Guild Wars 2

Zelyhn.8069:

Many people are going to hate me but I can’t wait until they design all movement-attack skills like FGS rush or whirlwind attack to hit foes only once per use.

I am tired of banging mobs against the walls. I want real fights.

Then we will see all those “meta” ele and warriors fail so hard not knowing what to do

This, except I really don’t care about negative opinions of me on a video game forum, so I feel no shame in saying it.

bigmonto.4215:

Whether you agree or not, keep in mind, Anet purposely choose a higher-than-normal crit dam. Anet could have chosen a much lower number, but they didn’t. They have a lot of opportunity to patch it or change it, but they didn’t. Unless you think Anet devs are idiots, I can safely say Celetrials with higher-than-normal crit dam was the original design intent.

Except, they are choosing to take advantage of that opportunity now. So why are you complaining about it?

Dirame.8521:

fadeaway.2807:

Kindled zeal : We don’t have enough conditions to care enough about 13% condition damage.

I’m an advocate for this trait’s usefuleness. You guys may believe that it’s insignificant and unimportant and doesn’t do much. But I can assure you, you’re mistaken.

Gain condition dmg equal or exceeding what you’d get if you put 30 points in Radiance? Whilst also gaining 30% condition duration on top of that? Sign me the heck up.

If you guys can’t come up with a way to use the trait effectively, then I really feel like you’re missing out.

It doesn’t matter how much condition damage you do when you have one condition applied every ~30 seconds that can easily be cleansed. Theoretically it seems like it could add some substantial damage, but in practice it’s little more than 20 more points than you’d ever want in zeal.

Can you please stop bumping these? If a thread stops receiving posts, then it needs to be let go.

It was supposed to be challenging end-game content. Anet just dropped the ball on that one.

Zenith.7301:

Black Box.9312:

Bryzy.2719:

Warriors have nothing to complain about. Have you SEEN the offhand axe Ranger skill 5? Thought not. Also, damage-buffing Warriors, whether it would make them OP or not (even though every other profession knows warriors are OP anyway) should be the last thing on the devs’ priorities list right now.

Ranger axe 5 is actually one of the best skills ranger has, considering the massive amount of utility on top of the damage it deals.

LOL

“Hey guys, im going to self root, effectively CC’ing myself just to reflect projectiles while doing less damage in this long channel than my own autoattack chain!”

MASSIVE UTILITY INDEED. THAT’S WHY SO MANY POWER RANGERS ARE AROUND.

It reflects, grants retaliation, deals aoe damage, and stacks vulnerability. It’s an incredibly useful skill that people like to underestimate.

nirvana.8245:

2% crit damage is too high? I would have thought it was a reasonable amount considering other items of the same slot are running 10%.

The issue is with weapons and armor, not trinkets.

Bryzy.2719:

Warriors have nothing to complain about. Have you SEEN the offhand axe Ranger skill 5? Thought not. Also, damage-buffing Warriors, whether it would make them OP or not (even though every other profession knows warriors are OP anyway) should be the last thing on the devs’ priorities list right now.

Ranger axe 5 is actually one of the best skills ranger has, considering the massive amount of utility on top of the damage it deals.

Nikkinella.8254:

Black Box.9312:

Celestial is supposed to accommodate those who want to spec equally in offensive and defensive stats. Anyone who is looking for more offensive power with the higher crit damage should not be going for celestial armor because the offensive and defensive potential of celestial gear are meant to be equal.

People who are arguing that celestial is meant to have the higher crit damage are simply wrong. Yes, I agree that maybe the overall stat values should be buffed a little to make it slightly more viable, but people who want more offensively leaning gear that still has some defense should be looking at knight’s, rabid, cavalier’s, or valkyrie’s gear. That is SUPPOSED to be that way. Celestial is NOT.

Are you kidding? What it’s SUPPOSED to be is irrelevant. We aren’t mind readers. People made the gear based on what stats it CURRENTLY has. Because of the fact that it CURRENTLY does have the best crit damage. It’s not our job to guess the intent of what the devs have in mind for the gear. We picked it because of what it CURRENTLY does. Why do you people fail to grasp that? The majority of people who made celestial never would have bothered with it if ferocity had been in the game from the start, because most would view it as worthless. It was used to fill in gaps in builds to have balanced defence and offense and because it has very high crit without being too squishy like zerker. That is what made it so appealing. They changed what it did AFTER we already invested lots of time and money into it based on what it CURRENTLY does. That is why people are kittened. So yes, we do deserve to get a free stat swap on celestial gear like they did when they removed the magic find stat. Because now it will be totally worthless to alot of people unless they very significantly buff all the stats to compensate for the massive crit loss.

I’m not arguing against getting a free stat swap. I think that that would be completely fair. I just think it’s silly that people think that celestial SHOULD have such high crit damage when it’s quite clearly not meant to be the case.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

At Ani and Blackbox: I’m just going to try and rein this in: take your arguments to a PM so that this thread does not get muddled with it. Your posts are off topic and do not belong in this thread.

At dramen, let us know when you intend to do another of these so that maybe we can join forces.

I apologize for the derailing, but don’t worry. I’ve said all that I need to say about the matter.

Your logic is so backwards that it confounds me. I will never understand this game’s ‘PvE elite’ for the exact reasons you’ve just shed light on: You are complaining about others not caring about your enjoyment, and yet you consistently talk down on them for playing the game for their enjoyment. Ever consider that maybe some people HAVE looked into meta builds, and speedclear tactics, and just prefer to play the game a different way even though they are perfectly capable of playing the game your way as well?

The kind of attitude you are displaying toward the ‘average player’ is exactly why the average player refers to you as elitists, among other more directly insulting terminology. Your views represent the archetype of a person completely and utterly deluded by stereotypes, and until you fix that and learn to get past it the problem that you are complaining about will not stop.

I personally know better than to generalize every player that is interested in speedclearing and meta builds into this specific category, but many people won’t, and you are setting a bad example for the rest of them just like the people you’ve had bad experiences with are setting a bad example for the players that you are generalizing yourself.
_________

TL;DR: Go look in a mirror and please stop being hypocritical. I’d hardly like to see someone who looks down upon the average player with such contempt trying to act as a teacher to them.

Anierna.6918:

You may not have noticed, Dramen, but there is a “Stacking exploit! Skipping exploit! Zerker gear exploit! Dodging exploit! Soloing dungeon exploit! Being better than me exploit!” thread appearing daily, and not just in the dungeon forum. And the vast majority of the time, the players making these threads: 1) use terrible English; and 2) demonstrate in their complaints an alarming ignorance of game mechanics. Us “elitists” need to actively promote meta builds to combat the aforementioned tide of stupidity that all those “_ is exploit!” people are polluting these forums with.

You know why this has given the dungeon sub-forum “a reputation among the overall game community as a toxic place?” Because the average member of the “overall game community” does not have enough brain-power to realize that us “elitists” are right. The average player is too stupid to understand the extensive theorycrafting that we do, and the enormous amount of time and effort that we put into that theorycrafting. And even if that average player could understand why our meta builds are superior, he wouldn’t care. He’d rather kitten his group by running a rubbish build to maximize his own “fun” at the expense of everyone else. And his excuse for being so selfish? “I play how I want.”

Elitism doesn’t spawn from being good at what you do. It comes from looking down on others that disagree with your viewpoints. Some people don’t want to stack because it IS an abuse of poorly designed game mechanics, and some people don’t want to run your builds because they want to play the game their way for their own enjoyment. I mean, heaven forbid that someone plays a video game for fun and doesn’t treat it like a job, right?

Knock knock.

Who’s there? Thief.

Yeah, guardian damage is top tier; guardian just has a big problem with being able to make it all hit the target. Being very limited in mobility and soft CC makes it difficult to play a guardian as anything but a bunker, which is a shame when you take into account the fact that any class should be able to at least somewhat spec for any role when built for it.

Well first off, comparing trait placement to warrior traits isn’t really the best comparison to begin with (see dogged march), but let’s be honest: Blind is a very powerful condition. If they were to buff this trait it would be too powerful because you could potentially blind spam just with ranged autoattacks.

pza.8024:

i main engi, and it’s most of the time super easy to win against thieves. i already lost hard to some thieves, but that’s due to me not beeing the best duelist.

BUT: the stealth mechanic is WAAAYYY to cheesy. like WAY WAY WAAAAY. people saying you can counter it: unless you have interrupts (and high skill to interrupt someone stealthing), there’s no counter to it. any AoE is either:
- too weak to kill the thief (or else you would use it even if he’s not stealthed)
- strong enough to kill, but then your target didn’t need stealth and you would have used the skill anyway, not altering your gameplay at all.

a real counter would be something that would work ONLY if the target is stealthed, like an attack that adds REVEALED to your target, or an attack that deals extra damage or conditions to stealthed enemies. this is the definiton of counterplay.

so whenever a thief stealthed, he should really think twice, because it may happen that someone COUNTERS this, leaving him weaker than he would be if he didn’t use stealth.

of COURSE the play without stealth should then be buffed. thieves should be able make much more use of their real class mechanic: STEAL.

Adding hard counters to the game just further splits the division between class ability and player skill. A good player should be able to beat a bad player regardless of class.

Also, there are a large number of traits that work around steal. Mug, stealth on steal, boons on steal, boon steal on steal, daze on steal, increased steal distance, etc.

Thoth Divine.8642:

Fade.7658:

Another thread by someone who can’t beat a thief, nor will take the time to learn.

There are literally dozens of these topics recently. Instead of starting a new thread on an old topic, try an existing one.

You didn’t read the thread. I can beat Thieves 1v1 pretty often. I also seem to think you didn’t read the title since I said BUFF Thieves and change stealth. Thieves are not overpowered in my opinion – they shine in some areas and have their weak spots. Stealth, however, has no weak points nor any clear counterplay.

Without a specific suggestion on how you intend for thieves to be compensated, this is basically just a cry for a nerf.

Renewed focus is a 90 second cd elite skill that, iirc, doesn’t grant immunity to pre-applied conditions either. It is also channeled and does not allow the use of other skills or actions for its duration. Yes, it works differently than endure pain, but in any given PvP scenario are you ever going to be hit by an attack that goes through endure pain? And is CC honestly relevant if you’re still not taking any damage while under its effects?

The only thing that makes guardian a more effective bunker class is the fact that you can trait very heavily into strong defensive builds, but this comes at the cost of lacking offensive power. A defensive guardian’s strongest offensive asset is retaliation, and even that relies on playing defensively and being able to take enough hits for it to do its job. Meanwhile a warrior can simply place 20 points in defense and slot a few utilities and fill nearly any role without having to worry about whether you’re well-equipped enough for it.

Dancing dagger is underpowered? Whut?

Cygnus.6903:

zapv.8051:

When necros, rangers, and engineers get massive buffs in PvE then maybe they should consider this. Before that any buffs to warrior are really unjustified.

Just go away. This argument is so bad, just leave.

On topic, I agree Axe 5 needs a buff. It does, however, need to remain significantly weaker then axe auto in PvE, because it hits 5 instead of 3 targets. Also, whirldamage is better then cleave.
another option is to remove the 5 targets, and make it 3 instead. Then damage should actually be slightly higher then auto.

What’s wrong with it dealing more damage than autoattack if it has a cooldown? Making it deal more damage over time would make it a worthwhile skill to use, and it’s not like people will just stop using axe auto altogether.

Jzaku.9765:

First of all no, Guardian has way more invulnerability and damage mitigation than Warr what are you even smoking here. All classes have ~equal amount of stunbreaks. And hilariously, I’d say damage guardian is one of the best counters to Hammer Warrior.

The guardian still does what it does the best. You STILL don’t see Warriors or any other class being your main bunker, this is because yes, a warrior sustains himself well (some might say too well), but all his sustain only applies to himself. This is in direct contrast to what a Guardian provides for a team with his team cleansing, team stability, team full heal etc etc. This is completely by design that Guard defends the team and the only team effects warrior can apply are all damage buffs.

If you feel like the guardian needs things other classes have to suit your play style perhaps you should play other classes.

Invulnerability? No. Damage mitigation? Maybe more PARTIAL damage mitigation in the form of protection and the occasional aegis, but unlike warrior guardian’s only duration-based block skill is also their heal skill, and it only lasts 2 seconds.

Unlike warrior, guardian is very limited in effective roles. You can either be an effective bunker (which Anet has said themselves they’re looking to add some competition to with other classes), or you can go medi burst.

Is guardian in a bad spot? Not really, at least not relatively speaking when you look at ranger and elementalist, but it definitely could be better. It was the most well balanced class at launch, and for some reason Anet has taken that to mean that it doesn’t need to be touched at all even as the meta changes.

LordByron.8369:

Consider at least in www..
If you can’t burst a thief in 3 seconds it won t die….

Since going full zerk and oneshotting other dps profession is a choice, and since equipping few defensive pieces of equipment let thieves troll Tier 1 servers spawn with no effort, i believe thief HP are already more than OK.

I m ok to an HP buff if revealed debuff gets tripled.

Ele has still to put 20 points in water due to mandatory traits….so buffing HP is pointless

9 seconds of reveal? Please tell me you have just never played thief before and are severely misinformed…

Bombsaway.7198:

Phenn.5167:

“Lazy” is balancing the entire game with only PvP in view, which ultimately results in a big “screw you” to the PvE metas struggling to make something horribly broken work.

I remind you that the unique feature of this game was indeed PvP and it was always billed as such (the core or heart of the game). It is a GW game after all.
Just like an ESO games will default to having a clean UI with an immersive feel.
A DAOC game will likely focus on WvW.

Yes, the PvE is quite good here, but that was not the “shtick” of the game.

It’s an MMORPG. The way I see it, if Arenanet wanted to focus exclusively on PvP and Esports, they should have just made a MOBA and not even bothered with PvE and WvW to begin with. The way they’re currently handling things is just a slap in the face to the majority of their player base.

RyuDragnier.9476:

You know all those sPvP nerfs thieves got? None exist in WvW, which is why you see all these complaints pop up.

The only recent nerfs I can think of to thief are the reduction in vigor uptime, changes to infusion of shadow, and cast time and removal of the stun break for infiltrator’s return; all of which affect WvW players just as much as sPvP players.

Auesis.7301:

frans.8092:

I think you missed the point of that post.

I did not. Regardless of what you are trying to argue, it is unhealthy and incorrect to associate Stealth exclusively to Thieves as a profession mechanic.

Stealth attacks are a mechanic exclusive to thief, and are the primary source of damage for the majority of dagger mainhand builds. A dagger thief without stealth will hit about as hard as a wet noodle.

Terravos.4059:

lol…..aoe the blind field..

While you’re aoeing the blind field like a fool, the thief is already running behind you to backstab you again.

I mean bloody hell, Its a 600 Range Leap they use to get Stealth, do you honestly think that unless you instantly AOE that field that they will be standing in it?

Heartseeker is a 450 range leap, and if you were to have played a thief you would know that most of them actually aim their camera directly downward to reduce the leap range so that they can chain leaps through the smoke field. It’s not as hard to hit them with aoe as you might think.

Well I understand the intention of different weapons being meant for different roles, but I do agree that the discrepancies in DPS between them is considerably larger than it probably should be. Although to be fair, I think this is more of an issue due to the DPS meta than the weapons themselves.

Aegael.6938:

In the end it just comes down to the fact that there are very few specs that can effectively “prepare” against a thief assault without throwing away very meaningful cooldowns.

So you’re saying that you shouldn’t have to use your important abilities to beat a thief? Because that’s kind of a silly thing to say.

I think that the low tier health pool is good for thieves and eles. That being said, however, I think it would be fair to have the low tier pool raised from 10k to 12k, or something similar to make it just a little bit easier to work with.

Arken.3725:

GS-
Whirling Wrath: I honestly believe that the projectiles be removed. I can’t even count on 1 hand how many times those random bolts have done anything at all. Just increase the damage of the whirl itself and remove the projectiles.

This is actually something I forgot to mention, but have been desiring as well. With the current way whirling wrath works it requires the player to be stacked on top of the target for the full damage output, which is poor design. It really should just be a melee-range spin that deals the full damage to anyone that gets hit by the full attack, regardless of positioning within the radius.

Sarrs.4831:

Black Box.9312:

Hunter’s shot is fine; the stealth can actually be a really nice help and it synergizes well with renewed opening strikes. Rapid fire, and even the autoattack are much bigger problems for longbow.

What’s wrong with the auto-attack? IMHO it’s in a reasonable place and gives the weapon a role, but I’m not really a ranger, so I can’t really tell.

Also not sure about rapid fire but I think it’s a bit weird that it applies vulnerability with each shot, makes the uptime kinda dorky.

Rapid fire is just horrendous DPS due to how long it takes to channel, and adding vulnerability to it did almost nothing because it stacks up so slowly that by the time you’re done channeling the skill the first few stacks you put on are already almost gone. Honestly they just need to rework the skill entirely, because even with the vulnerability there’s still very little reason to use it unless you’re stuck with a longbow in very close range, which should never happen.

As for the autoattack, I’m personally of the opinion that basing damage on your distance from the target is just a terrible mechanic. It makes the weapon virtually worthless in PvE, and in PvP it gives people the idea to prioritize relative position from their target rather than more important things like who to focus on, what to avoid, and where you need to be positioned regardless of where your enemy is.

Swagg.9236:

DeceiverX.8361:

So again, you’re stating that because a thief can burst on par with most other classes..

Spike damage of such magnitude does not belong in Guild Wars 2. Every instance of such levels of burst damage has to be toned down or changed outright. No class deserves it. No class needs it. This game isn’t built to handle it.

Says who? You? Sorry to say, but you don’t get to be the judge of what does and does not ‘belong’ in GW2.

Swagg.9236:

Sir Morgan Malory.2069:

I think ranger dps is better than the average in most situations, situations where you can make use of your pets dps. Rangers aren’t suppose to be the spike damage class. Warriors, thieves and mesmers are for spike. Rangers pressure damage is in a good place right now. There biggest weakness is that there use in a group. There support and control ability are none-existant.

Alright.

Do you have any suggestions to fix that?

How about [Hunter’s Shot]? [Hunter’s Shot] is a garbage skill if I’ve ever seen one and a functionality change for that slot it is easily the most obvious key to making longbow into a more competitive weapon. That’s currently my task at hand for the Ranger right now.

Hunter’s shot is fine; the stealth can actually be a really nice help and it synergizes well with renewed opening strikes. Rapid fire, and even the autoattack are much bigger problems for longbow.

Celestial is supposed to accommodate those who want to spec equally in offensive and defensive stats. Anyone who is looking for more offensive power with the higher crit damage should not be going for celestial armor because the offensive and defensive potential of celestial gear are meant to be equal.

People who are arguing that celestial is meant to have the higher crit damage are simply wrong. Yes, I agree that maybe the overall stat values should be buffed a little to make it slightly more viable, but people who want more offensively leaning gear that still has some defense should be looking at knight’s, rabid, cavalier’s, or valkyrie’s gear. That is SUPPOSED to be that way. Celestial is NOT.

If this will stop people from QQ’ing about stealth being OP, then I’m all for it.

Retaliation is a key part of a bunker guardian’s potential. Getting rid of it would break a key component of the class, which means it’s not going to go away.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Black Box.9312:

Rednik.3809:

Black Box.9312:

stealth is not a damage avoidance mechanic at all; it’s simply a deception.

Wrong. You completely avoid all AI damage (pets, turrets, clones, NPC) and damage/harmful effects from skills with target requirements.

The former is an issue with AI being poorly designed, and the latter technically isn’t true because the only skills that REQUIRE a target are mesmer clone/phantasm skills. Now, you could somewhat argue that it makes it too difficult to hit with ‘targeted’ skills, but I’d suggest an entirely different solution such as making skills easier to aim manually.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Doom
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rending_Claws
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ghastly_Claws *
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blood_Curse (and chain)
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Feast_of_Corruption
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Life_Siphon *
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dark_Pact
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spinal_Shivers
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Epidemic ^
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Corrupt_Boon ^
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Flamestrike
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Arc_Lightning *
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Impale_%28elementalist_skill%29
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Arcane_Blast

*: Will continue hitting if the target stealths after the cast has started
^: Will still put conditions on the Necromancer using it.

I only looked at two professions, but stealth completely negates all of these skills (the two Corruptions have a special note). That is a very significant amount of defense. If you’d like, I can continue with the other 6.

I also didn’t list signets due to their passive effects, but Signet of Vampirism is also negated by stealth (not that anyone uses it anyhow because of how bad it is).

Fair enough, I haven’t gotten around to necro too much so I was unaware of those skills. But the point still stands that calling stealth a better damage negation mechanic than an invulnerability is still an incredibly stupid argument. You can adjust your strategy to damage stealthed targets. You cannot do anything but wait when someone has an invulnerability that cannot be interrupted.

Rednik.3809:

Black Box.9312:

stealth is not a damage avoidance mechanic at all; it’s simply a deception.

Wrong. You completely avoid all AI damage (pets, turrets, clones, NPC) and damage/harmful effects from skills with target requirements.

The former is an issue with AI being poorly designed, and the latter technically isn’t true because the only skills that REQUIRE a target are mesmer clone/phantasm skills. Now, you could somewhat argue that it makes it too difficult to hit with ‘targeted’ skills, but I’d suggest an entirely different solution such as making skills easier to aim manually.

The point still stands, however, that stealth does nothing to mitigate damage in any way. A thief in stealth will take the same damage as a thief that is not in stealth, which is in vast contrast to something like endure pain where you pop it and are suddenly immune to damage for 6 seconds.

Atherakhia.4086:

Black Box.9312:

Atherakhia.4086:

Thieves have stealth. In any given fight you’re in stealth for much more than the 3 seconds a Warrior has endure pain up.

People seem to have this silly misconception that stealth renders you invulnerable to attack. I’ve killed plenty of thieves while they were in stealth; it’s really not that hard and it’s not really comparable to an invulnerability of any duration.

No one claimed they were invulnerable… only that stealth is the strongest mechanic in the game when it comes to avoiding damage.

No, it’s not. It’s not at all.

If you hit a thief with an aoe attack that deals X damage while the thief is not stealthed, and then you hit the thief with the same attack while it IS stealthed, you will still do X damage. Stealth does nothing to avoid damage.

If you were trying to argue for thief’s many built-in evades, then maybe you’d have a point. But stealth is not a damage avoidance mechanic at all; it’s simply a deception.

Atherakhia.4086:

Thieves have stealth. In any given fight you’re in stealth for much more than the 3 seconds a Warrior has endure pain up.

People seem to have this silly misconception that stealth renders you invulnerable to attack. I’ve killed plenty of thieves while they were in stealth; it’s really not that hard and it’s not really comparable to an invulnerability of any duration.

Nikaido.3457:

I just started joining play as you want groups and use a troll guardian build with staff and mace/shield. Knockbacks be funny.

The best way to prevent people from thinking you’re an kitten is to actually act like an kitten.

I am learning all sorts of new things today.

There’s only one passive effect with signet of the ether, and removing it would make it not a signet at all. It’s supposed to be meant for (semi)passive sustain, based on how well you are able to keep illusions up and active.

BurrTheKing.8571:

Black Box.9312:

Samhayn.2385:

BurrTheKing.8571:

I’m getting tired of this pointless circle-jerk.

Some counters, going with Hambow as it’s the most common, some of these examples can be beaten by other Warrior builds but those would in term lose to builds Hambow may not etc.:

1. PU Mesmer. Having all your AIs scattered about makes them not be taken out by Combustive Shot. With all of the stun breaks, teleports, and blurred frenzy you should never be hit by a full Hammer combo.

2. Melee Ranger. The build I’ve found that works best was Axe/Dagger+Sword/Torch with 0/0/30/30/10. I lost to this a few times and tried it out for myself and even with my terrible mastery of the playstyle (I find it odd to let my skills do most of the moving for me and end up canceling skills by accident) I could beat most meta Warrior builds. It has insane regen, but also tons of protection. In fact the person I got this build off of beat pretty much every 1v1 I saw them get into. Undead runes with Rabid gear makes them capable of large condi spikes and most importantly they almost always have poison applied. Add it Rampage as One and for 20 seconds the Warrior can do very little damage to you and you can force them to use most of their long CD condition skills while it’s up.

3. Standard Condi Necro with Golem. The one big mistake I always see Necros make is that they use all their best skills at the start and while Berseker Stance is up. You have to putt on just enough condis to force the stance, kite while it’s active, then wait until they use their burst and pile everything on. If you see them go for another burst to cleanse use the Goelm’s charge to either force them to use their Stability (Hambow only brings generally, contrary to popular belief) and if you can corrupt it while laying down the Fear you’re a shoe-in. Now, if they have say Signet of Stamina they may win,but that means they went full on into countering you and it makes them weaker to the other 2 builds mentioned.

4. Damage Guardian. I don’t know a ton about this build but I do know that with all of their blind, high damage, and access to invulnerability that they have a strong chance of beating the Warrior, especially if you get the upper hand early. Same thing as Necro, don’t waste your blinds when Zerker Stance is up and use your blocks that will last you for most of the duration and then blind the big telegraphed Hammer attacks and it’s cash money.

5. Blind Thieves. Similar to Guardian, it’s all about saving your blinds for the big telegraphed attacks and suddenly their DPS is kitten poor. Especially potent is using the steal skill in a blind field, it’s probably the most annoying thing ever to a Warrior.

I’m sure there’s a few more I’ve forgotten but I feel that 5 makes my point, play defensive when Zerker Stance is up, then negate all of the Hammer’s big attacks. Also of note, Pin Down actually does have a different animation, there’s circles around the arrow as it flies. Now this is harder to see coming in CQC but don’t you worry because that’s getting nearly a second charge time soon so at that point Warrior will be the undisputed king of obvious and highly telegraphed attacks.

My biggest gripe with this forum is that I hardly ever hear anyone seriously trying to counter the current meta. Most just instantly throw their hands up in the air when something beats their current build and demand it gets nerfed without even attempting to find a solution. It’s getting really annoying because even in real life everyone wants the solution handed to them on a silver platter rather than trying to fix things yourself.

I like how you put necro and kite in there together during the part of the fight that nothing can slow you down. I mean its easy right?

I found it funny that he referenced guardian’s ‘access to invulnerability’. Because 2 seconds from an elite with a 90 second cooldown is totally superior to anything warrior has.

It’s fun how if you use it vs a Earthshaker and follow up with your damage you’ve all but won the fight. I never said they had a lot of invul, but it’s a factor as is all the blinds, aegis, and blocks from weapon skills. As for Necro, Spectral Walk is a wonderful skill for the job.

The only viable DPS build guardian currently has is burst meditation, which will hardly ensure a victory against someone with a free damage immunity skill like endure pain. That aside though, a good guardian can beat a warrior, but I’ll be kitten ed if a good guardian can catch one.

Chicago Jack.5647:

I wonder how many people here die to Riki…

I lol’d.

Harper.4173:

Kyon.9735:

No, it’s not because I don’t like it but rather don’t you find it true that warriors are getting a lot just for putting in a few trait points? I guess your hostility means I hit a spot. And what’s more, this kind of argument will be more fruitful than those “L2P issues” excuses which will get you nowhere. The reasoning was thoroughly explained, you need to read it again.

I have no problems with warriors having both warriors sprint and fast hands or having all 3 of Dogged March, Adrenal Health, and Cleansing Ire as long as they fairly invest for it.

But seriously that kind of attitude will get you nowhere. You’re putting words into my mouth and your sarcasm failed miserably.

See – you’re assuming. It’s not that you hit a spot – the problem is that you missed it by so much it actually hurts.
Warrior’s sprint and fast hands weren’t an issue since the game was launched but lately ANYTHING about the warrior has been suggested to be godawful OP and terribly strong.
Because the overall flavor of the forums this month has been that warriors are the punching bag of all players that are more or less informed but mostly just angry.
I’ve seen objective and fair arguments made. I’ve seen threads that just went " nerf warrior because i’m mad ". I’ve pretty much read it all.

No – i don’t believe you’re right – you’re saying that they should invest " fairly" but exactly what is and what is not a fair investment isn’t really up to you.

Here’s a thought – warriors had sprint and fast hands before other changes were made and nobody complained about that particular trait investment.

Overall the whole " nerf warrior " phenomenon is happening because too many bads are dying at the hands of a high prevalence profession. And they’re clogging the forums with negative QQ about how the big bad warriors clobbered them instead of maybe considering what’s wrong with their own particular classes if they feel so underpowered.

A 10/10 warrior player will have a VERY hard time and most likely lose to a 10/10 player of other classes.

Those things weren’t an issue before because they alone aren’t an issue, even now. It’s the combination of those that makes it incredibly difficult to kill a warrior that doesn’t want to be killed that’s a problem.

And no, I don’t die to warriors often. I just get really irritated when they can just facetank my skills and then run away as soon as I start to gain an advantage. I don’t like when I successfully land cripples and immobilizes only to have it do nothing but give the warrior more regen, which in turn makes it even more difficult to kill while they are running.

Samhayn.2385:

BurrTheKing.8571:

I’m getting tired of this pointless circle-jerk.

Some counters, going with Hambow as it’s the most common, some of these examples can be beaten by other Warrior builds but those would in term lose to builds Hambow may not etc.:

1. PU Mesmer. Having all your AIs scattered about makes them not be taken out by Combustive Shot. With all of the stun breaks, teleports, and blurred frenzy you should never be hit by a full Hammer combo.

2. Melee Ranger. The build I’ve found that works best was Axe/Dagger+Sword/Torch with 0/0/30/30/10. I lost to this a few times and tried it out for myself and even with my terrible mastery of the playstyle (I find it odd to let my skills do most of the moving for me and end up canceling skills by accident) I could beat most meta Warrior builds. It has insane regen, but also tons of protection. In fact the person I got this build off of beat pretty much every 1v1 I saw them get into. Undead runes with Rabid gear makes them capable of large condi spikes and most importantly they almost always have poison applied. Add it Rampage as One and for 20 seconds the Warrior can do very little damage to you and you can force them to use most of their long CD condition skills while it’s up.

3. Standard Condi Necro with Golem. The one big mistake I always see Necros make is that they use all their best skills at the start and while Berseker Stance is up. You have to putt on just enough condis to force the stance, kite while it’s active, then wait until they use their burst and pile everything on. If you see them go for another burst to cleanse use the Goelm’s charge to either force them to use their Stability (Hambow only brings generally, contrary to popular belief) and if you can corrupt it while laying down the Fear you’re a shoe-in. Now, if they have say Signet of Stamina they may win,but that means they went full on into countering you and it makes them weaker to the other 2 builds mentioned.

4. Damage Guardian. I don’t know a ton about this build but I do know that with all of their blind, high damage, and access to invulnerability that they have a strong chance of beating the Warrior, especially if you get the upper hand early. Same thing as Necro, don’t waste your blinds when Zerker Stance is up and use your blocks that will last you for most of the duration and then blind the big telegraphed Hammer attacks and it’s cash money.

5. Blind Thieves. Similar to Guardian, it’s all about saving your blinds for the big telegraphed attacks and suddenly their DPS is kitten poor. Especially potent is using the steal skill in a blind field, it’s probably the most annoying thing ever to a Warrior.

I’m sure there’s a few more I’ve forgotten but I feel that 5 makes my point, play defensive when Zerker Stance is up, then negate all of the Hammer’s big attacks. Also of note, Pin Down actually does have a different animation, there’s circles around the arrow as it flies. Now this is harder to see coming in CQC but don’t you worry because that’s getting nearly a second charge time soon so at that point Warrior will be the undisputed king of obvious and highly telegraphed attacks.

My biggest gripe with this forum is that I hardly ever hear anyone seriously trying to counter the current meta. Most just instantly throw their hands up in the air when something beats their current build and demand it gets nerfed without even attempting to find a solution. It’s getting really annoying because even in real life everyone wants the solution handed to them on a silver platter rather than trying to fix things yourself.

I like how you put necro and kite in there together during the part of the fight that nothing can slow you down. I mean its easy right?

I found it funny that he referenced guardian’s ‘access to invulnerability’. Because 2 seconds from an elite with a 90 second cooldown is totally superior to anything warrior has.

Harper.4173:

Also – regarding warrior’s weakness – do people really not see the issue with lack of specialization efficiency?

Again, that is completely irrelevant. The issue is NOT that warriors are better at specializing, but that they are better off because they can have enough of everything without being REQUIRED to specialize.

teg.1340:

meikodesign.6471:

teg.1340:

Engaging while stealthed also is high risk, because you eat full damage from cleaves and AOE while stealthed.

Still less risky than engaging while not stealthed…

Other professions have plenty of tools available to compensate risk: High HP, high armor, blocks, invulns, aegis, protection, regen, weapon skill heals, leaps, pets/illusions, aoe area denial, …

Thieves got non of those, but stealth. Deal with it!

Acrobatics thieves would like to have a word with you…

Wintel.4873:

D/D is getting multiple buffs here but sadly I seriously hate D/D, especially in SPvP. Any ranged build can basically troll you by sitting out of reach and taking pot-shots and there is nothing you can do about it.
You’re not a thief so you can’t just stealth/leap to them, you’re not a mesmer so you can’t send waves of clones + stealth or range them back…you’re just an Ele with 40sec Lightning Flash (yay for cantrips) and 40 sec RTL.

I feel after the Ele changes we’re going to see people bottlenecked into Water+Arcana + Cantrip builds even more, but I guess as far as ANet is concerned it’s progress.

If you take Resto Signet you sacrifice condi cleanse, so any Resto Signet build that DOESN’T dip at least 20-30 points into Water is going to get eaten alive by condis. Ether Renewal is just far too necessary given how fast Ele health goes up and down, constantly teetering on the edge of death.

Between lightning flash (32 sec cd on a cantrip build), RTL (20 sec cd when you hit someone, which should be the goal when fighting a ranged enemy), magnetic leap, and even burning speed, d/d ele has enough gap closers to make things work IMO. The only scenario I can think of when you wouldn’t be utilizing these tools would be if you were trying to bunker a point, but the fact is that d/d ele simply doesn’t fit a bunker role anymore. That’s fine though, because they’re able to make up for it in other ways, and the upcoming patch will help make them more viable.

rpfohr.7048:

2) Not every warrior takes everything!!
For some reason you all think warriors have access to everything in 1 build.
Warriors have to spec for kitten just like everybody else, I should know, I have a bunch of 80’s. look at what weapons he is using and you will improve your play greatly.

Yes, they do have access to everything, and no, they don’t have to spec beyond 20 points in a single traitline. That is the current problem we are facing, and that is why warrior as a profession needs to be looked at. I don’t care if a warrior has high regen, or if they have lots of mobility, or if they have strong damage, or if they have excellent condition removal, or if they have good damage and CC mitigation. I DO care if they have all of that simultaneously, because no other class can do that to nearly the extent that warrior can.