Basically, if a contest between a veteran and a new comer ends with 100-0 for the veteran, there’s a problem. Heck, even 10-0 is pushing it.
A new comer should have the possibility of beating their opponent, regardless of how long they have played.
There is. Even veteran players make mistakes. But that’s the point; human error should be the only factor that can give an unskilled player a victory over a skilled one. When you implement game mechanics that reward new players over experienced ones, you are punishing players for working harder to improve themselves, which is completely counter-intuitive.
i think thief combat mobility is fine as it is.
they are supposed to be mobile in that way.Yes they are supose to be that mobile. What they lack its the reward for the other player who is able to dodge instacast gap closers.
I not said to take that away from them. I said to make them pay for mistakes.
They spend more initiative, which means they need more time to recover it before they can continue using their other skills.
A veteran player should not be able to stomp a new comer all day.
That will only create an environment that cannot grow.
That’s the dumbest thing I’ve read all day. If an experienced player isn’t meant to be able to beat a new player, then there’s no incentive to learn the game in the first place.
You didn’t correctly read the post you quoted.
He (she?) said “a veteran player should not be able to stomp a new comer all day”.
You then said, “if an experienced player isn’t meant to be able to beat a new player”.That’s quite a large difference in what the lines actually say. There’s also the difference in implied meaning between “stomp” (implying an easy or complete victory) and “beat” (implying nothing, the victory may be close or easy or whatever). But that’s minor compared to the always vs at-all explicit component.
That’s irrelevant, because a player who knows the ins and outs of a game should always have the upper hand against someone who does not. Dota 2, for example, requires extensive knowledge of each hero ability and item in order to master the game. A team of 5 players who don’t know the abilities and items have a clear disadvantage when paired against a team of 5 experienced players that have learned the game.
This is as it should be, because it encourages players to get more invested into the game so that they can advance their skill and play better. Obviously there are going to be outliers (i.e. the veteran player makes a mistake that gives the newcomer the upper hand), but a new player should never have a consistent advantage over an experienced player.
(edited by Black Box.9312)
If you’re running either greatsword or staff it’s incredibly easy to kite a warrior, you just have to be smart with your positioning.
A veteran player should not be able to stomp a new comer all day.
That will only create an environment that cannot grow.
That’s the dumbest thing I’ve read all day. If an experienced player isn’t meant to be able to beat a new player, then there’s no incentive to learn the game in the first place.
(edited by Black Box.9312)
Read the Wind is getting an additional 10% attack speed increase on longbow, which you can equate to a 10% DPS increase. You don’t need the new trait.
Just thought I’d throw this in here again to make sure it’s read.
Although it is appreciable that a lot of people think about these things, what is overlooked here is that the zerk gear mentality isn’t a GW2 community demand. It’s a community response to what is missing; solid mob AI that synergise themselves appropriately to produce the sorts of encounters that require mixed or more defensive gear. Rather than nerfing the gear, the AI needs improving (difficult ask, but it is what it is) to the point that penalises reliance on zerk gear. This isn’t to say, “moar mob hp!”, but better mob mechanics.
I was going to say this, but then this person already did it for me. Thank you, kind sir.
Read the Wind is getting an additional 10% attack speed increase on longbow, which you can equate to a 10% DPS increase. You don’t need the new trait.
Side note: Skills =/= Traits. It’s important to distinguish between the two.
As a guardian main, I read this and silently wept.
There are very few circumstances in GW2 where individual skill can’t make up for small gaps in class balance.
Dire p/d condi thief.
Communication is the key to any functional relationship.
Even one between a company and its customers. Or a game developer and the player base.
This is so important. The number one thing that bothers me the most about how Anet has handled this game is the fact that they make changes that they intentionally omit from the patch notes. They claim that it’s because of fixes related to exploits, but obvious exceptions to this rule aside, there’s no reason to hide acknowledgment of an exploit once it’s FIXED. This issue gives the impression that Anet doesn’t trust their player base, their paying customers, enough to be honest and transparent with us, and that just feels so wrong to me.
Was I wrong?
You basically just said “I don’t care about these problems as much as you” and used that reasoning to come to the conclusion that they aren’t valid complaints.
I dunno about Miku, but I’d call that the end of the argument right there and just move right on past you.
They do play the game. I see them occasionally in PvP and we have 3 I regularly see on my server in WvW. Claiming they do not play is a very uninformed statement. These are the kind of uninformed claims that will cause them to over look a thread entirely, regardless of how good or bad the feedback in a thread is.
They might play the game, but they’ve shown time and time again that they don’t know it as well as some of their players, which is pretty embarrassing. Scepter condi mesmer in TA aetherpath, anyone?
Honestly, the large span of time between balance updates just gives me the impression that balance is a secondary priority to Anet, which is bad, bad, bad, BAD. Balancing needs to be done in small, frequent, incremental changes and tuning. Putting aside the (numerous) glaring issues that have been in the game since launch, every one of the small handful of balance updates has fixed a few problems, left a lot unsolved, and opened up a good amount of other ones that weren’t there before.
It’s been 2 years and they haven’t even properly balanced the current skillset, let alone added anything new to mix it up. At this point in an MMO’s cycle usually there’s an expansion released that introduces a host of new skills and even new classes. We still have none of that. It just baffles me how much it feels like they don’t TRULY care to make their game fulfill its true potential.
Hold on.
Is this whole wall of text because they reduced Hundred Blades damage?
No, it’s not. You should read the entire OP and then try again.
The combo system is well done? The failure that is the combo system is the reason for melee stacking.
The combo system is the reason everything feels the same, because it is all you got to understand and then bunch up and burn down whatever gets close (or stuck in a corner).
The stacking meta is in place because of an easily exploitable AI system that basically hand feeds you PvE mobs to be cut down simply by hiding behind a corner. It’s true that stacking helps the combo system be more effective, but it is definitely not the primary reason for it.
They have already tried it, and did an amazing job at it. The monthly skill balance changes in GW1 was what kept the game fresh. A small changes to a few skills would completely overhaul the entire meta, and this happened every month with every class.
Although, the reason that this was possible, was that there were countless of interactions between countless of skills. in GW2, there is nothing of that, there is no Sever Attery -> Gash, none of the skills interact with any of the other skills in any way.
And so far with GW2, anet has been completely reluctant to change any of the core mechanics, even if they are flawed to the core.
I wouldn’t say that none of the skills interact with each other. The combo system is actually quite well done IMO, allowing for skill interaction not just between skills but between classes as well. The problem is just that Anet is just moving too slowly and making only minor changes months apart, which doesn’t solve anything.
Also, vital shot and sneak attack need to have some sort of conditional restriction for when it procs a bleed on the target. Adding a long lasting bleed stack with every hit is too powerful.
vital shot is much slower than ranger SB (for example) though. and the power scaling is abysmal. those bleeds are really all the damage from the skill. sneak attack is pretty on par as a “condi backstab”, with the added benefit that it can be mostly avoided with a single dodge and still proc revealed on the thief, so i think it’s fine.
IMO no autoattack of any kind should have a 100% condi proc. Condi builds are too strong right now due to the lack of ways to mitigate condi damage. Either the autoattack procs should go, or there should be ways to reduce condi damage/second taken.
Or they could just do the sensible thing and replace unload with a condi dual skill. And while they’re at it, replace death blossom with a power dual skill.
Also, vital shot and sneak attack need to have some sort of conditional restriction for when it procs a bleed on the target. Adding a long lasting bleed stack with every hit is too powerful.
(edited by Black Box.9312)
This assumes that the Skill Bar is showing 100% of all changes, which I highly doubt will be the case.
It doesn’t, Anet even has said that Skill Bar just shows the changes they think are the biggest AKA will get most publicity/largest changes.
Which, knowing them, just means that there are probably going to be highly controversial changes that they just don’t want to tell us about.
I agree with the premise of this thread 100%.
I’ve always thought it to be highly ironic that Anet is pushing so hard to make this game both casual-friendly and a high end e-sport. The two seem quite contradictory to me, and the current balancing method where usually non-substantial changes (that typically shift the meta of each game mode in different directions) are spread out months apart just shows how much of a mess it seems to be.
The season 2 living story content seems pretty solid IMO, but all it’s doing is leaving me wondering why they aren’t bothering to go back and fix the stuff that we were given at launch; the bulk of the game that we all paid our money for. The open world that is largely ignored nowadays because there’s nothing really to do once you’ve done original map completion. The dungeons that have poorly designed enemies that provide virtually no valuable reward other than a small fraction of a percent of the gold required to get the ACTUAL rewards. Hell, even PvP, where it’s either zergtrains in WvW or a single bland point-capture game in sPvP.
It just feels like Anet looked at this game and said, “Well, it’s not completely broken, so let’s not waste our time worrying about it.” It feels like they’re trying so hard to be new and innovative and different with this whole living story thing that they’re not paying attention to the fact that it’s only a small portion of the game, and everything else needs to receive adequate attention as well. It feels like they’re largely ignoring a community that at times seems to know their own game better than they do.
And the most frustrating part of it all is that I can’t just drop everything and leave. I just see all of this potential in this game because of what it DOES have. The combat mechanics are excellent. The visuals are amazing. The world and lore is unique and fascinating. It just hurts so bad to see all of this potential go to waste because it’s lacking the necessary content to take advantage of these things. It’s like having a fine china plate with polished silver utensils, but no food to eat with it. And the players are getting very, very hungry.
I’ve run into a similar problem with my guardian. The first minor trait in zeal drops a symbol when hit while below the health threshold. The problem is that this will trigger even if my thief buddy uses stealth on me, so I get revealed and subsequently zergrolled.
One of my biggest pet peeve is when people use longbow 4 in PvE, for any reason other than to remove a defiant stack. Please, just don’t use it. Your party will thank you.
If they are reducing pulses and duration of the blinds they should at least reduce the initiative cost of black powder.
this^^
fun part this change will affect pp and sp thieves more than dp… because you know, pp is soooo OP…..(eyesroll)
As far as I know, p/p thieves won’t really be affected much at all by this change, as the blinds are mostly dealt through projectile finishers. The smoke field will remain consistent; the only thing changing is how often the blind pulses while you’re inside it.
Except, Anet balances the whole game around sPvP, which has a single point-capture game mode. Not everyone in WvW zergs, and even if they did it would be completely irrelevant to the overall balancing of the game. This is why you have glaring problems like stealth disengages and out of combat mobility being able to essentially ‘reset’ fights in WvW; because they aren’t issues in point-capture and therefore they are largely ignored as balancing factors.
Wvw is (should) balanced for zerg vs zerg, or at least gvg. That’s the purpose of the game aspect and most people play with a group.
Those disengage skills that you despise so much are the only way to avoid being curbstomped by any enemy zerg, so I’d say they’re pretty much necessary for roaming.
GvG in GW2 is a joke IMO, and isn’t even worth bringing up. As for zergs, they are only effective because of the aoe cap. If that were to ever get removed, you’d see a lot more roaming/havoc groups and a lot less blobs. But again, this is irrelevant, because WvW is not a factor involved in the balancing process to begin with.
I main warrior since beta, i must admit that GS is a bit too much. The problem with the GS is that it is the main weapon in PvE with the high dmg and that is has plenty of movement options. I would not mind that they nerf Rush to 900, but atleast fix the bug that it won’t hit anything.
Outside the GS, we have only 1 more weapon skill that leaps and it usefull for running and that is sword (hammer got nerfed, axe is meant to run with) and next to that bulls rush. If you dont run with GS or sword, we almost dont have any ‘leap’ skills (to escape). I would like to see that the GS gets of gets a dmg nerf or a mobility nerf, so it gets 1 place it excels in and not more than that.
IIRC, mainhand axe and hammer both have ranged cripple abilities that allow you to close the gap with your target. You don’t really NEED a leap on either one to keep up with your enemy. As for leap skills being used to escape, that is the problem in the first place. Warriors shouldn’t be able to just say “oh I’m losing, better just run away” and be gone just like that. Skillful play should be rewarded with the kill, just like it is when facing any other class (except maybe thief/mesmer with stealth, but that’s another discussion meant for a separate thread).
I, for one, care, because I refuse to play PvP because point-capture is a terrible game mode to base class balance on.
PvP is a competitive game mode that tries to be an esport.
Pvp is balanced around point-capture, wvw is balanced around zergs.Just like nobody cares about condi thief or PU mesmers in pvp (they’re troll hotjoin builds useless in point-capture), nobody should care about 1v1 in wvw.
And frankly warriors can’t really compare to other 1v1 cheese builds in wvw.Point-capture is based around the premise of who can bunker and counter-bunker better. When you balance classes around this, you get predominantly defensive builds and CC heavy builds that overshadow others. Take for example the guardian, who has been ‘in a good place’ for 2 years now, even though in reality it’s pigeonholed into two roles despite the promise pre-launch that class wouldn’t have a factor on player role.
Once they start balancing the way classes interact with each other on the fights themselves rather than who can hold a circle on the map better, I will take sPvP and this game’s balancing as a whole more seriously.
The point is not “PvP is awesome, roaming is not”.
the point is: every game aspect balances around itself.
Wvw aims to be balanced around zergs, pvp around point capture.
In both game aspects you can create extremely troll cheesy builds, but completely useless for zerg or point capture, and that’s why nerfing them isn’t really top priority.Also, I’ll never understand why you’re complaining about gs. There are a metric TON of cheesy builds in wvw, why is everyone whining about warrior’s gs (a mediocre weapon)?
Ah, btw, I really wish they’d nerf Rush to 1200, 900 loc, just fix it and let it hit something!
Except, Anet balances the whole game around sPvP, which has a single point-capture game mode. Not everyone in WvW zergs, and even if they did it would be completely irrelevant to the overall balancing of the game. This is why you have glaring problems like stealth disengages and out of combat mobility being able to essentially ‘reset’ fights in WvW; because they aren’t issues in point-capture and therefore they are largely ignored as balancing factors.
I, for one, care, because I refuse to play PvP because point-capture is a terrible game mode to base class balance on.
PvP is a competitive game mode that tries to be an esport.
Pvp is balanced around point-capture, wvw is balanced around zergs.Just like nobody cares about condi thief or PU mesmers in pvp (they’re troll hotjoin builds useless in point-capture), nobody should care about 1v1 in wvw.
And frankly warriors can’t really compare to other 1v1 cheese builds in wvw.
Point-capture is based around the premise of who can bunker and counter-bunker better. When you balance classes around this, you get predominantly defensive builds and CC heavy builds that overshadow others. Take for example the guardian, who has been ‘in a good place’ for 2 years now, even though in reality it’s pigeonholed into two roles despite the promise pre-launch that class wouldn’t have a factor on player role.
Once they start balancing the way classes interact with each other on the fights themselves rather than who can hold a circle on the map better, I will take sPvP and this game’s balancing as a whole more seriously.
we the other group of warriors NEED this mobility to even be close enough to Thieves and Mesmers, to be able to have a chance against them.
nerfing Warrior mobility will hurt this group of warriors, but those who flee will just have to do it earlier.
This is a joke right? We are talking about WvW here and every warrior can sit on my face 90% of the time because dogged march, buff food and runes make him almost invincible against any form of soft CC. They dont even need a greatsword for that.
1v1 roaming in wvw isn’t balanced and will never be. Cond thief, engi or mesmer curbstomp any warrior out there, but nobody cares.
I, for one, care, because I refuse to play PvP because point-capture is a terrible game mode to base class balance on.
I’d be all for this… Once they fix condition damage to not be so unbalanced against players.
Problem solved then. Because it is not.
So then are you the player that plays the dire gear builds, or do you just never actually fight them?
I’d be all for this… Once they fix condition damage to not be so unbalanced against players.
theres no problem with mesmer stealth! only with the PU trait so nerf that one.
Id love to see Phantasms just despawning after one attack and a short time ( enough time to use them for shatter etc) Theres no place for AI only builds!Nerf the PU build, and I agree as a Memser it is warranted. But tell me, what else can a Mesmer run then?
Buff before nerf pls.
I’m running a power interrupt build with my only stealth being mass invis for when my party needs it, and I’m doing just fine with small scale roaming.
Not to say that I disagree with the notion for more build variety on mesmer, but PU isn’t the ONLY viable option.
I think it is a good change in general. Perma blind shouldn’t exist in any game mode.
Why do people complain about speed warriors? That is a unique build that requires sword and great sword.
You don’t even really need sword, honestly. GS alone gives you a 1650 range gap with 2 skills every 20 seconds, and with a simple adept trait and runeset (both of which are commonly used in a large number of warrior builds) you can be highly resistant to movement impairing conditions, which are there to be used to counter such mobility in the first place.
I like the idea that warriors can resist to movement-impairing CC (flavorful with their “sturdy bodies”), but I dislike the idea that warriors can Ride the Lightning with their greatsword.
Would be nice to see their GS leaps range be decreased to 900 and Rush requiring a target (alongside being bug fixed, so it’s actually useful in combat). What do people think of that?
Yeah, no.
Why is everyone so bent on having forced targets in an action combat system ?
Additionally what GS leap ? Warriors dont have one.
You know what would be lovely, FGS reduced Whirl and Dash range to match Warriors GS.
FGS is an elite skill with 120 seconds of downtime on a class with light armor and low base HP. Nice try, but hardly a valid comparison.
Oh really you dont say, remind me which class has the 900 range blink, the 66%movement speed increase and invulnerability as well as RTL and BS… yep. Want to talk about abusive mobility Ele, Thieves are the king of it. They are just too busy QQ’ing here to realize it.
Yes, let’s talk about RTL. RTL is a 1200 range mobility skill, much like Rush. But how is RTL different? Well, for starters, it has a dual cooldown system now. If you don’t land a successful hit on a target, you have to wait a whopping 40/36 seconds before you can use it again! And what’s more, if it’s blocked or it misses due to blind, you also have to wait a whopping 40/36 seconds before you can use it again!
So how about we give that a try on Rush, then? Seems only fair to me.
I like the idea that warriors can resist to movement-impairing CC (flavorful with their “sturdy bodies”), but I dislike the idea that warriors can Ride the Lightning with their greatsword.
Would be nice to see their GS leaps range be decreased to 900 and Rush requiring a target (alongside being bug fixed, so it’s actually useful in combat). What do people think of that?
Yeah, no.
Why is everyone so bent on having forced targets in an action combat system ?
Additionally what GS leap ? Warriors dont have one.
You know what would be lovely, FGS reduced Whirl and Dash range to match Warriors GS.
FGS is an elite skill with 120 seconds of downtime on a class with light armor and low base HP. Nice try, but hardly a valid comparison.
They received more than a ‘slight’ buff to mobility. Warriors in WvW will now have up to 100% immunity to CC conditions thanks to a single skill (Juggernaut). Not to mention the fact that Rush is still broken and doesn’t reliably hit targets, so people just use it to run away as a 1200 range gap OPENER instead of a gap closer like it’s intended to be.
I’m really, really disappointed by this.
I went around the perimeter at least 3 times to make sure I’d rescued everyone, waited until the timer ran out, and then went to the lab, and only THEN did the achievement icon disappear. It might be fixed for some people, but there’s definitely still a problem.
It’s not mentioned in the patch notes and it still bugged out for me. Pretty upsetting considering the promise that it’d be fixed by now.
Being by far the best at certain roles is hardly a good indication of a balanced class.
80% of “support” in this game is distilled into the Guardian class. Stack enough of them in WvW and you make any zerg immortal.
The fact that they have been the ONLY viable midbunkers in sPvP since launch shows how ridiculous the class is. It’s just that we become so complacant with Guardians being nigh immortal and adding more support than the 4 other classes in the group that we think this is OK.
It’s not. Guardians may be ok in a 1v1 basis but when you add in group dynamics it’s clear this class is entirely broken. It has WAY too much support and innate tankiness, way more than any other class in the game. And it has not been good for the game.
… Wait, you’re being serious?
Wow, I… Just… Wow.
The guardian barely recieves anything because it already works.
If it aint broken, don’t fix it.
There are two, maybe three builds that don’t involve the use of broken traits or utilities.
Nope
Nice argument, bro.
While I will admit that ‘broken’ was a poor word choice seeing as it wasn’t meant to be taken literally, the point still stands that the guardian is a very pigeonholed class.
The guardian barely recieves anything because it already works.
If it aint broken, don’t fix it.
There are two, maybe three builds that don’t involve the use of broken traits or utilities.
Make it destroyable with projectiles and I’d call that a fair deal.
I’m all after giving more variety to guardians, but with a cost of superior support ability. Currently, even if group or zerg would need some support, healing or tank with tons of utility like reflections, why would they something else than a guardia
?Bt Guardians surely needs some love when it comes to variety
I think that having the option to sacrifice some of that support viability to have more build freedom is exactly what the class needs.
I mean, for one, your doing a whole lot of complaining, yet you fail to mention what the problem is that guardians are broken that they need fixed.
Build variety is broken.
Nobody wants the already effective aspects of the class to be buffed. We want traits and skills that are currently all but useless to become more effective to allow guardian players to actually do more than play the one effective build.
Guardian was the most well-balanced class at launch.
That was over a year and a half ago.
The class is becoming more and more obsolete, with a single role in a game where universal class roles was so highly praised and hyped. No one is saying that it’s a bad class. It just needs added variety and flavor to make it more than just the ‘bunker support’ class.
Behold the mentality of the skill-less zerger!
And smallscale is skill-based. Uh huh. Well, as long as you feel good up there on that horse, sure. :P
Zerging takes skill and strategy for a whole one person. If you’re not commanding, then you’re not displaying any sense of skill.
Because that build is exclusively support-oriented and has little to no efficiency in solo and small group play. Nobody in their right mind would take their staff solo roaming; it just doesn’t work.
Well then isn’kitten good thing that this isn’t some fighting game or MOBA but a massive multiplayer online game?
(The main issue is devs thinking too little in MMO terms, tbh. Not the opposite.)
Spamming staff 1 into a blob is not everyone’s idea of fun.