame the Inquest. If nothing else, you’re accomplices by the fact that none of you have bothered to do anything about them. You let them lead you.
As for the gates, they aren’t an asura invention. The magicks for that were already put in place by the gods, who refined magic via the blood stones. There are ancient teleporters in the Crystal Desert which have been around for a very, very long time. All the asura had to do to create this incredible ‘invention’ would be to look at how those teleporters work.
And again, the asura have utter reliance on magic. They handwave things into existence and completion. The charr, on the other hand, have to mine their own materials, understand the physical sciences, and prototype things before rolling them into mass production. The charr have no crutch, they have no ‘magic,’ instead everything they’ve created is by their own hands.
Really, the asura gates (based off of the Crystal Desert teleporters) and the golems (many of which end up malfunctioning and rebelling) are the only two marginally successful asura inventions. Whereas I’ve given a list of what the charr have successfully invented and, in many cases, put into mass production above. Let me pull up that list again.
The charr have to their name: Cannons, guns, tanks, military-grade encryption and ciphers, mortars, cars, airships, fans, gramophones, the printing press, turrets, flamethrowers, alchemical processes, and other things I’m sure to have forgotten.
The asura have to their name: Asura gates, levitation generators, and golems.
Now, it was mentioned in Eye of the North that their generators are dangerous because they suck the life out of the nearby environment. Furthermore, we’ve seen those selfsame generators blowing up and turning into elementals, so they’re not very reliable. And golems tend to frequently malfunction and rebel. Whereas all charr inventions are tested and proven.
Need a further nail in the charr vs. asura coffin?
The charr don’t capture and test on live subjects. Whereas the asura captured and ran tests upon the sylvari. It was only when the sylvari began to scream in anguish from the horrible, torturous experiments did the asura stop and ask whether they should be doing this. They also run experiments on skritt and ettins. You can see the IQ skritt in Rata Sum, as an example. They run exhaustive mental tests on the IQ skritt every day, until it passes out from said exhaustion. That’s just cruel.
The charr will offer you a mercifully quick death if you get on their list of known enemies. Whereas an asura will likely capture and experiment upon you. Apparently the asura being afraid of you is grounds for them to do that (one of the lab assistants running horrible experiments on the ettins says as much).
So, ultimately? The asura are responsible for dangerous experiments, most of which either malfunction, explode, or go horribly awry. Some of which have lead to the torture of sapient, feeling races. The only one that’s been suitable for production on any scale without malfunction is the asura gates, no doubt based upon the Crystal Desert teleporters.
The charr have numerous inventions to their name, all of which have been successful and are completely reliable.
I’m sorry, but what were you saying?
The charr are clearly the winners here, when it comes to intellect. The asura are using magic to create what they have, and dabbling in forces they barely even understand. Whereas the charr are trailblazing the way with their understanding of the physical sciences, biology, alchemy, and so on.
Oh, if I made anyone curious by rambling on about teleporters, have a gander at this:
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Teleporter
They existed long, long before asura gates, and did much the same thing.
(edited by AuldWolf.7598)
I can offer the definitive answer to this!
A legionnaire does indeed lead a warband of soldiers. Usually, this is organised when the charr of a fahrar form a warband, and it tends to remain that way until either a legionnaire is removed for poor service, or until they die, at which point someone else steps up to take the role of acting legionnaire, and then (appointed by a centurion or a tribune) legionnaire.
In the Blood Legion storyline, your legionnaire is Urvan Steelbane. He’s a coward who hides behind his soldiers and ultimately is a poor leader. He doesn’t fight on the field of battle with the rest of his men. Howl the Brazen is his right-hand man (who dies in the cave-in in Barradin’s tomb).
In the Ash and Iron legion storylines, Howl the Brazen is the legionnaire. He dies in the cave-in after Barradin is defeated in his tomb. You take up the role of acting legionnaire, and are soon after promoted to legionnaire.
Ultimately, regardless of legion, the player eventually progresses to the rank of centurion. That means you have more than one warband under your command at that point. Who’s the legionnaire of your original warband? Well, you get to decide that! Though it’s probably going to be your sparring partner.
Eh. I don’t know about the best, but they’re the race I have a preference for. For the following reasons:
- Atheism. They believe in each other, their warband, their legion, and their heroes. They believe in people, not gods.
- Industry. Progress, progress, progress! The charr are very efficient with creating new ways of doing things, and then ensuring that everyone has access to those. See – the combat engineer profession, which the charr invented.
- No crutches. The norn rely on spirits, the sylvari rely on the pale tree, the humans rely on the human gods, and the asura rely on magic. The charr? The charr rely on the charr.
- Pragmatism. The charr aren’t just mindless, warlike beasts. In fact, even before the treaty, unlike the humans the charr (under Smodur’s behest) were willing to let anyone of any race (including humans) into their city if they could prove their worth to the charr. That person could then earn the plebian rank, and own a home on charr land. The charr will accept an ally when they can, and they’re not racists.
- Shenanigans. The charr have, straight up, some of the funniest writing in the game. Whether it’s Dinky or Maverick, or the NPCs, it’s just sublime. And they have a cattlepult. A cattlepult. Have a goosey at this and you’ll see what I mean.
- Writing. The charr have a great sense of purpose in their storylines. You really feel as though you have a place and a purpose, whereas I find the other storylines tend to meander. The charr storyline makes me feel like an important part of an organised, intelligent society. And there are a couple of feels in there for good measure, too. Not to mention some memorable characters.
- Paradigm Shift. The charr represent one of these. Usually, in a fantasy setting, if you have a beast race then they’re almost invariably magical and/or an unorganised, tribal mess. They’re frequently superstitious at best, and (as far as I know) always god worshippers. They’re often behind the curve of other races when it comes to development, too. The charr are opposite to all of these things, and thus they redefine what a beast race can be.
- Originality. There’s nothing like the charr out there in any fantasy setting that I’ve encountered. In books, television, film, or games. Nothing is even remotely similar. You can pick at things that might have one, small facet of the charr, but there’s nothing that really is similar. Trying to compare them is like saying that elves are exactly the same as myconids because they can both be found near trees. It falls apart.
And that’s why I play them. I just like what they are and what they represent. :P
I dooo like the Vigil headpiece. But then, my love of ancient Rome aesthetics has a lot to do with that. I guess it depends upon the person, but if I had to have a helm? I’d go with that.
http://digital-legion.com/index.php?/topic/416-armour-of-the-orders/
That’s not a bad thread showing the armour of the Orders. The Vigil is there, too, of course. Look at that helmet. ’Tis p great.
I can’t help but agree with this. Having generic NPCs is boring, and really, how hard would it be for them to just use the models of the people we know? Throw in a few voice lines, and everyone ends up really happy.
I mean, you could even throw in just the sparring partner choice and a generic NPC (or two) and that’d be fine. It’s just… purely generic NPCs? Eh. Eh, I say. It’s unimaginative and not what I’m used to from ArenaNet. I tend to expect more vision than that from them.
Yep, I wasn’t firing on all cylinders when I wrote my thing (lack of sleep and worry over my cat being ill). But hopefully people got the general gist. Calling them chimeras tends to be a very good descriptor, actually. I hadn’t thought of that.
Kudos to Vormund for citing that. To be honest, I’d go with that. They are, quite generally, just a mix of things.
And kudos to ArenaNet for actually creating a bipedal, sapient chimera.
Oh boy.
I’ve had long discourses with friends (some of whom art) over what they are, specifically. It’s… odd. Anyone mind if I break it down?
Face – Predominantly either feline or canine, the women having some more domestic cat features, whereas the males having some domestic dog (pug) features.
Ears – They’re very bovine. Specifically goat.
Horns – Again, they’re definitely bovine in nature, though some share qualities with herbivorous creatures from outside that genus.
Structure of neck/torso – They’re neckbeasts, and that along with the elongated torso coupled with shorter legs makes them look very, very much hyena.
Tails – These are feline. The women have very snow leopard-y tails, the men have tails like male lions.
Hind paws – The claw shapes are feline, but the shape of the paw itself and where the claws sprout from gives it an almost bear-like quality.
So… I don’t know.
They seem to draw inspiration from a number of elements of the animal kingdom, but I think that rounds up most of them.
@Devildoc
Anyway, that this conversation has started to get ugly (with bizarre misanthropic tones, and the desire to be insensitive in turning people with mental disabilities into charicatures) already, I’ll cut it short there. We’ll have to agree to disagree. I just see Dinky as being a different character than you do. That’s all there is to it.
It’s not about it being ‘too deep for you’ or whatever other nonsense, so toss that idea out right away. It’s just that I perceive him in a different way. As a character in the theatre of war, I personally believe that it would be good storytelling if Dinky’s way of coping was to act a bit goofy. I like understanding the effects that war can have on the mind, and how it can change a person.
I personally find that a more fulfilling storyline. You find having a goofy character who has occasional moments of serendipity fulfilling. That’s fine. We’ll leave it at that.
But again, I just don’t want this to go further, because… like I said, it’s already been a bit questionable, and I’m not going to add any more to it.
We’ll agree to disagree.
(edited by AuldWolf.7598)
Hipsters make me want to vomit.
Then you may have issues with misanthropy. Which isn’t really my problem, is it?
Not to mention, trying to analyze it and claim that Dinky’s doing an act and is really 2deep4u is pretty lame.
Annnd you may also have some personal insecurities, because nowhere did I try to pull a ‘2deep4u’ at you. In fact, the post you’re talking about wasn’t even aimed at you, I was just talking generally.
That you took it personally is telling.
It would sort of ruin the character if Arenanet came out and said he’s really a genius pretending all along.
No, it wouldn’t. It’s like I said, it plays up to the reality of war. See, when you place people in a situation that is truly traumatising, they develop ways of dealing with it. They adapt to the environment they’re in. Seeing soldiers adapt to their environment on the field of battle, and understanding that their militaristic lifestyle actually leaves mental scars, is both poignant and accurate.
How that would ‘ruin the character’ is beyond me.
To me it sounds like you just want to grossly oversimplify Dinky just so that you can have your goofy character. But in my opinion, that’s selling him short, because that’s not how I see him. I have a different interpretation of the character.
You know someone “slow” doesn’t have to be faking it to have moments where they say something really deep and meaningful, especially not in fiction.
I didn’t say that they did, anywhere. That’s a straw-man of your own creation. What I said is that Dinky often appears to be very intelligent in conversations throughout your time with him, but he’s masking it. And over time, as he heals, that mask begins to fade.
That has no relation to or argument with what you’re saying. We just have a different understanding of the character. However, you’re pushing your understanding as the only one anyone can have.
That’s where your failing is. You’re being really bratty and not realising that your opinion is, in fact, just an opinion.
(Edit: Censor got weird about a certain mix of words. Changed the words so that I don’t have ‘kitten’ popping up randomly.)
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TL;DR: What I’m trying to say is that neither of the faction leaders were innocent in Guild Wars. Not Madelbern and his nobles, nor the barmy Flame Legion. You’re seeing it from the perspective of that crazy old king, though, which is where you’re going wrong.
In the middle of those faction leaders, you had people who were either brainwashed to fight, felt they had to fight out of fear for their continued existence, or people who never fought (people you never saw on the field of battle). For example – name one charr female you fought in Guild Wars 1. See my point?
Madelbern and the barmy Flame Legion were a right bunch of crazies. It was all around bad leadership. But if you buy into the perspective of the leadership, then you’re seeing with the same level of clarity that mad old Adelbern had; which is to say – none.
Essentially, Guild Wars 2 centres around people, not the leaders. And you need to play it and understand things from their perspectives. People who’re now free of the barmy Flame Legion, and Madelbern.
Sigh.
The charr were never evil. Even in Prophecies there were hints to there being more to them, and more going on. Essentially it was a campaign of propaganda, and I’m not just talking about the Flame Legion, either. Adelbern and the nobles spoonfed the peoples of Ascalon whatever lies he needed to in order to keep them unified against whichever evil he sought to crush.
Consider, that only years prior, Ascalon had almost been wiped out in the guild wars with Kryta and Orr. The human race on Tyria almost went extinct at that point, that’s how big those wars were. Adelbern was a proud, bloodthirsty warmonger. And he wasn’t going to surrender to the Flame Legion. Oh no. He wanted blood. So the official party line was that anyone who wasn’t an Ascalonian was a vile beast.
Now, keep in mind the visiting Krytan dignitaries. They were bringing supplies and aid. Starving children and sickly elders were behind the Ascalonian walls, and the Krytans were ready to do all that they could to help out. But nope. Any gifts that the Krytans brought had to be enchanted somehow, with some evil curse. Adelbern paranoidly had you check out a sample of their generosity with every mage he had at his disposal. And even still, once it turned out clean, he didn’t trust them.
On the other hand, the Flame Legion were basically using Ascalon as a political launching grounds. They didn’t care much for the humans, in fact, a surrender would have made their lives easier. Think about it. The only reason they invaded Ascalon was to prove their power to the rest of the charr, which aided with keeping control over the rest of the charr legions. It was a purely political move on their part.
Had the humans gone quietly, it would have made the Flame Legion seem more powerful. Ascalon would have been under Flame Legion occupation, but otherwise no worse for wear.
Furthermore. The nobles told us that the charr eat people. Turns out they don’t. The nobles told us that the charr have no mercy and don’t take prisoners. Turns out that the Flame Legion had kept a group of prisoners alive and in good health (good enough to fight) for a decade or so. You can see all this in Prophecies. So it was a political thing on both ends. Anyone keeping an open eye would have picked up on this.
But Adelbern pushed the war. As such, the Flame Legion got ever more and more desperate in their attempts to prove their superiority over humankind. Prisoners ended up in gladiatorial arenas (the Gwen missions), and the charr made a unified push against he gates of Ascalon. At the same time, the charr rebellion was already chipping away at their control, and their numbers.
The charr we see today aren’t under Flame Legion control. They’re just charr. And frankly, aside from being more hard nosed and wary, it turns out that they’re not that different from us. That they actually take care of their lands, and their beasts. Imagine that. No, they’re not mindless monsters that ate people and were bereft of mercy. They never were, even under Flame Legion rule. That was just the Ascalonian line that was fed you to make you want to fight them.
Basically, they were just people who’d been enslaved (thanks Abaddon), and were forced to fight a war. And they were forced to fight by a bunch of bumbling, inept shamans who—if not for the magic of the titans—could have been easily defeated. I mean, we’re talking about how they thought that the correct response to a woman training a small underground of rebels was to punish not only her, but every charr female ever with kitchen duties.
Gee, that’s not going to further inspire women to train in secret and join the rebellion, is it?
These guys weren’t exactly all there. Or very clever.
So the fact of the matter is is that around the time of Guild Wars, the whole thing was a massive mess. A big, huge, ugly mess. On the humans’ side you had the bloodthirsty, idiotic Adelbern, who couldn’t set his pride aside long enough to save his subjects. His son, desiring to do what his father wouldn’t (save his subjects), was cast out and disowned. On the charr side, you had the Flame Legion, whom I’ve explained about above.
And if that’s not enough… the people who remained around were turned into ghosts who were then enslaved to fight for Adelbern, forever. The man was a nutcase. A grade A nutjob. A whacko. Three-fries short of a happy meal. You know, completely bonzo. So now these poor people have to fight for eternity, unendingly. Why? Because they wanted to retreat when Adelbern didn’t.
So you have to understand that there’s a lot of perspective going on, here.
And you’re seeing things from the craaaaaaaaazy perspective of mad, mad ol’ Adelbern. Have fun with that. Or! Understand that things aren’t so black and white, and read up on the lore!
That doesn’t need to be the case!
Keep in mind that Rytlock isn’t of the warband Brim or Stone. He’s just using the classical conventions for titles. In other words, his title is Brimstone. So Sharpnose could simply be a title. The fun thing about the charr is that it’s easy to fit one’s name into it, due to the diversity of their culture.
Psh. No norn would think of insulting an ally like that.
You’re an asura in a norn suit, you are! You’re not fooling anyone! I’m watching you.
:P
@Volkmar
Yes, you would see it both ways. And I actually explained why. In fact, I even went as far as to say that some mix up parts of both as they like.
As for where I got it from? The games, of course. In the original Guild Wars, the one that preceded this one, there were charr. And the charr we encountered used a warband naming schema which involved the warband name being placed first. There were other examples of this in Guild Wars, too. And wherever you saw a warband name, it was always used first, before the claimed name.
In Guild Wars 2, you see it being done both ways. However, it seems that the more progressive charr are choosing to put their warband name last. In fact, this is by far the most common, these days. So in Guild Wars 1, the only way was putting the warband name first (Fierceshot), but in Guild Wars 2, the most common way is putting the warband name last.
Hence classic and modern. The one was used in Guild Wars 1 (250 years ago), the other is used most commonly in Guild Wars 2 (current day). If you play through the three legions and their storylines, you realise just how common the new naming schema is, because pretty much every charr you meet uses the modern style (warband last).
It’s simply something I picked up after extensive play of Prophecies, Nightfall, Eye of the North, and the charr content within Guild Wars 2. Not to mention Ember Doomforge (of the Forge warband) in Ghosts of Ascalon.
Essentially, outside of the game’s lore, it’s a stylistic shift chosen by the writers. The writers thought that it would be cooler in GW2 to have the warband name last. But if you take it within the context of the world of Tyria, it’s a cultural shift. It’s just how the charr have begun using less guttural names, and more posh or Roman sounding ones (Sicaea, Bhuer, Torga, and so on).
(The cultural shift from guttural to posh/Roman sounding names was also covered in the charr lore week.)
So, basically? I just know my stuff. It’s because I eat, sleep, and breathe charr.
Also, I did forget to note that if the person with their warband name first is Blood Legion, then that’s to be expected. Of the charr, the Blood Legion are the traditionalists. This is why Rytlock Brimstone (a Blood Legion charr) chooses not to have the definitive article in his title, whereas a more modernised charr, like Sicaea the Shrouded, would.
Blood does tend to have more traditionalists, whereas Iron has lion’s share of progressive thinkers. Ash tends to be somewhere in-between. I did explain this in my little post article, too!
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You people are either seriously over-exaggerating or you’re getting something different to what I am. Which makes me wonder if it manifests differently for different people…
I happen to get a shouty charr when jumping (I don’t want that gone, you can all deal with that), but I certainly haven’t heard my charr ‘howl like a beaten dog.’ This makes me wonder if there are various levels to this.
Huh.
I picked all of ‘em, and I really can’t play favourites or buy into legion politics (I guess I’m like Rytlock in that regard) because I love all of ‘em! Each legion pretty much has its own winning factors. And I don’t know who they put on charr writing duty, but all of the charr storylines were simply exemplary and so well done. They really give you a feel of what the charr have to deal with on a day to day basis.
And they all really present the kind of conflict-ridden world that the charr live in. It’s not a mostly peaceful world, like ours, where we have super-powers and we enjoy forced peace. No, not at all. It’s a world which is riddled with issues and war. And the charr have ended up very hard-nosed after various groups either trying to commit charr genocide, trying to enslave them, or trying to steal their land.
And all of the legions convey wonderfully what it means to be charr. This is why I ended up deleting the rest of my characters and rolling charr. With the writing of the other characters, it feels like they just didn’t have the same passion there. And with a couple of races it felt phoned in. But the charr stuff was great, and even tugged at the heartstrings occasionally.
But even after the legions, you have Tybalt Leftpaw, who’s a charr and probably the best character in the game. Soooo… again, I’m just going to say that I really, really want to shake the hand of whomever did the writing. It’s exceptional.
Thus… I must honestly choose all of them.
Victory by any cost! Just tip the drink into a nearby plant whilst the norn chugs away. That’s an assured victory. Of course, you may actually have trouble finding a charr willing to do that, because the norn are so blasted likeable that you’d feel bad about cheating them.
I know it’s not much help, but… I think the charr look fine without it. I mean, look at Rytlock. He doesn’t need head gear, and he’s all the more awesome for it.
Heck, in Guild Wars 1, the humans wore charr skins just so they could look as good as the charr heads do by default!
@Mif
It’s still prior to the launch and not relevant versus game content. You picked me up on one word. What I said was ‘if the game content contradicts their statements in interviews, then they’re likely either remembering wrongly, or they changed their minds.’ Instead, you picked me up on one word.
As for the asura. Don’t… just don’t. There are literally tens of incidents within the starting content alone that revolve around experiments going wrong, as the person above me has pointed out. They are astoundingly incompetent. And the game itself portrays them this way. I have nothing to do with that.
The fact of the matter is is that the game is portraying them as bumbling, incompetent, and too eccentric to be useful, and your cognitive dissonance over this is a clamouring noise. But ultimately, versus the content of the game, you have nothing to offer. You know I’m in the right here.
Thus, your posts signify nothing. They’re base trolling.
So, remind me, Mif… why are you in the charr subforum if not to troll charr fans?
You’re very transparent.
TL;DR: If you want to whine about your cognitive dissonance (oh no, the asura didn’t turn out to be the geniuses I thought they were) and troll the other races, go do it in the asura subforum? You’d likely have more support, there. But you’re doing it here, which means that you’re just being a troublemaker. Of course charr fans are going to support the charr. Well, imagine that!
(edited by AuldWolf.7598)
I wrote a guide to naming charr characters which may prove helpful.
You could go with Ignotus, which is a latin word meaning ‘unknown’ and fits with the Roman style of modern charr naming (such as Sicaea).
Oh, and don’t forget that one single Charr in the Black Citadel Imperator Core (bottom floor) that, upon speaking to, is openly pondering about the idea of using electricity for power, instead of steam.
Yep.
And as the charr function now, in the game, this idea would be put through peer review, and would be tested extensively to perfection before being rolled out on a large scale.
The asura, as we see them now, would selfishly keep this in a lab, with endless experiments involving it blowing up or turning bad. Like that one generator that explodes and turns into an angry, ticked off fire elemental who wants to kill everyone. That worked out so well. Or all of those rebelling golems, that too. Or any number of failed experiments from the asura content.
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Well “lore nerd” you’re contradicting the GW2 lore masters.
Heh, nice troll. (And you are trolling. The obnoxious nature of your closing paragraph makes your trolling obvious.)
Anyone with any sense would realise that the lore leading up to release can change, and never stays the same. I’m talking about canon lore from the two books and the game itself, as it is now. Those writing the lore can change their minds between interviews. I’ve seen them do it.
I’m basing what I said upon the charr and asura personal storylines, dynamic events, renown hearts, and the two books. You’re basing your knowledge upon old interviews. If I were someone else reading this, I know whom I’d put my money upon being correct.
Essentially, you’re saying that the in-game content is wrong and disagrees with the loremasters. Which I find to be a ludicrous concept. I see it as that they’ve simply changed their minds.
I think it’s telling that a non-trivial chunk of the charr content deals with the Flame Legion trying to sabotage the incredibly effective Iron Legion, whereas a non-trivial chunk of the asura content deals with experiments gone wrong. Due to the self-sobtage that ineptitude tends to cause. (It’ll be perfect this time, honest! Those bumblers.)
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Oh, the asura. Always overcompensating.
Let’s look at the facts.
Charr
- They invented cannons (the Luxans only had a very crude type of bombard), guns, tanks, military-grade encryption, mortars, cars, airships, fans, gramophones, the printing press, turrets, flamethrowers, alchemical processes, and lots of other things which are now commonplace in Tyria.
- Every prototype they create is pragmatic, functional, and thus able to be mass-produced.
- And they are mass-produced, in their factory cities!
- The charr mine all their own materials, using machines of their own construction, and manual labour. They’re truly self-sufficient in this regard.
- The charr can process and purify most (or all) metals.
- The charr use a scientific process of understanding, thus their creations don’t rely upon any kind of crutch (like… oh, say… magic).
- The charr believe in cooperation which goes beyond politics. If you put three hundred charr in a hall, you’d end up with brilliant plans and fantastic ideas, all of which could be put to use.
- The charr believe in only self-reliance and the worth of their fellows.
Conclusion: The charr are not only intelligent, but completely legitimate. Their intellect comes from actually doing things, rather than being all talk. Their real world equivalent would be the scientist who always gets results.
Asura
- The asura have managed to invent gates and golems.
- Almost every asura invention is a massive failure, and tends to either explode or go horribly awry.
- The asura rely entirely upon incantations and handwavium. If this was taken away, they’d become helpless and vulnerable.
- The asura cannot mass-produce, so they have to contract out to other races to build for them (see: the new gate complex in Lion’s Arch).
- They have no ability to work with anything other than stone, and rely upon the charr for their metals (they send expeditions to the Black Citadel to try and figure out how the charr purify metals, but so far have had no luck reproducing it).
- The asura have no true concept of proper scientific methods (only romanticised mad scientist nonsense), and merely use magic to ape scientific progress. Without magic, they’d be useless.
- The asura have no concept of working together, and if you put three ausra in a room, you’d end up with one dead, one blind and dumb, and one swearing innocence.
- The asura religion almost borders on scientology in how they’ve tried to actually turn science into a religion. And that’s what they believe in. This is what shows their lack of true intellect more than anything. If they had any idea of how proper science works, they wouldn’t be trying to turn it into a system of faith.
Conclusion: The asura are amateurs who dabble in forces that they have serious trouble even beginning to understand, forces which were already refined to perfection for them (by the human gods). Their real world equivalent would be the pseudo-intellectual script kiddie; the sort that tries to sound intelligent whilst only having the barest understanding of the words they’re using or things they’re tinkering with.
The asura are basically annoying poseurs. They always sound like it. They’re talking with big words about their fancy inventions. Those inventions then blow up in their small faces. Whilst the charr continue to get results and create progress.
And that’s from a lore nerd who’s spent a good amount of time with both races. :P
(edited by AuldWolf.7598)
I tend to revolve my characters around a single obsession. Most of the time my guys are fighting things, as charr, so they need something to keep them sane. For example, one of my guys likes fixing things. So whenever he sees something that’s broken, he stops to fix it. And he sees everything, every potential problem, as just an issue to fix. And that everything does have a fix for it, if you understand the problem.
Usually, by having a core facet to the personality like that, you can work outwards and figure out what the character is going to be like. What their weaknesses and strengths will be. Where they derive what charisma they have from, and what plagues them, what haunts them, what makes them real.
@Mutiny
I have never seen this. Can you give an in-game example of a charr NPC in a desperate rush to get somewhere? One that I can see for myself? Even in the Diessa Plateau, you tend to see groups on very definite patrol routes, even taking a while to sit down every now and then after a bout of fighting. You don’t really see any trying to rush anywhere.
Sounds like a classical name, the charr you’ve been hanging out with are real traditionalists! And hey, it works for the character. I like it!
As for Dinky being ‘special?’ I don’t buy it.
I love Dinky, but I don’t buy it. He’s often wise, and clever, and cracks a good joke. I think that he ‘pretends’ to be special so that his fellow warband members won’t take offence at him protecting them on the field of battle, because that’s just ‘Dinky being Dinky.’ It’s the sacrifice he’s made.
There are often hints in the writing that Dinky is way smarter than he pretends to be. That the whole goofy thing is just a finely crafted act, and one that he only ever rarely slips up on. It’s part of the charr personality, and something I’ve been trying to explain within this thread.
The charr are in a very precarious situation, and everyone does what they need to to fit in, or to cope, or to just excel at whatever situation they find themselves in. Maverick is a front-liner, a warrior, so he talks big to keep his confidence up. He knows it’s ironic, but he also knows that if he falters and doesn’t make that strike when he needs to, then one of his warband might die for that mistake.
You really have to get inside their heads to understand them. But that I’ve been thinking about this so much just shows how great the charr writing is across the board. They really get the feel of a war-time scenario down pat. Way better than games like Call of Duty do. You can actually feel the conflict, and you can see what people are doing to deal with it.
The charr aren’t perfect, emotionless robots. They’re people. And people deal with things in their own way.
Well like I said, I didn’t want a serious boasting partner either, regardless of gender.
That wasn’t the point of the post. Reading comprehension helps. The point I was making was that Maverick isn’t serious, regardless. He’s not actually boasting. You have to listen to what he’s saying it and how he’s saying it.
My point was that you automatically assumed that his boasts were serious.
As for Dinky? I’m a massive fan. I believe in the ‘Why did you roll a charr?’ thread I said that there needs to be a Dinky fan club. What I am saying is that it’s kind of silly to smack-talk the other warband members, because they’re all good, and the writing and handling thereof is beautiful.
Dinky is one of a good bunch, not a coal in the rough.
Now that’s just straight up trolling, I’m sorry. Please, be mature with discussions.
I’m saying that I like what’s unique about the charr, and their shouty nature in and outside of battle is a part of them. If you’ve seen me post around here, you’d know that I’m pretty much a charr lore buff, and someone who plays the charr exclusively.
I just don’t want them to become some flavourless thing just because certain parts of their nature tends to bug or annoy certain types of person. And if I have to sink to a lower level – that type of person is a boring person.
The asura don’t have the lion’s share (so to speak) of unique behaviours.
I’m just sharing my opinion. Which happens to be: Leave my charr alone. :|
Welp, the majority are on the side of loving the run. Good to see, good to see.
As I’ve said elsewhere, sometimes I feel that every unique aspect of the charr, including their juxtaposition between raw intelligence and equally raw bestial power, would be taken away in favour of a flavourless, uninteresting, intellectually small beast race if we let the vocal minority have their way.
I hear this a lot. On tumblr, from friends, and more. Most people I’ve talked to actually actively dislike the tengu. A lot of that has to do with the new goblinoid look of them (the ears), but they just don’t like it. There’s almost a consensus of ‘get rid of those tengu and give us kodan’ everywhere I’ve seen.
Someone needs to do a tumblr/reddit survey of this to see just how prevalent this attitude is, because I’m fairly sure that it’s pretty prevalent.
-1.
This isn’t WoW. The game doesn’t need to be a massive grind.
You’d make a mint on something like this.
People like getting big, for fun. Not in a way that would impact the game, but just for fun. People love it. Such as having a size increase via the party box, for example.
If you had an endless growth tonic on the store, which… say, had a cooldown of five minutes but wasn’t consumable (had infinite reuses), you could likely sell such a thing for 1,200 gems. I think that endless transformation tonics (into cool things) would actually sell really well, too.
I hate consumables.
I’ve always felt that they were a con and won’t be suckered in by them. You may want to do a market survey on this, but a lot of people won’t buy consumables out of principle. However, those same people would pay a premium for a permanent item.
For example, if the store sold (at quite a cost) a transmutation stone which had infinite charges, I would buy that. But I wouldn’t buy consumable transmutation stones. If the store sold an armour set (at quite a cost) that worked like the Hall of Monuments armour skins (where whenever you consume them, they’re replaced, and never go away), I would buy that. But I wouldn’t buy consumable armour skins.
This is why the only things I’ve bought from the store thus far are the chef and pirate outfits, and character slots. This bothers me, because I love this game, and I’d like to spend more money on it. However, you’re not actually providing me with a lot of things that I want to buy.
So I think the game needs more premium items.
My mindset on why I won’t buy consumables: It’s like a subscription, innit?
I mean, really. If you buy something, you don’t want that thing to just go away. I see buying consumables as being no different than paying for a subscription. I refuse to do either. I like quid pro quo. If I buy something, I want to actually have that something. It may be an old fashioned attitude, but of the people I’ve spoken with, it’s a common one.
Whether it’s NPCs in renown missions, dynamic events, or the personal story, they’re… quite weak and useless. They’re frequently one-shotted, and what I tend to see all the time is dead NPCs everywhere. You revive them, they get one-shotted, then you revive them again. Their only use at the moment seems to be a corpse-related flavour.
I don’t genuinely think that that’s supposed to be their function, though. However, they’re just not powerful enough to cope with the content they’re in, regardless of the content. In the Diessa Plateau, for example, the Blood Legion fire/swing too slowly, and do too little damage, and have very little health. This means that they may get one attack off before being one-shotted.
I think this really impacts negatively upon the polish of the game. Ironically, it doesn’t show a living world, as ArenaNet might desire, but a dead one. There are just… NPC corpses everywhere. And having the NPCs live a little longer really wouldn’t be so bad. Again, in the Diessa Plateau, I’ll rez someone, they’ll do a three second ‘patrol,’ and then get one-shotted.
This can’t be the ‘living world’ that you envisioned, ArenaNet. And like I said, NPCs seem peculiarly weak across the board, even in the personal storyline. I’m leaning towards saying that this is a bug, and someone tweaked a core template for how NPC powers work, and didn’t take everything into account, and has now made NPCs far too slow and weak across the board. I can’t prove that, but that’s what it feels like.
So here’s a suggestion: Even if you didn’t want them attacking much, you could increase their health a thousandfold without making them overpowered. Their attacks can then still be weak, but they’ll add to the ‘living world’ flavour that Guild Wars 2 is supposed to have.
If they simply weren’t as easy to knock over in one hit, they’d function much better.
Sigh.
See, that post above sounds almost like it’s saying that it’s wrong for a woman to sound strong and independent. Only men are allowed that, it appears. Yeesh, that line of thinking is right at home with the Flame Legion. :p And the delivery of both is very different. Euryale is more mothering in her own way, making joke-ish threats about what she’d do to anyone who’d dare think of harming her cubs. Whereas Reeva is the sassy youf, cracking wise in a big way (likely as a coping mechanism).
Also, Maverick boasts in an ironic way. It’s hard to explain unless you actually have a full grasp of ironic humour, but it becomes more and more apparent as time goes on. He’s very, very silly with his boasts. If you want a serious boast, talk to an asura. Maverick is just talking big to be a dorky goof. He’s almost a hipster charr, and a total nerd because of it.
But yes, if you just judge Maverick on face value based upon the first mission with him, you’re not going to get the big picture. But suffice it to say, the charr are in a relatively stressful situation where the next day could be their last, where this mission could be the one where they die. They have different ways of coping. Maverick’s is to be an ironically boast-ful hipster-charr.
Really. I swear. Maverick is like… I’m going to be Duke Nukem! …ironically!
(Edit: Huh, the censor trips over part of boast-ful. …that’s odd.)
(edited by AuldWolf.7598)
This is because the player is trying to move from point A to point B quickly, with their weapon sheathed. For simple speed of movement, that’s the quickest they have. However, when using their weapons, they need to be upright.
The charr are a vigilant race (note the sniper perches on the left and right on the inside of the Plains of Ashford Black Citadel gate), as such, they tend to have a lot of patrols. Those patrols are trained to be ready for anything. They keep their weapons at the ready and patrol with almost clockwork accuracy over the set area of ground that their warband has been ordered to protect.
Now, imagine those patrols running everywhere on all fours. It would be akin to seeing policemen on the beat actually jogging their beat. I hope that’s as silly a mental image for you as it is for me. The charr walk their beat with a slow, determined pace. That’s why you don’t see them running on all fours. They’re doing a patrol circuit, not in a rush to get anywhere right now.
Eh. Amusingly, misotheists is a common misconception. They don’t hate the gods, as that would actively mean that they’d be seeking out anything godlike and killing them. They’re far too pragmatic for hate of that ilk. In fact, if you can prove you’re no threat to the charr, then the charr are quite happy to buddy up with you, and even use their military to protect you. There are plenty of instances within the lore to support this.
No, it’s not hate. It’s more that they don’t recognise gods as gods. So atheism is a correct viewpoint. I mean, if a powerful being landed on earth tomorrow and claimed to be a god, would the atheists suddenly stop being atheists? No, they’d be incredibly sceptical and cynical, to a point that goes well beyond being merely ‘dubious.’ They’d still not accept that a god exists, that simply a powerful being exists that calls itself god.
That’s how the charr think. They believe that gods are an innately fallacious concepts, that a god is a false thing by its very nature. They recognise that powerful creatures exist, and they believe that if a powerful creature were to challenge them, they’d meet that challenge. Whether this creature calls itself a ‘god’ or not is irrelevant. A powerful being does not a god make. An atheist recognises this, a charr recognises this.
It wasn’t until I’d spent some time with the charr culture in game that I understood how they felt about it. And it is true atheism. It’s a show-me-a-god-and-I’ll-show-you-a-fool attitude. With the fool being the person willing to believe that a powerful creature is a ‘god.’
The charr believe that no creature exists which can constitute that which is commonly attributed to gods – such as omnipotence, omnipresence, omniscience, and so on. Therefore, if a being cannot be these things, gods cannot exist. Atheism. Nothing to do with hate.
To explain a little bit more…
Look at the grawl. The grawl will worship anything, they’ll call anything a ‘god.’ The charr are the stark opposite of this. A god basically means a creature which is attributed with creation, has some kind of sway over reality, and is deserving of reverence. The charr recognise that creatures exist which call themselves gods, but the charr do not believe that they are gods.
As I said, the charr see ‘god(s)’ as a fallacious concept, that such a thing doesn’t exist to their knowledge, and that to believe in it is to be taken advantage of by somewhat powerful flim-flam men. To be like the grawl, or like the humans, to be made weak by their faith (as Rytlock speaks of). The charr believe in being self-reliant, and reliant on the people you know you can trust. They put large amounts of importance upon interpersonal bonds.
Whereas other races build statues to their gods, or their avatars, or their spirits, the charr build statues of their heroes, and people worthy of note.
To understand charr atheism, you have to understand their world and culture. And I hope I’ve done something to shed some light upon both with this post. I am trying my best. But in the truest sense of atheism, the charr are atheists. They refuse to believe in anything that calls itself ‘god,’ and they don’t believe that anything can actually claim that title that exists.
(edited by AuldWolf.7598)
You can tone down the teeth in the character creator. Big teeth is a choice. I just wanted to throw that out there.
As for the newer Rytlock, it goes with the attitude adjustment they gave him. Look at the old Catacombs intro, compare it with the new one. Rytlock was redesigned to be much more charismatic, and more notably, noble.
I really, really like both his new look and his new personality. They both make him stand out amongst the charr. And his progressive, forward-thinking nature means that he’s a good future choice for Imperator of the Blood Legion, which would bring the Blood Legion itself more in-line with modern thinking.
Why is everyone against the more awesome, unique elements of the charr?
Geez, if the vocal minority had their way, they’d be tribal idiots, they’d have human voices, and they’d look like worgen (which is a better analogy than I originally used).
(edited by AuldWolf.7598)
Last thing we need here is a trolling thread.
Don’t bite, people. Let’s keep it civil.
Okay, I’m going to start flagging these as duplicates.
There are a few threads like this already, and every time this comes up, the majority response is no, don’t fix it. As such, I feel that people are just starting new threads to avoid the majority response.
I wouldn’t object to the option, but frankly I think that most of the boots are absolutely fine. Even the low level ones. They’re certainly better than the leg bands that most beast races get in other games.
I also have to -1 this, too. What is it with people and wanting to rob the charr of their character?
No, you can’t have boots. No, you can’t have goofy sounds.
What next, are people going to complain about their goofy lines? No, you can’t have your charr saying that they’ve obtained the awesome.
Play another race? It’s for the best.
Dinky is a little marvel. He’s definitely one of the most memorable characters in the game, and deserves to return. I don’t know what it is, but between Tybalt and Dinky, I think we charr have been spoiled a bit with (what is hands-down) the horse’s share of the best character writing in the game.
I’ve tried out the other races and I almost feel sorry for them by comparison. Even if solely because they don’t get Dinky (or Maverick, or Reeva). They don’t know what they’re missing out on.
As for the rest of you, you seem to have the idea!! It’s not that hard to understand, it’s just that the concepts are more fleshed out than in most MMORPG lore. This actually fascinates me, and it pleases me that there’s so much depth to the naming.
@Zenyatoo.4059
That’s information on its own isn’t entirely true. In fact, to a degree, that’s actually misleading.
The fahrar covers many topics, even farming. It’s become common for the fahrar to let teh cub discover and choose what they’re good at. This is mentioned by charr and cubs in the Black Citadel. Essentially, the claimed name (as I mentioned in my post above), is claimed upon ‘a notable achievement’ within the fahrar within their field of interest.
Now, this can be combat, but it can also be planning, engineering, or anything else that would be useful to the charr. This is what I referred to as ‘claimed names’ in my prior post. I didn’t link it directly to combat because the charr no longer solely derive names from combat.
For example: An Ash Legion fahrar cub might earn a name based upon their ability to move silently. So their claimed name might be ‘shadow.’ If they were part of the ‘Curse’ warband, in a modern culture naming scenario, she’d be named Shadowcurse (as her last name).
You have to consider that there are three legions, and the perspective you saw was Blood Legion only. You need to take into account that there are other perspectives to be understood. And each of those perspectives could inject different ideas as to what a claimed name could be derived from.
They sound similar. Though the truth is is that (for the Iron Legion, at least) the charr are far, far more intelligent than the average krogan. When you take into consideration their well-organised society, their antitheist nature, their ability to prototype, build, and mass produce without having to use borrowed alien technology (the Salarians)… ?
Well, no. Not really. The krogan are more like Americanised versions of the Warhammer 40k orks. The charr are simply too intelligent to be compared to either.
Anyone else think that it would be fairly wonderful if this was adjusted to reflect in-game time rather than just spinning randomly? I almost have the feeling from looking at it that that was the original idea, but someone got lazy. >_>