They have both energy and CDs, as Muchacho said. They also have upkeep skills, meaning that they can end up having neutral or even negative regeneration. It will be more like GW1 Assassin than Thief, where you build up energy and then expend it via certain combos. Although not quite as faceroll since you can’t bind your combo to be 1→2→3→4→5 (RIP Assassin).
Actually revenants will not all have those two legends, those were just the two they showed off.
I don’t think that’s ever happened to me. I assume you get knocked down when you’re feared or start running if you’re knocked down?
I have no clue lol. But I would assume it is the same: one of them will probably have a “priority”, depending on which was applied first/last or something.
thats why on skillbar it looks like you change weapon when equiping focus trait but with greater marks you see nothing?
Yes, exactly.
But Unholy Feast removes Aegis XP
Maybe it was something else. But I do specifically remember UF getting blocked when nothing else would have been.
Wonder what happens if you’re feared and taunted. Which way do you run?
What currently happens when you are knocked down while already feared, or feared while knocked down? Probably the same.
It isn’t like you and I have different code. When you have a skill on your hotbar, it references a set of code within the game’s database. That set of code will contain all the information needed to make your skill appear in game and have its effects and whatnot. However, some traits don’t simply modify a skill, they actually reference an entirely separate set of code. This is especially true of weapon skill changes.
For example: I equip Focus, and my skillbar updates with Reaper’s Touch and Spinal Shivers, which both reference their relevant skills in the database. Then I equip the focus trait: this trait does not take the skills and change their CDs and range, it actually equips two skills with the same name, but that reference totally different things in the database. It is as though I unequipped my focus and equipped a totally different off-hand weapon, while the skills are nearly identical, as far as the game is concerned they are totally different sets of skills. This is why when changes are made to weapon skills, there often are bugs that make it so the traited versions don’t have the new functionality: the devs forgot to add that new feature to the traited versions of the skills in the database.
Hope that explains it.
Only true against Necros though. A Necro would absolutely blast you if you tried that, but the other common condi builds don’t tend to have great removal.
I mean, the best thing I can see out of all of this is it confirms that ANet is okay with adding these features into the game. In addition, ANet is really big on copypastaing mechanics from one profession to another, with small “flavor” changes.
Not that I’m getting my hopes up too much, but it could be good. Either way I’m planning to immediately level a revenant to 80 when the expansion hits, already gathering up my consumables for it.
Anet, please look at boon removal priorities on the various skills. If you want to add new boons that’s cool, love the idea, but they need to be removable, and you need to rebalance the removal priorities of skills. We even have boon removal skills (Unholy Feast) being blocked by Aegis…
I didn’t say it didn’t have to be made stronger. The 3 skill shouldn’t be made stronger (except for a blast finisher at most), but the 1 skill definitely has to be made better and arguably even the 2 could use a little help. But do that within the power/vuln-stacking theme of the weapon.
It already has a good little kit going: the auto stacks vuln, setting you up for a strong 2 burst, and 3 debuffs the enemies, allowing you to kite/chase and punishes focus. Work on making that kit better, not adding more stuff for it to do.
^ I see no point in a melee staff except to fill the scythe fetish we all seem to have.
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/revenant-the-master-of-the-mists/
Revenant is getting two big things, both of them being things that we’ve wanted for ages: meaningful condition manipulation and “upkeep” skills. Upkeep was exactly how I was hoping they’d implement Orders, allowing us to “toggle” on an AoE buff skill that had a degenerating LF/HP cost. And their Demon form not only has a set of what are essentially corruption skills, but has the ability to copy conditions from themselves to enemies in the area; an idea for a trait that has been thrown around a lot.
Also, there is a new boon that gives temporary condition immunity (a la berserker stance), and a condition that is the opposite of quickness.
Now, I’m not saying this to complain that “they got it and we didn’t Q.Q”, but I wonder if this means we might see similar changes in the future as well. Thoughts?
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My bets on reaper, sure its a human thing… but honestly… isn’t necromancers already very much connected to Grenth? like Mesmers to Lyssa? Also it would make sense for greatsword in that when you think of a more traditional reaper, they wield a long melee weapon of some sorts. I also think Medium would kind of be stepping on the feet of Revenant who channels the power of the heroes of the mists, as a Medium communes with the dead and would presumably uses their power… its far to similar to me.
I know the reapers of Grenth blah blah blah… I think the reapers of Grenth are just super powered reapers that have ascended to a god-like status by the help of Grenth, less powerful reapers could likely exist.
Grenth is the reason we are allowed to have minions, so yes he is pretty core to Necromancers, even if not all the races worship him.
There will be more specializations released over time, acting like secondary professions. You will be able to change between all of hte ones you have unlocked any time you are out of combat, but while in combat having a specialization locks you out of anything unique to other specializations.
Actually yeah fair point, Spectral Attunement really has no place in Curses right now.
This is going to sound insane, but I remember you saying that back in the day, and I remember saying that it only seemed to happen in WvW. It’s all coming back, it’s all coming back to me now.
Not sure it’s a big deal at this point and I have no idea if it’s still the case, but this all felt really familiar.
Its possible. Many changes to skills actually work by giving an entirely different skill in the code-base, so for whatever reason you might have a Spinal Shivers that never had the aegis change added to it.
Well of Blood: Reduce recharge to 35s. Changed to water field. Grant 1 stack of might to allies in the field per pulse for each bleeding enemy adjacent to them.
Its a bit overly complicated, and far too strong in many situations. With just 4 bleeding enemies this would fully stack might on your team.
Signet of Vampirism: Recharge reduced to 30s. Passive changed to ‘Regenerate X amount every 3 seconds, increasing with every 10% of your health missing’. Active now spreads to nearby foes when the target dies. Scaling of active’s lifesteal increased from 7% to 15%.
Interesting idea, although probably not the change that we need. Love the increasing heal, a spreading active would be interesting although I’d debate the usefulness of it compared to how much potential power it would add in “ideal” situations.
Heals are very conservative in their defensive nature across professions, but the addition of Arcane Brilliance and Signet of Vampirism got me thinking the addition of more risk vs reward in this niche could be something Necro can offer.
These aren’t really risk/reward changes. They both reduce CDs (lower risk) and flat increase the strength of the skills (higher reward).
Blood Is Power: Becomes a channel similar to Guardian’s ‘Empower’. Bleed yourself with each pulse and grant 3 might stacks for 12s to nearby allies (untraited banner range), duration increases by 10% for every 10% of your health missing. Grant fury each time you are struck whilst channeling (1 sec internal cd).
This is a nerf to PvE actually, because to grant stacks you have to lose nearly all of your DPS. Wouldn’t mean much in PvP either. It works for Guardian because a staff build is support and a loss in DPS is minimal (pretty sure staff isn’t used in PvE though), plus the channel heals.
Epidemic: Becomes ground targeted, range reduced to 1000, recharge increased to 25s. Enemies in target area share unique conditions, prioritising higher stacks and durations. (eg. 3 enemies: Enemy 1 has a single stack of bleed for 10s and poison for 10s, Enemy 2 has 3 stacks of bleed for 5s and burning for 3s, Enemy 3 has burning for 5s. The result is Enemy 1 receives burning for 5s, Enemy 2 receives poison for 10s and Enemy 3 receives 3 stacks of bleed and 5s of burning). Each new unique condition applied inflicts 2 stacks of vulnerability for 8s, vulnerability applied on self increased to 5 stacks for 10s.
Epidemic is just fine as it is.
Corrosive Poison Cloud: Radius increased to 300 now inflicts 1 stack of vulnerability for 5s each time an enemy is critically hit within the cloud. Allies have a condition burnt
I’m assuming this was accidentally truncated. Otherwise it is an interesting idea to add a vulnerability mechanism to it.
Spectral Grasp: Recharge reduced to 25s. Now acts similar to binding blade, shoot up to 5 out at nearby enemies and pull them to you. Retains flat 15% life force gain as long as one enemy is hit.
Grasp is basically fine as is balance wise. The biggest issue is unreliability and lack of synergy with current builds.
Spectral Armour: Recharge reduced to kitten .
Going to assume the recharge was 45, as that paired with the s for seconds gets a bleep due to this wonderfully idiotic censorship we have (I hate to break it to you but a T rated game shouldn’t have to bleep a benign anatomical reference). Isn’t needed, SA is fine as is.
‘Spectral Attunement’ Trait: Replaces weakening precision as GM trait. Grants additional functionality to spectral skills and gain life force on their use. Spectral grasp: now unblockable, at full life force when used chill duration is doubled on affected enemies. Spectral Walk: condition duration is reduced by 20%, allies who touch the trail gain 3s of protection (non-stacking). Spectral Wall: reflects projectiles, grants fury to allies entering if cast whilst at full life force. Spectral Armour: Grants 3s of stability to you and nearby allies also gain the protection.
Interesting ideas. Doesn’t really change anything in PvE, but still interesting ideas.
Broad uses was one of axe’s original issues. It did a lot of stuff and it did all of it really badly. Adding condition damage to a weapon with absolutely no condition damage synergy makes no sense.
Aegis doesn’t block Focus 5, Blackmoa and I messed around with boon removals a while back and Aegis doesn’t block any of our boon removals (except Axe 3), and in some cases it doesn’t even count towards one of the boons removed.
There are a few skills that have issues like that. Axe 3 can be blocked by aegis despite being a boon removal, something none of our other boon removals have issues with.
My second 80 was an Ele. Lots of fun to play, infinitely better when I want to actually be useful to my team.
You can hit 4-7k pretty easily with other attacks, not sure what the problem is since it is on a massive CD elite. If this was back in the days of the 17k auto attack + procs I’d have a different opinion.
Judging from the Warrior burst skill changes, I don’t think it’d be crazy if the Necromancers didn’t lose DS but instead gained other uses for LF, while still having DS. But I think its kind of fun to think about what they’d have to give us to make up for it. Also I notice people being really unoriginal, all you have to do is provide similar utility to make up for what was lost.
Death Shroud gives: Health and a type of health regeneration tied to LF, burst protection, ranged offense, gap closer, CC/interrupt, AoE. Arguably some of that isn’t as important, but the offense, gap closer, CC, and defense are really big. Also, we don’t want to step on the toes of other professions’ mechanics too much either.
One idea:
Channel your Life Force to heal yourself. Block all attacks while channeling, losing 20% LF per second and gaining HP for the LF consumed (HP gained = LF consumed directly, so SR would give you more healing, maybe increase it with healing power as well). Acts a bit like the Guardian heal but the heals are constant so even if interrupted you still get some heal, but the skill goes on full CD. Gives us both HP and mitigation, both of which would be sorely lacking without DS. You can also manually cancel it after 1s.
Drawing a blank on more, I’ll revisit this though because I think it is an interesting excersize.
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Foot in the Grave just doesn’t fit anything very well. The stability uptime is too “powerful” for anything less than a GM, but that power is nearly impossible to actually use in any remotely useful way except to secure stomps. Power builds can’t really afford to give up such a massive damage boost (even tanky builds can use the damage to become relevant damage threats, whereas FitG is basically just a way to secure stomps), condi builds can use positioning to mostly mitigate the threat anyway, and few builds can afford going that deep in the tree.
The one nice niche thing it does is allow you to break stun chains. But even then the trait would be in a much better place if it channeled more power into a more specific use.
Any professional response to my complain?
Stop being bad and you’ll realize that turret engi isn’t that good.
Homogenization isn’t good. Axe doesn’t need a siphon attached, it needs more damage on auto.
+1, reduced cast times (where appropriate) makes a lot of sense. Basically 3/4s for any normal skill is time enough, 1s + should only be saved for really high impact abilities, and 1/2s should be used for abilities that have a noticeable traveling animation or aren’t dodgeabe (like Locust Swarm).
A few could use CD reduction too. Stuff like this isn’t a “huge” buff, but it is really nice to play with.
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There is nothing wrong with disagreeing. It has sparked far more discussion about this topic than ever would happen if everyone just agreed, and it gives ANet far more feedback to work with. The offer to come on the podcast always stands, we should be starting back up once the expansion’s release date and Necromancer changes are a bit more formalized, and of course I always enjoy talking in game, where things end up being a bit more friendly and less argumentative.
At the end of the day, a few pages of disagreement helps out everyone far more than if it didn’t exist in the first place.
No, specialization is GW2’s equivalent of a secondary profession system.
Why can the Flesh Golem not be used underwater?
Because it doesn’t have underwater animations.
Each new specialization is 5 weapon skills (unless ele), 4 new utilities, heal, elite, and traits. Plus a trait rebalancing unrelated to new traits, and an unknown degree of profession mechanic changes.
Even with the awful job they did with heals, 11+ skills per profession, one of them must be worth using, plus a whole new profession.
Engineers have extremely limited stealth, and mostly through blasting. Also Engineers are not as “manly” as Necromancers are. Necromancers are designed to take the damage thrown at them, shrug it off, and keep going. Now regardless of the current balance of it, stealth is the exact opposite of the design that ANet has in mind for us.
A blast on UF would be nice, but any more buffs to that skill would be insane, it is already really strong. At this point we just need buffs to the 1 skill. Damage, speed, vuln duration, something.
Why would you put a bleed on a weapon set that has absolutely no innate condition damage. Axe stacking vuln on AA is absolutely fine.
If you’re playing Minion Master you’ve got like 300% poison uptime already. It is extremely common for me to respawn as MM and still see poison ticks across the map.
If you’re playing MM you have pretty common poison fields from Death Nova. Every 20s or so you’ll put out double poison fields from Bone Minions, besides that you’ll get one anytime you or your minions die.
Its not even that it is mobility, but stealth exists as a mitigation for “squishy” builds. Imagine if Guardian or Warrior got stealth, it would be absolutely ridiculous. Same for Necro.
While we’re at it, lets remove crits, all on-crit sigils, all random proc runes, every passive proc trait, all AoE effects that leave long lasting effects behind, soothing mist, all the passive guardian virtues, and everything else that has an effect without a direct player action being required to cause it.
Because if you want to complain about one thing that can have effects without direct player input, don’t stop at one (especially ones that are extremely weak), complain about them all.
Also worth mentioning, we already have active defense for minions with Transfusion. Even with that, I’ve had minions die while being healed by a cleric build.
Passive defenses for players are bad, I’d readily admit that. But all that active defenses for minions do is force me to pro-actively defend my minions from my opponent’s passive actions. A 2.5k shield when I go into DS doesn’t protect my minions from meaningful opponent action, since my opponents aren’t aiming at them anyway.
Not that active defenses have no place, but they can’t substitute for minions simply dying to random, accidental damage. This is the only thing that currently works in the game, it works right now, and unless they recode other parts of the game nothing else can come close.
Elite PvErs, as in the guys who do a dungeon in 5 minutes that takes you an hour to complete. There are people who take the game seriously, even if it isn’t difficult to complete.
Dhuumfire was different. People wanted burning, not nearly permanent burning and 4 different damaging conditions all on an auto attack. Current Dhuumfire isn’t an issue at all, and it is still burning, because burning wasn’t the issue, the implementation was.
We’re not giving generic solutions though. We are giving very specific ones that Anet can’t screw up the implementation of unless they change what we have said to do. And our specific changes are shown in game right at this very moment to work. Passive HP/armor have already shown themselves not to work, and active defenses simply do the same thing that HP/armor boosts do, but require timing to pull off.
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Stealth is the exact opposite of what Necros should ever get.
The minion in question gains health. The minions are given credit for the source of the projectile finisher, so it would be the same as if another player did it. Also worth mentioning that bone fiend has two finishers per auto attack, so double the effect.
The only special interaction is that minions use your condition damage/duration. So if they projectile finish through a poison field, while they are given “credit” for poisoning, it is your condition damage and duration that they use.
Its not that there aren’t any streamers, but compared to other AAA titles GW2 has abysmal streaming. Mainly I just don’t feel compelled to watch them, there isn’t a ton I feel they can provide I can’t get myself in game.
Blu is pretty much the only person I watch, and it is either for comedy or the organized higher tier PvP. But mostly for the few times that I find him with like 18 different people casting 2v2 with 4 necros all popping Lich at 2k HP.
Actually I did say that I think the minions need a health and armor buff anyway without the addition of a trait. Part of the reason I mentioned the health and armor of minions in GW1 was to compare them to GW2 minions in that just how frail they were. I’m not against the idea of passive buffs I’m against the idea of passive play. Which most of your suggestion doesn’t promote that, don’t get me wrong on that. That particular suggestion does, however.
I don’t understand how you can say crit/condi immunity is passive, but HP and armor are not. More HP/armor does not in any way promote more active play, all it does is shift the “can I kill minions or not”, but does so in a way that scales very poorly from a single target→AoE scenario.
Also, if we were to say, increase the minion’s health by 50% just as a passive buff without Flesh of the Master then have that 50% added to it that does something very similar for the minions that your -50% condition duration suggestion does. Its not exactly the same, your suggestion is meant to reduce the damage by 50% but it can reduce it much further then that with conditions that only last a second while my alternative reduces damage from conditions by 50% as well. Doubling the health pool doubles the damage required to kill them with conditions.
The problem is you very quickly bring minions out of range of people without massive amounts of AoE to be able to ever kill. Essentially you simply go from condition players having trouble killing them to anyone with single target having trouble. There is no system that will be equal for everyone, where every player will be more or less equally able to kill minions, unless Anet decides to add in a way to reduce damage (both direct and condi) from AoE.
I also mentioned raising their overall armor rating without a trait. My guess would be 180 extra toughness but it might need to go as high as 300. With your suggestion you do force people to be using Flesh of the Master. Which would end up doing way too much as a master trait and would need to be bumped up to grandmaster.
Flesh of the Master is already required for minions, and our proposal is that Flesh of the Master gives you a defensive system that already exists baseline.
So must I remind you that Fetid Consumption is a trait. Which I just tested btw, and each minion has its own condition draw trigger. So yeah, you’ll become a hard counter. And the second part of that of being unable to be critically hit? No… Just no.. You would be basically making the minions each have 2 grandmaster traits from the elementalist as one trait. Add Fetid Consumption into that mix and good luck trying to kill them with conditions… Yeah, I don’t see how you guys don’t see that as a hard counter. Turning a master trait into 2 grandmaster traits combine into one isn’t balanced. Its busted.
I’m aware of how much they draw. We’ve said before that Fetid would have to change, which is fine because it is currently not worth taking. And we would be giving minions those traits. Flesh of the Master currently gives 50% HP to a minion, are you trying to say that it is also OP because 50% extra player health would be insane? Training of the Master gives 25% extra damage, also a trait that would be entirely OP as even a grandmaster trait for any profession. Our one Master tier trait is something turrets get for free.
As for the rest, I have no issue looking at how other games do things. But when you bring up GW1, Diablo, WoW, or other games like them, it needs mentioning that their version of “MM” is extremely different than ours. We don’t have mana to manage, corpses to gate power, large AoE buffs, we don’t weaken ourselves, minions can’t body block or taunt. There is also completely different single target vs AoE mechanics, GW2 has 5 target AoE limit and no AoE reduction, the opposite of most games. Also GW1 is one of the only other games I have played with anything close to what I’d call balanced PvP, and the differences in PvP between GW2 and the rest are massive.
Just about the only similarity is that we are both builds that have some reliance on summoning creatures to fight. Now, could we in the future have builds that more closely resemble those of GW1 or others? Sure, but that is beyond our scope, it would require new weapons, traits, and minion skills.
Yep, I pitched this idea like 2 years ago with the idea to be able to turn bone minions into exploding fluffy bunnies. Unfortunately no such thing as of yet, but its a great idea.
Don’t forget about your toolkit abilities before you place your turrets down. You have a free 4 abilities to use, some of them very strong. In addition to that, you have 4 abilities on that toolkit once the turrets are down that all blast finish, deal a nice bit of damage, and instantly fling someone a decent way, so don’t feel bad about rolling your face over F1 to F4 if you need to literally bounce someone back and forth across the point.
And make sure to save Supply Crate. Yes it is an easy way to win a 1v1, but you could just as easily save it to win a 3v1, which is far better. The only thing more rage inducing than losing a 1v1 because of supply crate is losing a 3v1 because of it.